Indiecast - King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard + Early 2022 Album Of The Year Prognostication

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

To be considered "prolific" in the music world, an artist usually puts out an album every one or two years. But what about bands who routinely release several albums a year? On this week's Indiecast episode, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen deep dive into King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard's wildly fruitful career (they've put out 23 albums since 2012, including five albums this year) (40:56). Plus, Indiecast shares their forecast for which bands will make the rounds on 2022 Albums Of The Year lists (20:56).In terms of music news this week, Taylor Swift's new album Midnights once again seemed to have the internet in a chokehold so Steven and Ian discuss how each Swift album cycle sparks the same debate about stans (3:32). Plus, Indiecast names bands they consider to be the Velvet Underground of this generation (10:16).This week's Recommendation Corner (54:09) has Ian telling listeners to check out Sam Prekop And John McEntire's recent album Sons Of, which is surprisingly melodic. Steven recommends Dazy, the project of Virginia-based singer-songwriter James Goodson, whose debut LP OUTOFBODY is fun, catchy, and bedroom pop-adjacent.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 112 here or below and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard and engage in some early album of the year prognostication. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. Be sure to ask him what a SWIMO is.

Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? I just love when we lead off with it. article from Alternative Press. That's how you know it's a good episode. Alternative Press, breaking news on the crossover of Taylor Swift fans and emo fans. You brought this article to my attention right before we started recording. I just want to read the first paragraph.

What's something Taylor Swift and emo bands have in common? While that statement feels like some sort of chicken crossing the road, jive. You'd be surprised what similarities Swifties and swoopy-haired emoes share. Whether it's describing lyrics, poetically mapping out the cruel fate of a broken heart, or how the

media has often vilified both of those vulnerable lyrics. Their common denominator seems to lie within their fan base. They'll describe Swaymo's sit at the crossroads between loving Swift and emo music, singing along to moody tracks like Better Than Revenge, and an equally moody, dark

and they also wear dark clothes. Well, it might sound like a concept straight out of Tumblr, the Swemo Army is a force to be reckoned with. How do you feel about this? I mean, as a guardian of the emo brand, like the Swemo movement, I was looking on Twitter, there seems to be real numbers with this thing. I mean, you are not a swoopy-haired emo. No, I'm like a no-haired emo person. But, you know, I think you can look at the when we, you know, when we. were a young festival happening in Las Vegas or not happening in Las Vegas last weekend.

And, you know, I think that that along with the popularization of like Emo Night LA and so forth is more or less just proof that like Emo, much like Taylor Swift is like popular kid music. But, you know, as far as like the crossover between my Emo and Taylor Swift, like at work the other day, I read this past Saturday to see Death Cap for Cutie. and one of the biggest Taylor Swift fans in the vicinity. Like, I think she's around 32, 33 years old. She was like, oh, Death Cab, like, they make me just think of 2010.

It was just like the most devastating diss a person could ever give me. So, like, it's not even like the sort of mutual respect that, like, Taylor Swift shows the, like, Jimmy Eat World. Well, actually, no, it exactly is because there was that Apple commercial where she, to the middle. It's like, I used to listen to this in middle school. I mean, yeah, it's a good bump for Jimmy Eat World. And also, you have to have to wonder, like, how, you know, they feel about that particular praise. Yeah, you know, I mean, they've aged into classic rock. They're in their classic rock period. So you're going to hear comments like that more and more as they get older. I got to say

this week on social media was really rough and it was because there was a new Taylor Swift album that came out last Friday Midnights, maybe you've heard about it what is it about Taylor Swift that when she puts out a new record

it just it destroys social media it is like it is the it's like a hurricane of toxicity just sweeps through it's like a hurricane Katrina of toxicity

every single time she puts out a record I mean you have people that like her way too much and then you have people who are reacting to the people who like her way too much so they dislike her way too much

it just becomes unbearable and I feel like this has lasted longer than other album cycles for her. It just keeps going on and on. And it's not like some other pop star who puts out a record and has a lot of fans. I feel like there's something unique to Taylor Swift

and I don't know what it is. But she ruins, like, I mean, like Twitter is a terrible platform anyway, but it's like on Taylor Swift, like if she puts out a record, it's like, evacuate the area. You know, take a bus, to Houston, get out of town, because it is going to be terrible.

Like, what is it with her? I mean, you bring up, like, how we sometimes have to, like, prepare ourselves for, like, Taylor Swift Day, you know, like, as somebody who works in mental health, I think of the concept of coping ahead. Basically, if you've seen the rehearsal, you know what to cope ahead is. It's just basically, it's preparing for, like, a uncomfortable situation. And, yeah, I mean, like, Taylor Swift does tend to make Twitter in particular. I don't know about Instagram or, you know, be real or what have you, being unusable on Taylor Swift album release days.

But I think what it is is that, as you alluded to, it kind of combines the worst components of, you know, pop star stand Twitter and the worst parts of music critic Twitter, which are both, you know, bad in their own ways. And I don't think any real, any pop artist pulls it off the same way. Like the only artist I can think of who's at the same level of acclaim and popularity might be Beyonce. But the thing about Beyonce is that, you know, as much praise as she gets, I think that most people at least allow the fact that she's not really supposed to be relatable. That's like kind of the point of Beyonce. She's seen as this like divine, untouchable figure. And you really can't get away with acting like she's singing about your life. in any real way. Whereas Taylor Swift, on the other hand, you know, despite being, I guess we're looking

at what, like 15, 16 years running like one of the most recognizable pop stars on the planet, to some degree people can like hear her music and say, oh yeah, this is stuff I experienced. Not just like the underlying emotions, but the actual plots of it. And even if you don't, you know, really care about her music. You can kind of follow the plot of her life as it's like the Bachelorette or something along those lines. So you have that. And as you also kind of alluded to, you have what I consider to be maybe the original sin of pop-timism, which is that pitchfork didn't review 1989. And so unlike, you know, people who love Adele or people who love Beyonce, people who are Swifties, at least in the critical sphere, can still have kind of a chip on their shoulders and

feel like underdog. So, yeah, that, can we, can we put the kibosh on that? We should, we, we should have done this years ago, but the underdog element or the idea that you have to, like, correct the record with Taylor Swift, it's been corrected, okay? Taylor Swift is, like, one of the most acclaimed, discussed artists on the planet. There is so much Taylor Swift conversation out there. They're teaching courses on her at NYU. Okay?

They're not doing that with like the indie rock band duer. Okay. Taylor Swift, she just engenders. And again, I keep saying Taylor Swift, I'm not blaming her necessarily. It's not her fault that people apparently go insane. They lose their damn minds every time she puts out a record. And that's true on both sides, by the way. I, you know, there are, like I said, I think there's people.

who dislike her way too much. And it's because they're sick of hearing about her all the time. It's a very reactionary stance, I think. Because, look, I think she's fine. There are records of hers that I like quite a bit. There's other records that I think are boring and not that great. But I think she's obviously a good artist. But the hysteria around her, it seems to be building and not declining,

which I find to be intriguing. because as you said, she has been around now. I believe her first record came out in 2006. That sounds about right. So we're looking at 16 years now. Her being like a mainstream pop star, that's about 10 years. Like I would say red is the beginning of that, maybe speak now. But over a decade of her being a very visible pop star.

There was that period in like the mid-2010s where there was a backlash against. her lover right if you're with that out no it was like reputation oh that's her on yeah and and people were blaming her for uh Donald Trump getting elected because she didn't endorse Hillary Clinton like all that insanity oh yeah um fun times yeah she weathered that it seemed like oh wow Taylor swift maybe she's going to go into a period of decline now because it's her fault that Donald Trump is president but then people forgot about that and now we're just like like people are ripping their hair out of their skull when she puts out a new record. She has to stop putting out record so often.

I think she's put out so much music in the last few years. People just can't take it. It's like they're just overloaded with endorphins right now. People need to chill. They need to like smoke a cigarette on the back porch for a while just to calm down about Taylor Swift. Let's get to our mailbag segment. And thank you all for writing in. It's always great to hear from our listeners.

You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. I think we have a good question this week. This was an interesting premise that was introduced by our listener. Do you want to read this letter, Ian? I do. Hi, Stephen Ian. Here's a question for you. It was often said about the Velvet Underground that while they might not have sold many albums when they were active,

everyone who bought one went out and started a band. I haven't heard that one before. Which current artists or artists? That's a Brianino quote. Yeah. It's not exactly like that. I know. Brianino said that.

Which current artists or artists from the recent past do you think might be considered the Velvet Underground of their generation? A band's band, so to speak. I can, I love this energy right here coming up. Here's my nomination. Eagles. Not like the Hotel California band, but like it's like Seagulls. without an S. I think you can draw a pretty straight line from them to the current crop of post-punk headliners like idols, Fontaine's DC, shame, etc. I think that self-titled Eagles debut in hindsight

was incredibly influential, and I bet all the bands I have mentioned have copies of it. Now let's hear your picks. John G., Charlotte, North Carolina. So that Eagles record, wouldn't have that come out? Was that like 2012 or so? I want to say 13 or 14. This is like pretty, not elite. level remembering some guys, but, you know, at least All-Star remembering some guys. It came out in 2014. I was almost convinced that you wrote this review for it, but you didn't. We are going to be referencing another one of your reviews later on in this episode. Excellent.

I think I found, actually, I'm going to reference it right now because when I read this question, the band that came to mind, and it's not a perfect fit because I, I think that they're not necessarily just a band's band. They do have an audience. But I was thinking about Dive, that band. In particular, their second record, which you did review for Pitchfork. And I got to look at this quick, because I never get this album title right. It is one of the most awkwardly titled Great Records of recent years.

Is the Is The Is R. Great record. Great record. a confounding album title. I never get that album title right. Is the is our. Really frustrating capitalization in that one. Yeah, it's almost like they were

trying to put out a record that people wouldn't want to listen to when they titled it that, even though it's a great record. And it's interesting because you wrote the review for Pitchfork. It got an 8.1, but no best new music, which is about as high as you

can get, I think, without getting the best new music. I guess they might push it to an 8.2. Yeah, that's possible. But sometimes that... Maybe 8.3? That sometimes does and that sometimes doesn't. I mean, to me, what that says is that the people at the site, or at least you, really like that record, but we don't want to give it the institutional endorsement, you know, for whatever reason. It just suggests to me that that record was a little shrugged at, I think, when it came out. And it now seems like an album. I feel like I hear echoes of that record in a lot of bands that I hear in 22. Another band, I might be crazy for suggesting this.

Please tell me if I'm crazy for suggesting this. But what about FOXygen? Wow. Because I feel like, and we're going to be talking about King Gizzard, here in a bit, you know, this generation of retro-sounding bands that are drawing on classic rock history and deconstructing it and putting it back together in different shapes, that's a very popular aesthetic. I feel like Voxygen were sort of on the leading edge of that, at least like in modern indie. And then you have someone like Jonathan Rado, who has become a pretty big producer

in the indie slash rock world, you know, working with Father John Misty, the Killers, Wise Blood. He's worked on, I think, every Whitney record. So I kind of want to suggest Foxygen. I don't know if that's crazy or not. Wait, what do you think about that? I would say that Foxygen is a band who,

of whom you can hear echoes in a lot of modern music, particularly for like the sort of indie rock that tends to be like popular, but not particularly critically acclaim. Like the bands that, like, you see on the schedule for, like, thousand cap venues in your town and you just haven't seen them reviewed at all. That being said, I think there's just so much negativity around FOXGGN. Like, soft canceled or hard canceled.

Can't really tell that it's true. Yeah, that I think you're correct, but I don't think you're going to see people bringing them up. So they're kind of, they make me think of Eagles as well. Well, Jonathan Rado is the non-cancetal part. Sam Francis, Sam France is the person for whom the rumors swirl. Yeah, we'll put the focus on Rado because I think he's doing a lot of good work. Yeah, so I think like Eagles is kind of similar to Foxygen in that they might not be like influential, but they may have anticipated a greater trend a couple years ahead of time.

Speaking of like soft canceled, I want to read, the thing that I remember Eagles for is their Pitchfork Rising article from 2014. I'm just going to, I'm just going to like read a brief section of it. So they wrote this like open letter on their blog. They went to South by Southwest and they criticize and these are all direct quotes. So don't like hoist me up on a, I don't know, hoist me by my own partart. I don't know why that phrase came. out. But, ahem, among the things it called out, all quote, and these are all quotes, all beach bands sucking each other's dicks and rubbing the presses clit, bands that employed disgusting Afrobeat sounds, bands that get attention from music industry heads because you are girls or have girls in your

band. So that's what I remember Eagles for. This is from their rising article, by the way. Not a great band. But nonetheless, I think I could say, like, you know, parentheses derogatory. They may have, like, set the tone for a lot of bands. I don't like. I don't know if they would call them. I don't know if, like, idols or, like,

Fontaine's DC would, like, say, oh, yeah, we were definitely influenced by Eagles, but, yeah, I guess you can make that argument. I do think dive is a pretty good choice. There's always going to be kind of a thriving wave of heavy music slash shoe game.

that bands draw from dive a lot and they do so in ways that kind of show you where dive skill lies. I hear a lot of kind of piss poor imitations of dive in the same way. I hear a lot of piss poor imitations of always. But as far as like bands bands, this one was a pretty obvious answer to me in that spirit of the beehive. Like since the jump, like ever since the guy who was in this band left Glocko Mora, which, you know, I'm a little pissed that I did not do a 10-year anniversary for Just Married, one of the great emo revival records. This has been a band that, like, everyone in Philly and otherwise say, like, yeah, this band's the shit, like, we love this band.

And right now, it seems like their, I don't know, popularity is maybe catching up with their reputation to the point where they might even be, like, just a touch overrated. The thing about Svirate of the Beehive, though, is that they've been compared to Animal Collective in certain ways for being, like, a bit abstract. noisy and similar to Animal Collective in like the late thousands, this band's influence is like kind of turning me against them in a little bit of a way because I hear a lot of bands who like write really good songs and then they start saying, oh yeah, we're really blown away by Spirit of the Beehive. And then they start, you know, get it like moving away from writing good songs and

just doing like weird sound effects and like tape manipulation. It's like, uh, I don't know. like I'd rather have songs. I mean, I get bummed out in most ways when I hear bands say they're influenced by Spirit of the Beehive. I like Spirit of the Beehive, but I especially in Philly, I'm feeling like bands maybe need to kind

of shy away from that. Yeah, it's almost like how a lot of musicians love Frank Zappa. Because he's just a musician's musician. He's like super talented as a player and as a composer. But there's also a lot of annoying, obnoxious aspects to his music. I say this, I'm a Frank Zappa fan,

but he's also maybe the most obnoxious musician of all time. But yeah, I think there is something similar with Spirit of the Beehive where if you're a band, just like on a technical level from an ideas level, you look at a band like that and you're, you can't help it be impressed because they're doing something that seems really unique to them. I think we need to square the circle here and like say the unsaid which is that between like foxogen's kind of you know gnarly story and frank zappa i think if we could i think if we look past like january 6th aerial pink would be a definite answer for this because he was just so massively influential uh that's true and you know for for a lot of like home a like a lot of uh you know home recording uh artists and you know maybe maybe he still is

but no one's going to admit it, at least not now. Yeah, I think his approval rating among musicians is probably much higher than it is among people in the press. I think if you get a lot of indie musicians alone off the record, they would probably be stumping for Ariel Pink, even if they are turned off by all the insanity around him in recent years. Let's get to the meat of our episode here. And we're going to talk about King Gizzard here in a bit. I'm excited to get to that because I feel like people have been asking us to talk about this band. And we just had to wait for a month where they put out three albums.

So this is the appropriate time to talk about King Gizzard. But I wanted to get your take on this because we're about a month away, believe it or not, from year-endless going up on music publications. it may be even less than a month. I feel like in England, you start seeing year-end lists like in mid-November. You know, like pre- Thanksgiving. But usually, you know, after Thanksgiving is when a lot of places start posting their lists.

So I thought we could talk for a minute about album of the year prognostication. You know, this is us bringing the sports cast concept into indie cast. Because I want to talk about albums like their teams. here. And just to be clear, I'm not talking about the albums that you and I like, the albums that we think are going to be the best albums of the year. I'm talking about like critical consensus. Like when we get to the end of the year and my friend Rob Mitchum, he puts together his spreadsheet of all the year-end list and tabulates the comprehensive score of like what albums did the best, who's going to come out on top. And I want to talk about the overall favorites and

then indie favorites on those lists. Is it fair to say that Beyonce is the Houston Astros at this point? You know, because she's from Houston, so it works there too, but Houston Astros, of course, are in the World Series. It looks like they're going to win. I would expect them to win. They look dominant. Is it Beyonce's to lose?

I mean, who's going to challenge Beyonce for the number one critical consensus album of the year? Are there any serious challenges to her? I mean, please don't make me compare Taylor Swift to the Phillies. I mean, I was happy that you kind of avoided bringing up the Padres just getting absolutely smoked in this. Well, you know, hey, look, they had a good run. I think they're going to be good next year.

I'm becoming like a Padres fan. I'm a very casual baseball fan, but I like that team. But yeah, because am I right? I feel like Beyonce is almost a lock. Like if I was doing odds, I'd say she's like a three to one favorite to get on with the year. I don't really, I keep forgetting whether three to one or one to three is like the better one.

But if we are doing the off track betting, it does a bit remind me of baseball where like once the Dodgers and Mets and the Braves and the Yankees started losing, like a lot of mainstream like sportswriters were like getting super pissed about like how this doesn't represent. the best of baseball. I think this is, like, I think this is kind of the mirror image of that where, you know,

2000, 2021 was kind of, I guess, like a down year where, at least as far as like, you know, like instant classic slash like obvious chalk in the year end list. Like,

do you actually remember, like, do you actually remember what the number one album was, uh, for pitchfork? Uh, in 2021. No.

I, do not. What was it? Jasmine Sullivan, Hotels. Okay. What about Sallio Gum? Yeah, there wasn't a consensus. I mean, I think this year, you have Beyonce as the favorite. You know, the Rosalea record, that's the highest rated album on Metacritic right now.

I think that one's just kind of weird enough to like, you know, for places to put that at number one and feel pretty good about it, even though that one's also like super popular. So maybe that's the next contender. You have the weekend, which is my favorite big ticket pop record of the year. But that album came out in January. I just feel like that's too long ago. It's going to be in the running, but I feel like it's not going to have the heat of those first two records that we mentioned. Bad Bunny's got to be up there too. Yeah, okay.

So Bad Bunny will put him there. Would you say, okay, so we're going to say Beyonce number one, contender, Rosalia, a strong number two. Do you think Bad Bunny's at three? Absolutely. Three or two, because that one just super fucking popular, really critically acclaimed. I mean, like, we could literally see like an all pop star top five. Well, that's how we've been trending now for a while. I mean, you know, the circling back to our conversation before about Taylor's

Swift being perceived as as underdog in critical circles, that's a total load of horse manure at this point. I mean, we're well beyond the pitchfork not reviewing 1989 era by now.

And again, I think the weekend, I think those three seem like the strongest. I think the weekend is a notch below, even though, again, that's my favorite of those albums. You got the Harry Styles record. Can't count him out.

It's been well reviewed. I do feel like there's enough people who feel like that he's kind of mid. That he's not going to be number one. No. He might be top 10 at certain places, but not number one. I think Taylor Swift, too, you know, this record, we haven't really talked about the record. We're not going to review, we're not going to review Midnights. It's over-discussed at this point.

I'm not that interested in reviewing it. My perception of how this record has been received, I'll just say this isn't a review but I've listened to the record I like the record I think it's a pretty good record it's like a lesser 1989 is how I would describe it

it has the sound of 1989 without having like the obvious smashes that that that record had I feel like Midnights has already settled into like oh this is probably like a second tier Taylor Swift record like that doesn't seem like a serious album

of the year contender to me I think it'll get I think it'll be like top five in certain places. Like I don't see it getting out of the top five of Rolling Stone. Well, Rolling Stone will, and they'll probably put Harry Styles in the top five too. But so we're both saying we think Beyonce is a strong favorite for the album of the year. Absolutely. It's got the right combination of popularity, like political timeliness.

And yeah, I think what we're going to see this year is that. this kind of alignment of how like wow like the pop like pop like the biggest artists on the planet are also making the best music how great you know like and i think this is where like sports and music criticism are just like incompatible because there's so much back padding that goes along with these year end lists like we finally toppled our our are the hegemony of like having the national be album of the year which like never really happened happened. I mean, right. Like, but, uh, you know, this get, this gives the sense that like, music really is sports and that these, you know, people overcame the odds and showed their

excellence. But in reality, like critics sometimes forget that we're the ones making the lists, you know, I think this kind of happened with, you know, pitchfork's 90s listed as well, as well, where it was just seen as like a triumph when in reality, it's like, no, the, it was just a very different, a very different subset of people made. the list compared to the ones who did it in 2003. Like, we do have much more control over it than it comes across. Yeah, I mean, going back to your music and sports analogy, it'd be like if all sports writers just loved the New York Yankees.

Well. And they all loved, which a lot of them do, but like, or they all love the Dodgers. Yeah. You know, even people in San Diego in Philadelphia, they'd be like, no, we like the Dodgers. We like the Yankees. The richest teams are the best teams. And look, they often are.

There are records in this class that I really love. Again, the weekend record is going to be in my top five. I'm pretty sure. I think that's a great record. And I think the Beyonce record is really good. These are all, they're good records. But yeah, the idea that we have to correct the record now to properly recognize pop music,

that just seems like such an outdated idea at this point to a ridiculous degree. Well, let's talk about the indie albums of the year. Like, the album that's going to end up at number six or seven on the Rolling Stone list. What do you think that album will be? Like, what is the consensus favorite indie album of 2022? Well, I think that in kind of in line with, you know, the pop dominance of year end list, which I anticipate, I think the highest ranking indie album on the year on list is going to be the most popular one,

which is Wet Leg. Yes. That one's going to show up on every single one. Yeah, I agree. Probably top 10. Yeah, I totally agree. They're like the new Heim, you know, basically at this point, like how Heim is the go-to indie band for like pop-leaning critics. I think Wet Leg absolutely is going to be.

I think Wet Leg, they have a pretty, wide constituency where you have the pop fans that like them. You also have like 50 year old guys who love Wetleg. That's the band from like the middle-aged dude indie community that I've heard the most about. Like, have you heard this band Wet Leg? They're so fun. Yeah. So they're covering all the bases.

It's interesting about Big Thief where their record, I think that came out in February. So that was a while ago now. very acclaimed I was among the people who love that record that's going to be a high ranking record for me I feel like there was like a backlash against Big Thief as the year went on and you had the issue with them booking a show in Israel

that was controversial but I think even more than that there's like the broification of Big Thief if we remember that narrative How could I forget? I think that's a legitimate I don't think it's a legitimate point

I think it's a legitimate sort of backlash. I think there are people who are a little hostile to Big Thief because there's a perception that like a certain kind of guy likes Big Thief or a certain kind of indie fan likes Big Thief. And there's also the fact that they wear like baggy clothes and huge hats and stuff, like all these superficial things that work against them. So I would have thought they'd be a lock early in the year. but I don't think that they are now. I feel like there's going to be people who just flat out ignore that record out of principle, along with the people who love it.

Yeah. Am I right on that? I think that their star has, I don't know, fall in a little bit, like, not in the sense that, like, you know, they've taken, like, a real hit as far as touring or whatever, but I don't think it's going to have the same momentum going into, I mean, like, it's not reflector.

You know, if we're going to bring up, like, a double album I mean, I think people, I mean, it's a great record. No, it's great. I listened to it just the other day because, like, I'm in, you know, reviewing for year-end mode. And, yeah, like, there are parts where like, maybe it's been overrated, maybe it needs to be, nah, this is a good record. Yeah, I mean, look, there's people who don't like Adrian Linker's voice, so you have that aspect. But I really feel like with Big Thief, it's not really about the music.

It's about the stuff around the music. Oh, absolutely. That turns people off. But, like, the music itself, I mean, I think that they're a really good band. But they're going to be on Eron list, but I don't think that they were, like, I would have thought they were a lock. I thought, like, when that record came out, to me, it sounded like, this is an instant classic. This is going to be a big record at the end of the year. And now I'm not quite so sure.

I think in some places it will be and some places it won't be. I think on the indie pecking order, it might be behind wet leg and maybe even always who were riding more momentum at this time. and are more likable in many, many ways. Yeah, always, you know, again, you have the record that comes out in October versus the record that comes out in February. And people are listening to Blue Rev a lot at this time of the year. It's going to be fresher in people's minds. I know you've compared them to spoon in the past in terms of just their consistency

and like how people in the music writing community, I think, regard them as like a reliable rock band. Yeah. You know, like they're, they're, they're the rock band that doesn't reinvent the wheel, but they're so good at what they do that you have to give them their props. Like, I don't expect always to top any lists, but I think that they'll be on almost every list. Yeah, they're going to accumulate enough, like, you know, number three to number eight type votes where they're, like, going to just crash the top. Like, they're the great unifier.

There are two bad, there are two artists who I'm very curious. that like about their performance. The first of which is if you look at like album of the year and also Metacritic, the Black Country New Road album is like the highest of the year. I think like more than any highly acclaimed album, I think more people like absolutely and publicly hate this one than any other. Yeah, they're like the opposite of always in that I expect them to either top someone's list or not appear on it at all.

High variance here. Yeah, it's going to be, like, if you are in on that record, it's probably your favorite album of the year, or it's among your favorite albums of the year, or else you aren't into it at all. I'm somewhat in the middle. I know you love that record. That might be your favorite album of the year, right?

Yeah, it's definitely up there. And also the fact that, you know, the lead singers out of the band talk about, like, killing momentum. But they're still making great music. I saw them live. I think that maybe I honestly think that their next album might actually do better in the sense that

like it'll probably be more approachable to very divisive Isaac was very divisive as a vocalist and a lyricist. Yeah, that album's a little too much for me but I admire what it's doing. I like that there's a lot of ideas on that album even if from a sit down and listen to a record perspective it's not always my bag

that album. What was the other one you're curious? curious about. Kendrick Lamar. I think that this one's a real wild card. In a weird way, like the lack of, you know, damn or to pimp a butterfly type praise that greeted it might actually work in its favor because like a lot of people might be coming out of the woodworks to talk about it as like being misunderstood or underrated. Look, I listened to it again recently and it's everything I thought it was when I first heard it, which is like the first real miss of Kendrick Lamar's career. I don't enjoy, like, I think it's. there's some admirable qualities to it, but I don't enjoy listening to it very much. I think it's kind of odd that, like, maybe one of the most enduring songs is we cry together, which is like the five-minute, like, kind of skit where, you know, him and an actress yell at each other. Yeah, I don't know. That album, I mean, we should have put that in the first category with like the heavy hitters.

It is interesting to think of Kendrick Lamar putting out a record and it not automatically being an album of the candidate. But I don't think that album is necessarily. It's going to be on list, but I would be surprised if it topped like an institutional list. It may top some personal list, but I don't see it getting into that area. It'll be interesting to see in 10 years if that becomes a record that we see think pieces on.

Like, oh, they underrated this album in the moment, and we can now see that. It's a classic. It might age like that. But I think right now, I don't know if I would put it in competition with like the Beyonce's and Rosales of the world. No, but I think in 10 years, I think in 10 years there's going to be like more to explore with it than those records. So I think it's, yeah, I think it's all but guaranteed, especially when you consider the kind of type of person who like obsessively annotates Kendrick Lamar lyrics on genius.com. There is absolutely no doubt like that we are like not. It's like a matter of how many as opposed to if that happens.

Yeah, I'll be curious to read those pieces in 10 years. I'm going to be bookmarking my internet browser for a decade from now for those think pieces. I wanted to bring up three records in the indie world that I think they could be competitive in the album of the year sweepstakes. Sudan Archives currently is tied with Big Thief and Beyond. as the highest rated album from Pitchfork this year, got a 9.0. I think that record is going to get some love from like the sort of like RD R&B type fan base out there. I think if you have like sort of the eccentric R&B soul type artist, that is always critical catnip. You know, and it feels like that's that record this year.

So I think that record's going to do pretty well. Absolutely. It's weird to describe a Radiohead side project as a dark horse, but I really think that the smile record could get some love, maybe more love than you would expect on these year end list. It's really the most fun. I'm putting fun in quote marks record from the Radiohead camp, since arguably in rainbows, certainly like the most accessible.

and I think there's going to be a lot of people who, if they're not putting it at the top of the list, I could see them putting it high on a list. I wouldn't be shocked if that record ended up in the pitchfork top 10. I think it's possible. I also want to say, I think Barty Strange could also get some love on indie list.

I think his record, farm to table, was very critically acclaimed. and it's not going to get wet leg level love, but I think it's going to be in the conversation. And I could see it being one of the three or four indie records that ends up in like a Rolling Stone top 25. Yeah. And that's going to be the one that tops like say chorus.

com or like the alternative. Right. So I don't know. It'll be interesting to see. We'll have our own list on this. show, but that's our prognostication here. We're doing the power rankings. I feel pretty good about our choices. I don't think we've missed anything obvious, but we'll have to see if we did write us a letter, do your own odds making for the album of the year sweepstakes.

Let's get to King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard Wizard. As I said earlier, this band, they're from Australia. They've put out three albums in October. back on the 7th they put out a record called ice, death, planets, lungs, mushrooms, and lava. On the 12th, they put out a record called laminated denim. And today, or the day that this podcast posts, they have a record called Changes. They actually put out two albums earlier in 2022. There was a record called Made in Timeland, came out in March. And then in April, they put out a record.

And I got to see if I can pronounce this correctly. omnum gatherum. That sounds about right. Yeah, a very tool-sounding album title. So five albums so far in 2022, and the year isn't over. So there could be more to come from this band. They've put out 23 albums since 2012. And they've also put out 14 live albums.

And as that suggests, you know, obviously they're very prolific band in the studio. but they're also very well celebrated for their live show, possibly even more celebrated for their live show. I want to get your take on this because this is a band that I've been aware of probably for about five years, and I've always tried to get into them because on paper they seem like a perfect band for me because you've got the indie rock element of what they do,

but then you also have the jam band aspect of what they do. lot of improvisation live on their records. They play a lot of long songs. They have a habit of opening albums with like 18-minute songs. Just wild. But, you know, I would give them a chance and it never really connected with me. And what it was is that for the longest time, they were making records in that like O.C's zone. You know, that band the OCs, a band that I like, especially live.

but on record it can get a little wearying because it's basically this very hyper-kinetic garage rock sort of like a hawkwind type sound but grittier and more garage rock-like and I just felt like the records that I heard from King Gizzard they just weren't that memorable like I liked the idea of what they were doing but the songwriting didn't really seem like it was there

what's been interesting about the records that they've put out recently, and this is going back into 2021 too, they really have become a full-on jam band. They sound, to me, a lot like Goose, a band that I've talked about on the show, probably the biggest young band in the jam-band world. And King Gizzard at this point, they're sort of like a more Crout Rock version of what Goose does.

It's a little harder, a little bit harder, a little faster, a little more spacey maybe, but sonically in the same realm. And I have to say I really like that turn for them. You know, there's a song on their record from earlier this month, the Ice Lungs Yada Yada Yada Yada Yada record called Iron Lung. And it's a nine-minute song, and it's basically a fish song.

It sounds a lot like fish. And it's funny to me because I read articles about King Gizzard. And you can tell when the writer doesn't like jam bands because they will not talk about jam bands in the context of King Gizzard. They'll reference every other kind of music

but not talk about jam bands when I think it's clear that I don't know if they're influenced by jam bands but they are sonically similar to what a lot of those bands are doing. And they've been embraced in that world. You know, there was a... They recently played Red Rocks in Colorado

and that was a big deal on nugs.net. They streamed that show. If you go on the Relisten app, which is an app, it's basically like Spotify for streaming bootleg concerts that are on the Live Archive website. On the main page,

there's the featured artists, and the featured artists right now are the Grateful Dead, Fish, and King Gizzard. Like, King Gizzard is the third band now that's featured. So there's definitely a big jam band constituency, but there's also a big indie band

or indie fans constituency with them and they just feel like they're the kings right now of indie jam and I'm glad that I'm finally on board but I think it took for it took for them to take a turn

to just become a full-on jam band I think they are now not just jamming but they've taken out a lot of the aesthetics of that scene and I just had a monologue about this band I want to stop talking now

because I'm curious what you think of this band because especially now, they're totally up my alley. Do you feel anything for this band at all? You know, kind of prior to this episode and, like, you know, giving a, you know, honest effort to take in these three records as a whole, they're kind of like the embodiment of like that meme. I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for you, though, or sorry that happened.

Like, I mean, I'm like, just fascinated with their existence because as I'm fascinated by like any. sort of band like guitar-based band that thrives outside of the critical like sphere. I mean, what these, what this band does is like they tie together like three really fascinating threads of music that seem to be pretty much impervious to trends or a critical favor. The first of which you mentioned is like the OCs, Thai Segal type psych rock. Then there's like the jam band element. And like what they were, maybe it's just the fact that I'm reading Rap Capital, which is that

new book about Atlanta hip hop. But they remind me of like how a lot of rappers just like flood the market. And, you know, this book, Rap Capital talks about like how in, you know, post outcast Atlanta, it was not, it was more just about like get stuff on streaming, get stuff out there as opposed to like, you know, trying to craft like a stankoni or an equimini type classic. You know, the amount of music that's out there is like at the same time like both really accessible and just like mind-blowingly intimidating because there's always new music. Like you, there's no time to just like not jump right in.

It's like this like really fast-going carousel where you can just like hop right on and try to take that ride. I mean, I think that you, you know, you compare this in your notes to like kind of like a, I love this comparison of like a TV show like that you hear so much about where it's like eight seasons will accumulate on like Netflix and you'll hear no, man. Like it really gets good at season two. Exactly, yeah. You always hear that.

Or, you know, you got to watch six episodes, but then it really starts to take off. But yeah, you have to wait through like six hours of boring TV to get to the good stuff. Yeah, there is an element, certainly, I think, of that with King Gizzard. Yeah. And to me, it's also like, but no, besides that, you also have to listen to the podcasts and, like, read the message boards. Like, you know, because the albums, as many as there are, it's like, oh, but you got to hear him live, which I found it funny that you mentioned Iron Lung. It's like the fish song because the one right before it, mycelium, which they, I think that's how you pronounce it. They say it like a hundred times on that.

I'm like, as someone who doesn't listen to fish, I'm like, this is what fish sounds like, right? you know um but they do kind of take the jam band sound efficient to like more of a uh kraut rock slash like psych rock slash desert days type um sound i think that there to desert days perhaps what like my morning jacket was for bonneroo in that they're they're like almost kind of an emblem of like this uh pretty massive swath of music listeners that aren't really catered to, at least in the critical sphere, like compared to like a lot of the bands that we talk about here on Indycast,

like I could probably think of many more in real life friends that I have who like this band compared to say always. You know, respect to always, but it's just like this tends to be like in real life boots on the ground type music. Yeah, I think that the common thread, like when we talk about

you know, going beyond just the desert day, thing talking about rock bands in recent years that have made like real inroads and building an audience. And you can go beyond talking about a jammy band like King Gizzard to, you know, bands like idols or turn style. The common thread is that they all have a kick-ass live show, you know, and that's the reason why they're really popular. You know, even turnstile who, you know, a lot of people like that last turnstile record, but I feel like their popularity has at least as much to do with people posting videos of turnstile concerts on social media. And you see those clips and like the audience is going ape shit.

You know, the band is like really energetic. And it just looks like something, it looks like a show. It looks like something you want to go pay your money to go see on a given night. And with King Gizzard, you know, you talk about all the albums that they put out. And I don't think that they've made like a masterpiece yet. I will say I think the records that they've made this year are among the best ones that I've heard. I mean, I can't claim I've listened to all 23 King Gizzard albums. But I do think, for instance, that the record that came out in April, that Omnium Gatherum is probably their best record that they've put out so far.

Although I am a fan of Ice Death, Planet's Lungs, Mushrooms, and Lava. Talk about album titles that I'll never remember. That's one of them. I'll just call it Ice Death, yada, yada, yada. But it's always going to come back to the live show with King Gizzard. You know, it's interesting. I was looking at their Spotify numbers, and I don't think that they have a song. Well, they have one song that has three million streams, another song that has 1.8.

Okay, so they have some songs that are in the millions of streams, but their streaming numbers do not reflect the venues that they play at. You know, you would think from looking at their streaming numbers that they'd be playing, clubs and not headlining red rocks. But the reason is is that there's, the main focus I think of what they do is what they do live. And that is going to enable them to move forward in their career. I think more than any one album, I'd be surprised if there's like an album that becomes like the crossover with them.

I think it really is more about the forward motion. I mean, having said that, I will say again, I think that they are improving. might be working towards that, but I don't know. Just because of the frequency with which they put out records, it seems unlikely that there's going to be a record that becomes the one that everyone feels like they need to listen to. It's going to be more about the accumulation of music and then going to see them live. I wonder if there is going to come a point where they just become so popular like that, you kind of just have to choose a record.

It's like, yeah, we're just going to get behind that one. Like, let's just put our stamp on this one, just to say, Just to say that we did it, you know? I think it's more likely that people will be like, this show is my favorite. Right. You know, in the jam band way. Like, I mean, like the Red Rocks show,

I think I'm trying to, I should look this up quick. I don't know if they played more than one show at Red Rocks or if it was just one gig. I'm Googling this now. I think there was, well, let's see, they played there this month. Looks like they're playing it again next month too. So they're playing Red Rocks in two consecutive months.

So two shows, headline shows, one month apart. Yeah, that's next week that they're going to be playing there again on November 2nd. You know, I know that first show is very well regarded and people will be like, oh yeah, Red Rock's 2022. You know, that's the go-to King Gizzard music. Yeah, I could see that happen. maybe more than an album being the calling card for them. Yeah. When we eventually either pivot to sports cast, TV cast, or Gizzard cast, you know, in the next

couple years, we'll figure that one out. All right. We now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, want you to go first? So something I've gotten into this week as we kind of pivot more towards year-end list compilation. I went back and listened to the Sam Precop, John McIntyre album called Sons of. That one came out a few months ago and it was like kind of acclaimed in its circles. But, you know, when I first

heard about it, like I just kind of assumed it was, you know, because when it's like four songs, 57 minutes, I just assume it's like a bunch of like analog synth improvisation. That's just kind of interesting if you're into like analog synths. But it turns out, that it's actually really melodic and really, like, rhythmic and dancing. It was a lot more indie dance or, you know, kind of, like, lo-fi house than I expected. And just a really enjoyable record that I was really surprised by. And that's kind of how it is with these two particular artists. If you recognize those names, they're big figures in Chicago Post Rock from the 90s with, like, C.

and Cake and John McIntyre with, like, all the production. he does with tortoise. You know, this is the kind of music that just kind of based on what I usually talk about recommendation corner, like Chicago Post Rock would probably be like the last thing I would expect to like. But, man, I just always love this stuff when I hear it, particularly like tortoise, TNT, like, seeing cake type stuff, gastro del soul. I don't know.

I don't know if I may have, like, hated this stuff if I were actually like a 24th. five-year-old indie person in the 90s, but this is, like this alongside like 90s IDM is always the style of music that I can go back to whenever I don't know what I want to listen to. Well, that sounds like a cool record. I want to check that out.

I think you'll like it. Yeah, it sounds like I will. I want to talk about a record called out of body. It's by a, I'll call them a band. It's called Daisy, D-A-Z-Y. It's a project spearheaded by, a Virginia bass singer-songwriter named James Goodson. Out of Body is his debut full-length record.

And it's super fun and very catchy. It breezes by in 26 minutes. As soon as it's over, you want to put it on again. I feel like this record will be classified as bedroom pop, but there's a hugeness to this record that I think belies that classification. In my mind, I'm thinking of it, like early car seat headrest if it had been produced by Mutt Lang. It just has like that kind of sheen to it. It's very bright.

Again, the hooks are, you know, they're buffed to a high gloss, but it still has that kind of gritty homemade sound to it. It's a really interesting juxtaposition. And I think it adds a lot to the songs. So, yeah, you know, again, like, This is a record that I think you can put on, enjoy it immediately. It goes by in less than a half hour, and once it's over, you want to put it on again.

So I've been listening to this record a lot. I think it's really good. It's called Out of Body. Out of Body is all one word. And again, it's Daisy, D-A-Z-Y. Definitely go check them out this week. I have to say too quick that I wrote a big, big feature this week, a list of my favorite Weezer songs.

I feel like that is relevant to the interests of the people who listen to the show. So if you want to read that article, go to Uprocks, and you can ingest 7,400 words of Weezer analysis into your veins this weekend. Yeah, it's the King Gizzard and Lizard Wizard release slate of, like, lists. There you go, absolutely. Well, thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.