Indiecast - More Indiecast Hall Of Fame Albums, Plus: The Wonder Years

Episode Date: July 22, 2022

When legendary musicians are inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, they get a classy trophy, a star-studded ceremony, and honors at the official museum. But the Indiecast Hall Of Fame inductees get something even better: bragging rights. On this week's Indiecast episode, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen induct albums into Indiecast HOF in three categories: '90s, '00s, and 2010s (29:10).The indie news front was fairly quiet this week, other than popular podcasting and TV duo Desus And Mero announcing they're parting ways after what seemed to be tension and animosity (4:47). It now leaves Indiecast as the only pop culture podcasting duo left in the universe. Steven and Ian also share their thoughts about The Wonder Years' new music and dedicated fan base (17:31).In this week's Recommendation Corner (55:53), Ian gives props to Pool Kids, a Florida-based band that sounds like Paramore if Hayley Williams was obsessed with listening to Rush. Steven endorses the new album by John Moreland, whose ninth album Birds In The Ceiling is out now.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 98 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indie Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we induct four new albums into our Indycast Hall of Fame. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I'm about to break up with him over artistic differences. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? And by artistic differences, he means like the correct pronunciation of the word chugel and or Waxahatchie. Yeah, it's really come to a head here. And I really feel like we're going to have to establish separate endeavors at some point. So people who think it's pronounced Waxahachi can go to one podcast, and people who think it's Waxahatchie can go to the other podcast. Yeah, this is going to be sort of like a 50-cent like Kanye West sort of competition

to see who gets more followers just solely based on the pronunciation of Waxahatchie or any of these, any other, like, indie band that has, like, a debatable pronunciation, like, Dunyan or whatever, you know, they got a new album coming out. We're going to talk about Dunyan and, boy. Oh, yeah, let's talk about Dunyan. We can revive the old cranky indie fan conspiracy theory that Tame and Paula just jacked Dunian. Like, have you heard that conspiracy theory? I have heard.

What, is it a conspiracy theory if it's true? We know Kevin Parker was in the last, like, he was. just like me doing like a blog spot in 2005 listening to Todd that long and he's like you know it would really like I can just see my vision 10 years from now Coachella is going to sound like this except they sing in English well I think the first record inner speaker definitely owes a debt to Dunyan but then Kevin Parker discovered Michael Jackson and the rest was history you know then he started digging in the crates got his fingers dusty finding a copy of all the wall.

Well, yeah, you know, I think you could describe Tamanpala as Dunyan meets off the wall. I mean, and that was a very successful formula. Obviously, he had the great drum sounds and cool keyboard tones that you get from a Dunian record, but then, you know, you just put a really catchy song on top of it and you have a billion streams, baby. We should mention that our 100th episode is coming up very soon. 98th episode. I don't know if you knew this Ian, but we're only two episodes away from a major milestone

in Indycast history. And I don't know what we're going to do to celebrate it. I mean, I feel like I was caught off guard by this. I didn't realize that this was coming up. So normally, if we had our stuff together here, we would be planning for months a special gala episode to celebrate. 100 Epps, but I don't know what we're going to do. I feel like we're going to end up getting some veggie tray and throwing it on a table.

You know, that's all we're going to have. It's going to be really half-assed. I'm, you know, that's my fear. I mean, if it's got the little, like, the sweet bell peppers, like, I think that's, you know, good enough for me. As long as it isn't, like, just the carrot sticks and celery and ranch affair. I don't know. Maybe 100th episode is, like, the one where we finally have guests or, you know, uprocks

makes us a plaque. Like, is 100 episodes, the podcast version of, like, going platinum? Yeah, I mean, it's not really like a sign of success. It's just a sign that you've stuck around and you haven't broken up. So I don't know if it's going platinum as much as, I don't know what the equivalent would be. Like, we're like the journeyman rock band that somehow got to their, like, six or seventh record, even though they haven't ever sold that many albums. You know, we just keep going and it works.

But, you know, I think it is worth celebrating. because as we saw this week, partnerships in the podcasting world can be tenuous and they can break up, even if you are really successful. Especially if you're really successful. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing about success because, you know, one minute you're just recording a pod, it's dudes rock, it's just we're in it together. And then, you know, the guys with the cigars and the briefcases full of money, you know, the come in from Spotify or Stitcher or Audible or one of these other places.

And they just totally undermined podcast unity. And you end up with something like the DeSis and Mero situation this week where we have like a genuine breakup here. Very rare. Going on here. And look, I know there's a lot of fans out there who are heartbroken, you know, because they love Deasus and Mero as podcasters. They love them on Vice.

They loved them on Showtime. But I have to say, like, as a kind of impartial observer and as a lover of intra-band conflicts, because I do think of them as a band. They're not really a band, but I'm likening them to a band. It's kind of fun to have, like, a real breakup. You know, because nowadays, I feel like no one breaks up. It's always like, I'm going on hiatus or we're, you know, imicably parting ways, but it's always leaving the door open for a reunion.

And it seems like these guys, there's like genuine conflict here. Yeah, to the degree I followed it, there was like one very notable, one very notable piece of information that came out when they were like, you know, talking about it on Twitter. One of them said, you know, shout to like my staff. I think that was like something people keyed in on and look. I mean, this, it sort of reminds me most of all of like, you know, when Sonic Youth broke up because, you know, they're quintessentially New York. Everyone on my timeline loves them. And even if they were like the quintessential. oh my god like this they've taken this obscure art form to like incredible platforms they broke up

over like real mundane shit you know it seems like there was just creative differences money egos clashing whereas thurston more and kim gordon broke up because you know thurston more was sleeping around with his like biographer or something like that yeah that was a crazy time i think that was uh was that 2011 yeah it was about a decade it feels like about a decade ago and uh yeah you had people, I mean, that felt kind of sorted to me. Yes. When you start having, you know, I'm team Kim or I'm, I don't think anyone was team Thurston really at that moment of time. But, you know, you get into people's marriage. I mean, who knows what was going on behind closed doors there. I, you know, I don't really want to

parse that too much. I am more of a fan of the breakup, like you were saying, where it's like a Beatle situation. Like, oh, this guy's getting too many songs on the record. This guy's getting too much credit, you know, I'm feeling, uh, you know, disrespected. That seems like that's more of what the situation is in Deeses and Merrow. I mean, from what I've seen, it seems like Dees is like into traveling. He's going all around the world. It seems like he's interested in acting. And maybe Mero was more about hosting a show and holding down the fort.

And there's also like this Anna Kendrick thing element. Are you familiar with the, Anna Kendrick. Would anything you tell me about this, I will believe. I have no clue where you're about to take this. I mean, I read like an article about this to keep me abreast. Because again, I wrote a book about rivalries. I am addicted to pop culture, drama, you know, intra-band, intra-duo-conflict.

I'm like a moth to aflame with this stuff. So, you know, I like Jesus and Meryl. I wasn't like a super fan, but I liked the show. But I'm more interested in this breakup, probably, than I was even in what they did together. But apparently, there's speculation that Deezis is in some kind of relationship with Anna Kendrick, who I thought was dating Bill Hader, but I guess they broke up. Did you know Anna Kendrick and Bill Hater were dating for a long time? I do not.

This is all. This is new information. We are hatching out trends outside of my typical scope. we are so far astray from Indy Rock right now they're like the part of our listenership that gets angry about us talking about like the

1975 too much and not enough about you know Dune and hardcore indie rock they're just blowing a stat they probably have turned this off by now but yeah apparently you know people are calling her like the Yoko Ono of Deezesesan Mara

I don't know I have no opinion on that that seems and like look Yoko Ono she didn't break up the Beatles I love Yoko Ono's music. I'm not taking a shot at Yoko Ono. I'm just saying what other people were saying. But yeah, I don't know. It's interesting.

I like seeing a real breakup. You know, I feel like breakups now, they're so sort of like HR managed. You know, no one, like, what was like the last kind of like messy breakup? Was it Sonic Youth? I mean, at that big of a level, like, I mean, that was a breakup as opposed to a cancellation. So we have to like factor that in there as well. But yeah, I mean, like, what you're doing, what I'm hearing from you is just manifesting your next book, which is just all about breakups of, like, podcasting duos. You have, like, moved on from, like, rivalries, like, with between bands, like, you know, Black Keys and Jack White to, like, the simmering tension that is inevitable with any duo.

But, you know, that's never going to happen to us, though. Like, we... That's true. Because, again, like, we're still in the van. we're still playing clubs like we're like we're the working class podcasters we're not letting success get to our head we're keeping it real

keeping it on the ground and that's going to save us I think that being said I I think you being on the Paul Finebaum show like I saw that and I swear to God like I think that's going to like how funny would that be if that were the tipping

point but it just might because I mean I started out like my humble origins my true DIY days started when I took my first paid writing job at AOL Fan House. Like shout to anyone who remembers that. Shout Jamie Matrum gave me my first job. I wrote about UVA football. Like I wrote about ACC football.

My first viral blog spot post was comparing college football programs, different rappers. And it's like that would be like going on Paul Feibom show to talk anything. Like, yeah, I figured if anyone on any cast would be doing that, it would be me. but you have poll in the SEC, apparently. Yeah, you know, this is, I love that you were excited that I went on the Paul Feinbaum show. Like, you were, like, I think even more pumped than me. And I have to say, so I've been on his show twice. And this most recent time I was on, it was to promote the pre-sale of my new book, Long Road, Pearl Jam,

and the soundtrack of a generation, due in store, September. 27th. A quick plug there. And he wasn't on. It was a guest host. And it actually was probably better because the guest host was like around my age and he had, he actually knew like what I was writing about. I don't think Paul Feinbaum would have really known. I mean, the reason why I've been on the show is that there's a producer at the show who likes my books and he's been very kind at offering these opportunities to be on the show. So like I, he first reached out to me a few years ago.

And I think we talked about Twilight of the Gods then, even though that book had been out for a while. But talking about classic rock, that was more in Feinbaum's wheelhouse. I think in the summertime, you know, they have more time to talk about pop culture stuff. Like, my book's not coming out until September. And the producer was like, you know, we're going to be deep into college football by then. So I don't think that would really work. But if you want to come on now, that would be great. And I was like, yeah, definitely.

And I have to say, like, you know, when it comes to. the book promotion. I love going on sports talk radio. I love going on sports podcasts. Because it's just a bigger audience than talking to like a music podcast or publication,

even though I love talking to those places too. But you really do realize when you go on a show like that how it's kind of like when comedians would go on Johnny Carson. Like the family of the comedian could now feel like this person has a real job. Like when I went on Paul Feinbaum, I had so many people reach out to me who are in my life who know what I do for a living, but they don't really get it.

And they're like, oh, I get it now. Like you're like a music writer. Like it was like legitimizing for like uncles of mine or, you know, cousins of mine when I was on Paul Feinbaum. You know what that thing was for me when I interviewed Gene Simmons about his restaurant for Rolling Stone. dot com. This is what Gene Simmons said. Like, it's like, hey, this is Ian Cohen from Rolling Stone. And Gene Simmons says, without a fucking beat,

rollingstone.com. It was like the, it was the worst insult I will probably ever get in my life. Man, I got to tip my cap to Gene Simmons on that one. That's like a pretty sly slam there, which was totally unnecessary. Like, why did he have to take a shot at you? Because it was Rolling Stone.

Like, I mean, like, They're beef with kiss or, no, it's more like a one-sided kiss beefing with Rolling Stone. I also think there was like a lawsuit pending about Gene Simmons's restaurant, stealing Rolling Stone's font or something. Like, I didn't know this. We could talk about this for an entire podcast. That was like one of the weirdest experiences I've ever had in my life. But this was 2012. Like I looked back on that article and it presaged the presidency of Donald Trump so absolutely.

accurately that I feel, I just feel dirty, although it's a really funny fucking story. So you interviewed Gene Simmons. I once interviewed Paul Stanley. So like we, we have, between us, we have the power center of kiss represented on this show. I interviewed Paul Stanley in 2006 for his solo record, Live to Win. Is the name of his solo record. That is such a great like Kiss solo album title in 2006 live to win it's true

I can picture the cover I can picture the guitar world article oh yeah it's great it was great he was hilarious too I kind of was disappointed that he didn't talk the way he does on Kiss Alive where I'd be like

hi Steve do you like gin you know like that kind of thing I was hoping for that, but he was much more restrained and everything. It's funny with those two because I feel like Stanley is like pretty woke now. Like he's pretty progressive on Twitter. Whereas Gene Simmons is not.

Absolutely not. No. As a matter of fact, that whole restaurant was like a tribute to the troops. Like we all had to sing. I swear to God, it was either the national anthem or God bless America. But before we sat down to eat, like they played something on the screen. and like you were at a football game. And it was also like, I think, opening near the airport in L.A.,

which is a little bit more military base. But yeah, it was like, like I was saying, it was like you could see Donald Trump's future at that restaurant. And, I mean, Gene Simmons, like, what did he do to get out of Vietnam War? I mean, you know he was in that generation to get drafted. And I'm sure he pulled some shenanigans to get out of that. I'm not casting a Spurs. I could be totally wrong.

Maybe there was a legitimate excuse. I'm pretty sure he didn't go to Vietnam, though. I dig into the Wikipedia here, but I'm like 99% sure that Gene Simmons did not fight in Vietnam. This could be a topic for another episode. Yeah, this is our 100th episode. Like, we're just going into, like, why to Kiss get out of the Vietnam War? I think this is, like, it's, like, a completely non-meat episode. Like, we're just going to, like, pick some random shit like that.

just see if we can go off for an hour. Like, we were going straight into Jam Band territory. Oh, man. I'm just imagining, like, you know, ace freely in the military, like what that would have been like. That's the Kiss Army. It'd be amazing.

Exactly. That was the excuse. We can't join the American Army because we already are a part of the Kiss Army. We've renounced our citizenship in the United States to join the, the Kiss Nation of the world. So they were conscientious objectors on those grounds.

All right, well, let's get to our mailbag segment. I think once we start talking, you know, man, that was like the weirdest banter we've had in a while, I have to say. That was like the least indie rock. We talked about Paul Feinbaum. We talked about Anna Kendrick, possibly breaking up Jesus and Mero, talking about Kisses' military record. Extremely non-Indy rock this week, man.

I hope the heads aren't disappointed out there. Thank you all for writing in. It's always great to hear from our listeners. If you want to hit us up, we're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read our letter this week? Yeah, I always love like when it's, hey, Ian, you want to read our mailbag? It's usually one that pertains more to my interest. And Nick from Boston has not disappointed.

Also, Nick from Boston, very cool. Love it. Love it. Also just a great sports talk. He could call him to Paul Feinbaum and they'd be like, oh yeah, Nick from Boston, we got to get him in there. Yeah, but Boston's not really a college football town. That's true. Yeah, if it was more like, you know, Nick from Make in Georgia, you know, wanted to talk about Crimson Tides secondary.

All right, but Nick from Boston, however, he wants to talk more about pop punk. So second time, long time. I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts on the Wonder Years, the band, not the show. This seems like type of band that could have a place in the Indcast Canon, but I don't recall more than a passing mention in past episodes. I'd imagine this band falls more towards Ian's end of the Indycast spectrum, though they do have some Springsteen-esque anthemic hooks, similar to their Turnpike adjacent contemporaries, the Menzinger's, and Gaslight Anthem that could appeal to Steve. I'm a fan of most of this band's catalog, in particular, the 2013 album,

The Greatest Generation, which I think is one of the best pop-punks slash emo albums of the last decade. I also think Dan Campbell is one of the more interesting lead singers in this scene. I never thought I'd say this sentence, check out their recent pitchfork feature if you haven't already. They've cracked the pitchfork code. The singles they have dropped from their upcoming album, the hum goes on forever, have been solid. So I'd love to hear your opinions on an upcoming episode. So, Steve, Wonder Years. Well, yeah, so it's interesting.

You and I have a similar background with this band a bit because, just to concur with Nick from Boston, I am also a fan of the greatest generation. That album coincides, I think, with, like, the peak of my interest in the Wonder Years. Like, I was really into that album when it came out. I actually wrote about the Wonder Years when I was at Grantland. I wrote an article for them in 2014. I know you did, too. You wrote about it, I think, when that record came out, right?

Like, in 2013? I did. I love the fact we've both written about the Wonder Years for Grantland. Yeah. Oh, it's hilarious. Yeah. Love Grantland, man. You could write two articles.

on the Wonder Years within a year of each other and get away with it. I went to a show that they played in Chicago where the Wonder Years were headlining and Modern Baseball was opening. Oh yeah, I wrote an article about that tour as well for Wondering Sound.

It was the Wonder Years Fireworks, Citizen, modern baseball, real friends, and oh my God, there's one more band that I'm forgetting. Fuck. All right. It's going to kill me. but it was like six, but it was like five bands in that tour,

and I interviewed them all. So like we have like very intersecting paths here. Yeah, and I believe the modern baseball might have gone on first. At the show I was at, I was at the House of Blues in Chicago, even though it was like the House of Emo and Pop Punk that night. House of Blues in L.A. too.

I saw modern baseball because I was writing about them as well in that article. And then I went backstage to interview Dan Campbell. And I remember Dan hugged me. when he saw me, and we had never met before, and we had never really even talked outside of DMs, but he was a very friendly, gregarious guy, I remember. And I remember, too, that we talked a lot about past matchups between the Packers and the Philadelphia Eagles. Because they're from Philadelphia. He's a big sports fan.

He had joked in our DMs that in the interview that he only wanted to talk about pro wrestling and football. We didn't talk about pro wrestling, but we did talk about football, in particular the fourth and 26th game. Oh, yeah. Between the Packers and Eagles, which, of course, he loved. And for me, it's like one of the worst days of my life as a sports fan. Definitely like a top five, maybe top three, worst Packers loss in the playoffs of all time. Although during the Aaron Rogers era, there have been many contenders for the top three. It's really expanded the field.

but I digress. Yeah, I mean, I really like the greatest generation. I have to say that after that, I became maybe more of a dabbler in the Wonder Years where I would check out their records and I would always like certain songs, but not be totally sold. I still feel like that record for me hits the hardest.

And if you're a fan of the band, that might be a really irritating take. It's probably annoying to hear someone say that. Because this band has a really committed fan base. And one thing that Dan Campbell talked about, when I interviewed them was how much care they put into maintaining that fan base. And that was something I was really interested in at the time, comparing them to indie rock bands who I think often are a little more sort of hands-off with fan engagement,

whereas like, you know, Wonder Years were doing like pre-show Q&A sessions and acoustic shows and all this kind of fan outreach. I thought that was really interesting. And I think it's definitely paid off for them. you know, we're 10 years later and there's, I don't know if they've gotten bigger. Would you say they've gotten bigger or they're, or they are about the same level? I would say that, uh, they are about the same level. Like maybe, maybe they're about like the same level of popularity, but maybe it's a little bit spread out more than it was back in 2013. I do think that, um, you know, the fact that they are getting like, not just an album review, but like a feature on pitchfork is a major deal. Like when I interviewed them in 2017 for, um, you know, the fact that they are getting like, not just an album review, but like, a feature on pitchfork is a major deal. Like when I interviewed them in 2017 for, spin that was also indicative of like their desire to kind of look the whole crux of that article was like they love and respect their fan base so much but like you play pop punk for so long you want to be able to like not be a pigeonhole in there and so that's what kind of sister cities tried to do

in 2017 I think it's worth mentioning in that article that I remember talking to Dan and I'm an Eagles fan. He's like, yeah, I literally cried like a baby when the Eagles won the Super Bowl. So Dan Campbell is like an indie cast dude through and through. Oh, absolutely. He could come on and co-host this show. Maybe that's the 100th episode. So, yeah, I think with like the Wonder Years, like I think the greatest generation is their peak. I know quite a few people would say suburbia, I've given you all I've got in 2011 was their peak. but nonetheless, like, the greatest generation really hits me as someone who grew up around where they did. And, you know, I think it was more, it was like this real good balance of, like, personal, but, like,

also generational, like, political framework of it all. Like, uh, it was sort of like heartland rock, except suburban Philadelphia, uh, in terms of, like, tone. Um, after that, I'm a little bit a la carte. I never think they've really gotten the production right on their albums. Uh, Even the one they did with, like, Joe Chickorelli in 2017, he's like a guy who's produced like Jason Maraz and like My Morning Jacket and Frank Zappa. It was still like really sharp and brittle that didn't quite support the songwriting. Great songs, though.

And this new one, I'm excited for it as well. I think they got Will Yip on this one. Oh, see, that's the guy you want. I think that'll work. Yeah, Joe Chichorelli, you know. I feel like he is kind of a checkered past with being the producer that indie bands go to to level up. And then he makes a record that doesn't quite work. Like I know he did like a White Stripes record.

You mentioned my morning jacket. I think that was evil urges. It was evil urges. It was definitely evil urges. Which I know some people love, but it's indisputable that that record derailed them to some degree in terms of their commercial momentum. I think he's done A broken social scene record

He did like a Shins record I think he did wincing the night away I think that was the one yeah I think he did that one which again That record has some partisans But generally people feel like the first two are better So yeah I don't know I don't know why he keeps getting hired

He's like the Don Was of Indy Like Don Was makes these sort of dodgy Middle Age rock records that's what Joe Chichorelli is for indie bands, I think. So beware of Joe Chichorelli indie bands out there. Not sure if he's the best choice for you. But Will, yep, yeah, I'm definitely psyched for that. I think that could be a really good combination.

Do you feel like they have stopped wanting to be a crossover band and have sort of decided, okay, this is what we do, we're really good at it, we're not going to try to, you know, be more of a mainstream indie band? I mean, do you feel like they've reached that point? I think they've reached a point where I think they're more in the incoming call business when it comes to trying to, you know, reach out and like maybe get covered in other publications because I don't ever thought they were trying to be like, you know, a mainstream indie band. I think they just wanted to be seen as something other than like a pop punk band, you know, that to be able to like tour with other, you know, bands that are more indie as opposed to, you know, just doing tours with like other bands. that were on hopeless records or things like that.

And I think they've reached a point where when they do put out new albums and which happens like every four years nowadays, it will be well received because the people who grew up on their early albums are now music writers. And, you know, and I think there's a lesson in that. It's like if you stick with it long enough and you continue to put out good work and like do fan outreach, like eventually your breakthrough. out of the pop punk world will happen just because your fans will be music writers themselves. It's the cycle of life.

Yeah, you know, you can't dismiss a legacy man, a band that has hung around and done it. I mean, they feel, they're not like this musically, but they kind of feel to me like what the national is in indie rock. Like, that's what they are in pop punk. They're just like this band that keeps going. They do their thing. And you can rely on them. and even the haters over time

start to fade away because you can't deny the body of work and what they've done. So I think that's what the Wonder Years are. So yes, they get our respect here at Indycast and I would just say like if you feel like a band like the Wonder Years isn't your thing, I would definitely check out the greatest generation. I think that that is a record

that can connect with people that maybe don't normally listen to this kind of music. All right, we are now at the meat of our episode and I believe we did meet the 30 minutes or less requirement this week. We didn't do it last week. We went a little overboard with the banter. But even with all of our wacky banter this week, we got it in under 30 minutes, so I feel good about that.

You don't have to send this episode back for a free episode at another time. We're talking about the Indycast Hall of Fame here. We're inducting four albums to each for both of us here. Ian, do you want to explain to the people what the Indycast Hall of Fame is? So the Indicast Hall of Fame is, you know, we've talked about Dan Campbell from the Wonder Years being like a total Indicast type of dude. These are real like indie cast type of albums in the sense that they probably have some sort of crossover between, you know, my taste and Steve's taste.

And these are not like, you know, we're not going to talk about, say, okay computer. We're not going to talk about like vitology. We're not going to talk about ours distorted lullabies. You know, these, like, widely acknowledged canon classics. These are ones that are like, you'll probably like, oh, yeah, it's kind of like a remembersome guy's element to it. But something that's been either underrated or underappreciated or in the case of like two of the ones that I'm going to talk about, something that are like really out of time

that make you remember, oh, this was like 2003 or this is 1998. Do you think I got like a good... Do you think I nailed it there? Yeah, that sounds about right. I will say, I love inserting ours distorted lullabies into that litany of classic records. I think that they're in the Indycast Hall of Fame, though. I think, didn't you induct ours distorted lullabies? I probably did.

And, you know, one of these days... It's in there. One of these days I'm going to, like, put precious in there. They're highly divisive Ethan John's produced follow-up. Maybe get Jimmy Nico to swing by. the 100th episode. Maybe play a song or two for us. Do you think we could make that happen? I have little doubt we can make that happen.

So I'm going to go first here and induct one of my albums into the Indycast Hall of Fame. And I had actually double check to make sure that I hadn't already inducted this because this seems like a record that should already be in the Indycast Hall of Fame. I'm sure that there were people out there, you know, the writers out there who cover IndyCass They were complaining about us ignoring this record, leaving it out of the Hall of Fame for way too long. But I'm finally going to rectify that today. I'm talking about Constantine's self-titled record, their debut from 2001. Now, who are the Constantine's?

Well, they're this band from Ontario, Canada, who formed in 1999. And, you know, I think just right there, you know that they're an Indycast band. This is an indie rock band from Canada, very much up our alley. We love the Canadians. I would describe them, and I think a lot of people have described them, as basically Bruce Springsteen meets Fugazi. I think that was like the thing that a lot of people used to describe this band. And of course, that's a very Indycast type description. Basically, you have a bunch of Canadian guys and final shirts rocking out with like really gravelly voices.

Like, that's what this band is. and you know it's interesting because I feel like their best known record is their second record called Shine a Light came out in 2003 that album probably represents like the peak of their

indie fame but and I love that record by the way I think that's a fantastic record actually considered inducting that one but I think I ultimately went with the first record because I think that this album is an underappreciated touchdown for

bands that came along later and became better known. And I would say that, like, the template that this band helped to create, certainly like an aughts era indie, was like this sort of anthemic art punk template that bands like the Holt Steady, Titus Andronicus fucked up. And like even like a band like the Gaslight Anthem. I feel like all those bands hopped on that. That's sort of, again, springsteenie type indie rock,

which I think really came into fashion in the mid-aughts. but I feel like when Constantine's made this debut record, they were like a little bit ahead of the curve. And you just start with this record. You have the first song on the record. It's called Arizona. A great song, and it's about the suicide of this guy named Danny Rap,

who was a 50s rocker. He was in this group called Danny and the Juniors. Their most famous song is At the Hop, which I think people probably know that song. It's like a sort of like an archetypical 50s rock song that you used to. to hear on Oldies radio. And the opening line of the record is,

this is a song about the death of Danny Rap in the great gospel jest called rock and roll. Like right there, you know what you're getting into when you hear a line like that. And again, I think you can hear echoes of those other bands that I mentioned that are going to be coming down the pike a little bit after Constantine's.

And, you know, again, like, I love Shine a Light. I think that is like the sort of refined second album, whereas the debut is like the sort of like raw and unrefined first record. And that's a dynamic that exists with a lot of bands. Sometimes I like the second record more than the first. In this case, I have to go with the first record. I mean, there's just so many incredible bangers on this album. I love the song Young Offenders, like the breakdown at the end of that song. Just cue that song up. The ending just rocks so hard. It's just phenomenal. And yeah, I like to think of this record in the context of the year that it came out in, which is 2001,

the year of is this it by the strokes, you know, white blood cells by the white stripes, you know, those were the records that the media really latched on to as being like at the vanguard of rock and roll or like the future of rock and roll. Constantine's had their partisans, but they didn't get the same kind of attention that those bands got. And I do wonder about like an alternate reality,

like where critics went as crazy for the Constantine, as they did for the strokes and how that might have shaped indie rock in the 2000s. Again, I think this band ended up being influential with their own career trajectory, even though they kind of ran out of steam by the end of the odds.

They put out a record called Tournament of Hearts in 2005. That was pretty good. And then I think in 2008, it was a record I believe it's called Kensington Heights. The records basically got quieter as they went along, and I think a little less powerful. But I don't know.

This is a great record, great band. I think they have their fans, but there's definitely a lot of people who've never heard of this band or heard this record. If you like the bands I mentioned, definitely check this out. It's an indie cast Hall of Famer, Constantine Self-Titled. Yeah, I think they're also Japan Droids' favorite band of all time. Oh, that totally makes sense. Yeah, so even if, like, this band sucked, we'd have to acknowledge them as basically being responsible for the podcast you're listening to now. I like this band a lot too.

I'm more of a shine a light, partisan nighttime anytime is like that. That song like right there is just like if you ask me what kind of music you're into, I would say that. And I think that the Constantine's are a great example of what I would like to hear, which is that if you are doing

like a Fugazi Springsteen sort of thing, like tip the scale more towards Fugazi. We've really erred towards the size of Bruce Springsteen. and, you know, that can get a little bit caricatured very easily. But, yeah, again, it's like the sort of band that could get, not famous, but indie famous in 2001 while also being overshadowed. I think a band like this, if they were to come out today, I don't think they would get the same sort of attention that they did back then. So this is perfect indie cast stuff.

It's a band kind of stuck between stations to quote a hold steady song, I can do that too. There you go. what's your first inductee into the Indicast Hall of Fame? All right, so with this choice, I feel like I'm trying to manifest a couple of Indycast mailbag questions. This is like a Russian nesting doll of like these subgenres that we talk about where you get, you have a band with like a massive catalog, but only one good album. And it's even more rare when that one good album isn't the debut. I know particularly with like rap, you get like that classic, uh, debut album. then you kind of draft off that success

to the rest of your career. This is even more rare to find a band with a massive catalog with one good album and it's not the debut and actually the other albums are mostly awful. With all due respect, I'm thinking like placebo is an example.

I know with say anything is a real boy is just a lot better than everything else they've done. And like bands like this usually result in me reviewing, like just panning the shit out of like one or two albums

that they do because it's like, oh, Ian likes this band. Why don't we assign it to him? And you just kind of resent the fact that 45 minutes of excellent music have made you invested in this band that just got like, like they got really lucky on one album. And so this one eels electroshock blues. It's also in a subcategory of one hit Wonders who actually made a better album the next time out.

Blind Melon Soup. The Ben's is kind of an example of that. So who are Eels? I would imagine most of our listeners know who Eels are. They had more or less a Beck rip-off hit with Novocaine for the Soul back in 1996. After Beck, you started to see a ton of artists like this, you know, kind of deadpan and ironic pose, kind of Dust Brothers style production. I worked at the Gap in 1998, and you would hear so many bands like that. this.

It's so 90s. It's so 90s. Yeah. I feel like it's the most 90s music. Of all of the subgenres, that is the most of its time. And I can't ever see it coming back into fashion. Like, it just seems so of its time and old timing. But who am I to say?

I don't know. There's people for whom that might just be amazing. And younger people who will just be blown away by it. But yeah, Eels was definitely a part of that. Yes. And Electroshock Blues was a very specific subgenre of late 90s alternative rock that was on the DreamWorks label that Stephen Spielberg kind of helped finance. This is where you start to see. I think like Elliot Smith was on DreamWorks, at least the major label albums.

And a bunch of stuff I've forgotten. But it's like alt rock, but there's more kind of like there would be like, you know, record scratching on there or like string samples. again, extremely dated. And yet, Electroshock Blues is their second album. And it was mostly about like Mark Everett, their family, people in their family like dying from cancer. And so it's kind of this like a very dark conceptual album about death and, you know, just thinking about, you know, the pointlessness of life.

And so this sort of framework allows, the things that became so curdled and just cringe on the next few albums. Like, he's sort of got this like Mark Marin, you know, like he's really a curmudgeon, but if you dig down deep, he's actually like a really sweet guy sort of thing. That became like real schick on every other Eels album. But this one, I feel almost guilty loving this album because it almost implies that like, you know, death is the thing, like, like, real death, like real pain is the sort of thing that can, I don't know, focus his artistic talents

because, you know, he can write a catchy song and he can do so very easily. But vaguely related, I wrote an Eels review in 2018, which again, that's like, what have I done to deserve this? What I actually did in that review is just I plagiarized previous Eels reviews from Pitchfork. I just wrote one paragraph where I just stole lines from previous reviews just to see if anyone would notice to make a point about how Eels albums are made where it's just E completely ripping himself off. But again, like I want to not like this album when I go back to it, but it just kind of levels me every single time. Maybe it's because I heard it when I was 18 and it seemed profound. But, you know, there are just some really beautiful songs, really like dark and deeply felt.

ones. There's a song called Climbing to the Moon, which is the duet with Grantley Phillips. Grantley Buffalo was a last minute cut from this episode as far as Indycast Hall of Famers. We'll probably hear them going forward. Was it Mighty Joe Moon? Was that the one you were thinking of? Oh yeah, Mighty Joe Moon. Oh man. Yeah, we got to get that in at some point. Yeah. You're on deck. I saw Grantley Buffalo. I found out about them because they opened for R.E.M. on the monster tour. So again, pure indie cast.

Yeah. Electroshock Blues is, I just can't describe why it still brings things up in me, despite the fact that Eels has made just so much garbage music in the time since. But again, to make like one classic album is really, really hard. So I can't hold it against Eels for like only having lightning strike once. Well, I really like that pick. I like the idea of picking just a great album by an artist that you feel like has on balance just put out a lot of bad records.

So I think that was like a cool choice. It's a good left field choice to put that in. And I feel like you've thrown down the gauntlet. I think on my next slate of inductees, I'm going to have to try to think of a similar situation of a record I love by someone I just think has put out a lot of bad records. and the only instance that's coming to mind for me right now is the suburbs with Arcade Fire. I feel like, especially over time, like I've not really liked.

I mean, a funeral I like. I don't like it as much as a lot of people. Anyway, I've opened a can of worms with that. With that one. Let's just move on. I'll elaborate that maybe some other time. My next inductee is a band from Denmark. They're called M-E-W.

And the record I want to talk about is called In The Glass Handed Kites. In this album, it came out in Europe in 2005. It was released in America the following year. And I remember I read the review of this record in Pitchfork, and it was written by the great Nisua Bubba, who I think, one of the great music writers of our generation. Love him. And he doesn't write record reviews anymore.

He's an editor now at New York Times Magazine, but he was one of the great critics, I think, of the aughts in early 2010s. And he reviewed this record, and I believe it had gotten 8.4 from Pitchfork. And he described it as Queensreich meets Cigaroos, which I thought that's a perfect description of this record. Essentially, you have this very, on one hand, sort of atmospheric art pop band from Europe. On the other hand, you have these just totally bonkers Prague rock influences going on with this band. results in this sound that I'm going to

say this with a straight face. I think this is kind of like a magical sounding record and I mean that in the sense that I think it's a beautiful record. There's like a lot of things going on that are really moving but it also kind of sounds like a magic show, you know, or like a fairy tale.

There's something very sort of fanciful about this record that I could see turning off a certain subset of listeners. You know, I could see people putting this record and feeling like, whoa, this is like a little too much for me. But, you know, I revisited it recently and I found myself just getting swept up in it again like I did in 2006. I should give a little bit of background on this band. They formed, like I said, in Denmark in

1995. They put out their first record in 97 called The Triumph for Man. I think they started getting some attention here in America with their record Fringers, which came out in two. 2003, and then that's at the stage for this record in the glass-handed kites, which is a record that, you know, along with that brilliant Nisubaba description, Queenswright meets Sigur Rose, I would describe this record as like if Radiohead had decided that they were just going to double down on paranoid Android, like over and over again on their subsequent records, and just make it more grandiose, more beautiful, you know, more, again, magical sounding. And really kind of move in more of like a Genesis-type direction, you know, which is, again,

obviously, that's the opposite of what Radiohead actually did. But if they had done that, I think it would sound a lot like this Mew record. I also feel like there are some elements that remind me of M83 on this record, like what they ended up doing on Hurry Up I'm Dreaming. I don't know if you feel that at all with this band. But there is sort of like a twinkly, dreamy quality to this record that reminds me of a lot of that M83 record. I mean, just revisiting this record,

I mean, there's a song on here called The Zookeeper's Boy, which, okay, you know what you're getting with a song called The Zookeeper's Boy. You know, the whimsical element is off the charts here. But I, you know, whenever I hear it, It's like this combination. You have this really aggressive bass line and rhythm section. And then it goes to the chorus.

And it's, again, this super twinkly, dreamy, gooey, just beautiful vocal chorus, which, again, I think for some listeners, they're going to feel like they bit into like the sweetest cream puff of all time when they hear this song. It might give them cavities. But for me, I just, it's sublime. And this is a band that, you know, Like I said, they got an 8.4, this record did in 2006 from Pitchfork.

But I don't know. I don't hear a lot of conversation about this band. Really now, I feel like they've been kind of forgotten a little bit, at least here in America. But it seems like the kind of record that bands could rediscover and be really inspired by. Because I think there's a lot of ideas on this album. And there's a lot of sort of cool juxtapositions of things that normally don't go together. I don't know. It totally holds up for me.

Do you remember this record? Are you a fan of this album? Oh, Zookeeper, boy, I fucking love that song. Like, you know, the way you describe it, it's like got that aggressive bass, but it's twinkly and the vocals are super pristine. Yeah, shit's right up my alley. And also, there's a Jay Massis vocal cameo on this record, which, you know, in addition to everything Steve has said to describe it, you also have, like, fucking Jay Massis,

putting his vocals over it. Yeah, it's like, which is, that totally feels random on this album, but it works. Oh, yeah. But it's like, and I don't know if he plays guitar. I think he's just singing. Which, normally you get Jay Maskus,

you want him to play guitar. You're not really looking for his voice, but they use him for his voice. And it has like a Mark Lanigan type quality, you know, he's like this gruff presence against the more, again, kind of fanciful

vibe that this band gives off. So it's actually a really cool cameo by him. So my favorite Mew album is the one that came out after this one. It's got no more stories and then the album title goes on for like 15 minutes. But you know, you were saying like that this would be the kind of record that maybe people would rediscover now. Low key, this band is like super influential amongst like emo bands that are more Prague. They're almost. And They're almost kind of seen as like Coheed and Cambria-ish, maybe. I could see that. I could definitely see that.

I think that they're a little more pop-friendly, though, than Co-Heed. You know, like, yeah, a lot of these kind of proggy bands, they really kind of go into the weeds with very elaborate song structures, very elaborate concepts. This band isn't really like that. They have Prague elements, but I think all the songs are really catchy and melodic and pop-friendly. So I just realized, too, that we keep saying mew. People might think that we're saying muse. It kind of sounds like muse, but again, it's M-E-W, not M-U-S-E.

Very similar bands in a lot of ways, but I'd say Mew is more focused and not quite as wacky as muses. So if you want a less wacky muse, go with Mew and glass-handed kites, an Indycast Hall of Famer. Yes. So the last album I'm going to talk about It's actually got kind of similar qualities to Mew In that there's some proggy elements to it A lot of sweetness with like this underlying kind of aggression This is at the intersection of two particular

Indycast favorite subgenres The first of which is post-OK computer Quote Next Radio Headbands from the UK And also Dave Friedman Corps Dave Friedman, of course, the producer who was in Mercury Rev and is most well known for doing a soft bulletin would later go on to do the first couple of Tame Impala records, just a very, very long discography, but mostly known for heavy string sections, very distorted, low end. And they are the Delgado's.

They are a Scottish band. They are from, I guess you would say, the early 2000s. and they just made a comeback announcement recently. I think it's funny. This one comes up about a week after we had the discussion of unwound and arches of loaf, like these bands that weren't exactly A-lister's. And, you know, sometimes I'll see bands like the Delgado's announce a comeback, and it'll just be like a few reunion shows in the UK.

And I can't be that excited about it because even if they were to come to the United States, it would be like three total shows, like one in L.A., one in Chicago and one in New York, and that's about it. But, so this album, Hate, it came out, I believe in two, I think it was similar to Mew in that it came out in Europe in 2002, but eventually made its way to the United States in 2003. And again, just remember, there used to be a time where an album could come out in Europe first. Right. Yeah. Or just come out in one country or one, you know, I mean, does that still happen?

I feel like everything just comes out everywhere now. But it must get staggered to some degree. Yeah, in some degree, maybe because like vinyl pressing or whatever. But so this was the sort of band that you had to discover because of the Internet. I'm trying to remember how I found out about their 2000 album, The Great Eastern. That's sort of like the self-titled Constantine's to what this is maybe the shine of light. You know, they got a lot of attention. They were in that sort of atmosphere of like Maguire or Bell and Sebastian.

you know kind of twee but still pretty art rock and so this one though it just it just amplifies everything to 11 that the great eastern did they have a dual vocalist thing going on and i know you've talked about liking that sort of dynamic and it switches like every single song um it is you'll have like this guy with a little more of a cynical kind of snide vocal and a very pretty song coming after that a lot of the songs are in waltz time which don't hear that much anymore um and there's like just prog elements of these long string sections uh six and a half minute song length but you know what makes this one stand out to me is i mean just look at the title it's called hate and uh some of the like the the big song uh is all you need is hate you know it's kind of like a randy newman

style skewering of all you need is love. They also have songs called The Drowning Years and Child Killers. Not like more of like an angry, aggressive, like hardcore sort of thing, but more just this cynical worldview. I think it's like more similar to like McClusky, maybe not like as absurdist in its humor, but this was the kind of worldview that made a lot of sense to me when I first heard this at 22. It doesn't really hold the same weight. that it did back then, you know, like, it's, it's still, like, very much appealing in, like, a Lewis Black sort of way, you know, like that angry comedian who's like, this world's all bullshit and, like, so forth. But when I hear it now, I like it because, you know, the songs are

very well constructed. They're very well beautiful. It's, like, good David Friedman, as opposed to when you hear some bad David Fridman, he's sort of like Joe Chickerelli in that there's, like, a lot of like variance in his catalog. But I think like what appeals to me most of all is that this is like a, they don't make them like this anymore and they never will type of record. I just can't imagine a situation where this sound comes back. And so the fact that it sounds dated, I actually view that as a positive. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk

about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right. So I want to talk about a band called Pool Kills. is. They have a self-titled record coming out today. It's a follow-up to their, I believe it was 2019 album called Music to Practice Safe Sex 2. That was actually 2018, where Music to Practice Safe Sex 2 came out. So in between then and now, the big thing that happened to them is that Haley Williams from Powermore found word about them and said, this is what we were trying to sound like

early on. And, you know, some of the vocals do have a bit of a Haley Williams tone to it, but they are way more kind of like math, twinkle rock sort of thing. There is a bit of a subgenre of this happening right now where, you know, people will combine fueled by ramen type melodies, but with like more complicated, like, finger tapping and time signature switchups. A lot of times this stuff is good for a song at a time, but very rarely have I heard a band pull it off for an entire record. I think this one really swings for the fences and for the most part, like, follows through. And the interesting part about it is that it's the pretty slower songs that hit more than, like, the more aggressive ones that, you know, kind of have talking, like, Twitter speak.

I think that this band still has, like, a little bit of room for growth to, like, make their true masterpiece. But, like, the way that this album steps up from their previous one, just shows that they're a band with ambition. they're a band that knows how to write a catchy song and make good arrangements. And I do see them as something that could really, really, really be something that carries over throughout this year. We're at the end of the year, the punk and emo-leaning sites call this one one of the top albums of 2022. So pool kids, big fan of this.

So I just want to say that if Ian wouldn't have recommended this, I would have recommended it. because I like this record a lot too. And, you know, one thing I appreciate about this band, like you were saying, the combination of melody and really kind of, like, mathy instrumentation. I also think there's a lot of wit in the songs as well. Like, I like that one song where she's talking about being on a group chat with 21 goddamn people. Arms length. Yeah, her phone crashes 37 times a day.

Like, I thought, you know, like, that I appreciate. I appreciate the, you know, there's like a real sly. sense of humor in a lot of the songs that I think really makes this record go down easy. Where I think, you know, when you have those mathy elements, it can maybe get a little too heady or intellectual or technical, but I think they balance the pop and the, you know, the finger-tapping guitar hero pyrotechnics like really well. It's a really entertaining record. So definitely getting a cool endorse for me with that album. But since Ian, is talking about the email record, which makes sense for him to do.

I will talk about a singer-songwriter record, which makes sense for me to do. And that record is Birds in the Sealing. It's by a guy named John Morland. And Morland is a guy who, I think, depending on your musical taste, is either going to be like a really well-known person or completely anonymous. If you are interested in Americana music, he has been, I think, one of the big names for the past, say, 5 to 6, 7. years. He's actually been putting out records since 2008, but I know I first heard about him

in like the mid-2010s when he put out a record called High on Tulsa Heat. And that began a series of records that I think have really established him as like the singer-songwriter's singer-songwriter. Like I think people used to say that about Jason Isbell, but like now Jason Isbell is like too famous, you know? So like if you want to recommend a really good singer-songwriter that that has a cult following but isn't really known in the mainstream yet. This is the guy I think that people talk about. And he has, again, he's gotten more attention, I think, in recent years. I know Amanda Petrusich profiled him for the New Yorker a few years ago,

so he's getting some of that kind of attention. But I don't know. His new record, I don't really look at it as like a crossover type album. I'm not sure if people who aren't into this kind of thing are not. now going to latch on because of this album. Although I think it is worth noting that on his recent records, he's branched out a bit from the sort of standard acoustic type instrumentation to incorporating some electronic elements into his music, almost like in a David Gray kind of way.

But like, you know, David Gray, if he was like from Oklahoma, you know, like more of like a middle American, you know, like Towns Van Zant, Towns Van Zant's from Texas. but, you know, like that middle American singer-songwriter thing with like a little bit of like electronica going on underneath it. And it's a pretty cool combination. And I think he's found a way to do that in a way that seems organic and not like he's sort of self-consciously trying to branch out. So again, if you are into like really good lyrics,

really sort of understated emotionalism that kind of sneaks up on you, really gives you a gut punch. I think this is the record you're going to want to put on. I think it's a really good summertime record. if you're sitting in your lawn chair, sipping a beer, put it on this record, I think it'll go very well in that contact. It's called Birds in the Sealing,

and it's by John Morland. Yeah, fun fact, when I interviewed Barty's Strange, he talked about going to, like, him and John Morland were like college pals at University of Oklahoma. Wow. Yeah, it's so wild because Barty's like, yeah, I was coming up with John Morland

and Samantha Crane. Yeah, his roots go really deep in the country world. And also, yeah, I feel like if we're doing Indycast in like 2050 and we're on like our 10,000th episode, we're going to be talking about like this is an Indycast Hall of Famer just because you pitched it as David Gray from Tulsa. Well, that about does it for this episode of Indycast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week.

And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.