Indiecast - New Albums by Lana Del Rey, Boygenius + The Hold Steady, Plus: The Best Sophomore Albums Ever

Episode Date: March 31, 2023

At the start of this week's episode, Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen try to come to terms with the fact that Ed Sheeran doesn't think music critics are necessary. Ultimately, they concede that the man has a point — after all, if music critics had any power, Ed Sheeran would not be a hugely successful pop star (:26).In the banter segment, they talk about the upcoming tour by Smashing Pumpkins, Interpol and Stone Temple Pilots, which is like Pavement's "Range Life" come to life (7:02). They also talk about the new album by The Hold Steady, The Price Of Progress (14:17).In the mailbag, a reader asks for their favorite sophomore albums. Can they interest you in a little record called Nevermind? How about The Bends? Actually, the letter writer stumps for Weekend In The City, because it is now Indiecast law that Bloc Party is mentioned in every episode (20:44). Finally, the meat of the episode reviews two big spring indie releases by Lana Del Rey (32:20) and Boygenius (44:11).In Recommendation Corner (56:23), Ian talks about the American Football side project Lies, while Steve raves about the Irish folk (with a post-rock twist) band Lankum.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 132 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indie Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we discuss new albums by Lana Del Rey and Boy Genius. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He wants Ed Sheeran to know that music critics matter. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

In a very dark place, imagining some 48-year-old EMP music critic making a t-shirt, like, a Theereal Lives Matter or Angular Lives Matter or something like that. Like clapping back, clapping back at Ed Shearren in the most, like, cornball music critic way possible to show, like, solidarity. You know, like, because who are, what are, what, what is the music critic community except, like, a notoriously solid front? Yeah, so there was an interview this week that Rolling Stone did with Ed Shearin, and one of the poll quotes was he was talking about how music critics don't matter in the age of streaming because you can just listen to anything you want and make up your own mind. You don't need these pencil-pushing poindexters dictating to you what you like.

And there was a reaction from the music critic. community, of course, not pleased with this. Because, you know, we're under siege anyway. You know, publications, websites, falling left and right. You know, it's hard to find a job these days. And now you're one of the most streamed artists in the world, taking shots.

I have to say that if I were Ed Sheeran, I would feel the exact same way. Because his career is evidence of the irrelevance of music critics. if music critics really mattered, Ed Shearin would not have a career. Instead, he is one of the most dreamed artists in the world. Is he the most?

I mean, I know he's like in the top five. He might be. I think I saw something like that the weekend might be, but either way, like, yeah, music critics like don't matter to Ed Shearin. Something like this is just such a dull, predictable punching down. Like, in order for some story like this

to have like real spice for me. It needs to be like a pop artist such as a Caroline Polichick or like Phoebe Bridger saying the critics are irrelevant. Like just something that, you know, like causes music writers had to burst like scanners as they try to figure out like, oh my God, do I clap back at this artist? Or do I, you know, continue to genuflect to them? I mean, I made a joke about it when I saw. I said that I'm going to tell my kids that Ed Shearin,

doesn't want them to eat. That was my joke. That was a joke, though. I'm not actually offended. Yeah, neither am I. That Ed Sheeran doesn't like music critics. I will say that I do think that without music critics, there would be no hashing of trends.

None. Out there. So I think in that respect, in the trend hashing industry, music critics do provide value for the public. Other than that, you know, who knows? But again, like, what is anyone worth in this world? Like, what do any of us do really that at the end of the day matters? You know, some of you listening, you may be a teacher.

Okay, you matter. Maybe you're a firefighter. You matter. Most of us, we're just, you know, trafficking in bullshit. You know, it doesn't really matter. It's not life or death stuff. But, you know, the bullshit puts money. in our pocket, you know, and I, I'm a huge prevarer bullshit. I've, I feed my kids with music critic money.

I own a house bought with music critic money. And I just don't want Ed Shearhan to mess with that. Ed, just give me this, okay? You're a rich man. I'm sorry, critics haven't been nice to you. By the way, I was on a flight last week, and Delta Airlines, they play like the same songs when you're on the runway. So there was an Ed Sheeran song. It was like an acoustic version of it, which was awful. Aren't all of his songs like an acoustic version of it? Again, like, I'm just...

But it said, but I shazammed it. So I was like, what the, what is this song? This is awful. And it said the song title, which I can't remember, I could actually go into my phone, I guess, and see what the last thing I shazammed was. It had the title and it had acoustic in parentheses. So I assume...

It's like if the original Ed Sheeran song was too hard for you, this is like the more soft, palatable version. But there was another song that was played constantly that was even worse than Ed Shearin. It's the one Republic song that's on the Top Gun Maverick soundtrack. Do you know the song? I watched Top Gun Maverick actually this past Saturday and shout to what is supposed to be Coronado in San Diego.

But now, I'm only familiar with, like, the Lady Gaga song from that movie and also the replications of, like, you know, danger zone. So the Ed Shearin song was Shivers. Got it. Not to be confused with the Cole play song, Shiver, which is much better. Yeah, no, no, which sounds like Slayer compared to the Ed Shearin song. The one republic song is called I Ain't Worried. Which, I mean, I think that seems to cut against Top Gun Maver. but I mean, you know, the whole plot line of it.

I think it plays during, like, when they play football on the beach, that scene. Oh, God, yeah. Because, you know, because the song, yeah, it's called I Ain't Worried. Okay. That is a carefree part of this thing. Man, I love how you brought up Top Gun Maverick because it's like, you know, like Air Force pilots and music critics. We're all, like, we're both in the same plane, like facing down obsolescence, you know, until they get, you know, whatever the equivalent of Top Gun taking out some nameless, you know, plutonium factory is.

Like, we just get one last big score before we ride off into the sunset. Yeah, and then it's back to the beach playing football. Yeah. To this horrible One Republic song. I'm telling you, listeners, look up I ain't worried by One Republic. This is an awful song, and I had to hear it probably a half dozen times last week. It was rough. Um, so we have to talk about, um, you know, because we, we joke sometimes about how we manifest

things on the show. And I don't, I don't recall us ever talking about smashing pumpkins touring with Stone Temple pilots and Interpol. Have we ever talked about that even as a joke? I don't think so. No, but apparently it's happening. Yeah, I've been practicing doing range life in a Paul Banks voice. Um, you know, I've lost my nerve and I won't do it.

but this is not the first time smashing pumpkins and interpol toured together. I don't think we talked about the world as a vampire show in Mexico City that happened this month. That was like a joint it was like a joint festival

with a couple of wrestling associations. Did you see this? No, I missed this. I'm pretty sure it's like a sci-op. I cannot confirm that this thing actually happened, but the lineup involved at the top Smashing Pumpkins

and Interpol like two bands that may actually be bigger in Mexico than they are in America these days also turnstile in Death Heaven

and Peter Hook were on the bill and it was two wrestling federations NWA and AAA that had apparently never met before it looked fucking awesome

like shout to Billy Corgan Were people wrestling What's that Were people wrestling during Were there like wrestling matches going on during the show

You see I can't confirm I can't confirm that one where the other, my impression is that some of it is music and some of it was wrestling. I mean, if people could, I don't know, do a cage match to a bullet with butterfly wings, that would be like so, man, that would be that, that would be extremely meta and awesome. But I don't think that's what went down. I can't seem to find footage of this thing. I still think it's a deep fake. I think a good wrestling duo would be obstacle one and obstacle two.

could be a wrestler's name Obstacle 1 and obstacle 2. I think that could be kind of badass. But I feel like we're burying the lead here, which is that smashing pumpkins and Stone Temple Pilots are touring together. As you alluded, it conjures the song Range Life by Pavement,

the song where Stephen Malcolmis famously disses both of these bands. And not even in Stephen Malcolm's wildest dreams in 1994. Could he have imagined that, these bands would eventually tour together. Although I'm curious with STP what the status is of their lead singer situation. Yeah, I don't know that one.

Because obviously Scott Weiland tragically passed away in 2015. He was already fired from the band when he died. And then a few years after that, Chester Bennington, you know, another just horrible tragedy takes his own life. I think that was 2017. So just like a sad situation in this band with singers.

And I know I interviewed the DeLeo brothers, I think in 2017 or 18, something like that, when they were doing like a cattle call for singers. Like just saying, hey, send us a video. And, you know, you can audition for this huge 90s band. I mean, they obviously have a singer now. The guy's name is Jeff Gutt, and he looks a lot like Wylan. It's not like, you know, it's not like Allison Chains where, you know, it's very clearly not Lane Staley. And Allison Chains, like, new Allison Chains, they play that band a lot at the 24-hour fitness I go to, as well as, like, the new Red Hot Chili Pepper songs.

That doesn't seem like good workup music to me, Alice and Chains. I don't know. I just feel like I want to, you know, sit on a couch. Crawl into a whole die. Yeah, exactly. Although I don't know. I guess man in the box. Yeah.

You know, I can get you going. Wood, yeah. Wood's good. Them bones. I mean, you could do it. But like, for whatever reason, this, this gym plays, like, a lot of, like, altar bridge. just like all these bands that are still making music that you're like, oh, look at that. They play a lot of slightly stupid as well.

You know, you got to pander to the San Diego audience. Oh, man. I wonder what, you know, if you had like a map of where people are streaming slightly stupid. Is it just like a huge red dot in San Diego and then like nothing anywhere else? Are they big elsewhere in California? I had never heard of this band until I moved to San Diego. I was aware of them because in another life, I was a city editor for an old weekly,

and I'd have to put together the calendar. Oh, yeah. And this was in Milwaukee, and I feel like slightly stupid would periodically come to Milwaukee. So I guess there's some streaming dots in Milwaukee. for slightly stupid. San Diego is the obvious stronghold. Milwaukee's like a satellite stronghold for slightly stupid.

And again, they're like a sublime ripoff, right? I think so. Like, I, you know, more reggae. Yeah, I think they're, I think they got like kind of more of like a reggae vibe going on, you know, compared to, like, they are extremely San Diego, like to the point where POD is basically the strokes. You know what I mean? Is POD still doing it? I feel like they are. I feel like every now and again you'll like see,

hey, before tonight's Padres game and we have a Fernando Tatis Jr. Bobblehead, come catch POD at the Gallagher Square at Peco Park. I might be making this up, but if I'm not that far off. So POD,

don't tell me, is that short for, is it profits of destruction? Something like that? I think it's payable on debt. but... Oh, that's it. Okay.

Because they had like a Christian vibe, right? Oh, extremely Christian vibe. Right. Yeah. Shout out to satellite. That had some bangers. I like the song they did with Eka Mouse. That was a good song.

Oh, my God. I have nothing to contribute to that conversation. I don't know any POD. You have to know boom. I do. Here comes the boom. I mean, come on, man. I mean, don't front here.

If you played it for me, I might remember it, but I can't. I can't con- Youth of the nation. Yeah, nothing. Oh, man. Nothing. I was avoiding that music actively at the time. Now I would investigate it out of curiosity.

But like in 2002, I was, you know, avoiding that religiously. I have to ask you about the hold steady. The hold steady. I want to talk about POD. Well, we'll have to devote a whole. we'll do a POD episode slash slightly stupid. We'll dive into the San Diego music scene.

Actually, Stone Temple Pilots, another San Diego band. I want to talk to you about the Hold Steady because they have a new album out today. There's a lot of albums out today. And we're not going to even cover all the significant records that are coming out today.

Like you wrote about the new pornographers. They have a new album out. I did. We're not going to talk about that, though. I don't think. Yeah, I think we can talk. about them vis-a-vis boy genius and supergroups in general. But, yeah, if we really wanted to get 40-something critic with it, we would dedicate this entire

episode of The Hold Steady and new pornographers. Just getting really 2005 with it. Well, you know, I don't want to spend a ton of time on the Hold Steady because I feel like our positions on this band are relatively established and clear and we'd just be reiterating opinions that our audience probably already knows, which is that I like the Hold Steady. and you do not like the Hold Steady. And I am slightly curious if you've heard this new album and if you have any opinions on it,

it's called The Price of Progress, by the way. Because this is like part of this era of the band where they've been working with Josh Kauffman, who you may know from the folk rock band, Bonnie Light Horseman, like good band. But he also does a lot of production work and he's worked with the Hold Steady before. You really got into the band's orbit

because he was working with Craig Finn on his solo records. And what Kaufman has essentially done is help to broaden the sonic palette of this band. You know, the Hold Steady, of course, known as like a bar band, heavy guitar riffs, Franz Nicolese piano, this kind of Springsteen-Seger-type vibe. And on this new album, you can hear them moving away from that a little bit. there are synthesizers, there's like organ, there's like electric keyboards. It's a more sort of diverse musical tableau, if you will, although at the same time there are lyrics that reference Robert Plant and LeBron James and, you know, typical

hold steady stuff. And I'm a fan of this record. I'm actually kind of amazed at how this band, it seemed like they were essentially left for dead. in the mid-2010s. They went on this long hiatus. And then at the end of the 2010s, they end up coming back, and they've put out,

I think this is the third record that they've put out since resuming activity. I think they've all been like strong records. I feel like they've had like a strong second act, along with, I think, Craig Finn really finding his footing as a solo artist and putting out, I think, some quite good album. So I'm just wondering,

have you changed your mind at all about this band? as they matured or are you still in the same boat? I mean, I'm, I got to respect how they right now seem like the kind of band that they always wanted to be from the beginning, which is just putting out records, cult band, not really getting caught up in any sort of like broader narrative. And I just, I just got to point out the fact that like if you look up Josh Kaufman online, the first person you're going to see is a guy who won season six of the voice. as a member of Usher's team. So, yeah, not that Josh Kaufman.

But, yeah, I mean, I'm, like, interested in the possibility of being, like, just a total contrarians. Like, yeah, I like the hold steady, but only the late period, hold steady. Like, no, man, this stuff is, like, as good, if not better than Separation Sunday or what have you. But, you know, what I'm interested in kind of seeing with the Hold Steady now is, you you know, with the Wednesday album coming out next week, we're seeing a, if not like a reassessment,

maybe a re-appreciation of drive-by trucker is a band that has a pretty similar career arc to the hold steady. I mean, is there like a possibility of this band, like kind of taking a central part of the conversation similar to that? I mean, is there like a young band that you can imagine coming up and doing, I don't know, maybe, like, just what the whole steady are doing, but like just slightly different

in a way that seems a little more zoomer. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I like how we're pivoting to the drive-by truckers here a little bit. You know, we're hitting all of like my wheelhouse bands here. What's interesting with the Wednesday situation is that there's a clear influence

that drive-by truckers have on that band, but they're taking it in a different direction. Yeah. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that fronted by a woman and it has like a woman perspective it isn't like guys and plaid shirts and beards

which from a critical perspective is probably the last thing that will ever get like laudatory reviews in this environment so yeah I think with the band like the old steady if there were if there was like a female

Craig Finn you know who could sing who could address the type of stuff that he addresses but from like a female perspective, I think that would be something a lot of critics would respond to, as opposed to someone maybe doing it in a more straightforward kind of way. Yeah, because I mean, the whole steady, if they, if they just decided to like say fuck it and play fest amongst like a lot of those like dudes rock bands, like, you know, Spanish love songs or whatever that like clearly love them, yeah,

they would kill it. But yeah, I do think that there's sort, I do think there's room for a take on like what the hold steady do. And, you know, maybe you could argue that dry cleaning sort of do that. But that's a bit of a stretch. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it would be interesting to hear a dry cleaning record that had like Jimmy Page-style guitar riffs on that. I might. I might fuck with that.

That might be the next iteration of that band. Let's get to our mailbag segment. Thank you all for writing in. We are always happy to hear from our listeners. We got a lot of emails actually in the past week, including letters from people who were unhappy about us. I don't think we trashed South by Southwest, but we were sort of like me on South by Southwest,

and we did get some emails from people saying that they had a great time there, which I totally believe, you know, because there's a ton of music there. A lot of it is inexpensive or free. So it's a good time. don't want to rain on anyone's parade and just want to acknowledge that we hear you, South by Southwest fans. And if South by Southwest wants to fly us out and set us up in a hotel and have us do like a show on location,

we're totally open to that too. So don't take our opinions on South by Southwest as a vector of the music industry as our full opinion on it. We are very open to getting on a plane and selling out. You have Doritos wants to fly us out there and set us up in the Dorito tent. I don't know if they still have that. Like I remember when I was at South by Southwest, they had like these inflatable, like, gargantuan-sized bags of Doritos. Oh, yeah.

Because I feel like Doritos sell themselves. I don't know why you have to promote Doritos at South by Southwest. But these were very hip Doritos. You know, these were Indie Rock Doritos. Do you want to read our letter here this week? I do. So this mailbag comes from, appropriately enough, math in Austin, Texas. So, oh, here we go.

Here we go. Hi, Steve and Ian. This is sort of related to Steve's recent debut albums list. Stealing a rare great Twitter prompt, that's all caps, great Twitter prompt, from Jesse Brennam on Twitter for this one. What is the greatest sophomore album? Not the greatest album that happens to be an artist's second, but the greatest sophomore album. My vote is for Black Parties a Weekend in the City.

It has the two most important sophomore albums components. First, it's something of a sonic departure from their excellent debut, Silent Alarm. Second, it's not as good as the debut, which almost makes it all the more beloved by the fans of the band who wanted it to be. To expand on the second point, I bought Weekend in the City

on release, had been eagerly awaiting to follow the Silent Alarm and was a little sad I didn't love it as much. But I felt compelled to defend it from the less glowing reviews that received and having paid money for it, one of the later albums might have, people might have done that for. I listened to it a ton to the point of carving out a soft spot for it. So curious to hear your thoughts. Best math, Austin, TX. Okay, there could not be a more egregious ass-kissing email for Ian than this one. Not a burner, not a burner account.

We're dropping another block party reference. This is like how many weeks in a row have, I guess maybe just two weeks in a row. It feels like more than that, because we're You brought up silent alarm last week in the context of my debut album's column. I didn't put silent alarm on the list. Now it comes up again, and now we're talking about the second block party album. Is there a third one? Oh, absolutely. It's called Intimacy.

I reviewed it. It's not very good. Okay. I have to say, I don't really understand Maff's criteria here for, because he's making a distinction between second album and sophomore album. and from what I can tell, he's saying that a great sophomore album should be worse than the debut. Is that a criteria here?

I don't really understand. A criteria. What he means? A criterion. Of that. So I don't know. I don't really understand what he means. I'm going to set that aside.

I feel like the obvious answer here, and it's boring, but I can't think of a better example is Nevermind. Oh, yeah. Nirvana? I mean, bleach, it's a fine debut. But, like, if we're talking about leveling up,

like, never mind seems like the ultimate example of a band who's like a good band. And then they just make a record where like every song is perfect, where it just sounds like a greatest hits album. And it makes them one of like the biggest bands of all time. I don't know what else you would say for that. I mean, there are other examples that. that might be second to that. And let me see if I can interest you in any of these albums.

The Ben's by Radiohead. That's the obvious one for me because I think that, I like that as a choice because like the first album, I know we have like a soft spot for Pablo Honey, but that's the example of a band that just completely like, they build off a popular first record, but also just completely change the view of them. Like, you know, like, you,

it's hard to imagine them getting it to okay computer without the bends. And I think that's why it's valued just as much for what it led to as, you know, what it actually is. I'd still give the edge to Nevermind because it's never mind. Oh, yeah. You know, considered one of the greatest albums of all time. Again, it's a boring choice, but, but yeah, the Ben's obviously a strong choice. Can I interest you in Siamese Dream by Spansion Pumpkins? That one to me is a little, I think, maybe like a better choice than,

Never mind because, you know, bleach is, I don't know how big quote unquote Nirvana was at that time, but I like the idea that it should be following a popular first record where there's like real expectations. Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys. And I interested in that record coming after Licensed to Ill, which I feel like that's still my favorite Beastie Boys album. But Paul's Boutique, obviously, totally reinvents them, much more sophisticated. record. The low-end theory, Tribe Called Quest,

good supplemental record. A couple of underdog records we're talking about here. Doolittle by the Pixies. Van Morrison's Astro Weeks. That's only a second album? That's a second record. I thought it was like his 12th or something like that.

No. I thought that was like back in the 60s where you know, you make like 12 albums before one actually hits. Well, no. Well, he had, he was in a bank called them and he had some weird record contract things going on but that's considered a second record um i mean if if i was going to go the maf route here our friend in austin because he's going with a record that isn't like a canonical sophomore record but it's he has like a soft spot

for it uh i'll go recovering the satellites by by counting crows the indycast hall of famer yeah good choice that'll be like my weekend in the city type choice it's actually a very very I do like that one. It's kind of like the darker, edgier counting crows. Exactly. Exactly. That's a good choice. I think we also have to point out that in the original prompt by Jesse Brennam,

and he brings up Pinkerton by Weezer as the quintessential sophomore album. So if we're taking that as the metric of an album that, like, builds on expectations by just going a completely different route, then I think MGMT's congratulations has to be considered. Oh, yes. But, I mean, if we're taking more contemporary, I mean, there are just so many ways to talk about, like, what makes a sophomore or a second record great, you know, because there are the, you know, Pablo Honey to the Ben's type leaps like Death Heaven Sunbather or, you know, the hotel years and home like no place is there are, you know, an album that I often call my favorite of all time, Jimmy World's Clarity, which is sort of like a bleach or a Siamese dream kind of building off. a good but like in retrospect not totally great uh debut i mean we could also good kid mad city and blonde sort of kind of count like because then do you consider like mixtapes to be a part of it um but you know for math point look if we're gonna like be on math's territory i don't think weekend in the

city is as great of a sophomore sophomore album as it's a partner in crime uh Some Loud Thunder by Clap Your Hand Say, yeah. One of the greatest sophomore album beginnings of recent memory where they just put the most completely shitty recording at the top, scaring off the squares. And I think it's actually a more interesting one than the beginning. But, you know, this one is just so hard to, it's, on some level, it's a lot easier because, you know, we've named some of the best albums ever made. but a debut, you kind of know what you mean by a debut. There's something like magical about that, that it makes it easier to put into a list than sophomore albums

because there's a lot of ways you can make a great sophomore album. But I think that a debut, you know, for your sake, Steve, it was probably a lot easier to make a best debut album's list than a best sophomore albums one. Yeah, I mean, I think if you were going to do a sophomore album's list, I would wade it towards albums where the second album is clearly better than the first and maybe the best album that the artist made. It's one thing, you make a great debut and then your second album's great.

Well, it's like, well, okay, it's a great sophomore album, but it doesn't seem as significant, again, as a record like Nevermind or The Bens, where they are clearly leveling up. So I would wait it that way. in which case the weekend in the city might not be the best example. But, you know, Maff, you do you. Yeah. You love Block Party. We keep talking about Block Party on the show.

We'll find a way. What was the name of the third record? Intimacy. We'll probably talk about intimacy next week. We'll find some excuse. Actually, you know what? What we're going to do. I think we actually talked about not last episode, but quite recently, like,

Indie Rock's remix albums, which Silent and Alarm remix might be the best one ever made. Wow. Yeah. What else would even be in the running? I can't think of other remix albums in the indie rock realm. Either way, block party. I keep hearing them, and also we talk about with like Paramore, you know, bringing them on tour. Like, these are great times for block party life or such as myself.

You know, maybe not so much for like the actual people in the band, especially Kelly, who seems to really, really dislod. like his old albums nowadays, but you know what? We all got to pay the bill somehow. All right, let's get to the meet of our episode, and we missed the half hour guarantee, unfortunately. Got too busy talking about slightly stupid there. Yeah, I'm not making any guarantees when the subject matter switches to POD. Yeah, I think we officially went over when you kept throwing out POD song titles,

thinking that I would recognize one and there wasn't one. That could have went on for another 10 minutes, I feel like. But anyway, here we are at the meet. And the first album we're going to talk about is the latest from Lana Del Rey, the record is called. Did you know that there's a tunnel under Ocean Boulevard?

This record came out last week. This is the ninth Lana Del Rey record. And even before we talk about this record, I just want to reflect on that a little bit because I think I'm at the age now, like where 2012 seems easier to remember than like last week.

You know? Like I can remember 2012 vividly, but like what I had for dinner last night is completely wiped from my memory banks. So it doesn't feel like Landa D'Lay has been around long enough to have nine records.

And by the way, I'm not counting the spoken word album she put out in 2020. just studio musical albums. This is her ninth. So she has this big body of work here. Am I insane here? Isn't it?

I mean, I didn't even say this with the Hold Steady. You know, this is their 20th anniversary, the Hold Steady. That's insane to me. That something that meant a lot to me in my 20s and early 30s is now multiple decades old. But I don't know. Are you at all surprised that we have this much Lana Del Rey content at this point? You sound very ill-suited to the remember-some guy's lifestyle if you can. I don't know if you're built for this shit.

I'm just saying, no, what I'm saying is that I can remember the guys because the past seems more vivid to me than like the recent past. Oh, absolutely. That part is definitely true. And I've talked about this many, many a time where when you're celebrating a, like the longest period. of time in the past is like four years ago because you know the recent past can be pretty easy to grasp and also when by the time the 10th anniversary or a 20th anniversary comes around you've had enough time to kind of process things and you know get a sense of like where things stand in the greater context but like 2018 uh i can't i can't grasp that year for the life of me you know

I have vague memories of like, you know, resistance, core and, you know, like all sorts of like Shits Creek merchandise in the stores. But otherwise, you're absolutely correct. And, you know, like with Lada L'Re, I mean, I do think that we are at a point. I think this album really drove at home for me. Like you said, it's her ninth album where, you know, this is obviously still a big deal record. But it's not a at the center of the scum. if that makes any sense. Like I think the days of her putting out candidates for maybe album of the year are gone.

In the same way that like you would say the same for, I don't know, the weekend or like Tyler the creator. Like this is like the, these are like the legacy acts. Like the people who had an odd future poster or a born die poster in their dorms or a blonde poster in their dorm for Frank Ocean. Like these are the people like guiding the discussion right now. Like these are the legacy. and I mean, the same way that I'm impressed by the whole steady building such a body of work,

I'm kind of like this is a huge catalog that if I ever get like on a whim, I just might deep dive into it because one of the things that stands out about this album, and like, you know, to contradict Ed Shearin, I've actually gotten a lot out of the people writing about this record, talking about just how much lore there is, stuff that I completely miss because I am not at all a lot ahead. Yeah, you know, the thing I found myself appreciating during this record is how Lana Del Rey really is like one of the last old-fashioned rock stars in the sense that she doesn't seem at all interested in being normal.

Even when she like presents herself as normal, it never really feels normal. And I don't think that she's interested in being like relatable or you know showing some sort of like human side to what she does. She is just like this persona and this iconic type figure. And you know, maybe we'll revisit this when we get to the Boy Genius album because that's clearly a different generation of rock and pop stars where it does feel more about, okay, I connect with this artist as a person. I understand or I feel like I understand who they are. With Lana Del Rey, I don't think there is anything like that. She's sort of like, you know, like an Axel Rose type person. You know, like where Axel Rose obviously writes about himself,

but he's like larger than life in a way that like you can't really think of him as like just a dude. And I really appreciate that about Lana Del Rey. And I will say I think this record is. a mini comeback for her after the two post-Norman fucking Rockwell albums, chemtrails over the country club and Blue Bannisters, which I wasn't a huge fan of either of those albums. They feel, I think, like hangover records from this triumph

that was Norman fucking Rockwell, huge critical hit. I think people look at that now as like her defining statement. Although having recently written that debut album's column, I have to give props to Born to Die as just like a record where she totally nailed the Lana Del Reyness of Lana Del Rey immediately. And just the audaciousness of that record, I give a lot of credit to that album in retrospect. I got to say, though, I really wish Lana Del Rey would hire a drummer. There's so little drums on this record. Because this record, we haven't even gotten, I think, to the length of this album.

This is a long album. I think it's like 77 minutes. I've done some math. And if you play this album side by side with the entire Joyce Manor catalog, by the time you finish the fourth Joyce Manor album, Cody, you might get you're just at the song where she wraps. So this album, I believe, is like 80 minutes long, which, you know, on some level, it's like, whatever, it's streaming. You're supposed to take it piece by piece. But, you know, the Friday morning, it actually came out. I would see people, God bless these people who just show so much dedication.

They're saying, yeah, I'm three listens in and, you know, I'm only beginning to crack the code here. I just, I'm fascinated by people who have that kind of time, you know, to like, To get real intentional listening to it. I'm kind of envious. I think it's, for me, I mean, that would be my criticism of it, is that this album, I think, is at least 20 minutes too long. Yeah. And because, like, rhythmically, there's not much going on on this record.

It's very stately, beautiful music that, again, has no real rhythm tracks to it, with some exceptions. You know, it makes those 80 minutes, like, feel. a little bit longer than 80 minutes. But I do think the high points of this record I would put with anything in her catalog. I think I've talked about this before, but the single A&W I think is a great song. Like that immediately brings to my Norman fucking Rockwell. Like the great songs from that record.

I really like the Father John Misty duet, you know, which is perfect. Yeah. Have they duetted before? Think so? I feel like they, I feel like they have. I mean, I do, it's so obvious, like, how much of a mirror they are for each other. I think it's kind of weird when she brings on other artists to kind of like puncture, to kind of like puncture the Lana Del Rey bubble, you know, like, the like John Battiste interlude. I think, like, when we talk about like how long this album is, I think we also have to point out the fact. fact that the interludes are like four minutes long. Yeah, they're not interludes. I don't know why we're calling it interludes. Because she's calling it interludes.

Yeah, I know. That's what I mean, though. Like, Lana's pulling a fast one on us with that. Because she's like, no, the album's not that long. I have these interludes on there. But Lana, these are like song-length interludes. You know, interludes are like a one-minute long thing. That should be it.

There's the song with Bleachers, too, where like Jack Antonoff is doing this, like... Not a fan. I don't know. what he's kind of like a Leonard Cohen type voice it's very odd um but again I don't know I think with Lana del Rey with all of her records you have to be you have to buy into her as an idea you know and if you're with her as an idea like you said all the lore on this record all the mythology the self mythology going on um you know it's the same argument I would make for

the doors if I could bring the doors in. I bet she would like that comparison. I'm sure, look, I have no doubt in my mind that she's a Jim Morrison fan. There's no question that she loves Jim Morrison. It's a similar thing with him where if you appreciate what he's doing and even the ridiculousness of what he's doing. Especially the ridiculousness of what he's doing.

Especially, then you're going to be on board and with what the doors are doing. I think Alana Al-Rae has a similar thing where, again, it's this. larger than life, self-mythologizing, you know, myth-making going on. And I really like that, because I just feel like we don't get a lot of that, you know? And I like how she's not interested in being normal. You know, we need more rock and pop stars

who are like that, I think. Yeah, I just do appreciate just how fucking weird. Like, I don't think it could go without saying, like, how fucking weird this album is. and you know it's great because like we talked about filler on one of the previous episodes and boy this would be a great album to discuss it through because to me it's not the john batiste interlude or it's not the rap song that's filler like it's just like this stuff in the middle that i sort of forget about and like i do i don't know maybe like one of these days i'm just going to like take off

music writing for a year and just go full on like hold steady and londa del ray just like catching up on the lore outside the context of, you know, the way it's discussed online. You know, one album of hers that I like that I feel like is underrated is the one that Dan Auerbach did with her, ultraviolence. I think that's, I think that was the one right after Born to Die. I feel like that one doesn't get talked about a lot. That's when she was kind of doing this like Roots Rocky type. With Dan Auerbach.

Because you're bringing Dan Auerbach, you know, you get like the bluesy guitar riffs and stuff. and it had like that roadhouse Twin Peaks the Return vibe to it which is a great feel for Lana Del Rey and she hasn't really done that in that way since then so I don't know

I'm gonna stump for ultraviolence there as a good Lana Del Rey record let's get to our next record and it's called The Record and it's by Boy Genius and Boy Genius of course is the Supergroup comprised of B.B. Bridgers,

Lucy Dacus, and Julian Baker. You may remember, they put out an EP in 2018, a six-song album, and then they went on to become big indie rock stars. You know, we're talking

about remembering 2018. You know, obviously, all three had careers at this point, but they weren't as famous as they are now. I actually had all three of them on my old podcast. Yes. Celebration Rock, which I don't think I could swing today. I don't think they would come on an indie rock podcast like they did back then.

And I was thinking about the difference between this album and that EP. Because when that EP came out, it almost felt like a lark. Between, you know, these three emerging singer-strongwriters coming together. They have a funny band name. They're posing like Crosby Stills and Nash. on the cover of the record. It had kind of a low-key charm to it, whereas this album is like big indie personified.

It's on Interscope, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. This is like a superstar record. And, you know, I reviewed this album for Uprocks, and my review was mixed, maybe mixed to negative, probably leaning a little more on the negative side, although I like the record,

I like parts of the record. I think like the first half of it, is quite good. And that is the half that includes a lot of the singles that were released ahead of the record. But I really feel like this album, it's another example of,

you know, what happens, I think, in every supergroup where you have all of these great components that come together that in a way kind of cancel each other out. And it ends up being less interesting in a supergroup context than each of the parts are on their own. And that's the impression that I got.

And I have to say that I feel a little bit lonely in that impression because the reviews of this record have been very, very laudatory. Yeah. When I googled the album, I didn't see anything less than this is a spectacular triumph

other than my review. And it's funny because on the Google search, The headline of my review was on this album, Boy Genius doesn't add up to the sum of its parts. And then like the next story on Google News is, Boy Genius adds up to more than the sum of its parts. So there's like a disagreement about the math. Google is the land of contrasts, in summation. But I don't know. You know, there's something about this record that feels a little overblown to me and cliched.

I think that some of the songs aren't that strong. and like there's one song in particular called We're in Love. Right. Where I feel like it's a blatant attempt to like make you cry. You know, like in a way that I don't feel like they do on their proper records. There's a sort of intimacy to their albums that I think is lost here. And I don't know. It just feels forced at times to me. And I also feel like by having their songwere,

running styles overlap, it actually makes them feel less unique. At some point, this album starts to feel a little repetitive to me in terms of the lyrics in a way that I don't think is true on their individual albums. Am I crazy here? Do you love this record too? Or do I, am I totally alone on the island of being kind of ambivalent about Boy Genius at this point? Well, I'm looking at it up right now. It appears that Slant Magazine shares your mission.

review as does clash. Oh, Slant? Yes. Me and Slant? Yeah, you and Slant. You're on the island right there. Welcome to your island. We're on ambivalent island with Boy Genius.

We should say that the Pitchfork Review hasn't gone up yet when we've recorded this, but it'll probably be up, I imagine, when this episode posts. So I'm curious to see where they fall. It almost seems like people love Boy Genius more than even like the individual album. album, even more than the albums put up by the individual artist, which is crazy to me. That's just, that's the part that's bizarre to me, because that implies that they love this more than they love Phoebe Bridgers, and I think we've talked about this on the podcast a lot. I mean, is this album better than Punisher?

No. Is it better than Home Video? Is it better than Little Oblivians? I would say no by like a significant origin. I think that the most recent. solo records by these artists are more interesting and they're better showcases for what they do well on their own. Yeah, I think with this, and this kind of ties into what I'm going to talk about when my piece on the Wednesday album comes up is that you can't underestimate the appeal of people publicly enacting friendship, especially after the past couple of years we have. like in the same way, like Wednesday seems like a really good hang and that kind of plays into the music.

A lot of the praise I've seen about this record is kind of a projection of, you know, how they feel about these three very talented artists, you know, operating. Like the name itself just kind of tips its hand as to, well, we're challenging this idea of supergroups and the competition of, you know, male genius and like the way, you know, female artists are and walking pit against each other. other like it's a force for good now that with this album i got a this comparison like seems super obvious to me in a way that it should have been all along but um in the same way this album is being like praised to a degree which i find almost like i don't know psychotic i think about when i wrote a i wrote like a three thousand word nine point oh review for run the jewels two back in 2014. Wow.

And what... Let's try to remember that. Let's go back to that Ian Cohen. Oh, gosh, man. Like, oh, man, that review, I got in some trouble with that one. And rightfully so. But, yeah, I think about, like, run the jewels, like how, you know, I like the music, but it was just so awesome to see LP and Killer Mike, these artists that I already, like,

publicly enact this friendship of theirs, which just seems really legit and earnest. and I was about, like, I was as high on that album as a lot of people seem to be on this one right now. And like from the moment, almost the moment that review published and I was done with it, I don't think I've listened to it since because, A, the hype just kind of burnt me out on it. And it just wouldn't fucking go away. Like, I saw, I cannot, I cannot even fathom like how many times I saw Run the Jewels perform at festivals or what have you in L.A. at that time. And, you know, to the point of like it doesn't really go away, this, this album to me,

I'm having so much trouble expressing like what I actually mean with this, but it sounds so super right now that it almost seems kind of dated in a way. When I hear some of the, I mean, it's a result of just the profound influence like Phoebe, not just the sound of this band, but like also the writing style of Phoebe Bridgers, the writing style Lucy Dacus, the writing style of Julian Baker has had on indie rock as a whole. It almost feels like I've heard this sort of kind of.

I think about like the one line like where I think it's Lucy Dacus who says like you fuck around and find out. I know what it's trying to do and I just kind of reflexively cringe in the same way that I do when succession throws its little bone to the media people covering it by having like the hundreds or the hundred on that.

episode. You know, it's just so, it just feels like, not pandering. I don't want to go that far, but it just seems like so in control of like its message that, you know, I kind of miss the relative unrueliness of, you know, their solo albums in the same way that like I never listen to run the Jules anymore, but I do go back sometimes to LP or Killer Mike's early work. And you know what? Like, again, though, I'm not.

25. You know, I haven't come up with these artists. I wonder if I'm feeling right now the way, you know, like the older music critics, like, who are really into the deer hoof and the boredoms felt when I, you know, when the national started to become hot shit. Yeah, I guess this is just a cycle of life thing. I don't, I don't, I don't think that's true, though, because, again, it's not these artists individually. I like, I mean, I've been following them their whole career and I've written about them and I've had them on podcasts. I like these artists a lot. I just don't feel like this is the best showcase for them. And I do feel like, and you were hinting at this, I think there's like a memeification that's happened with Boy Genius

that I think just detracts from the music a bit. I just don't feel like they are at their most interesting in this band. I don't think that these songs are like their best songs. Again, particularly in the second half, I think the record falls off. Oh yeah, totally. Like that, that seems like unequivocally true. Yeah, and, you know, maybe it would be different at this with just like another EP, and it had like lower stakes attached to it. But I don't know. I just feel like the charm a little bit has been taken from this group.

And I just hope that they get back to making their own records, which I'm sure they will. But yeah, I don't know. I'm disappointed by this. And it pains me to say it because I, do like all of these artists individually and I like them being successful and having this platform. So I say this would love that you don't need to make another boy genius album. You should go make your own records because I think that's where your work is best highlighted. Yeah.

And also, like I feel we are not going to advance to a new era in indie rock until we get the next Phoebe Bridgers album. Because right now, I still think Punisher is, if not, it's definitely like maybe it's definitely the one of the if not the the definitive albums of you know the pandemic era and her influences just so widespread and unmistakable that I feel like we're just kind of in this holding pattern until we get like what comes next after Punisher yeah and I would like to see how she advances from that because I do think that the other thing about this record is that it does show some of the limitations of maybe that sound and reiterating that sound.

And one thing I like about the Boy Genius record are like the more rocking songs. There are these sort of like alt rock sounding stuff that I think changes. And that's something that Dacus and Baker have done on their solo records. And Bridgers hasn't really done that. She's done that like a little bit. But, you know, Punisher, if anything, was even like more insular than Stranger in the Alps. So I'll be curious to see if she maybe embraces that more sort of full-bodied sound on whatever she does next. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call a Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talked about something that we're into this week.

Ian, why don't you go first? So there's a new album from a band called Lies and the album itself is called Lies except it's lowercase. And it's a more of a synth-pop sample-based project from Mike and Nate Kinsella who are from, a, you know, a little emo concern called American Football that you might be aware of. I mean, I'm kind of contractually obligated to talk about this record. I actually enjoyed a lot, though. I interviewed them for Up Rocks back in February, and this is their debut. And it emerged from what was supposed to be American Football LP4.

They were going to take things into a more kind of synth-based, a little kind of a weird territory. and just by the nature of the fact that American football consists of mostly dudes with real-life jobs, it didn't come to pass. So I do like the fact that Nate and Mike got together and saw this one to fruition. I honestly, and I know how this is going to sound, I kind of prefer where they go here rather than maybe making another American football album where they just kind of do the same thing. I loved LP3, felt like it's run its course. but yeah, it's just really cool to hear a lot of the same things that Mike Kinsella does on his solo records as Owen, you know, lyrically and guitar-wise, but just in a more vibrant sort of sound, which is what Nate Kinsella's been doing for a long time with Berthmark and also as a member of

American football. So, yeah, just a new branch of the Kinsella tree. I'm on it. Lies. The album itself is called Lies. Good stuff. Not to be confused with G&R lies. Or is it? You should hear their one in a million cover. It's highly problematic. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm going to, yeah, what if I recommended G&R lies?

That'd be a good bit right now. No, I want to talk about an Irish quartet called Lankham. And this is a band that I feel like is not Ian Cohen music superficially, but maybe I could persuade you into giving this band a chance, because they're an Irish folk band. Not very Ian Cohen like, and not even really like my kind of music either, but they take these traditional Irish songs and they take them in like a post-rock direction. Like I feel like I've seen this band described as like if the Pogue sounded like Sonno, you know, that kind of thing where you have the traditional element, but there's also this sort of deconstruction going on where it sounds and I'm going to use this word ethereal as well as just. Kind of evil and sinister sounding.

Like, I don't know how to explain this, but there's something kind of metal about this band, even though there's, like, no metal music in it at all. And that may have to do with the fact that on the album cover, they look like a band that would be signed to, like, profound lore. You know, like, it's beards and, like, furrowed brows, and they look like intense people. But this record, again, it's called False Lankham is the name of the album. It's really grown on me since it came out last week.

Again, just really beautiful music, but it has this kind of evil undertow to it. I just imagine it like, you know, being the kind of music that you would hear, like if someone decided to remake the road, you know, that one of McCarthy book. There's already a movie made out of it, but no one remembers the movie. But like if someone, or like Blood Meridian, I think that hasn't been made. If someone finally made that into a movie, I feel like this band, would be a good soundtrack for that, because it just has this kind of post-apocalyptic feel to it, wide-open spaces, arid terrain,

where it sounds like kind of timeless and undead at the same time, if that makes sense. So again, the band is called Lankham. The record's called False Lankham. And I think it's a really cool record. I can see it catching on, actually, with a lot of people. I think it sort of has, because what it does is so unique. Now, as far as the album cover, I will challenge that it sounds like profound lore because I can read the script on the front. To me, it looks more like a 4A.D, circa 1993 sort of thing because of the color scheme or even like a post-grunge band.

Like, I would not be shocked if live ever made a cover that sort of looked like that. But yeah, I listened to it just because I've seen, it's a sort of album that like the people who are going to review it are going to rave about it just because it does something. something so unique. And I think this kind of, I like the instrumentals a lot when it gets into like the lyrics. Like I think that gets, you know, that kind of takes me out of it. But the parts that are instrumental remind me a bit of, and again, this is a canceled band. We need someone to fill this void. Of the parts of like recent Swans records where it's, it's not like metal per se where it's like loud and abrasive, but it uses things like these old-timey undead instruments to get this sense of dread across. So, yeah, I do like what this band's doing. I do think it's super interesting.

I just love the idea of these like four people in Ireland getting together. It's like, hey, we're going to make kind of a post-rocky folk band. Are you into this sort of thing? It's like, fuck yeah, we are. And it's really popular in Ireland. Like, apparently this band is competing with like the Lana Del Rey record for like the number one album. I love that. I love, this reminds me of that time that like Magwa I put out a new record a few years ago. And they like enlisted their fans to make it number one,

which you can do in a smaller country. I love when people do that. Yeah, there's a, there's a world too, like where my enjoyment of this album will help me get into the Black Country New Roadway album. Because there, there is some shared DNA.

with this album and what Black Country New Road is doing. So stay tuned. Maybe I'll finally change my opinion on that band. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.