Indiecast - Mailbag: Metallica vs. The Chili Peppers, The Rolling Stone Songs List, and What Is Indie?

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

It’s that time again: Steve and Ian are taking questions from listeners. This week’s episode of Indiecast kicks off with a recap of last weekend’ Pitchfork Festival, before diving into a discussion of bands that started their career in the indie world before eventually growing to a point that their indie cred became nonexistent. Bands like The Black Keys and Kings Of Leon are shining examples of this phenomenon, while bands like LCD Soundsystem, Vampire Weekend, and Arcade Fire retain the coveted indie credentials.Other conversations include the ultimate Indiecast concert that would bridge the gap between Steve and Ian’s musical tastes, the discographies of Red Hot Chili Peppers and Metallica, and more.In this week's Recommendation Corner, Steve is vibing with the new single from Orlando duo Tonstartssbandht, which previews their first album in four years. Ian is enjoying a new split release from European emo bands I Feel Fine and You Could Be a Cop.You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we answer questions from you, the Indycast listener. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, the number one artist on Rolling Stones' Best Songs of All Time List. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Well, I hope you're like me right now, and you have like a case of Diet Mountain and do and some quest bars and maybe some adult diapers to sit here because we're going to like just rock out one by one a recap of Rolling Stones 500 best songs of all time list. It is a 25 part episode. It's some real Ken's Burns shit.

It's going to be epic. Can I just say like this is, we've made references to adult diapers. I feel a couple episodes in a row now. What we're doing is we're just like really setting, we're setting the scene for us to get that big depends you know sponsorship we are just like priming the pump that's going to be like the like we're going to be able to do this podcast literally into our 80s

indie pens indie pens right the the depends for the indie cast listener I think it just to be depends we don't even need we don't even need to tweak the name so we've made joking reference to I guess this was the big conversation topic this week in music, fans, circles, talking about the Rolling Stone

list of 500 greatest songs of all time. Did you actually read that list? I mean, I looked it over. Look, I mean, having come back from pictures. I just found it exhausting. Yeah, just the thought of it. To think about. I mean, I appreciate what Rolling Stone is doing.

Lists are big business on the internet. People love lists. They love to look at them. They love to argue about them. They love to hate them. I write lists fairly often, so I understand how it works. But it's hard for me to even contemplate the 500 greatest songs of all time. I got a ballot for this, and I couldn't fill it out, because where do you even begin with songs?

Albums are hard enough. Songs to me, if you're talking about just like the body of song, I don't know how you even begin to approach that. Yeah, I mean, also I think it's emblematic of this entire enterprise that the basis behind wanting to do a new 500 best songs of all time list was to reflect, you know, demographic changes and, you know, new genres and just a real shift in the, I guess, the narrative or the canon. And it's also within an issue with Dave Grohl on the cover. So, you know, that kind of just, that kind of just shows you like what it's like, you know, beat the new boss, like same as the old boss. I don't think, like, I think that's how the lyric goes. Steve, don't fact check me on this.

Yeah, you got it. I didn't get a Rolling Stone ballot, so I'm not as familiar. So I'm clearly not as familiar with the who. But, yeah, I had to just for curiosity's sake, see what the top songs were, I skip immediately. Like I saw people were complaining about Old Town Road being somewhere in the back end above like a Miles Davis song. And then so I just had to look at the top 50. Had a curiosity.

Also so we'd have something to talk about today. And look, it's still kind of adheres to the boomer idea of like what rock music is supposed to do, which is... Well, number one is, was respect. Yeah. Number two was... Number two was a public enemy fight the power, which I thought was an interesting choice. And number three, I think was Sam Cookech, it's going to come. So it's well within the framework of music should, you know, have some sort of like social component to it or reflect the turbulence of the 60s because they, you know, they compare smells like Teen Spirit and fight the power to protest songs like by Bob Dylan or Pete Seeger.

and I just can't imagine. Like Nirvana was protesting children's deodorant, I think, with that song. Right? Was that the protest of Smells Like Teen Spirit? It was. I don't know what they'd be protesting with that song. It was about corporate magazines sucking. I think that's what they were protesting.

Oh, there you go. I guess we missed the point of that song then. I mean, I think the thing with these lists is, and I'm going to go on a limb, I'm going to say you're going to agree with me on this day. Like individual lists are always more interesting. Absolutely. than institutionalists. And I think the trap that you run into with these institutionalists is that there's this idea

that greatest is equivalent to important. Yeah. You know, like these are the most important songs. And obviously you can make the case, fight the power, probably the best protest song of the last 40 years. I mean, it's hard for me to think of a better protest song than that. But it's like, if you like Public Enemy, is that the song you want to listen to at this point? Or like, if you like Aretha Franklin, do you really want to hear respect again?

Yeah. You know, it's like, it's songs that we all recognize as having cultural import, but they're also the songs that I think we're all sick to death of. Yeah. So it makes lists like this feel a little joyless in a way. Like it doesn't feel celebratory. It feels almost like obligatory that you would have to say, you know, respect is the greatest song and you gotta have like a rolling stone up there and you have to have smells like teen spirit up there

all of these marvin yeah all these recognized masterpieces that they're great but we're all i think sick of them i mean no one's really i mean i know sales like teen spirit is like one of the most stream songs of the 20th century uh there was like a list that was shared of that recently and uh i think soles like teen spirit was the only 90s rock song in the top 10 like half of the list was Wonderwall wasn't in there? Oh, you're right. Yeah, Wonderwall was in there too. I just think of Oasis as being timeless,

so that's why I didn't think of it as a 90s rock song. But yeah, it's like Oasis, Nirvana and like five queen songs and things like that. But, yeah, I just feel like when you have an individual list, it just will inevitably be more idiosyncratic and interesting. And you just feel like it's more of a passion project for the listmaker rather than these huge lists that like 100 people voted on. Yeah.

Like we have to also consider the fact they say greatest songs of all time and their frame of reference more or less seems to cut off in the 60s. I mean, you know, like where's camp down races or mama's little baby loves shortening bread or Hava Nigula or, you know. What about someone called Mozart Rolling Stone? Have you heard of them? Is Little Nazak's better than Mozart? But, yeah, it just, this felt to me.

and like most lists that span this period of time, it just felt like a book report about the 500 best songs of all time. Like if you were to really get any of these people, like put them in front of a jukebox at a bar, would respect or fight the power or what's going on be like the first song they reach for. So yeah, look, it's, I just feel exhausted even.

having talked about it for five minutes, but you know what? I can't wait until we do it again in like 10 years or something like that. You know what? Like I have to respect the places to actually leave their lists. Like the same pitchfork 90s albums list has been there since I think 2003. Yeah, I respect them sticking to it. I'm shocked they haven't updated it yet because, I mean, like Liquid Swords and Stankoni are below like several.

Tom Waits albums or something along those lines. Well, and I think that is interesting to me about, again, these institutional lists that, you know, you have, I think the last Rolling Stone's list was 2004. Yeah. And there were people comparing the two lists and how, for instance, I think there were maybe a dozen Elvis songs on the 2004 list and there's maybe two on this one. and obviously Elvis is a person who he seems to be you know people are sort of easing him out of the canon gradually yeah uh you know he like he was when I first started learning about music he was considered

one of the most important artists ever and now people are saying well he's not as good as Chuck Barry or little Richard or any of his contemporaries which I think is all I actually think Elvis is kind of underrated now. I think it's good that he's been contextualized that way, that he's not like the only 50s rocker. I mean, it seems like that's how he was treated for a long time. But I guess in contrasts to that, there are like more Bowie songs on this list than the 2004. So like his stock has gone up. I assume that there's probably more Fleetwood Mac songs and Queen songs. Yeah, it's interesting because at work when I see teens and like the adolescents, like people who are under the age of 18,

like the stock of Fleetwood Mac of David Bowie of Queen is just skyrocketed. They're wearing those sweatshirts. And so I think that this is going, like if there's any record company that has like an artist say like, I don't know, the clash and they want to, they're sitting on this catalog. They really want to give it a boost. They're going to make a movie out of this person. Yeah, that totally works, man. Yeah, the movie thing. I mean, I think Queen already had that.

that to their benefit, I think they were already surging, but yet then that terrible movie. Did you see Bohemian Rhapsody? It's awful. No, I saw just the clips of it where people would post. I think it was what? It won an Oscar for best art direction or something like that or best camera work. No, it was best editing. And they showed like these clips of how it was, you know, like edited like the Homer Simpson tape when he goes on rock box. I'm like sweet cans, sweet can't, like stuff like that. So, um, look, I, I don't need to see it.

Like, yeah, I mean, it's, it's entertainingly bad. Like, it's a movie that if it were on television and I was slipping through, I would probably watch it for a half hour because it's very watchable. And I love bad music biopics anyway, you know, like when, uh, like when VH1 would do biopics, like they did like a Depp Leppreth movie. Uh, Have you seen that one? Wait, there is a deaf leopard movie?

There's a deaf leopard biopic that came out. It was a VH1 movie, and Anthony Michael Hall plays Mutt Lang. Say no more. Say no more. You could probably find it on YouTube. I think it's called Hysteria, the Death Leopard's story. And it was made in 2001? Yeah.

Wow. I've seen this movie multiple times, and it might actually be better than Bohemian Rhapsody. I think I would give it the edge, just because, because Anthony Michael Hall isn't in Bohemian Rhapsody, but it's like of similar quality. And yeah, I love that movie. Yeah, OSA.

So the first thing I find when I Google, this is an article from ultimate classic rock.com where it says, Joe Elliott feared, no one want to make a biopic about Def Leppard. Following the 2001 TV movie called The Biggest Pile of Shit ever made. So I got to watch that now. Oh, Joe Elliott.

Come on, man. Yeah, that's our, that's our, like, double recommendation corner. Everyone just go find hysteria, the deaf leopard story. I bet it's on YouTube. Or on Vimeo, like one of those. I bet you could find it. It's a 20th anniversary of the film, apparently. It came out in 2001, so we could celebrate the 20th anniversary of hysteria, the

deaf leopard story. Before we get to our mailbag, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about your big trip to Chicago. Yes. To see some Chicago blues. You saw some blues last weekend in Chicago. That's right. Right?

Yeah. No, you went to the, you went to the Pitchfork Festival. I did. I did not see, you know, blind plum cot, Christopherson or whatever the fuck. You know, yeah, I did. First Pitchfork Fest since 2018. And like, how many have you been to, by the way? I've been to pretty much every single one since 2008, except for,

15, 17, and 19, for whatever reason, situations in my life in those odd numbered years like prevented me from going. But I forgot just how, like, this wasn't a, I would tell my, you know, my coworkers, hey, I'm going on vacation to Chicago. And it's like not at all a vacation. It is like an immersive experience because I got it's, it's, you know, it's a festival, but it's also being a part of this universe of writers of, you know, hangers on of punishers of just music fans that I only can grasp in the abstract online sense

and for four or five days I am just within that group of people like I don't it just it I really needed to refamiliarize myself with what it's like to be in a room of you know four 500 people who all know who oh so-oso is. Oh yeah. Because with all due respect, I could probably go the next decade of my life in San Diego, working my job, going about my business,

without meeting someone who knows who that band is, let alone like the songs from their pre-Unahan debut. Well, and that's a fun thing about going to shows. It's like you can finally not feel like a weirdo, you know, when you're with all these other people who are into what you're into. And I think we're all experiencing that again, and that's awesome.

I'm wondering, like, when you're at Pitchfork Fest and you're hanging out with all these music writers, does the mute button work in person? Like, it works on Twitter, or, like, do you just have to, like, listen to everyone talk without being able to get away from it? Yeah, I think you just kind of have to, look, actually, the mute button comes off, usually, after that.

It's like, you meet people who you kind of vaguely know online, and you just realize that you and these people have, like 99.99.999% overlapping interests and that it's that point zero zero zero zero one percent narcissism of small differences that make someone who slightly disagrees with you on Twitter the most annoying person in the world even though if this person was like your co-worker in a completely non-music related job you would be best friends with this person you would hang on to them as if they were a life preserver you know well i mean one thing i found is that there's a certain kind of like social media user who will use social media as like a dumping ground for all of their anger and all of their negativity.

And then you meet these people in person and they're very sweet people. And because this happened to me a couple times like where I've met people and I just assume like, oh, this is going to be the biggest curmudgeon in the world. And then you meet them and like, oh, you're a total sweetheart. you realize like oh the reason why they're a sweetheart in person is because they're using social media to dump all of the toxic waste in their souls so they don't spread it in real life which i guess is like a good way to go about living i mean i i guess it's probably better to be pleasant in person and and you know toxic online rather than the inverse of that although you don't want to be toxic anywhere.

Yeah. But if you have to be toxic somewhere, I guess you want to dump that into your social media thing. But I find that's disproportionately true of writers or critics, the curmudgeonly aspect. It can make it a little hard sometimes to interact with that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's the case for me where, you know,

this stuff has to go somewhere, you know, and I could write it on my journal or whatever. But really, it's about, just like kind of connecting and interacting. And yes, Twitter is the real world. The things you say on there, Lord knows I know that they have real life repercussions.

But yeah, for the most part, you find that most writers are just like the biggest sweetheart and, you know, and it's worth remembering whenever someone says something that might ruin your day. But I also just have to give a shout to the actual festival itself.

Like, it was so, it was like, 2020's festival on delay, most of the bands there. Aside from like, say, St. Vincent or Black Midi, almost none of the bands on the lineup were on an active album cycle. So, you know, it was more like who was there from 2020 who needed to step up. And Eve's Tumor, I'm sure you heard they put on a fucking awesome show. It contrasted a little bit with the fact that it was like 5 o'clock in the afternoon,

like bright sun, dust all over the place. And I would love to see that in a dark club with a proper light show. I was going to say, I heard about this show. That's an act I definitely would have wanted to see. Oh, yeah. I read Christaville's review and stereo gum of the Phoebe Bridgers said. Yeah, what he said was true. Yeah, and it just made me think that, you know,

Phoebe Bridgers is obviously a big star now, and she's going to be doing these headline slots, probably more and more, but she does not seem like a headline artist. I think she's a headline. She's got the catalog, and she's popular enough, but it's just like, I just know for me at a festival, festivals are more social events than musical events. And it's like, I love Phoebe Bridger's music.

I'd like to see her in a theater. But like at the end of the night, I just need something louder and dumber than her music. I mean, it just does, like this introspective singer song writer stuff at like nine o'clock. Yeah, we just, we need like, placebo or something like that. Man,

yeah. Without you, I'm nothing. If they played that album in its entirety, come on. Like all 18 minutes of Burger Queen. Yeah, I think with Phoebe Bridges, like, she was absolutely worthy of the headline spot as far as, like, her popularity

and coming off Punisher and so forth. um yeah it's it and if i were to see that at like a two or three thousand capacity theater it would have come off much better but yeah it kind of it first off had to compete with another artist who was going 20 minutes long playing like very heavy bass music and um yeah i mean look it's a troubleshooting thing it's not like when drake played coachella and it was like the most boring shit imaginable just because like you know he didn't doesn't have a lot of stage presence in an outdoor festival.

But look, I give this entire festival, like so much props for actually pulling it off, you know, a year after the fact in September against a Bears game. Like, I cannot stress how many Justin Fields T-shirt jerseys I saw at the festival. That seems like a great time for to have the festival. It is. I hope they keep it there. Yeah, because Chicago in September is so much more pleasant than Chicago in July. You know, this is like the, this is probably the best weather Chicago has. Yeah.

Like this month. And it's also true of where I live in Minneapolis. I mean, it's beautiful weather right now. It's like late summer, early fall. Every day is about 75 degrees. It's basically San Diego, a year for six weeks. And then it turns into Siberia after that. But because you and I cannot be in the same time.

legally speaking. I'm going to Chicago this weekend to see Deadenco at Riggly Field starring noted indie rocker John Mayer. That's right. And I'm going with a music writer as well, Rob Mitchum, and I think there'll be

some other jam-leaning indie people in the house that I might see down there. So we'll talk about that next week. Let's get to our mailbag segment. and our whole episode from here on out is the mailbag segment. We get a lot of questions, so it's nice every now and then to just answer questions. And it also allows Ian and I just to riff. I mean, these are like the most fun episodes to me.

I don't know how you feel. Yes, they are. The most fun episodes are the Jimpathy episodes, but like these are number two with a bullet. Yeah, absolutely. I forgot about Jimothy. To me, Jimothy, he's his own category. I don't even like rank him. Yeah.

So this is my favorite with the noted sort of invisible asterix that does not include Jimenez. And by the way, if you want to write us, you can hit us up at Indycastmailbag at gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter or at Indycast 1. And we're always making fun over there too, so hit us up. Do you want to read the first question? Yes, I do. All right. So this one comes from Ben in North Carolina.

Canton, Ohio. I didn't know those are North Canton. Yeah. Yeah, serious. Like, North Canton, Ohio, that's an Indycast type of town. Is that a separate town from Canton, Ohio? You're going to ask me this. I'm wondering that.

Or is this just like, is he just very specific about the region of Canton? I only know Canton because of the pro football hall game. Yeah, that's what I know as well. And I don't know, maybe it's like a sense of pride to say you're from North Canton, Ohio. It's like, no, man, we're not like those big city slickers. with a football Hall of Fame in Canton. Yeah. Yeah, like those SOBs in South Canton.

Yeah. You know, like just forget them. Yeah, maybe the Hall of Fame is in South Canton and the North Canton people are resentful. Or maybe the Hall of Fame is in North Canton and they have this insane snobbery about being in North Canton. Yeah, so basically, Ben, if you're listening and if you've submitted to our mailbag guys,

assume you are. We need a follow-up email, like just getting through the finer, granular points of Canton, Ohio. So, yeah, we appreciate that. All right. But in the meantime, Ben from North Canton, Ohio writes, when is an artist no longer considered indie? Well, geez, that's a question that gets the entirety of our podcast. That's like, yeah, existential shit. Is it when they change their sound, when they have a hit song, when they become too popular with the mainstream? or if they strive for any of those things. So the bands that come to mind are the Black Keys and Kings of Leon. The Black Keys, of course, you know, they're from Canada.

No, they're from Akron, Ohio, my bad. Yes. Early in their careers, I feel like they were considered indie then. Somewhere along the way, they became massive mainstream rock band shunned by the indie community. Perhaps this was this way with U2, REM, and Nirvana as well. Why do some acts retain indie cred, such as Arcade Fire, LCD, Sound System, Vampire Weekend, and pavement, and others don't, such as Black, Black, Keys and Kings of Leon.

Hmm. So I feel like we've been getting more of these questions lately about like what is indie rock. And sometimes we get angry letters from people who are mad that we're not talking about indie music enough or like the stuff we're talking about isn't really indie. This letter is not an angry one. This is more of just like a philosophical question. I don't know about you. I mean, to me like, you know, we've talked in this show about 2013.

being a turning point in modern indie history. And I feel like that was the year where indie as a term officially became meaningless. Because before that, I think you could say, like, well, indie, it applies to bands that are on independent record labels that are situated outside of the musical mainstream. You can be indie in that respect, or you can be indie in the sense that you are influenced by the indie canon or you're part. of the indie continuum, meaning that you probably sound a little bit like pavement, you sound a little bit like Sonic Youth, you know, bands like that. And really, I think since like 2013 or so, neither one of those things are remotely true. And, you know, you see indie music sites now that cover extremely mainstream, you know, pop acts along with smaller indie stuff. On this show, I mean, we

talk about, you know, some of the biggest acts in the world on this show. So I don't know, I mean, I don't even know how to define this term. I really don't know what it means other than, you know, in the same way that people define porn, you know, like you know it when you see it, you know? Like, that's the Supreme Court definition of that. And to me, if the Supreme Court ruled on this, that would probably be what they would say about indie. It's like a gut feeling that you get from a certain kind of artist. Does that make sense? Well, I would say if we, we find it worthy of being reviewed or a trend that needs to be hashed out, then it's indie. Like, we are, we are the Supreme Court of Indy, you know, like, yeah, if we talk about it,

then it's Indy. But, you know, I think the framing of this question, uh, it kind of gets to, like, it kind of gives away the game because, you know, Kings of Leon, like, I get what Ben is saying. I don't think they were ever considered indie at all. Um, the Black Keys, perhaps, because, you know, they were on an indie later. and they played like they were kind of seen similar to like white stripes in that way but I think that in the same way that like maybe 1991 can be seen as the year alt rock broke uh 2013 might be the year indie broke whereas alt rock was at some point used to describe bands like say

sponge or uh the gym blossoms or bush which were like the alternate like they were not the alternative to anything. Like, they were the mainstream acts. And, but nonetheless, like, whether it's through their dress code or the sound of their music, kind of deriving from Nirvana, which derived from Pixies and the whole,

uh, you know, alt rock history lesson, um, it, it just, it's how you knew it wasn't say aerosmith, like classic rock or it wasn't, say metal.

And I think for indie, it's in a, it's a similar sort of thing where, you know obviously like LCD sound system vampire weekend arcade fire war on drugs for that matter like they're all major label bands and yet it's not say muse or imagine dragons uh oftentimes like indie describes what something is not rather than what it is and so i think if you were at one point considered indie i think that applies pretty much throughout your entire career, like regardless of whether you make a hit, regardless of like whether or not

you change your sound. If you're from that firmament, you're indie and like for the rest of your career. And also I think we have to, I think we also have to take into account that like, the people who talk about this stuff have a very different framework of it than we do. Because like, I'm at work when I meet people who say like, oh yeah, I like indie. Like, what is that mean? I like still woozy and glass animals. Like it, they don't think of it as having any bearing on music released on an independent label in the same way that people, you know, will say, yeah, I like R&B, but it doesn't really mean rhythm and blues anymore, you know? Right. Yeah. And, you know, in getting back to the examples that he was mentioning with, like,

the Black Keys and Kings of Leon, I agree with you. I don't think Kings of Leon were ever really an indie band. and I really don't feel like they were ever that acclaimed either. The first album, the first album? Maybe. Yeah, I think that maybe, like, they weren't on like the arcade fire level, like where they were getting, you know, like the same kind of reviews at funeral guy. You know, I think that they were always more of like a mixed reaction type band. I think with the Black Keys, you know, what happened with them, along with getting popular,

is that the type of music that they make just became way less fashionable over the course of their career. You know, there was a moment in the a arts where, you know, garage rock had some cachet, and you could be a garage rock band, and you could be pretty well reviewed, and, you know, looked at as being part of the vanguard of indie music. And then in the 2010s, which coincides with the Black Keys becoming this arena band, the kind of music that they were making, I mean, it just was not considered, you know, whatever word you want to use, cool,

innovative, you know, any way down the line. So I think that also sort of coincides like with them maybe being stigmatized in a way

that say, Vampire Weekend hasn't been because I think what they've done, you know, they make very, like, well-made songs,

good lyrics. It's always pretty forward-thinking production. You know, the kind of things that they do, that's always going to be in fashion, I think,

in indie circles. Like they're a rock band that also felt like a pop band in a lot of ways so they could straddle that line that fissure that happened in 2013 that I think a lot of rock bands weren't able to survive at least in terms of their indie credibility.

Let's move on to our next question and I'll read this one. This comes from Carl and Denver. What band or artists could bring two indie cast hosts together for a night of live music. I'm seriously stumped on the answer.

Seems like one of you would have to make some pretty noteworthy concessions to the other's taste. And perhaps in exchange, that one wouldn't have to book a flight to make the gig. A very special edition of Indycast, comma, show review needs to happen. The when, where, and who was up to you. So Carl is saying that we need to figure out a show that you and I can go to together and then we'll do an episode on it. Okay.

I actually, and I think you're going to agree with me here. I actually disagree with Carl. I think that you and I are probably on the same page. Absolutely. On most music, I think we tend to emphasize our areas of, like, divergence on this show because it's more interesting to talk about that. But, like, we are two, you know, music critics in our 40s, you know, who grew up with similar reference points. So I actually don't think it would be that hard to find a show that you.

you and I could enjoy together. Yeah, I think that, um, I think that first off, it kind of has to be like a destination show. Like, we're, because like, we're not going to go, like, I would say that, oh, you know, Steve needs to see turnstile, which by the way, like, that was the talk of the town at Pitchfork Festival. Like, they played the night, they played the night before the festival and it was just fucking incredible, but I'm, I'm dying to see them. They're playing here as part of that package. Oh, yeah.

suicide boys and cheap keef and slow tie yeah it's right yeah it's they're playing a huge venue yeah too i mean it's like a 10,000 cedar yeah so i don't know if that's like the best environment to see them yeah i guess not and also like they're probably the third most popular band on that bill which you know kind of shows you like rock compared to rap but um i mean we we've spoken on this show about our love for you know all to respect the bee market festival um you know the ones that aren't Coachella, they may not be golden voice, so to speak. But for example, like, louder than life. This is happening, I believe, two weeks or no, actually I think next weekend in Louisville,

which is a city I love, went there all the time when I went. Great city. Shout to Louisville. Yeah, shout to Louisville. Yeah, shout to Louisville. Love it there. And louder than life is like one of those festivals that is, they just have no illusions. about what they are, which is a rock festival,

but like one of the rock festivals that somehow is able to get like Snoop Dog or Cypress Hill, you know, those 90s Laalpa Lopalooza rap acts that appeal to, you know, rockheads. Because yeah, where else am I going to see like corn, Jane's Addiction and Code Orange or something like that? But I think the one, like if I had to choose the one that's going to bring Steve and I together,

A, it's going to be in San Diego because, like, look, I can envision someone flying out San Diego for any old reason. All due respect, probably not going to fly out to Minnesota. But Caboo, it's KAAB-B-O-O-Del-Mar. This is a San Diego festival that's coming back in 2022. And this one, it takes place in Del Mar, which is a very ritzie part of a very ritzie part of San Diego in North County. and I know we overuse the term chaotic to describe certain things in music,

but like, I want to read to you the 2019 lineup. First off, there was a comedy stage that had Bob Sagitt and Tom Green, but besides that and Wayne Brady, I'm already there. Dave Matthews band, Duran Duran, Wutang, Sublime with Rome, Squeeze, Toots in the Maytalls, E.D. Prokel and the new bohemians.

Lifehouse and Switchfoot, that goes without saying. Ario Speedwagon, Boys to Men. Cheryl Crow. Nice. The cult. So, yeah, it's, and Blind Melon. Oh shit, Blind Melon played. Blind Melon?

Yeah. Like, I like that they had Toots and Maetals and Blind Melon. Because, like, I know those two bands for sure, the lead singer is passed away. Yeah. So, like, there's still two, so me, I wonder if there's any other, like, is Allison Chains there too? Well, 2008, 2018, they had nerd, incubus, Gucci, Maine, Jimmy, World, Nelly. Like, this is like, a tower of power and soul asylum, candlebox and Vanessa Carlton. I think Phil, I think Phil from Uprocks went to this one one time.

And I remember, I think it was him, he wrote about it. And it's like, yeah, man, it is like really well designed. it's really kid friendly. It's, yeah, I can't wait to see what they got cooked up for 2022 because I've never been to it yet. I'm going to fucking go. To me, to me, the sign of a good festival, because I'm not really interested in music festivals at this point. Like, I've been there, done this. But like, if I'm going to go to a music festival, I want to look at the bill and ask myself,

do I want to listen to this when I've had about three beers? And this lineup, it's like almost every single act you mentioned. mentioned would be something I'd want to see if I've had three beers. And like, like, Lifehouse? Right now I don't really want to see them. But if I have three beers, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that just sounds amazing. So, Caboo?

Yeah. Put it on the schedule. This might have to be, this might have to, this is 2020. Is this in the summer? Usually it's like in September, I think. Really? Yeah. Okay.

Well, mark your calendars. Maybe one year from today. Rock some caboo. Yes. Could be good. I think I'm all over that. We'll see. Maybe we'll do like a GoFundMe.

And IndyCast listeners can pay for us to go to Kapu. That's right. You want to read our next question? Oh, God, man. This one's, I cannot wait to answer this one. So this is from Tim in Perth. I imagine it's Perth, Australia. I don't know if Perth is like one of those cities that in America that we,

someone was talking about on Twitter where it like gets pronounced entirely differently. like for sales, Kentucky. But anyway, Tim from Perth, we're going to assume it's Australia. Yes. It's cooler if it's from Australia. Yeah, we got that international reach. I recently restrung my dusty and fetid guitar

and thought about my teenage years and hitting the intermediate stage, whereby the red-out chili peppers under the bridge and my friends and metallic has faded to black and nothing else matters. We're ultimately unfruitful in their goal of serenating females. Sorry about that, Tim.

I have scoured the back catalog of Celebration Rock and Indie cast and would like to hear your takes on the chili peppers and Metallica. Personally, I checked out after one hot minute and load respectively. All right. So this is obviously trying to get like our sensors on high alert because I think I made the same exact. I checked out after one hot minute and load joke and became a toast of my 10th grade study hall. I like it.

I like it. Inuendos, baby. Yeah, we haven't talked about the chili peppers or Metallica. Two of the biggest bands in the world. for a long time. Still? Still, still huge bands. Should we talk about the chili peppers first?

Yeah, let's talk about the chili peppers first. Yeah, I mean, God, blood sugar, sex magic. That was such a tremendous bonding experience for my friends and I at the time, you know, not like my friends, like the song from One Hot Minute, but yeah, I mean. 30 this month too. We should shout up, blood sugar sex magic. Holy shit. 30th anniversary. I think it came out September 24th, 1991.

Fuck, man. I was not expecting to like be facing my mortality quite to this degree, but fuck, here we are. 30 years. Jesus. 30 years, man, a blood sugar sex magic. Anthony Ketus hasn't aged a day. But yeah, I mean, one hot

minute, I own the tablature book. I haven't really listened to them in years. Nor do I really plan to. Like, I think what hurts blood sugar sex magic is that the power of equality is like a really embarrassing song and it's the first one. But, you know, the singles on Bloods. It's not the only embarrassing song on that album either.

You get her psychosexy too. Oh, that's on rules. Yeah, that, that, that, that's, yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, I'll, I'll say like, I love Blood Sugar Sex magic. Yeah. And part of it is nostalgia because that was an album, where, you know, if you're playing basketball in someone's driveway, Blood Sugar Sex Magic would just magically start playing at some point in the early 90s.

And it's funny you bring up a Bud Ha'Han minute because that's the Dave Navarro record. That is the Dave Navarro record. And by all accounts, the band was a mess at that point. It took them five years to follow up Blood Sugar Sex Magic, and that was the follow-up. And they were basically a dead band after that record came out. I have affection for one hot minute, though, as well. I always have this thing where, if you're listening to, like, a Jack radio station, you know, you'll hear the beginning of what it's like by Everlast.

And I always think, and I always hope it's going to be my friends by the right hot chili peppers because they sound exactly the same at the beginning. Oh, geez, you're right. And I hate that Everlast song. Oh, it's tough. That's a song that's just, it's. for some reason, like that's endured as like a jack radio,

you know, staple. Like I hear that song at least a couple times a month, I feel like. I've not heard it in year. Like I remember when it first came out, also we did be doing an

ever last episode because I believe he had a... Oh, we don't. What I remember is that the next album, the lead single of that, that album was a song called Black Jesus. So, yeah, Was that album Whitey Ford's single?

That was the big one. Yeah, that was the big one. But otherwise, I mean, shit. Yeah. Jack, even at the time, like, Red Hot Chili Peppers, like in 2000, let's say, like, I know that there's like mandatory Metallica on some radio stations. Like, there was, like, not mandatory Red Hot Chili Peppers, but it happened anyway. Like, I was working at Ben & Jerry's in 2000, and you would just hear every Californications

single, like all day, multiple times a day. Things would maybe get broken up every now and again when they would play three doors down kryptonite. But, you know, after Californication, I kind of checked out. Like, it wasn't really fun to like the chili peppers anymore. Like, I, that's like their bit, is that their big album now? Do you think that is, can? No way.

Do you think it's bigger than blood sugar stuff? I don't think so. I mean, under the bridge is still like their wonder wall, their, smell like teen spirit, give it away is, you know, immortal. But maybe. I don't know. I mean, I feel like as a radio album, Californication is the bigger one because scar tissue and californication and was there another hit on that album?

Other side. Other side. All those mid-tempo pretty songs. Yeah, which set the stage for like the rest of their, you know, the past 20 years. Like, I mean... That's like their American idiot.

You know, it just totally gave them a shot in the arm and just ensured that they were going to be a band that goes to distance. You know, I'm of the opinion. I really don't like any other Chili Peppers records, really, other than... By the way, is a good song.

But I keep trying to get into their other records. Like, I actually bought, by the way, recently because I've heard that it's the most Fershante-centric chili peppers record and I like John Fersante that's like a very sort of like basic opinion

on the chili peppers it's like the contrarian's opinion that became basic right but you know it's how I feel and really with the chili peppers you know I feel like with that band the biggest liability is Anthony Ketus he's the one

that always kills that band for me because I think the instrumentalists are all pretty great. But Kitas is like such a bonehead. But I also can't imagine them having a different frontman. I mean, he is the perfect frontman for that band. But like his voice and like his lyrics are like so bad. No, he's the single most irreplaceable frontman in rock music history.

Like he like you just you can't like if he somehow. I think you're probably right. I think he's an essential part of that band, but he also kills that band for me when I listen to them. Although I'm listening to the audiobook of his autobiography, scar tissue, read by writer, like writer strong reads it, you know, the guy from Boy Meets World. Have you read that book?

I've not, but I probably, not that it would like sully my opinion of that band because, you know, it's just like he is, like Neo from the Matrix, dodging cancellation, but... I mean, it actually made me like Key this more because I think he's an interesting person. And that book is just really entertaining. So it made me appreciate him more, and it made me like want to get into other Chili Peppers records. But like Californication, like the deep cuts on that album, are like pretty bad, I think. Oh.

I can't imagine how they be bad. I mean, they write the same song 20 times. Well, like, all their, all like the, like, the sex funk songs are so rare. Oh, those are the deep cuts? Yeah. I thought they stopped making the sex funk songs after one hot minute. No, I think there's, I think they still do them. They just don't release them as singles anymore.

And I don't know, just Anthony Keats is singing about sex over like, you know, slap bass. I just can't. I don't rather hear that nowadays than, you know, another like poignant song about California. Or, like, have you heard the Adventures of Rain Dance Maggie recently or Danny Cal? Like, these are some of the dumbest songs I've ever heard on the radio. What was that called? The Adventures of Rain Dance Maggie. I'm pretty sure.

Like, someone needs to fact check me on that. I'm 95% positive that that's a real song and that's the name of it. Or, you know, failing that. Actually, the best one of that chili pepper song, there was one comedian who, um, who made like a fake rat out of chili pepper's song. I think it was called like Abercadabra Californication or something like that. And it was easily the best rat out of chili pepper song of the past like 25 years. Right.

Although, you know, Frasanti's back in the band now. And I got to say I'm curious about this new record because he's on it. You know, I'm a basic Frasante fan. So he's back. So like I'm way more curious about a new Red Out of Chili Peppers album than I would be otherwise. like the Josh Klinghoff era or Klingerhoff? I mean, there's only so much he could do, but. Yeah, I mean, I feel bad for him.

I don't really feel bad for him. He's in the fucking red hot chili peppers, you know? What about Metallica, though? So I like Metallica more than the chili peppers. I'll say that at the start. You know, it's funny with this band because they have, if you look at like classic era Metallica, It is almost like the opposite of the chili peppers, and that the chili peppers are like this goofy band singing about humping over slap bass and Metallica singing about like, you know, veterans of war who get their legs blown off and how they wish they could die.

You know, like that was like Metallica in the 80s. But I actually think Metallica in their own way is like a pretty funny band, like not intentionally. But just think of all the memes with Metallica. Yeah, I mean, some kind of monster is, like, I think, the most enduring Metallica work. That and, like, you know, my lifestyle determines my death style. I mean, that's tied up with some kind of monster, too, like the sane anger. Yeah. Some kind of monster stuff.

The same anger, snare sound. And, like, James Hetfield, like, his voice is pretty funny. You know, just singing in a James Hetfield voice is funny. And I don't know. I mean, I think their classic records hold up. I mean, I probably check out after the black album, but like load and reload. I like the radio songs from there. And I'm just fascinated by that era of Metallica, like the haircut era.

Yeah. Where they're wearing like suits. They kind of were like, I know Lars Ulrich likes U2. It almost seemed like Metallica was trying to be U2 in that era. Or Zizi Top or something like that. Or something like that. They're also a great live band. Have you seen Metallica live?

No, I've never seen. They're like a, oh, I'm sure they are. They're like the band you want to see in an arena. Like, number one, you know, or they're up there anyway. Like what I was saying before, like a loud, dumb band, that's what I want to hear at the end of a night at a festival. Like, that's why Metallica should just headline every festival. It'd be amazing.

Yeah. Yeah, they're the band you want to see at 10 o'clock when you just, like, want to, like, party. Yeah, all those, you know, like, welcome home sanitarium and one and fade to black yeah fucking put your beers in the I know you know hit the lights

there's a song about werewolves on the black album wherever I may roam you know yeah you know even that's a dumb song even like they're heavy songs from the 80s like the you know like fade to black I think is about suicide it is sanitarium is about I guess being in a sanitarium

um most of them are probably about drugs like master of puppets like somehow I know this even though I haven't really listened to any of them. They're good. I mean, like, Master of Puppets, Ride the Lightning, those are great records. And Justice for All,

I think they all hold up. I think with me with Metallica, load might be the album of theirs I've listened to the most, that war reload, because, look, they came out when I was 16. They were, like, the first Metallica albums I bought, like, as part of their album, their active album cycle.

Like the black album, I owned it. I'm sure of that. But like it was constantly on MTV, constantly on the radio. I didn't need to actively listen to a Metallica CD. Load was awesome because it advertised on the CD 78 minutes and 59 seconds. Like to say it filled the maximum capacity of a CD, which, you know, nowadays it's like, why the fuck would I possibly want that? especially if, you know, it's a really shitty version of Metallica. But, you know, I'm like taking five-hour bus rides to visit my brother at Penn State.

Like, I need the most music possible if I'm going to spend $16 on a CD. Also, like, 2 by 4 is a funny song. Ain't My Bitch is a funny song. The Unforgiven 2. Really funny song. Just the concept of that, I love, that they called it the Unforgiven 2. It's like... I think they made it an Unforgiven 3, right?

It's a trilogy. And it's at the end of every Unforgiven, they're like, you know what? There's more story here. We have not told the whole story. We need to expand this into an epic of rock proportions. I love the cover of Turn the Page that they did around that time, too. Was that on load or reload? No, they did like the garage days.

Yeah, they did that with like they covered whiskey in the jar and they covered turn the page. And they had like a... Whiskey in the jar. Oh, that's a terrible Hatfield. Can you do a Headfield? I, I,

yeah, give a, oh, fuel, that's a funny fucking song too. Oh, yeah, that's a jam, though. That's also a jam.

You can laugh at that song. Give me da-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-a. Give me, fuel, give me five, give me that which head is a yeah. Yeah, we're going to do an entire episode

in James Hetfield voice. Oh, my God. And we'll get actual James Hetfield to do a cameo, too. How amazing it would be. also I think we just have to point out that Metallica is a really funny name it's true it's true you know

has there been a band recently that put the name of their genre in the title of the band there's like a billion Scott bands that do that exactly and like with metal there'd be you know like there was metal church there were I think there were like other bands that had like metal in the name but is there I mean Deftones is an example of a band that like if they had the chance to do it over again you know it kind of locks them into a certain genre i don't know though i feel like that name is transcended uh the the genre i don't know

maybe i just i just like bands that have deaf in the in the name yeah deaf leopard deaf tones deaf you know deaf squad yeah it's great more deaf bands yeah all right we now reach the part of our episode that we call recommendation corner uh we're Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So I got to give a shout out to Midwest emo bands who are not at all from the Midwest of America. I love how this sound has transcended geography. So we're going to give a little bit of a focus to the European wing of Midwest emo.

A couple albums came out last Friday from bands that have been following for quite some time. The first is, you could be a cop. they're a band from Norway and they just released their quote unquote complete discography. It's a collection of songs they've released since 2017, very much in the realm of Raina Maria

or Mineral, that's slow, pretty, completely off-key vocals. That stuff I love so much. So, you know, it's an hour long and there's a lot to dig into. I think they underwent some lineup changes throughout the past four years, so you get to hear many different versions

of the same band. Otherwise, a new album from a band called I Feel Fine. They're from England. The record's called The Colden Every Season. So if you listen to Indycast, I know you love gang vocals and stuff you hear on like Jeff Rosenstock or pop albums or dogleg for that matter. This band does the gang vocal thing. Like, that's the whole vocals. Like, they do that all the time, except it's within the context of these.

very kind of American football, pretty guitar, RPGO, clean guitar sort of thing going on. So it makes me think of like an unplugged crash of rhinos. I know that's kind of an Indycast Hall of Fame type of band. Also, the only emo band from the UK that I think really, you know, made it across the sea. So very autumnal, but like it's like, you know, when the leaves change, but you still want to like get a gang of people together to yell at stuff, I feel fine. That's the album for you. All right. And the band I want to talk about is called Tone Starts Band Hut. And you're going to want to look at the notes on this episode for the spelling of it. It's a very crazy spelling.

But you're going to want to check this band out. They're two-person group from Orlando. They formed in 2008. They actually have 17 records to their name. So they've been very prolific over the years. However, they haven't put out an album since 20. but they will be putting out a record next month on October 22nd called Petunia and it's being teased with a really great single called What Has Happened

and that you want to go check out you definitely want to go to their bandcap page or I think it's also in all the streaming platforms but this is a band that I would say falls under the Indy Jam umbrella I've heard them discussed on Indy Jam Twitter this week I would say that

when you listen to the record you can hear elements of groups like Cann and the Velvet Underground, a lot of 60 psychedelia. However, this new single in particular, it reminds me of almost like a jammier radiohead. Like if Radiohead had jammed

out on songs from Kid A, it stretched them out to like seven or eight minutes. It would sound like the new single. And I think that's also true of like a lot of other songs on the record. Really good stuff. Again, lots of kind of hypnotic grooves that go to really interesting places and cool guitar work and lots of, you know,

synths and just a lot of cool stuff going on. So if you're into that kind of thing, I think you will like this band. Again, they're called Tone Starts Band Hut. Look at our notes for the spelling, so you know how to look them up. But yeah, that record Petunia drops next month. I think it's worth checking out. I had no idea that the hut was part of it. Like, I thought it was Tone Starts band. I did not know about the hut part. I looked up specifically how to to pronounce this band name. Because I've seen it over the years. I never knew how to pronounce it.

I knew I'd have to be saying it out loud on a podcast. And according to what I saw, that is how to say it. If I got it wrong, if you know this band, please let me know. But I think that's how you say it. But yeah, definitely look them up. Kind of shocked them from Orlando. I always thought they were like a New York band because I just remember them from like the early 2010s.

And also they, I think they had a few songs in the soundtrack. for the James Franco movie, Palo Alto. One of the worst movies I've seen in theaters. Just like, imagine what a James Franco book and movie would be like... What inspired you go see that in the theater? Look, in L.A. at the time, I would go see any movie if it had air conditioning in the summer. So, like, there it is. This James Franco directorial effort looks like it could be good.

I'm going to go see... Yeah, I saw it at like 3 o'clock in the afternoon. man. I had no standards at that point. Oh, man. Well, that is a great note to end this episode on. So thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie.

And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box. Yes.