Indiecast - Jet-Lagged Ian Is Back From England + Listener Questions

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

Steven welcomes Ian back to America after his trip to London. Ian regales us with tales of fish and chips-eating and musicals-watching (3:38), and then Steven lurches into a quick Sportscast about annoying NFL teams from New York City (5:33). (Sorry, New Jersey!) The guys also discuss their plans to see Foxing (Ian) and MJ Lenderman (Steven) this weekend (13:35), and the latest status of Ian's Fantasy Albums Draft (20:10).In the mailbag, the guys answer questions about the current state of Bandcamp (26:51), the best musical guests on The Simpsons (33:00), the best decade for music (38:48), and the artists the guys can't believe they haven't seen live yet (47:00).In Recommendation Corner, Ian stumps for veteran singer-songwriter Fred Thomas and Steven recommends the latest from the shape-shifting LA band Peel Dream Magazine (55:06).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 210 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast on the show we talked about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. Unlike Robert Sala, he went to London and didn't get fired. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? I mean, don't speak too soon.

I've recorded podcasts like 30 minutes after breaking my foot, but I've never done the potential jet lag episode. You know, my body, like, I've slept maybe like two to five hours in the past two days. I think my body was adjusting itself to podcasting hours during my, during the end of my London trip. You know, the body keeps the score, as they say. So we're recording this on Thursday morning. You got back from England yesterday afternoon, 3 o'clock, California time. That's what?

I think that's like a 10-hour difference. It's eight. So it would have been about like midnight. It would have been about like midnight because we left at like 12, 15 London time and the flight was about 10 and a half hours. I watched The Deer Hunter. I watched a documentary about White Boy Rick. I watched a 30 for 30 on the Miami Notre Dame rivalry. Oh, that's a good one.

Yeah, it's a good one. Catholics versus convicts? That's it. I think that's the only that's the only 35. 30, I think, available on Netflix. Because I was trying to look them up and all they have is like untold, which is the total like B market version of those things. Yeah.

Yeah. It's definitely weaker. Yeah, that's a great 30 for 30. I love when the hurricanes get off the plane and like the military fatigues. Isn't that that? Yeah, that's so bad. That's that. Yeah, that's them.

That's so badass. That is like, college football. I mean, college football is still huge, but like it was different back then, man. Oh, totally. That is so badass. So give me an idea of the jet leg. Are you like Jim Morrison in the doors, Oliver Stone, like where you're seeing like the Indian chief? Is it like that level of hallucination or how you feeling?

You know, I actually don't feel that different, which is a little scary but like also promising because tonight I'm seeing foxing and from Indian Lakes tomorrow night. I'm seeing Tushay Amore do their record release show in San Diego. like a 250 cap room. I am not going to the Best Friends Forever Festival this weekend. Like I thought about it, but I also realized like even if Vegas is like an hour flight away for me, there's absolutely no way I can do this. Plus I can see all these bands like with it. It's almost like Coachella where they have all these like secondary plays like around

the SoCal area. So I feel, you know, I have had to answer a lot of emails. I actually know I'm not going to be there this weekend, but people are understanding. So is it going to feel like three in the morning then? Like when you see Foxing tonight? Who the fuck knows? So you're confident you're going to make it. You think you're going to make it through this show?

I think because it's Foxing and, you know, if they lean on their new album, which is a lot more aggressive music, like, I'm going to make it. You know, how I feel tomorrow remains to be seen. But like, come on, it's fucking Foxing. I'm going to be all right. And overall, like, how was London? How was your trip? Did you have a good time? Oh, yeah.

I had a great time. You know, regardless, I actually, maybe I'll do like a reverse mailbag because I've been, I was wondering a lot of times, like, how much should I be like DMing or tweeting? Like, do I have to perform on Twitter, like vacation? Because there are a lot of, there are a lot of funny things that came up. For example, you know, when we got our first real British meal, like, you know, fish and chips, steak and ale pie. The moment it got handed to us in the pub, Live Forever was playing.

Nice. He went to Edinburgh as well and there were like Buskers playing. Like there was one busker who throughout our two-day stay was playing different one, different Oasis songs every time we pass by him. But there are also like bagpipe buskers. Oh, man. Yeah. London, London's great. Regardless of like the reputation for like British food, it's impossible to eat poorly there.

There's so much good stuff happening. you mentioned the um you mentioned the uh jets viking game that happened it was the funniest part was being in like soho and being in all these you know really cosmopolitan european parts of the city but you would see these packs of vikings fans and jets fans all wearing vikings and jets gear uh it made for a nice contrast like i mean it was easy enough after like a day or two to spot who was american just like us but i appreciate the people who were like going above and beyond to be American. So you're just seeing like a sea of Jerry Lundeguards from Minnesota.

Like, oh, you're darn Tootin, we're going to take the tube to wherever they played. They played in Tottenham, I think. This, yeah, we're not paying for that chute coat here. Here in England. Anyway, that's, I'm from the Midwest. I can't do the Fargo accent. That's a very weak one. That's an interesting thing that you brought up before about, like, how much,

do you tweet when you're on vacation because there is a thing like where you probably shouldn't tweet because you know you should be separating from the world but I've definitely there have been times like more I tweeted more you know where you know maybe you're out sightseeing with the family and you're getting a little bored so you're checking in on the discourse and you're chiming in and it's bad I mean tweeting in general is a terrible idea I was reminded of that again this week. I got into like a little bit of a spat over the weekend because I was watching that game, the Jets Vikings game on Sunday morning. And I was just being reminded of like one of my big sports pet peeves, which are the NFL teams in New York City, the Jets and the Giants, who are just,

I mean, currently they're dog shit franchises. The Giants historically have, you know, they have a good history. But even when they're good, they're so unwatchable. Like, they're so boring to watch. Like Lawrence Taylor, electric player, but that's like 30 years ago. You know, Eli Manning beating Tom Brady and Super Bowl, that's cool. But like that team wasn't like fun to watch, really. They're always unwatchable. Their offenses are always super boring.

And then the Jets, just a joke franchise. But because they're in New York, we have to hear about these teams all the time. And we have to see them on national TV. Like, why am I seeing the Jets? I mean, I guess these London games are usually pretty bad. Like, this is like a relatively good game. I think next week it's like... The Jaguar.

Like, the Jaguars play like four games a year there. Yeah, it's like Jags and Dolphins, I think, or Jags and the Patriots, something like that. But anyway, I did a tweet where I was like, it should be illegal for New York City to have NFL teams. And immediately, I got like three or four people tweeting at me saying, New York City doesn't have football teams.

They're in New Jersey. Like, come on. You know, like, four people did that simultaneously. And I was like, you're making me hate this team even more. Like, if we're going to be pedantic about this, like, I know, okay, the stadium is in Jersey. But they're called the New York Jets and the New York Giants.

They are a New York team. I'm from Wisconsin. When people call them the Milwaukee Brewers, I don't say, well, you know, the stadium is in West. Alice, Wisconsin, not in Milwaukee. So Milwaukee doesn't actually have a baseball team. I think this is like a New York thing.

Like they like to say, well, New York City doesn't actually have a team because the stadium's in Jersey. Nobody else gives a shit. Okay? New Yorkers, nobody else gives a shit. You have two dog shit teams. They're yours. Own them.

I don't care where the stadium is. Jets, Giants, unwatchable garbage. Just, you know, what's the soccer term? Like when you get the, they're relegated? Relegate them out of the NFL. Unwatchable. I hate those teams. I could watch Danny Dimes all day.

I mean, he's, the Jets are like no fun. Only in the sense that like, yes, you do want to see Aaron Rogers fail and fail miserably. Like, that's kind of fun. The Giants are just, in a way, kind of inept, which is like sort of like the Washington Wizards or something like that. But, yeah. They're actually doing pretty well. this year. They kind of got up to a terrible start, but Danny Dimes has been played pretty well. Well, the NFC East, aside from the commanders, are all dog-shit teams that get way too much play.

So, I mean, I hate the UFC East. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, way too much attention to the NFC East. Even the good teams are unwatchable now. I hate, get them out of here. NFC East, I think the commanders have potential. I, I think, that's true. Yeah, the fact that, like, they're doing well-specific. after they ousted Daniel Snyder. You know, there's something, there's something to be said about that because, like, you know, the same way that the Clippers became more fun if they got rid of Donald Sterling.

You know, I think that there's, I think that there's a good story to be had in there. But I guess the question that I thought of when you were talking about the difference between Jersey and New York with the football teams. And, of course, you know, the most notable Giants fan of all time, Carl from Ackwith. Teen Hunger Force. That's a definite New Jersey thing. What if someone like would describe the Packers as a Milwaukee team? Like, has that ever happened? But it's not the same thing because they're not called the Milwaukee Packers. The analogy would be if they were called the Milwaukee Packers, but the stadium was in Greenback. And then, and then, because what they're saying is, because I was saying New York City

shouldn't have football teams. And they're like, well, they don't have football teams. Because the stadium is in Jersey. You think, you get that same thing in L.A. where it's, you know, no. Nobody wants these teams. Like they are, I guess the advantage of LA is that like nobody takes civic pride. Like the most popular LA-based team is probably the Raiders still. For the Rams and for the Chargers, those are essentially home games for the away team. Like I've never, I've never, that's the thing I like. And I guess Las Vegas will be like this too once like they start having two teams in every major sport.

It's like you start losing any sort of idea about a team belonging to a city. And it's just like a place to go to see a game. I mean, I think that'll be, you know, you hear this a lot with like the chiefs potentially moving to Kansas because they didn't get their stadium voted in. Yeah, but I'm sorry you had to go through that. I do think the Jets and Giants are more New Jersey coded in terms of culture than they are New York City. Because the Mets and the Yankees, those are New York City teams. to me. Like the fandom of that strikes me as very New York City, whereas something about the NFL just strikes me as more New Jersey, like more Sopranos-esque.

The problem is that I don't care enough about these teams to have this debate, the semantic dumb debate that New Yorkers apparently love to have, I don't give a shit, your teams are unwatchable. The larger point is that your teams are unwatchable and should be relegated out of the NFL. That's the larger point, not a semantic thing about like where the state's. stadium is versus what the team is identified and the name of the team. Anyway, with that aside. You're getting that with the World Series. Like, how awesome would it be if we got a Mets Dodgers, like, championship or like the Mets or

the Mets versus the, or the Dodgers versus the Yankees? How cool would that be? It's like, this is 2024. People will not watch this just because it's Los Angeles or New York. Yeah, no one's watching baseball. I haven't watched one inning of baseball this year. Yeah, I got back to San Diego. the night of like they had a chance to clinch and they just got fucking bombed out.

So we'll see. I might watch the game five though. The only thing I'm following is in my feed, I see people constantly complaining about Bob Costas. Like being a terrible baseball announcer. I don't know if you've seen this. I have no idea this was going on. He's because he's calling the Royals Yankees series apparently.

I just see constant complaints about how Bob Costas is and they'll post clips and they'll be like, this is the worst call I've ever seen. I listened to it and it's just like competent Bob Costas doing a call. Like I don't understand. I guess he's not excited enough. People are mad that he's not like getting into the game. I don't understand it. Sports, this is the angriest sports cast I've had in a while.

I'm very angry about sports. So we should just, even though Packers won this week in L.A., which was as you said, the home game basically for the Packers at SoFi. So you're seeing Foxing and Tuchet Morae. and from Indian Lakes. I'm going to go see a guy named M.J. Lenderman play some rock songs this weekend. Hell yeah.

I'm very excited. I've never seen M.J. Lenderman live. Big fan of his live record, live and loose, which I did call at one point my favorite album of the decade so far. I'll stand behind that. Seems a little bold, but I'll stand behind it. It's definitely one of my most listened to albums. So I'm excited to see that.

It's playing Historic First Avenue. also playing O'Clair. I think I'm also going to O'Clair. We'll see what happens. It's a bit of a drive, and I've got to come home after. So we'll see what happens, but for sure seeing him at Historic First Avenue. You've been gone for a little bit, so maybe you missed this, but there's been a couple skeptical think pieces about MJ Lenderman that have run in the past week and a half. One was in vulture.com, and one was in the Atlantic. And I only know this because I'm quoted in both of them. And, you know, and I do, you know, Google myself because I'm a narcissist, so I know when my name appears in various places. And it's just funny to me, like, look, if people don't

like MJ and Lunderman, that's fine. I do think that these pieces seem to be about the reception to the record, more than the record itself, which I find to be a little bit funny because of all the records that get hyped, you know, it makes sense that you would. It makes sense that you see the skeptical think piece about this because like the young male singer-songwriter, it's kind of the easiest target if you want to be skeptical. Like if you were going to write this kind of think piece about, about, about, about brat, you know, be like, oh, why are people going so crazy about Brad? I don't really hear what's good about this.

You're probably going to be on shake your ground with that kind of piece. But, you know, the young indie rock phenom, especially like a male phenom. I think it's an easy thing to be skeptical about. But when people referenced my review, I mean, it did make me laugh because people are applying very unflattering adverbs to my writing. Like, I believe in Vulture, they said, breathless, my breathless review. Technically, that's an adjective, not an advert. I think he said breathlessly written. Okay, there we go.

That would be an adverb. Yes. If it was just breathless, it would be an adjective. It was breathlessly written. That'd be an adverb. But anyway, I just want to say, for those who are concerned, that, you know, that would be an adverb. that column I wrote is like 2,600 words. So I definitely took some breaths while I was writing it.

If I was holding my breath the entire time, I wrote that. It would have been my last column. So I just want to rest assured of all that. So anyway, I don't want to overplay this. It's just like a little thing. I don't think there's like a backlash against him. But it's just funny to see that because I do feel, because like Wednesday, for instance,

was a very acclaimed record last year. Do you think that was more acclaimed than the Lenderman or is Lenderman more? I mean, it seems about the same to me. I don't know if, I don't know what your perception of that is. I would say the Wednesday album was more praise than I think that the M.J. Lenderman album is more about, you know, M.J. Lenderman. Like, any time you see like a backlash article. Now, like, I skimmed the Atlantic one.

I only saw it like a week after it posted. And the Vulture one I had no idea about. Apparently that's like a month old. But, you know, when you see these sort of piece, like a few weeks or however long after the album's actually released. There's maybe like, you can find like usually like 10% of like substantial criticism and 90% is coded. People who like this annoy me for reasons I just can't come out and say.

And I also think that it's funny how, you know, the main gist of the critique is that, oh, this is dudes, this is taking us backwards, dudes rock, dudes this. And the people who write these backlash pieces are dudes themselves. And you could see the kind of clever, but I'm not one of those dudes, dudes sort of thing, which is like not at all an accurate reflection of who I see tweeting about MJ Lenderman. Or writing about him. I feel like it's not just dudes raving about this record. I mean, there's been, I feel like he is bridging the gender gap.

Yes. Certainly among critics, I think. So yeah, just to be like, oh, this is just dudes music. I think that's misreading it. I don't know. I mean, look, I'm as guilty as anyone of being annoyed by the reception to a record and having that sometimes color how I feel about the record itself. But that's why we have this podcast.

We can just dump it in this podcast and not write think pieces about it. If I didn't have this podcast, I probably would have written think pieces like this about other records in recent years. Oh, absolutely. I mean, like that was like the old school blog. And that's what you do. And, you know, it's, I guess like, you know, shout to them for finding a way to get paid to write these things in major publications when it's like hard to write anything anywhere

these days. You know, there was like the joke where everyone on Twitter noticed how the New York Times connections had a clue the other day about like four music publications. And it's like, well, at least there's four that still exist, you know. And some, on some base level, I have to appreciate someone managed to pitch it, get it, cast an editor and go forth, and we'll forget about it, like, by year end. But I just, you know, there's still an instinct out there to look at, like, the indie rocker who's getting some press and talk about it being overhyped.

Like, even now in 2024, when that really doesn't happen. And when it does happen, it's a fraction of what is written about, like, the big-time pop records. You know, like, do we really, like, it's not like 2004. like where, you know, back then you would hear the complaint about how, well, this artist is being written about way out of proportion to like how many people are listening to them. And maybe it was true then. I mean, I think that's even overstated back then, but maybe it was true back then.

It's definitely not true now. And so I don't know. To me that that's still out there just is like, it just feels way out of date and way out of whack to wait to how things actually are. It's like the Nelson Muntz got a new something thing, you know, like the content, the content farm always needs tilling or whatever the farm metaphor that I fucked up there is. So before we get to the mailbag, we should do a fantasy draft update because when we recorded last week, which by the way, it feels like we haven't talked for like a long time. I mean, it's only about a week and a half. It's a little bit longer than usual. I think that's why I'm so

full of piss and vinegar in the first 20 minutes here. I'm just ready to go. I'm like a tiger that hasn't eaten in a week and now you're throwing some red meat at me and I'm just tearing it apart. But anyway, you had three records that came out on Friday when you were in London. I don't know if you were like on the phone checking out Metacritic when you're eating the fish and chips. But can you give us an update? Like, how's your team doing?

No, I checked Metacritic during like the hours of time where we were just like, you know, sitting in a hotel or watching actual British shows called You, rang my lord um everything you've heard about british think comms is true um but yeah i checked out and like oddly enough godspeed you black emperor is kind of fucking me over they're putting up a 77 and i don't see that number moving i kind of this is like an example of paying for past performance like i forgot they put out a couple records after they put out one in 2012 which was awesome and like really praise but i forgot they put out two after that so there's a bit of fatigue with them um they're doing a 77. Otherwise, like, blood incantation, I knew this was a slam dunk. They were doing a 91.

Diasman Williams putting up in 88. So, um, kind of strong. Lenderman, right. And is Lenderman like at 90? Yeah. That was this quarter? Am I, am I, am I, am I losing my mind? That was in October. That came out. That was September 6th. Yeah. That was your first one. I thought that was last, that was last quarter. Wait, if September's not in this? Oh yeah, you're right. Oh, my bad. Okay, I was looking at the wrong thing. Yeah.

That's right. Because you have Mount Erie and Chad Pyle. Yes. Yes, I do. All right. So, and none of mine have gone yet. Yeah, chat Piles this week too. So you're going to have a very good idea of what you're up against.

Yep. I'm going to see. Yeah, I feel like a lot of mine, a lot of my shooters are coming up at the end of October. and then into November. It's going to be a nail biter through the end of the year. I can finally get out to Schneide here. Yeah, Godspeed Black Emperor.

Damn, 77. That could be a big deal. It could be, yeah. I mean, you know, hopefully chat pile comes through. You know, like, hopefully they'll do, like, the blood incantation, like metal fans, like the one metal fan at each publication likes that. Right. Yeah.

So I feel, I think that 77 is going to haunt. me but um i mean blood incantation i mean like that i haven't that's a great pick i haven't i haven't listened to the record yet like that was another thing about being in london because so much of like my time was spent on trains where i wouldn't necessarily be able to get like wifi so there was like october fourth was a historic week for recommendation corner type albums and just albums in general and i heard barely any of them so you should see i'll just think about that blood incantation a really good pick because not only is it going to be written by the metal guy or metal woman on staff the metal guy slash woman they always have like the chip on the shoulder about how like

metal isn't written about enough you know like you got that like the one critic who's sort of likes the niche year kind of music and they always feel like this music isn't getting enough respect so the one record that kind of breaks through you get some inflation with the score because there's sort of an implicit like, hey, other music critics, you should care more about this side genre of music. And this is maybe the pathway into it. So you're getting some of that inflation with blood incantation. Very good pick, Ian.

Very impressive. That's why you're undefeated. As the emo guy, I know nothing about talking about how certain. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You know, the emo people. Yeah. Although emo now, I mean, come on.

Yeah, it's done. It's fucking cooked as far as, like, I haven't written about, I don't think, a single actual emo album in like two years. Wow. The genre's done? You're saying you're putting the fork in it? No, it's not, it's not, it's not, actually like, I don't even think I'm going to be able to do a top 10 emo albums list this year. Wow.

Yeah. It's not cooked as a genre, but just in terms of like it having a space in mainstream critical, uh, conversation. It's, uh, it's pretty mainstream. though. I think it's pretty mainstream. I guess, but like, you know, you're not seeing any reviews of like origami angel or like any of the quote unquote even

or balance in the, the the, in the context of emo like legacy bands. But also that's because, you know, I took two weeks off from writing after just going so hard in September and wanting to take vacation.

So, uh, yeah. I was just going to say one thing that we screwed up on, neither one of us took that four-hour compilation of animal sounds that was reviewed by Pitchfork this week. You showed this to me. I didn't notice this review. Pitchforks back for real. That's the new Mendoza line. They used to be like the Peppa Pig line. Did your album do better or worse than Peppa Pig? Now it's, is your album, does it rate better or worse than the four hours of animal sounds?

And that got a 7.4. So that's like a pretty high bar to clear. A lot of bands don't even get close to the animal sounds standard. Yeah, like our boys in Wild Pink. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, they were like 0.1 below animal sounds this week. That's a rough pull for Wild Pink. But, you know, we prefer you to the Animal Sounds here on Indycast.

I haven't heard this Animal Sounds album yet, so I can't... Yeah, that's true. That's true. I'm being prejudiced against the animal... I love the... Like, if you look at that review, I forget the name of the album, but it says various artists.

Yeah, the crickets are getting like shitty royalties there, man. Lawyer up, man. Like the hippopotamus in Africa, you know, getting like a, just a shitty streaming rate for this record. Doing AI Mudang like the new Caribou album. Caribou, the artist, not that.

We are going so fucking off the rails with this metaphor. I've heard of pet sounds, but this is taking. Anyway. All right, let's get to our mailbag segment. Thanks to everyone who wrote in. It was great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com.

Ian, you want to read this first one? Yes, I do. So this comes to us from our, in his words or her words, parosocial friend Duncan in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Hell yeah. Duncan's question is about Bancamp. As a regular user, I was nervous when it was sold a year ago and downloaded all my purchases in case everything disappear without warning.

Since then, though, I have kept using Bancamp and have been buying a record or two every month. To a regular guy like me, it seems that nothing has changed. A year on, what is the insider perspective on if anything is different? Have sales maintained? Are there warning signs or a placement in the wings? As always, what the heck is a conscientious indie rock fan supposed to do? Thanks, Duncan. Wow, this is a good question because I totally forgot.

Back Camp Controversies When was that? Was that last year? God. That wasn't this year, right? You know, I still forget that, like, the pitchfork bloodletting happened in January. So I feel like, I would say it's like within a plus or minus one month of that.

Don't quote me on it, though. Okay. It feels like 2023 to me. It does. Maybe a year ago. But, yeah, Duncan, I totally forgot about that. I mean, for those who don't remember, there was a big deal because Bandcamp, they were sold to, what was it, Fortnite, the company of this Fortnite?

Epic Games, I think it's called. Epic Games. And the, like, a bunch of the editorial staff got laid off. And, you know, there was this big to do similar to pitchfork that, you know, people were like, oh, band camp is done and, you know, days are numbered and all that. And then something happened. I don't know if we all got memory wiped, but I've, been going to band camp this year and just buying music, like, everything is normal. I

completely forgot about that whole thing. So I don't know how they're doing internally. I haven't heard anything. I don't think there's been any reporting on that. Um, so who knows? But I, I feel like for most people, they've just been shopping there as normal. I mean, am I wrong? Have you been, has this been stuck in your craw for the past year? Have you been thinking about this? I actually have not. And I think that to the conscientious indie rock fan, such as Duncan, or just anyone who is not completely, you know, stuck in this 162 game a year season of inside baseball, that like, the average person who uses Bankham has no fucking clue what we're even talking about. I think that, like, there was like, for someone who is not like an actual music writer, I don't think that

most people are aware of, you know, the, you know, basically like whether there's any sort of, like, ethical issue with, like, Ban Camp. Like, I know that some artists have spoken up about, like, the cut that Ban Camp takes compared to, you know, the service actually provided. But the hubbub about Ban Camp comes down to, like, the public-facing voice of Ban Camp very much being about, like, DIY and S&E. epics and other publications being in the pocket of like music industry and pop optimism and whatever. And it's like, you guys are, you know, owned by Fortnite, right?

And so once that voice died down, which to me seems to have happened over the past year, like there wasn't that dissonance people felt anymore about like band camp, you know. I think that like sometimes you'll see people saying like, they don't feel totally great about this in the same way that, you know, people don't feel great about like Spotify or any other platform. But aside from buying vinyl directly from the band at like merch at a show and even then, you know, maybe the venue takes cut, it's probably the best we can do in terms of ethically shopping for music online, I guess. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely better than Spotify.

I don't think there's any data like that. And yeah, if you care about getting as much money, into the pocket of your favorite artist. It does seem like the best way to go on the internet anyway. As you said, if you're at a show, if you buy a record or merch directly from the band, that's probably the most direct way. If you have a record store in your town, an indie record store, and you want to support the store and the band, that's a good way to go.

But, you know, like a lot of things on Bandcamp, there is no physical version of it. You can only buy the download. So, yeah, I don't know. it still seems like the best way to go. You know, someone might drop the investigative piece that blows the doors off Ban Camp if there's something going on behind the scenes. But as far as I know, it seems like a pretty good company. As far as how they dealt with the editorial staff, I mean, that's another question.

It's also a question of whether people actually go to Ban Camp for editorial content or if they're going there. Because, I mean, I think for recommendations, it's a really good place. If you're at the platform and you want to know what to buy, but in terms of like long form stories, I mean, as a writer, I want as many outlets for that as there can be, but is that something that the audience wants? I don't know.

I mean, I'm inclined to think maybe not, but I don't know. They seem to be doing pretty well. And again, I feel like it's been forgot. Like, did those people just like leave social media? Maybe they went to blue sky or something. Because I'm not seeing, I haven't seen any of that. I feel like I saw it all the time

And then it just disappeared And then I forgot about it And I feel like most people forgot about it Yeah, unless we're getting like, you know The one oral history of band camp Similar to like the 15 we saw when Pitchfork shut down When they didn't shut down But people acted like they shut down

Yes All right, let's get to our next email And I threw this in the mailbag for Ian especially I knew you'd get into this one Hi Ian and Steve can you add a Simpsons cast to an upcoming episode, maybe rank the musical guests that were on the Simpsons? I assume the Cypress Hill Lollapalooza joke is at the top.

And it eventually came true. It did. Do you think Grimes got her name from Frank Grimes? By the way, I just showed that episode to my kids last week. The Homer Palooza or the Frank Grimes one? Frank Grimes. Ooh, that's a dark episode. It's dark.

It was funny, though. I mean, I remember that when it was new. Because we've been going through all the Simpsons seasons with the kids. The kids love the Simpsons. So that's been really cool. And then Ian, why are the Simpsons in mid-a-a-t's emo so intertwined? Lots to ponder. Mark from Pittsburgh.

So I'll let you take away on this, Ian. I know there's a lot of red meat here from you can chew on. Yeah. And, you know, the good thing is there's never, ever been a ranking. of musical guests on The Simpsons ever. Like, if we were to do this, we'd be the first to do so. So, yeah, we need to make sure that we, like, I don't know, maybe in January or February where, like, no albums worth talking about or happening.

Maybe we do it then. But I will answer the last question first, which is that I don't think the Simpsons in mid-a-a-t's emo or really emo in general are intertwined as you would think they would be or that you expect they should be. Like, you know, that's a thing I joke about. often on Twitter, like, I can't believe there isn't a fifth wave emo band who hasn't used, like I sleep in a big bed with my wife or, you know, I did remember a canceled band making a song called Race Car Bed.

But, yeah, other than like Fallout Boy, and I know there's a band called Evergreen Terrace, it's like one of those House of Blues metal band, metalcore bands. The most notable Simpsons references are actually like in straight up indie, like, you know, Yoletangos, let's save Tony Orlando's house, Mitzkees, bury me at Makeout Creas. Also, it's really funny to think about like Mitzky, given her career arc, making an album with like a Simpsons reference. Exactly. That's a, that's a distant era of Mitski for sure. Right. Yeah. Otherwise, I mean, I'm obviously like big on the classic musical guests, you know, chili peppers, Aerosmith, anything from Homer Paloosa. But I want to just give a mention to some of the sleepers. I think the party pop.

episode might be the last of like not it's not part of golden era but it's like one of the few that I can still quote uh as if it were a season seven instinct did awesome on that episode and I like the fact that Justin Timberlake totally hated saying the word saying word and so what they did you'll notice in the episode they just like kept doing that one take of him uh just to like fuck with him because he hated doing it so much I also want to give a shout to the kid rock and of I think Joe C really owned that cameo when Homer went to spring break. You play Fis of Rage. That's a good song.

So, yeah, and also I actually looked up whether or not Grimes got her name from Frank Grimes. And it turns out it's like a much more boring. It's a much more boring explanation, which is that apparently her MySpace page back in the day had like three genres with the word grime in it. But she wasn't aware of what grime music is at all. And also, I don't know if she's a sin, I don't know if she's Simpsons coded. I think anyone who's like spent that much time with Elon Musk is probably much more Rick and Morty. Oh, yeah. But yeah, but I think with Emo, they're much more into like SpongeBob or, you know, things like that than the Simpsons.

I think the Simpsons is like way too Gen X for that. See, my kids started with SpongeBob and now they've graduated to the Simpsons. So, you know, they're going backward in time. And it's been fun to see. Yeah, my first thought was the chili peppers. That was what immediately. heard my mind when you brought up musical guests and them doing give it away and crusty asking them to change the lyrics to what I want to do is hug and kiss you that's a great joke um also thought

about George Harrison showing up great great cameo you know the what the the the barbershop quartet doing the concert on the roof of Moes and he goes by and he says it's been done great joke Tom Petty was in an episode once like with a bunch of other people it was like Mick Jagger Lenny. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. When Elvis Costello gets his glasses broken, my image. Yeah, and Tom Petty's doing, like, a songwriting lesson, like, by a campfire, and he's got the beard.

So it's like Wildflowers era Tom Petty, very cool. And then U-2 was in an episode. That's a good one, too. It's like Pop Mart era, too, you two. So it's a very specific era of U-2. Surprisingly good Adam Clayton content in that episode. him collecting spoons, like a joke about that. So that was very good.

So, yeah, lots of good stuff there. Yeah, we should do Simpsons cast. I've been re-watching it, so I've got a lot of opinions. I can maybe match you, probably not. But, yeah, that would be a good thing to do. One more quick Simpsons thing. I have to shout out my friend Mark Proch, old college roommate, known him for a long time.

He was just on The Simpsons. He did a voice in an episode. Not as himself. He was playing somebody. But I guess this means I'm going to have to watch up to season 36, which I was not planning on doing, but we'll see what happens. But yeah, that's cool. I know someone who's been a voice on The Simpsons.

I feel very special for that reason. You want to read our next email? Yes, I do. So this comes to us from Dan from Westchester, New York, and he is, Dan is telling us that I have a friend who is completely obsessed with 80s music. But his obsessions with 80s music goes beyond just being his favorite. decade of music over the past 45 years of his life, it's almost as if all music ceased to exist after 1989 and he will be forever be content listening only to albums that were made during this

period. So, leaves me to my question, if you were told that you can only listen to music from one decade for the rest of your life, what decade would it be? And here's the kicker. Given that this exercise forces you to choose only one decade from the past, that means you would no longer be privy to any new music. So I'll give you another choice. Either choose the music from one decade in the past or only listen to new music made from this point moving forward. Personally, as someone that is roughly the same age as the two of you, I would choose the 90s. That decade offers great variety and is peak nostalgia for my formative teenage years.

Maybe those classic 90s albums are well worth tradeoff not hearing any new music from this point on. How about you guys? Dan, Westchester, New York. So I double dipped with this question. I actually took this question and I wrote an Ask a Music Critic column on Uprocks that ran last week and actually did really well. People were really interested in debating this. I didn't tackle the second question,

which was, or the second scenario, where he's given us the choice between either picking a decade or new music from here forward. And I'll answer that question now. I think I would pick a decade. Without that. Without that.

Yeah. Between picking like a decade in the past or like music moving forward, I think I'd have to pick a decade. And I feel in the past, I feel a little guilty saying that as a music critic. I feel like that's not what you're supposed to say. But if we're talking about my personal happiness, I just think I would want to pick the decade that I picked, which for me is the 1970s.

And to me, I think that's the most obvious choice. Because the thing with the 70s is that if you look at rock music, clearly a great decade for rock music. And not just like, you know, mainstream rock music. It's the beginning of punk and New Wave and you have Crout Rock and you've got, you know, metal and you've got progressive music and all kinds of strains coming together either hitting their stride or they're being created in the decade. But then you've got R&B, funk, soul music.

Great decade for that. It's a great decade for country music. It's a great music for jazz, especially if you like fusion music. It's the beginning of electronic music. You know, so you've got all that to listen to. Electronic, including like disco, but also like craftwork and Brianino and all that stuff. So I just feel like the 70s is the decade where I would get, it's the least likely I would get bored listening to music from the 70s.

And I think I would keep finding stuff in various genres. That would be exciting. Also, on top of that, it's the best decade for film. So maybe I'll just watch movies from the 70s, too. You just watch the deer hunter. You can watch movies like that and Pacoops now and all the way down the list. So, yeah, for me, it's the 1970s. And I feel like that is not going to be your answer.

I feel like I probably know your answer, but let's hear it. Yeah, it's definitely not my answer. I take the 70s, I think, over the 80s. But, you know, I think the real key in terms of like whether you could listen to one decade for the rest of your life or new music going forward, when people have like at work you know like an icebreaker question is like if you can live in any decade what would it be and I always choose the future but because but like with this situation it's like I could listen to new music going forward but I'm not going to be 18 again I'm not going to be 25 again and I think that's what it comes down to which is that I could enjoy new music but I'm not going to have those formative experiences with them which is really I think you know an honest way of engaging with music as a music critic Like, and so for me, it's obviously the 90s because, I mean, I've reckoned with the possibility or even the likelihood that, you know, new music is just not going to do for me what old stuff does.

And I think that's naturally a part of aging. And, you know, also with the demands of my time, I have to always consider like, do I want to listen? Do I want to like have a 10% chance that I'm going to like like like like like like like offer myself comfort food? And this happens a lot with, you know, my 45. minute commute home from work. It's like I want to be engaged. Like I want to I want to enjoy this to the best of my capability, not feel like homework. And every time I'm like, well, I can listen to a first generation Wu-Tang album or I can, you know, listen to Apex Twin or Boards of Canada. Like those are my go-toes. Like whenever I'm not sure I want to listen to, it's either like first-generation Wu-Tang or 90s IDM or in something like that. And you know, also like if I had to think of like my two, I could listen to this as much as humanly possible. I will never get tired of this desert island island. It's

probably American football and Talk Talks's Laughing Stock. So both of those are the 90s. It feels like an easy answer to me. Plus, you know, if I chose the 70s or 80s, I wouldn't be able to hear the flies got you where I want you ever again. So I got to like take the utmost utility there. Yeah, I would say the 90s second. That would be my second pick. The thing with the 90s is that you're right, because of the age that we're at, that was the decade of, like, the most powerful musical experiences I've ever had. So the highs are as high as anything, but, like, the lows are as low as anything. Like, there's a lot of 90s music that I hate, and it's because I was there when it existed. And some of the 90s music, I hated at the time, like, I've come around on

a little bit more. Like, I hated New Metal in the 90s, and I like it more now than I did then, although I think there's still like a lot of just terrible music in that genre, like more than I feel like new metal's like a little overpraised now at this point. Oh, absolutely. Because like, okay, come on. It's like, yeah, corn. Did they put out some good records? Yeah, but like, you know, Limp biscuit is largely trash.

I mean, come on. Let's be real. Yeah. And they didn't even, and apparently they didn't even get any royalties. Like I saw that popping up in the news where they had to say like, yeah, we didn't make a dime from universal music. So that would be the thing with the 90s for me is that there's a lot of music I love, but there's also music that I feel like I would be fine, never hearing again.

So, like, if that was the only decade I was stuck in, it would be difficult. But, I mean, I feel like most people are going to say whatever decade I was in high school and college. I'd be surprised, you know, like, I'm a little bit different maybe because I picked a decade where I was only alive for three years and I was not cognizant. of music in the moment. But I think most people would probably say, yeah, whatever decade I was, you know, between the ages of like 14 and 24. And for some people, that's going to be the 2000s, even though, like, can you imagine

if that was the only decade you had? The 2000s? I don't know. There's a lot of music I like in the 2000s. Great year for, a great decade for indie rock. But man, 2000s are also pretty awful. I don't know. The problem with picking a decade where I was alive is.

that I just remember all the bad music, you know? And I think it's easier to have a sort of a rosier picture of a decade that you didn't experience firsthand because you only remember the good stuff, whereas I remember the bad stuff, too, from decades where I was alive and paying attention. Yeah, I mean, I could, the, the question, though, is, like, will I be exposed to the bad stuff in this hypothetical situation? Or will I just have, like, my freshman year Winamp playlist? And if that's the case, then, you know, I think I could roll with it.

All right. Well, let's get to our last email here. I think we have time for this one. Yeah. This comes from Mark from New York, New York. He probably didn't like my Jets, Giants rant at the top. Sorry, Mark. Sorry about that.

Dear Stephen Ian, this past week, I listened to the War on Drugs. Latest Live album, Live Drugs Again. Good job. And the album was so incredible that I actually got mad at myself because I've had so many opportunities to see them live over the past decade, and I've just never gotten around to it, even with some great lineups and venues in the mix. Not for a lack of desire, mind you.

I actually really like the war on drugs, which actually makes it all the more frustrating and embarrassing. I'm now determined to see them live the next time they play in my area, and I'm sure it'll be a killer show. But my question for both of you is, are there any bands that you've always meant to see live but just haven't? I'm not talking about situations where bands rarely tour, but more like unexplainable situations where you just haven't gotten around to it.

Bands that make you go, how in the hell have I never seen them live? Sincerely, Mark from New York, New York. This is a good question. Do you have any bands like this, Ian? Yeah, and I didn't even realize, like, I didn't realize that, like, the War on Drugs is actually one of those bands for me. Like, I don't think I've ever seen them. I mean, no, I, you'll love this. I saw them, like, wagon wheel blues era.

Like, I had, at us. I don't remember if it was called Spaceland or Satellite at the time in L.A., but I do remember seeing that. But otherwise, I don't think I've even seen them. Like, okay, no, I think I've seen them at like maybe Pitchfork Festival. Maybe? I don't even know. Maybe that was one of the years I missed. But, yeah, war on drugs.

But, you know, when I was thinking about this question the first time around, this is going to be very surprising. And, like, I'm actually shocked that. I've never seen, like, a full-on headlining Jimmy E. World show. What? I know, right? I've seen them do, like, they've done a lot of co-headliners over the past 10 or some odd years.

Like, I saw them open. Not open. They did a co-headliner with third eye blind and thank God, Jimmy Eat World played first so I could leave. You know, I've seen them at festivals. I saw them do an anniversary show for futures in 2014, but, you know, never just Jimmy World because, you know, like my peak fandom of, like, 2001, 2005, like, I just, I don't know, maybe I didn't have money or I just didn't know where they were playing.

But, you know, once they started touring, chase this light and invented, I just wasn't that interested anymore. And by the time, they made a big comeback with Integrity Blues in 2016. They just never hit up a town I was in at the time. I was moving across the country twice during that time. And, like, boy, would I have loved to see that one, because those are the ones that, like, the hotel year open. So, I've seen Jimmy Eat World. I saw them on the bleedable. American tour.

Fuck, man. I saw them with Sparta and Kavan. Holy shit. At the University of Wisconsin Green Bay in 2002. And if you look in the archives of the Post Crescent, like I reviewed it.

And I'm sure that review is terrible. But that was a good show. They were good. Wow. That's history right there. There you go, baby. Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I just never saw them do like, you know,

a deep cuts one because they do have their like, we're playing with Third Eye Blind, we're playing with Manchester Orchestra, playing the hits and like maybe a new song or two. But I would love to, I owe it to myself to see at least one gig where they do deep cuts. But also, I don't think I've ever seen Coldplay live.

Yeah, I haven't either. Yeah. It's supposed to be great. Oh, I mean, when I was in London, there were like a lot of advertisements or adverts, as they call them there, for the moon music tour that's happening in 2025. And, I mean, they do like a lot of stuff.

I think that like Muse say they're going to do with like magnets and like all these technological advances. So I'm sure it would, well, I don't even know because it's sort of like the Simpsons where it's like there's a very brief period of time, which I would love to see Cole play. But they've been, you know, the band they are for longer than they've been the band that I liked. So I also don't think I've ever seen Interpol live. Yeah, I saw I saw them very early on the. when they first started touring, turn on the bright lights, and a club that was like 150 people.

And then I saw them on Antics Tour, actually. So I've seen them twice. Yeah. Because I heard they, like, when I was doing the Antics, 20-year anniversary piece, they're probably into like 60,000, 100,000 people in Mexico City.

So I would love to see what that would be like. But, yeah, I don't think I've ever actually seen, like, a Queens of the Stone Age show either. And, you know, I would have loved. to see them, you know, like, rated R songs for the death era, but, you know, yeah. So, yeah, like, it's weird, like, the 2000s, like, a lot of blind spots for me in terms

of seeing bands live, TV shows, and movies. Like, I was very cognizant of a lot of things in 2000, but, like, I just wasn't participating in culture a lot. Yeah, I didn't go to a ton of shows in the early odds. It's because I lived in a small town. And the closest cities that had shows were like two hours away. And I didn't know a lot of people that were into music that I liked. So, you know, I was weird about going to shows by myself at that point, which I do all the time now.

But I didn't do it back then. I was trying to think of a good answer for this. And I was like, you know, I think I've seen most of the people that I like. I mean, it's really just bands that I kind of missed out on where I, what I wasn't. had opportunities and I just didn't do it. Like one thing that came to mind is kind of a weird choice, but I do love this band is Fleetwood Mac. I would have loved to have seen Fleetwood Mac with Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nix together.

And I don't think that's ever going to happen now. And there were numerous opportunities I would have had in the past 20 years to do that. I did see Lindsay Buckingham by himself, which was an amazing show. he's like the most intense person ever on stage just bulging like veins coming out of his forehead singing go your own way like he just got dumped by stevie nicks and it's like you know 40 years later um that's the only one that came to mind i was because i was trying to think of like newer bands that i haven't seen live that i you would think i would have seen live and i can't think of anybody really i'm coming up empty

Yeah. So I don't know. I don't have a good answer to this, I don't think. Yeah, I'm also reminded of like 2008 or I could have seen Portishead live, you know, if it's pre-Cochella, it's private event, but I like got too drunk and I missed it. So that's bringing up some bad memories for me as well. But yeah, I would have loved to have seen that. Yeah, I mean, you know, like I didn't get to see Purple Mountains, obviously.

Right. That would have been, like, you know, David Berman in any incarnation. And that's a show that I really wish I would have been able to see. But he didn't tour live very much, though. I'm just trying to think if there's other instances where maybe someone passed away. And you're like, oh, shit. I would have loved to have seen them live. Because, like, I saw Chris Cornell with Soundgarden a few years before he died.

So I got under the wire with that. I don't know. I think I've just seen everything, Ian. I think I'm good. I can't come up with a good answer to this question. Yeah, my life is a completed checklist. That's a Drake lyric. I can't, uh, so, yeah, I have seen Drake live. I saw him perform at Coachella in like 2015. That was the last year I went to Coachella and apparently, guys, it was not good. You now reached the part of this episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So, yeah, October 4th, I think it was a day that will supply me with a probably endless amount of,

of recommendation corners, like some of which I haven't heard yet, but I'm going to take this time to focus on our boy Fred Thomas and his new album window in the rhythm. If Indycast existed between like 2015 and 2018, I'm sure all three Fred Alps, Fred Thomas solo albums would have made Recommendation Corner, those those were like kind of a trilogy where he was doing a bit of a like a Mount Erie Sun Kill Moon thing of being like very candid and direct about a lifetime in DIY indie music. And those were just like really powerful, but also like very niche albums. Like if you know someone who likes Fred Thomas, like it's a very small group, but it's very much my thing. And, you know, if you like lyrics about settling scores

with Olympia Street Punks or working at American Apparel, that's there. So I mean, he's been constantly making music since, and he has since, you know, Saturdays look good to me in the early 2000s, but this is like the first true Fred Thomas solo album since 2018's aftering. And it's pretty similar in terms of like, you know, reflections on college apartments and playing empty shows and all the things that you accumulate over 30 years of playing indie rock music. But now this album is kind of more of a Joanna Newsom-Ease inspired seven to eight-minute format. It's seven songs that I think like 56 minutes and just really sprawling and meditative and just very resonant in terms of like what he's doing.

I didn't think he could continue down the path he did with, you know, all are saved and aftering and changer. But yeah, if you haven't checked those albums yet, do that. And then get to window in the rhythm. But I think this album stands on its own. We love Fred Thomas. I'm a Fred Thomas. And if he releases an album next year,

I'm sure it'll be in Rec Corner too. Also a music critic. Oh, yeah. AllMusic Guide and I think he's written for pitchfork, hasn't he? I think he has. Yeah, he always does the, like the slump. Like, AllMusic Guide has like an unusual lean towards like Slumberland type, like indie pop. And like Fred Thomas is always the guy on the beat there.

Is he for Michigan? Absolutely for Michigan. True life. I think he lives in Montreal now, but, uh, yeah, total Ann Arbor. Like my friend from Ann Arbor like would say that, yeah, like, every time like you, like every time you go to a show, you're going to see Fred Thomas. If you think that's Fred Thomas, Fred Thomas is at that show.

An AllMusic Guide has their roots in Ann Arbor. I don't think they're there anymore, or they might be, but when I auditioned for AllMusic Guide, I had to drive to Ann Arbor in my 20. Have I told you that story? I don't think so. I applied to work at AllMusic Guide in my mid-20s,

and I went there, and I had to review like six albums in an afternoon. Oh, it's like a real audition. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. Stephen Thomas Erlewine was interviewing me and he was like, yeah, this is what you do like every day. You just like review albums every day. And I think I took myself out of consideration. I don't know if they were going to hire me. But I took myself out because I was like, I don't want to, I don't think I can do this. This just feels like it would kill my love of music. And also, I mean, they gave me just garbage. I reviewed like a Cotton Mouth Kings album, I remember.

It was one of the ones I had to write about. But anyway, the album I want to talk about today is by a band called Peel Dream Magazine. They used to be based in New York. Now they're based in the other city in America, Los Angeles. And I've enjoyed this band for a while now. And you could say that they're a bit of like a genre hopping band. Like when I first discovered them, they were making sort of like stereo lab, inspired drone rock.

And then their next record was like this Beach Boys' 60s pop sounding record. And this new album that came out, actually came out in September, it's called Rose Main Reading Room. To me, it reminds me a lot of like air, particularly their album, Takiwaki, which is like one of my favorite albums of all time. I actually saw air last weekend, by the way, playing Moon Safari. That was pretty fantastic. I've also seen people liken this record to Sufion Stevens, Illinois, which is not a record I know as well, so I'll take their word for it.

But it's just very beautiful, almost orchestral sounding songs. And they're just so on point, not just with songwriting, but like it's just great sounding instruments. It's like really well recorded. You put your headphones on and it's like a treat to listen to. And I just think this is like a really good band. They have four records now. I think they're all good. They're a little under the radar,

but for those people who are on the wavelength, I think they've got like a pretty solid cult of fans. And if anything I just said, sounds like it might appeal to you. Definitely would recommend this band. Just a really good band. I like this record a lot. I've been listening to it.

It's kind of been my default record to put on when I'm writing lately. So it's called Rose Main Reading Room. The band is called Peel Dream Magazine. Yeah. I'd also throw up. in us there's a lot of Sufyan Stevens like Michigan era Sufion Stevens in there it's yeah it's like record collector rock in like a positive way I agree with it

it's like a lot of air a lot of Sufian and I'm excited to hear what their next down would be because you know they got good taste and they put it together very tastefully so a lot of people I know have been into this record as well thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast we'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.