Indiecast - Kurt Vile, 100 Gecs, BTS vs. Built To Spill, And An Indie Rock Twitter Skirmish

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

Despite his prolific releases, Kurt Vile has oftentimes been pinned with a slacker reputation. Maybe it's his "chill dude" persona or his wandering ballads, but on Vile's latest album Watch My Moves, the former War On Drugs guitarist proves his music has evolved over the last few years. On the latest episode of Indiecast, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen share their thoughts about Watch My Moves (35:12), Vile's latest effort since 2018.This week in indie music also saw some great new releases and some Twitter faux pas. The Conor Oberst/Phoebe Bridgers supergroup Better Oblivion Community Center sent a very snarky tweet at musician Kississippi, calling her music "boring" in response to a very mild joke about Oberst's shoes. Steven and Ian discuss the blowback (6:18) and reminisce on times they learned the hard way that everything on the internet is permanent. Indiecast also delves into Built To Spill's latest album When The Wind Forgets Your Name (1:48), the return of 100 Gecs, and wonder if the hyperpop duo sound a little too 2019 at this point (14:07).In this week's Recommendation Corner (48:09), Ian shows love to Prince Daddy & The Hyena, whose self-titled album is out today. Meanwhile, Steven spotlights Wet Tuna's third studio album Warping All By Yourself, which veers into '70s funk and jazz fusion territory.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 85 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review the new album by Kurt Vile. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He was the first person ever to make a BTS built-to-spill joke. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Yeah, I'm also the first person to propose the Jimmy World Gang of Youth's Jew Goi Tour. or just to bring, you know, it's funny because Jimmy E. World has no Jewish people in. And I think Dave from Gang of Youth is kind of Jewish. So it's kind of ironic, those two have those names. See, I feel like you could make that joke. I can. I don't think I would feel comfortable even, like if that was a tour.

I don't know if I would be comfortable just saying the name of the tour. Yeah. As a Gentile. I feel like I would need to be respectful of my Jewish brothers and sisters and not referenced that. But that would be a great tour, even the comedy aspect. Yeah, absolutely. It's better that than like the acronym you get from the Jimmy E World Saves the Day tour.

So, yeah, I mean, I'm sort of just, I'm hoping that, you know, maybe there's like a K-pop mastermind who's, or maybe just like a movie where they make another boy band with like, you know, a name like YLT or GGBV. just to really push the envelope of like enervating like 45-year-old indie dudes. That would be amazing if there was a K-pop group called GBV. My head would explode. You know, we're talking about Built to Spill because they have a new album that they announced this week as all of the 36 to 45-year-old indie fan community. You already know that there was like a,

there was an alarm that went off in all of your homes. the new record is called When the Wind Forgets Your Name It's out in September Which you know Look, look, Bill to Spill They're

I think we would both agree They're one of the all-time greats We love them I don't know I feel like I dabble In whatever new albums they put out And I always enjoy them But then I don't revisit them

But I'm glad they're making records I'm glad they're on the road They're always a good live band But I have to say that The Most Enjoyment I get out of Built the Spillard spill these days is the BTS built-to-spill jokes

which is I think the ultimate indie dad joke. Oh yeah. It's the greatest indie dad joke of all time. I laugh every single time someone makes a BTS built-to-spill joke like when BTS had their own McDonald's meal. I don't know if you remember that. I do.

They had their own meal and people were like, you know, this meal is perfect from now on. Oh, God. And, you know, big news for Doug Marsh. I laughed at every single one of those tweets. I think I made my own BTLs. B. T.S. B.T. Silt. B. It's just a simple pleasure of life. I, I joked about this week that when I'm on my deathbed, about to leave this mortal coil, I will be making a BTSB built

to spill joke. It will be my dying words. I'm going to die as I live. Making a BTA. Hopefully that's many years from now, but I look forward to that. I don't know. I just enjoy it. I enjoy it thoroughly. I hope it's not annoying to people. But come on, you can't be Just the idea of conflating Doug Marsh with hyper popular K-pop, I think is just comedy gold. Yeah, it's a more advanced version of like the Postal Service, like getting sued by USPS because like, oh yeah, I can't, can't recall how many times, like I wanted to send something through the mail and it ended up in Ben Gibber's hands. But yeah, I mean, I thought we were just talking about like Bill to Spill at the top of the episode because like you said, we're 36 to 45 year old men. And, like, you know, you get a couple of indie-leaning people in that demographic together.

And, like, within the first five minutes, they're going to talk about, like, the time they, like, first heard Carrie the Zero in college. But that's true. That's true. I mean, this is, like, a big news in our community. Yeah. I mean, that's the other reason to lead with this is that built a spill record in the Indycast world is a bigger story for us than it would be maybe an other, you know, music podcasts. That's right, baby. My favorite little detail about this, you know, this new album.

album. You know, besides the fact, you know, the song's kind of interesting. It's like what I imagine the lemon twigs sounding like. It's kind of loud and glammy. There's a, there are two songs called Rock Steady and Spiderweb on there, and they're back to back. And I think this is just indicative of like Bill to Spill kind of existing in this, as this satellite from pop culture that they probably don't recognize that they have like two no doubt references back to back on the album. Yeah, you know, one of us needs to interview Doug Marsh to ask him about this. I want to ask him about the BTS thing. He should be asked

about the no doubt thing because that seems like it's such a weird coincidence that that would happen. But I also can't imagine Doug Marsh ever listening to No Doubt You know, like if he... Does he have kids? I mean, maybe in the car, I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I

Do you think like when he was trying to make perfect from now on that he like threw on tragic kingdom as inspiration, you know, that I'm looking for something. that will guide me on this record. You know, let's throw on tragic kingdom. Yeah, he seemed to be more of a return to Saturn type guy.

Do they have an album called Rocksteady? Is that the one from the other than... Yes, they do. That's the one with Hey Baby on there, which is like... One of the words songs. I hate that. Like, I think I brought that up during our previous episode where we talked about like our least favorite songs of all time.

But yeah, rock steady was... That was like kind of the bridge to Gwen Stefani's solo career. Right, because like, Hollaback Girl is solo line, right? Hollow Back Girl is indeed solo. Underneath at all is no doubt. That's a pretty decent song. Well, like Hallibat Girl, I like that song. That's the Neptunes, right?

The Neptunes did that. I think so, yeah. Or, like, Farrell, I think it's on that song. Yeah, that makes sense. We need to talk about the indie feud of the week, which I think it's more of like a skirmish. Yeah, it's like her fluffle. But it's between. Kississippi, who is a Philadelphia-based singer-songwriter,

and Better Oblivion Community Center, the supergroup of Connor Oberst and Phoebe Bridgers, who I wonder, are they making a record? Is this part of their promotion that there was a little clapback? Because they hadn't tweeted, I think, from that account. Since 2020. Two years. Yeah.

Until this week, because Mississippi, I'm going to cue this up here. This is from Friend of the Podcast, Miranda. over at Endless Scroll, the other indie rock podcast, the only other one. Because I think she screenshotted this, and it's how it came to my attention and probably a lot of people's attention. But Mississippi tweeted this week, can someone please tell Connor Oberst to stop wearing skate shoes? Which I wonder, like, what inspired that initial tweet?

Yeah. I didn't even know that was a thing. This guy made lifted. Let him wear whatever shoes he wants. You know what I mean? Does he wear it? I've never looked at Connor Ober's feet. So I wasn't aware of his shoes.

That's just me, though. I'm not very fashion conscious. I guess some people would notice that. But is that something he was known for wearing skate shoes? I have no. I consider myself like a pretty adroit scholar of the Connor Oberst world, like up to and including his dress code. And I've never known Connor Oberst to be particularly drawn to skate shoes.

I wouldn't even know how to recognize skate shoes. So maybe I'm the wrong person to ask here. I mean, this is why Elon Musk is trying to buy Twitter for $41 billion because of random thoughts like this. I mean, I've had random thoughts like this too. Yeah. You have a thought that comes in your head and you just tweet it. I just wonder like what led to the thought of I'm really irritated that Connor Oberst wear skate shoes. Or just bemused that Connor Oberst is wearing skate shoes.

I don't know. He's a 41 year old guy. I mean, like, come on. Yeah, I mean, look. Or 42, sorry. Connor Oberst, I, you know, I've never talked to him. I don't know him that well, but, you know, as I'm around his age, and I feel like we have a similar fashion sense where we, we decided how we were going to dress when we were about 18 years old, and we haven't really changed. Like, we kind of wear the same clothes forever. Like, I'm wearing jeans and, like, band t-shirts all the time. And, you know, Connor Oberst is in a career where you can do that, and I'm in a career, fortunately, where you can get away with that. So he probably wore skate shoes. in the 90s and he's still wearing him now because it's like, who cares? I like them.

I'm not going to change all that much. So anyway, this is like kind of a weird tweet, but it's an innocuous tweet. Then Better Oblivion Community Seder. Someone who's operating that. We don't know who. That's like part of the conspiracy theory of this. We don't know who said this, but they tweet back. Can someone please tell Kissy bitch their words, not mine.

Yeah. To please stop making shitty songs. It's boring. Word. Spelled W-E-R-D, right? Yes. And then P-S, they're not skate shoes. They're not skate shoes.

They're Y-3s. Fuck you. Hell yeah. What are Y-3s? They're apparently a type of skate shoe. Or no, hold on. They are, I'm just going to look this shit up. They cost about $250.

They're Yogi Yamamoto, one of Adidas, shoes. Yeah. I don't know. These are kind of six shoes. I'm not going to front. They're also $300. So.

Okay. So takes a shot at Mississippi's songwriting and then does the post script to clarify these aren't just

regular skate shoes. They're very expensive and fashionable shoes. And then you add the fuck you at the end. Yeah. Not a good look. Not a good look.

Punishment does not fit the crime. And, you know, like, when this broke on Twitter, this skirmish, there were people who assumed that it was Conor Oversed. Which doesn't make any sense. Well, I mean, it kind of does because you think, like, they're making fun of Connor Overs directly. And Conner Overs has a history of kind of erratic behavior. Yeah, but he doesn't strike me as a Twitter guy. No, I've interviewed him. I've taught, like, I've interviewed him.

I've read interviews, and, you know, people I know who are just kind of, in the Connor Oberst orbit. Pretty much, like, giving me the impression that this guy does not know how to use Twitter. No, no. And, so, and I also don't think he would say kissy bitch. Yeah. It doesn't seem like he would demean a woman that way. It strikes me as something that a woman would say to a woman.

Huh. More than a man to, or these kind of oberts to a woman. People also thought that it might have been, like, Phoebe Bridgers kind of going under cover. So that was. That's the next, that's the nexus. Yeah. So if you're going to rule out counter. which I think we are.

Yeah. Let's rule him out. So it'd be Phoebe Bridgers. But I also feel like, you know, she's pretty savvy with social media. It doesn't seem like she would do something like this either. It's a real punching down sort of thing. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, not, I think that, like, Mississippi is not like, is similar enough, at least

to have, like, maybe a little bit of an overlap of fan base with Phoebe Bridgers. But I don't know. Phoebe Bridges is also, like, friends with everyone. So I imagine that, like, this is a little. a character, although it would be kind of not interesting. Like, I don't, like, it would just be kind of out of character in a way that would be intriguing for our purposes if Phoebe Bridger started beefing with other artists. Yeah, I mean, she's, you know, she's taking shots of people like David Crosby.

Yeah, exactly. On Twitter, which, you know, she's been more famous to David Crosby at this point, but that does feel more like, yeah. Yeah, exactly, like these old white guys, you know, who are very easy targets. You can, you can pants them on Twitter. And everyone's going to enjoy it. But going after, like, another female artist who isn't as popular as you, I don't think she would do that. So that means that there is a rogue actor in the Better Oblivion Community Center community,

lashing out of people. And apparently this was, like, early in the morning or really late at night. Yeah, like first thing Monday morning, that's why I woke up to. I think it was like 5 a.m. Pacific time or something. So either someone had just woken up or they were having a really. crazy night and where maybe, you know, maybe they should have been in bed. Yeah. One of the two.

So, again, this is a skirmish, not a full-fledged feud. I think I can say that, having written a book about musical rivalries. Unless, again, you know, maybe this kicks off some sort of extended animosity. And this, maybe this will be the thing that really breaks Kississippi. Yeah. You know, like, this is, this will be, you know, the entree into the mainstream. Yeah. Yeah.

Mississippi has been looking for. Yeah, I don't know. I've like kind of heard like low key. This might have been like Conor O versus like girlfriend tweeting, which I mean, do you want, would you want like your, like, A, would you give your wife your Twitter password and B, like would you want her like coming to your defense if I don't know what some musicians started like clapping at you? Probably not, but I think my wife would be a lot smarter about social media use than I am. I think it would I think it would actually be worse in the reverse if I had control of her social media and I was responding to her haters, although she doesn't have any haters. I have all the haters. She has no haters. But anyway, I think she'd be more responsible than me.

Yeah. Let's talk about the new 100 gecks. Yeah, but we were like gradually going from like old men stuff, like build to spill to like kind of quasi like Gen Z, Phoebe Bridger stuff. And now 100 geeks. we are Benjamin buttoning this episode. Yeah, their new singles called Doritos and Fritos. I like both those. And was there a new album announced with this, or is it just like a standalone single?

I feel as if this album, I'm told it's from the album, a thousand or 10,000 gex, whatever it's called. I don't think there's a release date set for it, but I mean, there's already been, like, you know, big cover stories on it. And so this album exists. When it's coming, I don't know. But I would imagine by the end of this year. Yeah. And what do you think is the status of this group right now? Because I guess they first emerged.

It was before the lockdown. It was 2019. So we're three years out now of them being a phenomenon, which is kind of weird. I mean, you know, the lockdown years, I don't know if those are less than normal years or like more than normal years. It's such like a weird twilight zone, you know, that period of time. But is it fair to say that, like, Like, this group already feels kind of dated. Yeah.

In a way, I feel like they were so of their moment. And we've moved on from that moment. Or are we still in that moment? I don't know. Yeah. It reminds me of that, like, drill tweet about, you know, turning a big dial that says racism on it for audience approval. Like, often gets attributed to, like, the Democratic Party.

But, yeah, I sense with, like, this group and music writers that they, no one really quite knows where to land on. them right now because, you know, I think there's a bit of a makeup call that needs, that needed to happen because they, you know, explode in 2019. I think they're very much a definitive artist from that era. And also just because of the nature of the music they make, which is like kind of crazy mashup, pre hyper pop that they already seem like, they're like a classic rock band in the hyper, in the hyper, in the hyper pop community. And I think that no one is quite sure whether to like say to like establish them as this like generational act or a band that seems a little bit dated but yeah because they seem

like a group where being dated is like baked into what they do i mean because just that scene it's so constantly changing yeah it's and being a legacy act almost seems antithetical to the kind of music that they make it's you know that you should just appear and then disappear yeah if you are sort of a pure version of this you know i was thinking you know when you know when we were going to talk about 100 geeks. I started thinking about Scrillix. Oh. The Scrilix phenomenon, which was about 10 years ago at this point.

And, like, how, you know, there was a period of time, like, where Scrillix and Dubstep, that was going to change music forever. Like, that was the discourse in music criticism. And what happened was, is that the influence of Dubstep was just absorbed into pop music. It became something else that pop could draw on. And it made a lot of the... dubstep redundant or at least it didn't seem like its own discernible genre and I'm sure if there's any dubstep heads out there they probably think I'm full of shit right now you could tell me I'm wrong in the emails in our mailbag but I mean that's just my sense as like a casual observer

and like where is scrylix by the way is he like on a beach somewhere just chilling because he made a bunch of money and uh or is he like is he doing private show I've not heard anything from him in a while I don't know maybe he's like preparing for his like Rick Rubin like American recordings type type deal but you know he's gonna do like he's gonna do like a strip down acoustic record like machine gun Kelly

or something like wouldn't you know you brought up SkrillX to me like this new this second album of 100 Gex reminds me of like the second girl talk album where it was still like pretty good but again

it's this whole thing about like laundering quote uncool influences for people who would otherwise like not touch that stuff with a with a 10 foot pole and you know the my issue with this is that it just seems very difficult to find people who are like enjoying it for what it is there just seems to be like this like horse race kind of writing that goes on where you try to like prognosticate trends as opposed to like taking the music as opposed to hashing out trends yeah we're into hashing out trends that means like the trend like you can hash it out in the present not going forward yeah exactly the difference is that we are hashing out the trends that have arrived whereas prognit the the prognostication

that you're talking about that's like predicting what is going to be big yeah the jimithification of music if you will yes and that's my least favorite form yeah of music writing you know that's how you end up with like the new york times doing profiles of like country music's next emo rap star yeah you know Like, who was that, by the way? Jimith. Is that Jimith? No, that wasn't Jimithy. Jimithy is British.

I don't think he's country music. It was somebody else. But, like, you know, you're going to Google that? Yeah, Kid G. Kid G. Yeah, kid G. You end up with stuff like that where you're just looking for, like, the most sort of novelty thing you can find.

And that's going to be the thing that changes music. And I think in reality, like music actually doesn't change that much. No. as much as we think. I mean, there are these, again, novelty things that bubble up. But for the most part, I mean, people are looking for good songs played in a relatively straightforward kind of way. I mean, I feel like that is still the formula that most people respond to.

It's not something that is, you know, super high concept. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm curious. I mean, you know, I've enjoyed listening to 100 gecks in the past. but like you, I do tend to find that it's music that it seems to be discussed in terms of like what people think it will become rather than what it is, which is a really kind of weird thing or weird way to approach music. Let's get to our mailbag segment here. And we have a lot of emails in our mailbag. So we are doing two questions today or two letters today.

But keep the letters coming in. We're probably going to do an all mailbag episode. later this month because it gets a little lean on new releases going into April. So hit us up. We want to hear from you. Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Do you want to read our first? Yeah, I do as a matter of fact.

So this comes from Juan in Mexico City. Awesome. Yeah, originally from Nicaragua. Big fan of the podcast. This is Juan talking now. I still agree with Ian's take and the current pitchfork review about Kevin Parker being the most underrated base player of the 21st century. But anyway.

Wow. Wow, deep cut. Yeah, we can just stop right here. Now, his question is, what do you guys think about when people get scared or thrown off by screaming vocals? How long should that period be where you were like, I totally don't like this style of singing? And he wonders whether people should give it some time or what our process was for getting into screaming initially. Because when I was younger, it was not my thing. But now I listen to more stuff like that, i.e. the new soul glow, which is kind of like getting used to eating spicy food.

Oh, that's a good analogy from Juan. Juan, by the way, Mexico City, have we had a Mexico City listener yet? I don't know, but man, that's a... Might be the first one. Yeah, I was there a couple years ago. I fucking love that place. I got to get to Mexico City. It's awesome.

Everyone that I know who has been there says it's a great city and also maybe our first Nicaraguan letter writer. So thank you, Juan, for hooking us up. So he's asking about screaming vocals. Yeah. And he's probably asking like how we both feel about screaming vocals. And you could probably guess how we feel about it based on the kind of music that we write about and cover. So I don't know, do you want to break this down first?

Because I feel like you are probably the more screaming one of the two of us. Yeah, I mean, just by the nature of the music I review and listen to, I've developed a much bigger lexicon to describe screaming. because, you know, I'm like, you know, talking about like Bubba Gump shrimp. You know, there's black metal screaming, screamo screaming, which is a little more melodic. There's Hectoring, which is more of like a McClusky or pop sort of screaming. There's like the emo pop sort of screaming, but also revival. And then one of my favorites, which is the kind of screaming that indie bands do at one point.

And when they get popular, they stop doing that. You know, like the National, the Walkman on the rat. And I also like how Juan, compared it to spicy foods, because there is like kind of a Scoville scale where, like, you talk about, like, levels of spiciness. But, you know, like, I, as much as I love music that, you know, is fixates on screaming, I also understand why people don't like this. Anytime someone starts screaming, it just immediately limits the social utility of music. For example, like, I can't play it in the office, for sure. whenever I'm driving in the car with my wife, I have to like kind of pre-screen any mix I'm putting on

to see if there's any screaming on it because if not, like, Idlewild was a little too spicy for her taste and she'll admit that. So I get the P. I think you just have to kind of be in a mood for it because it enhances that mood rather than creates a mood. But the thing about it is that like for some people, it's just like, I don't think music should do this.

This is aggravating. for me if like I hear there's a certain type of like BB Bridgers knockoff slash MacDemarco knockoff type voice which to me is more like I got to turn this shit off right now aggravating to my ears and like anything off sunbather so I think it is a self-selecting sort of thing I can't tell anyone like hey you know try out maybe this kind of screaming like you know it's a level one and then maybe work your way up to you know

Orchid or things like that. Yeah, you know, for me, I will say that I've definitely lost tolerance for screaming vocals as I've gotten older, as one does. I think I hate to say it. Juan is different, though. Juan is saying that he's gotten more into it. Well, we don't know how old Juan is.

I mean, one might still be in his 20s or, I don't know if he's in his 40s or anything, but I've gotten a little less tolerant. And, you know, there's one band in particular who broke me. One band who broke Steve. And I'm not going to say who it is I don't want to take any shots at them

But they broke me Because a lot of screaming vocals And to me You know Screaming to me should be musical Like it shouldn't be a crutch Because you have a shitty voice Because I do think that there are screamers

Who actually have like really good voices And they have good screaming voices And it works well But I also think that there's bands Where the singer just has a shitty voice And I'm not just saying that they can't sing because there's a lot of singers I like who can't sing, but the singers I like who can't sing have a cool voice.

You know, I like the sound of their voice. You know, like Matt Berninger of the National. I don't know if he's like a great singer, but I like his voice. Nah, he's a great singer. But this one band of Ticka just broke me, and they're like in the sort of emo world. And it made it hard for me not to only like that band,

but like to like other bands of that ilk. Because it just, like, a lot of emo bands that I like now tend to have female singers who can actually sing. I mean, that's what I personally gravitate more to than like the sort of like Yelpie Hectorine male singers. I'm in a phase right now where that's not connecting with me. Maybe that will come back because I like that for a long time and not, but lately I just can't get into that. I tend to like, in terms of screaming vocals, the kind or the style that I like the most, because like you said, there's lots of different styles of screaming. I tend to like the more like atmospheric type screaming if that makes sense where it's almost like another instrument.

the music, which is how I would describe deaf heaven. You know, like, you reference sunbatheather, and I feel like the screaming on there, it's almost like another guitar in the mix of the music. And that, to me, is easier to get my head around than something that is maybe, like, screaming, like,

vocals, you know, that again, that more sort of hectoring type delivery, I think, gets on my nerves a little bit. But I'll say, you know, the thing was screaming, and there's no pun intended here, but, like, my problem with it tends to be that it's little one note, you know, not musically, but emotionally, you know, because you're conveying a really intense emotionalism with screaming. That's the point of it. Like, you're, you're expressing

extreme anger or extreme sadness or extreme whatever, and you're starting at 11. And to listen to a whole record of that, I think, can just be a little much. Like, I, I tend to prefer screaming when it's in the context of regular singing. So, like, you start quiet and then you scream. You get that sense of dynamics. A very obvious example is Kurt Cobain at the end of the unplugged record, you know, where did you sleep last night? When he screams at the end of that song, it's really powerful because he's singing so quietly at the beginning.

So I feel like that is the sweet spot for me. If you're going to scream, I also want to contrast with it. So it really hits hard. You know, if that makes sense. What am I to say? Because for me it's like, you know, that the chill voice is just like, Like it just does the same thing to me where it's just like, I can tune it out. You know what I mean?

Right. Yeah. And that's the other opposite of the extreme, that if it's someone who's just the chill thing, maybe that's a little boring. Or if I hear another 90s alt-rock type voice coming back, whether it's like quasi-third-eye blind or quasi-barucosalt, it's like, that to me is like, I'm just going to turn it off immediately. I mean, I think the the overall

overarching point here is that you just need a distinctive voice. Whether you're screaming or you're singing, if it's something that's distinctive and also musical, that's a sweet spot. And, you know, people, there are singers who scream, and it can be beautiful. You know, and there's other singers who scream and it's really annoying and you want to shut it off immediately. So, you know, that's the thing. So it's like any other kind of vocal. Let's get to our next letter here. This is is from J.T. in Wilmington, North Carolina.

And I'll read this one. He says, I'm a big fan of the pod and listen every Friday. Additionally, I've read Stevens' last three books and pre-ordered the Pearl Jam book. J.T., thank you for the plug. My book, Long Road, Pearl Jam, and the soundtrack of a generation out September 27th. You can pre-order now. I wanted to get your thoughts on the metal band Ghost. They are one of the most polarizing bands in the metal scene. And I don't believe I've heard them mentioned on the show. I don't think we've mentioned them either. No. I realize they aren't remotely indie, but they fall somewhere in between the peripheries of Ian Cohencore and Stephen Heidencore.

Their latest album in P-R-A, Impeerra, I-M-P-E-R-A, is basically a classic 80s rock album and seems to be getting positive reviews. What are your thoughts on the band's sound, imagery, and overall vibe? Thank you, J-T, for that letter. So he's asking us about Ghost. Have you listened to Ghost at all? they're they're kind of a blind spot for me i saw them one time live and it was like at two 30 in the afternoon at cochella like just a hundred degrees complete sunlight and they're up there and they're kind of like uh quasi satanic ritual garb like that's kind of their gimmick and i you know i'm say gimmick lovingly but um that you know i to kind of paraphrase most syslac i'm like a ghost

well-wisher and that i don't wish them any specific harm like i think it's good when rock bands are popular. And, you know, it's interesting to call them, like, polarizing because to me, they always give me the sense of being, like, one of those Grammy metal bands. You know what I mean? Where it's, like, Goheera and, like, Latter-day Mastodon and Slipknot, like, bands that are, like, 10 years in and super popular. And that's when they get their first nomination.

Then they get nominated for the next 20 years. There's, like, an air of, like, prestige to them in a weird way. So, I mean, I think a lot of musicians like them. and probably like radio programmers. Yeah. So I could see them being in that slot for sure. So it dawned to me, it's like I've never actually listened to them. Like I kind of have a sense of what they do.

So in the interest of, you know, because we do the legwork here at Indycast, I just went to Spotify, found some of their most popular songs, Gama Spin. Like, I mean, some of these songs have like 30 million, 100 million plays. And what surprised me is just how. I want to say melodic, but they just sound to me like a kind of a lame British new wave of heavy metal band. I mean, I'm not like an expert on like Judas Priest or Iron Maiden or any of those. But when you listen to it without the visual, you just understand like how important the visual is. Because it's not like the darkness where it's, you know, kind of like played up hair metal and there's like a real like, you know, a pop craftsmanship behind it.

It just sounds to me like something you would hear in like heavy metal parking lot. And I'm like, this is, like this will do nothing for me. You know what I mean? Like I don't mind. Like I have nothing against them because they're just so outside of my orbit. But like I don't hear this and think, oh yeah, people should listen to this aside from like the spectacle of their music. Yeah, you know, I actually disagree with you a little bit. I actually think they are like a pretty well-crafted.

melodic, and I'll say pop group. I think, you know, it's funny, like when J.T. wrote his email, he put the word metal in quote marks when describing Ghosts because I actually don't think they sound all that metal. There's songs that I've heard by Ghosts that almost remind me of like power pop with like slightly metal sounding guitars. Like the vocals are very, you know. Clean. Yeah, very clean and kind of, you know, I'm looking for the right word.

kind of sugary. They're very sweet-sounding vocals, very, again, melodic, hooks in the choruses. Some of the songs almost reminded me of, like, you know, like Cheap Trick albums from the 80s, more than like Iron Maiden or Jude's, and that's a compliment, by the way,

I love Cheap Trick, one of the great bands, certainly one of the great Midwestern bands of all time. So I think that's also a key to their popularity because they have the visual element that is very metal. But musically, it's actually, pretty accessible. You know, we were talking about screaming vocals before, you know, even compared to something

like Mastodon, like, Ghost is like way more melodic. Oh, absolutely. And way cleaner sounding than like any other kind of metal band that has any kind of traction, you know, in the scene today. Yeah. And, but I do think, you know, to your point, that the key to this band's popularity is their live show. And I remember I saw them, like a long time ago, probably about.

10 years ago when they were still playing venues. I think the room I was in held like a thousand people. So like a relatively small venue compared to what they play now. I don't know if they're, are they in arenas? I don't know if they're in arena. Maybe not arenas, but like the 2000, at least thousand cap rooms. Yeah, I would think they would be like two to five thousand. Yeah.

Venue. And they've opened a lot of, I know they've opened for like Metallica and, you know, they've opened for some like huge. I imagine the foo fighters would have, you know, back in the day would have. had them. This seems like a band that Dave Grohl would love on general principle. But, you know, I thought the live show was like a lot of fun. I mean, you know, the other thing about Ghost is that there is a sense of humor to them. They, there, there's something knowingly campy about how they present themselves. It's very theatrical.

And I agree that like, I think the records are, are pretty good, but if you can actually see them live, it just elevates it. And I think it makes it a lot more appealing. So, you know, To get back to the original question, like, I'm not a huge ghost fan, but I enjoyed seeing them live. And if someone gave me a ticket and wanted to go out on a Saturday night to see ghosts, I think that'd be a great time. So I would definitely be down to see them again. So, you know, salute to Ghost, like you, don't love you, but, you know. Glad you exist. So let's get to the meat of our episode here.

A big transition from Ghost to Kurt Vile. There's a new album out today. I've heard this described as the ninth Kurt Vile record, but that's if you count the Courtney Barnett album that he made in 2017, a lot of sea lice. I'm counting it as his eighth solo album because I feel like the Courtney Barnett thing, it's like a separate category.

But anyway, deep into Kurt Bile's career, it's called Watch My Moves. I did an interview with Kurt Bile this week that you can read on Uprox.com. We talked about this record, but it was a review your catalog column. So we talked about smoke ring for my halo, waking on a pretty days, childish prodigy, believe I'm going down, all the classics from the past.

And now he's with this record. And, you know, it was funny because you and I were talking this week about, you know, what we're going to talk about on the podcast. And you frame this as a comeback record for Kurt Weil, which I thought was interesting because I don't necessarily think of it as a comeback for him. But I understand what you mean because, you know, there was a time. in the mid-2010s, or maybe more early 2010s, like, where he was like a pretty big indie star. And now he's kind of drifted more into like sort of cult hero territory.

And I think that's been like a deliberate move. Yeah. I mean, I also think it's due to him, you know, being a singer-songwriter in his 40s. I mean, that's something that just happens to you as you get older. But he's moved in more, I think, in a more esoteric direction. I think when he rose to indie fame, it was because he was writing songs like Baby's Arms and Pretty Pimpin, waking on a pretty day,

songs that earned him comparisons to people like Tom Petty and Bruce Springsteen because they were these very hooky denim-clad, you know, rock singles that you could play over and over again and that get sick of. And he's not really writing those kinds of songs anymore. Which for some people might mean that they don't care about him as much. I feel differently about that. But I'm curious to get your thoughts on Viag. Because I feel like you've drifted away from Kurt Vile.

Yeah, because Kurt Vile's like always been Kurt Vile. And I think that's been, that was one of the through lines of the interview that you did. I just love how he like ends certain phrase like deep record. Or it's like this one's underrated in pitchfork terms. But yeah, back in the day, like I just assume maybe because of his name and the lo-fi nature of his music that he was just like kind of a kind of a J. retard sort of guy and you know that's the sort of music i care very little about but um with smoke ring for my halo uh yeah that that just hits the sweet spot for me because i think it's got some of the best guitar like if i was making a record i would point to that one and be like hey

that's the guitar sound i want and you're right in that it has his um sort of like chill dude but sort of Tom Petty, like, out of, like, man out of time type perspective, but in, like, pretty tight songs. And, you know, waking on a pretty days, took that to more expansive sounds. And, you know, I loved both of those records.

And maybe we've talked about this on previous ones, but believe I'm going down, I can't remember the last time a record came out from an artist that didn't, like, like, didn't just change the sound completely. but I just hated it so much compared to what came before. Like, I just had, like, this allergic reaction because, I don't know, maybe it was just, like, where I was at the time, but it felt like at that point,

it was, like, Kurt Vile, like, doing a caricature of Kurt Vile. Like, it just became, like, songs about the character of Kurt Vile rather than something that felt, like, as, I don't know, emotional or whatever. And then from that point, going forward, it was just like, I'm like, eh, I could take or leave it. But with this one, I mean, I call it a comeback in the sense that maybe is like a renewed interest in what's going on with him. But it's sort of like with Jack White and Father John Misty from the previous episode where

I don't see them as being a barometer for what's going on in indie rock as a whole. It's something I can take on its own terms. And I can come back with like maybe a refreshed interest. in Kurt Vyle's music. I mean, that's what I mean by comeback. Yeah, I know what you mean. You know, it's interesting because it's hard not to compare Kurt Vial to the war on drugs. Because obviously he was in the war on drugs.

Him and Adam, especially in the odds, they had a really strong friendship where they were influencing each other a lot. And, of course, Adam played on Smoke Ring for My Halo and Childish Prodigy. But that was around the point where they started to split off Because the War on Drugs started to catch on You know, the Slave Ambien came out that year And of course, lost in the dream a few years after that And they were off

And it's fascinating to compare the contrasting Approaches of Kurt Vile and Adam Granduccio Because Adam, with each War on Drugs record, It gets a little bit bigger sounding, a little bit slicker. You can see them really engaging with mainstream in a way that Kurt Vile seemed to be doing, or at least moving toward that, I think Believe I'm going down

was maybe his version of doing that. You know, that's the album that has Pretty Pimpin on it, which is still his biggest song. That album is like kind of popular for real. Yeah, and Pretty Pimpin is a song, like you will hear that in the CVS. That's like the one

song that's really broken through. But then the last two records, it really feels like he's deliberately moved away from. that. And I don't know if that has anything to do with him, you know, not wanting to be locked in into some sort of like industry role. I feel like it's not as premeditated as that. It just seems like he's lost interest maybe in writing those kind of, you know, concise jams that catch on. He's really drifted into this style where he favors like this kind of like minimalist

type of songwriting where it rides a groove for eight, nine, ten minutes. And it's not the same as waking on a pretty day, which had a lot of long songs on it. That was more of like a guitar record, and it felt more like a classic rock album in a lot of ways.

His latest records, like bottle it in and this new one, Watch My Moose, it doesn't sound like jazz, but it has a jazz-like feel to it. There's a lot of synths on it. Yeah. The vocals are, even for Kurt Weil, you know, it's not, it's a little more drifty.

It's a little more dreamy. And, you know, when I interviewed him, he talked about how he, he's anticipating people not really getting into this record right away. That you have to spend some time with it in order to, like, really kind of wrap your head around it. And it's also 75 minutes. I think we should have made that point. It's long. But, you know, I really like the record a lot. I appreciate what he's done.

I understand that this isn't necessarily like what. you know, if you love Smokering from my Halo and waking out of pretty days, like this is maybe not the kind of record you're going to want. You're going to want those great, again, catchy jams with cool guitar solos on it. But I still feel that like

the direction he's taken, it shows him growing in his own way, but it's also emphatically him. And it's such a unique vibe that only he has where it's this melancholy lace with like goofball humor

that as a fan of Kurt Vile I really like I'm glad that he's making records like this but yeah it just seems like that sort of like war on drugs type breakthrough is not something that's going to happen for him and in some way that feels deliberate on his part what I want though is I was just love and I don't think this could possibly happen given the personalities of the people involved but

if like for some reason Kurt Vile and the war on drugs started beefing. Oh my God. Boy, that would spice things up a bit because, yeah, I mean, I was going to say, I would love to, I would love, like, for Kurt and Adam to, like, make an EP together. I think that would be really cool, like, if there was some sort of reunion, their own better oblivion community center type thing. Would they punch down at, like, wild pink or something like that in, like, the version of, like,

the better oblivion community, Kississippi Beef? I don't know. I wouldn't want them to beef. That would make me sad if they lashed out. I like them having these parallel careers and, you know, sort of zigzagging, you know, between each other. I mean, there was that Mark Kozlik war on drugs. Oh, God. Feud that went on that I don't think the war on drugs ever responded to. It was just Mark Kozlick making fun of them for a long time. And the war on drugs smartly just waited for Mark Kozlick to self-destruct. and he took himself out. So, you know, so that was wise on their part. But, yeah, I mean, again, Kurt Vile, he, it's funny that we have this run of artists, you know, as you mentioned, Father John Misty last week, Jack White, Kurt Vile, they're all kind of in the same place.

And I'm a fan of all of them. But yeah, they're all sort of like, they feel disconnected from the larger indie world, which may not be a bad thing, but like they're just, definitely in their own spheres. Yeah, and I think that's like kind of what Kurt Vile was going for anyway. I mean, as far back is like waking on a pretty days, like, you know, just writing about like fatherhood and their own bemusement at like, you know, their reputation or just like the image they painted for themselves as a, as a chill dude.

But, you know, like with this record, it's like, to me, like, I kind of want to like him. But I also like the fact that in the like Exploding Stones video, he has the same Casio keyboard. I had when I was like 10 years old getting that kind of Zeppelin all my love sound. But yeah, I think I'm already over the indie A-lister's making 75-minute albums in 2022. So like as far as believe I'm going down is concerned because I'm intrigued by your hatred of this record because I do think that's one of his best records personally. But I also feel like that is an album where he starts like referencing himself. more than on previous records?

Was that the threshold that was breached that you're just like, I can't do this? It just seemed to, and boy, I'm going to like rub some people the wrong way with this one, but it reminds me of like latter day, the national, where it seems more like the national as played by the national rather than like, you know, Matt Berninger like excavating these darks,

like the dark hour of the night type things. I mean, and of course, like, maybe this is my own projection in the sense that, like, I've aged along with them and maybe they just don't provide what I want anymore. But there was one song in that album, like, that's life, though, or something like that. I'm just like, you know what, I'm fucking done here. It's, it's just that that's life, though, almost hate to say. And he used the word chill acts. And, I mean, it sounds so, so, like, just so pissy to say. it. Like, I don't know how I could get this mad about Kurt Bile.

But the thing is, though, is that I don't think that's an affectation. Like, if you talk to him, that's how he talks. You know, he is that guy. I don't think it's a character. I think, you know, and he said this in the interview that we did, that he feels that as he's progressed, that he's felt more and more comfortable in his personality and letting his personality infuse the music. And taking, like, a more sort of naturalistic approach to songwriting. rather than, you know, stressing out about it, like letting songs come to you, like a very Zen-type perspective on being an artist. And I think that is an extension of that, you know.

So I understand what you mean, even though I don't agree with you. But I wouldn't say it's an affectation. No. I think, like, if you talk to him, it's like, no, that's how he talks. Kurt Weill is Kurt Vile 24-7, even when he's sleeping. He sleeps like Kurt Vile. We've now reached a part of our episode that we call a recommendation. Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week.

Ian, why don't you go first? Yeah, talking about screaming. We got the new Prince Daddy and the Hyena album, which is, boy, that is a real acquired taste of a vocal. Actually, this band has gotten the same vocal coach that Pup works with to kind of shave down the more grading areas of his vocals. So it's a self-titled album. It's their, I believe they're third.

this is a band who if you had been to just about any emo or pop punk adjacent shows since, let's say, 2016, you've seen a P-Dady hoodie. That is one of the iconic pieces of clothing in this scene. But, you know, in their past couple of albums, they've gone from being like kind of the definitive weed emo band, like making songs about, like, you know, broccoli and cheese and like pizza to writing these concept records about, you know, the last one, Cosmic Three. Girl Seekers was kind of like the meaning of life. And this one is about death in a way. Like they had a nearly catastrophic van incident. The singer Corey Gregory had a, like what, you know,

he talks about being in treatment for about a month. And this album like has, it still has the core of being a kind of Weezer influenced, like catchy all rock record. But it's kind of kidded out with more like Beach Boy, harmonies. There's some Mad Chester stuff going on. There's some like Brit pop as well. And I mean, once again, this is recommendation corner, not the meat. You might hear these vocals and think, yeah, no fucking way. But if you have like any sort of taste for it, you know, this is going to be

like I think they're a band that's growing in very interesting ways. And also bringing things full circle, I believe the singer of this band proposed to Kississippi on stage at Fest back in the day. They were together, like, they're not together anymore, unfortunately. But yeah, that was like one of, that was like, you know, peak Gainesville Fest. Like those two getting, I believe, engaged on stage. They're not together anymore. But, uh, wow. Yeah. Bringing a full circle. There is a, we, we plan this stuff out. We, we are like next level 40. chasing this episode's trajectory. So I'm going to go on the opposite direction for my recommendation, as I often do in this segment of the episode. I want to talk about a record called Warping All By Yourself by a group

called Wet Tuna. This is a project spearheaded by a guy named Matt Valentine, who's one of the modern masterminds of that little genre we'd like to call indie jam, the intersection of indie rock and jam band music. Matt Valentine is probably best known for the duo MV and EE. There's tons of releases that he's put out under that moniker. But I've been really into Wet Tuna lately. This is the third album that he's put out under that band. It has some of the expected influences that you would anticipate. There's like a little bit of Grateful Dead influence. There's some sort of spacey psychedelic rock in there. But there's also been a real element of like 70s funk and jazz fusion influence in the music that really comes to the

the four on this latest record. There's a song on here called Sweet Chump Change, which is a song I've been listening to a lot over the past week. And it's a song that if you aren't into this kind of music, I think it's a pretty accessible song. It's definitely in that like

Herbie Hancock, Don Cherry, sort of songs in the Key of Life era Stevie Wonder type vein. But again, with like kind of like a blurry drugged out psychedelic vibe. And he really leans on that throughout the record. as the record progresses,

it gets a little less funky and a little weirder and more psychedelic. But that combination, again, of sort of like a Grateful Dead aesthetic and, like, jazz fusion, I just think that's,

like, a really cool sound. And this is, like, a really great headphone record. There's a lot of interesting sounds on it. But when it gets a little too trippy, he's somehow able to pull it back into, like,

a really catchy melody or a really good groove. And it's just a really good balance, I think, between sort of experimentation and pop accessibility. So again, the record is called Warping All By Yourself. It's by Wet Tuna. Definitely check that out.

I am dying to hear a band that somehow like threads the needle between like Prince Daddy and the hyena and wet tuna. Like there's a bit like Indycast will like birth a band that somehow draws on both. That'd be amazing. That's your challenge out there, bands get going on that. We've now reached the end of our episode here at Indycast, but we'll be back next week with more news and reviews. and hashing out trends.

See ya. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.