Indiecast - Mailbag: Whoacore, Non-Western Music Coverage, And More

Episode Date: January 7, 2022

And just like that, the holiday break is over and it’s already time to get back into reviewing albums and hashing out trends. Steve and Ian are both back from vacation and not wasting any time, diving right into the story of the Eve 6 guy arguing online with Steve Albini about Counting Crows, a topic that sounds like it was created in a lab specifically for Indiecast. They also chat about newly released music by Father John Misty and Radiohead side project The Smile, and the first performance in four years by emo legends The Hotelier.To kick off the new year, Steve and Ian are diving into the mailbag to answer some more questions from you, the Indiecast listener. Topics covered include: “whoacore,” non-western music coverage, and a true first for the show, a five-question “Remember Some Guys” pop quiz for Ian. What will he score? Listen to find out, and let’s all get excited for another great year of reviewing albums and hashing out trends.You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Up Rocks' indie mixtape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndieCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we respond to emails from you, the Indicast listener. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, the January 6th of rock critics, Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

We're just going right in. After three weeks of taking time off, we are tackling a subject which no one seems to know what tone to take. You know, the boys are back. The boys are back. Yeah, I guess, man. Yeah, because,

back in town. Yeah, I mean, like, is that, like, because people, like, are trying, like, people are in real time trying to figure out, like, can we be, like, kind of joke about this whole thing because, you know, they looked ridiculous or was this a real threat to, like, American democracy? We are still very much in this radioactive blast zone of the past year. And so I'll... We're recording this on the morning of January 6th, we should say,

because we're posting the day after. So we don't know what's going to be happening on January 6th, how people are going to be observing the one-year anniversary of this event. Hopefully everything will go okay. Yeah. Do you think Ariel Pink is going to come out of his, like, bunker and address the anniversary here. I mean, this was a big day for him. This is like the indie rock connection really to this story. Is Ariel Pink? Yeah, where were you the day you couldn't play round and

round at a party anymore? Yeah, I mean, the fact is, like, Ariel Pig tended to not come out of his bunker, like, for any reason over the past several years, which is kind of what got him in this mess in the first place. But we came out of his bunker to, uh, protest the, uh, the counting of electors. I mean, that was his thing, right? I mean, because I don't remember like it, I think that was the thing. You know, my question about the Ariel Pink story is, you know, because, because if you remember Tucker Carlson interviewed Ariel Pink. Yes, he did. And I wonder, like, how long did Tucker Carlson spite listen to Ariel Pink to own the libs. Like, did he make it to January 7th before he was like, screw this, I'm done?

Or do you think he went on a bender, like a deep dive into the catalog of Ariel Pink? And he's just a total head. All the paw track stuff that he did, you know. That's a, I do, like, I'm sure that they took like a cursory listen because, I mean, there are times when I have to like talk about an artist that I'm completely unfamiliar with. So I just kind of do the 20 minute, you know, shallow dive into the Apple albums essential. But I'm going to guess probably at least half of before today, maybe a little bit of mature themes. Or they just have like an intert.

Like I guarantee like Fox News does have like some like Columbia grad who is just kind of like faking their way through right wing media to get like a couple of a couple of jobs on the resume before they like try to get an NPR or whatever. So I think that Tucker Carlson had to come at least somewhat prepared. Do you, have you noticed that Kennedy, the former MTV Vijay, who I think she hosted alternative nation or 120 minutes, at least occasionally back in the day. She had a rocket from the crypt tattoo back in the day. Back when San Diego Legends Rocket from the Crypt had a thing where if you got a tattoo, you can get into any of their shows free for the rest of your life. She had one.

But anyway, she's a Fox News host now. I think she was a Republican back in the day. So she's always been conservative, but the MTV to Fox News pipeline concludes her. And also, Rachel from the San Francisco season of the real world, her husband, Sean Duffy is like a Republican senator from Wisconsin or represented. I don't know if you're still in office or not. But anyway, Rachel from the real world, she's been on Fox News. Wow. I don't know if there's any other examples.

I want to ask quick, like, how was your vacation? Like you said, we've been gone for three weeks. Did you have a good holiday break? Yeah, had a good holiday break. and now I'm looking at these mailbag questions and feeling like, you know, like our listeners have this Indiecast thing down better than we do. Like they've been practicing over there.

It's like when the fan fiction becomes better than like the source material. Like this is us now, man. Our reader, yeah, I'm excited to get to our mailbag because our readers are like writers for this show now. Like they are giving us incredible content that we can just lay back on our piles of indie rock money. and not do any work because the readers are doing all the work for us. By the way, I also had a good vacation.

You didn't ask me how my vacation was. Yeah, because I kind of don't care. Okay, I'm just going to assume that you care. I do. One thing, you know, I don't think we missed a ton of news while we were gone, but, like, one story I did want to revisit. I don't know if you saw this. Steve Albini and the guy from Eve 6 had an online argument about counting crows over, like,

New Year's weekend. Did you see this? You know what? Like maybe I had a better vacation than you did because I did not see that. I saw it after the fact. I saw it a few days later. You know, I'm on various,

you know, like when you tweet a lot about a certain artist, you'll get more tweets. Yeah, for that band. So I've tweeted a lot about counting crows. So I think I'm like on the counting crows, you know,

pulse here. So I get all counting crows news. And so I saw this a couple days after the fact. that the E.6 guy, he was defending counting crows, and Steve Albini, of course, was ripping counting crows, as you would expect. I think he called them music for wine drunk prepees, was one quote. A very Steve Albini, like, quote. And I don't even know how this got started.

I don't know if, like, the EVE six guy said something about counting crows and Steve Albini responded or if it was the other way around. Of course, I am a huge cunning Krioz fan, but I will defend Steve Albini's right to criticize them because he is a musical legend. And he's a legend, of course, because he produced Razor Blade suitcase. Drums on swallowed. Oh, God, man. That's why you get Steve Albu. That's why you go to electric audio.

Yeah, and he's done other things too, I think. I'll have to look him up on Wikipedia. I know that he produced Razorblade Suitcase. I think when he dies, that'll be the first thing in his obituary. Steve Albini, comma, the producer of 1996's Razorblade suitcase, has died today. And he was also in some bands and produced other records. But I just felt like this is a sign that we've been gone for too long when Steve Albini and the EF6 guy are really doing the things that we should be doing. I know.

Also, I love the fact that we've been talking about this tweet for, you know, know a minute or two and not once did we consider the possibility that eif six guy has an actual name like i know what it is and i refuse to use it just because i mean i've six i know what it is too yeah it's funnier though to call me of six guys absolutely and i mean i just love the fact that like i i don't know what your first experience is we're like talking to i mean you've been interviewing people for a long time so uh you're probably never and haven't been stars struck in a while. But like, Eve 6 guy, I remember him saying that Inside Out was like kind of his attempt to make a jawbreaker song, which leads me to believe that he's a huge Steve Albini fan,

probably fantasized about having Steve Albini produced an Eve 6 album. And here he is 25 years later and finally gets to interact with Steve Albini and it's an argument over counting crows. I mean, this is like kind of a never meet your heroes sort of lesson perhaps. And also, I'm a bit, like, I will defend counting crows. Like, yeah, wine, drunk, preppy, that is kind of me. Like, I mean, when counting crows were at their peak. So, yeah, I'm just going to, I'm going to own that. Well, and I'll just say that whenever I drink wine, I usually want to put on

Wizard Blades soupies. So, you know, that's like my go-to wine record. So, you know, Steve Albini, you got to watch yourself there a little bit. Can I tell you my quick Steve Albini story? I've never interacted with him. I've never interviewed him or anything, but I wrote a column for the AV club many, many years ago

that ended up being conversation fodder on the message board for electrical audio. And Steve Albini opined on my column, and he called me, quote, a date raping Bush voting bro. Wow. Yeah, which

I don't know where that came from because there was nothing about Bush or anything like that in my well maybe he thought like Bush voting like maybe he meant the band Bush and not George W. Bush in which case he would be correct and I think that we would have common ground

on there because we're both Bush supporters in that regard but yeah he didn't like my I don't remember what column it was but he didn't like it I love the fact that you can't remember what column it was just that you know it's just that Steve Albini was pissed about I mean that is like that is a classic Steve Albini story and know that

like Steve is trying to or has like tried to reckon with his pass as like the original edge lord pre-Twitter but I mean that is that's gonna be forever

a kind of classic story something that has nothing to do with him that he just feels the need to interject himself into and yeah David and also like describing people in these like reductive terms that really have nothing to do with the task at hand

it's the same thing like how you describe you're attacking a band like counting crows by classifying their fans as this archetype that you don't like. You're basically just saying, I mean, because like a wine drinking or wine drunk preppy, it's a nicer way of saying a date raping Bush voter bro, you know, which is what he said to me. The guy who made a band called Rape Man, you know, all of a sudden has like big opinions about this. Do we want to do a shout out quick to like the, because we both had positive music news this week. things that we were excited about. Of course, for me, Father John Misty, new single.

Yep. Sounds very swanky, very kind of like mid-20th century croonery type music. I really like it. It was a beautiful song, excited for the new record. There's also that band The Smile. I don't know if you're interested in this at all, but that's the side project for Tom York and Johnny Greenwood and the drummer from Sons of Kemet.

I can't remember the drummer's name. but he's a great drummer. And the song is like pretty rockin. It's like the most rocking music to come out of any kind of radio head project in 15 to 20 years. Yeah. So that was good for me. And then for you, those like big hardcore and emo news. Yeah, Vane.fm.

Oh, man. That is like, so they used to be called Vane. Now this is, but in 2018, they made a record called Error Zone, which began with the, Amen breakbeat. And they're back now. They're going to be touring with Tushay Amore. They're seeming like they're going to be one of those bands on the Code Orange trajectory where they start playing like festivals headlined by like Corn and Metallica and maybe get like a WWE theme.

And, you know, turn style obviously broke it wide open for bands like this. So yeah, no skipping leg day in 2022. I saw the video. for their single. Yeah. And like there's like this like dismembered head. It's jumping out of a bed. Yeah.

It's a very unsettling video. Yeah. Total AJ soprano t-shirt. They are leaning into it. God bless them. It's like a bloody. It's like a head with like a bloody neck and it's just like jumping out of like a bed sheet. Yes.

At you. Yeah. They, they are owning the new metal. Like people are like trying to say. It's crazy. Yeah. Oh, hardcore band vain. No.

Their new metal. Include the umla. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Also, during the vacation, one of my most memorable moments was watching a laggy, sort of glitchy, live stream of the hotel year playing their first show in what had to be at least four years. It was the counterintuitive records holiday showcase. This is great. It was like, Oso, Oso played, Illuminati Hotties played. Roswell Kid played.

I mean, if there was any, if there was any reason for it. for me to ever hop a plane and head to Boston in the middle of December, that would have been it. Look, as much of a hotel year fan as I am, they are kind of a hit or miss live band in their day. They sounded great at this show. They, the crowd was super into it. They were inspired. They played a really awesome set. And, you know, I don't necessarily think that they need to be going on tour, you know, right now or whatever.

I think if they do, it'll be they'll hold out for like the 10 year anniversary of Home Like No Place. And, um, but still, it just felt nice to see like, oh yeah, they still really enjoy playing music, you know, maybe Christian, we, we've, we've, we've, uh, we've covered the two biggest, uh, poker players in indie rock, Steve Albini and Christian Holden. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Did they play any new songs? No.

Oh, they're, they're, I don't think they'll ever make a record again. which is fine by me but yeah we'll see no new music no covers just playing the classics but they did play one song

off their first record which is you know that's a deep cut or two but not nothing new well let's not forget that they could have played

your wedding they offered after the fact so you know it could have been this could have been the second gig after that one let's get to our mailbag

because as we have alluded to We have incredible questions this week. We haven't done a mailbag in like probably a month. Oh, yeah. Because we had a couple episodes, I feel like, where we didn't do a mailbag because we had just too much stuff to talk about. So we're catching up. We're emptying out some of the mailbag here in this episode.

And this first question, you and I both agree, this is the best question we've ever got. It's unbelievable. And it comes from Alistair and Denver. He writes, Hi, Stephen. I've been listening since Celebration Rock Days and always appreciate you and Ian's due diligence when it comes to remembering some guys. So let's quiz him.

Below are some trivia questions to be read at Ian. It'd be an honor to stump Ian on some profoundly useless knowledge I have acquired over the years. And yeah, he wrote a quiz. This is a five-question quiz. Incredible questions. These are incredible. And you swore to me that you did not look at the answers. No, I saw that there was an answer key, and like the moment that happened, I just skip past it.

Like, I swear, like, I swear to God, I don't know the answer to any of these off the top. So let's... Okay, so we have competitive integrity in this quiz. Ian has not cheated. So let's get to it. Question number one. Which pitchfork best new music band did Bruce Willis cite as one of his first. favorite new bands in a 2007 press conference.

A. A place to bury strangers. B. Black Lips. C. Deer Hunter. D. Architecture in Helsinki. Now before you, I'm just wondering, do you know the answer to this or will you be deducing it? I absolutely do not know. Like, I don't know the answer to any of these. I will say it's probably not architecture in Helsinki because they were 2005-ish sort of band. And it's 2007, so, but all three of the first, the first three bands, they're all eligible for it. I know cryptograms came out in 2007, the place very strangers, self-titled. So Bruce Willis, actor, kind of a dirt bag, sort of macho guy.

If it was Christopher Maltesanti, I would say a place to very strangers because they have them more of a shoegazy sort of thing. black lips and you know they're kind of quasi-cance or hard-canceled now I think that sort of band would appeal to an actor who's trying to look cool so I'm going to say black lips so I feel like you overthought this because you were you were trying to you were going with like a best new music in 2007 not taking to account that Bruce Willis is probably not up on the most up-to-date best new music's that he'd be a little bit behind the answer is D architecture and how

Helsinki. Oh, my God. Yes. So, yeah, because Bruce Willis, he's not reading it every day. He probably has an assistant who is compiling, you know, playlist or something. And this was from a couple years ago, so he's a little bit behind. That's like the most, like, I can't picture like Bruce Willis. Brut, like, the guy, he's like made like some bluesy-ass rock on his own, right? Oh, yeah.

Okay, so architecture in Helsinki is like the exact, well, I don't know, maybe. He just wants to, you know, counteract the music he makes on his own. He's like, he calls himself like Bruno or something like that, right? Well, that was in the 80s. And I'm sure, I mean, maybe he subsequently heard black lips and got into their, you know, subversive blues rock stylings. But I think my theory is that maybe his daughter was into this band. Yeah. Yeah, rumor was into the band.

She played it around him. He's like, oh, that's pretty good. And he wanted to, like, ingratiate himself. Yeah, he's ingratiating himself. to his daughter by co-sending on something that she liked. That's my theory on that. Or he's just a hardcore architecture and Helsinki fan. He could be that too. So, okay, so Ian got that one wrong. So you've stumped him on the first one, Alistair. Number two, which one of these was not an item on Denny's 2009 All-Nighter menu featuring various pop punk and alt-rock artists of the time?

I don't remember this at all. I don't remember Denny's having a indie rock menu. I vaguely remember this. Alastair's going deep here. This is like entry into Harvard type test. You know, like if you ace this, you're going to Harvard Law School. A, hubis stanks, hobo burrito. Hobo burrito?

It's a hoo burrito, I believe. It's a who burrito. B, dashboard confessionals, acoustic smoke chicken cassididia. C. Good Charlotte's Band of Burritos Or D. Taking Back Sundays, Taking Back Bacon Burger Fries. I'm going to go with, okay, so 2000, like, I would say that taking back Sunday is the least popular. Yeah, I would say like they're the least popular of this group. And if I'm thinking about like what would be on Alt Rock Radio, Hubastank definitely would be.

good Charlotte would be in 2009. Dashboard, I think, possibly. Taking back Sunday had kind of gone a little bit on hiatus during that time. So I'm going to say D. You're saying D. See, I said D too. The answer is B. Dashboard Confessionals, Acoustic Smoke Chicken Cases.

Okay, first off, like, I got to just, I got to give props to Alastair because, like, the wrong answer, he had to come up with that one himself. So, I mean... That's a great, like, fake. Yeah, that's a great, deep fake. Good, man. Alistair, you're going to start your own podcast, man. You're killing it here.

So, Ian's 0 for two for the record here. So you got to, like, run the table from here on out to not go below the Mendoza line on this test. So a lot of pressure on Ian right now. Which of these bands was featured in... An Insight Gaming Magazine article from the 90s where bands went head to head in a racing game. Oh my God. Print media is dead, man.

We are long past the golden age. He's going into the Insight Gaming Magazine archives for this one. So which of these bands went head to head in a racing game? Blink 182, A, B, filter, C, 311, D, all of the above. but also Bush. Another Bush reference. I got to go with I got to go with D.

Like I've got to go with D only because I hope that's the one that's true. So you're saying blink 182, filter 311 and Bush, we're all in this article. Yes. From Inside Gaming Magazine.

And you are correct. Fuck yeah. It is all of them. So Ian is on the board. I can't wait. One for three. Hold on. Like I just, now, now I got to find this magazine to, like, to try to figure out, like,

whether they got all the band members to do it. Because you can, I, I just want to imagine, like, if it was Mario Kart or Grand Turismo, like, Mark Hoppice and Gavin Rossdale going head to head or whether it was, like, the basis from Bush and, like, Travis Barker. Yeah, I was going to, yeah, I'm guessing that I would, I could see, like, Robert Patrick doing it. Yeah, definitely. from filter, but Gavin Rostell, I don't think, would be doing it. I think it'd be like the bald guy, the guitar player.

I don't know his name. The bald guy. One of the other guys in Bush. Yeah. I think any one of the guys in Blinkgo-1802 would have done this. I could see anyone else doing it. They play video games. So, I don't know.

We need a follow up to that one, Alistar. If you can let us know which members played in this magazine article. Number four, another magazine article question. In a Rolling Stone article, Modest Mousse's Isaac Brock listed which of these bands in his top five albums of the 2000s. A, Kings of Leon.

B. Casabian. C. She wants revenge. D. All the above. Oh, God. It can't be D. I want so badly for it to be D because that would mean that like 60% of

like Isaac Brock's top albums of the 2000s were these just trashed rock bands like granted like Casabian like I know they're canceled now but like they had a couple What are they canceled? I didn't know Cassabian's canceled? I'm pretty sure they're canceled. For what? What happened? I think the lead singer got into some like real sketchy stuff like don't quote me on that but yeah

they they had a couple of good songs on like FIFA soundtracks. Like that's the kind of band they are. She wants revenge. That like I, that band sucks. Like I can't. I think, I think they played the

Just Like Heaven Festival in 2019 that I went to. It's like, yeah, this band was never good. Kings of Leon, I guarantee that they shared stages with Modest Mouse at that point because they were both like popular rock acts on the radio.

So I'm going to say A. It is A. Kings of Leon is. the answer. You know, look, depending on the record, I don't think it's that bad of a call by Isaac Brock, but, you know, it's definitely the least offensive out of any of these choices. Although, if he had picked the She Wants Revenge record, which I believe was a self-titled record, I don't know if they have more than one record.

I only know that self-titled one. That would have been funny, though. I'm with you. I wish it was all the above, but yeah, it's just Kings of Leon. last question. So you're two out of four. You're bad in 500 right now. So Ian's making a comeback here. This last one will determine whether you had more correct or more incorrect in this quiz. In a 2003 pitchfork article, Death Cab for Cudies Ben Gibbard ranked his favorite songs by this artist. A, Pearl Jam, B, Fugazi, C, Howl and Oates, D, share.

I definitely know this one because I remember, like, you asked me about like a pitchfork article in 2003. I'm going to know the answer. I'm just kind of, I'm just kind of happy that they got Ben Gibber to do an interview because I'm pretty, I remember that they were not particularly kind to transatlanticism. The answer is hollow notes. Yes, you are correct. As soon as I saw 2003 pitchfork article, I'm like, this is money in the bank. Ian is going to get this one right. So three out of five for Ian.

Good comeback by you, by the way. You got in a hole early on. I think the question's got a little bit easier towards the end. Oh, did it? Rain on my parade, why don't you? I'm just saying, you know, the pitchfork, that's a little bit easier than citing Insight magazine. Which I didn't know was real.

So. But he provided links. He provided links to all of these. So this has all been verified. So yeah, great question, Alistair. That was amazing. Please, if anyone has any other quizzes like that, send them in. Yeah.

That was a lot of fun. Let's get to our next question. All right. It's kind of act climatic after that question. I know, right? Look, if we ever have any weeks where there's just not a lot happening, like we've got our mailbags, we've got our Indycast Hall of Fame, next time we got to like call up

Alster it's like man we need a quiz and you know I should have said this at the beginning that like people at home you should have like paused your podcast so you could answer it yourself before hearing the answer but yeah we had to have some sort of

trivia like Indycast trivia tournament or something looking forward just throwing that out there and it could be sourced from our readers you should send us in trivia things and I don't know maybe we can figure something like that Out. Anyway, let's get to our second question. Do you want to read this one? Yes, I do, because man, I love this one. So,

Hey, Steve and Ian, this one addresses both of us, which is nice. Tyler from Philadelphia here. I immediately think of like the 15 people from Philadelphia in indie bands I know who are named Tyler. Big fan and longtime reader of both your work was going back through old playlist and stumbled into a real remembering some guys moment. Do you remember in the early 2010s, which, yes, I do, when every band had around eight members and kind of sounded like local natives. This is a more niche version of blog rock or landfill indie that has to include xylophones, horns, and a solo tom drum on stage. Some examples include Hey Rosetta and freelance Wales. Hey Rosetta had an exclamation point. I've included a playlist below.

We'll post that on our Twitter, by the way. Yes. I was trying to come up a name with this moment of music. music, I thought Manor core based on Gorilla Manor would be fitting. Some friends suggested Woke Quay or Baroque Tweed. But just curious what you guys think about this era slash trend. I was thinking clarification that had to be post-arcade fire Decemberus but pre-Mumford luminaires. Not exactly a dig, but there are some bands and songs that would fit into this that I genuinely love, such as Los Campesinos and Fright and Rabbit, but some that seem totally hilarious

in hindsight. So let me know what you think. And also, we got to give a shout out to the Power Pop heads chat, Pee heads. Saying that out loud makes me feel like I have been played. That would be sick. So Steve, I know how I feel about it. This was very much in my wheelhouse. I don't know what your relationship with this style of music is. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I'm dying to hear. It's funny. And by the way, I feel like we should explain for the people who may not be total local natives heads, that guerrilla manner. That reference, that's a reference to their day. record for those of you who may not know that um you know i don't know if you saw this over the break there was a story in vox about uh cringe culture from the obama years basically pop culture that people really embraced during uh the obama administration that now seems embarrassing

and the writer talked about hamilton and parks and recreation and the harry potter books didn't mention any kind of music, but this email reminded me of that a little bit, just because this kind of music, it reminds me of particularly like the first term of the Obama years where you had this kind of

indie music that was vaguely hippie-ish, very uplifting, kind of quirky, as the listener said, lots of band members, very expansive sound. I don't know if this totally applies,

I don't really think of them as listening as sounding like local natives, but the first band I thought of when I read this was Edward Sharp in the Magnetic Zeros. Oh, yeah. Being a band that, like, I remember, because I was working as the city editor of the Milwaukee edition of the AV Club, like in this era, the late Otts and early 2010s, which, by the way, remember some all weeklies. We're remembering some old weeklies here, too. but I would review concerts a lot during this time and Edward Sharp was like a huge touring act

like they came to Milwaukee all the time and they were playing they started out playing like small clubs and like within like a year or two they were playing like a 3,000 seat theater in town and I remember they had that hit song Home around this time which was like in tons of commercials and movie trailers

and also coincidentally, do you remember that Philip Phillips song, Home? You know, Phillips from American Idol? Yeah, I mentioned that in the Foxing interview I did for Up Rocks, because, like, one of their songs kind of, like, I would hear that song in Spouse. I'm like, this is kind of a banger right here, and I look up the lyrics, like, oh, that's what Philip Phillips sounds like. Yeah, Phil Phillips, who was like a, his role model was obviously, like, Dave Matthews,

like he was a very Dave Matthews inspired artist, but his hit single home is kind of a rip-off of Edward Sharp's single home. Like they sound very similar, very kind of twinkly sounding songs with like the, like the, ah, like that kind of like backing vocal. So that's what I thought of when this came up.

And it, again, it was like very popular for about a three or four years span, but then it just seems like now that these bands have no footprint whatsoever. It's like, you know, like, Avatar was like a huge movie during this period. And, like, that has no footprint. Although, I guess there's going to be a sequel to it this year. Yeah. Also, there was an episode of how to with John Wilson where, like, there's a group of people who talk about they, they speak in the avatar language and talk about, like, how that movie, like, save their lives, more or less. So, yeah, it doesn't have a footprint in Twitter or, like, you know, the cool person discourse. But, you know, it does have an impact. But I get it.

Well, then that makes me think that there's maybe like a secret majority or a silent majority of Edward Sharp fans waiting for the Edward Sharp revival. Yeah. I think about like one thing that kind of goes unspoken with this style of music is that so much of it reminds me of living in Los Angeles from 2006 to let's say 2012. Also, it's kind of funny that, like, local natives are held up as the epitome of this because they themselves were somewhat, like, seen as, like, an amalgamation of, like, all these indie, like, trends from a few years prior, like, Rizley Bear or whatever. First off, like, local natives, great band. Like, I always want to put that out there.

Hummingbird, though, I think is their best song. But, yeah, this, it's, it's, it's, it's, this is like prime remembering some guys' territory because, unlike the landfill indie that this person mentions in the UK, like none of these bands got, with the exception of maybe like Edward Sharp, none of them got like super big to the point where they are just part of the culture just by nature of being played so much. And I'm looking at this playlist and the first thing that, you know, Tyler, your first mistake was not including Bishop Allen.

This to me epitomizes that kind of Obama era, Twinkly, quasi-twee sort of tail end of blog rock. They were a huge band of the Nick and Nora Infinite Playlist soundtrack. And fun fact, one of the guys from Bishop Allen, I think they went to Harvard. One of the guys co-founded OKCupid. So, I mean, we'll talk about being a legend in two. Yeah, legend in two games. Yeah, this style of music is super interesting to me because I think we see all trends eventually reemerge.

We're seeing that with like new metal. I think we're kind of maybe sort of kind of seeing the dance punk revival or maybe meet me in the bathroom stuff is starting to filter back in. I am trying to envision a world where this style of music and like let's be perfectly clear. this stuff was never ever ever seen as cool like i remember i'm looking at this playlist and like having flashbacks to writing like 3.5 and like 4.8 reviews at pitchfork for like freelance whales like this is the last style of music you could get a free shot at well because it was just i mean it's kind of filtered down from like arcade fire i feel like they are of course beginnings of this and you have decemberis and you know we in the letter writer referred to that and those were

critically acclaimed bands. But then, yeah, it filtered down to all these, this like subsequent generation of groups that really kind of turn that into a formula and they actually ended up having hits, which like Arcade Byer never had like a song as popular as home, the Edward Sharp song. I think the thing that would prevent this from becoming a trend is that I can't see a band in 2022 having like eight members or nine members. You know, like where you could afford to do that. Or like where that would just at all seem feasible to do. I have a hard time believing that that could happen.

Yeah. And I think that like what the kind of unspoken thing about like Obama cringe culture, particularly with this style of music, it is just like the most painfully white shit you can imagine. You know, Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zero's is like, particular. You just think of just like eight guys, like kind of Laurel Canyon. Like they're all sort of wearing these stupid ass hats, which, you know, I'll admit that was a thing in L.A. back in the time, back in the day. I can't act like I'm above it. Yeah. And this kind of like

optimism that just seems so, it could be great counter programming in 2020, but it just, I just don't know what sort of band might subject themselves to that. That being said, there is a new album that's coming out in about a month or two, I think, from a band called String Machine. I love this band. They're from Pittsburgh. There's like five or six or seven members. They play.

There are banjos in there. There are strings. It's a great record. and it also sort of kind of brings this sound back. So I'm very interested to see how that's received because they do see in position to be a breakout band in 2022. It's like sort of like an and-butt sort of thing. And they remind me not a little bit of like Anathalo.

Well, we'll see. I don't know. I would think it was, I would find it hilarious if this came back. So I'm cheering for it to happen because, you know, any chance, that we can any excuse that we'll have now to like write re-appraisals of some of these bands

Hey Marseys and Typhoon and said the whale Like Margo and the nuclear so-and-so's Low-key kind of an influential band Like you'll find a lot of like bands in that in that foxing sort of realm

like the more kind of like wimpier like emo like Margo and the nuclear so-and-so's Anathalo in important bands. Well, we'll see. We'll see what happens. I mean, this is an unpredictable era. So, why would we predict anything? Yeah, maybe, maybe like a Margo and nuclear so-and-so song will get, like, huge on TikTok, and then we'll be doing an entire episode dedicated to on a freezing Chicago street. And it will all end with Phillips being reappraised and getting like an HBO documentary.

We're already, we were so worried about being rusty, but it's very clear we're ahead of it. Let's get to our next question. This is from Jason in West Hartford, Connecticut. Jason writes, during this year-end list season, I feel like I've been noticing more coverage of non-Western sounding music, such as Aroo Atefap, I hope I pronounced that correctly, and I'm sure I didn't, and Mdu Mokdar. I was happy to see this, but then after doing some more research,

I noticed that Aroo Atfab lives in Brooklyn, and that Mdu Mokdar recently signed a Matador Records. As someone who knows very little about how music publications are run, this leaves a lot of questions floating around in my head. Aside from the fact that a lot of the publications we talk about seem to be based in the U.S. and UK, is there a reason why they don't seem to cover many non-Western artists? Do publications get paid by labels to cover or review their artists? Would Afrika Victim, which is the MDU Machdar record,

have been as a claim if it hadn't been released on Madador? Am I even asking the right questions? I'm curious what your guys' thoughts, insights are on this. Just want to say that I appreciate you guys and love listening to the show every week. Thank you, Jason from West Hartford. So, yeah, so Jason is wondering why, and this isn't just true. That's the deal. Yeah, it's not just year-endless, really.

It's just, I would say, music coverage in general doesn't cover much non-Western music. And he's even suggesting or he's asking, are our music publications on the take? Are we getting paid off just to cover American music or English-speaking music? I'll let you go first. How would you respond to this? Yeah, I mean, every now and again, we'll get like a question about conspiracy theorizing about backroom deal-making and like the Matador Bagman coming to, you know, uprocks with a, you know, with loot for us to cover man. I mean, I've come to love these sort of theorizing because, I mean, it makes our job sound way more interesting than it really is.

It sounds like, you know, there's much more danger and intrigue. When in reality, I mean, you kind of got, like, he kind of figured it out, which is that, I mean, Madador did not just pluck some guy out of West Africa and put him on the label. Like, you know, they've been making records for a while and they got discovered by Madador, which put them in front of. front of more eyes and ears. And that's what labels do, you know, and also, like, you know, that's also why artists might move to Brooklyn because you're closer to the center of media. And I don't, I mean, in the streaming internet age, you know, it shouldn't matter where you're from or, like, what label are you on? But, like, at the end of the day, there's just so much music out there that there has to, you know, publications just need to rely on some kind of filter,

like a trusted label, or, oh, I've seen this person it shows around Brooklyn, or I have context to which to put them. And to counteract the artist that they mentioned, you know, you can look at someone like Power Nul who was just like literally some anonymous guy in Seoul, Korea, making an album that sounds like it was, you know, made on a shitty laptop. And it gets a lot of hype simply because people on Rate Your Music found it. But yeah, I mean, I would love, I think there's this expectation that all publications need to cover all forms of music equally. And it's just not really realistic. And I mean, I could try to engage with, you know, Singaporean emo or like there's a lot going on in Asia.

But I just, you know, the lyrics, I don't, you know, I don't speak the language. I don't understand the context of it socially. And so it's just really harder for me to be an expert on this. So I look for it. Hopefully there are people who serve as guides, you know, like Keegan Bradford's Friendship International. Shout out to that. But yeah, I mean, we just kind of have to be, I suppose, realistic about it.

Yeah, I just want to say unequivocally that publications, as a rule, are not paid by labels to cover music. I just like want to say that because I actually feel like this is a common belief among a lot of readers that this is how it's determined what things are covered, that there's some money changing hands or some other thing that isn't based on why, you know, like some sort of editorial reason for covering something. So I just like want to say that that isn't the case. I'm sure there have been instances of that, but like that's not a common thing. I think the reason why this doesn't happen, and I think Ian you alluded to this, is that the expertise just isn't there.

There's not a lot of music writers that are just well-versed in this kind of music. And certainly, you know, if this is something you're interested in, in reading about, I can definitely see how that would be a negative thing for you. Because it sounds like you in particular, like you want to read about this kind of stuff, and you're not seeing it. I will say, however, that on balance, the majority of readers are not interested in it. And that's another factor here that comes into play that, you know, it's hard enough to get people to click on an article about an English-speaking act that they haven't heard of. But like, if you then add a language barrier to it, it makes it that much more difficult.

I also say that in the case of Mdu Mokdar, that along with being on Maddoor Records, the kind of music that he plays, is very approachable for Western listeners because he's basically playing guitar-heavy rock music. There's a lot of songs on his record that kind of sound like Zizi Top or Jimmy Hendrix or even like The Great Bill Dead. And a lot of people in America and Europe like that kind of music,

so it's easy to understand, which is why I'm sure he ended up on Medador Records because he's really not that different from a lot of other bands. that are on that label. But just to circle back to, you know, this belief, which, again, I think is pretty common that, like, music critics or journalists are being paid off

by labels to cover certain acts. I just feel like that overstates the influence that journalists have. And I'm always putting my place with this whenever I go to concerts with my good friend, who's a program director at a big rock station here in Minneapolis, the way that he is treated by labels is dramatically different from how journalists are treated. He gets to go backstage. They take him out to dinner.

They're buying him drinks. You know, I got to meet the edge because I was with him, you know, like backstage at a YouTube concert. Like, no one's taking me backstage to do that on my own, you know. Even in this time, like we're radio, like we feel like radio is diminished. Even now, like they, like labels look at them as being much more important than a journalist. So I don't even think that they would feel like that was money worth spending, even if that was something that we were doing. Yeah. So I just want to point that out because I think in our world that we all populate online, it's easy to think, oh, a review on this particular website, it's going to make all the difference in the world when, yeah, it might have some impact, but in the real world, you know,

know, like, things like radio, things that we might think are irrelevant, they still matter more in many cases than our little, you know, keyboard peckings on certain bands. Yeah. Yeah, music writers sometimes have hard enough, have enough trouble getting paid by, like, the publications. Like, they're definitely not getting that extra money from a label. Right. I don't know if it was a good thing that I just said that, like, we're irrelevant, basically. you know, but we're not totally irrelevant, but I'm just saying. Radical transparency on Indycast in 2022.

That's like our, we are just being completely open about the process. I'm just saying we're not money under the table relevant. You know, we're not that level. No. We're not that level relevant. Yeah, even if these, yeah, these labels don't have, like, they don't have like a slush fund to, you know, to pay off people like me, you know. Yeah. Unfortunately.

If anyone wants us, like Philip Phillips people, if you like want to pay us off so we can talk more about Philip Phillips. Yeah, I'm a cheap date when it comes to that sort of thing. The DMs are open. All right, last question here. And I feel like you need to read this one. Yeah, boy, reading my mind on this one. So Lewis from Chattanooga wants to tell us that he was wrong. watching, he was recently watching the season finale of Gossip Girl. I mean, thank you for letting

us know that. I'm guessing that's the new one, right? The HBO one? That's got to be. Yeah. So, I have a lot, I have surprisingly a lot to say about this show since the last indie cast. But, okay, so the characters were all in a quote, blue collar bar in the Hamptons, funny scenario, when one character told another character that he was going to put on their song. He proceeded to go to the Cox and put on the chain smokers coal plate collapse, something just like this. I wish that we could just like cut in that scene right now. I know. I've never seen this show, but now I'm going to watch this show just to see this scene.

This sounds incredible. Yeah, so everyone at the bar immediately stopped what they were doing and started dancing and singing along. The gossip girl characters and the blue collar workers alike. I was shocked. It was one of the most bizarre scenes I've ever seen in a TV show. Is this something that would happen in the real world? Sincerely, Lewis from Chattanooga,

asking the hard questions. So, this is interesting to me because I don't watch Gossip Girl, so I don't know the characters or, you know, if they're big music fans or not. But I'll just say that I'm always a fan of TV shows that give the characters, like a realistic sort of middling music taste, you know, where they're not like a connoisseur, but they're just like a regular person

and the kind of music that they would like. I can buy that like two people would love something just like this, because I think that song has been streamed like two billion times. So people obviously love that song. Like I get annoyed.

Like one thing I don't like about David Simon shows is that characters on his shows always have like great music taste. Like I saw this episode of The Wire where there was like a prison guard driving to work and he was listening to like this like vintage like R&B blues song from like the 50s. And I'm like, dude, this prison guard would either be listening to Sports Talk Radio or like just some crappy like light FM, you know, music that you like like good times great oldies type channel.

He's not listening to, you know, he's not digging into like the Allen Lomax archives to for songs to listen to on the way to work. That's why, you know, like when you watch Sopranos, I always appreciate that day. David Chase made Tony Supran. He likes Journey and Deep Purple and, you know, Dark Side of the Moon. New Jersey, King, King, shit. Yeah, exactly. It's, like, realistic to his music taste,

or a character like that. So, without knowing who these characters are, like, in a way, like, you know, to answer the question, yeah, I could buy that. Because, like, a lot of people love that song. Yeah. 1.7 billion streams. Jeez, Louise.

which is not the most popular chain smoker's song closer is that's got about that's got two billy in the bank my god yeah so um yeah over over the holidays um my wife uh engaged in a full on rewatch of gossip girl like like uh you know work slows down because of the holidays and covid so every time i would come home or you know like leave my office from writing gossip girl would be on And I think this really nicely doves tales with the Wocor, Manor core, manner core discussion, because, you know, this show is very much of that era. 2008, 2009. If you go back to the original, there's definitely some Rooney songs on there. Sea Wolf.

Like, if, yeah, if you're from L.A., you know about Seawolf. The Deadly Syndrome, the first band I ever reviewed at Pitchfork is on there. like real black crystal wolf kids hours. By the way, if you know who black crystal wolf kids are, they're still playing. They're an indie rock cover band. You should really look at their website. Yeah, but yeah, I do agree with you that in a lot of ways

there's like wishful thinking that goes on in TV shows, like where the show writers kind of want to project their tastes onto the people in it, which is how you end up. I just think of like that movie Booksmart where like teens in 2018 are like supposedly jamming out to LCD sound system. But yeah. And also I got to mention like the one time I sat down and like watched some of the show with her, there was a discussion about having a at a wedding a flash mob to Steely Dan. And then there for like a minute or so they just dunk on Steely. Steely Dan. Oh. It's like, yeah, like, who's going to listen to Steely Dan?

It's just music for 50-year-old dudes. It's like, wow, all right. Like, man, I miss where this became a hot take. But, I mean, as ridiculous as it is. Boo, gossip girl, boo. Yeah. You lost me. You lost me now.

I was on board with you, now you lost me. But I do think that, you know, even if this show very much is of its era, and I think that was kind of a problem with the reboot. I think it is so much more likely that a chain smoker's cold play song will bring the masses together than like what Lorelei or Rory might listen to. I assume, you know, they're kind of, uh, they kind of have like more of like a woe core, manner court sort of deal. I mean, if they played Rudy shaken, might that, might that work?

I mean, it would definitely get me on the dance floor more quickly than, uh, you know, the Colplay chain smoker's song. But, yeah, I mean... I don't think of, like, a better song for this environment, because apparently it's a blue-collar bar. Like, maybe it should have been, like... In the Hamptons. Maybe it should have been, like, a Bring Me the Horizon song.

Or, like, a five-finger death punch song. Like, that would have killed his blue-power bar, I bet. Not Kings O'Leon. You got to play Sex on Fire. Oh. I think that... Like, that is close enough to, like, kind of rolling stuff. own people, but still also very much like blue collar in presentation.

I think it had been funny if they would have been like, let's play our song and it's like avenge sevenfold, you know? It's just like this just butt rock song, just blaring out and like people are just getting up with the theory of a dead man. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. We need to like pivot to that. Like we need to start writing our own TV show where we project our desire to see like these, you

well-manacured, very verbose people, but, like, deep down inside, they're super into, like, the two new bands you get to hear on K-Rod. Yeah, exactly. There should just be, I think that would be a funny bit. Like, if you just showed clips from prestige shows and then you over, like, and they're listening to a song, like, Yellow Jackets. Like, I hear, like, Yellow Jackets is, like, the new sort of prestige show and, like, over the closing credits, it's just, yeah, it's like, shine down.

Like a Shinedown song just blasting. I think that'd be pretty funny. We've now reached the end of this episode of Indycast, and we will be back. We're not going to be three weeks off this time. No. We'll be back next week. We're ready to rock in 2022 with more news and reviews and hashing out trends.

That's right. So we'll see you then. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.