Indiecast - Mailbag: How To Talk About Music, Best Album Closers, And The Top 3 Worst Songs

Episode Date: March 11, 2022

Spring is already around the corner and the music industry is gearing up for a new season of releases. Indiecast hosts Steven and Ian have spent the first few months of 2022 sharing their music takes, but it's now time to hear what listeners have to say.This week, Indiecast takes some time off of reviewing albums to read some listener mail and answer burning questions (17:39). Steven and Ian kick things off by giving advice on how music nerds can respectfully discuss albums without becoming overbearing (18:21). Then, they discuss their opinions on the best album closing tracks (25:31) and share their picks for the top three worst songs of all-time (spoiler alert: Smash Mouth gets an honorable mention) (45:29).In this week's Recommendation Corner (1:03:20), Ian talks up Karate, a band who is booked for this year's Pitchfork Music Festival and seem like the perfect fit for an Indiecast Venn diagram. Steven gives a shout-out to Goose, who he just called the "next great American jam band" in a recent feature.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 80 on Spotify below, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steven and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we respond to mail sent by you, the Indicast listener. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He really wants to give you a PS5 for real this time. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Yeah, at the risk of alienating a nation of like 1.4 billion people, I just got to say, at this current moment, Jyipur, India, not an Indycast town. We very rarely say what isn't an Indycast town. But if you're trying to hack, not one but both co-hosts of Indycast, you're a bit on the shit list. Yeah, so, Ian, your Twitter account was hacked. Yeah, on a day we were supposed to promote Indycast. Like, Dan, they really hit us where we live.

Exactly. The terrorist won in the short term, but they will not win in the long term. You were hacked. Someone tried to hack me. I got a email from Twitter saying that we have a password change request. And you actually told me that you were hacked right before that. So I was able to ignore that email. But there were a couple music writers hacked last week. Yeah, our pals Chris Payne and Chris DeVille got hacked. So I was, it was cool because, like, you know, I was able to email them and like to ask like, hey, what have you guys done? And like I got routed to it like an actual person at Twitter who helped me expedite this, you know? So if you're if you're not like a big wig like myself, man, you might just be flailing for a couple of days. But, you know, like, look, it sucked. I get hacked. It was annoying.

but also like I knew that I knew it was just going to be like a straight up like PS5 thing for like two days and those two days where I didn't go on Twitter I'm like well there's no point I don't want to see what this person is doing and I know I can't log in

I actually felt like this relief you know like it was almost like having like a sick You were liberated. Yeah it was like almost like having a sick day from work where like you're violently ill for maybe like an hour but like the rest of the day you can just kind of sit in bed and like just not do anything and not feel obligated to do anything. I mean, there's a really bad lesson here in this in terms of how I interact with Twitter where I could get hacked by someone across the globe who wants to use my account sell PS5s. I actually had a pretty good day otherwise.

Well, and do you think that this person actually improved your Twitter feed because, you know, you're not normally offering free PS5s. and now you were and like people it seems like some people thought that you were actually going to hook them up with with a console that was the weirdest part about it like for because there are people who like actually know me who were you know apparently DMing me saying like hey dude I could really use a PS5 hook it up and it's like I've been pretty clear on my Twitter in the past that like I don't know anything past a PS3 so maybe I need to like burnish my brand if people think I'm really really out here, like selling PS5s and using these heart and smile emojis. I don't know. I just think people were disappointed that you, they want the hacker back. They want that person offering PS5s. You know, the guy who's just talking about email recommendations, like, yeah, that guy's fine, but we want the person who is going to give us a video game console.

Give us something we can use, you know? Exactly. News you can use. That's what Twitter should be for. It's interesting because, okay, so I wasn't hacked this time, but my Twitter was hacked. last year. And I was hacked. I think I talked about this before, but I got a DM from Tom

Brian, the critic over at Stereo Gum. Yeah. He sent me a DM. I'm like, oh, great, Tom Brian is DMing me. It's exciting. And I stupidly click a link, and then I was hacked. So there's like this weird semi-regular hacking of music critics going on. I wonder, is this Vladimir Putin? Is he behind this?

Is he trying to censor? American music critics? Is this like a disinformation campaign being waged by the KGB on the music critic community? I'm just asking questions here. I'm not making accusations. Yeah, I mean, it's clear

that we wield way too much power and someone that's trying to keep us in check, you know? There are just some trends that the global community does not want to see hashed out. Yeah, Putin is anti-hashing trends. He's trying to silence American music critics. We are straight glass-nosed.

He's trying to basically turn the public against us by appearing to offer them PS5s. But not delivering. That's the key. Exactly. This undermines American credibility in the field of music criticism. Putin, I don't know what his end game here is, but there's something nefarious going on. I'm trying to think of like Russian bands. Are there any like Russian?

I just remember like Gorky Park was the one that was brought up on Wayne's World. Pink shiny Ultra Blast is a very good Russian shoe gaze band, but otherwise... Was tattoo from Russia? I want to say they were. Okay. They would probably be the biggest. Yes, they are definitely Russian. All the things she said, man, that's on fucking bangs.

There you go. So tattoo, Putin is trying to restore tattoo to, you know, the heights of... indie pop fame by discrediting American music critic. I'm just going with this. Again, I'm not making accusations. I'm asking questions. You're going to fuck around and get us like a hundred million dollar Spotify deal at this rate. I love it.

See, this is what you have to do. This is investigative journalism. Maybe one of our listeners out there can dig deep into this and they can report back. So you and I have now seen the same tour. Yes. In about the space of a week, you saw Manchester Orchestra in Foxing. last week. Yeah, last Sunday or something like that.

Yeah, last Sunday. I saw them this week on Tuesday. So this is interesting because, you know, we don't often see the same tour in, you know, such close proximity. So I felt like we should talk about this a little bit. I mean, I think we both enjoyed the show. Of course, yeah.

It's a good rock show. Weirdly, I had never seen either band before this week. Neither band ever plays Minneapolis. That seems impossible. I was talking to Andy Hull about this of Manchester Orchestra, and he was like, yeah, we haven't, we haven't played Minneapolis in a long time. I know on their last tour, you know, back in the late 2010s, they did not play here. But they played here on this tour, and they were rapturously received at First Avenue. Really good show. Foxing, I thought, was great. Obviously, they were the opening act, so they played for about 45 minutes. And, uh, It seemed to me that they were just getting warmed up. I would have loved to have gotten another 45 to an hour out of them. But they were great.

And I hope, you know, I don't know what the state of Foxing is right now. Are they going to be touring more in the future? I don't know. I hope to see them again as a headliner, though. I thought they put on a really good show. Oh, yeah. I mean, and the thing I've, like, talked about with Foxing before is that a lot of bands from that era, that era, like I'm talking about, like it happened 15 years ago.

You know, a little bit of hit or miss live act, but, like, Foxing is, like, always delivered. And, you know, it really bummed me out that they weren't able to really, you know, parlay, draw down the moon into, like, a headline tour yet. Also, they go on tour with Manchester Orchestra a lot. They refer to them as kind of like their big brothers. I'm sure it's a very financially beneficial tour to go on. I hope they do a headliner next because it's been a. It's been a very long time since I've seen them like headline headline because I've seen a couple co-headliners with them during the Near My God tour.

They're just such a good live act. And yeah, seeing 30 some odd minutes of it, you get a sense of it. But, you know, to play to their own crowd, to play in like a venue that's maybe a bit smaller, I really, really hope they're able to do it. But of course, you know, in their history, something bad happened. them every single time they go on a headlining tour. So I just, if they are going on a tour, I just want them to be safe this time around.

I also wish they could be on, like, one of those bands that's, like, put on, like, the bottom of the festival, like, things so they can make enough money to not have to, like, ask themselves, can we continue doing this every album? Well, I was going to say, you talk about them doing a headlining tour and playing a smaller room. I actually liked them playing in a bigger room. I think for the record they just put out,

It suited them. Yeah. Especially being with Manchester Orchestra. Manchester Orchestra, such a big sounding, you know, epic rock band. And they brought in their set, and it was really cool. But with Foxing, I was almost like, man, I wish I was seeing this outside at a festival. I mean, just because the scope of that music, it just, I think, is suited for that. Especially, you know, Connor, lead singer.

Very great front person. And it's, it's, it made me think about how rare it is now. to see a band where you just have a singer. You know, a person, I mean, you know, someone who is actually being a performer or being a front person, not playing an instrument, and being out there and engaging an audience, that's really become a lost art. You don't see that in a lot of bands anymore. And it's always great to see.

I like that. I like the idea of a person just getting out there, you know, revving up the audience. You're shaking it a little bit. You're throwing yourself on the ground. I love that. And that was a really cool thing about their show. Yeah. And breaking news, Indycast, Pro Foxing.

Do we want to talk about South by Southwest? Because that's coming back. I guess. I mean, like, I'm, like, kind of surprised that it's coming back. Like, you brought up in, like, our little, like, pre-Indicast huddle, the fact that, oh, yeah, can we talk about South by Southwest? then, like, I remember two years ago, like, aside from the NBA getting canceled, like, that was the first thing that made me realize, oh, shit, this, like, pandemic is, like, not going away and it's, like, have real impact. Now that it's back, I mean, like, no offense, like, I don't want to, like, step on toes here because of, like, South by Southwest wants to fly us out to, like, do some sort of, like, you know, speaker type thing or TED Talk.

Like, I'm totally down for it. But otherwise, I mean, who is South by Southwest 4 in 2022? Yeah, you know, I was thinking about that too. I mean, I haven't been there in about a decade. No, I'm wrong. I was there about five years ago. Really? Uprock sent me there.

And I was too old to go. It wasn't my choice to go. And I was fine doing it. But I'm like, I'm, you know, I was Danny Glover and Lethal Wept. I'm like getting too old for this shit, you know, at that point. But I was just thinking, you know, before we went on, because we were talking a little bit about South by Southwest. And I remember, you know, I went two or three times in the late aughts in early 2010s. And back then, it was common for outlets to do scene reports from South by Southwest that you'd send music writers out and you'd see bands and you'd be writing about it.

I don't think people do that anymore. Do I let's still do that? I mean, it's been a minute since we've had a South by Southwest, so my memory's a little foggy on this. I feel like, and I felt this way even at the time when I was covering South by Southwest, that it felt like a little bit of a grift to be writing about this.

It's totally a grift, and I missed that grift so much. Like, back in... Like, did you cover South by Southwest? I never covered South by Southwest, which I'm a little disappointed. I mean, you know, I probably wouldn't have a hell of a lot of fun because I've just been told time and time again it's terrible for the bands. Like the music that you hear sucks because like everyone gets like 10 minutes to set up to play like a 20 minute set. That being said, I miss the festival coverage grift so much.

Like from 2012 to 2016, like you could get away with saying like, hey, I want to go to, I don't know, Boise to see Tree Fort. I want to go to this festival that's happening, like, you know, in driving distance in California, and you would get paid for it, and you could write like a bullshit little recap, and no one would probably read it, but, like, there would be a lot of cool pictures. See, I don't think it even goes that late. Like, you said to 2016, I feel like, I feel like it's more late odds, early 2010s, and this is something, again, that we can blame on social media. I think, you know, the advent of the social media era,

It just made the idea of going to a festival in Austin and writing about all these bands under the guise of discovering bands. It just feels like, is this really how we discover bands? I mean, not like wet leg or something. Like they're going to be playing South by Southwest and do a couple shows and they're going to become stars. Like, no, they've been hyped on Twitter and social media for a long time before that. But it was a great grip because, you know, when I went, you know, to, you know, 10 or so years ago, and I was a younger man, I was a, I was a, I was a, I was a, I was a, rosy-cheeked babe of 32 years old.

Yeah. Um, it was fun. You know, you go to these parties. There's, uh, sometimes there's free drinks, free food. Uh, I ran into Bill Murray at a Jack White show in 2012. I mean, who has it? I also had an extremely awkward encounter with John C. Riley at, at the same show. It was like the best celebrity encounter and the worst celebrity encounter, uh, within about, uh, 20

minutes of each other. That stuff was fun. But again, even at the time, I remember thinking, like, who's going to read my scene report from, you know, Stubbs where I'm seeing the Alabama shakes, you know, like, is anyone going to care about when I'm writing an upcoming band? Yeah. You know, I don't need South by South. What we need is CMJ. We, if like, we're going to, like, bring back an industry showcase. We need like the most like indie slees like who killed it it's SamJ at the Captured Track

Showcase. You know like if indeed we are getting like a 2009 like a late aughts indie comeback like it won't be complete unless we get like CMJ coming back. Yeah I'm at Baby's All right

and Porch is just killing it right now at the show. You know, a reader in Lincoln, Nebraska is going to read that and go, oh, if I could only be at CMJ. I got to go to NYU. Yeah. If only. I mean, come on. Like, no one.

No one is interested in. Society has progressed past the need for CMJ. No, I want CMJ. I think it was just like we can get a lot of content out of that. So therefore, it's a net positive. And again, like, if you're a music writer and you're in your, you're in your 20s, and you can talk someone into sending you to South by Southwest. Or anywhere for that matter.

Yeah, and the editor for some reason feels like, oh, yeah, I want a story about, you know, the Doritos showcase at, you know, the Alamo Draft House or whatever. Do it. I mean, because it is a great grift. Austin's a lot of fun. And I'm happy for Austin, too. Hopefully this helps their local economy. Although, you know, they got a ton of money down there, don't they?

Austin's doing pretty well. Yeah, Austin's doing pretty all right. Also, like, we need people to document the next, like, Salem Fader Ford event because they're still talking about that, like, 12-some odd years later. You never know, like, when the next Salem's going to happen. That's really what South by Southwest is for. Yes, I wrote a 10-year appreciation of that performance that ran, I think, the day South by Southwest got shut down for COVID.

So I like to feel like maybe my remembrance of the Salem Fader 4 performance in some way brought about the cancellation of South by Southwest in 2020. It seems like a pretty clear cut causing the fact there, Steve. I might be, that might be overly grandiose on my part, but I'm going to take credit for that anyway. You're just asking to get hacked again. That's true. Let's get to our mailbag segment. Yes. which happens to be also the meat of our episode because we're only, we're only listening.

Well, yeah, don't get used to it because the meat will usually be at about the 40 minute mark, but we're bumping it up this week because we're only doing all mailbag this week because we have a lot of letters. We have a great audience. They want to engage with us and we're extremely lucky and fortunate and grateful for that. And if you want to reach out to us with a question or a comment, you can hit us up at Indycast, Mailbag at gmail.com. Keep them coming. It's great to hear from you all.

Do you want to read our first letter today, Ian? Yes, I do. So I love this title. Like, Letter 1, how to talk about music. Yes. Very targeted. So this comes from Paul from Erie, Pennsylvania. First time, long time.

So Paul from Erie asked, he wants to know how to talk about music without being condescending. oh, you wouldn't know how to talk about music without being condescending. You might be barking up the wrong tree here, Paul, but we'll see. Let's hear what Paul has to say. I'm honored he thinks that we'd be experts on that. Anyway, Paul, I will be turning 40 years old next month and haven't figured out how to talk people about music.

As a teenager, I recall and am reminded of times of where I have talked about music with my girlfriend, now wife, and is acted as a music snob. I vividly recall discussing the Deaf Tones white pony and asking her what she liked about the album, which immediately turned her off from discussing the subject further. Oh, man. Again, I don't know if this is a hacker. This seems like a fishing expedition here. Nowadays, I work in an office setting,

and the topic of music comes up periodically. I'm very interested in discussing favorite bands, albums, genres, etc., but can become overbearing. Recently, a coworker stated he played in a band, and I asked in the style, he stated, rock. While thinking that's pretty generic, I inquired further and ESP plays covers the gauge's interest. His response was pop music. Frustrating for me, probably irritating for him. So Paul really enjoys discussing music with friends and coworkers, but stating you enjoy listening to

enjoy listening to music is much different than debating the best album from an artist. So Paul wants to know if there are any tips on how to navigate these conversations. We have now become mismanors. So I just want, I want to know more about the scenario where Paul from Erie, Pennsylvania is talking to his wife about White Pony. Yeah. And he's grilling her about, like, what do you like about it? Do you like the production? Do you appreciate that deaf tones went into an artier direction with this record?

What do you think about back to school being the first song on Spotify? Is that, like, bullshit? What about Minnie Maggot? I mean, like, these are the things that every marriage has to hash out before it, you know, before it eventually moves to, you know, a different stage. Do you feel, before we go to bed, I know you want to go to sleep? But before you go to sleep here, what do you think about the fact that

deaf tones were possibly separating themselves from the new metal community by embracing a more sort of softer aesthetic direction? Do you feel that deaf tones in a way felt that they were superior to the other people in the new metal? Oh, you're falling asleep. Here, I'm going to wake you up.

I just love this scenario. I don't have a good answer for Paul because, and I think, because you and now were talking about this, I think we actually are on the same page with this. I don't like talking about music outside of a podcast format. I mean, you and I are very fortunate because we have this as an outlet. We can talk to each other once a week, get all our music opinions out, and then we don't have to do it in any other context.

Because the fact of the matter is, and I think Paul was realizing this, and maybe he doesn't want to accept it yet. But most people do not care about music. Nope. It's not a passion for them. And if you attempt to talk about it in an informed, passionate way, their eyes instantly glaze over. Yes. And they may actually walk away from you in the middle of a sentence if you persist in talking about it. And it's just the way it is.

And you're the freak for caring about it. Just like Ian and I are freaks too. We're freaks. They're the normal people. You're the freak. So you have to acknowledge that I am a freak. I care about this way more. the average person.

And while I want to dance, you know, I want to dance. I want to dance in the sense of showing off my knowledge or talking about it, it's just not something you can do. I mean, it's compare music to television. Like, how easy is it to talk about TV with a stranger? It's very easy. You can always ask someone, what are you watching right now?

They always have an answer. Yeah. It facilitates small talk, much easier than music. because not only do people not care about it, if you do find someone who cares about it, they're probably just as opinionated as you are, and they have their own taste, and they may not have the same taste that you have,

which is almost worse than talking to someone who doesn't care about music. So, I don't know, am I overly pessimistic here? No. Because, right, like, you can't talk about it, really. People are, like, disappointed how little I want to talk about music, like, outside of the setting of Twitter. I mean, like, there is no,

reason at all for someone like me to be on Twitter, except, you know, to give away PlayStation 5s and to discuss with people who have a very similar realm of knowledge as myself. Because like in real life, like I work in an office setting, you know, most of the time the music and like the, that gets played in the public rooms are like, it's almost exclusively like Queen, Fleetwood Mac and Taylor Swift. I stand to gain nothing by offering my opinion. But if I bring up, say, love is blind, oh my God, we can get so much conversation out of that. Likewise, with, like, the people I know in real life who, like, still follow music, but, you know, maybe not the style of music that I'm into. They can't get as granular as, like, the people on Twitter.

It's even more frustrating because, you know, like, nine times out of ten, it's, like, people who, like, think St. Vincent is a genius or what have you. And, you know, that is, you know, because these are people who like, you know, personally. And like, they think, oh, yeah, this person cares about music. But it's like, no, like, low key, I don't think idols are great. And again, I stand to gain nothing from that. So, you know, I think Paul's asking for help in this situation, like what to do. What I would say is just be the one asking questions. Oh, what do you think about that?

Oh, I'm curious what you're listening to these days. Or, you know what? worse comes to worse, just get into reality television. That's going to serve you so much better. That is easily the best career move I have made in my current job, which is to never talk about music, always bring up love is blind or married at first sight or 90-day fiancé. I am very ready for us to pivot to that, should have come to it.

Yeah, I mean, a funny thing about human beings is that they don't like to be told that their taste in music is bad. Yeah. You know, they don't want to have an argument about a band that they like with a person who doesn't like the band that they like. Just the way it is. And, uh, again, I wish I had a better answer for you, Paul, because I think this is a sincere question and I understand your frustration. Um, but you can always listen to our show and you can yell at your, uh, you know, phone as you're listening to it if, when we say something that you disagree with.

We can, we can be your, uh, methadone for music conversation. I, I hope we can provide that service for you. Paul. Our next letter comes from Nathan in Nashville, Tennessee. All right. And Nathan, in his post script, he thanked me for shouting out Nashville music venues. So I appreciate that. Yeah, that struggling music town really needs a leg up. Well, you know, I mean, a venue like the Basin' East, that's not getting a lot of national shoutouts or the exit in.

So I think Nathan appreciates a shout out to the indie rock. rock community in Nashville. So Nathan, thank you for that. This letter is about best album closers. It says, probably my favorite thing to look for in an album is a strong closer, especially when I'm listening to an album for the first time. It can feel surreal when it just hits you with an incredible closer. It's like an enthralling story sticking the landing. Recent example of this for me was Gang of Use goal of the century, a beautiful song that really brought the whole album together. He's talking about angel in real time, which we've talked about on this show, great record. Some other memorable standouts are Jimmy World's 23.

Thursday's autumn leaves revisited and taking back Sunday's slow dance on the inside. This is an Ian Cohen fan Nathan here in Nashville. What are some of the most memorable closers for each of you? And are there any otherwise great albums that didn't quite stick the landing

with the closer? So big question here. I mean, this comes up from time to time. We talk about best track one side ones. Nathan's asking about the best album closer. hard question to answer. Yeah, I mean, it's, this is, if you're the type of person who, you know, our previous mailbag reader talked about, like, someone who cares about albums and like totally wants to discuss it in public and thinks life is sort of like high fidelity where, you know,

groups of 12 people or more just sit around talking about album sequencing. Like, this is one of the main, like, you know, this is like one of the main questions that gets asked because, you know, for an album closer to resonate, it's got to be on an album. And so 23, yeah. To me, that's like the Best Jimmy World song. I wrote about that in Up Rock's Best Jimmy World songs, piece that I did, I think, last year. But, you know, this is such a,

it's such a broad question that I almost feel uncomfortable answering it. Because, I mean, I, like Nathan, like the kind of grandiose, like five to seven minute closers that, you know, take everything to this theatrical conclusion. I also like when bands make that kind of song as the second to last one, but also the, but then the closer is like a song that like rocked kind of harder than anything else on the album. I think examples of that are modest mouse what people are made of, Wolf Parade This Hearts on Fire, Phoenix, second to none.

And those I like as well. But he also asked any great albums that didn't quite stick the landing with their closer. I think, I think about this one far less. it's a way more interesting question to me because, yeah, what albums are like totally awesome, but like you skip the closer because it's either like kind of a skit or just something that kind of ends it on a sour note. I've thought about this one and like the easiest answer to this one, the one that like comes up immediately as the prototype for the incredible album, not a great closer, good kid, mad city.

This ends notoriously with a song called Compton, which, you know, is kind of thematically fits with the album. But it sounds like the most anonymous song from like that memory hold Dr. Dre album. I skip it every time. To me, it just sounds like a bonus track. Like you almost wish it's a bonus track. Another one, poor cow from Peter Bjorn and John's writer's block, Notorious Doug. Wow. What?

You don't agree? No, I'm just, I'm amazed that you're going to the Peter, Bjorn, and John reference here, because that's just not a band I've thought about in a really long time. That's a remembering some guys reference right there. I mean, I think it's funny that you called it infamous because is that album, like, well known at all, like, at this point? Writers' Block, absolutely. Like, man, if we're talking about, like, mid-aughts indie rock, like, that one, like, to a degree that, like, I mean, I know young folks is on that record, which is their big hit. But I feel like young folks is memorable, but like any other Peter Bjorn and John song, like, if you gave me five song titles and said, which one of these is a fake Peter Bjorn and John song title, I would fail that test any day of the week.

I want to say that people can talk about writers block. I really, really do. And I've had Twitter conversations about how, yeah, I just skip poor cow. Terrible song. Are they still together? You gotta believe me. Like this, you gotta believe me here.

I know, I believe you. No, I am, I am not doubting the veracity of that story. I'm just laughing about people debating. You see, this,

you see, for our friend Paul in Erie, Pennsylvania, like, if nothing else, we are telling you to be more on Twitter because of situations just like this.

If you, you will go your entire life without being a single person who either, not only owned a copy of Riders Block, but, like, has opinions about Poor Cow. Paul was probably bugging his wife about Riders Block, and she's like, who remembers that album? Who cares about Riders Block? And unbeknownst to Paul, people on Twitter are having passionate debates about whether Riders Block

sticks to landing with his final track. It seems like the consensus is that they didn't, that Poor Cow, which, again, if you had told me is a song called Poor Cow or Dumb Cow. or fat cow, I would not know. I would get that wrong any day of the week. There we got. I feel like I'm learning something here. You're actually making me want to cue up poor cow once we get up this episode.

Yeah, to go back to the original question about the best album closers, I agree with you. It's hard to pick just a couple because in a way, I feel like most classic albums have a great closer. I mean, that's part of what makes them a classic because they do everything. well. So you could just list all the great classic rock examples, whether it's like Desolation Row on Highway 61 or Visited or Won't Get Fooled Again on Who's Next or Jungle Land

on Born to Run. When the Levy breaks. When the Levy breaks, you know, Intercity Blues from what's going on. I mean, all of these albums that we talk about being the best albums of all time, they also have great album closers. A recent

example for me of an album really ending strong, it's kind of a example because you were talking about how, you know, some albums they end with a skit or a spoken word thing and that's easily skippable. Look for the album with me on the cover. But Don FM, the weekend record, it ends with that Jim Carrey thing at the end where he's talking, he's playing the radio DJ. I actually really like that. I think it ends the album really well. And the actual last song is less than zero, which is one of the best songs on the record. The weekend generally ends album's really strong. He's actually

put out more than a few albums, like, where one of the biggest singles is like the last track, which is kind of an interesting phenomenon with him. In terms of an album not sticking the landing on the last track, I mean, the example I thought of immediately, and maybe it's because

this band has been on my brain for the past couple years, but it was a stupid mop from Vitology, Pearl Jam. Although, in a way, I feel like it's kind of the perfect close. It's kind of the perfect closer in a way. Well, yeah, it's like a deliberate curveball. It's not like, presumably the poor cow example, like where maybe they were trying to do like a kind of a chill closer

and just didn't pull it off. I mean, Pearl Jam was obviously, you know, trying to be provocative with this sound collage that they put at the end of the record. I mean, I'm trying to think of like other examples of like a great record with the last track. It's hard. It's really, really hard. Yeah, I feel like usually if it's a great record, the last song is good. Yeah. Maybe it's just a matter of degrees, whether it's a great closer or merely a good closer. But it's hard to think of bad closers for great records. So, yeah, I guess Riders Block is the definitive answer here.

We're going to juice the Riders Block streaming numbers in this episode. Let's get to our next one. And this, can I just say that this letter, I feel like, was major Ian Cohen pandering? This next letter. I saw it in the mailbag and I'm like, I got to put it in because I feel like this listener is just pandering to Ian. You say this after a letter that mentions Jimmy World Taking Back Sunday and Thursday album closers. Yeah, the Ian people are coming out in this episode. You love to see it.

Read this next one. This is from Pedro and Quito Ecuador. I think this is the first time we've gotten Ecuadorian Ecuadorian mailbag. I'm into it. I think so. I think we've had some South America before now. Certainly, I think Latin America we've gotten.

But anyway, we love to hear from our international listeners. It's very exciting to think that someone in Ecuador is listening to us. I feel like this band is like really big in international markets in a way that we can't really grasp. But my question is. for you guys is what do you think of placebo hell yeah you are absolutely right this is pandering are you going to listen to the new album coming out in a month uh new sloob album coming out in a month at this point their new music just sounds like a pop rock cash grab like they're not even trying to get out of their comfort zone anymore anyway interested to hear your opinions pedro v oh Pedro

thank you for checking in like i know where i stand i got to hear what you think it do you know who this band is, the... Well, yeah, I know who Pusebo is for sure. I feel like we should maybe just give a little bit of background for those who don't know who this band is because it's not like they're the most famous band in the world, but they're a band from England. They formed in the mid-90s.

I feel like they reached the peak of their prominence, at least for me, in the late 90s during that brick pop boom, they put on a record in 98 called Without You I'm Nothing, which has some of their most famous. songs on there. I think they put out maybe a record or two after that that did okay in America. Black market music,

yeah. Yeah, but I feel like that is the big record. That's the one if you go to Half Price Books, you're going to see copies without you on nothing. I think that's how I ended up buying it eventually. Because I just kept singing it for two dollars and I'm like, I'll say I love two songs on that record.

The two most famous songs, which are Pure Morning and every you and every me, or every you, every me. which I can't hear that song without thinking of the opening credits of cruel intentions. Great soundtrack. Very, very much. Like a time capsule of that excellent moment in pop culture.

Do people remember that movie? I feel like that movie's like a little underrated. I really like that movie a lot. I think it's like a great trashy, but knowingly trashy teen melodrama. I think it came out in 99. Yeah, 98 or 99. Nine. Yeah.

Sir Michelle Geller and Ryan Philippi. Reese Witherspoon, love triangle going on there. Yeah, that's definitely going to get a reboot in the not too distant future. I really hope so. Yeah, but I hope they don't detrashify it. I feel like we take these things from the 90s or the odds and we make them more respectable. And we don't take the trash with it. You've got to leave the trash.

I mean, I guess Euphoria now would be the equivalent. to something like cruel intentions. I've never watched that show. It seems kind of trashy in a good way. Yeah. But I don't know, maybe it's very serious. But also in like kind of like a high-minded sort of way where it thinks it's like, you know, kind of prestige television,

which maybe it is. I don't know. Like an A-24 version of cruel intentions, which I don't know if I want that. No. I like it to be disreputable. Yes. Anyway, we're getting sidetracked here.

Are we though? From placebo. But yeah, to me, they're a song. They're a band that has those two songs, Pure Morning and Every You, Every Me, love both of those songs, and I don't really care about the rest. Even that album, without you, I'm nothing.

I revisited it this week because of this question. And I don't know, I feel like it falls off outside of those two songs. Am I wrong? Are you on board with that entire record? Yeah, I'm just surprised you don't love Brick's shit house, like, on general principle. Like, you know, it's kind of like a sonic.

youth rip-off named brick shit house what's not to love um so yeah i mean i like it in theory but like when i was listening to it this week i got halfway through it and i'm like yeah i'll just go back to pure morning i like that song but the thing about like this question is like you know we thought you were getting off track by talking about like the trashification of like cruel intentions and the detrash vacation like no this this album is trash and i mean that in like the most like i mean that in the most loving way. Like, I discovered this album in about 1998. It was my first year of college. And, you know, this was like the coolest band because, you know, they were a British, which gets you like, when I was 18, if you were a British band, you were so fucking cool, regardless of, like,

what it sounded like. That was like when British bands, like when you heard about them, you assume that they would be great. Whereas now you feel like, I'm probably being sold a bill of goods. Like back then. Yeah, they would be. on the cover of NME and like they'd already be huge in England and then always the question would be can they break America? And they would often have like one amazing song or a couple amazing songs so you buy the CD and you'd be like you wouldn't like the rest of the record but it wouldn't feel like a total rip-op because at least you

had those handful of bangers. Yeah exactly. You know we're got we're like you know probably priming the pump for a menswear or gay dad mailback question in the near future but you know menswear is actually a pretty decent band. I would say I would put them higher than placebo. Is that a controversial take?

Yeah, that's a very, that's, and again, for Paul in Erie, Pennsylvania, this is why you need internet friends to talk about music. Yeah, placebo, though, like, what I loved about them as an 18-year-old is that they seemed kind of like juvenile and, like, angsty and, like, really uncool in a way that, like, pulp and blur weren't, because, you know, I would listen to pulp and blur and think I was, like, really cultured and smarter than, you know, like my friends and, like, Pacebo. Like, I mean, they're, they're not an emo band by any stretch of the imagination. They're more like kind of a dumbed down glam rock band.

But, I mean, you make an album called Without You on Nothing. And, like, all the songs are just like these, like, whining about, like, not being loved and so forth. I love that shit. And is the record- It was kind of an emo singer. I mean, Melco has, like, an emo-ish voice, what you're saying? kind of coheeding Cambria thing going on. But, you know, like, I know this album is kind of trashy and dumb.

That's what I love about it. However, with placebo as a whole, like, not only is without you on nothing, like, the best placebo record, it might be the only good one. Black Market music has, like, some just really, like, really cringe moments going on. And after that, like, I would only listen to a placebo album if I was really. reviewing it. I kind of wish Pedro had written more about his own opinion about placebo because he's suggesting in his email that recently they haven't been very good. He feels like their recent stuff is pandering to a pop market. So my sense is that Pedro would disagree with us that they have a

deep catalog. Sleeping with ghosts, man. That's got some bangers. Yeah, I'd be fascinated to hear the discerning placebo's fan take on their catalog. Yeah. Because I, because again, I mean, you, I feel like like them more than I do, and you're calling their album trash. Like, for me, it's like, again, two really good songs and then the rest I have no interest in. Yeah. It's, it's probably, like, to me, what, like, Jet is to you where it's like, you will, like, really just bug out if you hear, you know, are you going to be my girl or whatever it's called in a bar or something like that. But as far as, like, ranking placebo albums and, like, whether, like, how it fits among the catalog. I just got to bring this up because Brian Malko did a rank your album's piece on Noisy. And he put, uh, without you, I'm nothing as number six. That like, it is just insanity. I mean, I know artists may not have like the most, uh, you know, objective view of their own work. But like, that, that's like you either had like that.

I don't even like I got, I'm choking on my own rage here to quote Mo Cislax. Well, and to put that in perspective, this new record that's coming out, which I believe is called Never Let Me Go, comes out March 25th. That's their eighth record. So, like, when he did that piece, they probably only had seven albums. He's saying it's their second worst album on that list. And, I mean, that seems like a very artist thing to do that. Isn't that like, you know, Patrick Stigles from Titus Andronic is saying that the monitor is, you know, not their best record? I mean, I feel like, if you have one album that is talked about far more. more than anything else you've done, maybe just breeds some resentment towards that record and you're like, I want to give these other albums some shine because no one else will. I'm guessing that that was the

or maybe Monko's just insane. You know, that's the other theory there. I'll say this one last thing though, if you're wondering why the fuck we're talking about placebo in 2022, they're playing the Greek theater in LA in this upcoming tour and

that's like a 5,000 plus cap venue. Yeah, but again, I always bring this up when you talk about acts in Southern California. That's the one place that they could do that. Absolutely. They're not playing 5,000 cedars in Minneapolis. Or maybe they will. I'm going to put, I would bet money. I would get on draft kings if there is a category for this, for placebo, you know, tours. I would put five grand on them not doing that outside of Southern California. Yeah. If you sound even remotely any thing like Depeche Mode. Like, you will play immediately

1,500 cap rooms. And by the way, the opening act for this show, Cold Cave, speaking of like bands that kind of do the trashy quasi-goth glam thing. Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to go to that show, but I'm definitely considering

it. Man, you have to go for this show, I think. Yeah, maybe it's like my version of the South by Southwest Grift. I was going to say, this is a scene report that I'm interested in. I don't need to hear about wet leg at the Mohawk Club or whatever that place is called. But I do want to hear about placebo at the Greek theater and all the like 45-year-olds with their synth rock clothes on and all that stuff. Let's get to our last

letter. This is a big one. This is another big one. This comes from Dave in Moore, Oklahoma. Moore with two-Os. Great to hear from Oklahoma. on this show, our Oklahoma community of the Indycast world. Dave asks, or he says, recently you referred to a song on the show as one of the worst of all time, stating that you would leave a CBS if you heard it on, well, in the store.

That piqued my interest, what do you think are the top three worst songs of all time? Oh, man. And then he lists his top three. At number three, he has the Lady in Red by Chris DeBerg. I like that song. Yeah. Number two, Kiss from a Rose

by Seal? Yeah, no. I like that song too. Yeah, I like that song. It's like you're number three, number two. They're both like these melodramatic, lush pop songs. Yeah. I have a weakness for both of them. I can see that they're overplayed. Maybe you're sick of them. But like Lady in Red, so over the top.

Yeah. I can't resist it. And number one, Dave has moves like Jagger by Maroon Five. solid choice for the worst song about time. I'm not going to lie. I don't think I've ever heard that song. Like, I know it exists. I don't think I've ever actually, like, maybe I'm sure I've, like, been around it, like, in a grocery store, but I've never acknowledged. Oh, yeah, I'm listening to Moose Mike Jagger.

You know, I don't personally hate it because it seems so self-evidently stupid. Yeah. In a way, like, it doesn't annoy me for that reason. The songs on my list, I feel like they're attempting to be clever or good and they fail completely. Whereas I feel like Adam Levine, when they recorded Boots like Jagger, did he think that he was recording, you know, give me shelter with this? Probably not. He probably knew that this was just like a silly fun pop song. I think it works on that level.

Like, what are your three worst songs of all? And I remember what song he was talking about, by the way. And I believe this was me. I said if I heard Haley or no At a CVS I would walk out Yeah I think we have to narrow this discussion To like songs that I've heard in a Ralphs or a CBS Because like this is where I engage with

You know songs that I actively dislike Otherwise I don't listen to the radio much I'm like I can ignore all this stuff And you know the worst song you've ever heard Is probably something your friend made When they showed you like their demo in high school or something like that But I want to get honorable mentions that out of the way first because I don't want this conversation to end without

people kind of knowing how I feel about All-Star. Like, I, people really, or All-Star in one week, like, this reminds me of like 97, 98, like, when I was still. Like, that, like, I fucking hate those songs. And I, I'll allow people to like it ironically, but like, please don't tell me that these are good songs. Which one is worse, would you say? I would go with All-Star.

That's worse. Really? I would say one week. Because All-Star is a song at this point. I don't even know how I feel about that song because I've heard it so many times. It doesn't make me, it doesn't irritate me, though, the way the songs that I pick do. One week, though, is a pretty irritating song. I also put, no doubt, hey baby.

It takes a lot for me to hate a song with Bounty Killer on it. This one I don't hear a lot. Black Eye Peas, where's the love? This is like from their first era, their first era where they stopped being like, you know, a break dancing B-boy crew and like started making songs about like, you know, curing the world's ills. Your body is a wonderland. No fucking, like I can't believe that's not even top three.

That's how much I despise the three songs that I'm going to talk about here. And it's funny because all of our songs, I've seen your list, all these songs are from roughly the same period. Yes. These are all late 90s, early 2000s songs. So this is, I guess, speaking to our generational biases, these are songs that you and I have heard many times. Against our will, yeah. In a way, like, if we were older, maybe we would say, like, American Pie or something would be our most...

American Pie really was the one week of its era. So, we both, like, we both mentioned, hey, Leonardo. Yeah, that's the worst. Everything that, like, everything that I just hate about that era. like the dumbass terrible joke referential lyrics that like smarty alt rock production and like the thing that really trips me out about this song is that blessed union of souls the rarest of beats the two hit wonder and their other song was this like maudlin piano ballad i believe which was about like solving racism in america what a fucking strange career this band i know they have this

Yeah, exactly. It's this very earnest ballad, and then they do this stupid novelty song, referencing the Star of Titanic, because that's what Leonardo DiCaprio was at the time. Yeah, I just hate the... I hate it so much. There's like a, you know, there's sort of like this... I'm trying to think of the right word.

Like a Buzzfeed list set to music or some shit. Like, hey, like, only 80s kids will remember this. It feels very desperate, too. The idea, too, that of, you know, the kids. conceit of this guy comparing himself to Leonardo DiCaprio and saying like well I'm not him but

When do we get to hear the woman's side of this story? She likes me for me. It's like yeah if Leo in 97 picked up on your girlfriend you'd be dropped in a second and you should be As a matter of fact a lot of these songs that I have on this list are about like a guy who's trying

to like speak on behalf of like a woman who either doesn't want to date him or like yeah I didn't quite realize that. Yeah, the insecure guy who is, like, the wife guy, the insecure wife guy, or insecure girlfriend guy who's, like, a little too appreciative that he has a girlfriend or a wife. That's like maybe the worst genre of music there is.

No one wants to hear that. It's like, dude, keep it to yourself. You don't want to hear it. Do you want to talk about, like, your next one or do you, let's all. Hey, Leonardo was my number one too. Okay, same. And so, we're in agreement on that. Like, I'm more curious about the rest of your list.

You're number two. I want to hear your explanation for your number two. This one is kind of sort of thematically not. It's a little bit of like the other side of the same coin. There's something called the Power Pop chat that's happening on Twitter. I'm not part of it. But I know that like certain writers on like certain writers or band members are in it. And they all love Delamitri's role to me.

Yeah. Well constructed song. It's catchy. I'll give it that. the reason I put this ahead of your body as a Wonderland same sort of style is that like John Mayer kind of knows that he's

playing this song to like hit on your girlfriend or whatever Delamitri is like the kind of guy who like just shows up to a party with an acoustic guitar just like oh I'm just going to bang out a song here Wait wait wait a second is Delamitri a guy or a band I thought it was a band Wait is there a actual I didn't even think about that possibility Holy shit. There's not a guy named Delamiche.

Are you serious? There's a guy named Del Omeach. Holy shit. I'm pretty sure it's a band. Oh my fucking guy. I thought it was a dude named Del. Like Del the funky homo sapien. Yeah.

Del the Funky Homo. I mean. Of Amitri. Like De La Sol. This is why we're not in the power pop chat. But I'm almost positive that it's a bit. No, it's a band. There's not.

Oh my fucking God. Like I would never. been this blown. I just love the idea of a guy named Delamitri. Maybe,

maybe, maybe I'm just like going to listen to the song differently now. But like, this song right here is just like Delamitri talking about like how he's going to. Okay.

The band, the guy, Delamitri dude, we're just going to assume it. They're one of the same. Like, just saying like, hey,

you know, your man ain't shit. Come like hang out with me. And, um, it's presented in this really smarmy kind of like nice guy style of music um and i like i just don't know how you could listen to this song and

not want to punch this person in the face like it is just like this person who will creep up on your girlfriend just like try to be like insinuating themselves like hey you know like you know like is your life everything you thought it could be like uh i there's just the the presentation of it like i would rather have it be like a motley crew or pantera type song where it's just like very overt about its intentions, but, yeah. Roll to me is almost like a new metal title. I mean, that could be like Olympiscuit. I guess I'm thinking about the song Roland.

But like roll to me could be in the same genre of song. I mean, to me, like, this isn't my favorite song, but I mean, the worst thing I would say about it is that it's a harmless song. Like, it just seems like fun radio candy to me. I actually like the Delmetry song, The Last to Know. I think that's them. I was about saying, is that him? No, it's them.

They're a band. Yeah, yeah. I think that was their first hit. I like that song more than this one, but I don't mind this song. So I would dispute this on your list. My number two, I think, is indisputably terrible. And it actually rivals Hey, Leonardo as my most hated song. And that's Follow Me by Uncle Cracker.

Oh, man. This song is so, I mean, you want to talk about Smarming. This is the smar-meas song Made by a guy who has a career because of kid rock He's a less talented version of kid rock His name's Uncle Cracker for crying out loud I mean Jesus Like you know that that Uncle Cracker

Has like some insane clown posse type rap rock Going on in their past And that's why they're named Uncle Cracker I gotta say though You can get away with murder in the 90s man You call yourself Uncle Cracker Are you kidding me? With a K yeah

With a K It's like, geez, Louise. You know, I don't want to, I mean, I don't know if he's flying Confederate flags at his show or anything like that. I mean, I wouldn't put it past them because he's garbage. This song, though, not only is it terrible, not only is it smarmy, but it is one of those songs that I feel like fits in any format. Yes. You could have a country radio station on. You could have an alt-rock station on.

You could have a pop station on. All these motherfuckers want to play Follow Me by Uncle Cracker. You can't get away from it. So I almost feel like, hey, Leonardo is 1A for me, but this is like one B. It's like a battle in my mind for what song I hate more. Oh, but now that you mention it, like I did it all summer long by Kid Rock has to, like, that should have been on my list. I'm not done talking about my list, but all summer long is so much worse to me because

like, hey, remember how much you like werewolves of London and Sweet Home Alabama, that whole kind of pivot to like quasi right wing race. racism that kid rock did. But like that song, I feel like I was able to avoid for the most part. You know, a song like Follow Me, that has stalked me for over 20 years. I just feel like it was ubiquitous. You know, it came out at the time where I was listening to the radio a lot, so I heard it a lot when it came out. And it is a song, you know, to go back to our criteria that I will hear at a Walgreens or a CVS or a grocery store.

Like, it just pops up because it's just one of those songs. It's like a cross-format hit. So somebody out there loves that song. But yeah, it's the worst. All right. Or it's the second worst. So what's your last worst song of all time? I feel like this one's going to be controversial.

Two Princes is a song that, again, it's a very whiny, insecure guy trying to convince some woman, like, hey, drop this zero and get with the hero. This song does not shut the fuck up. Like, every, like, there is not a single moment where Chris Barron, like, God bless you. But, like, he just does not shut the fuck up the entire song. It's got the worst snare sound I've ever heard in my life. It's got that scat solo. And here's the thing about, like, spin doctors that really stands out in retrospect. Like, we all know, like, what the, like, the plot of two princes is.

They have another song on that album called How Could You Want Him when you know you could have me? which is a difference on than Little Miss Can't Be Wrong or Jimmy Olson's blues about like how Superman is stealing Lois Lane Like I don't know how Maybe because it just hasn't had much of an influence

But like this is way more of an in-cell anthem album Than Pinkerton, you know? Yeah, I mean, I don't think this is a controversial choice I mean I think a lot of people hate this song I had this album When I was a... Oh, I had it too! I bought a pocketful of cryptocurrency

tonight, because I think I like the song Little Miss Can't Be Wrong. And I don't remember what I thought of Two Princes. That might have been like when my fandom started to go the other direction. But yeah, a lot of misogyny on that record. Like they did that like women, you know. Also, Clear Patras Cat, like one of the actual worst songs I've ever heard from like their flop followout album. I mean, I'm a little interested in Spin Doctors because they came out of that era, like where jam bands... Hort tour, baby.

Yeah, not just Horde tour, but like having actual pop hits like Blues Traveler, Rusted Root, you know, that whole generation of bands, that you could be a bearded guy in a tie-died shirt talking about how you don't like women, and then radio loved it for some reason. You know, like this is just like a two or three-year window where that was possible. So yeah, I mean, that song is garbage. You never need to hear that song again. So, yeah, I don't think that's a controversial pick. I think Roll to me is a more controversial pick. My last pick, I don't know if people remember this song, but it comes out of the same era. Do you remember the song Lullaby by Sean Mullins?

Oh, yeah. It's sort of like the kind of norm core version of Butthole Surfer's Pepper. I would have never described it that way, but I understand what you're saying. How else could possibly describe it? Because there's like a spoken word verse, and Sean Mullins has a very kind of growly, raspy voice. And he's telling this slice of life story in the verse. And then he sings the chorus, and it's this, you know, he says, Everything's going to be all right.

It's like this corny as hell chorus. Him and John Mayer were like kind of tight back then. Were they? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Did Mullins give Mayor the ups? Did he help get John Mayer in there?

And then John Mayer just leave Sean Mowens in the dust. He's like, Mayor's like, hey man, I've got this record room for squares and I got another album ready to go. What do you got? And Mowens is still just plucking lullaby. He's like, I don't know. This is all I got. The deal was that, like, Sean Mullins was, like, not interested in becoming famous, but, like, John Mayer was. Like, I've read that, like, that's an actual thing.

So you can read up on it. I can't remember where it was published. But yeah, there are stories about that. I agree with Sean Mowens. He should have never become famous. He should have never released this song. Terrible song. Are you going to have a defensive lullaby?

Am I off track here? I don't like it. But it doesn't bother me for some reason. Like, I don't, I mean, I don't like that talking and then kind of, that like kind of smarmy acoustic like late 90s sound but I'm like indifferent to it I'm very surprised you have that much negative feeling towards it I think again this comes up because we're picking all these songs are from around the same era and I you know I worked at my school paper in the late 90s and we would always listen to top 40 radio for for some reason so these songs are just

burned into my consciousness and it just it makes me hate them in a way that I don't hate that kid rock song we were talking about all summer long because while that is demonstrably worse probably than maybe any of the songs we talked about, that's just an era where I could easily tune that out.

I don't know if I've ever heard the complete all summer long. I think I probably have heard it on the radio and I was excited because I thought it was wear wolves of London and then I hear kid rock's voice and I'm like that's what makes it worse. I'm out of here.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, well, it's not worse than Hay Leonardo, though. I still think Hay Leonardo, in a death match of worse songs, I think even that beats all summer long. Oh, and I guarantee that. I almost guarantee that Blessed Union of Souls is going to catch wind of our conversation. Well, they can always come on. Yeah.

Come on, Blessed Union of Souls. We're ready for you. Yeah. You've now reached the fire of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talked about something that we're into this week. why don't you go first? So, yeah, one of the news items that we didn't get into much here is that Pitchfork Music Festival announced its lineup this past week.

I don't think I'm going to be able to go this year. The timing's just not great. I was kind of hoping it would be in September again because of the weather was nicer and you could watch football during lulls. But one of the bands that I was like absolutely shocked to see on the lineup was karate, who's getting back together for a couple of shows in like Chicago, L.A., New York. They're a band from late, you know, mid-90s, late 2000s, considered kind of quasi-emo, but they added a little bit of like post-rock, some jazz in there as well.

I kind of text this morning from a pitchfork editor Jeremy Larson saying they seem like the perfect Indycast Venn diagram. Look, I don't know what kind of crowd this band is going to draw on the same day that like, you know, Japanese breakfast, Lucy Dacis and like Misskyer playing. That said, there's a lot to rediscover with this band. They had, they only recently got back on Spotify. There was a reissue campaign for them. And this is just like a cool band that if you're into the stuff we talk about these days, you know, like Young Jesus or, you know, Caroline, which I talked about in a previous episode. These guys, and maybe even Black Country New Road. Karate kind of does that sort of thing, but more like that low-fi late 90s sound. It's

I can guarantee that if you listen to IndyCast, you might be into this band, but you probably haven't discovered them because they've just been really obscured, not on streaming. Now they are. So karate, check it out. I think you might get into it. So I am going to do some self-promotion this week in Recommendation Corner. I wrote a big feature this week about a band called Goose that is the next big American jam band. and it's a lengthy feature. I talked to the band.

I talked to some people around the band. Ezra K.Nig is quoted in my story. And it's a really fascinating, I think, story about a band that is actually really popular at the moment. They just played their first arena show last month. They're going to be playing Radio City Music Hall for two nights in June. They've already sold out a night. They're playing Red Rocks in August. They've already sold out that show.

So talking about the band and also talking about something that I'm really, interested in, which is the invisible wall that exists between the indie world and the jam world, because this band is influenced by indie legacy acts, Boni Vair, Fleet Foxes, again, there's some Vampire Weekan in there. And yet, they're not a part of that at all. There's a little bit of goose versus geese talk in my story. There might be a feud viewing there. But yeah, I just think it's fascinating, and we talk about this on the show, about bands that get covered and get buzz and bands that don't and how there's sometimes a disparity that exists between the conversation

about a particular band and their actual real world footprint. And I think Goose is a fascinating example of that. So that's on Uprocks right now. I encourage you to check that out and also check out Goose. I think that they're really good band. They actually have a record coming out in June that I think is really good, especially for a band that isn't geared necessarily to recording live.

Would you say that it's their Billy Breeves? You know, it's funny that you say that because I actually do think that there's some parallels to Billy Breeds in that it was also recorded in upstate New York. And it feels like a record. It doesn't feel like a band playing live in a studio. It feels produced in a way that I think actually brings out something different in the band's music that you don't get from hearing them play live. So if you don't know Goose, read my story. I think you'll find it interesting. If you do know Goose and I think there are some Indycast people out there who do know this band,

check it out. I think you'll maybe learn a bit more about their background. Otherwise, that about does it for our episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixedape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie. and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.