Indiecast - Let's Revisit Animal Collective

Episode Date: March 5, 2021

It’s been teased for weeks now, but the time has finally come: Indiecast is delving into the career and music of Animal Collective. At one point in the aughts, the Baltimore-based group was inextricable from the overall concept of indie rock, and thus indie rock as an actual force in pop music. These days, however, the band seems to have little to no profile or lasting impact. What happened in the last decade or so that forced one of the most important bands in the genre into near obscurity? In the latest episode of Indiecast, Steven and Ian look to get to the bottom of this mystery, while also reevaluating some of the band’s definitive works like Merriweather Post Pavilion and Centipede Hz.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Ian is digging Florida quartet Home Is Where, who just released the new EP I Became Birds. Meanwhile, Steven is enjoying the long-running rotating collective of musicians releasing projects under the name Sunburned Hand Of The Man.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast on this show. We talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to be doing a deep dive into one of the most significant indie acts of the 2000s Animal Collective. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? You know, Steve, with each passing year, I come to terms with the fact that I'm just not the person and definitely

not the music writer that I used to be. As I'm sure you know, a new Kings of Leon album is dropping today. And, you know, my approach to that in the years past would have been, okay, who can I pay me to just write about this and just shit all over it? And I don't know. Can I just say quick that, like, I think a lot of our listeners would have no idea that a new Kings of Leon album is coming out. I didn't really either. Like, I'm like, oh, look at that. They're still going.

What's it called? I don't know. I honestly don't know, dude. I was about to say like sometime around midnight, but that's either like one of their old album titles or like that airborne toxic event song. Like maybe I'm just getting like bands I shit on in 2008 conflated. But, you know, like I actually, as little information as I know about the title, like I approach this album thinking like not in the usual sense,

more like, is it possible that like Kings of Leon actually have some bangers when you think about it? Like, could they be one of those bands that we've talked about, like, being resuscitated through like a greatest hits? Now, I get the feeling you're the type to say that like, aha shake, heartbreak, that first album was an actual good, not just like, you know, kind of That's their second album, by the way. That's their second. Youth and Young Manhood is their first. The new album is called When You See Yourself. Oh. And I was talking about Kings of Leon. on Twitter this week and a follower of mine

pointed out that every Kings of Leon album title, say for one, is five syllables. Youth and Young Manhood, aha, shake, heartbreak, because of the times, come around some down. They had an album called Walls that came out

in 2016 that like no one remembers. It's like they're immersed. They're immersed like in a pool of milk on the cover. It's like a very unusual cover. And then the new one is when you see yourself, that's five syllables. I will admit to being a... I've written about Kings of Leon in the past.

I enjoy their records. I once compared them to that band on Parks and Recreation that Chris Pratt is in called Mouse Rat. Like, I think they're like the real-life mouse rat. I mean, look, I like bombastic arena rock. Oh, yeah. It's a guilty pleasure for me.

I think they started out as, you know, a Southern Strokes. That was their concept. They come off quite well and meet me in the bathroom. I will say that. They do. Their documentary actually is pretty entertaining, too. And I can't remember the name of that.

But that's a good documentary. It works. They're an interesting, you know, because it's three brothers, and then there's a cousin, and they have this religious background. But you also see them smoking weed on private planes as they go from tour to tour date to tour date. So, you know, if you are a fan of, you know, unself-aware rock bands, Kings of Leon to me, is a band that you can't help but love. I mean, the reason people were talking about this record this week is that it is going to be

the first rock record ever to be released as, as this form of Bitcoin. It's like, it's non-fundable token, which, hold on. That's also five, that's five syllables. They should have just named it that. Then I would remember it. I think that's six-to-that's six syllables. Fungible? It's six.

Hits early, Steve. Because I made that joke on Twitter that, like, they could have called the album non-fungible token, and I would have believed it. But then this follower pointed out that that has six syllables and not five. So it would have violated this sort of weird Illuminati thing that Kings of Leon have with their album titles. And for those who don't know, I, you know, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to anything sort of cryptocurrency or anything related to that.

Like a non-fungible token or an NFT, apparently it's this, it's like a collectible form of digital art, essentially. Yes. And I'm probably being reductive in describing it this way, but to me, it kind of sounds like the vinyl version of an MP3 or a streaming music, you know, a more high-end version of something that people use in a utilitarian kind of way, that instead of just, you know, a MP3, you know, instead of just streaming a record that you're going to buy this NFT of the Kings of Leon record. And with the thought that you can resell this in 10 years for thousands of dollars and retire to the Caribbean, as a rich person, I mean, I guess that's the idea with this.

I don't know. I think we're kind of burying the lead here in that it's being, if we want to talk about like a band being not self-aware, they are. are releasing this apparently on the chain smokers, like blockchain or something like that. Like it has something to do with, and it has something to do with chain smokers, which, you know, they might just kind of be the Kings of Leon of their particular realm. But I tried reading so much about NFTs yesterday. Ariel Gordon, I call her friend of the pod. She was playing on StereoGum, which is a nice explainer. And like I read it three times and I still don't quite get what it's about other than like

Grimes is super into it, which, you know, it's pretty much kind of all I need to know about, like, the intersection of, like, technology and, like, is this thing like the future or is this something that will just, like, you know, be appealing to the super rich? I mean, it kind of takes the heat off me to listen to a new Kings of Leon album if I can't, you know, actually own it for less than $20,000. I mean, don't you love the mental image of Grimes and Elon, Elon, Musk sitting back and listening to Kings of Leon in their mansion on the moon. I assume they live on the moon in like some sort of sprawling bubble pod. Gosh.

And they're kicking back, listen to the new KOL record and, you know, just luxuriating in Caleb Fowlo Well's whiskey-coated drawl. God, man. I just like just a little bit of history. In 2007, I worked in a, I worked at a talent agency that, repped a lot of like at the time like warp tour type bands and there was this one guy the rock guy the rock assistant listened to the first two songs of like what's that album called with knocked up on it um that sound that he listened because of the times he listened to be he listened

to the first three songs of that album and only the first three songs of that album every single day. Like, when I got in, it would be knocked up, knocked up. He never got to McFearless, which is that's a good song. I mean, that's the thing about Kings of Leon is that they're a band that I can make fun of, and yet there's a very good chance that on some night this weekend, I'm going to drink some whiskey and I'll end up, like, tweeting about how much I love the Kings of Leon record, because I'm just in that Saturday night frame of mine. where I've had a couple pops and it'll just sound perfect to me. One thing I want to bring up too before we get to our mailbag segment is the new St. Vincent

record was announced. I guess it was probably last Friday the day that our last episode came out. Yeah. It's called Daddy's Home. Apparently it's a record inspired by 70s Rock. And St. Vincent has done some interviews about this record this record. week and there was a headline in Rolling Stone says St. Vincent's Family Ties with her new album, Annie Clark finally comes to terms with her father's white-collar prison experience, all thanks to the

power of the healing power of 70s rock, which I love this narrative. This is such a... I love it. This is awesome. This is like one of the best pre-release album narratives that we've had in a long time. Get out of here with your quarantine album. Get out of here with your Trump. Yes. You know, Annie Clark. Post Trump, new buy, like, yeah. Get that out.

Like, kick that to the curb. St. Vincent is leveling up with her, uh, white collar prison record, uh, which, now look, can we just say like, I think it's, well, I mean, I'm sorry that her, like, dad went to jail. Like, I think that's, you know, that's, I can say that's like, that probably is a bad experience. But like her, what I, what I found odd is that it happened, like, I was under the assumption this happened when she was a kid. This happened like in 2010. Right. And, and just to be clear, her dad is a stockbroker who, uh, was sentenced to 12 years in prison for fraud. And I don't know

what that entails exactly, but usually that involves like ripping off investors in some way. You know, typically that's what that means. So, you know, again, yeah, I agree with you. It would be traumatic if your father was sent to prison. However, again, I want to cast aspersions, but it doesn't seem like the most sympathetic person to be sent to prison ever. Well, yeah, definitely not. But also, you can kind of think of it as like, you know, the sins of the father type thing where, I don't know, like, you can see like maybe like the disconnect between like yourself as an artist and like, you know, someone's dad. Because I think there's a lot of talk in like Indy Rock about like, oh, you do realize this person has like a rich dad, right?

That's more in like the kind of DIY realm. But I think I'm more interested in like the 70s rock element. Yeah, the healing power of 70s rock. The healing powers. Like what 70s rock though? Are we talking about like Black Oak, Arkansas? Or are we talking about like? That would have been incredible.

I actually would have liked to. I get the feeling it's not fog. It's not fog hat. It's not fog hat. She's not busting out like the Jimmy Page double neck guitar. I don't think. I mean, it sounds like this is more of like a like a, a David Bowie type thing.

Maybe the R.D. or like strands of, you know, New York 70s music. So. That very under, that very underappreciated and under explored era of music. You know, I, you know, I just want to say that I'm excited for this album because of this narrative. I want to see how this unfolds. I would love to see St. Vincent Double Down. and do a promotional concert, like, at a white-collar prison.

You know, Johnny Cash style. Yeah. You know, instead of at... Straight arrested development. Yeah. Instead of at... Like, it really is arrested development. It is.

Yeah. Her dad's Jeffrey Tambor. Definitely. No, I just love the idea of, like, St. Vincent playing in this medium security prison for, like, middle-aged, you know, financiers who, like, rip people off. Well, she played coach. a few years back, so it's sort of more or less the same thing. Booh.

Take it. I like that. I like that. Taking the Coachella shot. Yeah. Yeah. No, the thing about that is that this was the, I think this might have been, it was 19 or so. I think it was after mass deduction.

But like this was the year that for all the people like my age who went to Coachella were just in shock at like how few people were in the crowd when like she played and when like war on drugs. played and like, uh, you kind of get, you got like a real sense of like what it means to be like a popular rock act at the time. So I'm, I'm interested in this album, if only because like, with every St. Vincent album, like, she reinvents like her image and comes up with a new narrative and it's like that leads people say, oh, she's like the new Bowie or whatever. But like I'm always interested to see like how pop, like how anecdotally popular this artist is. I've heard like more times

then we'll talk about this more obviously when the album comes out. But I've never heard more people say about an artist. Like, I admire them, but I can't, I don't really listen to their music much. I mean, what's her biggest? Like, I'm really curious. Like, what would you say it's like her biggest hit? You know, that's a good question. There's no song in particular that jumps out to me.

And I have to say I'm in the same camp where I, I'm fine by her, but I don't, her albums leave me a little cold. I've seen her live and I've enjoyed her more live than on her records. She isn't as interesting part of her career too because mass seduction, I feel, was received. It was like a mixed reaction and then she was involved in that. Was it? I don't, I feel like there were people that loved that record and those who really didn't like that record. Do you feel like people, you feel like it was more on the positive side? Oh, no, it's definitely on the positive side.

Like I think it like maybe there was like, it made me not to the extent of the previous ones. but by the time of the year ends rolled around it, it was on every single one. Well, critically, yeah, but I guess I mean in terms of just regular people, like people talking about that album. I feel like there was polarization on that as opposed to, you know,

strange mercy records like that. But she did that, and then she did the Slater Kinney album, which was very interesting, like how that whole thing turned out. And now she's doing this. Yeah, I don't know if. Jack Anson often.

involved with this? That's a good question. I don't know. I haven't I haven't dug deep into it. I'm curious to hear it. But just as a as an observer of the industry, as a commentator on music, I get excited when there are sort of shaky album narratives. It just makes me excited. I'm like, oh, okay, this could not end well or it could end great, you know? Like we're, there's genuine risk here. Like, we're, we're upping the stakes. So I'm, I'm, curious to see how it unfolds. And of course, yeah, we'll be talking more about that once we get closer to the album. Let's get to our mailbag segment.

This question comes from Ryan. He's in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Thank you, Ryan for writing in. He says, hello, Ian and Stephen. I am a relatively new listener to the podcast and I've been enjoying it very much. I really enjoy listening to your reviews of various albums in the history you provide about bands. Thank you. I do have a question for you, however.

What is with all the infiltration of pop music slash top 40 into music sites and publications? Is it simply for traffic to get readers who would not otherwise look at websites such as pitchfork? The music is terrible. All the hype and garbage surrounding it is very fatiguing. It's also disappointing to see these publications in various podcasts. Unfortunately, Indicast is not immune. Uh-oh. Delve so heavily into these trash artists, artists in quotes, and music.

Who cares who Taylor Swift or Lana Del Rey is beefing with? Who cares what Billy Eilish thinks about anything? Ugg. Thank you and keep up the wonderful work on the podcast. P.S., I would love to see this on a mailbag segment at some point. Ryan, your wishes come true. Here you go. So the short answer I think I would give to Ryan, like to the Who Cares question,

is a lot of people care. A lot more people care about Taylor Swift. and Billy Eilish and other huge pop stars. A lot more people care about that than they care about indie rock or a lot of the artists that we talk about on this show. That's just a reality of the situation. You know, I was drawn to this question because we get a lot of questions throughout the week. I was drawn to this because I think what Ryan is like saying in this question is something that like in music critic circles, people just dismiss out of hand, you know, as being closed minded at this point.

But I think that he is articulating something that I feel like a lot of people probably agree with. And I think what he is bothered by is something that we've talked about on this show, which is that there used to be this level of stratification in media, like where you could have a site like Pitchfork that only covered indie music and they ignored pop music. And there was an understanding that they were writing for a specific audience. and that people who weren't in that audience weren't going to pay attention to what they were doing.

And we don't have that internet anymore. The internet has changed from that. I mean, that was the internet that you and I experienced when we first started writing for music sites on the internet. And it doesn't exist anymore. And I think there are positives and negatives to that. A positive would be that if you're inside a walled garden, you miss a lot of the rest of the world.

And it sort of perverts your perspective, and it's good to have a wider view of what's going on, certainly in music. The negative part is that it's really hard for Indiacs to compete with huge pop stars. And if you have a situation where everyone is in the same pot, it just seems that pop stars are going to win that battle every single time. So I don't agree with what Ryan is saying at all, but I think I understand where he's, I think I understand where he's coming from. I mean, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I grew up with Philadelphia Sports Talk Radio in the 90s, so I get like a real like, yo, it's South of Upper Dobby and, you know, Angelo, like, I just don't understand how the Eagles don't trade Coy Dettma for Ty Brady, okay? Like, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what,

what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, you get that call in like April. So, you know, I appreciate the kind of like, I don't know, shit posting energy of it all. And like, you're right in that this expresses a sentiment that I think is a subtext of a lot of what's going on in the discussions we have. I just think that very rarely can you frame it in a way or word it in a way that doesn't make you sound like, you know, someone who just dismisses pop out of hand. And yeah, I mean, it's, you know, like, it's funny because, like, even like the glory days, like, 2005 for me, I guess, which, you know, might not be the glory days to someone who came of age in the 90s. Like, in 2005, you want to, like, think of that as, like, the year of, like, Sufyan and the national, like, really coming to the four. Like, there were still controversies about, like, pop back then, too.

I remember, you know, Tom Bryan will talk about this a lot about how he got a lot of social. shit back in the day for like the fact that we they were covering like you know conier and like you know young jizi instead of like the rap that was considered okay for like indie people to cover like you know any of mf dubs projects or like de la soul or whatever so i mean this conversation happens like all the time in just different sort of forms but you know the one thing i'll point out is that you know over the years um you know as i've like wrestled with the fact that you know the music that you know the music that I tend to gravitate towards gets, it's tougher for it to really break through. The thing that I feel is like the biggest waste of time and the thing that I always regret doing

is like it's like projecting like intentions upon people, like assuming that people are like, I don't know, conspiring in some way. Like the idea that like, oh, they're covering this just for traffic. Like, nah, I think what it is is that more the people who write at these places now, like genuinely like that. have music, you know. If you've ever, you know, worked at a music publication, you know, like, it's very difficult for them to get anything together, let alone some sort of conspiracy to, like, hype up certain pop artists.

But I just think we're, like, yeah, like you were saying, the internet from our era doesn't really exist anymore. And I think that, like, the internet that we're going to be talking about with, like, Animal Collective, where, like, Animal Collective was, you know, the kind of center of the universe. that's kind of an anomaly. If you look back at like the 90s or the 80s, you know, with Rolling Stone being the kind of main driver,

like that was like Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna. Those were the artists that were being covered at the time. And I think just generally speaking, the arc of the universe bends towards pop. So like any time you try to, I mean, it's kind of a defeatist idea that like anytime you try to resist pop, you're just going to end up looking like you're on the wrong side of history. So, well, and I'll say this too, that if you go to Pitchfork or Stereo Gum or any of the big music websites,

on any given day, take Pitchfork, for example, I think they still do four album reviews every day. And for the most part, those are indie albums that they're writing about. And if you go to StereoGum, yeah, they'll do, stories on the new Taylor Swift song or on Billy Ilish, but like 80 to 90% of what they're doing is on indie stuff. And the thing is is that, you know, people that complain that like pitchfork is focusing too much on pop music, it's because those are the stories that they're noticing, because that's what everyone else notices. People gravitate to the stories on the biggest artists and they act as if all the other stuff isn't there, which sort of

explains why these sites in a way are covering the big people, because if they were only to do indie music, like pitchfork would not exist. That's just the fact. And I think if you are upset that indie sites cover pop music too much, then you need to be clicking on stories about bands that you've never heard of. Yeah. You know, I really wish more people would do that. I understand why they don't because we're all busy people. We all have a lot of things in our lives. And to read about a band that you've never heard of it's an investment of time and sometimes you don't have that time but that

does explain I think along with what you're saying I do think there is also a genuine love of a pop artist but you also can't deny that I mean these sites do need to generate traffic they do need you know to keep the lights on in some respect so yeah you are going to do

maybe a superfluous news item on some pop star on a meaningless conflict that they're having because you know people are going to read And maybe that will make it possible or make it more easy to do the stories on like lesser known artists that aren't going to get any traffic. And here's the thing. It's like if we're talking about, I think what people maybe miss is, you know, back in the 2000s how like, you know, a review or something like that could elevate a band from like

literally nothing to something in the public eye. I mean, that's probably happening on TikTok or like message boards. Like, I mean, that's happening somewhere. It's just not happening, you know, within the same, you know, framework that we've experienced, you know, since the 70s or, you know, because like the music industry is just very different now. Well, and for every, like, one band that was, like, elevated by a record review, there's, like, 100 bands that got great reviews that nobody read. Yeah. They did nothing happen to them. Believe me, I write about a lot of them.

Right. So, again, be the change you want to see in the world. That's right. Support those unsung bands as much as you can. And I think if more people do that, there's going to be more coverage of those bands. Speaking of unsung bands, yes. Let's talk about Animal Collective, a band that was not unsung for many years, but now I feel like is maybe a little unsung.

And that's why we want to talk about them in this episode. Yes. Let's give a little background on this band. formed in 2003. They're from Baltimore, Maryland. An experimental pop collective, as the name suggests. The members include A.D. Tear, Panda Bear, Deacon, and Geologists. Those are, of course, not their given names.

But we'll just call them by their nicknames. We are talking about Animal Collective after all. So Animal Collective really hit their stride in the mid-aughts. I think the album that people really kind of came to this band, like the record that they heard was sung tongs, which came out in 2004. That was preceded by another record called Here Comes the Indian in 2003, which was, I get, it's now called Arc. What's that?

Now called Arc. They changed the name. It's now called Arc. Okay. I didn't know that. That's a weird thing to do. Yeah, that was very, very, very recent because like I was, I was, I was like reading back on that.

And like, if you look on spot, like, I remember they made a, they, that was also when the record label, One Little Indian changed its name. So they changed the name. Like, if you look at it on streaming, it's now called ARC. Okay. Well, we've got that settled. We'll call it, here comes the Indian slash arc. I feel like most people know it is here comes the Indian.

So I'm sorry, Animal Collective. We're going to refer to it as that. They went on this run of albums that were very critically acclaimed and also, you know, pretty popular, at least like in the indie world. It all culminates with their 2009 album, Mary Weather Post Pavilion, which at the time seemed like the record that was going to make Animal Collective. this mainstream band. I remember I saw them at a like pretty large theater on that tour.

And it's insane to think now, but it just seemed like, oh yeah, maybe Animal Collective could actually almost be this like pop rock band. But of course, that did not happen as we entered the 2010s. And, you know, I think that was due to factors that we've talked about on this show,

you know, changes in the indie music scene. But also I think Animal Collective themselves ran out of that artistic momentum that they really had in the odds. They've overall put out 10 albums. Their most recent was Painting with, which came out in 2016. The members of the group have put out various solo albums. Panda Bear and A.V. Terr both had records that came out in 2019.

I haven't heard what they're doing next. I assume there may be a record this year or maybe next year. but we've talked for many weeks now about doing an animal collective episode. We're finally doing it now. And I feel like why I wanted to do this episode is that to me, this is the first band that I think of when we talk about Otts-era indie and how it's faded in importance over time. Like this is a group that I feel like was so important for about four or five years. And my sense now is that they have no presence in the discourse whatsoever. I actually think that they're more influential than they get credit for.

And we'll talk about that in this episode. But I'm just really curious, I guess, about like, how do people think about Animal Collective? Is this a group that has transcended its generation, are like younger people? getting into this band. I don't have a strong sense of that, but I could be wrong. I don't know. Do you get a sense that people care about Animal Collective in 2021?

Well, clearly we do, but as far as, like, young kids go, I mean, I think it was, part of the reason I think it was good to do a, like, a reminiscence now. Like, it's, you know, not the 10-year anniversary of, like, any Animal Collective album,

save, I guess, for, like, Panda Bears, tomboy, which might be their last, like, from that universe, the last, like, really consensus acclaim. But if you look at, like, indie rock in, like, 2011, like, the kind of end of the 2000s and the beginning of 2010s, like, there was so much stuff influenced by them at the time. Like, Ben H. Allen, the producer who did Mary Arthur Post-Virion. He did a lot of records that year. Like, you got bands like braids, like plural braids, not the emo band braids, who,

were influenced by them. And, like, I think that was just, like, kind of the peak. Uh, and there was nowhere to go, but down from there. And here, here's the thing, man. Like, I don't know if any indie band is really popular, uh, amongst, um, you know, like kids these days. Because one of the shifts that we've seen, um, is that it's more a personality driven genre now.

Um, like most, like, like, uh, Adam Levine said, there are no bands anymore. Um, and, um, and, Great rock critic, by the way. Adam Levine's one of my favorite rock critics. I wish he would stop doing Maroon 5 and just write think pieces. I think that would be incredible. Yeah, that's where the money's at. For Animal Collective, it signifies this type of, like,

you were saying, this idea of, like, an idea of a band that could be, like, the center of an indie rock universe where, like, every single thing that, like, they do is considered headline news. And also, like, in the 2000s, you know, indie rock being kind of synonymous with, like, art rock. Like, I mean, they come from like a really abrasive noise rock, freak folk, whatever background.

And I think that they are so tied to their era because when you look at like Melry Weather Post Pavilion as like the triumph that it was in 2009, it was kind of seen as like a triumph for like indie culture as well. Like, look at, like, look at, look at where we've come, you know, look at this band that started out in 2001 with, you know, Spirit, they've gone, Spirit, they've vanished. And leading up to a point where they can make an album about a, you know, big outdoor amp theater and, like, actually maybe play there. But nowadays, it just seems a bit antiquated.

Like, I think that there's, they seem like they would be a band that, like, kids would be into because they are very much vibey. I think they were really, really early, early adapters as far as mainstreaming, fish and the Grateful Dead, not just as aesthetics, but like more the, their live shows were like always unpredictable. Like you would almost never get them playing the album. They just released. They would always be workshopping stuff from the new LP. And I think that was like, if you want to look at like the influence that they have now,

that might be the main thing that they've done. Also, if you look at like, I think this gets into a bigger conversation. of like whether Panda Bear's solo records are more, you know, influential in the band. Because after person pitch in 2007, everyone was buying samplers. I mean, like, it is really hard. It is really hard to overstate, like, how much music was shaped in the image of person pitch after it came out. I was going to say that. I think that if you make a case for Animal Collective being influential in 2021, it's what you're saying there,

that they came after that return of the rock movement of the early. 2000s with the strokes and Interpol, all these bands looking, you know, into the past, you know, 20th century, New York, cool, that whole thing. And Animal Collective was this band that, you know, they weren't this conventional guitar-based drums band. It was like, we can be a rock band, but really not resemble what rock music is conventionally looked at, you know, being. And I think that inspired people, even people that maybe don't even know who Animal Collective is, they're sort of a influence through osmosis, you know, that they handed down to people,

that they show that you could do that. Where they don't seem influential to me is the abrasiveness of their music. And we'll get into this as we talk about some of their albums. I think that there's moments on their records that are incredibly beautiful and in superiors. But they also have a lot of elements that are, you know, if you're not on their wavelength, they can be pretty obnoxious and grading. And, you know, we've talked about this on this show, about how we yearn in a way for more bands to do things like that, to risk alienating people, because it seems like things now

are awfully easy listening, you know, like even records I like. You know, I'm not hearing a lot of music that is abrasive or, I'm that might run the risk of me not liking it immediately you know uh and animal collective maybe they just benefited from a time when um you were forced to listen to things more than once or it wasn't so easy to go to the next thing because there wasn't streaming music at that time uh i don't know um but you had an i i want to go back to your point too about the personality driven aspect of indie now because i think that's a good point that if you look at biggest indie stars now, there is a cult of personality around them where people feel like they're

relating to this person or they're looking up to this person, but there's some investment in their personal narrative. And with Animal Collective and a lot of those bands of that ilk, you don't really know who these guys are. And you don't even know what they're saying in their records. It's like this sound collage. You're along for the sonic journey. Yeah, you're like around, like I think with Animal Collective, they're a band, I think, of, like, along the lines of liars or deer hunter, where you're a lot, like, I mean, obviously, like, you know, Bradford Cox's huge personality, but, like, there was exciting to see, like, where musically they might go next, I think, you know. As, like, it was a, it was a time, like, Animal Collect, we're going to be talking about, like,

specifically from, like, 2001 Spirit, Spirth they're gone to at Mary Weather Postpavilion. I mean, they were making such profound shifts in their sound from, like, album to album. And it was just really exciting to follow along. Likewise, as you were saying, it took some time to absorb it. I mean, like, sung tongs. I hated it when I first heard it. But, you know, I guess the hype around it or just, you know, the lack of availability, it, like, really forced me to, like, work through things.

And, you know, I'm glad I did because, gosh, I can't. Being an Indian frog fan of 2000 would be kind of terrible if you hate an animal collective, you know. Because, like, not just their music, but, like, also so much of the stuff that surrounded it. But, I mean, I think we're getting the sense that, like, our favorite Animal Collective is, like, the 0-4-05 type error, right? Yeah, I think so. And there might be a conversation to be had about, like, whether Mary Weather Post Pavilion at this point is underrated. Because I, which is kind of a weird thing to say, because that is the most celebrated Animal Collective record. But, you and I were talking about our favorite.

it animal collective records and like that wasn't our pick you know neither one of us picked that and neither one of us put that second or maybe even third um and i wonder to what degree that's just driven by that record being so celebrated in its moment yeah and in a way because animal collective couldn't follow up on it is that record in some way considered a failure retrospectively you know or retroactively, you know, that, you know, they didn't herald,

you know, Animal Collective didn't bring about the Indy Rock Revolution, you know, the Indy Rock Revolution. I mean, it was more like the end of it. Yeah.

And I do think, in a lot of ways, what turned a lot of people off from Indy Rock was that there were a lot of groups that sounded like Animal Collective. I think Animal Collective in a way became a shorthand for people

who didn't like indie rock and felt like, well, does it just sound like this? It's just people yelping into microphones and, you know, beating tom drums at the foot of the stage. And what is this obnoxious shit? You know, I think for as many people that were thrilled by Animal Collective, there were just as many, if not more, who were totally turned off by them,

which is another thing I like about them. I like that polarization that, you know, that because it speaks to the risks that they took in their music, that they were willing, you know, to go into areas that were not. going to be immediately likable to everybody. But yeah, I just wondered to what degree animal collective helped bring about the end of that era. Like, because they ultimately were not a transcendent band. You know, I think a lot of people thought they could be with that record, but they weren't. What do you mean by transcend?

That they could like get out of indie rock and be this massive group, that they could be a band that could break through in a way that other groups have come out of the underground in the past. I think there was this weird notion, which again seems insane now, to think that anyone could have thought this. But I even felt like I thought this at the time that, like, wow, Animal Collective, they're going to, like, revolutionize the mainstream. Like, this record is poppy enough. This record is popy enough to appeal to pop fans, but it's also kind of weird. You know, it's a little bit of both. But it was, you know, but it didn't do that.

And I don't think that's the fault of Animal Collective necessarily. I'm just saying, I feel like that's what you're going to be. what happened. Yeah, I mean, when we talk about like transcendent and we like, I think it's a good framing with like the pop music we talk about. Like Animal Collective is still, I would say, like a super popular band, especially when you kind of consider where they came from. I mean, like they were, they were, if you listen to Arc, I'm going to call it Arc,

like they were contemporary of like black dice and like liars and like those bands that you would hear people talk about, like, you know, New York kids, like, wearing trucker hats, drinking sparks and, like, doing Coke, like, you know, in 2002. And the fact that they, you know, had a hit on the level of my girls, like that people played at their wedding. Like, yeah, I think they transcended, like, as far as it, but they definitely hit a ceiling. Like, they were not Vampire Weekend. They were not Arcade Fire, you know, if we're talking about, or they weren't the national. They weren't at that level of bands. But I think that, you know, to the degree that they did get popular was like just,

I don't know, it just gave me a lot of hope, I guess. Right. That, you know, bands could like, you know, evolve from something like feels, which, or even that like feels could be, you know, people could, like, really rally around a record like that. I think that's our collective favorite, right? Yeah, I was going to say,

there's probably people listening to this episode that aren't that familiar with Animal Collective. they're looking for an entry point and you and I were talking and we landed on the same favorite record which is feels from 2005 why would you recommend feels it's obviously the most emo animal collective record

I mean it's named Fields for Christ but but by that point like I think there's a halo around everything from 2005 for me it was just a really beautiful time but this is the record that represents to me the culmination of their like earliest phase of like being kind of this combination of like folk and ambient and also like noise together.

Sung Tongs is a massive leap in its own right, but there's still like those parts that you said are a little grading. Like I remember I would see when people like want to make fun of Animal Collective, they'll bring up like live videos of them playing wee tigers or things like that where it is like, you know, the floor tombs and so forth. But feels to me it's like it's all, it almost to me resembles more like a boards of Canada. a record or like Aifex twin where it's just almost beauty for beauty's sake and um i think like it's

just more enveloping than um sung tongs which gets a little bit abrasive in ways and it it's i think the culmination of that before they switch to strawberry jam which is their first record on i believe domino and i mean that's like one of my favorites as well but that like begins like the more pop sort of phase of Animal Collective. So I mean, Fields to me is really, and also it's not quite as overexposed as Merry Weather Post or Strawberry Jam. So, you know, whenever I come back to it, it always just sounds fresh. Yeah, I, the thing I love about Fields is that I'm a sucker for albums where you have a lot of like upbeat energetic songs on the first half and then you have this really slow and pretty and almost ambient second half.

And one of the greatest albums of all time for me is Remain in Light by Talking Heads, and that has that same structure. And there are, I think, some parallels between fields and Remain in Light in the sense that, you know, I don't know if there's like an explicit, like, world music influence on Animal Collective. But there is. Yeah, I mean, I think that there are some shared influences in that regard. But yeah, just the structure of that record, I think, works really well where I think the first half is that quintessential thing that you associate with Animal Collective, this very kinetic, upbeat, almost chaotic type sound. Although I think what's important to note about Animal Collective is that for all the experimentation that they did, that at their best, they did also write really catchy songs.

and ultimately, when you look at their 2010's work, I think that's what abandons them. Like, centipede hurts and painting with, I think the songs just aren't there. Like the sound is there, the experimentation is there, but the hooks and almost the anthemic quality that you get from the best animal collective songs aren't there. But then the second half of feels is my favorite music that they've ever made.

Ah, banshee meat, man. Beautiful. Locke Raven, beautiful song. Oh, good too. And I think that's an underrated aspect of Animal Collective, that they're not just this squealing, banging, you know, polarizing band, that they could actually make music that was really soothing and beautiful that you could vibe out to, you know, if you just wanted to hear something pretty.

So I feel like that might be a great entry point for people that maybe know this band, but they're a little intimidated by checking it out. They think they might be annoyed by it. Animal Collective. I think feels is like a really good gateway for people. Yeah, I think that and also, but, um, you know, and for people who like, like, uh, Merriweather Postpavilion, I would recommend like stepping back to Strawberry Jam as well. Like that one's definitely abrasive, but I think that it can, it's, it's sort of like Merriweather Post Pavilion without like maybe being as overexposed. So I think that's, that's like a record that's been kind of, um, put,

Like, it's seen as the one between feels and Merry Weather Post. Also, like, the Falby Kind EP that followed Maryweather Post's avillian. What would I want? Sky, I think, had the first cleared Grateful Dead sample of any, like, rock song. So, I mean, that was a big deal at the time. But, yeah, I'd say that, like, I think every time they release a new project, because they've released a lot of music, be it live albums, soundtracks, et cetera. like painting with like in 2016 like I just that to me was just so depressing to behold because

you would just see like all these like billboards around silver like when I live there and it just seemed to like it I just never thought I could hear like a really phoned in animal collective album and you know it just remind me of like when the when you know after the after what were those records yoshimi with like the flaming lips how they sort of became like a little like how like they kind of phoned in and it made me think like is it a is it possible for animal collective to like become back in the good graces of people who you know care about like you know the the indie rock press and like what would that record sound like and i keep coming back to like something like flaming lips embryonic where they just like made a really raw chaotic like got rid of the whole pop eye like the whole pop eye like the whole pop i like the whole pop i like the whole pop. sound and just like just really got back to something grimy like arc I mean what do you a do you think Animal Collective could do that be what would it even sound like I definitely think they could do that you know my sense of those of those guys is that

they've you know stayed committed to making music yeah I wonder if maybe just working as a collective was not really exciting them at that time but I could definitely see them making a comeback and I think you're right on with that prescription for a comeback, just to get back to the weird roots, but also combining it with really catchy songs. I mean, I think that is the sweet spot for Animal Collective where you want the weirdness, but then you want those unexpected bursts of melody that just come out of the murk and lift your spirit. And I think when they can do that, you know, that's as exciting and exhilarating as indie music from that time gets, I think.

All right, we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So, you know, Steve, as you've heard many, many, many, many people talk about on Twitter and online, just in general, it's been a huge year for Florida Emo. I mean, it's like when we look back on 2021, that's going to be the thing. Bands like, you know, uh, snacking and camp trash. You know, in spite of the fact that Fest almost certainly won't happen, although it is take, does take place in Florida, so they tend to be lax with masks.

But, you know, it's almost like there's an emo revival revival happening with this early 2010 sound of being kind of beery and anthemic. And there's a band called Home Is Ware that is from Florida. that is releasing this EP that I've been very excited about for a while called I Became Birds. And the interesting thing about them to me is that they do have the components of like Florida emo where it's just like really fist pumping and like shotgunning a six pack of Papps all at the same time, you know, elements of like hot water music or Joyce Manor. But what this band does that's interesting to me is it gets into more of like the surrealism of cap and jazz.

Like the lyrics are just almost animal collective, like in the way they have this vivid imagery that might not be particularly sensical. Also, the first song is called El Ron Hubbard was way cool. So they have that kind of self-deprecating humor that I love about emo music. And yeah, it's for this past year, a lot of the best records from this realm have been EPs, which may lead them to getting less attention similar to Al My T's. talked about last week, arms length, similar to one I talked about before, for your health, which is 17 minutes. Home is Where? It's kind of a tough band to Google, but yeah, keep your eyes peeled, like, on emo Twitter

today. There will be a lot of people posting about it. I can't recommend this one highly enough. So the band I'm going to be talking about, this choice is somewhat inspired by Animal Collective, because this is also a collective. And this is like a collective in a real sense, because there's like been dozens of people that have been in this group over the years. They're called Sunburn Hand of the Man.

They're band from Massachusetts. They've been putting out records since the late 90s. And again, if you look at their Wikipedia page, it's like their list of past members is like dozens of people long. And they've also put out a ton of albums, many of them, limited edition CDRs. So their music could be kind of hard to track down. But I think they're about to get some of their best exposure that they've had in quite some time. Next week they're putting out a record called Pick a Day to Die being put up by a really good indie label called Three Lowbed.

And you can actually go on the Three Lowbed recordings, Band Cap page to check out a couple songs from this record. Again, that's three, then Low Bed, L-O-B-E-D. And this record, I would recommend to anyone if you wish that the Grateful Dead sounded more like Sonic Youth or Can, you will like this band. because they have that improvisational feel, very experimental, but not really coming at it from, you know, like a folk or a blues-based direction. It is much more, again, of that like crout rock influence, a lot of noise influence, but it's also pretty spacey and psychedelic and goes off in all kinds of different directions. There's like one song on this record that actually sounds a little bit like thrash metal.

You know, it's really unpredictable. It's a really cool record. I like it a lot. It comes out next week. Again, it's called Pick a Day to Die. Check out the band campaign. You can hear a couple songs before it comes out before you pick it up on March 12th. This is a band that I've like, I hear a lot of people, I feel like Riley Walker tweets about this band every other day.

Yeah, this is a band that's like always been super interesting to me, like as a fellow traveler of like Animal Collective and bands like that. but it's just so hard to know where to start. Yeah, I think this will be a good record for a lot of people to get into them. It's a pretty accessible record, and it's definitely going to be available to people. So definitely check that out when it drops next week. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more reviews and news and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter.

You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.