Indiecast - Linkin Park's New Singer Controversy + The Latest Album By The Dare

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Steven and Ian open today's episode with some jokes (and some empathy!) directed at Dave Grohl. The president of rock is down this week, but the guys are not going to kick him. Steven then laments the state of the Green Bay Packers in a quick Sportscast, and the guys marvel at the unintentional comedy of Donald Trump in Politicscast. Steven gets really depressed during the Fantasy Albums Draft update, but then things perk up when they address the recent controversy about Linkin Park's new singer and the overall "yay or nay" status of the popular nu-metal band. The guys also review new albums by "indie sleaze" artists The Dare and Fcukers, which brings out the "Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon" side of Steven.In the mailbag, a listener asks if there is an American band whose reunion would engender as much hysteria as the Oasis reunion in England. (The answer is: Nirvana, maybe, if Kurt Cobain faked his own death.)In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks up the new album by Foxing while Steven stumps for the latest live record by The War On Drugs.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 206 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talked about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about Lincoln Park controversy and new albums by The Dare and Fuckers. Ooh, such a saucy name. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He is the mother of Dave Grohl's love child. Ian Cohen, Ian, Ian, how are you? Yeah, I mean, I thought we were going to go with, like a joke about me fathering like a new podcast outside of our relationship and stuff. But yeah, I mean, like, I love the, this was like the perfect intro joke because I feel by the time this is recorded, it'll already have, like, we'll have gotten all the meat off that bone. And, you know, are you kidding? Oh, it's still going?

Well, you don't think that, okay, so for those who don't know, Dave Grohl put out a statement this week saying that he has fathered a child outside of his marriage and that he's working on patching up, you know, getting forgiveness from his family about this. So announcing that he has a love child, basically. And a lot of jokes went out about it. If you think this is going to be like a two-day joke thing, you're sadly mistaken. This is going to be a long time, a long time. This is going to be anytime people want to make fun of Dave Grohl, they're going to bring this up. This is like you're hiding a child.

I mean, before like Drake got his career destroyed by Kendrick Lamar, like you would still say like you are hiding a child. You know, that one did last long. But I think with Dave Grohl, it's so funny because like we talk about him as like a rock ambassador more than a musician. And it was like totally like a Tuesday like news dump scandal. like figuring, oh yeah, the debate's happening and 9-11 and, you know, we'll just dump this out in the afternoon and nobody will be talking about it in a day. That seemed to be the deal, you know?

I wonder, like, why did he announce this? Was someone going to report this? That's my guess that maybe there was some media outlet that was going to, you know, maybe it was like TMZ or something, was going to report this anyway. Because I don't know why else you would announce this unless, you know, someone forced his hand. You know, I have to say, like, You know, a lot of jokes. I'm fine with the jokes. I also saw, like, a lot of judgmental people about this. And, like, people need to get over themselves on social media.

You know, casting judgment on someone else's life. I think that's really lame. I have to say, like, okay, I'm not going to say this is admirable on his part. But if you look at the spectrum of rock star behavior, there's something weirdly enlightened about this. Because I feel like if this were the 1970s, like the mother of this child would be stowed away in a hotel room somewhere. And we would never hear about it. And this kid would be shipped off to Siberia or something.

You know, rock stars in the past have been way skeezier than this. And maybe this is the only standard. And I'm not defending this, but to publicly take responsibility. And it sounds like he's going to be a father to this child, which I, given the mess of this. I mean, that seems like the best case scenario as well. So I don't know. I don't want to pile on Dave Grohl. I'm sure this is a very tough situation that he's in right now.

And, of course, he created it himself. But, you know, we can make some jokes. But I don't know. I don't like it when social media turns into the scarlet letter. Whenever there's a story like this. I think people need to have a little more empathy for our celebrities here. Am I wrong here? Am I being Pollyannish here?

I just don't like the judgmental people. Like the people who are tweeting, Kurt Cobain would have kicked him out of Nirvana. Yeah, the notoriously like socially astute Kurt Cobain, you know what I mean? Like, I think the fact that it's like Dave Grohl as opposed to, I don't know, insert whatever 55-year-old. Jonathan Davis.

It was Jonathan Davis or like Fred Durst or, you know, someone like that. Because, you know, he portrays himself as, like, a very good guy. And so, therefore, like, we have this situation where he's, like, a 55-year-old rock star having a sidepiece kid and he's getting, like, mocked for it. And, you know, I do wonder, though, if, like, you know, critics are going to refer to the next Food Fighters album as, like, their most virile yet or something like that. Oh, man. I don't know. Dave, just know if you're listening, and you probably are. I'm sure you listen to Indycast.

I got your back on this one. You messed up, but you're doing the only thing you can do now. You can't change the past. You're doing the best you can with the present. So I'm going to demonstrate grace. I'm going to model empathy here. I'm going to put that energy out in the world. Because, again, the scarlet letter behavior from strangers, you judge in someone else's life.

You know, there but for the grace of God. That's all I say. You know? We all live in glass houses. And maybe the kid will, like, in 15 years, they'll come on stage and, like, play monkey wrench with him. You know, like, they play my hero. You know what I mean? What a beautiful.

What a beautiful thought. 70-year-old Dave Grohl playing monkey wrench. And the kid comes out. Hey, here to play big me is little me. Yay. See, the jokes. I enjoy the jokes. I like the jokes.

I'm pro jokes about this. but the scarlet letter behavior I don't like. I'm in too good of a mood right now, so let's do a quick sports cast here to bring me down. Ian, I'm about to begin the Malik Willis era of my football fandom after my Packers lost to the Eagles, your Eagles, last Friday night. Terrible game.

Awful. Unwatchable. I was actually at a Bob Dylan show that night, so I'd missed most of the game. I listened to it. on the way home. So I heard enough to hear them lose. And I also heard Jordan Love's Injury.

I was there for that part of the game, which was, you know, of course, fantastic. So he's out three to six weeks. And now we got Malik Willis. Because apparently he's better than the backups we already had. Like our backups are that terrible that like Malik Willis now is going to be riding in on the horse to try to, you know, win one game maybe. maybe we can go like one in four

until Jordan Love comes back one in five I don't know from what I hear like the field was like an ice rink oh yeah it was awful like if I mean there are there are plenty of things that you can look at in this world

and just feel just your your hope going into like a bottom list of this but like the NFL trying to do international games like the players don't want it. The players fucking hate it. The fans don't want it. I don't even think the other countries want it. And like, they're trying to do like 16 per year. And the field is always shit. It's shit in Germany. Shit in the UK. Like, awful in Brazil. And, you know, the fact that like more injuries

didn't occur, like the fact that it happened like within the last minute of the game is actually the most surprising a part about it. And, you know, at the very least, they at least send like, you know, decent teams that people like but you're usually getting like the Falcons versus the Jaguars twice a year. I can't feel good about this win. I'm rooting for Jordan Love and you know, Malik Willis,

you know, college football fans, remember he was, he used to be at Auburn, but like I can't even like root for Malik Willis that much because he was like a star at Liberty University, which you know, I had a lot of feeling. Like he was fucking awesome there, but also it's Liberty. So, yeah.

Also, we just gets worse. Yeah, week one to the NFL, like week once, two, three to the NFL, just like 90% unwatchable. It is so unbelievable how bad the product is. I don't know, man. It just put me in a bad mood. And I get into a mentality where I'm looking at social media and there's people that I really like and I appreciate. And I end up being really irritated with them because they keep saying go birds. The go birds thing.

I can't stand it. Look, I hate the Eagles. And look, every team I hate, take it as a sign of respect because the Eagles, long-time Packer Killers, 49ers, longtime Packer killers. I hate both teams. I hate Go-Birds. Hate it.

And I might love you. There's lots of people I love who say Go-Birds, and it makes me feel bad because I'm like, I have like a 10-second dislike of you because you're saying go-birds. It's all my fault. It's not you, it's me. It's my own sort of pathological need to care about sports, even though I hate it.

It's bad for me. Yeah. The Eagles are probably garbage, too, but, you know, I'm just going to let it ride for now. We'll see. I don't know. You look pretty good. You got the Sequin Barclay. He looked like a beast.

But our defense might just be terrible, too. So we'll see this week, I guess. We should do a quick politics cast. You know, the lightened the mood a bit. Yeah, exactly. the debate this week was was great just great television uh Donald Trump man if it sucks that he's running to be the leader of the free world because if he were if you could just enjoy him in the abstract like if he wasn't a danger to to us as a civilization he is such an entertaining dude

like the they're eating the dogs they're eating the cats just gold just gold, Jerry. Beautiful TV moments. He just has so many of them. And as he gets older and it gets more incoherent, I feel like we're going to have a really great era. Hopefully he doesn't win. Hopefully we can just kind of wheel him out on TV every now and then to ramble.

My main takeaway from the debate, I guess, is that whoever in the Harris camp decided to change strategy from Biden, like where Biden, whenever he talked about Trump, it was like this guy is a danger to democracy and he's as bad as Hitler and it's like Armageddon time if he gets elected. To like now with Harris where she just gives

him the side eye all the time and just like looks at him like he's a moron and she treats him like a figure of ridicule rather than like this existential fear. That's such a brilliant pivot. I think that is the way to beat Trump because you can

tell that it pisses him off so much and it just makes him work. and it also, I think, positions Harris as, like, the grown-up and as, like, the normal person. And I think that's the way to do it. I think this Armageddon talk that we've heard for years, people are just sick of it. And they want to see someone recognize Trump for what he is, which is a total buffoon. And that split screen on the debate where you just saw Harris' face, like, laughing at him, that was brilliant.

That's a brilliant strategy. that if she wins, I think it's going to be because of that. Yeah, I agree that the Armageddon talk or the dangerous orange Cheeto man lies. Like trying to position him as a hypocrite. Like, God, Lord knows we don't need any more of that. Just he's got like pain. He's like, dude, dog, you're a fucking loser. Because the fact is, he is like one of the greatest posters of all time stuck in the body of a, of a politician.

Like, you watch him up there. And it's like so abundantly clear he doesn't want to lose, but he also doesn't want to be president either. And the body language, just like the facial expressions, it's like watching Oasis in their prime turn level, like abject boredom into performance art. It's like him and like J.D. Vance, like you would think they were like this avant-garde art project.

If it, you know, if it wasn't like, oh shit, they might actually be present again. Because I think about like what it was like in 2016. where I watched the debate and this guy Gaybar and Lexington Kentucky and there was like one mega couple in there with like hats like

ha ha ha like look at these fucking idiots and like lo and behold what happened so I can't predict the future but I do think it was interesting how like hours after the debate ended Taylor Swift gave her endorsement to Kamala Harris which I don't know

I mean like hey I'm glad it happened but also does this imply that she was like undiscipline until the debate. So it's like, okay, now I'm like finally ready to. I would actually read a, because I mean, God, we have so many articles of right talking to, you know, undecided voters and like,

people who are like switching camps. I would love to read about the undecided swiftly voters. Right. I would love to hear. It's like, yeah, I have, like, you know, I have all the albums and I paid like $3,000 to travel to, you know, Budapest to see the Ares. but I actually don't know who I'm going to vote for.

I would love that. These are fascinating people. I do want to hear from them. Well, like, okay, so Swift, you know, she puts out an Instagram post, I think, and that's what she endorsed Kamala Harris. And she said that I've been doing a lot of research. And I finally decided I'm going to vote for Harris Walls. Like, really?

You're doing research? Like, what do you read? Like, what Vox article put you over the top, finally? Like, I read this explainer from like Ezra Klein and now I'm on board. You know, I don't understand that. I mean, come on, Taylor. Let's be honest. You are not doing research.

No one's doing research. It's like Trump has been in our face for like a decade now. So I think we all know where we stand on this guy at this point. Yeah. I mean, Taylor Swift is probably just, you know, looking at the finer points of, you know, small business loans. You know, the forgiveness that Kamala Harris is promising if you're, if your net income is like 30. thousand dollars in a state where the climate is between 50 and 80 degrees average on June you know so uh look i i respect i respect i respect i respect the grind yeah well thank you taylor swift uh i'm sure

that's going to win the election probably not but it might i mean shit who knows um fantasy albums draft update i'm barely paying attention at this point i'm i'm i'm the guy in the league that like stops changing his players like after week 10 because there's like no chance he's going to win. That's how I feel at this point. But let's just go through the charade of pretending like this still matters and then I have a shot. You have a album out this week from Nelifer Yanya. Did I pronounce that right? I would say Yanya if I had to guess.

I've never heard anyone talking about. Yeah, I need to listen to more podcasts because there are so many artists like this who we've been following for, you know, six, seven, eight years. And I've never heard a person talk about them. out loud. So I just... Exactly. I need to do more research, get pronunciations down. Or, I don't know, maybe I like the fact that we're kind of like guessing at it, you know? A lot of good... This is good podcasting. A lot of good opportunities for floods.

In the Midwest, we call her Nella for Yanya. We say Yanya here in the Midwest. I know, I'm a fan of hers. I loved her last record, Painless. She has a record out today called My Method Actor. That's a really good record as well. She's really good. I like her a lot. You drafted her. her. She has an 85, which great score, exactly what you needed from her, of course. Of course she's coming through for you. So yeah, whatever. You're way ahead. What else is new? She's putting up one of those like Tyreek Hill 110 yards, one touchdown type of affairs. You know, like nothing splashy, but that's the floor I expected when I, you know, drafted this album. And I believe if you,

well you still got Sophie that could put up 160 you know that's which is yeah don't mock me you're mocking me now she's really good though you know how would you describe her I would say it's sort of very kind of down the line indie rock with some electronic elements

to it yeah some radio head type elements totally yeah like you know Hale to the thief era sounding radio head just really really good and she has a really good score so that's what you'd expect from an artist like Nullifer Yanya, as we say here in Minnesota.

I'll be drafting her probably in our 2026 fantasy draft as well, you know, when the next album comes out. Just putting up 85s every year. Frank Gore status, you know? Yep, exactly. Let's talk about Lincoln Park. Yeah. Which is, have we ever talked about Lincoln Park on this show?

I don't think so. I mean, maybe in passing, you know, I do like the transition from you saying about your fantasy draft in the end. It doesn't even matter to. We're talking about the people who penned that line, rest in peace, Chester Bennington. Yeah, I'm crawling in my skin. These wounds, they will not heal. So, Lincoln Park, they have a new lead singer.

Her name is, what is her name? It's Emily Armstrong. Emily Armstrong replacing the late great Chester Bennington, who passed away in 2017. And they have a new single Lincoln Park does called the Emptiness Machine, in which this new singer Emily Armstrong sings along with Lincoln Park co-founder, Mike Shenandoah. Mike Shinoda. Mike Shinoda. We clearly are not versed in the Fort Minor universe, man.

Man, this is like a pronunciation apocalypse this episode. And, you know, from what I've seen on social media, Emily Armstrong has been very well received by Lincoln Park fans. They've performed some concerts. There's this new song coming out. There's going to be an album, I believe, coming out in the near future. It seems like the initial reaction was quite positive, which is maybe a little surprising, at least to me, because Chester Bennington just seems like such an integral part of Lincoln Park. And you think of that band, you think of his vocals.

And to replace him, he seems like he'd be irreplaceable. And yet they found this new singer and she seems to be accepted by the Lincoln Park community. But not so fast. Because apparently there's a controversy this week, a lot of conversation about this singer. And it all goes back to the trial of that 70 show star Danny Masterson, who, as we all know, played a character called Steve Hyde on the show, which is great for me. it even spells it the same way H-Y-D-E no N at the end

thank goodness but anyway Danny Masterserson was on trial of course he is a convicted rapist just a terrible story and he's involved in Scientology and there was a whole deal there

but Emily this Lincoln Park singer she was a vocal supporter of Danny Masterson she is also involved in Scientology just very vocal in support of him very publicly, even in a way kind of going after the accusers a little bit, just not a very good

story. And she's been called out this week by several people for this. And it's caused some dialogue here. I'm curious for your take on this. My feeling about this story is that it's not going to matter in the long run if fans like the new music. And it seems like they like her as a singer. So I think this is going to probably just be a blip.

But it does make me think, like, when you're hiring a new lead singer, is there any kind of vetting process? You know, like we just had politics cast. Do you get like an ops team assembled and you dig into the past, you dig into the Google searches? You're finding, you know, possible negative things about this person that might make it bad if you hire them. I mean, my feeling is probably not. I mean, you wouldn't have had to dig that deep, really, to find these stories. I don't know, she just must be a hell of a singer that they just thought, oh, this is going to be okay. No one's going to care in the long run.

I don't know. I mean, because on paper it looks really bad. And this week, it looks bad. But again, I think in the long run, people probably won't care. Yeah, I feel as if, you know, this, I don't want to say this is a nothing story. But, yeah, I mean, look, we've seen, like, SNL cast members. You immediately see what they were tweeting in, like, 2013. So I imagine that for something as big as Lincoln Park, there was some sort of like oppo research.

But also, I think something like this, in the end, it doesn't even matter. There was also like a little bit of like static in that the drummer quit, I think. The original drummer, which look, man, I can't. I know what it's like to work a job that like your heart's not in it. but you can't like you can't go up there for two hours and play Lincoln Park songs like you got a that must really be shitty

because I mean even system of a down those people fucking hated each other and they were able to tough it out to do some tours recently maybe he just feels loyal to Chester Bennington I mean we should say that his kid does as well I mean yeah but we should say that his

Chester Bennington's son also spoke out this week and basically said that he doesn't support this reunion or this new singer being in the band and that he feels like he's been locked out of conversations. Like the mic dude, I'm not going to say his last name again. Apparently he's not talking to Jester Bennington's son. There's some weirdness going on there. I should say too that circling back to the Scientology, Danny Masterson thing,

that Emily Armstrong did release a statement this week, walking back her support of Danny Masterson saying, you know, he's my friend at the time and I was trying to help him, but I've since reconsidered my actions, yada, yada, yada. So she seems to have tried to make amends there. I mean, this does go back to, I guess, a classic conversation in these type of situations where is it okay for a band to carry on when a pivotal member passes away? I don't know if that drummer put out a statement, but maybe he feels like it's not Lincoln Park if Chester Bennington isn't in the band. Yeah, I think that, yeah, I think it was more just, uh, Rob, Mike Shinoda explained.

Robb the drummer, uh, that he wanted to put some distance between himself and the band. So, uh, yeah, he didn't show up for the hybrid theory re-release, paper cuts release. And so it seems, I don't know, amicable. So I'm not thinking too much of it because, I mean, look, we've talked, like Alice and Chains moving on with the new singers, Stone Temple Pilots moving on, with a new singer. Like, this is not unprecedented. So I think ultimately, like, Lincoln Park is an institution. And, you know, it's interesting.

Because I think this is, like, the first time they, like, gender flipped the singer, right? Like, where they didn't just, like, replace the lead singer with, like, someone who has a similar enough voice, which I think is, this is a fascinating experiment. Because when I think back to, like, Lincoln Park songs, I don't think there are, like, many he or she. It's like always you and me and I. There's like no he or she on the other end of it. So I think this is going to be like actually pretty seamless. Yeah. And in a way, it is smart because it feels more modern in a way to have a female singer. Because we are in an era where like female pop stars dominate. I mean, all the big stars pretty much are women at this point.

So like in a way to have a female lead singer, it makes the band feel like they're more part of like what's happening. in music now. So that, I mean, that could be a smart thing. I mean, I wanted to ask you to do a quick yay or nay on Lincoln Park. Because again, we never talked about this band. I don't think I've even talked to you about them in private. So I have no idea where you come from on this group. I'll just say for me, I'm going to say push, which is kind of funny because I'm asking for a yay or nay, and I'm not going to answer the question. Because there are songs by them that I think are okay. A lot of their big hits, I think. They're very good. They're very good. good at creating radio rock songs. Like that was their thing. Just creating songs that would go to number

one on the modern rock chart. Like they did that over and over again in the 2000s. And I think that there's a sort of craftmanship to Lincoln Park that has really kept them alive over the years. I mean, those songs are just really durable. I've heard them described as classic rock, which might make people go insane of a certain age. But, you know, hybrid theory came out. 25 years ago or so, like a little less than that. So like, yeah, if you're, if you're 20 years old, this is classic rock. This is a band that's been around forever. You've probably heard these songs a million times. There's probably something, you know, sort of foundational about a record like hybrid theory where that gets passed down from generation to generation as like a canon

record. I'll just say that for me, you know, like I'm a little too old, I think, to fully grasp the Lincoln Park phenomenon. Like, I had never really taken them totally seriously. Just because, you know, when they came on the scene, I was part of the generation that cared about the strokes in Interpol, you know, which was very much like people in their 20s type music. And at that same time, like, that's when Lincoln Park was coming out. And that was like, if you're in middle school, like that you were about Lincoln Park.

So, like, the people who are 10 years younger, than me, I think they look at Lincoln Park almost like, almost like their U-2 or something, like of their generation, you know, just like this huge touchstone band. I really think that that's what they are for people that age. And I'm just like a little too old, I think, to fully appreciate that. But I understand their significance, even if I don't feel it in my heart. Yeah, I have some warm feelings towards Lincoln Park because like a lot of, you know, popular rock fans that came around in 2001, 2002 when I was working at a, you know, a mainstream rock radio

station where we would play all the songs from high, all the singles from hybrid theory alongside the strokes and the white stripes. I mean, even if I was 21, 22 at the time, I think that helped a lot. As far as like whether I'm yay or nay, Lincoln Park has like four or five like awesome fucking songs. Like paper cut rules. So does faint. Breaking the habit. I kind of like in the end and crawling one step closer sucks fucking hard like i'm not yeah yeah and the funny thing about like lincoln park is um you know we talk about like them being like you two or like whatever we always kind of clown hot fuss uh as the emblematic top heavy pop rock record no no you do that i don't do that you do that i i i'm a defender of side two of hot fuss so yeah don't say we that's you fair enough uh yeah i don't

think anyone knows any of the quote unquote deep like the the songs on hybrid theory that aren't singles like pretty much don't exist I can't think of what they even are um but and also I love the fact that like no matter how big budget their videos are they always look like they're taking place on like a kind of a a sci-fi like a sci-fi set of a show that gets like canceled after one season because I think they let the DJ direct all their videos um Never a good idea. Yeah. You know, I'm like yay on the singles.

I've never listened to a single Lincoln Park song post Meteora. But I am intrigued by Minutes to Midnight. They're Rick Rubin produced out because I think the fans really don't like that one because it actually sounds like you two. Right. Right. That's probably the one I would like the most. I think if I heard that record. I mean, for me, like their greatest moment is the opening scene from Miami Vice.

That, that Jay-Z Lincoln Park version of. of numb. Like, that is the coolest thing Lincoln Park has ever been involved in. So I'm going to put that in my Lincoln Park Hall of Fame,

the opening scene for Miami Vice. So just for that, I guess I'll say yay. Because I love that movie and I love that scene. I do love how Lincoln Park are just such backpack rappers. You know,

like they'll, you'll see like Mike Shinoda making these like raucous records type solo projects or also just the fact they made an entire mashup album with Jay-Z. Like, this thing exists.

And the funniest part about it is that if you go back to that time and say, hey, Jay-Z is going to make a mash-up album with Lincoln Park and also a couple of collaborative albums of R. Kelly. Which one do you think is going to hold up better in 20 years? Right. That's true. Wow. It's like the tortoise and the hair of Jay-Z collaborative efforts from the mid-2000s.

All right. Well, on that note, let's pivot to one of my favorite conversations, one of my favorite conversations, one of my favorite topics, indie slees. Hell yeah. We have two big albums that came out this month. The first is the first full-length studio album from The Dare. That's called What's Wrong with New York? That dropped last week.

And then we have an EP from a band called Fuckers. I guess that's how it's pronounced. I'm guessing it is. It's spelled F-C-U-K-E-R-S. So the C and the U-R switch. Because how else would you? say it. Uh, shit.

We're gonna have to get like our intern slash, you know, our, our person with doing boots on the ground, dime square reporting to let us know. Yeah, well, we'll call them fuckers for now. Yeah. Yeah. We can get dragged in the comments if we're wrong. Um, so there's something about like this whole indie sleaze phenomenon, if we want to call it that. Hipe, fake phenomenon, genuine movement, whatever it is.

It really brings out like the Danny Glover and lethal weapon in me. Like I just feel like I'm getting too old for this shit. Whenever this kind of thing comes up. Because the thing about getting older is that you start to see the same conversations and narratives and trends and movements just get recycled over and over again. And you come to the realization that nothing is ever new really. It's just that you're too young. and let's just say stupid to recognize that it's not new.

It's not your fault that you're dumb when you're young. I mean, look, I'm dumber than someone who's, you know, in their 60s. And at some point it starts to bend back. You know, you get to Joe Biden age. And then your brain starts melting out of your ears and, you know, down to your shoes. And you revert back to a newborn baby. It's a beautiful thing. But this dare record, which by the way,

is getting pretty good reviews. Yeah. After the EP was totally just ritualistically panned by everybody. And by the way, we should say for those who don't know, the dare is a project by a guy named Harrison Patrick Smith. He's a singer and musician. Used to play in a band called Turtle Neck, which I think you reviewed for Pitchfork.

I reviewed that album. I gave it a six. And then, you know, they made a video. I can't remember the name of the song, but they made like a joke that like I was texting him. So like I'm part of the dare extended universe somehow. Wow. Yeah. Look at you.

That's awesome. Turtle Neck didn't really go anywhere though. So he reinvented himself as this James Murphy clone, basically. And this record, it is such a blatant LCD sound system ripoff. I don't think it's even possible. Like James Murphy himself. could not rip off himself as well, or I'm not even to say as well as thoroughly as this dude does on this record. And look, his whole act is I'm making these songs about decadence, you know, downtown nightlife singing songs called girls and about being horny and doing drugs and yeah, it's so great.

And I can get behind that on some level. Like I appreciate music that just aspires to be dumb and fun and silly. Especially in indie rock, I think that there's some room for that. On some level, that's kind of refreshing. But this record, it's so derivative of music that already is derivative. Like LCD sound system, very derivative band. And this is derivative of that, like highly derivative. And I just can't get behind it.

And I'm shocked that people are now writing about this guy so positively. Because I actually feel like the EP was kind of the perfect amount of this guy's music. Right. You know, like three or four songs. Like a whole album, I don't know. It really made me want to, like, put his head in a toilet by the end of the record. I just find it to be so obnoxious. And there's something about it where it's like everyone knows.

knows that this is crap. And like that's this guy's out that like, oh, I'm just being silly. And it doesn't really matter. I can just make these stupid songs. And like, there's not a commitment to it. It just feels so empty to me. I really don't like it at all. Am I overreacting? Did you, did you like this record? Yeah, I mean, I'm actually like kind of shocked how much I dislike this album. Like, because, I mean, look, just, you know, the narrative around it, I mean, when people are like, oh, this is so super meaningful to me and like, also this is kind of stupid at the same time, like, look, I've written about emo for the past 15 years. I know what it's like to, you know, hold those things at the same time. But I think the more difficult thing to square here

is that, like, a lot of the people who are, I don't know, not even like, not even, like the biggest proponents of this band, but like the ones who would say like good or bad, like this is important. This is a thing you need to pay attention to. It's like the call is totally coming from inside the house or, you know, your little like 500 square foot apartment and dime square that you spend with like 10 other people who graduated from like Bard College. I mean, it's just I have such a difficult time wrapping my mind around like whether this is something that is taking place nationally or whether it's like 285 Kent. type because like even when you look back at then like 2014 when people were like going nuts about that like yeah

there was like some actual like you know grime there was like there was sex going on there was like danger i suppose but um it's like this album is cynical it knows it's cynical and everyone who's listening to it knows it's cynical and it's not even like you know fisher spooner type camp electro clash um it's i just I'm just not sure who it's even for because if you're like 15 years old and you want to shock people by like what you're listening to, are you really going to go for something that sounds like LCD sound system? Are you going to listen to like, you know, like virtually any rap music? Like to me, I'm just hoping like the faint goes viral on TikTok because like that's what this album is like kind of going for. It's like, you know, it's trashy. It's like low five. low-fi, but like kind of simple, like synth-pop songs that kind of sound like early Depeche mode or whatever. If you want, like, that's my like early recommendation corin.

Go listen to the faint stance macabre. That's how you do this. And I'm just, I think we're reaching a point where like LCD sound system might actually be underrated. No, no, no. I don't think so. I mean, maybe on the show they're underrated because to me, their music is aged like milk.

Like James Murphy to me, I just can't, I can't stand that guy really at this point. I think generally speaking, they're a very popular band. And I know this because anytime you make a joke about LCD sound system on social media, you get like 50 people in your mentions who are very upset. Really? And that are going to James Murphy explain you basically his whole act. I mean, I know that there's been some like recent backlash against that band. But I think for the most part, they're still very beloved.

but you know I mean you use the word cynical and that to me I think really I think that really fits this record for me and I'm also going to apply that to Fuckers as well I just want to read okay the fuckers EP it's called Baggy and then there's $2.00 sign so I don't know if it's baggies

or if it's baggie dollar sign dollar sign I don't know this is a disaster of pronouncing things in this episode so let's just go with it will be a going theme but like the Apple Music Bio for this band fuckers arrived almost as explosively as the music they create crashing down in New York City like a supernova

to serve up electropop made for late nights and even later mornings there's nothing explosive about this record there's nothing supernova about this record these I mean look we live in an era now like where you can see how many times something's been streamed you know we can measure this stuff like this type of like manufactured marketing PRB bullshit. It just doesn't work. We can see through it. And when it gets hyped up to this degree

and the music is just milk toast reiterations of like down the line, you know, big indie music, it just underscores the phoniness of a lot of this music. And it's like Niels on a chalkboard to me. Like his, like going back to the dare, like his whole like thing about like wearing the black suit and the black tie and the white shirt. It's like really, like we're doing that. We're just going to put on the costume of something that was popular 20 years ago. We're not going to change it at all. Like, what is the new spin that any of these people are putting on this kind of music? It's just regurgitating it. Like, at least in the early 2000s, you could look at those bands and go, okay, yeah, they're connected to like the punk and new wave music of New York in the 70s and

80s. But there's something there, like they're writing really good songs. There's some kind of new spin to it. There is nothing novel about these groups. It is just putting on a Halloween costume and telling the world like, yeah, like New York is still important. It's not. It's not. Nobody cares outside of this world that these people have created around themselves. This is minor music. It's bullshit music. And it just irritates me so much listening to this record. I think it sucks. It's not even like good trashy. Like these songs are not catchy. They're not that good.

You know, I don't know. I don't get it. I think it's so empty. Again, I think it's so cynical. It's so unoriginal. Yeah, I think it's awful. Yeah, I mean, in theory, I like fuckers better. I actually have heard from people I generally trust that, like, they're fun live,

which, you know, I can get behind that. And I also, you know, again, like as similar to like the dare, I mean, when you look at like what was happening in 2003 or like, you know, early New York like meet me in the bathroom era where this stuff was happening concurrently with the strokes. Like you, you see the similarities of like, okay, that was like post-9-11. Now this is post-COVID. But I think that there's, I don't know if manufactured is the word that stands out to me, but it's like they're so knowing about it because, you know, the story. sort of stuff that LCD sound system was working with. This was like kind of still obscure stuff. Even like Liquid Liquid or ESG. You know, you still had to do a little bit of digging. But like for something like the dare or fuckers,

like all this stuff is available. We've all been kind of stewing in it for the past 20 years. So I don't know if this is going to like hit in the same way for like a 15 year old or an 18 year old. As far as like the fuckers EP itself, look, I love when people sample dance hall songs.

I will always listen to that. I would describe this, and I know this is like remember some guys type shit, but like if the tough alliance was fronted by, I guess like Fader Fort Era Salem, I kind of like the music, except the vocals are trying to go for this like disaffected, urbane thing, but they just sound like bad.

So I don't know. It's so fucking funny how like we have gone from like people, like Frost children, I don't know if we talked about them, but like they're now relatively seeming like, oh, yeah, this is like, this is the horse to back now. You know, they're kind of rising by comparison. I guarantee you by 2025, like Frost children are going to be the New York band to beat. I just, you know, the test I always apply to this kind of music is, would anyone care about the dare if he was from Cincinnati or from Charlotte? But would we be writing about this as if it was important?

We absolutely would not be. It's all based on context and like what people want this to signify. If it was just about the music and it wasn't in this New York context, this is not exceptional music. It's pretty average. And it's something that I think a lot of people could do. And it's all about, again, people wanting to create something that existed 20 years ago, because we have to go through this, like every 10 to 15 years, people have to say New York is back,

we have to go through this charade yet again. And I don't know, to me, it seems so obviously fraudulent, but I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, because, again, this record has been fairly well reviewed. Pitchfork gave it like a 6.3 or something. Yeah, and it read like a 4.5, you know, I don't know. 4.5 would have been, I think, appropriate. 6.3, I think, is way too high.

Yeah, it was a 6.2 from Simon Reynolds' kid who's, you know, this guy's out there in the world, you know, covering all the hyperpop and, like, stuff that, like, kids are actually, like, listening to, like, you know, rub their elders the wrong way. You know, it's like, I think that, like, 1975 line, like a millennial that baby boomers like. I think that's kind of what's happening here where it's like, this is, a 40 something's idea of like what an 18 year old might be listening to. But we also have to mention that this guy in the dare, he was on brat. So, you know, who knows like what we'd be talking if that, if that one fact weren't true. Well, let's get to our mailbag segment here. It's always great

to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read our email this week. All right. So this one, hi, Stephen and Ian. I'm writing from Wales in the middle of a two-week trip based around seeing a Liverpool Premier League at Anfield next week. Wow. Somehow this email is not about Los Campesinos. The Oasis tour coverage here is ubiquitous. We've seen everything from goofy breakfast show segments to multiple serious reports on the dynamic

pricing debacle. In fact, the BBC Morning Show just aired a viewer letter complaining about how often it's being discussed. My question, my oldest son of myself, both loyal and enthusiastic indie cast listeners, were trying to figure out which American bands reunion would generate the same amount of both excited and derisive coverage in the U.S. We couldn't even think of one. Any ideas? Thanks.

Heidi in Montana, but temporarily in the U.K. All right. Well, thank you. So that's sort of international, I guess. She's American, but she's in Europe at the moment. So thank you for writing in. I think we can both agree that there is no American equivalent in the modern world, right? I mean, OAS is like a national mascot band for England.

And there is no one rock band, I think, that's like that or even close to that here. The one example that came to mind for me, and it's because I've been listening to this box set that's coming out later this month, it's a box set collecting all these live recordings from the tour that Bob Dylan and the band did in 1974. And that to me, in a way, is maybe the closest equivalent to what Oasis is in 2024. Because, like, when that tour started, like, David Geppin called it the biggest event in the history of show business. Which was, like, overhyping it, but it was, like, not that much of a hype. It was, like, a really big deal. And it was because Bob Dylan had basically been, like, a recluse for the previous eight years. I mean, he had, he did that tour.

At the time they were called the Hawks. They later became the band, but he did a tour, the electric tour in 65, 66, the famous, you know, getting booed every night, him getting called Judas, all that stuff. And then he didn't tour for eight years after that. Now he's back with the band. And it was one of those situations where in the intervening years, you know, that tour that they did in the mid-60s just became so iconic and so big, similar to, I guess, Oasis has just attained like a different kind of status. since they've been gone. So when they came back, just millions of people wanted to go to those shows.

And it was really treated as like, this is going to be the greatest thing ever. So that's the only thing that comes to mind, like historically speaking, where it had like an extra special significance to it. I mean, the only thing that I think could approach it would be like if Taylor Swift didn't tour for like 10 years

after the heiress tour. If she just took like a long, long break and then came back. Then I think you maybe have what Oasis is right now in England. But yeah, other than that, I don't know. I don't think there's a good American equivalent. But can you think of any historic equivalencies like for you that would ring true? You know, I can't because, you know, just about every band or every artist, let's say, that ever got like Oasis big in America is a solo artist. You know, like they're like a rapper or a pop art. I think, you know, I'm trying, like the Jackson Victory Tour.

Is that the one where like the Jackson Five sort of kind of got back together? Maybe that was something that was the equivalent of it. But, you know, the bands that got Oasis big in America were like in the 80s or 90s. And just, yeah, I think there is a, there is a possibility that at some point if like guns and roses stopped and like after use your illusion and came back, like maybe that would have been it, but like, I mean, you could see them play at like, you know, like a hockey arena now and it's like not a big deal. So, and this might just be a lack of imagination on my part, but the only thing I could see having that sort of impact similar to Oasis is if Nirvana reunited with a

replacement singer. Like, I think that's the only thing. I don't know who would be in there, but like Chris Nova Seleck, maybe Dave Grohl trying to, you know, reestablish his reputation. Let's get Papp Smear in there. Maybe one of the guys from the Melvins or the meat puppets. I think that's the only thing I can think of that would have that sort of, that sort of impact. I think to reach the Oasis level, it couldn't be a replacement singer. We would have had to discover that Kirk Cobain faked his own death. And he's been hiding for 30 years.

I was coming back and he's going to put the band back together. I think then you'd have the hype. But if it's like Nirvana with like, you know, Miles Kennedy or something, I don't think that would be as big of a deal. But yeah, I don't know. Oasis in England, that's just a very special combination of things. I don't know. That's so unique, I think, that you can't really replicate that.

Like, R.E.M. wouldn't get there, but like, that's kind of the white whale, right? Where it's a band that has, like, not done anything. and you could still get the original members. Or, you know, an oasis is, you know, I know kind of hit or miss outside the Gallagher brothers. But like, yeah, I'm going with, I don't know, like, yeah, it's got to be like Nirvana. Like, that's the one that would, like, bring out people who like, because, like, you just couldn't imagine something like that happening. But maybe, maybe, like, Kirkobane fix his own death comes back. Then he's like, REM, you come on the two or two.

And then they say, hey, Sonic Youth. You two, get back together. So it's a Nirvana, REM, Sonic Youth, Bill. Yeah. I think Kirkobane. Playing stadiums all over the world. I think Kirkobane, like, faking his own death seems more realistic than, like, Sonic Youth getting back together at this point.

We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right. So this is possibly the most chalk recommendation corner we've ever recorded. But I am going with Foxing Self-Texam. titled album, which is out this Friday. I've written about it. I don't think the review will have published by the time this episode airs, but safe to say, I love it. And I'm glad to see people,

or at least, you know, Foxing fans get, like, newly excited about this album after Drodden on the Moon. I would say kind of killed their momentum, like how much of that was due to the controversial pitchfork review. I don't know, but, you know, it definitely kind of framed how it was received afterwards. So if you like to near my god, which to me is not just their peak, but like one of my 10 probably favorite albums of that decade, this is sort of like the evil twin of that record and that it's an hour. It hops from genre to genre. But it's like more kind of screamo. It's like more heavy and unpredictable and abrasive. And sort of like the Los Campesino's album that I've talked about a few times here. It's self-produced. It's self-released. It's self-released.

It's kind of honoring the people who have stuck around. And, you know, if you're not into this band or haven't really checked them out, speaking of reunited bands, this is about as close as you're going to get to something that's sounding TV on the radio-esque in this day. I really am a believer in this band, like having just a lot of talent, a lot of chops. They barely sound like emo at all at this point, even though they've come from that universe. So this is kind of, I don't think this is going to like, you know, push them over the top or make them huge. A lot of this record is about like having the existential crisis. I've been doing this for 10 years and can this be sustainable.

But I do think this is going to put them back into good graces of the people who still care about boxing. So highly recommend this one. Yeah, I like this record too. And just to echo your sentiment about them being barely an emo band. I mean, if you had just told me that this is like an adventure. indie rock record I would I would never even think to link it to Emo

I mean I think that they've moved beyond that like a while ago and they just feel like you know the kind of band that yeah like that would have existed in the 2000s in the same universe as like a TV on the radio or you know other adventurous bands of that time or like a radio head like late period

radio head records they really kind of feel like they're part of that kind of scene but to your point like when you talk the dare. It's like they're not from New York. They're from St. Louis, which is why I think it's been harder for people to like put them in that world. Right. Exactly. So yeah, you said this is a very chalky recommendation corner and I'm going with the chalkiest pick possible for me. I got to recommend live drugs again. The new live record from the war on drugs. This is the second live record that they put in the past four years. Of course, it comes after live drugs, which came out in 2020. That

record took performances from the loss in the dream and a deeper understanding eras. This record feels like it's more about the I Don't Live Here anymore tour. And like live drugs, it's not complete performances from like one particular show. Adam at Granduccio like went in and like assembled these tracks from like countless shows and really try to like create the perfect live version of each of the songs on the record. And look, there's part of me that objects to that approach because I listen to like a lot of war on drugs bootlegs and there's like a lot of really good shows that you could just use a complete song and it would be totally good and it would work. But when I listen to this record,

like the purest in me like goes away pretty quickly. Like this is just a huge sounding record. It sounds immaculate. I actually like it a little bit more than live drugs. Maybe just because I think as a band, they've gotten a little bit better. you know, on this tour. I mean, I think they continue to sound great and improve and sound bigger and badder and all that kind of stuff. It's interesting on this record, too, because, like, Adam's vocals are, like, super impassioned in a way that they haven't been before.

And it really made me think about two of his biggest influences, which are Bruce Springsteen and Mike Scott from the Waterboys. And you really feel that kind of, like, rock evangelist thing that those guys have. in like a lot of these songs. And I don't know. I think it's a great record. They don't vary dramatically from those recorded versions, but I think that the extra level of energy and passion, it just makes this big sounding band sound even huger than they

usually do. So if you love the band, you probably already know about this record, but if you didn't check it out, it's going to be a great weekend listen for you. Yeah, it sounds a big. amazing, like just shockingly good in terms of like recording quality. And yeah, it really kind of revived the, I don't live here anymore songs for me, which, you know, that one didn't quite connect with me, but damn, like this shit sounds good. I haven't seen war on drugs live in the long ass time.

So, and I don't think I'll be able to go to the one where they're touring with the national this fall. But fuck, man, I'm going to kind of, I will be very, I will be newly disappointed that I'm missing it. I am going to see that tour in two weeks. I'm very excited. National. We're on drugs.

It's going to be great. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixedape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.