Indiecast - It's Time For The 2022 Indiecasties

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

It's that time of the year again: December is here and publications (including Uproxx) have begun rolling out their picks for the best albums of the year. That means it's also time for another annual installment of the Indiecasties, an episode of Indiecast where hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen honor their favorite (and most overrated) albums of the year. This year's categories are: Most annoying Music Writer Twitter story (26:00), “Why Isn’t This On Your List” Award: Consensus Album That is Truly Overrated (35:11), The “Hey, I Actually Like The Album!” Award For Artist You Came To Like This Year (42:45), Biggest Disappointment (47:47), and Most 2022 Album of 2022 (55:57).To kick off the episode, Indiecast discusses the most talked-about event in music this week: Spotify Wrapped (:25). While Apple Music users feel particularly excluded, the ethics of Spotify also come into question. It's no secret that Spotify rips off artists but does scolding Spotify users help the cause in the long run?New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 117 here or below and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix Tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, it's part one of our annual IndyCasties award ceremony. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I wonder if he posted his Spotify rap this year? Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? No Spotify rap. We are just about the Rhapsody Recap or something. I don't know. Like before this episode, I had to try to, I did a little bit of research on like the shuttered audio streaming services that came before us. And like, most of them were just like NAPS. It was like ways like, you know, kind of legitimized Napster or something like that, like audio galaxy or things like that. Yeah.

But Rhapsody, that's the one right there. You know, I remember back, you know, back when I worked in an office with like some people who were, you know, about the age of. 50 or whatever. We had this like one person who would still use, I think Rhapsody. That was, I think that was like the one that was associated with Napster. I love it. Yeah, fascinating that one didn't stand the test of time. Yeah, I wonder, you know, if at some point there's going to be nostalgia for shuttered streaming platforms in the same way that we inevitably go back to physical formats of the past. You know, the vinyl revival. You got cassettes.

You got the CD revival. In 2028, is there going to be a younger generation repping for Rhapsody? Like, this is back when people really cared about music. This is the right way to listen to music. It was on Rhapsody while you're reading about your favorite band on MySpace. Yeah, I think there's, you know, some people will say that there are certain albums that are best suited to the format. Like some albums just sound better on vinyl. Some albums are just really suited to CD.

And maybe that's the case with like certain streaming as well. Like I know that, you know, muse B-sides, you can't hear them anywhere else but on like, you know, Napster or what have you. Like that there's just no, there's just no separating the medium from the message. I want to hear the bluegrass cover of gin and juice that was mistakenly attributed to fish. I got to hear that on MP3 from Napster. I brought up the Spotify rap thing because this is the time of year. It reminds me of how, like, when Bill O'Reilly had his TV show, and every year after Thanksgiving, you'd start seeing the War on Christmas stories. It was always about the War on Christmas.

You don't really hear about War on Christmas anymore, but there was a time where you just hear about the War on Christmas. And I feel like lately in the last few years, the war on Christmas story in music, social media is about Spotify wrapped. Because you get people out here posted in their Spotify wrapped, which if you don't know what that is, every year if you're a subscriber to Spotify, they send you this summary of what you listen to this year. And it's actually very cleverly packaged. It looks like someone designed a website to do a year-end. recap of just your personal music taste. So if I could pitchfork did their favorite albums of the year, but it was just about you. Like that's what the Spotify rap looks like.

And, you know, people get this email to them, and it's very fun, and they like to post it. They like to say, oh, these were my top five artists of the year. These are the genres I listen to the most. And it seems harmless, except this is where the war on Christmas comes in. you have people pointing out correctly that Spotify is bad for artists. Big news. Big if true. And that posting your Spotify wrapped is in essence giving this platform that doesn't need it free publicity.

So you got on one hand the pro Spotify wrapped people who I think are just, again, I don't think they're even thinking about Spotify. They're thinking about themselves, their own music taste. They think it's kind of a fun thing. And then you get the anti-Spotify Rap people. So I wanted to ask you, Ian, what are the ethics of posting a Spotify wrapped? Do you have a stance on this at all? Well, you know, I think if this hadn't occurred in 2021, 2021, was the year where I pretty much fully pivoted to Apple Music for the fact that, like,

the sound quality of the streaming is higher and it allows you to consolidate your downloads and streaming. if you've downloaded as many, you know, like Lil Wayne and like clips, mixtapes from like datpiff.com and you want to listen to them at the gym, you know, it has to be Apple music. That being said, every time I see, you know, Spotify wrapped compared to Apple's, what's it even, Apple replay, that's what it's called. It just shows that. Which no one cares about. No one's posting their Apple replay. Yeah, and every other capacity, like Apple Music lacks so badly behind Spotify because this is,

completely useless as a social tool. And, you know, I think with like Spotify wrapped, it's, you know, in some ways it's an engagement tool. Like, I get it in the sense that, you know, if you're posting Spotify rap, that shows that that you're complicit in the ripping off of artists. Or, you know, in the alternative, it just might be, hey, these are the bands I liked. You know, it's easier. It's more fun.

It's more colorful than just posting this dull ass, like, here are my top 10 albums. list. And yeah, I mean, when I was at work yesterday, you know, most of the people who were there who I would say are very much not as online as myself, they just love talking about it. And, you know, like the funniest part is that most of the people there was like, yeah, my top artists were like Taylor Swift. One person was Weezer. Like, you know, we have these jokes. It's like, oh, yeah. So like, I think Alex G must have tipped the scales because I see this guy in like every single Spotify. every single Spotify wrath.

It's just like not that deep. And I don't think most people think about the ethics, but it's like, you know, like why, like why wrapped? Like as opposed to like all year, you know, saying that like Spotify is, you know, evil and like bankrupting guards. But we'll get to that in a second. I mean, as far as like you have to be, I think, just kind of real deep into, you know,

the ethical quagmire of like indie music in 2020. to think that posting Spotify rap is itself like a public, like whatever the opposite of a public is. Yeah. I just want to say quick that I love to imagine someday like the people you work with listening to this podcast and realizing how much fodder we get from the conversations because to me it would be like that scene in the Truman show where Jim Carrey realizes that he's in a TV show.

It's like, I live inside. of a music podcast in reality. I mean, you want to know the truth. Someone brought, one of my friends I actually brought it up in like a team meeting and like no one gave it. Like people, people, they thought she was probably kidding. Like, oh, this guy has a podcast. Oh, that's funny.

Hey, guys, do you know that Ian co-hosts the leading indie rock podcast in the world? Do you realize that? The only one, not just the leading one. That's true. And it was just crickets. just don't appreciate it at all. I like your point about Apple Music because I actually have the same situation where I use that a lot more at this point because of the hard drive integration. Although for me, it's not like the Little Wayne mixtapes.

It's Grateful Dead Bootlegs and Bob Doan bootlegs and stuff like that. But yeah, it's like the way that I can listen to all this music I have downloaded along with stuff I need to string. Basically, I only use Spotify at this point for work. So if I'm researching something, I'll use it. Or if I'm writing and I just need music in the background to help me zone out so I can concentrate on what I'm doing. That's what I use it for. So I would never post my Spotify rap. Setting aside the ethical quandary of it, I just don't want people to see how much Chicago I listen to over the course of a year.

I listen to a lot of soft rock when I'm writing because it's easy. It's comforting to me, and it's also easy to not pay too close of attention when I'm writing. So it's like Chicago's hard for me to say I'm sorry is probably my most stream song of the year. I don't really want people to see that in my Spotify wrapped. But I, you know, I'm with you. You know, the thing is, is that I generally agree with the concept that like you don't want to give Spotify. free publicity because they don't need it. But I also feel like this is basically a fun,

innocuous thing that in and of itself is not taking money out of artist's pockets. I mean, this is a much bigger issue than just the Spotify rap thing. I just find it, this is like a tiresome holiday tradition at this point. The war over Spotify wrapped. It is the war on Christmas of, music Twitter. It's funny because when we get to the Indycasties here, when we're going to get to them in a minute,

I know everyone's excited for the Indycastes. One of our categories, of course, is most annoying music Twitter narrative. And this was like a late comer this year, the Spotify rap thing. We'll see if that won the award. I have a feeling it's going to be in the mix, but we'll see if it won.

But before we get to the Indycastes, let's get to our Mailbag segment. And thank you all again for writing in. It's always great to hear from our listeners. Do you want to read this letter, Ian? Yeah, boy, we are dipping into Santa's Indicast Santa Mailbag right here. This is a real fun one. Like we love this one so much that we have to focus on it, even though it's not actually a question.

So, hey, Stephen Ian, no question this week. But I feel like you should be made aware. Always a great way to start. I feel like you should be made aware of this event in London. Winston disgraced Mumford banjo player, no last name. And Ariel Pink. Winston Marshall. Winston Marshall.

All right. Winston Disgraced Mumford banjo player. Mungo Banford player. And Ariel Pink are having a conversation about freedom of expression in the music industry. Both freedom and expression are capitalized. Kyle from London links to this. And should we like, I mean, I feel like we should at least in the show notes somehow link to this because you really got to see it. Anyway, it's just down the road from Kyle and he's super tempted to attend out of curiosity, but he's worried he might be put on some kind of list in doing so.

How do we even begin to process this information? So by the way, this event is on December 6th, which is the Tuesday after this episode post. and you can live stream it looks like. So those of us around the world can enjoy this. You know, it really is a shame. You know, most of the time I'm glad that we don't have a video component to the show because we record in the morning and we're both pretty haggard, I think, at this hour. But I do wish that we could show this photo that they have with the event here in real time.

We'll have to, like you said, put it in the show notes so people can look it up themselves. But basically you have Winston Marshall on the left, and he's striking a very thoughtful pose. It looks like he's like in the middle of literally stroking his chin in this photo. And then you have Ariel Pink on the right. Just look in extremely aerial pink. Yeah. Just straight out of central casting of aerial pink photos. and according to the listing here it says

Indy legend Ariel Pink By the way, like the right wing They never became a bigger fan of Ariel Pink Than after January 6th Like he becomes like an indie icon all of a sudden Yeah I'm the right Yeah mature themes like underrated out

Like all Fox News number one album of 2012 I'm surprised they didn't do like a 10 year anniversary on it But also, like, the fact that there's, you know, this website, like, unheard, it's like un and capitalized age, like, you know, to separate yourself from the herd, like, think of, like, minor steps out-a-step album cover. You know, they say it's like, hey, man, we're not left-wing, we're not right-wing, we're just asking questions. And lo and behold, like, there's discussion about, like, freedom of expression in music is

Ariel Pink and the guy from fucking Mumford and Sons who had, like, not the guy who got, like, kicked out of a strip club. I'm pretty sure that's not the same guy. No, the guy who got kicked out of the band for being a little too alt-right for this kind of old-timey retro band. Well, okay, so the listing says, Indy legend

Ariel Pink became a pariah from the music business after he attended the January 6 rallies in support of title That's true. That's a sentence still makes me laugh. We ask him if there's a free speech problem in the arts in conversation with Winston Marshall who left the band Mumford and Sons after a media

storm of his own. So he, I don't know if he was fired. I think he left. I don't know. It might have been like, did he jump or was he pushed? Right.

Type situation. You know, I feel a little bad for the banjo player here because if memory serves, the furor over him, and I'm putting furor in quote marks,

was that he recommended a book by Andy No. who's this well-known journalist on the right. He reports a lot on Antifa issues. And I don't want to get into the Andy. No stuff, but he's a controversial figure. Online as a journalist, often associated with like alt-right type stuff. And look, that's a dumb thing for the banjo player to be doing.

But it's like, why was he recommending books in the first place? You're the banjo player in Mumford and Sons. Just be the banjo player. I don't understand, you know, because we talk about freedom of expression, but it's like people are expressing themselves too much these days. And I include myself in this. I'm posting all the time.

I'm saying stuff I probably don't need to say. I don't need to share all these opinions that I'm sharing. I'm not being paid to be posting. I'm just doing it compulsively. And sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, as we all do. It's like, why are you, like, are you Oprah's book club? Like, why are you doing this? It just seemed like such an unforced error.

You had 20 years ahead of you of staying in nice hotels, having a good, solid salary, probably the highest paid banjo player in the world. Steve, I say maybe Steve Martin gets more. Oh, right, okay. You're right. You're right. Okay. that's true but you know

Steve Martin isn't exclusively a banjo player he has other things going on Winston Marshall to my knowledge is not also a stand-up comedian an actor and writer alt-right gadfly that's what he is so I I don't know I

so I guess I just feel like he got caught up in this posting hysteria that has swept the world the other thing about him too is that I am confident in declaring that like the average Mumford and Sons fan has no idea this thing ever happened

and has no idea who Andy No is and this thing could have just like drifted away if he decided not to make himself a martyr you know because because Mumford and Sons I think they had a photo taken with Jordan Pearson before and like that just kind of went away because most of the fans most people who care about that band don't care about that

and they just pretended like it did happened and people forgot about it. My sense of this Winston Marshall guy is that he's turned himself into a martyr over recommending this stupid book. It's like just be a well-paid banjo player. Yeah. I don't understand it. You got caught in posting hysteria that has gripped the world.

I mean, I just got to know what sort of political tracks like the auxiliary percussionist and glass animals will recommend, you know? It's like, I like, that's what, you know, we're tired of talking to the lead singer. We just got to talk like, hey, let's give like the basis a little bit of action in this interview and just see if they've got these takes that they've had to repress for so many times. But, you know, I think this, I really wish you could see the photo because like, as you mentioned, the banjo player, he's like leaned in in a way where it's like, oh, this guy has had this conversation many, many, many times. You know, it could be taken from any one of the roundtables. I'm sure he's done on this. And then you have like Ariel Pink.

Like there's no, like I have very little doubt this picture was not taken within the past 10 years. He just looks like, oh, let's get Ariel Pink in there. And, you know, I see that maybe, I don't know if sympathy is the right word. Maybe sympathy because sympathy entails like pity. Like with Ariel Pink, it's like Winston Marshall, I guess, Winston Banjo. We're going to call him Winston Banjo to save myself some time in brain cells. You know, he's made himself. this sort of all right figurehead whereas Ariel Pink.

Now, mind you, like, I'm not saying he's, like, completely innocent. Like, being in Washington, D.C. for January 6th took a lot of fucking effort. There are so many times where you're like, this guy from L.A. can be like, yeah, I think I'm going to call this off. It's, like, really fucking cold in D.C. at that time. I know. You could have watched it on television. You could, and said to your friends, oh, yeah, I think Donnie is on the right on this, you know, he's in the right. You could have just done that. No one would have been the wiser. But yeah, you're

getting on a plane. You're booking a hotel. You're buying a warm jacket. You're, you know, you and John Nowse are like doing whatever it is you do. But he's just been this guy who's best looked. I mean, I'm pretty sure that he's, you know, mentally unwell in some circumstance. Like, I mean, I think that's kind of been the running theme throughout his entire career. But, you know, like he gets put on like Fox News and like looks just. just completely shell-shocked. He's the subject of this really weird tablet profile, which is otherwise like kind of a Jewish culture magazine.

And now this, it's like, look, I guess if you got, like, you got to do something with your time. You know, you might as well, I guess, like, lean into it in a way. But, I mean, a part of me, like a small, small, small part of me wants to just, like, see what this is like. But like, in reality, this is probably just like the saddest fucking thing. And like anytime, you know, Winston, like, I'm sure like Winston has his crowd-pleasing lines that people will like clap their hands to, you know, anytime they mention

Andy No or Jordan Peterson or, hey, I'm just asking questions, guys, you know, round of applause for 10 minutes. I mean, it's, it's, I mean, the thing is, the thing with the thing with the banjo player, and this is my theory, is that he's insecure about being a banjo. player and he's like I need to be seen as an intellectual I need to be seen as more as just Winston banjo and he just overextended himself and he's doubled down on that and he's posing for photos where he's stroking his chin sitting next to Ariel Pink meanwhile he could have been on a private jet flying to Dubai to play a Mumford and Sons concert for like the World

Cup or something like that yeah yeah so or some prints like some private parties making a million dollars. He could have been doing that forever, but he decided being Winston Banjo wasn't enough for him, and he had to be an intellectual. And it's a trap that so many people fall into. Just appreciate your gig.

It's a good gig. You don't need to be recommending books. You don't need to be an intellectual. Play your banjo. Play your banjo. How can you not be happy playing a banjo? People hear banjo, they instantly get happy.

Marcus Mumford, if you're listening, man, I will totally learn banjo, play banjo, and offer no political opinions whatsoever. I will keep my mouth shut. I will play the banjo. I will keep myself in line. Because that just sounds like a good life to me. You're playing banjo all the time. Who needs more than that?

We should say to Kyle, though, our letter writer, you are our official freedom and music, London correspondent. So I think you need to go to this. and report back and let us know. It's unfortunate this is happening after the Indycastes, because I feel like this could have been a good Indycaste potential winner this event, but it's a little too late. But yeah, Kyle, we can't pay you.

This is a pro bono position, but if you could be our freedom and music correspondent in London and go to this event and report back to us, we're going to need to shoot some photos and some video as well. But we would love to do that so we can share that with our listeners. And we'll get that in before the end of the year. Should we get to the Indycasties? Let's get to the Indycastes.

I mean, I got hours worth of banjo material, but you know what? We got to save something for 2023. Yeah, that's true. So for those who don't know, you probably know, but the Indycastes, it's our annual award. And we spread it out over two episodes. We're going to do five categories today, five categories. week. This is us looking back on the year and giving out awards in various categories. And we're just trying to honor the best and also the worst of the year. How do you feel about 2022 in general?

Do you have any like overall comments about the past 12 months? I guess. I don't know. I think that doing this year endless and maybe like not being able to participate in Spotify wrapped as well. I think 2022 has been a year where. I mean, this has been an increasing thing where I just feel kind of, you know, disconnected from the overall narrative and kind of digging back deep into my own, you know, little sphere. When actually, like, Spotify is wrapped. Like, I listened to Spotify to listen to podcasts. And it turns out, like, I got way more into podcasts this year than music. It's like, my impression of this year is that it's like, I guess, a kind of.

of back to, I hate using the term, back to normal, but like I've been going to concerts all year. You know, the, like, all albums aren't necessarily, you know, based on the pandemic. And I mean, it was, it, no, at 2021 was a very significant year in many ways for me, but like, 2022 was just kind of a hold serve sort of year. I'm just very curious on how I'm going to look back on 2022 is like, oh, yeah, I guess that happened. Oh, turn. current style played a Taco Bell commercial. I guess that was cool. Yeah, so we're going to get to our favorite albums of the year.

It's going to be in a few weeks. We're going to do a recap of that. I think I'm mostly with you. I think this was like a good year for music. I've already made my top 15 list, and I feel really good about the 15 I pick. I don't think I did any reaches. I really like what I put on my list,

and there were also like a lot of records that I liked a lot that didn't make the list, but if I had a longer list, they would have made it. But yeah, you know, we'll get into this with the IndyCasties. You know, we didn't have like a great album cycle that was a train wreck this year. You know, we didn't have like a lot of objectionable, funny things like we did last year and in 2020. And I think it's like you're saying maybe we're stabilizing a little bit and people knew what they were doing a little bit more in 2022. So good for the music business, bad for.

us in the podcasting business. But let's get to our first category here. And by the way, we have not seen each other's winners. We're in the dark. So I don't know what you picked and you don't know what I picked for any of these categories. So it's going to be fun to talk about this. Let's get to our first category. Most annoying music writer Twitter story.

This is one of my favorite categories in the Indycast. We have this every year. There's usually a lot of good fodder for this. I had three things that were vying for the winner for me, one of which I'll say, because we've already talked about it, the Spotify rap thing was in the running for me. But there's two other things. I'm curious if they were also for you. What is your winner in this category?

So I'm demonstrating perhaps a newfound maturity in my outlook because I had a few candidates. And when we've talked about this stuff in past episodes, it has made my Twitter like really fucking unusable for like two days. So I'm like, I think we both know what the most annoying music writer's story is. And, you know, I don't want to even like mention it by name because, you know,

the thing about like most annoying music writer Twitter stories is that they are the product of, you know, to varying degrees, music writers who are annoying kind of by default. And, you know, most music writers have rabbit ears. So I don't want to, they have rabbit ears and I don't want to poke that bare. We're really mixing metaphors here. But for me, you know, the most annoying music writer Twitter stories are the ones that there are two commonalities in it. One is that it tries to be, I guess it tries to tell you what to do with your money and the second version is the ones that try to elevate music writing or like even participation in music Twitter as this higher calling like something that is way more important than it needs to be so you know my winner can I

is it cool if I reveal my winner yeah yeah yeah which by the way I know what you're alluding to before yeah I don't know if we should cryptically say what it is? Are we not going to... Okay, anyway, go ahead. So, I'm going to hand it to Spotify rap because

yeah, we've already kind of mentioned it, but like to me, this embodies everything that I find to be irritating about the music discourse because, like, yeah, Spotify kind of sucks. I mean, it sucks a lot.

In many ways, is both the experience and for the artist and also like i just don't know how we put this parachute back in the parachute holder um you know there's i i just don't like music always progresses forward i think that was kind of the case with like napster as well it's like we can't go backwards to just a sheer physical you know a sheer like just buying music physically and you know for everyone who doesn't benefit from spotify which are like like 99% there are people who have kind of figured out how to adapt to the new realities. You know, people who like are able to make a career off music, but just not in the general,

like, you know, make an album every two years sort of way. And I don't want to sound like Daniel Eck right here, but it's like, it just, a lot of like the anti-Spotify rap or Spotify sentiment just seems to be like kind of as the saying goes, like playing tennis. without a net, or just like kind of playing like ping pong against the wall. It's just a way for people to, I guess, just kind of be sanctimonious without any real call for action. Because, I mean, think about it. It's like, we're all in a recession.

Like, gas is $5 a gallon. And you're just say, like, hey, I know you're enjoying listening to all this music, but what you really should do is pay $18 for this album that you may or may not like for, you know, because that form was like kind of exploitative itself. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. It's tough when we're talking about the music business,

picking the ethical way to listen to music because it seems like there's pitfalls everywhere. And it's good to be aware of these things. But yeah, this is also the world that we live in. It's sort of like being an author and how you relate to Amazon and knowing all the weird. thing. Not even weird.

That's a very sort of defanged of all the evil things that Amazon does, but also knowing at the same time that it's like the primary way

that a lot of people buy books. So, you know, how do you engage with that if you're in this industry? It's a difficult thing and it can be oversimplified for sure.

For me, my winner here, and this is my original winner, not even talking about the thing that we're not going to talk about. It's just the conversation in general about Big Thief. That really disappointed me this year.

I have to say consistently. And of course, we had the broification of Big Thief that we talked about. That was, you see, I didn't nominate that one because to me that was more funny than it was annoying. Well, I just feel like Big Thief, to me, made a really great record that I think is kind of a landmark record. And I don't know if like the discourse rose to the occasion with this band because I feel like a lot of the conversation about them had nothing to do with their music. It was all about like either their promo photos or like them booking the show in Israel, which I don't want to get into debating whether that was a good idea. There's this weird ongoing thing like where the New York Times is like shadow banning big things. thief.

It was like a weird thing going on there? I don't know what's going on. Winston Banjo's probably got some things to say about that. Yeah, I guess so. I don't know. I just feel like that record came out. People were into it for about a week or two. And then it just seemed like the conversation around them got wonkier and wonkier as the

year goes on, which is fine. Look, again, like I understand. Like, I'm in the pro big thief camp. I understand there's people that find them irritating for whatever the reason may be. I just felt let down by that. I feel like they put out a record that deserved better than it got over the course of the year. So that's more of a personal thing. But yeah, I just feel like we didn't rise to the occasion.

That record deserved better over the course of the year. That band did. But they just got bogged down in all these kind of weird things that just didn't, It made them, it's like, this is a band I like, but it's like, I don't even want to talk about them now. You know, it just seems to attract, like, a weird vibe. And I don't really know why. Yeah, I think that, you know, I think it's doing well on year end list. Like, it's certainly not, like, I want to say, like, 2014, like, Benji, where it was like, that was, like, a record kind of similarly came out early in the year.

And then just a lot of really fucking unforced errors, like, made it a lot harder to ride for by the end of. the year. I think it's doing well on your end list, but yeah, it's, it's one of those situations, and I agree that it's, the broification thing is fucking hilarious, but like the other stuff is, you know, I guess that's like the third thing for annoying music Twitter stories, which is that people are kind of like laundering their aesthetic distaste for Big Thief through like other modes. It's like, just say the music sucks if you think it sucks. You know what I mean? And the thing that bothers me about the Big Thief discourse is that people were, reacting to the reviews that were written initially of the record.

And they treated Big Thief like they were this sort of cultural monolith that was overbearing. And they were just treated as like gods and people were going crazy. And it's like, do we have any perspective on how much they get versus any of the nation state pop stars that put out records this year? I mean, to me, you know, the coverage of like a Taylor Swift record or Beyonce record, it ought to put the praise for Big Thief in perspective. So, like, if that was why you were annoyed with them, I'm sorry, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to, like, what these huge, ginormous pop stars get. So I don't know.

But that's just me. I was one of the people that wrote a very glowing review. So maybe I have a... I obviously have a different perspective on that. I like Big Thief and I will continue to make fun of Buck Meeks hats. That's where I stand. All right. So our next category is called the Why Isn't This On Your List Award?

And this is for a consensus album that is truly overrated. So we're talking about records that have been well reviewed. They're showing up on Year End list. But for whatever reason, you and I are not on board. with the praise. What is your choice for this award, Ian? So this, I think this category, like, the fact that I feel like kind of nervous about it, I guess is a sign of maturity because, you know, if, like, if this were like 10 years ago

and I was more, you know, in tune with the narrative, like, I'd come in, like, my year-end list, like, resembled most of them, you know, most of the publication ones. I'd come in, like, guns blazing, talking about, like, you know, how every thing that the haters say about big thief, you know, that it's impossibly precious and that it feels like five hours long and it's boring is like actually true of florist, but like, you know, I can tell that that record's not for me. And I can admit that. But, you know, the thing that makes this category tough is that I, you know, why isn't this on your list? Like, no one's asking me why Taylor Swift's not on my list. So I have to kind of pick records that I think that like, like, in a way.

A couple of candidates that came to mind are Alex G and Always, which are albums from artists who are, you know, like Gen Z, millennial touchstones, both of whom made what were, you know, widely considered their best records of strong careers. And, you know, top tens and what I've seen so far. But to me, like, they're more, like, 25-ish. Like, they never, like, struck me as masterpieces, maybe just, like, culminations of, like, slow builds towards, you know, being. an A-lister. So, I mean, those are candidates for me, but this one's really hard for me to say, because I think this person's super talented, and I like this album, and I really look forward to everything they're going to do going forward. But as far as the biggest discrepancy between what I think of this record and the reviews is Barty's Strange Farm the Table.

I see. I had a feeling you were going to go here. Yeah. Wait, with your buildup, I had a feeling you were going to go in this direction. So let me just clarify what we really mean by overrated, because I feel like a big part of Live Forever, which I think is a great record. It's going to be seen as maybe like one of the definitive, you know, debuts of this decade, is kind of people arriving late to the Bartis strange phenomenon. Like a lot of the narrative was just about how he was overlooked for so long,

for any number of reasons. And I feel like a lot of the praise that was due to live forever kind of got transferred onto Farm the Table, which is a good record. But to me, it's, you know, it seems like kind of an antics or a room on fire in a way where I think there are, like, I think there are a couple of songs that don't quite hold up on repeated listens. And I think maybe the overrated part is that I, I, I think, I, I think there are a couple of songs that I, I expected kind of a masterpiece, and this is just a good record that does things that live forever did, but perhaps in a more muted way.

Like if I could use a, if I could be very own brand and think of it in a foxing kind of way, like I got dealer and I expected near my God, but maybe nearer my gods. Maybe the next Barty Strange album is like the third album, like where he really just explodes things and, you know, just makes the masterpiece. I know he has in him. But I think in some ways that this album, people were reviewing Bartis Strange, the person who's extremely talented and likable, and the record itself was perhaps not like as subject to critical discourse as maybe it could have been.

See, I see where you're coming from. And in a sense, I agree that I think he's on the way to making his magnumopus. However, I do like that record. a lot and I don't want to spoil my list but I'll say that that record was in the running for my list for sure and we'll see if it made it also I disagree about always although again I think I understand what you mean I will say that if you divorce it from the reviews that it got and you just listen to the record itself I think that the record totally justifies the love I

you know if it becomes a question of like whether people like it too much I mean I guess that's what we're being asked to do in this category. But I don't know. I love that record too. And that is also a contender for my year-end list. We'll see if it made it. I'm going to go with two bigger whales that I think need to be taken down here. The first one I'm going to say doesn't technically conform to the category because no one would ask me why this isn't on my list.

I've made it very clear. This album was never going to be on my year-end list. but I've seen it on a lot of year-end list and I think it's actually not only like not a great record I think it's a mediocre record and that's Harry's House by Harry Styles to me easily the most overrated major pop star

currently working for a variety of reasons but let's just say the most important reason is that he makes very boring music and this is a very boring record and I think if you compare it to the other big blockbuster pop records it doesn't hold a candle to the week weekend record, the Beyonce record, even like sort of a Lester Taylor Swift record.

Although I will say, I think Harry Stiles will come up again in the Indycastes. Next week, we're going to be talking about our MVP's of the year, and I think Harry Stiles needs to be in the running for MVP in terms of just giving us fodder to talk about. So, Harry,

you may get redemption from me later on in the Indycastes. The other album I have to say, and this is a record I like well enough, But it's being discussed as one of the best indie rock records of the year. And to me, it's empty calories. Does not engage me emotionally at all. It's a fine record.

But it's also a forgettable record in my estimation. And that is the self-titled debut by Wet Leg. This, I think, very overrated record. And again, I get why people like it. I found that a lot of middle-aged guys like this record. Oh, yeah, the broification of Wet Leg. Middle-aged guys love Wet Leg. leg, if you have a 48-year-old guy in your life, the legs indie rock, you can't get them to

shut up about wet leg. Love wet leg. And look, God love them. That's cool. I've just had a lot of middle-aged guys come up to me, unprompted and ask me what I think about wet leg, and I always have to be polite in those conversations. Again, I don't dislike them. I think that they're fine. I just think that that record, I put it on some clever songs on there. It's a fun vibe, but emotionally, I get nothing from it. So yeah, I just think that that record, which I've seen on every top 10 list, pretty much from major publications so far,

I feel like that's a little overrated. So those would be my two picks in that category. Like all award shows, like we're running late here, I think we're going to have to blow through our last three categories today. Let's get to our next category. This is the, hey, I actually like this album award for an artist you can.

came to like this year. So this is, we kind of went a little negative in our previous two categories. This is a positive one. What do you have in this category? Someone who put out an album and like, maybe you weren't a big fan of them before, but like you came around this year. So I think like all of my candidates come from like kind of the same wave of British post post-punk.

You know, for example, my number two album of the year, actually, Country New Road fucking hated that first album. And I actually listened, you know, I went back to it this year to think, oh, maybe the fact I love this new record will make me more, you know, more in line with the first one. Nope, still hate it. But the thing is, it annoyed me enough to intrigue me. So they're an example of that. I also think Jockstrap, a band that was, is affiliated with Black Country New Road, found that EP super annoying, love the album. And the one, and the one, that actually, like, I feel the most surprised by, even more so than those, is a record that came in my top 10 this year, which is gillob band, most normal, formerly known as girl band.

I, you know, based on their name, based on, like, the reviews, based on everything I've read about them. I just assumed they were like one of those kind of quasi-idels, Fontaine's DC, you know, talky, talking about the absurdity of masculinity in the modern world type band. and in actuality most normal is like a nasty fucking record. It reminds me a bit of hey what in that way, where the guitars are like really super noisy and process and there's no real intention to play it live.

But, you know, in a year where I just always want something I could play at the gym, it's always great to have a band like that come out and surprise me. Just completely came out of nowhere. It's like, wait a minute, this band is my shit. because I thought Black Country New Road could be, but this one really stood as like, oh, maybe like British rock post-punk is like where I need to be looking at these days.

So I have two choices for this category. The first one is a bit of a qualified choice because I liked this artist before 2022, but I never felt like he made a complete album. and this year he put out a record that is among my favorite albums of the year. I will say, as a spoiler for my list, since you're already leaking some of your rankings, I'll leak some of mine.

This is a top five record for me, and it's Dawn FM by the weekend, which for me is the most entertaining big tent pop record of probably the last five years. Really love this record a lot. I feel like in a way, this album is maybe suffering from like release too early in the year syndrome because it came out in January and you know we've had other big records that have come out since then and maybe people have forgotten how good this album is but I really think it is the record where the weekend

pulls it all together where it's not just about the singles it's about the whole record even the spoken word tracks on that record I think are really well done and entertaining and replayable So definitely one of the most entertaining albums of the year for me. The other one I have to say, and we recently talked about this band, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. This was a band that I tried for years to get into, and I always appreciated what they did, but they never really made a record that landed for me.

It was more about the idea of what they do, that they're so prolific and that they can dabble in different genres, and they play really adventurous live shows. But this year, I feel like, well, first of all, they put out five albums this year. Yeah, I was about to say, like be more specific. Yeah,

they put out five records this year, including three in one month. And I actually liked a lot of the records that they put out this year. Like three or four of them, I thought were really quite good. But the one that stands out for me is ice death, planets, lungs, mushrooms, and lava. That's all one album title.

It's the album I like the most this year, whose album title I can never remember in full. And, you know, I can say, Dragon New War Mountain I believe in you. I can say that, but this title is a little

too long for me. But I like this record a lot and I think the difference for me is that they really just embrace being a jam band this year. In this record, it's very jam bandy as opposed to their earlier records

that are more psych rock, more in that OC's like Ty Siegel Lane. Here they really embrace being like a Red Rock's headliner and being that kind of band. And I really like that. transition for them. So yeah, they are my winner in this category. Let's get to our next category.

This is biggest disappointment. And this category, I mean, we haven't open-ended. I don't know what you said in your category. I have two albums that I think qualify in this category for biggest disappointment of the year. What are, did you pick an album? Like, what did you put as the winner in this category? So, you know, a bit of cross-promotion, I recorded an episode of our endless scroll about biggest disappointments. And, you know, what I learned from that is disappointment comes in many shades. I mean, you know, you could throw in the many ways that arcade fires weed disappointed us, like both as a record and as a phenomenon like that has made them pretty much unlistenable to me. But I thought kind of bigger picture as far as no album itself disappointed me so much. as the winner, which I would say is a fifth wave emo as a whole.

Okay. So, and what I mean by that is now, look, I'm going to have 10 albums to put on the Up Rock's best emo albums list that I'm working on right now. But specifically from like a lot of the bands who excited me in 2021, 2021 and 2022, you know, maybe they're working on new music or what have you. but it seems like a lot of my favorite albums of this genre in 2022 or, you know, kind of stuff that follows more of like the 2013 or the 2018 mode. Like I love the Pool Kids record.

I love the Anxious record. I love the Ben Quod record. But none of them really like strike me as like, oh, this is like a new form of the genre in the same way that like Home Is Ware did or Glass Beach did. And so I feel like it was kind of a muted year. for the genre as a whole like there doesn't seem to be like any true breakouts but also

you have to take into account the fact that like I'm no longer as central to the narrative like I'm not writing about as much music I'm not having my pitches accepted as much so you know maybe this is all happening outside of my gaze but it just seemed like this was a year

of doubles and whatnot as opposed to towering home runs yeah I was going to say that the pool kids record is is one that I like quite a bit and it's probably the emo record I liked the most from 2022. And it didn't make my year-end list, but it was close. I considered it, but it would be, you know, if my list were like 25 albums, I think it would have made it,

but it didn't make the top 15. I have two albums here that I think qualify you. You mentioned the Arcade Fire record, and it is interesting because there was an arc this year where at least some people were arguing that that was a comeback record for them. And then, of course, events conspired to totally turn that around this year. But the first album that I want to mention is an album that I reviewed. I reviewed it negatively.

I got some blowback from the stands for that. I feel like it was generally well reviewed when it came out. And I think this artist had a good year overall. But it is interesting to me that I'm really not seeing this album come up in year-end list. or it doesn't seem like it's in the conversation at all. And maybe that's because it came out earlier in the year. But I also tend to think that maybe people have accepted that this is a weaker record by a very beloved indie artist. The record I refer to is Laurel Hell by Mitzky.

I mean, I just came out. I looked at my review. It says disappointment in the headline. So I was calling this back in I think February or so when this album came out. I just feel like this record is weaker than Be the Cowboy, and Be the Cowboy was weaker than Puberty too. And she's going in this direction that for me personally is not very satisfying, but on the other hand, who cares about me?

Because she did establish herself, I think, as a bona fide pop star this year, did very well on the road, opened for the aforementioned Harry Styles on a stadium tour in Europe. So she's doing great and good for her because I am a Mitzki fan. That's why I'm disappointed because I am a fan of her music

and this record I just thought was weak compared to the best of what she's done. So that to me immediately came to mind as a disappointing record. The other one I wanted to bring up and this is maybe more of a question mark but do we want to call the Kendrick Lamar album a disappointment? Or are we withholding judgment

with the belief that this is a dense, fascinating record that will reveal layers unforeseen to us now like in 10 years? Because in the moment it feels like a disappointment. But I have enough respect for him to believe that I will feel differently down the road. You know, I've gone back to this record after kind of the blast radius of its initial release,

and I'm still pretty disappointed in it. But like, I'm disappointed in the same way that I'm disappointed, but not disappointed by the 1975's record, which, by the way, would have been a definite A-list candidate for this category, had they not put on a really fucking awesome live show that I saw this past weekend. But I think that in a way, I'm, like, more satisfied with a record that kind of subdues the hype around each artist as opposed to, like, yet another masterpiece. Because now I think this makes, you know, Kendrick more interesting to discuss going forward. Because, you know, I mean, look, the music he made before this pretty unimpeachable in some ways, but also there was like some flaws to it that weren't quite as discussed. because, you know, he's like a Pulitzer Prize winner or whatever.

I think that this, a kind of what might be perceived as like a slip-up or like a step down makes him far more interesting to discuss going forward, which to me, I don't know, almost feels like more satisfying than yet another masterpiece that is roundly topping the year endless. Yeah, I get that argument too. And that's why I'm putting a question mark after biggest disappointment with him, because it is incredible to have a Kendrick Lamar record that really is not in the conversation for album of the year. It's number 32.

I've seen it as like 32 on some list. Yeah, I mean, that is a pretty remarkable development for an artist of that stature who I would say definitely before this record, and maybe even still, it was the most respected artist working today. I don't think there was any question that, you know, around the time of like,

to Pimp a butterfly, that he was the guy. And even with damn, you know, that continued that. So to have him fall back in a way, but do it with a record that is obviously ambitious and obviously has like a lot of material on it that isn't meant to be understood in the moment. You know, he definitely made a record that I think you have to sit with for a long time.

It's not like he just put out, some half-assed, you know, 35-minute album, you know, there is a lot there. And it is, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because of who he is. But, yeah, in the moment, it's just not a record that I am ever excited to listen to. It's kind of a slog, but I also feel like he's smarter and more brilliant than me. So I may need to catch up to him. So I have a lot of respect for him in that regard. Let's get to our last category of this first part of the Indycasties,

and that is most 2022 album of 2022. And the way I define this is this is the album or the artist that people are going to play in movies when they want to signify 2022. You know, what do we think that is going to be? It's not necessarily the best album. It's the album that kind of feels the most. of the moment. And what is your choice for this, Ian?

Well, I mean, when you describe the category as you did, it gets one of my candidates to mine, which is wet leg, I think wet leg, not just the sound of 2022, but also just the, I mean, they could have been in so many of these categories, like most annoying music writer's story. That could have qualified for that. why isn't this on your list award? There was a song or two when I'm like, hey, I actually kind of like this. And also, you know, perhaps biggest disappointment?

I don't know, because, you know, maybe it could have been like the 2020 version of like the France Ferdinand album or what have you. Or maybe that's really what it is. But as far as the most 22 album of 2022 in the sense that I'm going to remember this as like what it was like to experience music, you know, for the most part through the prism of music writer, Twitter. I'm going to go with a bit of an unconventional choice is the unreleased 100 Gex album.

Because this to me is like how it is just the greatest indicator of like how we can be online talking about music without really talking about music at all. I mean, this band had like pretty, a number of really significant in-depth profiles. And they just always seem to be a around despite the fact that there was like maybe one song that was like really not that great. You know, their influence alone probably makes them like worthy of discussion. But in a year where I just felt like kind of like a ghost from the, you know, greater music discussion. I think this is an album that just sort of embodies the discussion about music without music

aspect of 2022. it's just it is just it's not it's not even like dr dr dr drs like detox or like smile where it's this like long fabled uh you know tail of like you know mute perfectionists tweaking and retweaking everything it's just like oh you're like yeah let's let's talk about a hundred gecks i guess you know what i mean and always like the dial adjusting it's like are we supposed to take them seriously or not or what are we supposed to think of them so this is all discourse no music so to me this is 2022 at least for my experience so you mentioned already my winner in this category and that is wet leg i think that that is the most 2022 album of 2022

and again i just go back to if i'm imagining a movie made in 20 years about 22 and i'm thinking about young people and they're in a cafe and they're talking about Nathan Fielder in the rehearsal and they're talking about Elon Musk buying Twitter and they're talking about like the World Cup and I don't know I'm trying to think of other 2022 things here

this is the album that'll be playing in the background it'll be wet leg and maybe it's also because I feel like I don't know if this band has legs or I guess See what you did there That wasn't even on purpose

That wasn't even a deliberate pun there I am curious to see Like what the second or third record from that band sounds like Because they do seem like A bubblegum band In the sense that like It tastes great

For about 15 minutes And then it loses its flavor a little bit I could be completely wrong though This could be the next This could be one of the big bands of the 2020s. And I could be totally proven wrong. But at the moment, I feel like they are such a time capsule of this year. And I know that they had singles before this year. So it's not like they're just an exclusive 2022 phenomenon. But I think if I were a Spengali and I was designing a

band that I knew would get press and get lots of streams. I could not do better than wet leg. And I'm not saying that they've been invented or anything like that. I'm just saying that they check so many boxes for like what does well on the internet. And my hat's off to them because it's worked out great. I hope they have a big career. But yeah, to me, they are so definitive for this year that when they make the 2022 period, in 2042, they will be on the soundtrack.

So I think that about does it for part one of the Indycasties. But we have a lot more categories next week. So I'm looking forward to getting into it with you, Ian. Yeah, are we the biggest, like if there's like indie podcast cast or something like that, are we the most annoying music writer Twitter story? Absolutely. Absolutely. Are we the wet leg of 2022?

Yes. That's what I'm asking. No question. We are the most annoying disappointments in the indie cast, or the indie rock, in the indie cast sphere, but also the indie rock podcast sphere. Thank you all for listening to this episode. We'll be back with more news and reviews and indie casties next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box. Thanks.