Indiecast - New Albums By Jessica Pratt And Mdou Moctar + A Review Of Local Natives' Career

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

Steven and Ian begin today's episode by catching up with "Euphoria," the diss track that Kendrick Lamar unleashed on Drake this week. Did Kendrick really confuse The Sixth Sense star Haley Joel Osment with Texas televangelist Joel Osteen? Looks like it! (0:30) They also check in with the buzzy Sabrina Carpenter pop hit "Espresso," which has signaled the annual (tiresome) conversation about the song of the summer. (11:14)Then they transition to a conversation about Local Natives, the LA band who recently lost one of their founding members. Steven and Ian recap the group's career and comment on the enduring popularity of early 2010s indie stars. (17:26) From there, they discuss three artists who Steven's Fantasy Albums team — Jessica Pratt, Mdou Moctar, and Kamasi Washington — who put out new albums today. (30:25)In the mailbag, they give the yay-or-nay treatment to Amen Dunes (41:54), and also engage in more Lake Mendota/Hovvdy talk. (48:03)For Recommendation Corner, Ian talks up the Swedish band Rain Recordings while Steven catches with the British group English Teacher. (53:31)New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 187 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the song of the summer. Local natives and an update of the fantasy albums draft. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He also confused Haley Joe Osment with Joel Olstein,

Ian Cohen Ian, how are you? I'm going to like skip ahead to recommendation corner and say if you want to listen to a rapper who never gets Joel Osteen confused with anyone else, listen to Beat King. This is a very deep cut for people who like Houston rap from the middle of the 2010s,

but I just remember Beat King would always say he'd like be watching TVs in his car and like one would be showing porno and the other would be showing Joel Osteen because he's from Texas. So yeah, Beat King. We're going to do a bonus recommendation corner That's beautiful.

Well, ahead of the Beat King thing, we need to fill people in on those who are not keeping up with disc tracks this week. Kendrick Lamar emerged from wherever he's been. Alabasas. To record a disc track about Drake. It's called Euphoria. Do we know why he's dissing Drake? Oh, yeah. Does something happen with Drake?

What's the deal there? All right. So I know people. do indeed come to us to explain this Avengers-style beef of 2010 top-line rappers. They're getting all of our news they get from this podcast. Sports news, politics news, film news, prestige TV. Distracts, everything. Yeah, so over the past, I want to even say like maybe even month,

there's just been this round of discracks going about with like Drake and Future and Jake Cole going at. each other and Rick Ross is involved. Metro Boomin is involved. John Moran is involved somehow. Apparently Joel Osteen and Haley Joel Osman are catching strays. So, you know, to just kind of, I don't think our listeners won't mind if I get kind of basketball playoffs with it, but it all just kind of looks to me like the first round of the playoffs where like Joel Embed and LeBron and Steph Curry and KD and possibly Janus are going out in the first round. I mean, these are, all rappers who are still probably the biggest rappers alive, but in a way kind of 2010-ish and washed.

And it just feels, it's exciting in some regard because this is clearly the most I've ever cared about a Rick Ross and Drake and Future album in like 10 years. But also, they're like beefing about like emotional maturity and fatherhood and cosmetic surgery. It just reminds me of like when I come home sometimes. My wife tells me about what. what she saw in Vanderpump rules that day. And it's like kind of hard for me to keep all of it straight,

but I kind of have an outline of it. So essentially there's just like, oh, the big three is, you know, Future, Kendrick and Jay Cole. Oh, no, it's like Drake and Rick Ross. And I know that might not be a real granular explanation of it, but just know that like these enormous rappers are beefing at each other and making like seven minute disc songs. The songs themselves or whatever,

it's not going to be like the takeover or like ether where these things kind of stick around as actual songs or hit them up. But I will just say that anytime someone asks me what I think about this, I just recommend them some RXK nephew songs so they know what a real disc track in 2024 sounds like. I don't know if you're anything like me.

I mean, I think we're covering this because we have a vested interest in 36, year old people arguing. You know, I feel like that's part of our beat. Yes. So that it's pertinent in that regard. You made references to some of the most well-known disc tracks of all time, take over, hit them up.

And my thought on this song, Euphoria, is, shouldn't a disc track be funny and, like, fun to listen to? Like, I feel like that should be inherent to this genre of song. I mean, look, like everything Kendrick does, this song, it's a very technically impressive demonstration of lyricism. It's very dense, and he is very surgical in his takedown of Drake. I mean, this is the equivalent to a mean book review in book form, you know, like the rap equivalent of that, very thorough.

Although, as I alluded to in the intro, there is one big mistake in the disc track where Kendrick appears to make some references to the acting career of Haley Joe Osmond, the star of the Sixth Sense. He was also in the Steven Spielberg film, AI. I think he went on, wasn't he on entourage? I think he, as an adult, he was on entourage. Yeah, I think he carved out a role for him. Because he looks like he's, he looks like the sort of dude's like, oh, if you told me that was the basis of death cat for cutie, I would believe you. Yeah, he's like a burly guy with like, like,

long hair and a beard now, but he still has the Haley Joe Osmond face. He's also 36 years old, so, yeah. He's also 36 years old. So, Kendrick appears to make references to Haley Joe Osmond films, but he refers to him as Joel Osteen, the televangelist who is based, I think he's based in Houston. Yeah. Right? That's why the Houston rapper guy is referencing him.

But you can see him all over the country. If you turn on your television at 9 a.m. on Sunday morning, there's a good chance you're going to see Osteen. Yeah, that's all I got for you. You have exhausted my reservoir of Joel Osteen lore. Yeah, he's a guy, I'm picturing him. He has kind of like, he has like a perm going on. Like a rictus grin, like clearly, Botox the fuck out. Right. It's like the real life righteous gemstones, essentially. I think that's actually what it's based on that show. Yeah, although I think there's even crazier examples of Osteen that are more regional that we don't know about.

Like Osteen is like the relatively mainstream. Yeah, mainstream televangelists now. But anyway, Kendrick appears to confuse Osteen and Osmond and his rap here. So that's like an unintentionally funny part of the song. but I don't know. Am I wrong here? I just feel like this tracks, the best ones are funny.

Like, they're cruel, but they're funny. I was thinking about like no Vaseline. Yeah. By Ice Cube, which is probably my favorite disc track of all time. That's really funny. And also, like, the music is great. Yeah.

Kendrick's not funny. That's, like, kind of his Achilles heel. Right. He can be very unintentionally funny. Like, I was listening to Pimp a Butterfly a few weeks back when there was that whole, argument. It's like, oh, actually, this album is boring. That kind of made a little bit of waves. And it's not a boring album, but the song about where, like, God is a homeless person, like, that's

kind of funny to me. Like, I think that's where Kendrick, uh, kind of, a lot of people are, like, I thought Kendrick was above this sort of thing. And, you know, if you believe a rapper is above, like, a petty disc track, you know, that's kind of, that gives away the game right there. The, the, the Drake disc tracks, even if, like, I don't always agree with them. is that he can be kind of funny. Like, he will say things that are just, like, really out of pocket. And, yeah, I don't think Kendrick has that in him. Future's too zooted out to do that.

Jay Cole is also too earnest. Him and Kendrick are kind of two sides of the same coin. So, um, right. The best thing, though, about this, the best, if you want the funniest stuff, you got to go to Rick Ross's Instagram page. That shit's funny. I was just thinking about Kendrick. He also did record a song with you.

and that was on damn. Yes, yes, I completely forgot about that. And bringing Bono on to a rap song in like, I think that was 2017, it was on damn. That's a funny idea. Although, again, not intentionally funny. Yeah, Drake is someone who seems to have at least some level of self-awareness and awareness of his own ridiculousness that he will lean into it sometimes. although I don't Again with him

I might be giving him too much credit But I do feel like Because he's a very memeable person obviously He's been memed many times So I think he's got some sense of that But yeah He's not like a witty guy really I mean you're not going to him for clever lines

And also he supposedly doesn't even write his own lines I mean that was like another thing that was floating around this week Reviving the accusations about taking care like how he didn't write anything on that record. It's a great fucking record. I could give a shit who wrote it. I mean, you can believe it was written about him. So, yeah, that to me is like a non-starter

as far as, as far as this stuff goes. I mean, also we've been doing that for like, God, how fucking long, like 10, 15 years. Like that, you got to come up with some new material. Damn it. The basketball analogy, I think, is really good. I think you're right. I mean, there is a, it's like, people care about the playoffs more when LeBron and Golden State are in it.

But there is also that fatigue with them. It's like, okay. Let the 2020s happen, you know. Right, exactly. It's 2024. You know, the 2010s, they're over. It was a mixed bag, even in the moment. Let's move on here.

I mean, that's just true at all parts of culture. I mean, you look at the election. It's like, Jesus Christ, these guys, these guys, these guys. guys again. These guys again, that's like the predominant narrative at all corners of culture and politics right now. It's like, really? Again? Let's move on here. We need like the, we need the equivalent of Anthony Edwards and SGA in politics. You know, we, the fresh blood we can get excited about. I think that statement really did make good on our claim a few minutes ago that people will come to us for politics, sports, music. Like that really, the unified theory of Indy

You just nailed it. We could retire on that line. I like to imagine that there's at least one listener out there who consumes no other media except this show. So they're like, I don't need anything else. I'll just listen to the show. I'll get everything I need. All the important news right here.

Speaking of important news, there is discourse happening about the song of the summer. It's back. Actually, you know, I can't complain about this. too much because we are in May and summer is upon us. There have been years when the song of the summer conversation, which by the way, if you're a regular listener of this show, you've heard me complain about this.

It's an annual tradition. I feel like when this ever comes up, I always end up complaining about it. It is my least favorite story of the music criticism calendar, the debate over the song of the summer. I like songs of the summer in theory. I just like it to be organic. I feel like it's become a pageant.

Well, it's not that it's become a pageant. It's long been a pageant of content writing that we have to speculate on this starting in February about what's going to be the song of the summer. It was, this discourse got fresh life this week because there's a new song from someone named Sabrina Carpenter who I know nothing about. I'll be up front.

I think she's toured with Taylor Swift. Sounds about right. I mean, on the Eros tour. That's all I know about her. She has a song called Espresso. That, I don't know if you've heard this song. It's sort of like a throwback disco type song with terrible lyrics that are endearing. They're endearingly terrible.

Like, I don't know what the connection is to coffee products, really. It does rhyme with a lot of stuff. Yeah, I don't think it's literally about espresso Just like a nonsense Where do you throw into a disco jam essentially But anyway, people have been talking about this song They're calling it a bop Do people still say the word bop?

I don't know Is that word expired yet? You're more up on the song of the summer discourse Than I am, but I imagine that's the case But people are talking about this song and it's apparently in the poll position in the song of the summer sweepstakes. Have you listened to this song?

Did you shoehorn this in between new emo releases this week on the Ian Cohen music listening diet? Yeah, I was thinking about not actively trying to seek it out just to see how long it would take me to absorb the de facto song of the summer in real time and real life. But, you know, for the purposes of the episode, I did listen to it. And my first thought about it is that it reminded me a little bit of the Barbie movie. One line that Greta Gerwig said that really stuck with me about that movie is that she was doing the thing and subverting the thing.

And so, you know, espresso sounded to me like in some ways, like a quintessal. essential, you know, quote-unquote summer jam, but there's something uncanny about the lyrics, like you said. It's just like a lot of times, like a lot of random words thrown together that sound good and become kind of memeable in their own way. And it's like not the sort of thing you can micromanage, even if it is like a very prefab song. There's just something kind of uncanny and dare I say kind of magical about the way it all comes together. And I think there's something sort of kind of organic about this because, you know, you got like dual leapos. You know, coming out with her album, I think, this week, which, you know, like that, that's the

album that's supposed to provide the song of the summer. I just like the fact that it seems kind of settled already. And I don't think that's happened. Gosh, at least as long as we've been doing this podcast. Like, people either, like, this is really that definitively song in the summer, or people are just as fucking exhausted as we are. It's like, all right, this sounds good. Let's pack it up.

Let's call it a day, you know? I just feel like you can't declare a song of the summer until you're at a swimming pool or the beach or wherever in July. And the song comes on in the wild. And you're like, oh, okay, this totally works for summer. What was the song of last summer? I think it was right down the line by Jerry Rafferty. I think that was the song of the summer. I swear to God, that was the song.

I went to a wedding this weekend. and that was the song they like walked down the... Or no, I think that might have been the first dance. I'm not fucking making this up. That's amazing. Yeah, this is not at all a bit from us. This is like real-time reaction.

That was the exact song that they played. I need to know this couple. I need to hang out with them. I was just looking at the lyrics for espresso. Move it up, down left, right-o. Switch it up like Nintendo. Say you can't sleep, baby, I know. that's that me espresso

okay and then I can't relate to desperation my give a fucks are on vacation that's a good one hate that I give a fucks we're on vacation and I got this one boy

and he won't stop calling when they act this way I know I got him so okay so it's like she's being the temptress hearing the song she's I do I do like that line

switch it up like Nintendo I did like laugh when I heard that one. So I'm giving Sabrina Carpenter the edge over Kendrick Lamar. Where's her pollitzer, you know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like, where's your

Nintendo reference, Kendrick? Come on. But yeah, I don't know. Let's just let this thing play out organically. I think we need to be in the wild in the summer before we can declare a song of the summer. So it might be the song. It might be some song that hasn't come out yet.

It might be some left field. jam, you know, I don't know, we'll find out. But not that we really care that much. I don't want to like, I like I care that much about this. Let's talk about, we're going to take a hard left here. We're going to talk about local natives. L.A. zone. They're from L.A. right?

They're definitely from L.A. They are, like, quintessential. When I lived in L.A. from, like, 2010 to 2016, like, local natives were, like, that band, inextricable from that period of time of my life. So we were talking about this band this week over the DMs because there was a stereo gun post talking about how a founding member of the band,

singer and multi-instrumentalist Kelsey Iyer, has left the band. And apparently they have multiple singers in local natives. Is that right? Yeah, but him and Taylor are like the main. ones. This is like a really significant like the entire band. Like from the beginning they've kind of presented themselves as like, you know, guys who

met in college at UCLA and they had multiple singers. And this is like a pretty, this is like a very significant loss for the band. Like it changes the entire character of them. So again, for those who may not be totally well-bursed in local natives, this is a band that formed in 2008. they put out their first record Gorilla Manor in 2012 and I remember like at the time

them being classified as like a vampire weekend knockoff I think at least that's how they were dismissed maybe among the haters but they just are such a quintessential band I don't know if we want to call them blog rock if they are their like late stage blog rock

but they are a part of that window of time in the early 2010's when this kind of indie rock still existed kind of like a leftover from the 2000s type of indie rock that was so popular it was still hanging on in the early 2010s and then as we've often talked about on this show

around 2013 you have this shift to a much more sort of pop-oriented type of indie rock personified by like Lord, the 1975, that whole generation, they come in. And it's interesting with that generation of bands that kind of hold over indie rock from the 2000s because they don't really get talked about so much after the early 2010s. But there's so many examples of these bands being way more popular than they get credit for in the media.

And we've talked about this before on the show. I mean, they're a little bit before local natives, but like Cold War Kids is a band that I'm always amazed by how popular they are still. They played here in Minneapolis a few months ago, and they played at First Avenue, sold out show, huge line outside. And look, I mean, First Avenue is not the biggest venue in the world, but there's lots of indie darlings right now that would love to fill that room. and they get way more coverage than a band like Cold War Kids does. We've talked about Lord Huron on this show before. They're another band. I associate with that moment.

They are more contemporary to local natives. I don't know. It's really interesting. Local natives apparently put out two albums this year. Did you know this? Yes, I did. I think they put out one last year and a companion one this year. Okay.

Right. Yeah. Time will wait for no one. Was that the one that came out last year? Yeah, I believe so. And then, but I'll wait for you, came out this year. I got to say, like, I was never a huge local natives fan, but I put on Gorilla Manor this morning,

and I was shocked by how it transported me back to 2012. Like, this is a record I would have listened to casually back then. But, you know, you get that feeling in your chest, like when you hear a record you haven't heard in a while, and it reminds you of a moment really powerfully. It's like the magic trick of music that a song can do that. I was like, oh, my son is about to be born, and I'm still living in Milwaukee.

Like I had that feeling in my chest. Just listen to that record. So it's like, wow, Gorilla Manor. It's been living in my heart, apparently, without me knowing it. What's your relationship with this band? I mean, you're in Southern California. I imagine in the circles you run in, local natives are still rock stars. Yeah, these are my dudes.

I interviewed them multiple times in the kind of guerrilla manner 2010 through Hummingbird 2013 era. And they were the shit back then. They still are very popular. But I love how this band come, like this wedding I went to this weekend is, It's been extremely powerful for source material. The Jerry Rafferty wedding? Yes. So do I need to ask permission to bring up a piece from your favorite band

is killing me? Not at all. All right. So there's a story, like it's one of my favorite, the chapter of Jack White versus Dan Auerbach is one of my favorite things that Steve's ever written. It's sort of about the proxy of the difficulty of establishing male friendship. And there's a story I believe you tell where someone comes up to you at a wedding and just completely goes punisher on you trying to challenge all of your opinions right right yeah the exact

opposite happened to me at this wedding there was this one guy who I knew like he and his wife went to the foxing hotel year show in san diego they're friends of the bride and uh he talked to me about how much he loves black country new road it was very pleasant and on the way back to the from lot they live in las vegas they were driving and him and his wife like ranked their favorite local native songs. And, you know, we kind of came up to an agreement that, you know, Gorilla Manor is very much a time and place album. Like you said, it is very 2010s Los Angeles post,

Grizzly Bear, post, I would say more kind of more of a grizzly bear fleet foxes sort of sound than, say, Vampire Weekend. Although that element is really there, it's more like a vampire weekend met at UCLA as opposed to Columbia. And Hummingbird is, in my view, maybe the best non-Denburgh. the national Aaron Dessner production. Very cool album. Oh, he produced that.

Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I'd recommend that if you haven't checked it out. Very kind of more muted and personal. And, yeah, we just kind of came to that agreement that, like, it's from that era for sure. They kept going. They kept making good music. But they've settled into more of that invisibly popular, like you described, satellite radio territory of,

of us, you know, Lord Huron also came up around the same time as them in 2010. Yay, Sayer would have been included in there had they kept going. But, you know, most people don't really think about them much, like you said, like Cold War kids. They were a little before local natives. But I thought about them in relation to, sometimes on Twitter I'll post a modern rock track billboard chart from like the late 90s, like 96, 98. And people see that and remember, I'm like, oh, man, I remember.

remember, I love that song. You know, they're not necessarily like Pearl Jam level or Nirvana level, but stuff that's like still enjoyable, like, sub-superstar. And I think, like, I guess that local natives might be that in the 2010s or 13s that we're going to look back on maybe in 10 more years and think, like, they had some hits. You know, it's not that you have, I think local natives maybe got an unfair shake from, you know, indie people because they were getting compared to, say, Fleet Fox is or Grizzling. Leberwin in reality, if you compare them to the bands that they are more in the milieu of,

like group love or Fosters the people or Cold War kids, you're like, man, that, okay, this band really did have some fucking jams. So in the same way that you can put Stone Temple pilots up against, say, you know, candle box instead of Pearl Jam and Nirvana, you know, so, yeah, local natives always have a sot-sot for them. There is like a non-zero possibility they listen to this podcast, too. so. Yeah. Well, Gorilla Manor, again, like, I was like, wow. Yeah, this, it was, I was digging it.

I had not listened to Local Natives in a long time. I mean, I was just thinking about how, like, their trajectory. Because again, like, as you've said, I mean, they've had a successful career they can tour. They put out like seven albums, did you say? Yeah, something like that, yeah. Which is a great career. If you can get that deep into a catalog. I mean, that's a big achievement.

But do you think they have a different career? if they had put out their first record in like 08 and not 2012. Because I was just thinking about how like, you know, like the national, they have a big profile still. And we can argue about like how good are their most recent records. But it's undeniable that they have a contemporary relevance that like a lot of bands from their era don't have or even a band like Fleet Foxes or, you know, like MGMT put out a record earlier this year.

Like what's the difference between them and local natives? Does it just come down to the quality of the music, or is it a matter of timing? Because I feel like the timing thing makes a big difference, just because they didn't get the kind of runway in the indie mainstream that these other bands did. It's like so many of the publications just took a heart left away from this generation of bands. And I feel like they maybe suffered as a result of that. I mean, look, I wrote the best new music review for Gorilla Manor back in 2010. So, I mean, they had a little bit of runway,

but that runway, like, disappeared very, very quickly. Yeah, they didn't get, like, the three or four album runaway, you know, that these other bands did. Like, the National had, you know, alligator, boxer, high violet, you know. And then there's the Taylor Swift stuff that happens later on. So they're a little bit different of a band, but, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like those early 2010s bands,

it was such a hard pivot away from what they were doing. in the media. But again, maybe that doesn't matter. I mean, they've had a good career regardless. Yeah, I mean, I had to fight real hard for Hummingbird to, you know, get, people were ready to turn by then, but like they didn't cooperate because like Hummingbird's a better record in my view than Gorilla Manor. But yeah, I mean, I think that if they started, I don't see them as a band.

I mean, they started as a band in 2008. And I think they were very much a product of its time, sort of like the Cloud Nothing's discussion we had last time where, you know, Dylan started out. his band making music that was influenced by Times New Viking and Vivian Girls. So they were influenced by, you know, bands that were immediately more, you know, well-renowned critically. And I think local natives did, they always had this kind of more accessible, user-friendly presentation than Fleet Foxes.

You know, Robin Pecknell can come off as like a bit of a curmudgeon sometimes, you know, grizzly bear likewise. but these guys, you know, they're personable, they're SoCal, they make really good pop songs. And, you know, look, I think that's played out in their career. And I, you know, I say this with, you know, all due respect, the sort of people who I meet at weddings who, you know, were really into reading blogs in college and kind of tailed off. This is maybe the sort of bands that they kind of take with them. You know, it's like, I remember what this band was like when I was on the cutting edge. edge and I cared and, you know, I'm going to stick with them.

And look, you can't argue with results. And yeah, it is fascinating. Like, eras that get frozen in ember for a certain audience. And that era, I think, is totally frozen for people of a certain age. You know, like, that's where I stop reading pitch for it. And it's like indie rock doesn't exist after that. Like, this is indie rock from the moment forward. So even if you're buying local natives records in 2024, it's like, well, that's one.

one of the five bands that exists. They've got Lord Huron, you got Fleet Fox. I mean, you've got, you know, local natives and maybe a few others. I think that's a very common phenomenon for people. I think that's how probably most people listen to music. Yeah, and all those people were at the, we're wanting to go to the Cindy Lee Show,

at least my friends who are like that in San Diego. That's beautiful. All right, well, let's do our fantasy draft update. This is a big day for me. I have three albums. out today that are on my team. You've got Jessica Pratt here in the pitch, which is a record I wrote about on Uprocks.

You can go check that out. I actually wrote about the record and also wrote about something that I think we've talked about on this show, which is something I really appreciate about Jessica Pratt, is that she is this enigmatic, mysterious person who does not write so-called personal songs or, God forbid, deeply personal songs.

Radically personal songs. Radically personal songs. I mean, all songs, of course, are personal. But you know what I mean. The phenomenon of writing an autobiographical song about your love life that people can read in a very obvious way, what you're talking about. That is something that has just become dominant in music,

not just indie music, pop music, whatever. And it's really refreshing to listen to a record where you feel like, oh, this person's just creating kind of like a fictional world in their songs. And it's as powerful as anything else, but it's not just a confessional about your private life or score settling against someone that wronged you in the past. That record got an 8.8 from Pitchfork as of today. This is on Thursday that we're recording. No medicaretic score yet for that one. This was my number one pick, I believe.

Yeah, and it would have been mine too. I'm expecting like a high 80 for Medicare. 91 is to me like a floor. Like honestly, I thought this was going to. I thought Cindy Lee cracked open the nine vault, but yeah, it's been, it hit the 8-8 hard cap. But yeah, I don't expect anything less than a 90 for this, which is, you know, A, deserved and B,

why it would have been my number one pick. I imagine Jeremy Larson, friend of the podcast. who wrote the review for Pitchfork, did a really good job. I just imagine him standing in the rain outside of GQ opposites being 9.9. And they just like pull down the shade. They're like, no, we can't do that again. We're giving her the 8.8. So no Metacritic score for that yet.

Waiting on that one. Another album out today. It's on my team. Mdu Mokdar. Funeral for Justice, which I love that album title. Very metal-sounding. sounding album title. And this record

is kind of like Mdu Mokdar's most metal-sounding record. I mean, it's definitely in the vein of his other records, but it feels like the most overtly rock album that he's made so far. And it's a really good record. That has an 87.

Currently, I'm Metacritic. So thank you, Mdu Mokdar, coming through big time for me. And then the third record from Jazz Mokdard. from Jazz Maestro. Can I call him a Jazz Meestro? Yeah.

I think he is. Kamasi Washington, his record Fearless Movement, currently has an 81. A little disappointed by that. I was hoping for like a mid-80, and I'm going to need it, but as long as he stays in the 80s,

I'll be fine. So right now, all of my records have come out on my team. I just don't have the metacritic score for Jessica Pratt, but otherwise, like, my team is done playing. So to review, Mdu Mokdar 87, Kamasi, Washington, 81.

Also had Maggie Rogers, don't forget about me, the overperformer on my team, 84. Great. And then we have the choke artist. Taylor Swift, last week was 77. Down to 76 right now. A disaster.

You have to keep some giving. A disaster, Ian, for me. Horrible. So I currently have, my score is 328. And that is waiting on Jessica Pratt, who will hopefully kick me up to, what, around 418, hopefully, around there. Yeah. I did a little math, and I anticipated a 91 for Jessica Pratt. So for me, I got Vampire Weekend at 88, Shabaka Hutchins at 84.

Nia Archive is my kind of flop pick at 78. So that lead, if, you know, Mdu Maktar and Kamasi Washington hold pretty steady at where they're currently at. And, you know, there aren't any other Taylor Swift pants coming out of the woodworks. This puts me at a spot where Yahya Bay and Beth Gibbons, lead singer of Portishead, would have to average like an 84-85. for me to catch you. In other words, we got a ball game. Yeah. I think it's going to be close. Yeah. It's going to be close. If Taylor Swift had delivered in the manner that she normally delivers,

I would have run away with this, I think. Yeah. I'd be comfortably ahead. If Taylor Swift could have given me like a mid-80 at least. But instead, she's pulling a LeBron in the 2011 NBA finals. against the Mabbs. Or is a better analogy, like LeBron against Boston? What was that? What year was that?

Like, where he just gave up? I think that was 09. Yeah, I think that's... Do you remember that series? Yeah, I do. He just, like, gave up, essentially in the middle, I think, game five. Big flop era for me with Taylor Swift.

So, yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Beth Gibbons, I think, you should feel pretty good about that one. I would expect an 85 from... her. Yeah, I mean, it could go either way, because I don't know how much, like, juice there is behind it. I know people will like it, but, yeah, I don't know how much hype is coming up. And I haven't seen shit about Yaya Bay. That could be a NIA Archive point in 2.0. So, yeah, I love, I like that we

got a ball game, you know, usually the past two have been kind of blowouts, but, yeah, and also these are also interesting albums to consider as well. So, yeah, yeah, I mean, I like the Jessica Pratt album? Yeah, I was going to ask about that because I wasn't sure if she was up your alley or not. I mean, because it is a singer-songwriter record, and I know you tend to be a little hit or miss on that. Right. But she's such a singular presence.

It's not, it's a singer-songwriter record, but it's more of a Jessica Pratt record. You know, she's not just doing, like, what every other popular singer-songwriter is doing. I mean, it's a definite vibe of her own. You know you're going to get something that sounds like it was recorded in a 1966. You know it's going to sound big, even though the songs are pretty quiet and strip back. And you know, it's only going to be about like 28 minutes long. That's what she's giving you. And that's what she gives you again on this record. Yeah. Jeremy, in his review, used the word

hypnagogic or hypnagogic. I've never had to say that word aloud until now. What does that mean? I've seen this word. Basically, it means like chill wave if you don't want to say chill wave. Right. Okay. Because this has become one of those words that gets banned. about. And I'm like, is there a simpler way to say this? I feel like this is like a word that someone made up at like the EMP

conference or something. I think it is. But like you either are working with that or hit or like hauntological. But it does get, like these are real words. These are real music critic words. And yeah, even for someone,

people like ourselves who have been in this game for like 20 something years, we still will never say this shit aloud until we've recorded. until we record a podcast on it. But yeah, like her album and Cindy Lee kind of both work in that same sort of hypogogic, hypnagogic whatever realm. But like Cindy Lee is obviously a lot longer. It's a lot more immersive. And Jessica Pratt to me is more kind of an escape hatch.

It's 27 minutes long. You know, and I like what it's doing. I like how it's a little bit more fuller of a sound. There are some drums in there. I find it a bit remote emotionally, which is understandable. But that being said, that's an asset, not a liability. Because, you know, whether we're talking about the big, you know, albums of like Taylor Swift or what have you, or just even something like, you know, Waxahatchy or Phoebe Bridgers,

like stuff where it's not like tabloid, but it's still, you know, draws you in. It's like about them. It's about their lives. There's a very central focus to it. And I think you've nailed it where this is not a singer-songwriter album. This is not a folk album. This is a Jessica Pratt album. Those things come around like once every five years.

And I wrote about this in my column. I just find it refreshing at this time where you have an artist who, again, is not leaning on a personal narrative. And look, I don't blame artists for this. I think, I mean, I blame the media for this, quite frankly, because I think the media puts a premium on this and how they cover artists and artists are just trying to play the game, so to speak, in terms of getting their music out there. But I get so many PR emails, like, where the gender identity of the artist is put in the subject line, or, like, the mental health status of the artist is put in the subject line. And, like, look, those are valid things to write about. But I feel like those

ideas get forwarded so much at the expense of the music. And I just find my mind. being really receptive to artists who are not writing autobiographically and are just creating a persona really that they can put out there. Like when I think about Jessica Pratt, she's like a character and a movie to me. Like she's not like a relatable person. You know, she could be a character in a movie from like 1951 or something. And I'd like that about her. And you could say the same thing about like Lana Del Rey.

Right. That's a big part of who she is. I think Mitzki has gone in that direction Perhaps because her fan base You know like her fan base was so crazy Right but certainly her last record I feel like she was really Going into that direction which I think is really

I love that record So again I just appreciate that About this album along with just Just being a beautiful record And I want to give a shout to the MDMachtar album Like you're right There's something like some riffin on there. It is metalist.

Yeah, he's shredding. Yeah, he's shredding for real. He's a shredder. And like everyone, I mean, look, yeah, if you are into shredding, and you haven't listened to MDMachter, I mean, that, that's just like, shred heaven. Yeah. And this record, again, I feel like there was a lot of that talk, uh,

when people wrote about his last record. And it just seems like he's leaned into that. It's like, okay, I'm going to be like Eddie Van Halen, or I'm going to be like, you know, Billy Gillen. Gibbons from ZZ Top, except them coming out of Africa with these jams. Yeah, it's beautiful. Really fun record. Let's go to the mailbag here.

We've got some letters in here. See if we get to all of them. Trying to clear out the mailbag here a little bit. Thank you all again for writing to us. It's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read the first letter? Yeah, so this comes out from Mary in North Carolina.

I wish we knew what part of North Carolina. It's Marie, I believe, not Mary. Ah, gotcha. Marie. Sorry about that, Marie from North Carolina. She's trying to, like, you know, maintain some anonymity here. Very Jessica Pratt-esque. Exactly.

Exactly. All right. So with an upcoming Amen-Men Dunes, is it Amen or Amen Dunes? Another name I've never said aloud. But, you know who we're talking about. With an upcoming Amen Dunes released approaching, I wanted to get a yay or nay from y'all on Amand Dunes. So we got the y'all, North Carolina.

Um, yeah, Amund Dunes. We really want to talk about it. Uh, what about you? Yeah, so the record that Marie is referring to is called death jokes. And that comes out next week. I imagine that we'll talk a bit about that record, uh, in our next episode. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I'm a big yay on Amen Dunes. I, I, I'm a fan generally of the catalog. I have to single out freedom, uh, the record that came out. I think that was 2018? Yeah. That was 2018. Yeah. One of the best indie rock records, I think, of like the last,

what's, I guess, six years. Just a great sort of widescreen, anthemic, beautiful, classic-sounding indie rock record. Just guitar jams galore on that album. And it's interesting thinking about that record in the context of A Man Dude's career, what came before it, and also having listened

to death jokes. freedom does feel like their Merryweather Postpavilion. You know, like the record that works with the mainstream, kind of puts Amen Dunes in a more commercial lane. And the record that, like, the artist really has no interest in continuing on with. Just to give a little early preview, I guess, of the death jokes conversation, I would liken that record to centipede Hertz a bit. If I'm going to continue the animal collective analogy here,

just in terms of it being the, at least what seems like a deliberately non-commercial follow-up to the big commercial record. Like if you are hoping that Amen Dunes made another freedom, I'll tell you right now, death jokes is not that. I think the record has a lot of merits on its own. but yeah it's pretty clear that Damon McMahon who's the

person behind Amen Dunes didn't have any interest in making a sequel to freedom so that's an interesting thing but yeah I don't know I do you go deep into the catalog because I'm gonna guess that you're a gay here as well yeah big yeah I'm on the same page with you

as far as freedom goes that was a record which kind of not it didn't make a trend out of it but it did bring David Gray's white ladder into the discussion. There is an element of that album in it. And that's sort of like very stadium-friendly, but also like kind of homespun drum machine thing going on. Also spiritualized in terms of just kind of interrogating big, you know, big religious themes. It sounds like a lot of stuff I like and yet there's nothing like it at all. It's got the Chris Cody production going on.

Yeah, just inexhaustible replay value. But that being, said, I like the album before it, Love, that came out in 2014. It's a much more raw and fulky. I know quite a few people who not only think Love is Amandun's true masterpiece, but also one of the best albums of 2010's full stop. That's the one for the heads, for sure. That's their, if I can continue the analogy, that's their, that's Amandun's

feels or strawberry jam. I would say it's more like their feels because like the stuff before love, that's like kind of, I guess it was called Here Comes the, Indian and renamed Ark. That stuff's like way more noisy and like sacred bones. But yeah, the new album, look, this is like real inside baseball shit, but I only have the stream, which really limits my enjoyment of albums. It just makes the process of listening to advances really annoying.

And I don't know why they still go out. It's not 2006. I'm not going to leak your Amund Dunes album. But I do think that's, I do envision that one. It's something that I'm going to need to take more time to absorb once it finally comes on streaming. I don't think it's going to amplify the Amund Dunes fan base or make them play bigger festival slots. But nonetheless,

it does sound like they were trying to do something quite different. You know, even though like they went from Sacred Bones, subpop, took five years to make the record, I think Amundunes is really doing their own thing. So like Jessica Pratt, it's not a folk album. It's not a singer-songwriter. It's an Amund Dunes album. And I just want to echo what you're saying about sending the stream only for a promo.

Publicist, come on. And maybe it's not publicist. It's probably the record label insisting on it. But that's terrible. It's a terrible way to listen to a record. Streams are wonky. Sometimes there's like a limited number of streams that you get. So like you run out of streams and you can't stream it anymore. Just send the download. At least give a download option. I mean, I often will ask for a download and if you ask you they will give it to you in a lot of cases um but yeah the stream only you're just making it harder for the person writing about it to appreciate the record so i i just think that's a self-defeating thing yeah no one's downloading no one's pirating this stuff anymore i don't know let's let's get over the streaming only thing for promos we got to move beyond that

um i'll read our next letter this comes from gunner yeah And Gunner didn't say where he is, but I'm going to guess Wisconsin. He's in because he went to UW Madison. But I don't know. Maybe he doesn't live there anymore. Anyway, Gunner, thank you for this email. Stephen and Ian, I just wanted to follow up on the Lake Mendota howdy record patio tour banter from this week's episode, actually last week's episode.

By the way, if you're going to bring up Lake Mendota in an email, I'm probably going to read it. So, well done, Gunner. I graduated from UW Madison in 2022 and helped book program the outdoor stage on the lake there. We totally had Howdy lined up to play there in the summer of 2022, and it fell through about a month or so before the show was supposed to happen. Just some relevant lore I thought you'd appreciate. I'm still in contact with my former boss slash program director that oversees the bookings and sent them the episode, Ingest, to see if they can give it another go.

I'll buy you both a pitcher on the terrace if it happens. Best Gunner. So Gunner probably still lives there if he's offering pitchers. Yeah, seriously. In Madison. Thank you for the email. That is a great stage there at UW Madison. I saw Bill Callahan play that stage.

I think it was 2011 on July 3rd. The day before the 4th of July, obviously. there were fireworks going off behind him like he was playing at night like he went on I don't know 930 10 o'clock and he was playing all the songs from Apocalypse

which was the record out at the time I think he played writing for the feeling as the first song or it was at the beginning just breathtaking one of my favorite shows of all time so program director for the Lake Mendota Terrace if you're listening to this episode

bring howdy and I don't know Ian do you drink beer I don't think you do it I don't but nonetheless I'd appreciate it all the same although I would worry about how they might be able to charge more

for the book and fee in 2024 and they could have 2023 but that's true because he's getting the podcast leverage now the public will be demanding howdy play Lake Mendota and they're going to up their fee maybe you can buy you

like a picture of like protein shake. Are you a protein shake guy? I'm not a protein shake guy. Yeah, I mean, look, there's a lot of good ice cream up in Madison. Word around town is that it's like, you know, a dairy-centric part of the country. I don't know if that's true. America's dairy land, man. America's dairy land. But I did get sent. I love that we're getting Howdy lore. Someone on Twitter sent me a picture of the acoustic release show that Howdy did in Austin where there was someone in front of the stage wearing a Pan droids t-shirt. It's like, hell yeah. Wow. The brand is strong. Love it. Love it. And you reviewed Howdy for Pitchfork. I think we talked about that last

week, but it was published, got an 8.3, a best new music. We were talking about this before recording. It feels like there's been a lot of best new music lately from Pitchfork. Maybe we're just in a bumper crop of B&Ms at the moment. But, because you know, Prats getting one. you got one for Howdy. There's that Swedish rapper. I actually like that one a lot. That name is escaping me.

So a lot of, like, just the best new musics, man. They're eating right now, man. They're eating. Eating galore. It's a buffet of best new musics. I'm with it. You know, Mdu Moktar might get one. Oh.

Yeah. Look, I think that they're all pretty, who knows if Kamasi might get there. It's a good time. Let's celebrate. But, you know, I do want them to open up the nines, man. That 8-8 is a cowards nine. Well, you know who isn't getting Best New Music? Taylor Swift, I'll tell you that much.

76, man. 76. I'll tell you what. St. Vincent's got an 89 right now. That's like Randy Moss, you know, like how. Oh, wow. It's like how Randy Moss just decided to stick it to everyone who passed on him for whatever reason. That's what St. you know, we did the Mac Jones, Taylor Swift comparison.

I think we're going to put St. Vincent, Randy Moss, or Jimmy Butler. You know, St. Vincent, to me, she's the female Beck. I think she'd take that. She's the artist. Yeah, look, you could take that as a put-down or as a compliment. And I won't tip my hand as to which side I'm going on with this. But, yeah, I just feel like, you know, Beck, early in his career, looked at as an innovative artist, someone on the cutting edge.

and then eventually became just the epitome of like an establishment critical favorite. Grammy core. Someone who maybe doesn't have like a ton of like cool street credit anymore, but you know like, okay, they're going to get a good review from certain publications, going to rack up some Grammy nominations, maybe some Grammy wins. Female Beck, that's St. Vincent to me. I'm calling that one right now. All right.

We now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendationation. Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, what to go first? Yeah, so a couple days ago, I come, I love when I come across, like, an emo album that's really making the rounds on Rate Your Music, which is, like, you know, depths of the internet, but also in a weird way, the closest thing we can get to, like, 2003-style pitchfork, where a band can come out of nowhere and, like, accumulate a fan base. I'm not saying that this is the case with this one, But it is a pleasant little record that came out a couple weeks ago from a Swedish band called Rain Recordings. The album is called Turns in Idol.

I know Rain Recordings might be a little confusing. I thought that was the record label, but the name of the project is Rain Recordings. And I wouldn't call them Emo exactly. They have a definite lo-fi Elephant 6, 2006-style indie rock with Glock and Spiel's energy to them. But that stuff's been mostly absorbed into Emo anyway. So might as well call it that. It'll definitely bring you back to, you know, Ryan Catbird posting on MP3 blogs in 2005 or 2006. And it kind of rocks a little more than that stuff too.

So I guess that's where they get Emo from. So this is kind of consolidating that Los Campesino's influence on Emo alongside like the Swedish bands that I've mentioned on this podcast before. Like, I love your lifestyle. Cool little record. I think this one might have some legs if the right people stumble upon it. So in my recommendation corner, I feel like I need to do a follow-up to some previous jokes that were made on this podcast. I don't know how long ago this was. Two or three episodes ago, I was making some jokes about band names of British post-punk bands.

And one of the band names I made fun of was English teacher. and I feel the need to come back and say that I've actually been listening to the debut album from English teacher. It's called This Could Be Texas. And I've actually been really enjoying it. So I have to call myself out for making fun of this band's band name because they're actually a good band. And I don't know if you've listened to this band yet, Ian, but, you know, they are definitely on the artier side of like the British post-punk spectrum. They don't have that like gutteral like idols thing in their music. It is definitely more of like a Prague rock type experience.

In a way, I'm tempted to compare them to Bright Country New Road, except, and I say this with all due respect, they're a lot less annoying than Bright Country New Road. You know, in the good and, you know, maybe bad senses, like they're a straighter version of that kind of Prague-y theatrical type. of British post-punk. But I don't know. I think this is a cool band. It's a cool record.

There's a lot of ideas on this album. It feels like the kind of album where if this band makes it to their sophomore release, like that could be the record where it really pays off. So I got to say, it made fun of the name. But English teacher, good band. This could be Texas. I recommend checking it out. Yeah, this is definitely one of those shack.

I owe you an apology. you I wasn't really familiar with your game things. Exactly. I gave it a little bit of listening and it's like, yeah, I could see myself getting into this. It is an album I do want to spend more time with because it does sort of remind me a Black Country New Ro. It's so wild how already that band is so massively influential and also like a reference point to talk about other bands. and yeah like I thought the black first black country new road record was one of the most annoying fucking things I ever heard and I love the second one obviously and so yeah I think that

this and also man this that's a record that's killing it on Metacritic so I'm interested in checking you out you know I wish maybe there was like a cooler name but look I love bands called Japan droids and deaf tones I can't really hold it against bands for having names that I'm sort of a little embarrassed to say aloud yeah I definitely want to hear more from this. Yeah, it was just like dry cleaning. I clowned dry cleaning before I heard that band. And I was like, I actually like this band, even though the name.

I don't like the trend of naming yourself after some mundane thing, which has been endemic to British post-punk for a while now. But they just talk about the absurdity. They talk about the absurdity of modern life. Of course, they're going to call themselves, you know, hole puncher or things. That's actually more of a metal name, but you know what I mean. Right. Right. At any rate, good record, good band. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indicast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and

hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.