Indiecast - Mailbag: The Greatest Year For Music, Album Tracklists, And The Ultimate Festival Lineup

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

Indiecast hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen oftentimes reflect on formative albums from their younger days, but what year definitively had the best music? In this week's episode, Steven and Ian answer listener questions about the greatest year for music (spoiler alert: it's not 2022) (33:24), which albums have impeccable tracklists (Radiohead, we're looking at you) (26:22), and their picks for the dream festival lineup (several pre-2000s artists make the cut) (41:31).Along with answering fan emails, Steven and Ian talked about some of the more ludicrous indie news from this week. Car Seat Headrest's Will Toledo officially came out as a furry in a recent interview, a fact that has been fairly out in the open for some time now. Ariel Pink had one of his first big interviews after being canceled for attending the January 6th D.C. riots, and it was in the Jewish magazine Tablet (8:02). They also shout-out Ian's recent interview with Bartees Strange, whose new album Farm To Table dropped today (19:05).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 93 below, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast on this show. We talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we respond to email sent by you, the Indycast listener. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. It was his idea to name Joker 2 after a Fallout Boy album. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? Yeah, no one in the writing room believe me that Fallout Boy made a remix album called Make a

America Psycho again in 2015. I thought that would have been a good tagline for a Joker movie. But imagine being shouted down in that writer's room for being two on the nose. I just want to point out that Fallout Boy indeed made a remix album that featured Migos, Black Thought, Wiz Khalifa and Azalea Banks. Like, is this Fallout Boy canon? I've never heard anyone talk about Make America's Psycho again. I don't know. that is an album I will never listen to. I can guarantee that. That is like red flags galore in that track list. I should mention, for those who don't know, the name of Joker 2, which I think is going to happen. It's been reported to happen. It's called Foley A D, which is also the name of Fallout Boys' 2008 album. I don't know where that falls in the Fallout Boy canon. I personally am not a Fallout Boy fan. I don't know where you stand.

I am like a thanks for the memories only fallout boy fan. Like I get the feeling sort of similar to like my chemical romance that if I like this band a lot more, it would be very beneficial to my career as a music writer. But like I just I just can't fake it, you know, with them or panic at the disco or I mean, I am not going to lie about that era having any sort of meaning to me beyond. Oh, that's when like I went fully indie rock. It was just abundantly clear that that type of emo held nothing for me. Some of those early singles are okay?

Yeah, they're great. Like, sugar, we're going down swinging and what else? I can't remember. That's what I remember. Oh, they were awesome. All those fallout voice songs. I was just like waiting for you to like start saying like my chemical romance or like taking back Sunday songs and just.

Well, it's funny. I almost said an All-American Reject song because isn't All-American Reject swing swing? is them. I almost said that. Dance, dance, dance, that's the one. Dance, dance. That's fall-up boy. But, you know, didn't Patrick Stump put out a record called Soul Punk? Probably.

Wasn't that like a, that just sounds awful. Like his voice, I cannot stand. No. Pretty grating. How was your vacation, by the way? You were on vacation? That's what we had to bank an episode last week, our indie castes episode was banked. And just the word of warning, we're going to be banking.

next week's episode because I'm going on vacation. This is like vacation central for both of us. So we're going on tape delay. We're recording episodes like in two week bunches this month. But how was your vacation? You're with the college friends. You're having like a cathartic experience. It's nostalgia. It's digging up old revelations from the past. This is what I'm imagining happened last week. Yeah, I was I was picturing. And I also like went to my childhood home as well. So it was kind of dumb. Oh, my God. Yeah, I was expecting my life to be like a one week long real estate song where, you know, it's, you know, kind of this languid pace.

And I'm looking wistfully into the distance thinking about how, you know, the passage of time affects memory and seeing the town I don't recognize. And, you know, like there was a lot of that. But in reality was more like, you know, Jeff Rosenstocks worry or read music speak Spanish where you go back to the record, like the Plan 9 music that I used to. to go to on the corner in Charlottesville to buy CDs. That's now like an upscale dumpling spot. Like the UCD store I would go to is now like a Thai place. And yeah, like every single, this too also happened when I went back to Athens, Georgia. Like, I don't remember an urban outfitters being, you know, in downtown.

Yeah, there's really nowhere in America to go. That maintains that, like, in a sense of, you know, kind of small town. especially the college towns, like they got to cater to people who need like a Trader Joe's now, who need like a target now. But the one thing, the one thing that remained the same when I went back to Virginia was the college radio station. I like dropped by. I saw a guy like an older gentleman with a ponytail on the microphone. It was Sunday morning. He was completely alone like I was when I would do my my shows and like 10 minutes of banter for every minute of. of music. Like college radio

never, ever change. I beg of you. Well, see, there's a college radio station here in Minneapolis called Radio K, which is a long-running station, and it depends on where I am in the city, if I can pick it up. It's not a city-wide signal. It's pretty weak.

But whenever I tune into it, they're always playing like Nirvana songs, or they're playing like, I heard him play Ramble On once by Led Zeppelin. It was like, is this college radio, or is this like 106.7 the bear you know like this is very classic rock

here as I was a little surprised because I remember in the 90s I would visit Minneapolis and listen to Radio K and they were playing you know neutral milk hotel and things like that or circulatory system you know like elephant six type records and very much of the indie rock of the time

but maybe I'm just tuning into maybe there's like one classic rock person on staff who like I'm just going to play come as you are you know as like that's going to be my subversive act, just something totally unexpected for like a hip college radio station. Well, yeah, you were talking about the innocence of small towns. Like my hometown, my boyhood record store just closed this year.

And it might still be open. It's like it's in the process of winding down. So like they hung on for a long time. When you say they're winding down, does that mean like I just remember when like Circuit City started closing down. you could get like 90% off their backstock. And, you know, none of it was like stuff I'd ever use. But you just imagine like what you could come up with in like a record store's final days.

You could probably buy that Fall Up Boy remix album for, you know, $199. That's definitely on clearance at this point. The most profound moment I actually had as far as like music goes and record stores is when I was in Philadelphia, I was like walking down Pachyunk and by the Italian market. And I saw this enormous outside display of used CDs for three bucks, which is, you know, like triple of what I would pay in 1996. And the first thing I saw, like maybe my eyes trained to it was Sugar's File Underly Easy Listening, still there after all these years. That's a cutout bin classic. Underrated record. Yeah, I think so.

That's under, I mean, Copper Blue is just unimpeachable. So then File Under Easy Listening, not as good, but still a quite good record. So, yeah, well, maybe I'll stop by. Maybe they have a copy of that. I'll drive five hours to my hometown, try to pick up a cheap file under easy listening. Bear Weather Johnson, Monster, all the classics. Yeah, you can find those at any half-price books for pennies.

So I wouldn't have to drive. I could probably find file under easy listening to it at the local half-price books. We have to get to this story. You sent me this article yesterday. the day before we recorded, Tablet Magazine, which is, is that like a Jewish magazine?

It is. I believe it's a Jewish, I believe it's a Jewish culture publication. Yeah. It considers itself a online magazine focused on Jewish news and culture. Okay. They did a story on Ariel Pink this week,

and it's a story about, essentially, the story was written by this person who's obviously an Ariel Pink super fan. And it's talking about how he was canceled. I'm going to put canceled in air quotes here after Ariel Pink was seen. Well, I guess he posted photos of himself, or I guess John Mouse did of them. At the January 6th rally, not the actual riot.

I guess we should distinguish this, that they were at the rally to stop the steel rally. But then they retired to their hotel. room to take a nap before it devolved into a riot. So Ariel Pink didn't storm the Capitol, but he was there protesting the certification of the election because he supposedly feels that it was stolen from Donald Trump. Although, I was thinking about this as I was reading the story, does Ariel Pink really believe that, or did he go to this rally ironically? Like, I could see him not having any political affiliation at all, just going to this rally

because it's like a provocative thing to do. I mean, he has said that he likes Donald Trump, but I was like, is Ariel Pink, like, is he intellectual enough to actually, like, have thought about this on any level? I don't know. But anyway, the article was defending Ariel Pink. And I have some thoughts on it, but I was curious, like, what did you think?

Like, did you read the whole thing? I mean, the point where he's, started to distinguish of like, no, I didn't go to the ride. I didn't go to the storming of the Capitol. I just went to the rally. Like, that's the point. Well, that is an important distinction, to be fair. It's definitely an important distinction. And although I don't think it absolves him as much as he thinks it does, but like, I don't know. Like, I'm just reading this thing. And like, and again, there's maybe like 10 songs of Ariel Pink's that I like legitimately love. But, and it also is disappointing that him and John Mouse got.

canceled before, you know, the mainstreaming of the opinion that their music is mostly unlistenable bullshit. But, I mean, reading this art, like, and also, like, Tablet Magazine, if I ever get canceled, I went to Hebrew secondary school until I was 16. I hope you guys got my back the way you have Ariel Pinks. This is an extreme. Well, you got, you, you got canceled by Childish Gambino fans, though. I mean, so you've weathered your own cancelization scandals. Would you, you know, like Kid Cuddy. Yes. And, uh, Childish Gambino. They tried to, they couldn't take you down.

They tried to. But yeah, I mean, I was just like my brain cracks and like egg yolks spilling out of my ears, just like reading how sympathetic this article is towards Ariel Pink. And you know what? Like I feel a bit of, like I will always read these articles if only because I just wanted, I just so interested as like what happens to a human being. after, you know, something like this. You know, he has a wife and I think a kid as well.

Like, you got to, like, I just really wonder, like, what that day-to-day life is like for them. But what I got from this was a very similar vibe to a variety article that about Ryan Adams' career reboot, where it talks about, like, how he got like a crisis. That published when you were on vacation. We missed that last week. I was very happy to not have to talk about it.

but now I kind of have to... Well, and we should just say quick that for people they didn't see that, there was this variety article that was published last week where Ryan Adams wasn't interviewed. They interviewed his PR team, essentially, talking about how he performed some shows in New York at the Beacon, and I think he was also in Boston, that were very successful shows, apparently.

I saw this week that he just announced a tour. He's coming to Minneapolis, my neck of the woods, this summer. and I think he's playing like the middle of the country, the heartland of America. So he's rolling it back. But yeah, it was very interesting that Ryan Adams himself was not interviewed in this piece. It was just PR people talking about him,

you know, attempting this comeback. What I think is interesting about the Ariel Pink article. And I'll say, I read the whole article because I do have a, I guess, a morbid fascination with artists who are in this situation. I'm curious about their headspace and what was going on. I mean, I think the flaw of all these articles is that they tend to come from a sympathetic place for the artist and not a more impartial place, which I think is the weakness of this

particular article, which I think was written with the presumption that if Ariel Pink wouldn't have had this January 6th controversy, that he would still be as critically lauded as he was in 2010. And I think that's clearly not true. That, you know, certainly the controversy with all the Trump stuff certainly accelerated his fall from prestige. But I think it's pretty clear if you look at the trajectory of his career and also just indie music in general that his style of music

and also just his style of persona had already fallen out of favor, I think with a lot of music critics, especially like this younger generation of critics. I mean, like, one of the things I thought was interesting about that story, and the author didn't really delve into this, but it really does expose, like, how constructed a lot of forms of indie fame are, that, you know, you can seem like you're famous if you're being written about a lot, and then you seem less famous if you're not being written a lot about.

But in terms of, like, organic popularity, Like with Ariel Pink, like, I question how much was ever there, you know, because if you want to use Ryan Adams as an example, like, he can still play big theaters, even though the media has basically just ignored him now for like the last two or three years. He does have an audience that he can draw. To name me an even bigger example, like Morgan Wallen, you know, like he was, you know, derided for being caught on tape using an, using the N-Whor. and he's persona non grata now with a lot of people in the media, but like that guy's playing stadiums. You know, he still has an audience. The fact about cancel culture is that the only people that can cancel you are people

who like you. You know, like the people in the media, if they already don't like you anyway, if they're now disparaging you even more, I question how devastating that is. But if the people who like you still like you or they don't care about what the media is, saying, like, you can't really be canceled. So, like, with Ariel Pink, I think what that story exposes in a way is that, like, this guy never really had a constituency, I think, that was real. I would, does that make sense? Yeah, I think what you're saying is on point and also, you know, having lived in L.A. for like 10 years during, like, the peak of Ariel Pink Mania, like, there is

an audience. And I think what this article was really trying to say is that, like, look, there is still like an audience for this. And, you know, in a similar way, like, I'll, like, talk. But is there, though? Because I feel like that would be self-evident. You know? Like, they talk about his record label dropping him.

Which is the most concrete example. If you want to say he's canceled, like, that would be something I would say, okay, that's a concrete example of that. But I also feel like he's dropped by his record label because there's a commercial imperative there where the label is saying, we don't want to be associated with this because we think it's going to hurt our overall brand. And that's why we're dropping him. Whereas again, Morgan Wallin, he hasn't been dropped because they've done the calculation

that, yeah, he has bad media, but he still has a big audience. So we can withstand this. Or on Broadway, there was just, there's like a new Michael Jackson musical. Michael Jackson's been accused of way worse things than either Ariel Pink or Morgan Wallen or anyone else. But someone decided, okay, we can put millions of dollars into this production because even though there's a controversy around him, there's still an audience. And I'm not saying, like, there are people who like Ariel Pink, but I just question again, even if you took away this controversy. Like, would he still be a big star?

I don't know if he was ever a big star. But I think, you know, he would be able to, you know, play clubs, like, you know, do shows, like have his albums talked about. I mean, he's still got like 750,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. I mean, look, there's somebody out there listening to the, I mean, and it reminds me of like a similar circumstance where I saw someone, you know, a friend of mine, he was like clearly listening to Brand News Deja N10 do on his iPod or no, iPhone, because iPods don't exist. And like, this guy had no idea of like what happened to them in the past 10 years. So I think that maybe, I don't know.

know. Maybe people don't know or they don't care. I think people such as ourselves who are in the trend-hashing business maybe tend to forget how little the average person pays attention to music. I could imagine a very substantial amount of people who like more or less stopped interacting with indie rock in like 2014. And, you know, that maybe that's the audience now. Yeah, or it could be 13 year old kids who are starting to get to get into this kind of music and they're listening to Ariel Pink.

It'll be interesting to see maybe in 5, 10 years he becomes like the R. Stevie Moore figure, you know? To make an Ariel Pink reference, like he becomes like this kind of middle-aged cult hero that's rediscovered by a new generation. I mean, I could see that happening with him.

I am so impressed by that reference. Like, you really brought it back full circle. Like that is so artful right there Well, again, we are professional indie cast Or indie rock podcast host So we need to be prepared to bring out references Well, let's go to the polar opposite of Ariel Pink In terms of like people having good feelings about them

I feel like we should talk quick about the new Bartis Strange record That is dropping today. It's called Farm to Table I believe you have a profile About Bartis that you wrote for the ringer Is that already out? it went up this morning. The morning that we're recording. The morning that we're recording and boy, like, there's, like, nothing, like, the feeling

of, like, waking up. Like, that's another thing that's the biggest difference between the East Coast and the West Coast. Like, when I wake up in the morning here, the discourse has already begun. Like, I would wake up at 7 o'clock in the morning in Philadelphia. Nothing popping on Twitter. But, yeah, there's always that, like, pit of the stomach feeling where you have, like, this huge piece that's going up and, like, you're not sure. you're just like, uh, how are people going to react to this?

But, you know, I feel pretty confident because like, as you were saying, like, Barty Strange is perhaps, like, I can't remember the last indie artist who was so consensously beloved and people want to root for the guy. I also feel like I'm like the 14,000th person to write a Partiz Strange profile. Like, that was like the joke that we kind of met upon where it's like, I cannot believe that we haven't, you know, done an interview yet. Yeah, that is strange that you have. Because I talked to him a few years ago.

I'm going to be writing something that's going to be coming out in a while. We should say quick for those who don't know, Barty Strange, he's a 33-year-old singer-songwriter. He put out his first album a few years ago. It was called Live Forever. And that was in conjunction with an EP of covers of songs by the National. That he put out a few months before that is called... Say goodbye to Pretty Boy.

Say Goodbye to Pretty Boy. And he works in a lot of different. styles. I think he kind of initially came out of the email scene, but there's also like a lot of sort of R&B in his music, a lot of like kind of traditional indie rock in his music. And the new album that he is out today, it's called Farm to Table. It's his second full-length record. I think it's like a quite good record. I like this record a lot. I think it's definitely, I think, an improvement over the first record, which I also thought was really great. I'm really impressed by the production of this record.

One of the things that people always talk about with Barty Strange is his ability to go to different genres and kind of combine them in a very organic way that feels like it's all of one piece. It somehow flows together really well. And I think on this record in particular, he's really refined

that mix of different styles. It's a very silky sounding record. It's a great headphones album. I assume you like the record since you wrote this long profile of Bartese. I'm just curious like what you think of. Yeah, I think that Live Forever was, I mean, an album that people really were open to receiving in 2020. A few months before it had come out, like I was wondering if it would just be kind of marooned in this emo, DIY hardcore sort of scene.

Like maybe like a band like boxing in a way and not crossover to indie rock proper. But yeah, I like that album a lot. And this album, it's, I like it. a lot too. I still think he has like his total masterpiece like ahead of him. Um, you know, because this one, it's like, it's definitely a leveling up in a way. It doesn't quite feel as eager to prove itself in the way that Live Forever did. Um, and also it's like still kind of streamlined. It still feels like a very kind of intimate, uh, record. It's like 10 songs. It goes more acoustic than the previous one. It gets into, you know, his background is like a soul and kind of.

country singer. And, you know, like more than anything, it's like an advertisement for Barty Strange, the individual, like someone who just has like a lot of interesting things to say about a lot of topics that don't really get covered much in indie rock. And I think one of the, one of the most poignant parts of the interview I did was he talked about how the National is his favorite band. And one of the reasons is because Matt Berninger was 36 years old when he made boxer. And Barty Strange had like an entire career in like political consulting prior to being in the Obama administration. He was, the FCC. And I think that in a way makes him, if not necessarily more relatable, because I mean, this guy's excelled in many fields. It just makes him seem like a more well-rounded person who, you know,

has life experience to bring into this music. I think the one, but the one, the one thing that really, you know, kind of made me chuckle in a way that I shouldn't laugh is that he's got a song on this new record called Hold the Lime, which was inspired by George Floyd and his daughter. And when I saw him perform that song live for car seat,

he was opening for car seat headrest when I interviewed him. And, you know, you're seeing him up on stage pouring his soul out for this, like, very wrenching, politically astute song. And to my immediate left, there's like a group of college kids who were dressed in killer whale onesies, like just watching him play this song. It's a little bit of, it's a bit, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in seeing, you know,

Barty Strange do these songs for like, you know, what seems like every single indie A list are under the sun, you know, I can't wait until he does his headline tours. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if your piece explores this, but I mean, I don't think we've mentioned that like Barty Strange, he's a black musician and he's often playing for mostly white audiences. And that's like an example that you're mentioning right there. I mean, I feel like he's talked about this, but that must be, there must be lots of instances of cognitive dissonance,

like when you have that type of dynamic going on at a show. Yeah, especially if you're playing for car seat at rest. Right. Who's a furry, by the way? We didn't get to that because we're already like way over on our banter here. We were going to talk about Will Toledo confirming that he's a furry, but we ran out of time. We just have so much to talk about.

Maybe we'll get to that in our banked episode. We'll do an Indycast investigation into, because I mean, that was sort of common knowledge, right? Yeah, it was an open secret. It's like not even an open secret because it wasn't really a secret. But, you know, it's just, I don't, I think this one was him just kind of opening up about it and like just saying like, hey, here's me,

this is what I'm dealing with. And, you know, good for Will Toledo. Good for him. good for him, good for the furry community to have a high profile person talking about that. But yeah, we're way over in our banter here. We have to get to our mailbag here.

We do. Which is also the meat of our episode. And thank you all for writing in. We had a ton of letters because, you know, we had that week where we didn't do an episode. So we're trying to empty out the mailbag here a little bit. We also had like a lot of good letters too.

Like things that things are giving us material to talk about on the show during a time of the year where things are slowing down. So it's nice to have some content here. Do you want to read our first? I do indeed. So this is someone writing in from Richmond, Virginia, a part of the country I hold very dear.

And he has a question about Joyce. We don't have the name here. Yeah, we don't have the name. Keep talking. I'm going to look up the name. Okay. So Joyce Manor posted what looks like an alternate track list for their new record over the weekend. And while it's interesting to think about, it's somewhat unsettling to see an album tracklist completely different from what I've grown to know and love like the one time that I posted an alternate version and never hung over again.

This is referring to Barry Johnson for Joyce Manor sharing the original idea for the tracklist of never hung over again, which was he admit just like absolutely bad shit insane. So with this in mind, our letter writer has two questions. His name is Andrew, by the way. I just found it. Andrew. Andrew from Richmond. Is there an album you think has a perfect track list? Not just your favorite record, but one where the songs flow from one another perfectly.

You can't really imagine them working in another way. Kid A comes to mind for him. Everything on this album seems to be David Caruso. Glasses removed in its right place. Yes. And is there one album that you think you could drastically improve by changing up the track list. Thanks. Love the show. Andrew, Richmond, VA. And thank you for the kid a shout out there, by the way. There's a book about that called

This Isn't Happening that I wrote a couple years ago. Obligatory plug there. Thank you. Please take a drink out in Indycast Nation. Yeah, I was thinking about this one. Didn't we have a conversation on the show about hot fuss, the killers being a tracklist that needs to be redone? Was that on this show or was that on Celebration Rock? I feel like we've talked about that before, or am I completely hallucinating this? You're probably not. I mean, we've talked about the killer so much on this one and also just like super nerdy track listing stuff. We've probably answered that question as far as like first half, second half, like which albums fall off. But I, you know, I do feel like we've had

this conversation. And maybe it was on Twitter about like how if you took the second half of that record, which is like notoriously not the singles and dispersed them throughout the record, maybe like hot fuss would be seen as like a classic album as opposed just like a really popular album. It's a classic album. I'm giving a classic album status. I mean, you could say the same thing about the Joshua Tree too. I think that's similar, although I love side two of the Joshua Tree, but that's another album where you have like three number one hits all in a row at the start

of the record and then it's deep cuts after that. But I don't know. I was thinking, you know, Andrew mentioned Kid A. I think that's a great example of an album that flows really. well from beginning to end. I'm a big fan of albums that break the songs into two sides, where you have the rocking side and you have the quiet side. And I think the ultimate example of that for me is Tattoo You, the Rolling Stones record, you know, starts off with Start Me Up and then you have like waiting on a friend on the second side. I love that structure.

David Bowie did something similar with Lowe where you have the songs on side one and then side two are all these instrumental pieces. Again, I love that dichotomy. I think the strokes did that on the new abnormal. I mentioned tattoo you. Trust me on that. I mentioned tattoo you in the review of that record, and it's a similar thing, like where side one has more rockers

and then side two is more kind of downbeat songs. I really like that structure. It's almost like a more conceptual type playlist versus, again, looking at a playlist as, whole. I don't know how you feel about that. What do you think of as really well-sequenced records? Yeah, I would say that this one, I have to bring up Bleed American because it seems like it always comes up in the emo slash pop punk slash pop rock realm of like this is how you construct a pop rock record, which, you know, the first song, the side one track one, they just like get right

into it. It's the, you know, the hardest rocking song. This accelerates a little bit. it to the single, then goes back up again. And then the sixth song, six out of 11 or five out of 10, that's where you got to do the acoustic ballad. Then you got to come back, slightly come back up, maybe do like a bigger ballad track eight, track nine, you get like the penultimate banger and then the six minute ballad. Like it is, that's how you construct it. I think, I just have to say quick that you mentioned Bleed American and I plugged my book.

So I think our audience is already drunk, right? now. Yeah. You know, if you're taking a drink while listening to this, you're already wasted, you know, halfway into this episode. One of my, um, one of my, uh, favorite albums of, uh, 2022 is Anxious Little Green House, which, um, does the Bleed American style in a 10 song, uh, 10 song track list. But yeah, every time, like taking back Sunday also where you want to be, another great example of the bleed American format. Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm as much about the conceptual structuring as you are. but as far as like albums that I think would be improved by resequencing I don't maybe I just have like so I guess more respect for artists like who intentionally sequenced that I don't want to change things to the point where where I've like heard albums that were incorrectly sequenced in a leak or whatever I still like have trouble reframing uh once the correct track list comes out like I think of the return to Cookie Mountain that began with wolf it wolf like

me or Passion Pits Manors where like two of the songs had their titles switched. It's still a little jarring. Also, the Modest Mouse album, We Were Dead Before the Ship even sang to one in 2007. That album leaked in reverse. And so like Invisible was the first song. It's like, oh yeah, this sounds like it makes sense. Yeah, I can't think of too many albums that were I'd like intentionally re-sequence it, you know? Yeah, I'm on board with that. And again, even like with hot fuss, I like the second side of that record. I don't mind that one side is loaded with all the singles, and then side two is more of like the deep cuts or, you know,

the sort of dark horse favorites. I like that. Again, maybe goes back to that idea of like thinking of an album having two sides and having a different personality to each side. I always think that's pretty cool, which is admittedly a very old-fashioned way of thinking about albums. You know, we now, I think, maybe people are more inclined to think of them almost like a playlist, where it is more about having a more consistent experience throughout,

rather than that sort of duality of two sides of a record. But yeah, I don't know. I'm with you. I can defend the artist's intent. I always think that's a good thing to do. Well, let's get to our second letter here. This comes from Enrico in Toronto. Thank you for writing in.

Enrico writes, hey, Stephen and Ian. K.A. the Sisko and Ebert of indie rock criticism. Holy mackerel. Who's Cisco and who's Ebert? I mean, Ebert was the guy who famously got sober, but he's also passed away, so I don't know if I want to go with that. Well, they're both passed away. Oh, really?

Yeah, Siskel died first. He died in the late 90s, and then Ebert died about 15 years later. Oh, right, Ebert and Roper. I remember that Drake lyric. But look, I'm going to say, I think I'm probably fatter than you. so I'll take Ebert. I'm pretty sure about that. It's better than Stockton and Malone, which you've also been called. Yeah, that's true.

Love the podcast. I want to thank you for the weekly hit of nostalgia. From mentions of Ugly Kid Joe, Steve Miller band's greatest hits, The Flaming Lips playing the Peach Pit after dark, Nana Tuo, and more. Well, thank you. By question for both of you is inspired by the latest mid-year review pod.

Stephen was saying that 2022 might be the best year for music in a while. So my question is, what do you guys think is the greatest year for music? As part of Generation X, I'm partial to 1997, but I'm interested to hear what you guys think. Thanks, Enrico. The greatest year for music. This is a bar room conversation starter right here. Yeah, I'm trying to think of like 1997. Like, I mean, that was the year that tub thumping and semi-charmed life came out.

Big, big British rock year. That was OK Computer and the Verve, Urban Hems. be here now, super grass, and for the money. I think the self-titled blur record might have been that year. Yeah. Also, freak nasty did the dip that year. Yes, yeah, so it's definitely a good year. But yeah, do you have an answer for this?

What do you think is the greatest year for music? So I took, maybe I just, like, misread the question, but, like, he said the last greatest year for music. so this kind of narrows it down. Oh yeah, the last greatest year. Yes, because I mean, yeah. That's an interesting phrasing. Oh, he's saying like the most recent year to now.

Yes. Okay. Yes, which, you know, I love that because otherwise, you know, we get into like, you know, Homer Simpson music was perfected in 1974 type talk. So you read it properly. I think I read it improperly. But you read it properly. So anyway.

it. Yeah. So, I mean, questions like these are all, like, you know, he's like Enrico said, he's gen X, partial in 1997. And I think any sort of determination about the last great year of music is inherently wrapped up in, you know, some kind of nostalgia or formative experience. Like, I think for some people, 2022 may indeed be like their 1997. It's like, but I just won't be able to feel it because I'm like 42 years old going to work every single day, married, a homeowner. It's all these things. But I think we could say, like, objectively, 2016 was a year which I have a lot of trouble imagining us recreating because there was so much finality baked into that year because you got like a Leonard Cohen

album and a David Bowie album, both which were considered kind of masterpieces. And then they died several months later. Prince died that year. It was the last Frank Ocean album, the last Tribe Called Quest album, the last radio head album, the last Beyonce album, at least until now. Yeah. these are until now. Yeah, there was a Beyonce record that year, although there was a new

Beyonce record just announced this week, but her last kind of full-fledged solo record was 2016. I would imagine this is, it's definitely going to be the last tribe called Quest album. Frank Ocean, you know, Radiohead, Rihanna, her last album, which

the, you know, that album's reputation has just grown immensely since it came out. The last good Kanye album, the last hotel year album. And And, you know, there was also the best 1975 album, Pup, Misky, Jeff Rosen. I mean, the list goes on and on and on about like... 22 a million, the Bonny Bear record, which is, when it's last record, but that for many people

is his best record. And I think no matter what genre you were into, it just seems like there was so many heavy hitters, like whether you were rap, pop, emo, punk, whatever. And also, yeah, a little something happened in November. of 2016, which kind of adds to an end of an era sort of feel. You know, I remember having conversations in 2016 about like how 2012 felt like a more, I don't know, positive, generous time on the internet. But, you know, after Trump got elected, like the conversation around like what around music and what music was supposed to do and how

it should be talked about, like, it completely changed. Like, for better, for worse, who's to say? But, you know, everything about two. 2016 sets up as being like, that is an end of an era right there. Like, we are looking before and after. Yeah, it's pretty wild to think, yeah, we had a new David Bowie record that year. You know, it's just amazing. It wasn't that long ago, but that seems like a lifetime ago. And like the first big thief record came out in the year.

And I was just looking at my list here. Yeah, and I think you mentioned Mitzki, but that was her, I think, best record came out that year. Puber 2. Carcy had rest. Yeah. Carcy had rest at his peak. Yeah, really fascinating year. Yeah, I misread this question. Because I thought it meant like, what was the greatest year for music?

And I was thinking, you know, if I was thinking like all time, I'd probably say something like 1967 or 1971. I mean, 67, you have like the first records by Jimmy Hendricks and the Velvet Underground and the doors and like all this stuff. And you have Sergeant Pepper and yada, yada, yada. I was thinking of like the greatest year of my lifetime, and I came up with 1994. I just think, especially if you like alternative rock, that's such a great year. You know, everything from the first Weezer record to the downward spiral to, you know, Nirvana, the unplugged record.

Green Day Duky came out that year. I mean, just like a... Diary. I got to give a shout out to Diary. Just a B-Thousin by Guided by Voices came out that year. just like a laundry list of classic records. I think I'm with you that 2016 is certainly like the last

like really momentous year. I mean, just all of those records that you were listing. They really do feel like landmarks in very crucial ways. You know, from blonde to Laifabre Pablo to, you know, the Beyonce record, on and on and on. I'll say, and I think we did an episode on this year

that maybe the best. year before that is 2005. Didn't we do an episode in 2005? That was a Celebration Rock episode. Was it? Okay. You're correct and it was Celebration Rock. Okay.

That was a really great year for, again, just like, Aughts era indie. You know, spoon, gimme fiction, the whole steady separation Sunday. The Slater Kinney record, The Woods came out that year. I'm trying to think of like, what else? From 2005.

I mean, we have Alligator. we have ill and boy. We have late registration. We have the self-title broken social scene. We have silent alarm. I think World Apart came out that year. Another indie cast drink. Yes, exactly.

So, yeah, that's a great year. But yeah, 2016, that feels like the right answer. And we'll see if 2022 stacks up. I think it does so far. Really strong year. Although, yeah, we won't have a new David Bowie or Leonard Cohen, unless there's something in the vaults that hasn't been released.

Let's get to, I think this is going to be our final question for this episode or final letter. This comes from, let's see, Heidi and, man, I'm going to butcher the pronunciation of this, take another drink. Callie Spell, Montana. Callie Spell Montana, Heidi. Hi, Stephen and Ian. I recently stumbled on a British podcast in which the host asks famous people. to create their dream festival lineup. It's called the lineup with Sean Kevaney,

but you're not obligated to name that since it's competition on the air. I did it. You know, we're friendly to other people. Honor amongst podcasters. Exactly. The guests are asked to choose five acts, living or dead, for a one-day dream music festival. The morning performer should be mellow, ease-in-to-day music,

followed by two, get-into-the-the-spirit-type acts. The penultimate act is ideally playing as the sunsets, and then there's your ultimate late-night headliner. If you were invited on this podcast, what would you choose as your lineup? I like the concept because the musicians dearest to our hearts aren't necessarily festival-worthy, so that makes it more than just to name your favorite band's exercise.

I actually like this idea. This is a very compelling setup here. I've never heard this podcast, but I like the concept of it. Do you have a festival lineup in mind that you would have following these parameters? I'm so never going to get invited onto the lineup with Sean Kevaney because, you know, I'm like immediately thinking contrarian arguments here. Like the previous letter talked about the last great year, which narrowed it down.

But like this is asking us like dead or alive throughout the annals of history. So it's like, I mean, does this mean like I have like the opportunity to get like Beethoven up in there? Like you're, you know, maybe. The first people in like the Paleozoic era who like, you know, hit a rock with a stick and like made drum music. Or, you know, Robert Johnson. Oh, yeah. Robert Johnson, his fees would probably not be that high either. Yeah.

You could get Robert Johnson for, you know, a song, I think, for this. Yeah. And also it's like, you know, most people I would imagine would say like, hey, what if we got the Beatles? But like, is it the Beatles who stopped touring? like are is it a alternative reality Beatles where like john lennon lived um but i think the idea is that you can be very specific about who it is so yeah like you said if you're naming like a famous band you could say the 1960s for beetles you know you can be that so yeah there you know your options are almost limitless here yeah and you know i'm just like overwhelmed with like options so i mean

i mean the first thing that comes to mind is that mellow easing to the the morning music. Like, I am not a mellow easing to the day guy. Like, I was listening yesterday to the new candy album at 730. But, yeah, I would say, and again, this is like really stretching the limits of believability. Would be, I would want to see Talk Talk. And again, I know they didn't. I don't think they performed Laughing Stock or Spirit of Eden live ever.

So, you know, just something to see what it would be like. maybe they would just kind of go off in very interesting, strange directions. But, you know, I'm going to go with that just for like my own selfish purposes. And even though like I'm like low key thinking, no, we're going to start out with turnstile, that would be the first part. And also, you know, with getting to the spirit bands, I'm thinking of like, you know, sly and family stone or like my morning jacket, circa Okonoko is like the peak of their powers. But also, you know what?

This is my festival. I want like waves at prima. and like Salem at the Fader Fort. So you want like, you want like train wrecks? Yes. I want everyone to have like the worst and most memorable time here. Like I've never been to Prima Vera. I want to see what Waves was like.

I want to recreate those days. And I also want like wean to play for like five straight hours at the end of the night. So that'd be good. I think the spirit of this question is just so incompatible with my personality that like I'm taking the question seriously, but also I just can't help myself. Well, see, I thought about this question a lot. And I had, you know, my original thought was that I'm just going to stack this with artists or bands that I would have loved to have seen, but I can't because they either don't exist

anymore or like that version of the band no longer exists. So initially I was thinking like, oh, I want like 1973 Stevie Wonder to be like during the day. Like that'd be great dance music during the day. And then I want to have Radiohead do, like, their Bonneroo set from 2006, you know, before In Rainbows came out. And, you know, when all those songs were, no one knew what those songs were, and they all sounded amazing. And then at night, I want to hear, like, the 1973, Grateful Dead, do Dark Star for, you know, 45 minutes. Like, that'd be amazing.

And I was looking at my lineup, and I realized, like, okay, this is like a, you know, it's just like a bunch of three-course meals on this lineup. It's like, it's too much. I'd want to see one of these bands by themselves. But it's like if I saw them back to back, like if I saw Stevie Wonder play like a 5 o'clock set or a 7 o'clock set, I'm done after that. Like I'm exhausted.

I don't want to hear any more music. So I was like, this is too much. It's too meaty. So then I reconceptualized it. And I was thinking about how we often talk about how our favorite festivals are like the local regional festivals because it's packed with people that you would never think to go see, but if you're at a festival and you're having a beer and this person is suddenly

on stage, it would be like a lot of fun. So I was thinking, okay, I should program that kind of festival. So as my mellow mood setter, I have the Bodeens. Okay, finish whatever bottle of whatever you have. That is like peak indie cast. I have the Bodeens because they're the ultimate Wisconsin festival band. You know, they played every county festival known to man. So they're my first band. My second band, Huey Lewis in the News, because if I'm at a festival and it's 3 o'clock and I'm like, should I start drinking yet? And then just a pure 80s nostalgia act comes on stage. I'm like, yes, I want to have a beer right now. I didn't know I needed Huey Lewis in the news, but like now they're on stage. It's great. The next act,

I have DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince coming out. Will Smith come back? Will Smith come the redemption tour because I felt like in this slot I wanted like some nostalgia rap act to come out and originally I was thinking Kulio would be in this slot you know Kulio comes out

does Fantastic Voyage One two three four Gangsters Paradise and then he's kind of running out of songs for me after that and I thought why do I have to bring in Silo too like do a silo like do I wish I was a little bit taller

things like that's That's kilo. Seelow is the guy who's like from Goody Mob who's oh that's right Who's sort of kind of canceled. Right, right, right. See, yeah, the Narls Barkley is Seelow.

Yes. That's Ski-Lo. Sorry, shout out to Silo and Ski-Lo. But then I was like, no, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, they could play a great 45-minute set. Will Smith, Redemption Tour. So he's on my festival lineup. The sunset, Bill, and by this point I've had maybe two or three beers,

getting a little warmed up and buzzed. Def Leopard comes out and plays hysteria. Yes. In its entirety at sunset. It's great. I'm singing along to every song. Then as the headliner, I have, and this is the only sort of, like, these are all like modern day, too.

Like, I'm not going to put them in any eras. I want the old versions of all these bands. The headliner, I'm going to do a specific era for it. I'm going to say mid-80s Phil Collins comes out. Just does a, maybe some members of Genesis are there, too. So it's like mooted Phil Collins with, you know, wearing the suit coat with the sleeves pushed up, you know, just classic Phil Collins, doing like a mid-80s set. But then, and this is where it gets a little funky, I'm going to have the 90s bone thugs and harmony come out because they sample Take Me Home. Yes, they did.

So they're going to do like a Take Me Home sort of like mashup with Bone Thugs and Harmony. That's going to be like the grand finale of the show. And I'm like, again, this is, it's not a bunch of three-course meals like my original lineup was. This is all small plates. But it's all music that I, like, this would be like the ultimate, like if I was at the Beale Street Festival in Memphis. Like, this would be the ultimate lineup for that. So I think that's where I'm at with music festivals right now. What I love about this festival more so than like my ideas or like the ones about like getting like fur release, you know, in 2020.

Is that, you know, okay, like Phil Collins, I think he's not in great help. these days. Right, exactly. This is all kind of sort of doable. Right, exactly. Yeah, like, or if like you were to somehow like smash together Beal Street and like, you know, whatever that festival is in like Delaware and Caboo in San Diego, you could kind of sort of cobble this together.

Like this could happen. And I would be so stoked for it. And secondly, like, hey, we would get to do an Indy Rock field, Indycats field trip. Yeah, that'd be good. I was also thinking too, you know, about how like in the 60s,

they would do these radio festivals, like where bands would play for 10 minutes. They would just play their hits and they'd be off. So you'd have a bill where it would be like the Who and the Supremes and, you know, four or five other bands and they would just play for 10 minutes like five times a day. And maybe you could do something like that with,

you know, sort of Otse-era indie bands that had like one hit. Like you have the rapture come out and they do House of Jealous Lovers. And then you have, have, you know, Black Party, they're going to do helicopter and maybe some other songs. And you could have that, like, as the headliner, where it's just, it's like a mega mix of all these, they come up for one song or two songs and then they're off. Like, I mean, that's getting really granular with this scenario, but something like that

could be, since we're in the realm of pure fantasy here, you know, if you could make that happen, I think they're pretty amazing. You're sort of kind of talking about that just like, have. festival as well. But it'd be like that, like, on speed, because they're not doing a whole set. They're doing, like, one song. So you play your one song, and then you're off, and then, like, the next

band comes on, and you're doing, like, your one or two songs that people want to hear. And MGMT, like, will refuse to play kids, like, or electric feel. Like, that would be, that's what I want to see. Right. Yeah, exactly. It wouldn't be respecting because, like, a band, like, MGMT,

obviously people who like that band, they, like, congratulate. They like other albums that they've done, but we're just going for the pure middle-of-the-road people that only know the hits. So it's like, we're disrespecting you. We're going to make you just play your one or two songs, like in just a mega-mix here.

And maybe there's like 15 bands, like in one headlining set. You know, because each band just gets one song. You know, that would be amazing. But that would be like a really long episode, probably, of that podcast. So maybe that wouldn't work But I don't know Again if you want to get really granular with this

I think you could do something like that Like you'd have Vampire Weekend on But they only do A Punk You know Like we're gonna ignore the rest You know we're gonna treat them like a one hit wonder Even though they're not But yeah that's like kind of like I imagine

Like Elon Musk's next thing It's like how much can I pay Vampire Weekend or like Phoenix Or you know any band of that ill or like tame and paula to play just you know what would be their

tame and Paula's biggest song either way like I think they have actual hits now but like what would it take the less I know the better yeah although if you really want to annoy Kevin Parker you'd make him play elephant

yeah like I dropped off with you after lonerism I'm gonna pay you 10 million dollars just to play elephant yeah that that itself could be an entire episode. Like, what kind of money would we pay for each artist,

like for radio had to play creep. For, yeah, for Vampire Weekend to play A-Punk, for MGMT to play kids. Like, for Flaming Lifts to play, we, she don't use jelly. Oh, my gosh. This is so much of a better festival than the one I came up with.

Yeah, exactly. I think, because money's no object here, either, apparently. Like, you just have a bottomless well of money. to pay people. Because, I mean, you see this online sometimes.

They're like, you know, make your own festival lineup, but they'll have, like, a dollar sign, like, with each subgroup of artists. So that limits it to some degree. But, like, yeah, there's no limit here. So you could just be like, yeah, I'm going to pay, uh, uh, I'm going to pay radio head $20 million to play creep.

Yeah. If the billionaire class is listening to Indycast, then I know there's got to be at least one. You know, that let's, let's make math. magic happen here? Well, I think that about does it for this episode. We're going to skip recommendation corner this week, but we'll head it up next week, which we're recording tomorrow because it's a banked episode.

So again, we have to worry about discourse happening when we're not around, but we'll probably be okay. I mean, we miss some things when you were gone, but some of those things were, like, fun to miss. Like, it was actually advantageous that we weren't around. So hopefully that will happen in our next week's episode as well. Thank you all for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations,

sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.