Indiecast - Lily Allen's Gossipy New Album + The Best Halloween Songs

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

Steven and Ian open with a conversation about a memorable Halloween from 10 years ago (0:56). Then they do a Sportscast on the World Series (5:59), and Steven's belief that he's spiritually Canadian. From there, they pivot to the gossipy reception to Lily Allen's new album, and her legacy as a blog-friendly indie-pop phenom from the 2000s (12:25).They also talk about a list of notable Halloween songs that aren't actually about Halloween (19:41) and the prospect for musician biopics after the relative box-office failure of the Bruce Springsteen movie.(29:01). After a quick check-in on the Fantasy Album Draft (42:53), they do a "yay or nay" on whether Feels is Animal Collective's best album (46:36).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about Berlin ambient artist Ben Bondy and Steven goes with Chicago indie legend Sam Prekop (50:44).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 263 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indicast on the show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode we talk about Lily Allen's Love Life, the utility of Halloween music, and the 20th anniversary of the best animal collective album, or maybe not. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He wishes you a spookacular holiday. Ian Cohen, Ian, Ian, how are you?

Well, since it is October 30th when we're recording, I must say I am being haunted by the 10-year anniversary of the first Beach Slang album, which... Oh, man. Yeah, that haunts me to this day, like quite literally. Well, it's their first full length, I think. Yes. Because they put out the EP before that. Yeah, I was joking about Beach Slang this week because, you know, there was a new Isaac Chotner. I think that's how he pronounced his name.

The guy from the New Yorker. Yeah. Who does the really tough interviews, and he interviewed Corinne, St. Pierre, the former Biden spokesperson, just humiliated her in print. I mean, she was humiliating herself on this book tour, but he just destroyed her. And then I wrote a pretend scenario, like if Isaac Chotner were to interview me for the New Yorker, he would press me on how I said the Beach Slang album was the best album of 2015 back in 2015. That would be the take, I think, that I would be grilled for in the New Yorker.

it's funny because the feature I wrote about BeachLang was the last article I wrote for Grantland. Grantland was shut down I think like three or four days after my Beech Lang story was published. I don't know if that's related.

I don't know if Disney was finally like, okay, we're pulling the plug on this thing. But someone reminded me this morning that Grantland, this website I used to work for that I think has still a reputation online. I think people still remember that place fondly. We were shut down 10 years ago this week on October 30th was the day that we were shut down. And I was just thinking about this because that was my one experience really working at a place where people online were speculating

about when we were going to be shut down. And I remember the news that we were being shut down leaked right before this conference call that we all had that we knew was going to be the death sentence call, but it leaked online before the call. So it was like, okay, you're already dead, but we're still going to, you know, go to the hospital and try to revive you. You know, it was like one of those experiences. And it was just wild. And I always feel for people there in the situation. And I guess, you know, it works for all kinds of companies. But It's very surreal to see strangers talk about your work situation as you're going through it. And Grantland was a site that I think people love it now, but at the time, I feel like it was something, it was polarizing.

People love to rip on Grantland. I think because Bill Simmons is polarizing. Yeah. Not to me. I love Bill Simmons. Gave me a job. I owe a lot to that guy. So no disparaging words from me.

But people, especially in media, to this day, have very intense feelings about him. And that just filtered down to everybody else that worked there. But anyway, interesting memory. One of my more interesting Halloween's for sure 10 years ago. Yeah, I contributed articles every now and again to Grantland. And shout to Chris Ryan, even though he's the one doing a three-hour band splint on Jim Heat World that just dropped today. That should be me. But then again, I met Chris Ryan at a knapsack concert in L.A.

So, you know, he's got the juice. But yeah, with Bill Simmons, after my first article dropped, I went to a movie that night. And after I got out, there was like all sorts. There was like numerous, like a dozen people of my mentions congratulating me because they saw Bill Simmons started following me. So, yeah, I mean, that guy is, there are a lot of people love them. A lot of people really despise them. Quite divisive, but undeniably successful. And, you know, he let me write about.

college football. I think that that was definitely not a area that Grantland covered. I wrote about college football, like Sun Kill Moon and the 1975 there. I just have nothing but fine memories about writing for Grantland. Yeah, and yeah, I worked there for three years. Great place to work. You know, it really is amazing thinking back to those years. You don't really feel like you were in a golden era at the time in media. And I'm not talking about the quality. I'm just like the business relative to now was a lot better. And I mean, the only reason Grantland existed is because of the cable bundle.

You know, like at that time, ESPN like had 100 million subscribers, I think, something like that. So they could just spend money on things that weren't core to their mission, you know, including this website where we just did a lot of weird things that. Like, we never got a ton of traffic at Grantland, but it didn't matter because 100 billion subscribers. I mean, this thing didn't have to make money. And, you know, now, you know, a decade later, the money that we would have had for Grantland is now going to, you know, Stephen A. Smith's, you know, dinner budget. That's what that money would go to now. So anyway, those were the good old days, Ian. They're over now.

The good old cable bundle. Speaking of Grantland, speaking of sports, let's do a quick sports cast here. Because I have World Series fever, Ian. I've been glued to this World Series, which I didn't think I would be because it just seemed like the Dodgers were going to steamroll to a repeat this year. And I'm not a big baseball guy really either, like not anymore. When I lived in Milwaukee, I was a big baseball fan because Milwaukee is a great baseball town. And, of course, you know, the Brewers were good this year, and then they got swept by the Dodgers. But, you know, I moved from Milwaukee about a decade ago, and I haven't followed baseball really all that closely.

But this Toronto Blue Jays team, man, okay, so it's getting to be game six the night of this podcast posting, Halloween night. They have a chance to close out against the Dodgers. And I love it, man. I feel spiritually Canadian, Ian. Yeah. I'll buy that. I'll buy that. I mean, I, you know, my whole life, I've lived about six hours away from the Canadian border. I mean, I'm way up north in America.

So I'm closer to Canada than like most of the rest of the United States throughout my life. So if the Canadians will have me, I feel spiritually Canadian. I own all the tragically hip albums. Not many Americans can say that. I own every Rush album, too. So I've got that going for me. don't own any Tom Cochran albums Maybe I need to get

Maybe that's the real side If I'm into Tom Cochran You know Tom Cochran? Of course I don't Tom Cochran Give me give me yeah Plus I hear that The Life is a Highway cover But I mean he was

Red Rover That was the band he was in before I'm like I'm driving Cochran knowledge For real man Red Rover What's their big hit? I didn't know You were gonna know

That they had it Oh I know Come on If I'm dropping con-I'm spiritually Canadian. Okay, so I know, is it Red Rider? Isn't it Red Rider? Not Red Rover, right? You're probably right, man. I think it's Red Rider.

Let me look here. Yeah, Red Rider. Also known as Tom Cochran and Red Rider. And I'm trying to think of, anyway, they have a big hit. Anyway, so I'm really cheering for Toronto here. I hope they close out. Although I kind of want a game seven. So maybe they shouldn't win tonight, but they can win game seven.

But yeah, I'm loving it. I don't know. Are you like cheering for the Dodgers as a Southern California guy? Well, it's interesting because San Diego has a very intense and extremely one-sided rivalry with the Dodgers yet. My coworkers are invested because they all seem to have husbands who are a big Dodger fan. So, you know, I mean, that's San Diego for you. But, um, they're such a husband. They're a husband team. Exactly. Many, many people's husbands love the Dodgers.

Yeah. But yeah, I was at a softball. I play in a softball league right now, like a co-ed, not serious softball league. and like we were watching the game at the the 18 inning game as it goes along and like by the like we were done at like eight okay we were done at like nine o'clock and that was like the ninth inning and it still kept going but you know I did kind of want to see the blue jays win because it dawned on me that about a week ago that a the dodgers looked unbeatable B the chiefs look like the best team in football again and C Taylor swift is breaking all kinds of sales records even though I have not heard a note of the new album in the while and it just seems like oh Yeah, nothing changed.

Everything that you remember just dominating our lives is still dominating. And there's nothing we can do about it. But you know what? Like, I think it would be cool if the Blue Jays were to win. I would love it because like, yeah, it's, you know, baseball. But like a non-American team winning the American pastime. Like that would just probably bring out a lot. It wouldn't be like bad bunny type controversy.

But I do think it would create an. interesting angle. Yeah, I feel like the Dodgers, though, there's a, no, I don't think they're going to win. Have you been watching this series? Yeah, Blue Jay's been lights out, man. Blue days look really good and the Dodgers aren't hitting very well. No, what I was going to say is that I think the Dodgers are a good villain just because they're the prototypical big market that just spends a ton of money. And they're also, you know, if you're looking at it from the conservative angle, it's also Hollywood. You know, so like the Red Staters can like cheer against Hollywood, you know, winning this thing. I mean, I kind of like the, I mean, look, I love Shohay Otani.

I'm a sports fan. I love greatness, seeing greatness. And even when he was destroying the Brewers in Game 4, I couldn't help but admire this dude hidden three home runs and, you know. Striking out 10 people. I mean, it was amazing to see even though it was at my team's expense. But I don't know, man. I love this Blue J. team. I love Canada. Canada, if you're listening, I'm with you, Toronto Blue Jays. Jesse Barfield.

Hell yeah. Remember that guy? Of course. We've got to remember some guys like Tom Hanky, like, uh, who else is, uh, wasn't there a dude named Greg Bell? Am I, I mean? No, George Bell. I think it was George Bell. Kelly, Kelly Gruber. I mean, uh, well, I mean, you're, you're going to dig back into the memories of Joe Carter, uh, with the walk off home running against Mitch Williams. So I forgive that, but I remember I was like babysitting for like my cousin. I was like 13 years old. And yeah, I got some free popsicles that night. But that was overall not a good night in 1993.

Have you been to Canada? Yeah, I was in Vancouver a couple years ago. That's a great city. It was great. That's one of my favorite cities I've been to. Vancouver's great. I've been to Toronto. That's a cool town.

I was in Montreal like in when I was like 15 on a Jewish summer camp. Oh, wow. All I remember was just how clean the streets were, but that was compared to like mid-90s Philadelphia. Well, I've been to Winnipeg. That was kind of a gritty town, but I liked it. That's like the closest city that is from me. Like, I was actually thinking about doing a family road trip to Canada and taking the kids to Winnipeg. I don't know like how exciting that's going to be for the kids.

I'm thinking of like the, you know, the Simpsons mean, that's it. We're going back to Winnipeg. It's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. All right, end of sports cast. I want to ask you if you've been following this Lily Allen story. Lily Allen, of course, if you don't remember, she was this

buzzy English singer-songwriter that emerged in the 2000s doing indie pop at the time. The kind of record that, like, critics love. You know, she was a, you know, she wrote these pop songs that also had like a sassy edge to them. Like she would drop like swear words and song titles. You know, it's just the kind of thing that like critics

always go for. Her first record called All Right Still. I don't know if you remember that. I remember I think I bought that CD in 2006 when that came out. I was trying to keep up with the critical community on that one. And I don't know what happened after that.

Like to me, she like disappeared after that. I associate her with, like, you know, again, like critically acclaimed kind of blog-friendly indie pop from the 2000s. And I know that she went on to make other records. She put out a record in 2014 called Sheez-is. Yes. I don't know if you remember that.

Of course I remember that. I keep asking if you remember this and you remember everything. She did some acting. I feel like she'd be in the news for like talking smack about other pop stars. Like that was also part of her. Schick. And I looked her up on Spotify. She has almost 10 million monthly listeners.

So she has an audience. I feel like she's probably bigger in England than she was in the United States. Anyway, I digress. Lily Allen has been all over this week. I feel like I'm hearing about her constantly, and she has a new record out called West End Girl. But the reason why she's the topic of so much conversation is that she wrote this record essentially about her estranged husband,

David Harbour from Stranger Things, which I'm watching that show, by the way, with my son. Not a great show. I don't really like this show. Like, my son really likes it. I'm pretty bored by it. Like, we saw the first season, and now we're in the second season, and I don't know. It's not great. Anyway, he's pretty good on the show.

He's pretty charming. But apparently this guy was just, you know, catting around. He's just cheating on Lily Allen left and right And she wrote this record about it And it's just been a huge story It's all over like the indie press The indie music press And it's very curious to me

Because am I in the dark here I just felt like It's kind of weird That people are so into Lily Allen All of a sudden I mean is it just because of the gossip aspect Of this record? I mean

Yeah You were getting at what Lily Allen, like, did in 2006. It's a very pre-pop-optim idea of a pop star. That's like 2000. Like, I associate it almost as much with, like, Peter Bjorn and John as I do with any actual pop artist. But she's kind of this person who's hung around the periphery of culture. And I saw a tweet that said, Lily Allen feels like one of those people you're just going to be forced to endure for the rest of your life.

The matter how many flops comebacks, disgraces are shocking. bad albums. Someone in the UK culture industry is going to give her a lot of money to do something. And I think that's a very accurate summation of what I've experienced with her. By the way, like, Stranger Things, weirdly, like, I don't want to say I'm fascinated by it, but weirdly influential in the musical sphere. I mean, you got that band Joe extremely successful, like to the point where Joe Keery is no longer that guy from Stranger Things. A couple other guys haven't been. Really? I'm out on that. I had no idea. Oh, huge. They had one of those.

TikTok songs that now has a billion streams on Spotify. He's in the pavement movie, too. He plays Stephen Malcolmis in the pavement movie that Alex Ross Perry made. So, yeah, he's big. And Finn Wolfhard. Yeah. I think that's his name. He's going to make the Replacements movie, apparently.

Okay. He's adapting, my friend Bob Mayer, his book, Trouble Boys. It's being adapted. And hopefully that movie gets made. I want to see Bob get paid. But yeah, I don't know if he's playing Westerberg in that movie, Finn Wolfhard. Okay. I don't know.

But that's another musical thing with Stranger Things. Yeah, one of the other guys is in a pup video once, and now you got David Harbor. So, yeah, I mean, this. Well, he's not doing music, though. He's, like, you know, inspiring music. He's being a bad boy, apparently. Millie Bobby Brown was, like, hanging with Drake for a bit. She's married to John Bon Jobe's kid.

Oh. Billy Bobby Brown. So another musical connection. Yeah, I can't believe this show is still going. Like, this is, I always see previews for it, and I thought, like, it ended a long time ago. Like, I enjoyed the first couple seasons. Then it became one of those shows where every episode was movie length. But this book is, or this, this, this, this, this, I'm tipping my hand here, but this album seems to me to be a bit of a repeat of, I'm pretty sure this happened this year.

But I remember, like, John Malaney. ex-wife wrote a book that she was saying like oh it wasn't about John Malaney but it clearly was and a novel? I think it was a novel yeah it was a novel or it didn't name him per se

but it was like she was doing like just like a lot of press about how John Mullaney was like cheating around on her and this feels like a much more beloved version of it I don't know if it's because like Lily Allen's more in the right here or just people have this sort of

warm feeling for her. I don't know, but yeah, I, call it, you know, call it a symptom of not much actually happening in music right now. But, yeah, this is, this is taken. I thought this would be like a blue sky thing, if anything, but no, it is all over Twitter, too. Yeah, it's a, and again, it's getting a ton of coverage. It seems like the album was well received.

Yeah. It's just, it is, because she is. in that kind of like indie pop blog rock realm like I in my mind that's where she is kind of like MIA or like that sort of person But like on the B or C tier

I feel like MIA was a huge deal in the 2000s I feel like Lily Allen I mean like did she get market corrected by Robin? I think Robin came along kind of doing something similar but like Robin came first so yeah she was like 2005 Lily Allen was more so about the same time

yeah so like But I feel like she got bigger later on. Maybe I'm misremember. I don't know. Anyway, Lily Allen, good for you. You got some revenge. You're getting some press. David Harbor.

I don't know if he's going to be promoting stranger things when that show comes back later this month. Or I think it's going to be late November. I don't know. He might have to avoid all the talk shows after this record. Transitioning now, we're ending Lily Allen cast. Let's go to Spooky Cast. here because we do have to talk about Halloween a little bit since this episode's dropping on Halloween. I don't know. Do you have any Halloween plans? You don't have kids, but people still go out to

Halloween parties apparently when they don't have kids. I'm seeing, I'm seeing geese this, uh, I'm seeing that's right. Nice. Nice. And because I work in an office, um, I do have to, uh, wear a costume. I made a last minute switch of my costume. for reasons I won't get into. Like, I definitely had a crisis of conscience. So by the time, like, I'm there, people will see it. I'm going to be calling it because I need, like, a costume I can, like, put together with stuff I already own. But I'm going to be, as a theme, we're all being, like, kind of horror movie or horror show type people.

I'm going to be Colin Robinson from what we do in the shadows, because I do have a cardigan. I'm already bald. I have some ties. But, yeah, that's my plan. played by Mark Proch, my former college roommate. Hell yeah. So I'll tell him that you're dressing as him for Halloween. I did want to bring up this thing that I saw this week, Billboard magazine.

They did a list of the top Halloween songs of all time. And this list went viral because I think the main reason it went viral is that this is the top 25 list. And it's not a qualitative list. They're not ranking it in terms of what they think are the best Halloween songs. Apparently these are songs that it's ranked by how well they've done on the charts over the years. So people were mad because Michael Jackson Thriller, the title track from that album, is only at number 22 on this list. Which I'm surprised by. I mean, if it was a qualitative list, I think that would be shocking.

But as a chart performance list, I'm really surprised. I mean, just looking at some of the songs that are ahead of it, which, by the way, this is a very loosely defined Halloween list. These are not songs necessarily about Halloween. They're just songs that have like monsters in them, I guess. So like number one, we all know what number one is. Very chalky. And again, it's not a qualitative list, but I think we would all get,

it's Monster Mash at number one. I mean, that is the Citizen Kane, I think, or I guess in this case it would be, What's the number one grossing movie? Avatar. Is it Avatar? It's the Avatar of Halloween songs. But the number two is Ghostbusters by Ray Parker Jr. That's not really a Halloween song.

It's about busting ghosts. Yeah. But they're not doing Halloween stuff. Edgar Winter Group, Frankenstein, number three. I'm surprised that that is such a big chart song. Yeah? I don't know. I guess it did well on the pop charts.

The Monster, that number four, by Eminem, featuring Rihanna, that has nothing to do with Halloween. No. Does it? I don't think so. Nor does On Our Own by Bobby Brown at number five. Yeah, from Ghostbusters 2 theme. Another ghostbusting song.

Two of the top five songs on this list are Ghostbusters related. And again, a film with no connection to Halloween. I don't think Halloween comes up once in the Ghostbusters universe. I think it's funny that the next song number six, Rockwell, somebody's watching me, is the highest charting. a song that involves Michael Jackson, allegedly. Like, I don't know if she's, like, ever credited on that song, but it's clearly him. It's clearly him. Yeah.

And that song did 16 spots better than Thriller did? Really? I don't really understand that. Because to me, Thriller, I still hear that song all the time. I mean, that, that album is so huge. I don't know. Like, Creedans did better than not? Like, Santana, Black Magic Woman?

I don't think that makes sense. I could see Bad Moon Rising. That's the CCR song. It's at 14. I mean, that was a big pop hit. I could see that. I get that. Like the Rockwell song I don't get.

They have Janet Jackson Black Cat. Now we're really stretching. Sure. No Halloween. It's funny because I was looking at this list. Imagine Dragons Demons at number 11. No, that's not. They have Devil with a blue dress on by Mitch Ryder.

Again, no Halloween connection. Not scary. Like Monster Mash, clearly, you see the connection. These are just songs that have like the devil in them or they have some sort of tangential relationship to ghosts or spirits. A golden earring song that isn't Radar Love? Like, I didn't know those existed. That's that song. The song is Twilight Zone at number 23.

That's when the bullet, it's the bone. You know that song? I'm not singing it very well. But I was thinking about this how, you know, there's this thing about humor and music, how if a song is too funny sometimes, it can get in the way of it being a good song. Like, if a song seems too jokey, it's kind of hard to take seriously. And it almost becomes like a novelty song. It's like the difficulty of like finding the right amount of humor and balancing that like with,

just having a good song. I think there's something similar with like with spookiness. Like there's only a certain level of spookiness that you can have in a song. I think like an instrumental song that sounds kind of creepy works. But once you start having lyrics that are referencing creepy things, I think you tip into the comedy zone at some point. Even like stuff like, you know, like death metal songs. Like something you would just think, oh yeah, that's scary. A lot of death metal songs, like,

if you look at the words, like, they're kind of funny. I mean, because it's so over the top. Like, Cannibal Corpse, like,

if you look at, like, album covers from Cannibal Corpse, it's like, come on. Like, I'm not, I'm not really scared of you here.

Yeah, they were an Ace Ventura, you know? Yeah, I mean, I'm just wondering, I mean, you know what I'm talking about?

I just feel spookiness. Spookiness is like humor in that you got to be, very precise with it or it falls apart. Yeah, because it's got to be like really unnerving, you know, like the knife or haxan cloak, like that sort of stuff that used to be on triangle back in the early, like in the Grantland era. Or it's like, you know, a cannibal corpse where it has that. It's like so spooky and so, like, scare quotes, scary that it becomes actually kind of funny.

And then you could in a movie. Like you just like wear a cannibal corpse shirt because like it's, fun to say Cannibal Corpse. Like most of the songs on this list, they're either funny or they're goofy or they're just not related to spookiness at all. Like Olivia Rodriguez's vampire is on this list. Again,

a head of thriller, which I guess it did better than that. I don't know. When I first saw this list and I thought it was a qualitative list, I was mad that Werewolves of London wasn't on the list. Because that would, to me, that does seem like a Halloween song a little bit because it's about like werewolves on the loose. And it actually predates that film an American Werewolf in London.

I don't know if you've seen that. Like, that's a great movie. That's like a legitimately scary movie. Like, if you're looking for a scary movie to watch on Halloween, I would recommend an American Werewolf in London from 1981. There's a scene in that movie, like, where he's turning into a werewolf, the main guy. and, or it's before he turns into the werewolf, he starts hallucinating, and he imagines like these Nazi monsters murdering his family.

And it's like one of the creepiest things I've ever seen in a movie. So if you want to see, you know, animal Nazis killing people, I would recommend American Warwolf in London. I might be misremembering that, but I think that's how it goes. Anyway, very good movie. I think Werewolves of London is in that movie, too. It should be, if it's not. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, for me, the best song ever to mention Halloween, like to actually mention Halloween is, of course, my mind playing tricks on me by ghetto boys. And that's like a really, it's not like a spooky, scary song, but it's, I mean, you watch the video, you see Bushwick Bill, uh, for the first, like, it is very unnerving. Uh, but otherwise, I mean, this list is funny to me because on some level, it's, it seems like clearly like AI, like put in a prompt of popular songs, but. Uh, but otherwise, I mean, this list is funny to me because on some level, it's, it's, it seems like, it seems like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, it's, like, like, like, it's,

with Halloween imagery, but it's also so weird that it actually might be a human being creating it. So, yeah, it reminds me a bit of like that, like, oh, I figure it's like that loudwire, like best rock songs list that we saw that was put out in a very specific way to get people mad. But yeah, we'll forget all about this on November 1st after I've taken back my entire costume to Amazon. So before we get, because we got to look at our fantasy draft update. and I also wanted to get to our yay or nay segment here. I do feel like just for some housekeeping purposes here,

I did want to revisit a conversation we had last week about Deliver Me from Nowhere, which is the recent Bruce Springsteen biopic. Because last week I was speculating. I hadn't seen the movie yet. I was going to see the movie the day that we recorded. And I was speculating about how. I didn't think the movie was going to be very good,

but I expected to have a good time. So I just wanted to follow up because I did see the movie and I don't think it was very good, but I did have a good time watching it. So that prediction was accurate. I was in the minority of Americans and seeing this movie. It only did about $9 million at the box office. And it looks like it's going to underperform overall, which I'm kind of interested in that for what that means about biopics in general.

I mean, we are in this, I mean, we've been in this era for a while where music biopics are sort of like Marvel movies, but for the Oscars. You know, like the MCU, what that did for the box office, I feel like biopics were a reliable source or have been a reliable source for awards bait for a long time now. But this movie didn't do that well. And I think there's a couple reasons for that. you know, it's not a sort of straightforward Bruce Springsteen biopic. It's only about the making of Nebraska, which is not the most popular Bruce Springsteen record. It is maybe his most acclaimed record. And going into the movie, I admired that

approach to focus on this one era and to take a unconventional approach to the biopic genre. But I also feel like after seeing the movie, that that approach really doesn't work for this film. It just doesn't feel like a whole lot happens in this movie. I mean, the fact is, is that the making of Nebraska, which is a great album, obviously, but it's like not that interesting, at least not in a cinematic way.

You know, it is a guy in a room by himself writing songs. It's a really hard thing to dramatize. Personally speaking, you know, and I'm biased here because I wrote a book about this, but I think the most interesting part of this era is that Bruce made this solo acoustic record at the same time that he was working on Born in the USA, this big commercial rock record.

And the overlap of those albums and the identity crisis that he had trying to figure out what kind of artist am I going to be, am I going to be the lonely troubadour, or am I going to be like the muscular rock star with the bandana? Or can I be both of these things? To me, that's the most interesting aspect of this era and it's not really something

that the movie explores. Instead, we get this very sort of long or feels long subplot involving a love interest that is made up. Basically a composite of women that Bruce was dating at the time

not seriously, not really committing. And it's just like, I don't care about this. Like, why is this in the movie? Most of the... The thing about this movie is that it's designed for Springsteen fans. You have to care about Nebraska, I think, to care about this movie.

But I also feel like there's enough wrong with it that if you are a hardcore fan, which I am, there's going to be a lot to complain about. So there's like a weird catch-22 with it. Anyway, I'm monologuing about this. I don't know if you have anything to say about this, Ian. I just want to give a quick shout out to Timothy Shalame, because I think he's the reason why the Dillon movie did relatively well at the box office. I don't know if the public is really interested in movies about rock stars in their 70s and 80s at this point.

Like as a subject of a film, you need someone like a Shalame who's like a real movie star to sell it to people who's going to get like teenage girls to come out. Jeremy Allen White, who I think is really good in the movie. He's not on that level yet. Like if it was after season two of the bear, it might have been different because I feel like the bear is way less. in the culture than it was a couple years ago. So I think they missed a window there too. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just from everything I've heard from you and seen online,

it's not so much do I want to see this movie, but do I want to spend $100 to see it in the movie theater? Because that includes like two tickets, a freestyle Coke, and probably going to dinner beforehand. This looks like the kind of... Wait, wait, wait. So is the freestyle Coke like $20 in San Diego? It is $8.

And you have to get the freestyle. You gotta get the reason. That's why I'm going to AMC to begin with. It's non-negotiable. Non-negotiable. That's like part of, like, I will, that is the tipping point. Well, maybe I'll see the movie. I'm not super sold on.

But this seems to me like a absolutely perfect, good enough to watch on streaming if I can't think of anything to do on a Saturday night, not enough to make a night out of it movie. Is that accurate? Yeah, I mean, I would say for the casual fan, for sure, or someone who's maybe not even a fan. it's not something you need to see in a theater probably. I actually feel like it would be a really good plane movie.

Like next time I'm on a plane if this movie is available to stream, like I'd probably watch it on a plane and I would probably start crying. Because there is that thing. I don't know if you've experienced this. People cry more on planes than they do outside of planes when they watch movies. There's just something about the altitude that makes you more susceptible to crying. And I've definitely fallen booked into that. I cried once to Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 on a plane.

So I think if I saw this, you know, the things that made me roll my eyes when I watched it the first time, like all the flashbacks. Like the flashbacks are really corny. There's all these like black and white flashbacks to Bruce's childhood. Because they didn't have like color at all back then. No, they didn't. They didn't. No, no color at all. Those scenes made me roll my eyes a little bit watching at this time.

but I'm sure on a plane, I'll be choking back tears trying not to let the old lady sitting next to me. Or, you know, whoever's sitting next to me see me crying, because I'm sure I would on a plane. Yeah, I think for me, the last time I was on a plane, like, for a, last time I was on a plane that had a, you know, like a significantly long flight. The person sitting next to me was watching challengers, which is a thing. I don't think they were going to shed any tears during that. Me, I don't even remember what I watched. I think, last time I was on a plane,

like I think I watched a, like the Vince McMahon documentary. Oh, yeah. Netflix. You know, definitely not a tear shed for that one. Yeah, it's always funny with plane movies

when you pick a film and you don't realize that there's like a super graphic sex scene in the middle of it. It just kind of comes up. I try to remember, I think it was that movie

the worst person in the world. Oh, yeah. there's like this one scene in the middle where it's like super graphic. And I was like, oh my God, I don't want, because you don't want people to glance over at you and you're just watching like full on thrusting and flapping and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I'm watching salt burn on the next flight I'm on. Right. Yeah, can we get like nine and a half weeks on this thing?

Can we get Last Hango in Paris? That'd be amazing. But yeah, getting back to that thing I was saying before about the future of biopics. I mean, I know, I mean, we referenced this replacement's movie. I mean, that could be coming out in, you know, a few years or something. There's that Beatles thing that's coming to the same. Before Beatles movies, which I don't know how that's not going to be a disaster. That just has disaster written all over it to me, that you're going to have four separate Beatles movies.

Like, what happens if the first one bombs? Is this going to be like a Kevin Costner situation? with his, you know, that like four-part Western that he was making. And the first part came out and it bombed. And, like, now it's just never going to come out. I mean, I feel like, I guess they would lead, like, I wonder if they're going to lead. It's either going to be McCartney or Lenin,

I'm assuming, would come out first. Yeah. I don't think they're all going to come out at the same time. I assume that it'll be, like, one by one. Like, what would be, like, the one to set up the series? Like, what would be the most popular? biopic there's been so many john lennon movies already there haven't been like that many paul mccartney film like where he's the focus of it uh i mean i don't remember a thing about backbeat so you're

but uh why not drop all four at the same time like you can make like a weekend it would be like uh you know barbenheimer or whatever but uh you know you you lock in the audience that like cares about seeing Beatles movies and just like really drive at home and you have like competition of like who you know is Ringo going to do bigger numbers than George I mean that's me I'm not in the I'm not in the film industry so don't quote me on that but yeah I'm I will be shocked if these movies see the light of day for sure I mean like Ringo I mean it's being made I mean those movies are going to come out I think I was just trying to think of if there's ever been a biopic about a drummer in a rock band

where it was just about the drummer. I don't, because they were going to make a Keith Moon movie for a one time. I was about to say, yeah, him or John Bonn. But those didn't get made. I think Ringo might be the first just like drummer. Like I'm just a guy, I'm the drummer in the band.

I'm getting my, and he's obviously super famous, but he's not the most notable guy in the Beatles. You know, and he, I mean, the Ringo movie that I would want to see would just be him. hanging out with Harry Nielsen in the 70s, getting drunk every day. Like the Hollywood Vampires era, where, you know, and John Lennon comes out, Keith Moon, where they're just getting loaded and hanging out in 70s, L.A., like a buddy comedy with Ringo and Harry Nielsen.

Like, that would be a movie I'd want to see. I don't know if they're going to do that. I don't know if it's going to be like the whole life story of Ringo. But, yeah, I don't know. I really, I mean, I feel like biopics are never going to go away. But I do wonder for the kids out there, the younger people, like the level of interest in these films at this point. I do think you need like a shallomay in the film to bring people out for it to really work.

Yeah. I mean, one thing I've been wondering of late is whether we are at a, but we've just like hit a wall with like single person focused biopics. You know, like you're Bob Dylan, you're Bruce Springsteen. And I've wondered whether banned ones might do better. I mean, I know Bohemian Rhapsody is about Queen to band, but it's clearly about, like, Freddie Mercury. And, I mean, the doors, look, Ray Manzare gets one of the best lines in cinema history. So, uh, it's him who says those are great fucking lyrics, right?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. So, um, yeah, because I think that it makes sense to have like a lead, but I've wondered about, and maybe the replacements fills this need. Uh, I don't want like a triumphant movie.

I don't want a redemption arc. I just want to see people beefing with each other and you'll learn nothing. I want like a Jane's Addiction movie or I would say like I want the Eagles movie, but like that probably won't top the documentary or like a 24 hour party people type thing about the Smiths or like a, you know like maybe like the story of like a buzz band like gay dad where they're like on their way to the top and everything explodes. I would be totally down for that sort of deal because or or Or we just need to like fast forward 50 years into the future where Timothy Shalame is playing like, you know, Lil Peep or something like that.

Or like we have a Juice World biopic. Well, I'm just wondering at what point did they start making biopics about, you know, like 90s and 2000s era stars. You know, because we are now, like you and I, we're entering our boomer period right now. We might already be in it. Like we're in our 40s. So we're the audience now for these kinds of films. So at some point, like, it is surprising to me that there isn't a Nirvana movie yet. There was the Gus Van Zant last days, which isn't Kurt Cobain, but it's basically

Kirk Cobain. But I am surprised that we haven't gotten, I assume that we're going to get a Kirk Cobain movie or Slash Nirvana movie at some point. Are we going to get like a Courtney Love movie too? you know, I could see her getting a biopic. Are we going to get like a Pearl Jam movie? You know, I don't know. If we do get a Pearl Jam movie,

you are absolutely getting a executive producer type. Oh, man. They're going to bring you. Like, you need to really, like, see, you know, seed that for your Hollywood people, you know? I'm throwing it out there. Throwing it out there, PJ movie. Let's make it about PJ at the 1993 MTV Video Music Awards.

Or, like, make it about, like, the sort of this, like, the delivery from nowhere where they're, like, making no code or something like that or it's entirely about their ticket master ordeal. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of meat on the bone for like a PJ movie, for sure. That could be a good flick. Let's get a biopic cast here. Let's go quick to our fantasy album draft update.

I have two albums that are out today. One is Florence in the Machine. Their album, Everybody's Scream is out today on Halloween. There is no Metacritic score for that yet, so we'll revisit that next week. week. I also have Claire Rosey. That's an album I picked because of my Mob Deep debacle. Her record A Little Death is out today. Currently has a 79. Not great, but I was behind the eight ball there. She's only been reviewed by the European publications, you know, like the skinny. Like they weighed in, uncut, weighed in. But we haven't gotten any American reviews yet on there. So hopefully the Yankees will pull through,

pull through for me and bump that up into the 80s. But I don't know, man. That's, uh, I'm, I, I feel like I'm going to get blown out this quarter. I, because I'm, right now 79 for Claire Rose. My tortoise pick, that's at 80. It's a pretty mediocre. Um, that Rosalia album that you picked last week, there, there was a single from it that didn't get well reviewed this week.

So maybe I have some hope there. I mean, maybe she's going to take a dive on this record. Are you worried at all? Yeah, that's a single. Yeah, Pitchfork wasn't super into it, but I think a lot of people are. It's a sort of song that is, if you're easily impressed, it's easily impressive. You know, it's got Bjork and Eve's Tumor on there, and it's like opera, but like for the club. Look, this is all true.

This is objective stuff, you know, but I think with something that bizarre, it could boomerang back around to being, oh, like, we see the vision now that we hear it on the album. I think I'd be more worried if it was just kind of more of the same. But, I mean, we both would have been better off picking Lily Allen if we knew what was happening, you know, in the background there. That's like currently clocking in 84. But yeah, I got Kia's hook's law this week. I'm sure that'll do well. But, yeah, and Florence and the machine might put up some numbers for you. I feel pretty confident about that.

Yeah, I do too. Yeah, it's not looking super great for you. But yeah, I think it was funny that you had to choose between Claire Roussay and, like, guided by voices because both of them put out so much music that inherently limits what they can do. Yeah, I mean, I feel like the GV albums don't really get reviewed except by Magnet magazine. Like, Magnet will always, like, GBV is like one of their main areas of focus, I feel like at this point. And Robert Pollard will only talk to them. because I'm a journalist that always tries to interview Robert Pollard He only does email interviews now which is a very sad thing

That's because he was he used to be one of the all-time great talkers in interviews But now he just does email Yeah him and Josh Tillman it's just we are a recession indicator you know what I mean like It's true Yeah but uh yeah it's guided by boy like it's sort of like how like in magnet magazine And it's sort of like what Dynbag Daryl was to Guitar World in the 90s where it's just like every five months you're going to, yep, looks like it's going to be Dyeback or John Petrucci or IngV Malmstein. That's my that's my Ingvee Malmstein casting for 2025. Well, just like how, you know, like Politico, they have like a White House reporter.

Like Magnet just has the guided by voices reporter, which, you know, God love them. I would love to be on the GBB beat if I could get that gig. So, you know, God bless Magnet for doing that. Let's get to our yay or nay segment. This is for all the kids out on Instagram and TikTok. We like to reach out to people, bring them into the podcast, start some discourse online. This week, we're going to be talking about Animal Collective, a band that Ian and I both love. They recently had an album turned 20 years old.

That is the record Feels, came out in 2005. one of the most beloved albums, I think we can say in the Animal Collective Catalog, but is it their greatest album? That is what we're going to be discussing in our Yay or Nay segment this week. Animal Collective feels the greatest Animal Collective record. Yay or Nay, I'll go first. I'm going to say yay. This is not the most popular Animal Collective album.

That would be Meriwether Post Pavilion, which is also a great album. But for the true heads out there, I think there's a feeling that, Maryweather is a little too poppy. Whereas Fields to me has a little bit of that pop juice, but it doesn't get in the way of that pure, uncut chaos that we all know and love from Animal Collective. One thing I love about Fields is the structure. It does that thing where you have all of the rockers on side one and all the mellow songs on side two. And a lot of albums I love have that same structure. Remain in Light by Talking Heads is structured like that. Tattoo, by the Rolling Stones is structured like that.

And while Fields is in no way like those records, it does replicate what is essentially a very classic rock convention. And I really dig that because to me, you know, feels, it has that balance of coming early enough in Animal Collectives career where it still feels untamed and a little naive, but you can also hear the more mature band that they will become later. So for me, it gives you everything you could possibly want from Animal Collectives. in one package.

That's why I am going to say yay to this being the greatest album by that band. Yeah, I did a Animal Collective album ranking list recently, and I was certain when I started, I was going to put feels at the top because it's the one I listened to the most. Like you were saying, it's the final phase of their freak,

when you could legitimately call them a freak folk band, and they were still on Fat Cat, and Mary Weather Post Pavilion is the one that is, you know, the Apple Music Essential, five stars. It, in all music guide, swept every year, 2009 album the year race, which means I can't choose it, right? It's like too boring to say the most

celebrated animal collective one is the best one. And so then I listened to all the albums of chronological order. And I don't know when the last time you listened to Meriwether Post Pavilion is, but like I don't care how many jokes we make about Obama Corps and Adobe Slabs. It blows me away every single time I listen to. It's sort of like Kid A or, you know, Yankee Hotel Fox Trot, where you have it committed to memory and you don't listen to it like, you know, like maybe once or twice a year. And it's like, oh, I remember what it was like when the culture changed. So what's what I love about Merry Weather Post Pavilion is how it is so weird compared to

the other 2009 big indie records. Like even your grizzly bear or dirty projectors, those are still fairly conventional songs. My Girls is not a conventionally structured song, either is daily routine or brother's sport. and I think it just shows a higher level of difficulty to do all the things that Animal Collective had done in the past, like incorporating Brazilian and African rhythms, their love of trance and other deep techno, and to do it in a pop song. And I think that the best thing you can say about Meriwether Post Pavilion is the fact

that it sounds kind of normy in 2009 is a testament to how much Animal Collective changed listening habits. So you're going to say nay to fields. Yeah, I forgot to do the thing that pops on Instagram. Yeah, I'm going to, look, I love feels, but it's nay on the best animal collective record. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first?

We're at the time of year where I'm taking pretty much any suggestion whatsoever for last-minute, your end-list conclusions. And a couple of people put me on to Ben Bondi, no relation to A.A. Bondi. He's a Berlin-based artist who, I'm told, have been doing a lot of ambient-type stuff before, but like so many people in that world, like Claire Rousay, for example, he's transitioned to a sort of emo thing. At least they say it's emo in the reviews. And by that, you know, you got some, like, twinkly Midwest riffs.

He sings like Alex G. And that's happening on his new album, which came out a couple weeks or a couple months ago. It's called Exo Salt Life, but the E in Life is a three, kind of like a little Uzi-Vert. A lot of interesting stuff happening. And the first track in particular, now that I'm hearing it in October, it sounds like a more successful version of what Tame and Paula was trying to do on their new album, especially a song like Oblivion, where it's got like kind of a reggaeton or on piano beat, but it's got guitars and like kind of distant vocals. So it's a really cool sounding record that I feel I'm going to dig into as the year goes on and also as less new stuff comes out. out. So Ben Bondi, X-O Salt Life. So the record I'm going to recommend, I think would probably pair with the album that you're

recommending pretty well. It's called Open Close, and it's by a guy. You might know and love named Sam Precop. One of the legends of Chicago indie rock going back to the 90s, of course, he's most famous for fronting the band, C& Cake, which is one of those groups that like I don't go deep on, even though I suspect if I did go deep, I would really love them. like the records I've heard and that I own, I like quite a bit. But, you know, there's like a lot of music that they put out over the years. And Sanpricop also has put out a lot of solo records and a lot of collaborations. You know, he's collaborated with John McIntyre of Tortoise,

another of the mainstays of 90s originated Chicago indie rock. In his solo career, he's moved away a little bit from the C&Cake sound, which is basically like a rock band, although there are a lot of other influences going on there. And he's moved more in an electronic direction, which is what you have on Open Close. It's this 40-minute record. I think there's about six tracks.

And it just fits together very seamlessly. It feels like one continuous piece of music, even though, again, there are different tracks on the album. And it's this really good music for me to write to. I've been listening to this all week and really kind of putting me in a trance while I've been working on various projects. And it's kind of record where it's instrumental.

If you like cool synthesizer sounds, there's like a lot of that on this album. And it's just really good. And he's just the master at creating mood music to me. Like he's really good at doing stuff that kind of seems laid back at first. And then as you listen to it over and over again, little nuances come out that weren't apparent maybe on the first listen,

but really kind of keep you interested and drawn in. So if you're like me and you like the C and Cake, but you want to dig in deeper, I think that this album, which again is called Open Close, is a really good excuse to just spend some time with this guy's music because he's created a lot of good stuff over the years. Shout out to Sam Precop. I don't know if you're a fan.

Yeah, I mean, I don't go super deep on seeing Cake, but jacking the ball specifically off their first album. Oh, man. Huge influence on the first American football album. So I've been digging more into that stuff as I've been writing this book. Because, yeah, all those guys were like, yeah, we were ripping off that specific song. Yeah, and that album just takes me back to college. It is like a definitive mid-90s, like me entering college and meeting older people that were friends of friends.

and they were like totally connected, especially to Chicago indie rock at that time, and just sharing records that I hadn't heard before and seeing cake was definitely part of that era. For me, and here we are 30 years later, he still put out really good records. So shout out to him. That about does it for this episode of Indycast.

We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks. com backslash indie and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.