Indiecast - Mailbag: Indie Rock Workout Regimens, TV On The Radio, And More

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Indiecast would not have a podcast if not for our listeners. So Indiecast like to make sure that they are included in the discourse in each episode via our Mailbag segment. And in this episode, Steve and Ian go even deeper into the bag (26:57).Listeners did not disappoint. They learned, for instance, that one popular indie rock band apparently does hot yoga (27:27)! They also delved into the prospects for a TV On The Radio revival (40:23), the best music message boards in which to lurk, and what contemporary artists will still be making great music in their 80s, like John Cale with the recent Mercy (31:07).Before the Mailbag, they bantered about the recent album by Lil Yachty, Let's Start Here, and the history of rappers engaging with psychedelic rock (:24). Is it possible that the only genre that matters for listeners ages 16 to 24 is "music that sounds good when you are on drugs"? After that they parsed the latest class of nominees for the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame, which looks especially loaded this year (10:50). (Kate Bush seems like a lock, while Steve is hoping that Warren Zevon can sneak in the back door of the Rock Hall.) Finally, they pay tribute to the late great Tom Verlaine of Television, who passed away this week at the age of 73.In Recommendation Corner (56:09), Ian reps for the latest Ladytron record, Time's Arrow, while Steve enthuses about his favorite album of recent weeks, the jangle rock gem Dead Meat by British band The Tubs.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 124 subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We do albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we respond to letters from you, the Indycast listener. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's my favorite hip-hop spin on psychedelic rock. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Last October, Steve refused to dedicate an episode to I took the walk to Poland. but now we're finally getting the Yadi cast that the people have demanded. Yeah, we're talking about Little Yadi here. Wait, I said Little Yadi. It's a little Yachti. We are totally not prepared to do a Yachti cast. It would be funny if there was a rapper that just did like the Little, you know,

because everyone's got the Lil. I'm thinking like Little Brother. Like Little Brother would have been a rap group that we would have indie casted if this existed in 2006. Yeah, I could see that happening. So in the banter segment here to kick things off, we're going to talk about the Lil Yadi record that dropped last week. It's called Let's Start Here. And I have to admit that this record really wasn't on my radar until people were tweeting at us being like, why aren't you talking about Lil Yadi?

Because he's got every psychedelic indie dude from the last 10 years on this record. What's the litany? I know like the unknown mortal orchestra guys on the record. Yeah, that's like the base level. If you have like unknown mortal orchestra, that means you have been paying attention. Underrated band, you know. But I think they got like the other guy from chairlift,

like not Caroline Polichick, but the other guy. I think they've got like Magdalena Bay, which, you know, is a more recent act. But, you know, they're still kind of in that realm. I didn't like Alex G on here or something like that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Alex G's on here.

You know, I see this sometimes in the indie music discourse circles where there's people that want to start a rivalry between unknown mortal orchestra and Tame and Pala. Yes. That like unknown mortal orchestra is, I think, in the minds of some, like the thinking man's modern indie psychedelic. Actually, I mean, you have unknown mortal orchestra, but then you've got, if you want to go real deep, Then you're going into Dunyan area. Oh, absolutely. Dunian is the one.

And I like Dunian, by the way. But again, there's no mystery why Tame and Paula is more popular. They sing in English for one thing. And they're writing very catchy songs. Dunian is more of like head music with like amazing drum sounds. And I say that complimentary because I love the drum sounds on Dunian records. But anyway, this little Yaddy record. I keep saying Little Yaddy

I think I'm going to start calling him Little Yadi I think that's going to be my affectation with Little Yaddy it's going to be my bit with him You got this going in our outline Yes Sort of the history of like Hip Hop engaging with psychedelia

Yeah Because there's a long history of this And yet Similar to like the monoskin conversation we had Like where Whenever there's like a a caricature of a rock band that comes out, people have to write the think piece

about whether rock is back, as if there's not already, like, a ton of bands like that. There's a similar thing, like, with hip-hop engaging with psychedelia, where anytime it happens, it's like the monolith in 2001. Like, people are just, like, amazed that no one has thought of this before, but, I mean, this goes back at least 20 years, right?

And more so. I mean, I think back to, you know, my friends in Jewish youth group, who weren't listening to like Dave Matthews or Fish. Like they were the exact type of people who would listen to Wu Tang and Nas, but like also Pink Floyd in the Doors. I think that like I listened to exclusively hip hop except for maybe a little bit of psych rock and like no other forms of guitar music is definitely a type of guy. I mean, I'm thinking of like alchemist, you know, a guy who grew up in Beverly Hills. Like he produces like 85% of like the rap records that end up on critics lyrics.

He's digging in the crates for like Albanian private press, psych rock or whatever. And I mean, that's just like kind of like 97 and like modern day. But like we're not that far removed from a time when like AASAP Rocky was viewed as this visionary because he had like James Blake and Tame and Paula on his record. It's like like he has the same taste as like basically every single person who went to Coachella in the 2010s. And I mean, for people of our age, we got to bring up a couple records. First of which is Edon's Beauty and the Beat, like easily one of the, one of the one of, one of like my like top three I cannot believe a best new music review inspired me to pay $18 for this. This thing fucking sucks. But we got to talk about like the.

Oh, man. I, you know, I haven't listened to that record a long time. I remember having some affection for that back of the day. Was that like 2004? I hated that so much. I hate... Well, because you had that album, you had the common record,

Electric Circus. Electric Circus, yes. You had phrenology, the Roots record, which had definitely some psychedelic elements to it. And it's interesting with those two records

because I think Questlove was also involved in the Electric Circus. Oh, yeah. Because he had a quote this week where he was saying that the little Yadi record makes him excited

about the future of music. And it just made me laugh a little bit because it's like, oh yeah, hip hop and psychedelia coming together. It was the sound of the future in 2002. It's the sound of the future in 2023. I mean, to me, what this showcases is what I think is a very obvious trism. You know, we always wanted to split music into genres. This is hip-hop.

This is rock. This is psychedelia, whatever. The only, I think, genre that matters if you're between the ages of 16 and 24 is music to take drugs to. That's the only genre that people that age really like and that is the unifying thing here. That is why

the kids you were talking about that you grew up with they listen to Wu-Tang and they listen to Pink Floyd because you can smoke weed to either band. And that's the only thing that matters here and that's the unifying thing

and like the little Yadi record it's like clearly like a very kind of druggy sounding record to me which is why in a way in a way, you know, the Tame and Pala comparisons, because Kevin Parker's like one of the only psych rock guys who's not on

this album, but I see Tamin Pala comparisons pop up a lot. But like Tame and Pala to me is not a very druggie band. You know, even though they get called psychedelia, like they're like the sober psychedelic band. You know, because, especially as they progress, because, you know, as Kevin Parker

becomes more of a tune smith. Right. You know, because like this Lil Yadi record, I think, is way vibeier than a typical Tame and Paula record. Like, there's not a lot of, like, punchy songs on here. It's like a lot of seven-minute, just atmospheric, soundscapey type stuff. Your vibes. Yeah, and like, honestly, Tame Impala doesn't really do that. There's, like, maybe a little bit of that on inner speaker.

But Kevin Parker, for the most part, is. like a tune smith. Like, he's not going to do, like, the 10-minute, just vibe out. No real melody type song. Yeah. I think it's interesting that you mentioned that, like, for, you know, the demographic of 1624, like, you're either, you're going to listen to music to take drugs to. Like, you're either that or you're, like, centering your identity around music to not take drugs to.

Like, you're either into that stuff or you're into, like, hardcore or, like, things like that. I guess. I didn't hang out with the hardcore kids. I hung out with the drug-taking kids, so I can't speak to the hardcore thing as much. I mean, they definitely exist. And I mean, with this album, you know, I gave it an honest listen because, like, frankly,

I love how people, you know, aside from, like, the people who think that this is this amazing innovation, this unforetold hybrid of hip-hop and psych rock, you know, there are those people who are easy to make fun of. And then there are the people who were like, you know, this is stolen valor. It's like the same sort of like argument people like pop punk kids made against machine gun Kelly. Like we have to be out here defending the honor of like Little Dragon or like Crabangbin or like Melody's Echo Chamber. Like these acts that like fill up every single third line and every single like, you know, music festival.

It's like I'd rather hear a little Yachty do it than, you know, any of those bands. because, you know, it's going to be, I don't know, at least interesting. I don't think he, he takes this seriously, but it's not, you know, it's not like, oh, I need to, like, honor and respect, vibey, you know, psychedelic rock. That's good for people to, you know, take drugs to 3 o'clock in the afternoon at, like, Austin Psych Fest. Yeah, I mean, to me, I always find it heartwarming when I see 15-year-olds wearing Dark Side of the Moon T-shirts or Dors T-shirts.

Yeah. I feel like that's. speaks to a desire when you're a certain age to break on through, if you were, you know, that you want to like go to other realms, you want to explore inner space, you know, and I think that's cool. And it's like, you know, I could be the old guy and chida record, like the little Yadi record. But there's a part of me who was like, yeah, if I was 21, you know, and I was unaware of

a lot of this music, I think it would be mind-blowing. And I think it's cool that people are going to maybe start here and they're going to go to other places. You see what you did there. I did. That was an unintentional play on the album title. That's because I'm so deep in this game that I can't help doing puns with album titles. Do you want to talk about the Rock Hall nominations quick? Yeah, I do want to talk about how let's start here put like a little Yadi immediately on the short list.

They were like, we normally say you have to be 25 years after the release of your first record. I've literally never heard the combination of psych rock and hip hop. Like, little yadi, like, we have your own. We got to make our own wing for you. It's like, Brian Wilson, just throw pet sounds in the garbage can. What the fuck is this? We've got a new standard bear. Little Yaddi's figured out how to combine psychedelic music and hip hop.

This is the sound of the future. It's been the sound of the future of the past as well, but now it's really the sound of the future. So we'll put him in the rock hall. So we'll talk quickly about the Rock and Roll Hall fame because this isn't really an indie rock subject, but it's sort of an interesting banter topic. Because the nominees were announced

the morning that we're recording here. We're recording on Wednesday morning, February 1st. And I'm a rock hall voter, Ian, if you don't know that. Have I said that on this show before? I think I have. You have said that more than once. I don't think you're trying to stun on me in any way. I'm not.

I'm not. I'm just saying that I look at this list, and I have to say that this is like a great class of nominees, and I feel bad because I know I'm going to end up not voting for people that I would have voted for in other years. So you have Kate Bush, who's been nominated like the last several years. She doesn't get on this year, boy. Yeah, that seems like a lot. You have Cheryl Crow, you have Missy Elliott, Iron Maiden, Joy Division slash New Order. So they're treating that as one band.

Is that the first time they've done that? I don't know. It seems, I mean, it makes sense that if you would put one in, you should put the other in. Anyway, Cindy Lopper, George Michael, Willie Nelson. He's not in? Well, they're just now putting in all of these country icons, I feel like. I mean, Johnny Cash has been in, but, you know, they just put Dolly Parton in. So I feel like this is following that up.

Rage Against the Machine, another longtime nominee, Sound Garden. The Spinners, Great Soul group from the 70s. A tribe called Quest, the White Stripes, and my personal favorite, although I suspect he's going to get the least amount of votes. Warren's Yvonne. There's really no duds here, I don't think. You know, there's people that I think are more qualified than others, but sometimes you get these classes and you're like, eh, no, I'm not that excited about that person. I feel like I would vote for like 90% of these people, but you only get to vote for

five of them. Like, do you know what, like, I don't know if you remember everyone I just said, like, if you had a vote, like, who would be the locks for you? Well, do you have any locks? I mean, I think I would put, Tribe Call Quest is not like, not my favorite hip hop group. That's another story.

But, you know, they should be in. And I think that, I mean, Kate Bush, like Missy Elliott, like just an unimpeachable early run. But, you know, then you get into the conversations about like what's rock and roll, whatever. Soundgar, I just like Soundgarten a lot. Like, they're my favorite band of this group.

But I do want to, like, I would vote definitely for Joy to Vest. new order only because I love this precedent that it sets. Like, by putting them together, which is sensible, like, this implies, like, atrocity exhibition and Rock the Shack are, like, the product of the same group. Like, it, like, I don't think Wu-Tang is in there, but, like, I would love to see grave diggers or, like, you know, Black Knights or, like, these, these, like, all these, like, minor-ass, like, Wu-Tang side projects being, like, grandfathered into the rock and roll

Hall of Fame just because they spun out of Wu-Tang or like retroactively like Beatles and Wings if Wings isn't already in there. I mean, you're pulling Rock the Shack out for comedic purposes, which I can respect. But like early Joy Division, I'm sorry, early New Order. Oh, that shit rules. Like bleeds pretty like cleanly into Joy Division.

I mean, they're basically, like that first New Order record is basically a Joy Division record that like Bernard Sumner is singing on. And then they get. popier and poppier as the decade goes on. And I mean, 80s New Order, I think, is great. I mean, I would put, I mean, in a way, I like putting it together because I would vote for each band individually. Like, when I look at this list, that one jumps out to me immediately as something, okay, I'm going to have a hard time not voting for that. Soundgarden I want to vote for just because there's so many 90s bands that are not in.

They've been so slow to do like alternative. alternative rock and indie rock that I just want to I feel like once you get one in it gets easier to put other ones in. I've voted for Iron Maiden in the past because there's so few metal bands in the Hall of Fame and like Iron Maiden

obviously a foundational band. Warren Zevon I have to vote for because he's my guy and no one else is going to vote for him. Like I feel very pessimistic that he has a chance going up against the Kate Bush's and even like Cheryl Crow, I think she's going to have like a lot of people in her favor.

I mean, I love George Michael. Yeah. He's great. I'd love to vote for George Michael. Faith was the first cassette I ever owned. My parents bought that for me when I must have been seven or eight. And boy, I don't think they read a lot of sub. I mean, that is not a record, a seven or eight year old person should have.

I know, but I mean, I had it when I wasn't much older than that. And I mean, that's like one of the greatest pop albums. It's fucking awesome. It's like, it's incredible. So, yeah, I don't know. This is going to be a tough one. Is there a limit to the amount of people who can get in any given year? Or is it like all these artists like have a chance to get in?

I mean, you only get to vote for five. So I feel like that limits how many people can probably get it. But I don't think there's like, oh, we can only put in five people. Gotcha. You know, if there's, you know, I don't really know what the threshold is in terms of getting in. If you have to have a certain number or whatever the case is, they're, I don't know, this is still a very opaque organization. But anyway, if there's any other voters out there, please vote for Warren Zeevon. Because it's going to be a lonely group, I'm afraid.

But he's great. And it would help him a lot. Should we talk about Tom Verlaine quick? Speaking of Hall of Famers, yeah. Although he's not in the Hall of Fame. I don't think television's in, which they should be. Tom Verlaine,

the great guitarist, singer and songwriter from the band Television, passed away this week at the age of 73. I was thinking about this. Was the band called television because his initials are TV? Because Tom Verlaine is real name, though. It's not, but still, like,

I wonder, because I, that's something I thought about tweeting, but I was like, is this one of those things that's so obvious to everybody that I would sound stupid saying? That is literally the first time I've thought of that, so. Okay, because I wonder if there's some connection there. But, again, television, one of the great bands of the punk era, Marquis Moon, one of the best debut albums of all time. I really love television for many reasons. One of the things I appreciate about them is that they,

are a product of an era where punk music was more of a sensibility and not a like a codified sound. You know, like you could sound like television, you could sound like the talking heads, you could sound like Patty Smith and you or blondey and you could be considered punk. And it wasn't just sounding like the Ramones, which is what it became over time. Yeah. You know, in television, like, they're a band with like long guitar solos and 10 minute songs. The little yaddy of their time. That's right.

That's what all the O-bit writers were saying this week about Tom Verlain. He was the little yaddy of the 1970s. I'm curious, like, Ian, because I'm always like, you are into some 70s stuff, you're not into other 70s stuff. Like, was television ever a band that entered your consciousness? Yeah, just say that, like, Ian, sometimes I wonder if you listen to any music made before 1993. Yeah, like television is one of those formative listening experiences, not like, you know, hearing okay computer in high school or what have you where like changes the way I like see music. But they're a band that, you know, I'm sure like many people, our age, you know, discovered from looking at like best of the 70s lists in my early 20s.

And, you know, I heard Barquis Moon. It's like, oh, wait, this is as good as everybody says it is. and moreover, it explains a lot of why music from New York sounds the way it does. Yeah, I listened to it the other day. I mean, it's timeless. Like, it's really impossible to imitate. And, you know, I haven't dove into the rest of television's records. Like, I'm pretty much, I've listened to Marky Moon, and, you know, that's really about it.

And it was cool to, like, have a situation where, you know, all the tributes, all the obitions, all the obituaries. I'm like, yeah, this band, unimpeachable, they, they were cool as shit, no notes. You know, it was, it was a bit of a contrast with, like, David Crosby where it was like, yeah, I don't know how I feel about this guy. Incredible poster, great voice. You know, Tom Verland was, like, this guy was, like, born cool. He was in a cool band, and he was, like, always cool.

The guy never had an uncool day in his life. Yeah, and you make a good point about how, you know, sometimes you dig into, like, these canonical lists and for whatever reason albums that get really hyped over time it's almost like the hype ruins them because they've been built up so much where they can't just be a record they have to be like one of the greatest records of all time and if you're coming at it after the fact it can just be hard to set that baggage aside and I think a record like Marquis Moon it is a tremendously important record but there's also something about it that is I think pretty

approachable where it's not, um, it doesn't feel self-important, you know, it feels like a really great band going into the studio and just playing like, I think it's,

I think there's eight songs on that record. Yeah. Maybe. Something like that. And they're just really good songs. Like there's, there's an element to that record where you could imagine a band today putting on a record like that that

that sounded like that, but this would just be like the greatest ever, sample. Like, I feel like there's every year there's a band that's trying to make that version, like, their version of that record. And they don't ever quite pull it off because it's a very lofty standard. It's funny because this week we did have a minor kerfuffle on Twitter where Anton Newcomb, can we, okay, I was about to say, can you explain to our listeners who this guy is? Anton Newcomb, who is the lead singer of the Brian Jones Town Massacre, which is psych rock band from California. I wonder what he thinks about Lilliatty's album. Like, oh, my God, they're going to knock us down a peg when we play Levitation next year. Fuck.

I have some love for Brian Jones Town Massacre. I think that their two-disc anthology is like a great greatest hits album. And, you know, I do have a garage rock strain in my, in my, in my past. So I have a lot of love for that album, and I love the documentary dig. Incredible, that's one of the greatest rock documentaries of all time. But anyway, he went on Twitter, and I guess as a way to pay tribute to Tom Verlaine,

he took a shot at the strokes. Yeah, it was awesome. Where he was like, oh, I noticed that the strokes haven't done, like, the RIP tweet for Tom Verlain, which is sad because they've ripped off television. Yeah. you know, for their career. And it's like, oh, we're still doing this with the strokes.

Like, we're still doing the thing where we're calling them rich kids that ripped off television. Where I don't think they actually sound like television, really. And it's like if you know anything about Julian Casablancus and Albert Hammond, Jr., you knew that, like, you know that they grew up listening to, like, Pearl Jam. Yeah. That was their favorite band as teenagers. Like, they weren't listening to Cool New York Rock. That's just something that music writers, who,

lived in New York in 2001 projected under the strokes because they wanted to pretend that it was 1977, you know, which do New York music writers still like to pretend that it's like 1977 in New York? I feel like that era is kind of past. I feel like that era, like, where anything that happens in New York is important because it's in New York. Like the 285 Kent thing. We're heading into like the 10-year anniversary of 285 Kent closing down. That was that was the end of that, I feel like. There hasn't been anything like that since, and it's because New York is way too expensive for bands to live in now.

It seems impossible for there to ever be that kind of music scene again. But you know, you and I, we've been in the game for a while. We remember the era where anything remotely noteworthy happening in New York would just be, blown way out of proportion because it was in New York and it was like we're going to cosplay CBGBs in 1977

many were saying that like you know dive and perfect pussy were like the blondey and television of you know the 2010 because they came out of like Kent to 85 many people one of those bands is great one of those bands is really great

I like that first well the only perfect pussy record and you know what shout to them like they put like I think they then they put like 10 minutes of like ambient noise jams on the just so they could like fulfill their contract of making a record. I think that's cool. And the same way I also think it's cool that like Anton Newcomb like just harboring this grudge for 20 years and just finding like, yes, this is the time for me to do that.

Like also that guy's from like Newport Beach originally. I don't think he has any leg to stand on as far as privilege goes. Well, in any way. I hope that this is a precursor to Dig Part 2. Oh, please. Anti-Newcom. Well, he's not going to have a few with the strokes because the strokes don't care. But maybe just anti-Newcom posting about other rock bands.

The past 20 years of Brian Jonestown Massacre Beach just all getting aired out. And like it's just going to, dig two is going to be like one of those like one of those things where like a guy films a YouTube in his car while driving. It's just going to be that for like three hours. hours, like him talking about, like, how he thinks, like, Tame and Paula are for assholes and, you know, like, Unknown Mortal Orchestra or, like, frauds, too. Like, Anton Nucca, he's just got a lot of beefs, man. So it's going to be a podcast, basically. Yeah.

That's why we can't have, there's no documentaries in the future. It's all this is going to be podcasts. Let's get to our mailbag here. And, man, we went long on the banter. Yeah, but that was good banter. It was good banter. And the mailbag is the meat. Yes.

So we're under a half hour right now. Well under. I think we're about four minutes under or so. So good on us. This first letter is not a question, but I put it in the mailbag because I feel like we're going to break some news with this letter. So do you want to read this one? Yeah, so this comes from Ryan from Beaufort, South Carolina. And this is a callback to our previous episode.

First off, Ryan says, great pod, I agree. Ian is 100% correct, again, also agree, on Interpol being secretly fit. My brother-in-law is their touring basis. Those guys are all sober. They are into hot yoga. Paul and my brother-in-law will go boxing. He's referring to Paul Banks. All in great shape, especially for their age.

Yeah, this is breaking news right here. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Thank you, Ryan, for writing. in. So again, we had this conversation sparked by a letter in our mailbag asking us, you know, what bands work out the most, what bands work out the least speculating on this. And you, you said something about how you, you, you assume that Interpol that those guys are probably secretly fit. Yeah. Well, actually, that was like our, that was the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, that guy speculated. I'm like, yeah, you know, like, based on like the Trent Resner career trajectory, I bet those guys are sober. And, you know, like you see them, you know, performing live. And I mean, with the kind of scene that Interpol like runs in where, you know, it's like kind of that, you know, cure sort of like quasi goth. Like if you don't like maintain yourself in that in that realm, like you're going to look, it can get bad pretty quickly. So I think that they kind of saw that as they've always been ambitious. career-minded and I think that investing in their health has been you know as important if not more so to their longevity than you know making good records yeah I mean because they've always like look good

they're looking stylish they're not going to you know get the dad bod you know they've got to keep it fit keep it high and tight I was just thinking that some of the lines in this letter could be interpol lyrics like those guys are all sober they're into high yoga I think I have a better Paul Vanks voice than you do. I got the lower register. Well, put your money where your mouth is. Let's hear it. No.

See, all right. All right. Well, then I win. I win automatically. Yeah, I can't perform on cue. I need to get in my zone. I need to be in the recording booth. I can't freestyle.

Well, you know what? Like, the lights are on right now, man. You know, the people are waiting. I love this letter. and it just makes me feel like we need to cultivate a network of brother-in-laws or brothers-in-law out there who are connected to indie rock bands that can give us the inside scoop. Is there a brother-in-law of like the drummer and car seat headrest? Are you out there?

Or does Phoebe Bridgers have a brother-in-law? You know, we need a network of brothers-in-law correspondence who can tell us what's going on in these bands. they can tell us who's doing hot yoga, who is maybe eating a few too many Doritos in a particular month. There's anything wrong with that? Not there's anything wrong with that. But again, we're just, this is like the kind of reporting that I think can really bring this podcast to the next level. Yeah.

You know, there's only so many national and Jack White albums that come out in any given year. We need to like get more into kind of, you know, wellness cast. That's really where the money is, wellness. or brother-in-law cast. Yeah, brother-in-law wellness cast. We have brother-in-law confessions on here. I think it's going to be great. So yeah, thank you for that letter.

Let's get to our next letter. This comes from J.D. in Narberth, Pennsylvania. Hell yeah. Narberth. So that is about 20 minutes from where I grew up, you know, around Balach-Kinwood, Nanny. The whole main line. Shout to y'all. Wow. Yeah.

Oh, by the way, Eagles in the Super Bowl. I got to tell you, I can't cheer for the Eagles. I hate to say that. I feel like I'm going to anger a lot of our listeners by saying this. But I don't know, I'm going, I'm going Chiefs. I want to see Patrick Mahomes win another Super Bowl. Is this creating a rift? Not really.

I'm like weirdly not jaded, but I'm like, okay, cool. You know, they made the Super Bowl. That's cool. Not because, like, oh, that's like unremarkable. It's still going to be awesome. But I think the first time, like the service, circumstances around them winning the first Super Bowl are so magical that like anything afterwards can't help but feel a little bit tame by comparison.

You know, we're not like, yeah, beating Pat Mahomes on like one leg is not like having Nick Foles beat Tom Brady. Like nothing can fucking top that. I know. And like you beat Daniel Jones and you beat like Brock Berry, you couldn't even throw a ball, you know, I mean, no offense, Eagles fans. I don't need like a dozen. birds emails in my box here.

I'm just saying you didn't beat anybody to get to this point. I'm a little skeptical about how are you going to do in the Super Bowl, but we'll see what happens. We will see what happens. Look, my team is terrible, so I have no leg to stand on. And my quarterback's going to be playing for the jets and any minute now. So you have plenty of ammo to shoot against me, but I'm just saying I got to go for the chiefs this year. All right.

So that was our sports cast episode. We'll go back to Indycast now. Hi, Stephen Ian, big fan of the show. I like that we're leaving the praise in our emails. A lot of times we cut the praise out, but we're going to leave the praise in here for our mailbag. I've been listening to John Cale's new album, Mercy, which is a very good record.

And while I'm not sure how I currently feel about it, I think it'll eventually be considered a late-era masterpiece, or at least a very interesting latter-day creation. In that way, it reminds me of rough-and-routy ways by Bob Dylan, Black Star by David Bowie, You Want a darker by Leonard Cohen, and Lulu by Lou Reed, a deeply misunderstood and underrated album, in my opinion.

Jady, I'm with you on that. I have defended Lulu. Are there any younger indie artists or groups that you could see releasing an album in their 70s or 80s that would rival their strongest albums in the catalog? Conversely, in the state of the music industry, are there even the right conditions for more contemporary artists to follow in the steps of people like John Kale and Bob Dylan?

And thanks for all the great conversations and recommendation. JD. So he's asking who today is going to be making weird and cool records in their 70s and 80s? So I love the optimism inherent in this conversation because this assumes that like the music industry and albums will still exist in 2050. But oh, they will. Come on. I know. You got to like, come on.

It's a hack joke. But whatever. You got to do it. it. You play to the cheap seat. So, yeah, with the people that JD mentioned, you know, John Kale, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Leonard Cohen, it seems that like when you're thinking about this, you can take two routes. Like the first is the David Bowie route where it's like artists who are very, very popular

already and are, you know, shown capability to like shape shift with whatever trends without embarrassing themselves. And then there are the artists who like Leonard Cohen. like kind of already sound pretty old, even when they're young. I think Bob Dylan's kind of the middle path with those things. And I would say that, like, in that vein, I'm interested to see, like, what DeAngelo or Frank Ocean will do if they, you know, continue to make music in their 70s. Like, maybe that's when they'll finally drop the follow up to Black Messiah or blonde.

As far as, like, in the A category, if Ezra Canning from Vampire Weekend decides to continue making music. I think he'll be someone who does interesting things with, you know, whatever, like incorporating trends in a way that is not going to be embarrassing. Like maybe like kind of a Paul Simon sort of route. But overall, like with the artists that were mentioned, you know, like Lulu, Black Star, you want it darker. Like, I mean, Black Star and you want it darker. Like, I mean, Black Star and you want it darker are like the albums that those two artists made and then like they died a couple months later. And I think there's always this sexual. expectation with artists in their 60s and 70s that they have to make these like meditations on like,

you know, mortality and things like that. It's all pretty like, you know, I got to say that kind of masculine coding, which makes me interested to see like what happens when, you know, a lot of the artists who are popular nowadays, many of whom are female, like when they get to that age, like whether there's still going to be the expectation that they're going to make the, you know, the Rick Rubin style strip down, like, vocals are like an octave lower, like, real grainy and gritty thoughts about what it all means. Yeah, I mean, and this is piggybacking a little bit on what you just talked about. I mean, I think the simple answer here is singer-songwriters.

You know, they're the ones who age the best. Like, it's unlikely that turnstile is going to be playing hardcore shows in their 70s. Not saying it won't happen because modern medicine, modern medicine is always improving. And, you know, they might still be in great shape in their 70s. But you can see it with, like, a lot of people who are in bands where they start to transition into, again, more of a singer-songwriter-type lane. Like, I'm thinking about Alex Turner. Right. Of Arctic Monkeys is the most obvious example of that where, you know, he's doing a lot of these crunery droll-type albums where,

it's technically Arctic Monkeys record, but it feels more like a solo album. And it's the kind of music that you can imagine him playing when he's in his 70s. You know, like a song from Tranquility Base Hotel and Casino might translate better than something from like AM at that age. And I mean, I feel like I can easily see someone like Lucy Dacus writing observational low-key songs about, her life in her 60s and 70s and assuming that she still has an audience that she's maintained for that amount of time, which there's no guarantee of that,

but I also feel like an artist like that feels almost predisposed to cultivating that kind of following. I could easily see that. I could see Lana Del Rey aging into like a Leonard Cohen type figure where, you know, she's making like these spook cool records that like you want like an older person to make like very cinematic sounding like

that seems like something that she could totally pull off uh you know as she gets into her senior years um so it i'm sure like Fiona apple yeah another artist joanna news so she's gonna if if she decides to continue making music yeah again i think that if you're say Maddie Healy. You can't be eating raw meat and touching yourself in your 70s. Maybe you can. Well, we'll see what happens, but I feel like he's going to need an Alex Turner type pivot at some point. Again, just people that make music based on of the moment trends, yeah, you can continue to shape shift. But even David Bowie at the end of his career, you know, the record before Black Star was the next day, which was an album where he essentially revisited a lot of his former guises.

You know, and Black Star was, I think, a pretty radical departure, but, like, it wasn't radical in the sense of,

like, sounding like modern pop music. It was still something that was its own thing. And he also had, like, a lot of years where he just made,

like, not good music. Or not music at all. I mean, you had, like, a long break between, you know,

there was like a nine-year break, I think, between, the next day and the previous record, which I think was reality. Yeah. It was the one before that. We're forgetting the obvious answer

of who's going to continue to make shape-shifting paradigm changing music in their 70s. The answer to that, of course, is a little yadi. Yeah, a little yadi, who, you know, in 2050 will make the sound of the future by combining hip-hop and psychedelia. Let's start here too.

Finally, someone will do that again in 2040. You want to get to our next letter? Yes, I do. So this comes from Patrick from nowhere near Wrigley Field or the Bean, Chicago, Illinois. So Patrick is real deal Chicago. You know, like I'm thinking, you know, like the bear. Patrick is working in a kitchen, listening to Wilco, Kid Smoke, that real Chicago.

He's probably the guy who's complaining about the bear. Yeah, exactly. On social media. Like all the Chicago people who are like, well, this is just a suburban version of Chicago, it's like, yeah, no one cares, okay? We don't live there. It's close enough. Like, get over yourself. You're not, you're not in New York.

It's fine. You're damn right. We're not in New York. I can't do a Chicago accent. I figure that's like you're around, given that, like, you're our Midwest correspondent. I know. I'm taking shots at like New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Angering the coastal wheat is what we do here.

I'm sorry. Like Chicago, it's a sports related, to go briefly to sports cast, I have to take shots at Chicago just because of being from Wisconsin and the animus that exists there. But anyway, pivot back out of sports cast. We'll go back in the indie cast. You want to read this letter? All right. Hello, Stephen and Ian.

I love the pod. I sense a theme with this mailbag. Whether it was the bloated nostalgia festival lineups or shitty documentaries inspired by excellent books, much was made of the indie sleeves revival in 2022. I mean, like, you know, much was made, but I don't know if it was an actual thing. One band that hasn't capitalized on this is TV on the radio. Were they to come back, what level of hype would they receive? They will inevitably be celebrating 20th anniversaries for their best thousands in the next few years.

Are they above the comebacks? Interesting to hear your take on this band for 2023 and beyond. P.S., Meet Me in the Bathroom Doc was truly horrible. The only mention of TV on the radio was them getting gentrified out of Williamsburg, and they ignored liars almost entirely. Also, the moldy peaches and the rapture are two of the worst bands to ever exist. Okay. Patrick dropping bombs.

You know, the Rapture, they have House of Jealous Love. Yeah, that's like the one. Like, I don't care if they made no other music. Like, Echoes kind of whips. The set in the next record is pretty good as well. They're just like a great kind of hymbo dance punk band. Like, we need the hymboes. Yeah, you know, moldy peaches, I agree.

Way too much wooled peaches in that movie. I've heard a lot of people disparage that documentary. I was entertained by it. I guess I liked the footage. I understand the criticisms of it. I mean, I think it was simultaneously overstuffed and also too short. You know, like where there was stuff in there where you're like, again, too much moldy peaches in here, but then the stuff that you really want to know about, it felt like,

oh, they could have gone deeper into it. So it's the problem with, like, a lot of two-hour documentaries that in the modern day, like, we're so used to like multi-part films that I think it's as hard to be satisfied with a two-hour film. Anyway, we're getting off topic here. TV on the radio. What kind of reception would have come back if they decided to come back? what would that get?

It's interesting that Patrick is framing this in terms of the indie slees revival, which was that really a thing? I feel like there was like a think piece in New York magazine. Exactly. This is like, it's like a fraction of like what Kent 285 drummed up. It's, you know,

like I really think they wanted it or like a few people wanted it to happen. And like there was just no real evidence behind it. Yeah, there was a lot of like actualization going on with that that didn't really take hold. We have yet to hear from Uffy on the matter. It's not indie sleaze. But like TV on the radio, I would say, was like maybe the least sleazy band of that era. Like I don't really associate anything sleazy with TV on the radio.

They were a band to circle back to the television conversation and not just because it's TV and television. But I think TV on the radio musically has the most in common with that original wave of New York punk from the mid-70s because again they were such a unique band that didn't conform to like what the cliches of like what New York punk or post-punk music is supposed to be like and I say this as someone who loves the strokes and Interpol but you know clearly they were wearing costumes to some degree they were recreating something that already existed and they were also more rock and rollish

in terms of how they carried themselves. Like, there was, you know, they were bands to take drugs to and to drink a lot of, like, you know, alcohol too. And I don't really associate TV on the radio with that. They were more of like an adventurous, already experimental. Yeah, and, you know, they're the kind of band

that I think, if they announced a comeback, I know I would be excited. I'm sure a lot of music critics would be excited. They would get a lot of coverage. wouldn't be as major as some of the other bands from that scene. But I think they're always going to have the most credibility from that scene, if that makes sense. Yeah.

The reason that they weren't really benefited from that wave in a way is that they kind of held themselves, not above at all, like Patrick mentions, but sort of outside of it. One of the things that immediately struck me and Meet Me in the Bathroom book where they do play a bigger role is that they were talking. Those guys were talking about how they never really felt like cool

and they were never getting any girls like the other band. It's like, God damn, man, you're on TV on the radio. You know, like if you're not feeling cool and you're in TV on the radio, I mean, I don't know what chance the rest of us have. But, you know, I think that you're right in that the strokes, the Interpol like intentionally or unintentionally, and even LCD sound system and the Rapture for that matter, they were like really a social music they were music that was like pretty easy to understand on a physical level whereas the reputation even back when they were like winning paths and job with every album they dropped like TV on the radio was seen as like this cerebral kind of at times emotionally impenetrable sort of band and I think they kind of played that up a bit and you know as far as like how they would be received that they had come back I mean like we were talking about. I mean like we were talking about.

about before, you know, like a lot of bands nowadays, like a lot of like black artists who play like rock music, you know, like I know that like, you know, Bartiz Strange in particular has talked about like how seeing TV on the radio playing late night shows is like a really transformative experience for them. And, you know, if they were to come back right now, I think it would be very well received, but like how popular it would be, you know, that room. I'm not so sure about that because I don't know, like, I feel like, you know, they would maybe play the same venue that the national is in your town, you know, like it's, they're not a band that you will see, I mean, you see kids these days like wearing strokes t-shirts or if you're into interpull, like, if you decide you're into interpull, like, that is your personality. And it's really tough to craft a personality around TV on the radio in the same way that you can with those bands, or even LCD sound system for that matter. I mean, I think the personality is that, like, I have good taste. Yeah.

So if you like TV and the radio, that's, and look, again, they're a great band. They're a great live band, too. Like, if they were, if they went on tour, I would, I would see them in a heartbeat. So I hope they come back. But again, I think that they're separate from there just because they're not as tied to reviving something as those other bands were. You know, that post-9-11 moment in New York, like where it seemed like the whole point was to evoke like a 20th century version in this confusing 21st century context. TV and the radio didn't do that. They were actually pushing forward, which I think is admirable for them.

And it's what makes those records so cool. So, yeah, I hope they come back. They're a great band. Yeah, maybe they just make a new record at the very least. I don't need to see them live, man. Although it would be cool to see like how many like how many wind chimes Dave Saitek could like attach to his guitar. Like it's always funny to like watch that band because like everyone's like rocking out and then you have like this producer kind of mad wizard doing just like bizarre stuff with his guitar. And it's like I don't even know if that stuff's miced.

But yeah, TV on the radio, great band could really use a new record from them. I'm sure it would be good. Dave Sitek is he the thinking man's Tomarello, did you say? In terms of modern sort of experimental. Where was he on the modern skin record, man? Yeah, exactly. Let's get to our last letter. And, oh, man, I think I caught off who wrote this.

Oh, shoot. No, that was, is that Chris? It's his name. Chris, yeah. Chris, yeah. Yeah, this comes from Chris. Chris, I don't think he said where he was from. So, Chris.

Universal Chris. Yeah, let's just say that you are in. Milwaukee, Chris. We'll pretend that you're in Milwaukee. Hi, Stephen Ian, got introduced to the podcast recently by my buddy's Zach and Drew. Hey, Zach and Drew. Shout out to you guys.

Who have written into the show before, okay? We have fun talking about Indycast every week. I love it. Bringing the dudes together. Do you guys have any opinions on the best places where people discuss music online? A lot of recent Indycast discussion points come from Twitter takes,

but I'd be really surprised if Twitter is the best place for quality discussion. Do you have opinions on sites like rate your music, indie heads, etc.? I wasn't sure if you guys lurked on other sites to see other people's takes or if a lot of observation is focused on Twitter. So where do we go for music conversation, Ian? Are you lurking on any of these message boards? Yeah, I mean, as far as like discussing music online, I feel like, you know, that peaked for

me in 2005 when I was on BlockSpot and I could tailor my feed to only cover like dip set drive by truckers in college football. But, you know, I think Chris is mentioning mostly message boards. And, you know, my experience personally on those is that, um, as fun as they are when they start, they always obey the law of thermodynamics and like eventually like the loudest, most frequent posters take over and like ruin it for everyone. And then, you know, you either cannot fucking. deal with that person anymore or, you know, if I'm being honest, like, I am that person sometimes. I'm trying to get better. But, you know, as far, like, I think we have to make a distinction between discussing music and, you know, like you, like Chris mentioned, like, lurking.

Because, you know, when I'm, you know, when I'm trying to get inspired and, like, find new stuff to listen to, you know, I might go to chorus.fm. Like, that's a, that's a place where I see Emo and, like pop punk stuff being discussed and like people very earnestly talking about like how the last Menzinger record is like one of their five favorites of all time and uh you know but then that gets into like discussions about like i don't know maybe someone's like a little too forceful about trying to revive brand new like rate your music i think i can get some interesting recommendations but that tends to lean a bit too much towards like black metal and black middy um and you know If we're being real, I still think that, like, Twitter is the best we're going to do.

But actually, no, Twitter is not the best we can do. Like, here's my little secret. Like, if you really want to have, like, quality discussions, what you need to do is find the four people, like, four people you really trust on Twitter and get them in a group DM. Like, that is the best of both worlds. You know, you'll get your hot takes off to people who. you know, feel kind of the same way that you do, but you also won't ruin your life by, like, thinking, oh my God, is someone going to, like, docks these opinions? Because I don't know about you, Steve.

Like, I don't, as ironic as this sounds, like, I don't really like discussing music anymore in a public setting. Yeah, I definitely don't like arguing about music, which I feel like is the backbone of message boards, like where someone says, I think MJ Lenderman is great. No, I think he sucks, and then you're going to, like, try to convince the other person over, you know, like while posting at 3 o'clock in the morning. I mean, that just seems like the biggest waste of time to me in the world. I have to say that, yeah, just in general, like, I like talking with people who are like-minded. Like, we're generally on the same page.

Like, oh, you like jam bands. And I like jam bands, too. So we don't have to, like, argue about whether this is even worthy of talking about. And then we can have like maybe minor differences in opinion or something. But for the most part, like I just like want to celebrate stuff with people. I don't want to like get into a debate. It just seems like the most tiresome thing imaginable. But yeah, I mean, I think the nice thing about Twitter is that you do get to pick who you follow,

even like with this horrible for you feed that they default you into, which you always have to switch out of that because you'll see like literally the people you hate the most all of a sudden showing up in your feed. It's like I like following people whose taste I trust and if they're tweeting about something that I think I'd be interested in you know that's a great way for me

to like learn about records more so than going into a message board situation which I always feel like it's like walking into a bar where everyone is already drunk and they want to have a fight. You know they've already got the beer bottle broken and they're like lunging at your throat as soon as you walk in the door.

And it just seems like a like a horrible situation. So yeah, I don't even like lurk really in a lot of those places. Unless they're making fun of like you or I. Then I'll go in and go. Which yeah, it's like, oh fuck man. This kind of ruined my fucking day. You know, like I mean, that's just like kind of the cost of doing business. If you like want to find out about the latest guitar fight from Cooley Foolie.

like you find out like someone like hates the fact that like you wrote a bad review about I don't know the gaslight anthem back in 2014 yeah it is wild ago on indie heads and occasionally you're just reading a thread and all of a sudden it's like oh that's my name oh wow okay this person's not a fan all right like it's it is like a slightly surreal it's like when the TV starts talking to you directly you don't really expect to see that but it's pretty trippy now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talked about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? Yeah, so, you know, one of the themes of the previous mailbag question is that I not so secretly

wish we could all go back to 2005. And one of the records that was one of my favorites from that year, Indycast Hall of Fame or First Ballot is Lady Tron's The Witching Hour. Interesting, interesting history with that band where, like, they've released quite a few records. They were part of the Electro Clash mini craze in the early 2000s in New York. The Witching Hours, like, the only one I like. It's kind of rare where you get, like, you like the band's, like, third or fourth album, but, like, none of the others. And I've really been looking for a band that can do something like that,

like basically Arena Rock, Depeche Mode with female vocals. Sometimes Crystal Castles hit that. But what I discovered with their new record, is that I like when Lady Trond does, tries to do the witching hour. You know, it's, it's still a pretty good, I can't pronounce the word, Samula Crum or whatever. You know the word if you've read music criticism. I really put myself into position. But yeah, I mean, it's not in a way that's like kind of desperate in terms of like trying to rehash their, you know, their, their best era. But it does kind of capture that music in a way that I find like

very low stakes enjoyable. Like, will it make my top 50 at the end of the year? I don't know. But will I listen to it more than, like, most records that do make my top 20? Probably. So if you're feeling a little washed, but, like, you're also the type of person who, you know, liked Interpol in 2002 and, like, trying to get in shape now. Like, this is, like, Lady Tran's, like, kind of get fit and sober album.

If we want to, like, bring things full circle. So the record I'm going to talk about today is called Dead Meat, and it's by a band from England called The Tubbs. And this record dropped last week, and it immediately became my favorite album of January 2023. And this is a record that the easiest way to describe it would be as like a jangle rock record. Like I've seen people compare it to, you know, the bands from New Zealand on the Flying Nun label.

You know, I've seen like Pylon. comparisons although pylon, not necessarily jangly. But what I really like about this band is that they have that jingle rock influence and they marry it

to this British folk sensibility. And it really comes from the vocals in this band. It reminds me a lot of Richard Thompson, which for those of you out there, of course, great singer-songwriter,

start out in the band Fairport Convention, then worked with his wife, Linda Thompson for a while. And when I listen to this record, it's like very zippy and quick, but the songs are really melodic, and again, they have this fokey quality to them

that I can imagine them being played half as fast on acoustic guitars, and it would be just as good. It also made me think about like R.E.M. When they worked with Joe Boyd, who Joe Boyd was a British, he's an American, but he produced a lot of those great British folk records of the 60s,

starting with Fair Poor Convention. and R.E.M. worked with him on Fables of the Reconstruction. This album doesn't sound like Fables of the Reconstruction, but I would say, like, it is, like, R.E.M. Making a record in England with a British folk producer. Like, that is a pretty good way to describe it, but it just doesn't sound like Fables of the Reconstruction. So if any of the stuff that I've just said is interesting to you,

get this record, 26 minutes long, nine songs, really good songwriting. really zippy, great riffs, great vocals, really cool record. They grew up like Joanna Grusome, right? Yes, yes. That was a cool band for a minute. Yeah, I hope the tubs have some legs,

because this record, this is their first full-length album. Like I said, it was my favorite record to come out in January, and it just seems like, man, this is a really good record. I feel like their next record could be really great. So hopefully they explore more of that British folks' side of what they do, because I really like that a lot. I like, I appreciate you bring this one up because like just based on the name, it's like the new tub's dead meat. I'm like thinking, okay, another shitty garage rock band.

Cool. That's what they, I know, like the name kind of sets you up for that or like an idols type band. Yeah. But they're not really like that. They are again. See them on tour with Viagra boys this fall. You know what I mean? No, no, this is like, I mean, you know, in a way, they're kind of like rolling blackouts, coastal fever.

There's the similar thing there. But again, I think the vocals and the British folk influence, it takes it in a different direction than what a lot of these bands are like. And I feel like that's an element in this band sound that could really be developed and really take them into a cool direction, assuming this band could stay together. Like, I really hope that happens. And even better, it's like the length of like two new Liliati songs. So there you go. But again, you know, not a lot of hip-hop and psychedelic rock exploration, unfortunately, on this record, that is a negative. Hopefully on the next album, they can become the first band to combine hip-hop and psychedelia.

That would be amazing. Thank you for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Tate newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.