Indiecast - Jack White + Father John Misty, Plus: Wet Leg And Q1 Favorites

Episode Date: April 8, 2022

The last we heard from Jack White, he seemed to be midst of the artistic equivalent of a mid-life crisis with his 2018 album Boarding House Reach. But with his new LP Fear Of The Dawn, White has adopted a sense of indifference, resulting in a surprisingly captivating effort. On the latest Indiecast episode, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen review White's new album (29:49) and share their thoughts on Father John Misty's latest LP, Chloë And The Next 20th Century (39:14).In other indie news this week, the Grammys once again proved their waning relevance by awarding Jon Batiste Album Of The Year (:26). Plus, Steven and Ian share their thoughts on Wet Leg's much-hyped self-titled debut album (7:13), which they both liked and disliked more than expected. They also cast their votes for artists who made their favorite Q1 albums (20:25), including Big Thief, Nilüfer Yanya, Black Country New Road, and The Weeknd.This week's Recommendation Corner (49:02) has Ian giving props to Brooklyn band Tree River. Steven gives a shout out to Austin-based band Good Looks, whose debut LP Bummer Year is out now.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 84 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On the show, we talk about the biggest mini news of the week. We review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by Jack White and Father John Misty. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, the one person who has listened to that John Patiste album, Ian Cohen, Ian, who are you? You know, I don't think that's actually true, right?

It can be true. That album doesn't exist. I don't think that album exists. Has anyone heard of that album? album before one album of the year? I know it exists. I totally know it exists because, you know, sometimes my wife watched the Colbert report. And so that's how I know who he is.

I think this is. Well, I know who he is, but like that album, I didn't know he made an album. I looked it up on, it wasn't on Metacritic, but it was on Album of the Year. It's been reviewed by four different publications, three of which I haven't heard of, and another is like a three and a half star review from Rolling Stone. So it definitely exists. But I know that both you and I have been told that we need to accept reality that the Grammys are awesome. And I think I'm like transitioning from anger to bargaining in the five steps, five stages of grief.

Because like I've cut like in the past few days, like I've almost come to realize that like, yeah, the Grammys are awesome. Not because like I love seeing Silk Sonic and Food Fighters, you know, split 90% of the world. the awards, but like, the Grammys will always find ways to just do the most Grammy shit possible. And that's like the explanation for every single thing, which makes absolutely no sense in an objective or subjective way. It's like, ah, Grammys are going to Grammy. And it's almost like just fascinating to watch. Yeah, you know, you referenced this, that the coverage of the Grammys this year

seemed by and large to be very positive. And I've noticed this trend that as the audience for the Grammys shrinks, the media recap somehow get nicer. It's this weird dichotomy that goes on where the show seems like less and less relevant. Yeah. But the media is treating it like it's better than ever. I mean, I think the thing that people who watch the Grammys, and neither one of us watched the Grammys, I think we should announce that. Yeah, I went and got pizza. But the people who did watch it, the thing that they commented on is that,

that there was an emphasis on live performances. I think Trevor Noah, the host, at the beginning, said, don't think of this as an award show. Think of it as a concert where we give out awards every now and then. And I agree that that makes for a better show. I mean, this is something the Grammys have done for a while. Like, when I was on the Grammy's beat 10 years ago, I think that's like the last time I really had to cover it,

like when I was at Grantland. They had a similar focus. It seemed like it was really about, performances. I remember they did this tribute. They called it a tribute to acoustic music. Like this was like peak Mumford, right? Yeah, it was Mumford. It was Avitt, the Avid brothers. Dylan was there. Moving ears maybe. I mean, this was like peak like Mason Jar, sort of wide brim hat era. Right, right. And I just love the idea of doing a tribute to

acoustic music. Like, why not, are you going to do, like, a tribute to microphones? Yeah. Or a tribute to, you know, bass strings? I mean, it's such a weird way to frame a musical performance. But John Battiste at the, in his Grammy acceptance speech, he thanked all the real musicians. Right. What's more real than an acoustic guitar, you know?

I suppose so, but it just made me think that is it really a good strategy in the long run for the Grammys to de-emphasize the awards? I mean, isn't that their thing? If it's just going to be a concert, I mean, how special, like, what makes the Grammy special then? I mean, have there not been other opportunities to see Olivia Rodrigo on television? I mean, I feel like, in a way, you just become another TV show, and you don't have that element that I think that people who watched award shows in the past, they'd like the idea of validating art. that they love or getting angry when art that they love doesn't get honored. I mean, that is the core appeal of an award show if you care about award shows.

So to say, oh, it doesn't really matter. We're just the concert. I just don't understand how that helps you in the long run. I think what this award season has proven, and this goes back to the Oscars this year, that you don't actually have to watch these shows anymore to participate in the conversation because anything interesting that happens is instantly online and you can just cherry pick like the one moment and you don't have to sit through like a three and a half hour show.

Everyone knows that now. So like I don't know how you reverse that. How do you make people forget that? It just seems like an irreversible course off the edge of a cliff. Or you could go in the complete opposite direction and have more of the awards and like completely de-emphasize live performance because, I mean, I don't know about you. For me, it's like, I guess the, the answer to the slap on the Grammys was Dream Theater winning best metal album in 2022.

Like, I want to see John Petrucci take that award and, you know, give a shout out to all the real, the real shredders out there and guitar centers and Sam Ashes across the globe. But, you know, that doesn't make, that doesn't bother me. I like tipping the cap to Dream Theater. Yeah, I want to see that, though. I totally want, like, I want that. I want that real, like, raw, uncut, like, what are the Grammy's thinking type awards? And that's one of them. Yeah, I agree with you.

I actually think they should have more awards. I think this is true for the Oscars, too. Yes. When you think about the great moments, it's awkward speeches. You know, at the Oscars, you have people in the technical categories who aren't used to speaking in public. So sometimes there's awkwardness there. Yeah, and at the Grammys, I would like to. see people actually care about the award.

I think it's good when people get mad that they lose. That's good for the Grammys. People should be debating. Even when people get mad, you know, that Beyonce is not winning of the year or Kendrick isn't winning, I mean, they should win. But like the fact that people care and are invested in it, I think that's good for the awards. I think it would be better if they actually gave awards to the artists who deserve them, but that's not what the Grammys have ever done.

Yeah, it is an industry trade award show. Like, it's the sort of thing that, like, John Wilson goes to, except instead of, like, home security, it's about, like, the music industry. So we got to move on here. We have a ton of stuff to talk about in this episode, by the way. I don't know how we're going to get it under 60. We'll see what we can do. We're going to have to fly here.

But we don't have this record in the meat of our episode, but we need to talk about it. Yeah, it's a substantial vegetable quasi. entree. Yes, it's the it's the breadsticks part of the meal. But sometimes the breadsticks are the best part. Of course, it's the new record by Wetleg. We talked about this record last week. We talked about

in terms of the discourse around this band. This is, of course, a duo from England. They are the most hyped young indie band of 2022. After a series of successful singles, they're now finally putting out their debut album.

And by the way, I need to shout out the listener who emailed us to point out that I referred to their breakthrough song as Chase Lounge. Yes, you did. Instead of Shay Long. Yeah. And I just really, that was a deliberate thing on my part. I was shouting out the entourage spin-off where Jimmy Chase starts a after-school hangout spot on an 80s teen sitcom.

You know, similar to the Peach Pit. That's what I was doing. But no, I thank you for calling me out on that. I apologize for my error. How do we feel about this record? Are you into this record? Are you buying to the hype? Or are you a reactionary to the hype?

You know, I got to be honest. Like, if it wasn't for indie, like, when I heard Chase Longer, or I'm going to be the one who pronounces things wrong. And some of the other singles, I thought to myself, you know what? like I get this like it kind of combines the talky post-punk absurdity of modern existence wave of bands with like the you know 90s alt rock epic clack back against fuck boys type music and you know if it wasn't for indie cast I'd be like I feel no obligation whatsoever to listen to this

just to you know comment on the narrative that said I listened to it a few times and I liked and disliked it more than I anticipated. Yeah, I think we talked last week about how this is like a throwback, 2004, like, peak Indigo's pop style hype act, you know, similar to like, say, The Killers or France Ferdinand's first album. And this is also like a 2004 Indigo's pop type album where there's like filler, there's like a few hits and like obvious filler. and I think people don't really know what to do with that kind of album these days.

Like I think there's just the assumption that everything has to be kind of an instant classic or it's trash. And there's not a lot of space for like, or it's just like kind of mediocre all the way throughout. But this, yeah, I think, well, I think people have kind of lent to instant classic just because it's like, it's so rare for a band of this ilk to get this big without, you know, getting big on like tick. or some other very newfangled form of like distribution. So, yeah, I mean, am I ever going to listen to it again? Voluntarily? Probably not. Will I ever hear it again, you know, just because?

Yeah, I'm definitely going to. But yeah, I mean, I can take it or leave it. Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat. I think it's a really fun record when it's on. And then when it's off, it instantly drifts out of my mind. There's not a Strong emotional undertow to this record To complement the witty and

I think kind of glib aspects of it You know where again If you're drinking beers Especially like in your early 20s You're drinking beers Yeah At a pre-party getting ready to go out Like this is a record you want to put out

It seems like that kind of record But beyond that I'm not getting like a ton of depth From this record But I do like the idea. And this actually made me like them more when I started thinking of them this way as like wet leg being the Stone Temple pilots of the talky UK way, but this is like the pop version of what dry cleaning does. Yeah. You're like they're taking that template and they're just doing it in a much

more accessible way that the average person is going to get into. And that's not a slight to wet leg. I think Stone Temple pilots are great. They're a great band. Um, But I think that is how I'm conceptualizing them in my mind. They're a more accessible version of this wave of bands that have come out. And they have some of the same strengths and weaknesses of those bands. The catchiness, I think, is obviously a strength here. But again, it feels like a little ephemeral to me. But who knows?

I have a feeling that this is going to be a record that when they make period pieces about the early 2020s, they will play songs off this record. Like if you want to avoid. Voke early 2020s indie culture, this wet leg record, I think, is going to be a go-to in that regard. In the same way, if you want to evoke the early 2000s, you play Take Me Out. Yeah, or like kids or, you know, yeah, like all of the, and we haven't even covered the dropouts like use of music.

But, you know, you mentioned Stone Temple Pilots. Like, I think we're already starting to see the candle boxes as well, you know, like sports team, English teacher. These are real bands, by the way, who are getting some. signed by major labels. You tweeted about this this morning that there's a new band called English teacher. Yeah, and guess what, man?

They got Angular guitar pop referee. I mean, is there any other kind? Yeah. We've got to get back to naming things after like cool, cool shit. Yeah, you can know a lot. I'm just glad someone took the heat off like terrible emo band names for a while, you know? I mean, come on. Can't we aspire to names like Motorhead?

With him busy? Yeah, it gets a fucking U-O-Ban. Um-louts in there, man. Yeah, get some umlots in there. Name yourself after something cool. Like, English teacher, I'm sorry, man. They might be an amazing band. We might be talking about English teacher in the year. Yard act might actually not be total shit, but we'll see. You know, but name yourself after like a snake or a hot rod car or something. I don't know. Just something cool. Let's get back to being cool. Uh, yeah. We should talk about, uh, the discourse that's been going on. I think this has, like, been a big thing that has gone, really for like a couple weeks.

now talking about the economics of being an indie musician. And we could have talked about this last week. That's when the band Wednesday, who we've talked about on the show, I'm a big fan of that band. They did a tweet thread talking about going to South by Southwest

and all the expenses that a band has to pay in order to do that, and how they really make no money from that kind of tour. How you're basically expected as an indie musician, because Wednesday got some blowback

because they talked about getting an Airbnb and maybe a hotel room and there were some people online who were saying well just sleep in your van or sleep on some random person's floor like why are you getting an Airbnb and that being like the our band could be your life type expectation

that we have for DIY musicians that they have to put themselves you know they have to like live basically at the poverty line or below the poverty line if they want to be in a band. And that conversation continued this week. Stereo gum did this story where they interviewed a bunch of people talking about this. The thing that stands out to me from that article was talking about how little bands at South by Southwest get paid.

I think it was something like $100. It was $250, I believe. I think some people might make like $100. That's probably true too. Like lower on the bill or something. And even if you're playing multiple. shows a day, which most bands do with South by Southwest, that's not a lot of money. You know, especially you're splitting it among several people.

Right. I think we can all agree that if you go to a show buy merch, you know, buy records, you know, spend as much money as you are able to on bands that you love. Like, what is the solution to this? You know, what can we do to make it better for band? I mean, I will say, like, this reminds, we had a conversation about South by Southwest recently. Yeah. And I know some people, we were criticizing a little bit and some people said, well, I went to

the South by Southwest and I saw a bunch of bands for free. It's like, well, this is why you saw them for free. It's not actually for free. The bands themselves are taking the hit at a festival like that. Yeah, and more to the point, man. Like, I remember one of the guys who was interviewed in that Stereogum article was Cole from Dive, who I interviewed back in 2013 when they were going off about South by Southwest. after Ocean came out and they were like really hot shit.

But, you know, they just talked about it's like, yeah, we played like a bunch of 20 minutes sets with like no sound check at the Doritos Locos van stage and our fans couldn't get in. We were being leveraged for credibility. And it's like, that's not fun for the bands. And at this point, like I got to wonder, you know, because the band like Wednesday clearly had like maybe they need to get to another level. But like who, like, if you're a band just playing for experience, like, who the fuck are

you playing for. I mean, we'd almost be better off, like, similar to the Grammys making it completely live. Just, like, make South by Southwest this, like, I don't know, like, at a fucking conference center, just make it, like, straight up a showcase instead of this, like, you know, big, 10-day, 20-minute set, cavalcade of bands getting ripped off left and right. Just move to the fucking convention center. Well, and also, South by Southwest, it exists in this weird gray area where it's a music festival but not really so bands aren't being paid the way they would if they're playing Coachella or Lollapalooza. It is more of this open thing where it's all over the city and it's predicated on this idea that if you play there you're going to be seen by influential people who will write about

you and that's going to help your career. I really feel like we're past the point where that's still true. I'm just trying to think this past South by Southwest. Do you remember seeing many recaps? I think Rolling Stone sent some people. Yeah, Rolling Stones behind a paywall, though, so I haven't seen that. Well, yeah, but like pitchfork, I don't think that's stereo gum. I don't think did, you know, spin. The only thing people covered was like the, hey, we were getting ripped off and here's our money.

Like, here's our financial situation. Yeah, that's the only story that came out of there. I remember, you know, 10, 15 years ago when I was working at the A.B Club, and we would go to South by Southwest. We sent like six, seven, eight people every year. It was like a small army. And that was every major pop culture site would do that. And you would have long recaps every day. And I think back then, you know, I don't think anyone went to South by Southwest unknown.

And then they became stars because of the festival. I think there were bands or artists that went into South by Southwest with some buzz. And all the music writers knew about them. So they would go to their shows and they would write about them. them a lot and that would springboard them beyond South by Southwest. So they already had some momentum and then they would get a big gust of win from all of this coverage. And then at some point I think websites discovered that no one actually read a lot of this

stuff. Yeah. Right? Or maybe it was social media. It was just easier to tweet about it instead of write. I mean, because that's just expensive, man. Like, you know, it just doesn't really make sense. I loved it at the time.

Oh, no. This was the best, man. It was fun, but I remember even at the time feeling like, is this a scam that being sent here? Because it just seemed from the Reader's perspective, there wasn't a lot of value. I was seeing like radio concerts in Bakersfield. I'm like, I don't know who's reading this, but this shit's kind of fun to me. Is this true of like festival coverage in general? Is there, I feel like that's just been paired back.

I literally cannot remember the last time I read up a straight festival recap. And that always seemed like music writer vacation. Yeah, it was. The IP area at Pitchforks. For the most part, we don't get like, you know, benefits or any other kind of thing that you associate with like real deal, like 40 hour per week, full time work. But once every year you might get to go to say like Des Moines for a festival where Japanese breakfast or whatever their 2013 equivalent was is headline. It was fun. I mean, I missed that.

It was fun, but at the same time, from the reader perspective, I don't know how much value it had. So time marches on from there. As does our show, we'll get to our mailbag segment. Thank you all for writing. As always, it's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. I want to do a quick shout out to my friends, Dan, Katie, and their beautiful daughter, Cynthia Rose out in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. They hit us up this week, wrote a really sweet email,

want to shout them out. Absolutely. Hope you guys are having a good drive this Friday morning, if that's when you're listening to us. Let's get to our question here. I feel like you should read this, because this guy's from your backyard. Yeah, he is.

This is from Marco and San Diego, man. Woo! Dude, like you, I'm looking at this question. This guy's definitely seeing me at show, so feel free to, you know, feel free to say hi. So am I the first person? person to write in from America's finest city, that's like San Diego's actual motto. So, you know, is it really?

Yeah, that is not me editorializing. Anywho, let me first say it's an honor. A second, quick PSA to all artists who keep skipping us on tour schedules. We got a world famous zoo and burritos with French fries and them. How is that skip material? Can I just say it quick? I don't think Marco's the first San Diego. Is that how you say it, San Diego?

It is. I don't think he's the first, is he? I think he got other San Diego people. There might be, but this is the first one who's, like, made it explicitly about San Diego. All right. And by the way, this wasn't intentional, but that STP reference that links to San Diego. We're going to have a thread of San Diego law perhaps in this episode. We're going to talk. We'll drive like Jayhu, maybe.

You know, Father John Misty, I feel like he has a little bit of San Diego connection or whatever. Dan Fouts. Yeah, Fouts and Cohen Winslow. That's right, baby. So we're a quarter away through the music year, but, it really feels much longer than that because this year is so front-loaded compared to past years, given how stacked it's been. There are several strong releases that already feel like they're locked into your end list. So Q1 check-in. What are your top five releases this year? And the one

record you were eagerly anticipating but disappointed by. So Marcos are a big thief, Black Country New Road, SoulGlow, Destroyer, and Fox Tales, a record that I really enjoyed from earlier this year, but they got caught up in some really bizarre, a really bizarre controversy. So that one probably hasn't been covered as much as you might expect. And Marco's big disappointment is Beach House Once Twice Melody. You know, I like that he basically alternated, like Steve picks and Ian picks in his list. It was like perfectly alternated. Marco, you are a true ADCAS head.

Thank you for writing. And thanks also for this letter because Ian and I talked about whether we wanted to do a Q1 list in our banter segment. But banter got a little overcrowded. So this letter was an excuse for us to do it in the mailbag. So perfect show planning here. Really worked well. Do you want to run through your top five first? Yeah.

And I mean, God, we could start like an entire 20-minute segment about like why band skip San Diego. But I'm like, I don't want to like anger people. particularly my own backyard, but just say, it's like, I've heard bands describe it as the worst of all worlds in Southern California compared to L.A. and Orange County. So anyway. So, San Diego cast. Yeah, San Diego cast, man, fuck it. Which is better known as inside SoCal. Like, that, if you've never watched that, like the Kyle Mooney YouTube series, it's, like, extremely accurate, except for Poway. So, yeah, it's been kind of tough for me to come up with the top five because I feel as if, you know, like I was saying in the wet leg segment, not really

engaged in the narrative. So some of like my top 10 might be albums I've listened to like three or four times. Number one is definitely Black Country New Road. Like that's going nowhere, like barring a major upset. Like that just feels from the jump like a wire to wire number one. Number two, Kara Kara with new preoccupations. I have Solglo at number three, but like Kara Kara's and how I listen to far more frequently because like as great as SoulGlow is, it's like not something you can just like throw on, you know, every day or, you know, when your wife's in the car or whatever. Number four, I picked Caroline.

There been, I believe I talked about on Recommendation Corner, kind of a offshoot of the black midi UK post-punk realm, but very much like like Dirty Three or Godspeed, you black emperor. I think there's a little bit of this undercurrent in the post-punk UK world of like things getting a little bit emo. And of course, I'm super into that. And number five, I'm just going to throw string machines. Hallelujah. Hell yeah. And real resilient album, super easy to listen to.

And I'm putting that in there as like kind of the, it might not be there at that point in the year end. But it's like the one that I, hey, what do I want to listen to? I'm going to throw that on. It's definitely going to be one of the top five. most listened to. And as far as disappointment, I mean, I think the kind of narrative is flipped on this album because of its success, but Mitzke's Laurel hell, I mean, like, it's still to me is just a record that just kind of came and went and, like, had no impact on me whatsoever. It just seemed like kind of phoned in. And yet, it's, I guess it's indicative of like Mitzke's power and, uh,

you know, market share that a phoned-in Mitzki album can still do major, major, major units. Yeah, so I should note that, and I think you did this too, that my choices, I did a cutoff of March 31st. Right. You know, we're going strictly first quarter here because there are some April records that I could have put on here that I've already heard that I love, but I'm not counting them in here. I feel like MJ Lenderman's boat songs locked into my top five MJ Lenderman from Wednesday

but his up got bumped to be up. It's not coming out for like another month or something. Yeah, it keeps getting bumped so it's not in my top five but let me run it down here my number one surprising no one who listens to the show. It's big thief.

It's a strong of a lock for me as Black Country New Road is for you. Number two, the weekend's Dawn FM. just I think one of the best big time pop records that have come out in a really long time. And I think it's his best record,

personally. I love that album. Those top two for me are in a separate category. To me, they are both like five-star records. And after that, there's a bunch of records I really like that could go in my top five.

I left some of them out. But those two, I think, are in a separate category. Number three is a record we didn't talk about on this show because like when it came out, I liked it, but I didn't love it. But now I've come to love it in the past month. And it's Painless by Nellifer Yanya. Yeah, I like that one a lot. That's like number six or seven for me. Really good record. It presents itself as a singer-songwriter record, but it actually, I think, is like one of the better indie rock records that have come out in a while. A lot of, you know, sort of radio head sounding guitars and, like, big drums, uh, and some just slaying songs on here. Like,

again, it does it, you might think, oh, this is just another maybe precious British singer-songwriter, but no, like, there's a lot going on on this record production wise

that I think elevates it from that. Uh, number four, indie cast favorite, gang abuse, angel in real time. Um, just again,

a beautiful record. Even when it doesn't work totally, I still think it's one of the more fascinating records that have come out this year. Just the level of ambition going on that album. Absolutely. is really great. Number five, extremely neat choice, Destroyer, Labrynthitis. Of the records that he's put out lately, you know, this is a trilogy with, he's described it this way, with Ken and have we met. I think this is the best record of that bunch, and it's my favorite album that he's put out since Caput.

So, really strong record. We don't have any repeats in our top time. No. Which is really cool. I think it speaks to how deep this year is already. but we did agree on disappointment though. Mitzki Laurel Hal is also my biggest disappointment, and I say that because I am a Mitzki fan. I was looking forward to this record,

and I just felt like it was underwhelming. And I won't quite go as far as you as saying that it's phoned in. I don't think that's true necessarily, but I do think that for me, it feels a little bit like Mitzki spinning her wheels and caught between being an indie star and a podcast, pop star and not really landing for me in either camp, although, as you said, she's on the road, she's doing great right now. I think there is a big part of our audience that really loves

this record. So maybe it just hasn't connected with us. We could be totally wrong about it, but I'm with you on feeling disappointed by that record. Let's get to the meat of our episode. We're talking about two 40-something-year-old singer-songwriters in this episode, two guys, at an interesting point in their career. Yeah. I think. They both commanded the zeitgeist at one point. And now they're in this different phase where,

I think in the case of one of these people, I think it was a deliberate retreat. Yeah. From the zeitgeist. But it's interesting how we're going to talk about these records, how they're going to be assessed. The first one, of course, is Jack White. His new album is called Fear of the Dawn.

It's the first of two albums he's putting out this year. The second comes out in July. It's called Entering Heaven Alive. And that record is supposed to be, he's described it as a Sunday morning record. He's released one song from it already. It was this pretty acoustic song. And it feels like maybe the whole record is in that vein.

Fear of the Dawn is the opposite of that. This is one of the more bonkers records that Jack White has made in his career. It feels in many ways like an extension of his previous. record, Boardinghouse Reach, which was an album where in very uncharacteristic fashion, he started working with pro tools, started using sampling. It really embraced more of a chaotic style of songwriting where there's like a lot of different parts to his songs and sometimes they don't always fit, but it's an interesting progression. I feel like I was one of the only critics who liked boarding house reach. I don't even know if you listen to that record.

But for me, I feel like Jack White is in his 80s Dylan phase, where it's kind of like a wilderness period. And he's embracing technology in a way that he never has before in kind of an awkward way. But, you know, I'm someone who loves 80s Dylan. And I think with Jack White, he's such a control freak that to see this guy a little out of his element is actually a really. kind of exciting thing. And I have to say, like, this album, I found myself enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would.

I feel like it's the most metal record he's made. It's the riftiest record he's made in a long time. It's kind of like Jack White decided to make a Queens of the Stone Age album. Like, that's how this record sounds to me. Like, where are you at? Because you haven't really kept up with Jack White. No. If I'm being, like, completely honest,

the last Jack White project, like I actively listened to, like, repeatedly, like, where I bought it and I listened to it and, you know, I absorbed it was, like, actually kept behind me, Satan. So we're talking, like, a 16-year latency period. That album got a lot of burn between X and Y and the first clap your hand and say, yeah, I'm in summer of 05. But, yeah, I mean, with, you know, like, I, with that, it's just not a band I've ever connected to on an emotional level. even to the same degree that the strokes did. And, you know, I kind of respect what Jack White does. But, you know, with him as an artist, he's sort of like a long-running television show or like, for whatever reason, you just miss a season or two.

And then it's like, well, fuck, man, I don't want to catch up on this. But I came into this, like, super fresh knowing nothing besides that there was a Q-tip song or a Q-Tip feature with a Cab Callaway sample that people thought was absolutely fucking awful and in my mind I couldn't imagine it being good. Look, I actually enjoyed this out, like, I enjoy this album like way more than I expected. And, you know, I think it's funny that you mentioned it being sort of Jack White making a Queens of the Stone Age album. That to me sounds really unenjoyable. Like, this is him kind of, there's some like new metal elements to it. Like not, well, I mean, there is rapping, come to think of it, but just like these really exaggerated guitar

tones and he's like screaming a lot more that you know like how much I'm going to return to this album probably not a hell of a lot but this I'm surprised you said like Dylan and not like say Neil Young's like more wilderness periods because I think like Jack White has more kind of like curmudgeon

like even when he's like being clearly kind of dumb he's still sort of right about things yeah I mean it might review, I compared this album. I said that he's in his empire burlesque period, which is Bob Dylan album from 85, where he was working. Yes, take my word for it. That was the album where he really tried to update his sound with like 80 style production. So there were a lot of, you know, there's some drum machines on there. There's synthesizers. He did like a dance remix of like one of his

songs. So it reminds me of that with Jack White just because I think Dylan and White both are pretty stubborn Luddites when it comes to technology and so to hear Jack White again embrace this more cut and paste style of music making I think is pretty interesting

even if I don't think it's totally his bag like I do think that in the context of his career these albums I just feel like some point and maybe it's going to be this next record that comes out in July he's going to return to that more primitive white stripes style of record and people are going to go crazy for it.

Right. You know, because they're going to have this as a counterpoint. And again, but I say that as a person who appreciates what he's doing on these records, I will say like the first three songs on this album are really great. It's like... Yeah, they kick ass. Yeah, and then Heidi Ho comes on. And I'm with you.

Like, I don't hate that song. Yeah, it's stupid. But the momentum... Yeah. There's like, like, the middle part of the record is more of these sort of rock, hip-hop, hybrids that feel like experiments but not fully fledged songs. Yeah. I think the first three songs and the last three are really good.

Yeah. But the first three are just him, like you said, kind of working in this overheated, over-amped, over-driven rock mode where it's really riffy, really fast. Each song is about two, three minutes long. And it's just a reminder that like Jack White is one of the remaining people in music who can still write. really good guitar riffs. I mean, that's that, I feel like that, and I know there's like a lot of hardcore bands and metal bands and punk bands,

obviously, who are writing riffy kind of music, but I'm talking about the kinds of riffs that, like, that soccer stadiums can sing. Guitar Center, like, I'm going to get the fucking SG off the wall and no intention of buying it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, again, I'm not sliding other heavy bands. There's obviously a lot of heavy bands out there, but, you know, not everyone is Jimmy Page, you know, not everyone's writing those kinds of riffs

that feel iconic and I think Jack White still has like a little bit of that magic in him and that's why I'm still interested in what he's doing so again I think this record if you go into it with a fun attitude

and you lean into the eccentricity of it I think it's actually a pretty fun record to listen to. Yeah I kind of wish that I was you know we talked about all music guide on a previous episode like I just wish I was like 21 years old, like sorting through

Jack White's All-Music Guide entry and just going through a Jack White phase because, I mean, this is, this seems like the sort of album that I would like really enjoy because it's not, say, you know, elephant or the ones that are like largely seen as like

the iconic Jack White works. Yeah, he's really at an interesting point in his career. I do wonder if he is going to have his version of time out of mind. Yeah, exactly. That was exactly what I thought. He gets the Grammy now, because, you know, Blunderbuss, his first solo record, that got an album of the year nomination.

It was pretty well received in its moment, and I think that's a good record. Lazaretto, I think, is fine. Boardinghouse Reach, I like just because it's so crazy. And this one, I think, is better than boardinghouse reach. So, yeah, I mean, I really think this is, like, some of his best music that he's made in a while. if not, you know, definitely bonkers, definitely off the wall. Yeah. But again, I think that's better than him just doing another Jack White record.

I appreciate him branching out. Are we eventually going to get him and Julian Casablancus, like, making an album together? It feels like that just needs to happen. That'd be interesting, yeah. Or just some return of rock generation elder statesman. Maybe, like, you know, when they're in their 60s and they're wearing fedoras. Yeah. Or just maybe they make a rap rock album together with like their weirdest worst ideas.

That's probably more likely, actually. Yeah, that's what I'm wanting. By the way, when's the voids coming out with a new album? I've done full circle on the voids. I'm way into like whatever they do next. That's a, speaking of bonkers, rock bands, their fun band. That's a, that record. Yeah, that record, virtue, I think, was their last album.

That's a good record. Well, let's move on to the second middle-aged singer-songwriter that we're talking about in this episode, and that is Father John Misty. He's putting out his first record in four years. I guess that's another parallel here. Jack and Father John Misty both hadn't put out new music since 2018. The new Father John Misty record, his fifth is called Chloe in the next 20th century. And I reviewed this album as well. this week and

basically in my review I'm a fan of this record I think that it has some of his best songwriting that he's that he's ever done I also think it's by far the least accessible record he's ever made under the Father John Misty name some of that has to do with the music

he's dabbling in this sort of cocktail jazz slash Bossa Nova guys on some of the songs I mean half the songs are are him working still in that Southern California 70s-type pop sound. Straight and Father John Misty world.

Yeah. Yeah, but there's also a lot of songs that are delving into music from like the mid-20th century, you know, really going back like pre-rock type music. So that might be something that's difficult for people. But I think what's even more difficult

is that this is the least Father John Misty-centric album that Father John Misty has made. Like if you look at the previous records, it's basically exaggerated autobiography, where he's directly referencing himself in his songs, either as Misty or as Josh Tillman. You know, the last record, Mr. Tillman being the single,

writing about his breakdown that he had, that sparked this six-week, you know, sort of exploration of the soul that that record is about. This record is all songs about other people. It's like a collection of short stories. And not having, the misty character in these songs. It's a little bit like watching Mad Men

and not seeing John Draper. And I think for some people, that's going to make this record a little harder to access. Because this character that you've come to love, he's not on this album. So you have to have a little bit more patience to, I think, appreciate what he's doing. I think it requires, you know,

I really think that the craft of this record is what elevates it, not the drama that you get from the other record. So again, I love this record. I think he passes the five albums test. Oh, here we go. I wonder how people are going to feel about it. What did you think?

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned it's like his first album since 2018. And I think it's like with Father John Misty like four, like four years. No, yeah, it's four years. I lost the ability to do math for a little bit. I mean, like 2018 was like the year of Astro World. That was like the year of like Cardi B and Black. and Black Panther. That is like a frozen and amber historical period.

And, you know, he, Father John Misty as like, he's almost like a satellite of the central narrative now. Like, because, I mean, Mitzky and Beach House put out albums this year. They're first since 2018. And I think both of them have still managed to, like, whether it's through influence or just being like kind of star, like star power, have managed to stay in the disdain. course. But like now, like Father John Misty, it's very, it's, you know, it's still a big event, but it doesn't really say much about anything other than Father John Misty, which I think is kind of

like what he was going for in the first place, like to get be, to not have every, like, have his art viewed through the prism of like what you think about like Josh Tillman's interviews. So like with Jack White, I kind of came into this a little bit fresh. Um, you know, I, kind of, I listened to a God's favorite customer once or twice. It kind of blew right past me. And, you know, I really wanted to like pure comedy just because, uh, just to be kind of contrarian, because everyone was seeming to like, you know, hate on him for being interesting. Uh, but, you know, again, that was just kind of a little too much for me to handle. And, um, you know, with this record, I really enjoyed your review and also thinking that like this is an album I'd rather

read about than listen to because the lyrics and like the character sketches just breezed right past me because the music is so fucking smooth and I mean that like almost like that's kind of what the music is supposed to do but yeah I think it kind of

just rewards people who listen to it because they like they want to know what Josh Tillman has to say about the world as opposed to someone who is keeping up with the father John Misty cottage industry the same way that I listen to the wet leg album because like you know this is what you need to do in order to stay up to date. Yeah, it is a record that I think because it's so pretty

that it can lull you into this sense of numbness. You know, he's really leaning on this songwriting tactic where you have really pretty music and then the lyrics slowly release like a poison capsule into your ears. And he's doing it in a very subtle way. Like there's a song called We Could Be strangers, which starts out as, it seems like it's this back and forth between this couple that's just met and they're having like this romantic encounter. And then by the end of the song, you realize that they've been in a car accident and they're about to die. You know, and this whole thing is, but it's like, there's a lot of songs like that that reveal themselves at the end, almost like a novel that comes together in the final, you know, page. And it can be really, I think, easy to

breeze past that. I could say that for myself that this was a record. It took me a while to get into it. had this album for a few months now and, you know, it didn't grab me in the same way that his other records have. And I suspect that that's how people are going to react. As far as, like, you know, your point about the discourse right now, if I can make a comparison to Pearl Jam, without looking like a total cliche or a caricature of myself, I would just say that I think there's a similar thing to what Pearl Jam did in the 90s where, you know, they deliberately took themselves out of the media. You know, they didn't make music videos. They didn't. Right. didn't do interviews.

You know, Josh Tillman hasn't done an interview, I think, in about five years. There's been no album cycle for this record at all. And to me, it echoes what he's done

in his songs. Like, he's taken himself out of the media. He's also taken himself out of the songs. And now he's more like a director than like a leading man in his own music.

And, you know, we've talked about this before. I wish he would do interviews because I think he's a great talker. I miss him doing that, but I understand why he did that and why he might just want his record to stand on its own. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing. That's the comparison I would make with Pearl Jam and Father John Misty, and people can make fun of me. I welcome it.

I am a caricature of myself, but I do think that there is a similarity there that's worth pointing out. Yeah, it's like when Andre 3,000 stopped rapping. like this is like Father John Nistie stop doing interviews it's like you are preternaturally gifted you are denying the people what they want I think that I feel as if in two some odd years maybe we'll get like that one big like interview with New York magazine or like he like does an interview with Isaac Schottner or whatever where it's like the we got the father John or maybe father maybe I saw today like Donald Glover in an interview magazine interviewed himself. Maybe that's what we're going to get from Josh Tillman.

Well, I do think, and you alluded to this earlier, that he does seem like he's in his own world right now. That's not connected to the larger indie world. Good for him. And I'm not going to use the reaction to my review as a barometer for the state of his career, but I will say, like, you know, there wasn't like a huge response to, like, the review I wrote, like that I might have expected for a record like that. It just seems like in general, the anticipation for this album is a little bit muted.

It doesn't have, especially compared to, as more zeitgeist theme, you know, wet lag or even like your comedy era. Oh, of course, yeah. Where he was really a driver. And it seems like, again, that there is

a function of him just being around for a while. You're not always going to have that kind of moment, but it does seem more deliberate in his case than it is for other people. I think if he wanted that, he could have done some interviews that would have kept this record in the conversation.

I think it's just going to be one of those albums that, like, if you love Father John Misty, you're going to get into this album, you're going to want to see him live, and he's still going to have a big career. It just won't be as, like, this media figure that he was, you know, about five years ago or so.

Yeah, but you know what? Like, maybe him and Jack White get together, and we have like a week-long indie cast talking about like their meeting of the minds. We keep pairing Jack White up with people. First it was Julian Casablancus and now it's Father John Misty. Maybe those three could be like the traveling willberries. I got a crazy idea of who Jack White can meet up with.

And I think this album's going to be fan fucking-tastic. Meg White. That would be amazing. Yeah. Yes, let's make that happen. Those two need to get together at some point. We've now reached part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner. We're Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week.

Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so yeah, as much as talking about Father John Misty and Jack White is like kind of wheelhouse indie cast as a whole stuff, recommendation corner, I am going straight up into like Ian Cohen fan fiction type bands. This band called Tree River, I'm pretty sure they moved from San Diego to Brooklyn. If I'm wrong about that, please correct me. But last week, they released a new album called Time Being. It's got artwork from, it's got that Los Campesinos artwork going on.

One of the guys in the band is named Phil Cohen. And they thank someone. In the thank yous, it says Ira Cohen, which is the name of my uncle, but like I'm pretty sure it's not the same guy. It's got Max Bemis from Say Anything doing guest vocals. And I mean, this is the sort of album that like is really up my alley. And just by nature of me not being as engaged with the promo piles I used to be, kind of slipped by me. Look, y'all. On Bandcamp, it says, if you like Tree River, you may also like

Home is Ware, Dogleg, Origami Angel, a great big pile who leaves it anxious. Like, it's all true. It's very, it's a very earnest at times, maybe just like a little too cutesy with the lyrics, but like in a way that I find appealing. Very anthemic. Just like, I think Stereocum called it a massive emo outpouring. I agree with that. If you like massive emo outpouring, one degree of separation from Los Campesinos type music,

this is the best game in town. I'm really, I'm just really, really charmed by this album. It's very well constructed. They know what they're doing. It's not a sloppy kind of basement emo album. It's like one that reminds me of like, the last song reminds me a little bit of Jimmy Eat World's 23.

I'll just leave it at that. Wow. man see this is like the john patis record where i don't know if this actually exists this seems almost too perfect for you you might have made this album up i'm gonna look on band camp to make sure you're not pulling my leg because again this is like ian cohen made a band in a lab yeah now it exists well i think that's why i was a little skeptical of it you know like whenever i see something that is like a little too geared to my i i almost feel a little bit sorry for the band you know it's like well, I hope you've like, you know, broadened your scope because, you know, God knows what I can do for bands.

But yeah, it's, I got past my initial skepticism of it, and it's a great record. So my choice this week, it's similar for me that this band, I feel like, was just pitch straight down the middle for me to love them. And I think maybe I was a little initially resistant to them for that reason. But I've now gone all in on this band. They're from Texas. They're called Good Looks. their record bummer year is out today. And I got a copy of this record last fall.

And the publicist actually said, this is a heartland rock band I think you would enjoy. And in the video for the first single, which is called Almost Automatic, they're playing in an actual farm field. And I was like, wow, you don't get more heartland rock than that. And I've talked about that song, I think, in a previous episode. That really is one of my favorite songs of the year.

I mean, that song, it was like, yeah, you told me I would love it. I heard it. You're right. I love it. This is a great song. And I've heard people compare it to some of the more recent Strand of Oaks records, which I think is an app comparison. I think of the Bodines when I listen to this album. The Bodines. Oh. And that's because I'm from Wisconsin. Yes, of course. You're contractually obligated to mention your book and the Bodines. The Bodines, but trust me, I mean that as a compliment, you know,

just again, that really vibey, big-hearted, big guitars. nice harmonies type rock music. I just want to get into that all the time. And the other thing I appreciate about this record is, and we've talked about this, that it feels like every band that gets buzzes is from New York or Los Angeles, or they're from England, and they're all singing about the same sorts of stuff.

And this is definitely a record that represents, like, a small town, middle American point of view. Like the title track is talking about, you know, being friends with Trump supporters in your town and knowing like I hate what they believe in, but I also know that they're good people and I'm not going to define them just by that and just the conflicts of going through that type of thing.

I think that's a very relatable sentiment that you don't hear articulated in a lot of songs and that connected with me when I heard it among many things on this record. But again, really nice record. It breezes by in about a half hour and again, almost automatic, one of the best songs of the year.

So definitely get into that record if you get the chance. Yeah, I like this one too. It gives me like this kind of alternate reality that I'm like 22 years old, like living with like eight people in an Austin house. Like, you know, just drinking a Shiner Bach on like my porch. And yeah, I mean, that's like obviously not my reality. But, you know, that's kind of like what. It just reminds me of the life I kind of wanted to live at 22. Yes, exactly.

Yes. It definitely took me back to there as well. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more new. and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie,

and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.