Indiecast - New Albums By Paramore + Caroline Polachek

Episode Date: February 17, 2023

On this week's Indiecast, Ian Cohen and Steve Hyden try to make sense of the conversation around Rihanna's Super Bowl Halftime performance (7:00), as well as the buzz about U2's upcoming residency in Las Vegas (15:23).In the meat of the episode (28:57), they reviewed two recent releases — the first is This Is Why, the first album in six years from the venerable emo-pop institution Paramore. In recent years, the band's aughts-era music has been an obvious influence on a range of pop and rock acts. But on the new LP, Hayley Williams and co. attempt to pivot away from their traditional sound toward a more post-punk type vibe. Do they pull it off? Let's talk it out.The second album is Desire, I Want To Turn Into You, the latest from singer-songwriter Caroline Polachek. The album already has serious "Album Of The Year" vibes — yes, we're already talking about this stuff in February — so why is it also reminiscent of Oscar bait films or prestige TV?In our Recommendation Corner (52:10) segment, Steve suggests checking out The Future Is Our Past, the new album by the Brian Jonestown Massacre, while Ian talks about the new EP from shoegaze band Crushed, Extra Life.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 126 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On the show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by Paramore and Caroline Polichek. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He always cries during the national anthem. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Show me a Philadelphia and he doesn't get a little teary-eyed when the Hooters and We Dance comes on. You know what I mean? Like, it's... Well, yeah, that's... Is that the Philly National Anthem? It is the Philly National Anthem. Also, I can't help but notice.

There's like a little more pep in your step in that introduction. So as you can tell, I'm sure you're very pleased with the results of the Super Bowl. Well, okay, well, let's do a quick sports cast here at the top of the show because the Super Bowl, as we all know, occurred last weekend and the Kansas City Chiefs beat the Philadelphia Eagles. And look, I'm not here to gloat. I love the city of Philadelphia. I love a lot of bands from Philadelphia. I don't want to anger our listeners from Philly because I'm sure there's a lot of them. But I did realize during this playoff run, or I didn't realize it, I guess I remembered that I hate the Eagles.

I had sort of forgotten that I'd hate in the Eagles because, did I say hating the Eagles? I don't know. You're just like so caught up in your anger that like you choke it on your own rage here. year, you know, like Cuomo Sizzlack. Well, look, I mean, it's really about the trauma of Fourth and 26. And I thought I was over it. But apparently I'm not because I was enjoying seeing the Eagles lose. That game, and again, I'm sorry to everyone out there in Philadelphia.

I know it's been a, I don't want to say a rough year because you've made it to the World Series. You've made to the Super Bowl. Very hard things to do, but you lost. Both. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, because there's so many teams that don't even get to those games that I don't want to call it a failure, but it's definitely a weird thing to happen. And it's not the same calendar year, but I guess the same sports year.

I mean, are you feeling cursed as a Philly fan at this point? Not really because, I mean, you know, the Phillies lost to the Houston Astros, which are kind of the equivalent of the Kansas. City Chiefs in that, like for years, they were this nondescript franchise, and then they just kind of cracked the code and, you know, what used to be kind of a feel-good story. Like, I think the Chiefs are kind of in, like, the Taylor Swift fake surprise face at an award show where, you know, it's like, yeah, it's no longer cute for them to, like, act like they weren't supposed to be here, that they're surprised or, you know, because... Well, I will say, I feel like everyone was taking the Eagles.

before that came. I had to fact check you on that. And the betting line was Eagles by one and a half. But like the general vibe is that, yeah, I wouldn't pick against like Pat Mahomes, who's like probably the best quarterback we've ever seen. That's not the vibe I was getting. I listened to sports podcasts almost exclusively. Like in my, I don't listen to music podcast.

I listen to sports podcasts. Everyone was picking the Eagles. And look, you can show me a breakdown. I think you did in our outline. I did. I'm going to go to the outline because you, I don't know, I think you actually broke down the percentage of people who picked. That was copy and paste.

Okay, well, anyway, well, you looked this up. So you said, 56.6% of people on ESPN picked the Eagles versus 43 and change for the Chiefs. That's like going to Metacritic when someone says, everyone loved this album. And then you go to Metacritic and you're like, no, no, no. there's like you know it was like 82% approved and it's like well that's just because there's like a bunch of nobodies who dragged down the score in terms of like the big experts I feel like the smart money was on the eagles because people just thought that your defense was like the 85 bears when in reality you were the 22 bears in that game so that's what happened your defense was overrated you played

nobody this year and you got exposed by the chiefs that's what happened in the Super Bowl. I don't want to hear about this. I don't want to hear about this call. No, not everyone said that. That's not true. That's the Philly, like, everyone hates us mentality. Because Philly has the same thing. They have that same, like,

no one likes this thing, too. I think everyone in sports has that now. That's like the main motivation of athletes these days. That's what happened. I don't want to rub salt in the wound, though. I'm going to be a good sport here. It's not like I love the chiefs are

anything. It's just, again, I'm a Packers fan. My quarterback right now is in like a dark cave somewhere while he's, you know, playing Hamlet again trying to decide whether he's going to come back, you know. So look, I'm in hell as a sports fan. So if you're, if you're a Philly fan and you're mad at me, just understand that I'm a fan of a team with the most pathetic quarterback in the league. and I'm just trying to take solace in a team that has tortured me for 20 years having a minor setback. Eagles are going to be great next year,

even though your coach is a buffoon. How do you think about Sariani? I think that game was over when he was crying during the national anthem. Yeah, that was just like bad juju. Speaking of which, did you see like Juju Shuster Smith post yesterday of Valentine's

making fun of James Brad Barry, the guy who was the holding call, he posted a Valentine of like, I'll always hold you. Like, is that like, is that swag or is that just like, damn, dude, that is fucking pathetic. I don't know.

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I could, I can get behind that kind of shit talk, but yeah, I mean, look, Steve, hurt people, hurt people. And, you know, I get what you're going through. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, again, because I don't want to alienate

our Philly listeners. I guarantee that's like probably our best market. Yeah, I don't want to alienate them. I love Philadelphia. As I've said in the past, I've been there, great city, war on drugs, my favorite contemporary rock band, love Kurt Vile, love Rocky,

love Gamble and Huff, soul productions from the 70s. The whole kitten caboodle, I just have a weird thing with the Eagles because I'm in hell as a Packer fan right now. You know, I have to bring this up to you. I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast before.

You know, maybe we did last February. But, you know, February is like the worst month of the year, as far as I'm concerned. You're in San Diego, so it's always nice. But in the Midwest, this is the time of year where winter just feels endless. And it's super cold. And you're just like, when is it ever going to be spring again? And then as a music critic, in February, you have a double shot of the Grammys. and then lately the week after the Grammys is the Super Bowl.

So then you have basically a double shot of over-analyzing the Grammys and over-analyzing the Super Bowl halftime show. That is the worst stretch in music writing, as far as I'm concerned. You know, I've had to cover halftime shows before. So, like, if people had to write a review of the halftime show, like, I'm not going to knock the hustle. I know what that's all about. But if you're on Twitter and you're talking about the Super Bowl halftime show the day after or the day after the day after and you're not getting paid for it, you're just doing it for free, you have been poisoned by the discourse.

You must check into treatment and get detoxified because it's just not that interesting. I feel like people treat this like it's an actual musical event when you're not. It's just spectacle. It's empty. It doesn't mean anything. It's fun. Like Rihanna, I thought it was fine. It was fine.

It was good. And then I forgot about it instantly. That's all it is. It's, you know, bread and circus. You do not need to write a think piece about it. You know, people used to just make fun of these things. They go on. That was very raucous, Steve.

It's like you can't even make fun of someone for lip syncing anymore. You know? can't we do that? Like, it's not a big deal. Like, I like Rihanna. I like a lot of her songs. I thought she was good on the halftime show. She's pregnant, apparently.

So that makes it even more impressive that she was able to do that. Did you see the reviews of that? I feel like there was, like, a lot of reviews that said, this was just fine. But they were trying to spin it into, like, her being just okay on purpose. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, wasn't that like, I feel like people were sort of turning a just fine assessment into a rave. Yeah, I mean, well, I'm a little envious of, like, people who get to cover, you know, the Grammys or the Super Bowl halftime show because, I mean, this just kind of shows you how much, how much easier and fun it is to cover stuff like this rather than, like, write 500 words on a, I don't know, like a new screaming females album or whatever. because like you can go in like regardless of like I think most people like were excited about the Rihanna performance. It's like her first live performance and God knows how long. She hasn't released an album since 2016. And they come in with the narrative. And so like you were saying, you know, I watch this. I'm like, this is clearly being lip synced.

And, you know, she could play the hooks for all the lights and run this town and not bring out Jay Z or Kanye. But like you could see those things as disappointments as an average viewer. but if you're invested in the idea of Rihanna as this like kind of above it all sort of pop star, then it's like, oh, it's a flex. It's like effortless cool, you know? Like it's so easy to retrofit like whatever actually happened into this view that you wanted to have going in. And you can't lose.

As far as I'm concerned, though, like it's spectacle. Like I'm like torn between whether I wanted. something that like didn't try too hard. Like you could see the memes afterwards, like people trying to meme this performance and it just wasn't happening. You know, as opposed to like, you know, someone like Lady Gaga or like Katie Perry

who's like just all memes, like all very try hard. And I actually found this performance like a little refreshing because overall I think, you know, everything surrounding the game like the, you know, the commercials, they're all a little bit too knowing, you know. It's like when the Stakeham, Twitter account tries to, like, tweet, like, a zoomer.

Like, I don't want, and I think we're going to get into this as we discussed the Caroline Polichick record about, like, you know, the prestige TVing, the comedy prestige TVing of, like, music and, like, Twitter. It's like, I don't want to necessarily feel that these people are my friends, you know? Well, you know, I was just thinking about the weekend, that performance. Was that last year? No, that was two years ago. Last year was, who the fuck?

Oh, no, last year was like Dr. Dre and Snoom. Oh, right. That was actually really fucking cool. That was fun. Yeah, I feel like the weekend was very aware of the meme aspect of these things because there were certain things in his show that just lent themselves to that sort of treatment. Like that part where he's walking through that hall of mirrors, you know? Do you remember that part?

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I feel like that was like, that was like, okay, just put that on a GIF immediately. And there's going to be like a thousand terrible jokes playing off of that within like a second. Yeah, I mean, he's an internet guy. He like came up, you know, as an internet guy. So Rihano was just kind of above that, you know. You know, I think they should, you know, I like it when they get different artists together to perform. Like, you know, you had that hip hop show last year.

But I'm thinking back to like the early 2000. Like where they would have like Arrowsmith. Yes. And Britney Spears. And Mary J. Blige together. Right. Was like Justin Timberlake or Nelly involved in that somehow, I think?

Maybe. But I just feel like they were trying to cover every demographic and pulling from different areas. So like I would love to see a halftime show where it was like Metallica and Bad Bunny and, you know, like Morgan Wallin or something. And you just have them perform like together. together in these, like, terrible medley's. Like, I, I'm a, I am a opponent of making the Super Bowl halftime show Dumber and, and, and worse, musically. I think it should be terrible musically.

Like, really, the greatest halftime show ever, and people have, you know, talked about the anniversary of this, including me, is that, I think it was a playoff game with the Cowboys were Creed. Oh, that was amazing. And you have the bald guy who has like the hang glider. Yeah. Yeah, like the shirtless bald guy who like goes up into the sky and he's got wings. And I think they're playing the song higher.

They have to be playing higher. Yeah. And it's like, yes, this is what a halftime show should be. It should just be totally ridiculous. Here we are like 20 years later talking about it. Will we be talking about like, you know, Rihanna's tastefully, like tastefully effort? or let's see cool performance a year from now? I don't know.

Yeah, exactly. Like, we don't need to ruminate on, you know, someone's persona in, like, over-intellectualized terms when we're talking about the Super Bowl halftime show. Super Bowl halftime show should be stupid. It should be loud and dumb. I think next year it's in Vegas. I mean, this is, like, a perfect opportunity

to get the killers doing something, like them or just, like, you know they're going to ham it up. So we shall see. Get, like, the killers. Elton John. Yeah. And who's the third one? Had to get the disco.

Little hometown hero. And then maybe like, you know, we got to throw in, you know, like a younger star. We're going to get you two to do it again. How about, no, we'll get like, like, little Zon in there. You know, someone like that. We'll get some like SoundCloud rapper in there, too. We need, we need, like, mismatched people that don't make any sense. That's what should be the halftime show.

Young gravy, we got our eye on you. Get young gravy in there. That'd be awesome. Speaking of Vegas, we should talk about this quick because we need to get to our mailbag, but one of the big commercials during the Super Bowl was advertising an upcoming Las Vegas residency that you too is going to be doing. And it looks like it's going to be connected to Zoo TV in some way.

Or Octo. Isn't there like a Zoo TV connection? I feel like there was. I feel the fact that like you, You're not sure off, Pam? Like, man, you, you're like the U-2 guy. But I think it is like, I would say if I had to guess, yes, Zoo TV is somehow involved. Yes, it says Octune Baby Live is the show.

So I assume, similar to their Joshua Tree tour, they're going to be playing Octune Baby in sequence. And I would assume that there'll be some sort of like Zoo TV tipping of the cap in that show. See, I predicted this a few years ago that YouTube. would do like a Zoo TV anniversary tour. This is back during the pandemic when there were no tours. But I thought, because Zoo TV is kind of, I feel like that's almost like the last thing that you two did that most people would

agree was cool. Absolutely. Since then, it's been pretty hit or miss. As you said, I'm a U2 apologist, so I tend to be forgiving with them. It is interesting because they're not going to be playing these shows with Larry Mullen, the drummer, because he's had. having back surgery. So there's like a little controversy, at least among the U2 fans with that.

I mean, most people aren't going to care. But it is significant because U2 is one of the only bands with all the original members through their career. I mean, there's so few bands that have had that. I mean, there's U2, there's radio head. There's Aerosmith. Really? Really?

No, there has to be like some. There has to be like some like, you know, like seasons of the office where like, you know, Steve Carell like goes off and like builds a movie and they replace a guy in rehab. Yeah, I mean, there was a period in the middle a little bit where Joe Perry left. Right. And but for the, but today it's the same band. So I don't know. I'm trying to get uprocks to send me to cover this. I would love to see that show.

I mean, I actually think that will be really good. It's got to be cool. even though like you two doing a Vegas residency I guess like the stigma of that has been taken away now because a lot of people do that it's not just older acts but I mean those guys are in their 60s now which is which is kind of wild to think about you two

being that old although I guess for a lot of people they've always just been super old yeah they've always they've always been old like forever you know like I do think that the I think YouTube's kind of undervalued in a way as like an influence. Oh, they totally are. Like I think this, I think we're looking at like, I think we're looking at a possible YouTube reappreciation because, yeah, this, it looks cool. Like, you know, YouTube was like one of the one of the bands of its era that like really embraced multimedia, uh, sort of spectacle, particularly at a time like in the 90s when most bands that were at their level like shied away from that. And granted, you know, it got tied into some pretty lame music. and then like a whole, we're reapplying to be the biggest band in the world sort of phase, you know, where they, you know, helped us heal from 9-11.

But yeah, I'm like ready for people to like kind of appreciate, you know, that area of you too again, you know. Rolling, if they put out a new album, Rolling Stone's going to be ready. Like, I'm for it. I see, I don't know if they have Rolling Stone anymore. Rolling Stone has changed a lot in like the last year or two where, you know, Is David Frick still alive? I don't know. I don't think it's like when people want to say that indie rock fans love the national.

You know, like that's the cliche, which isn't accurate anymore. Like, it won't get to, like, it's more like a Caroline Polichick is like the cliche now of what indie music is. I think with the Rolling Stone thing, I don't know. They've changed. They've like, you know. And look, I like Rolling Stone historically. I've read them for a long time. So I'm not going to take shots at Rolling Stone.

But I don't think that they're going to automatically give the rubber stamp. Because I think their new editor had like a thing like where he was like, we're going to look critically at our old favorites. And that was like when they were taking Eric Clapton into the woodshed for being, you know, anti-vaxxer or whatever. Instead of, you know, making just boring music for 50 years. Shout out to Eric Clapton in the 60s, though. Yeah.

Eric Clapton, the 60s is great. Before we found out what he thinks about anything, be it race, vaccines. Oh, man. Yeah, that's true. Man, I did not think we were going to talk about Eric Clapton in this episode of Indycast. We've got to steer away from that. Let's get to our mailbag. We didn't do it at mailbag last week.

We were going to do this question last week, but we were too busy talking about other stuff. So you want to read this letter? I do want to read this letter. It's kind of a quasi-sports cast. So, hi, Stephen Ian. I know how much you enjoy a good sports analogy. So here's a question that should be right up your alley. As you're both aware,

Kauai Leonard took a long time to reveal himself as an all-time great. He wasn't a lottery pick in the draft and had a fairly unremarkable first few years in the league. Most would probably have described as an above average role player and a defensive specialist, and it wasn't until his fifth year in the league that he started averaging over 20 points a game and began showing signs of the MVP caliber player

he ultimately became. I would like to hear your nominees for the Kauai Indycast Kauai Leonard Award, the late bloomer who took several years or albums coming to their own. To be clear, I'm not looking for artists who were simply overlooked or discovered after a few albums, but ones who are middling are just not very good, who finally kicked into high gear. Let's hear your picks. John G., a longtime listener and caller from Charlotte, North Carolina. So we have an outline of every episode, so I know what Ian's going to say. And I think his answer might be the right answer.

And I'm just going to say that before he said. So I'm not going to bigfoot him and say it myself. But I'll say that I think this trajectory that John is talking about where you start out. And like you said, it's not that you're overlooked. It's just that, you know, maybe you're, you haven't totally figured out who you are yet. And it takes you a little while to get to full strength. That is the trajectory of almost like every. significant jam band going back to the Grateful Dead.

I feel like that was a band that they didn't really get cooking until about 68, 69, and they started in 65. You could say that about fish. You could say that about my boys and goose, you know, who were playing around Connecticut for several years and didn't have a profile until about 2019, 2020. King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. They didn't get cooking until their 35th album. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, I think, like, the reputation they have now is a live band, you know, has been growing over the course of a decade.

But I would, I feel like in the last, like, couple years is when they really become, you know, a band that can headline red rocks on multiple nights and have people taping their shows. So I think in the jam community, you can liken many bands to Kauai Leonard. You know, it's almost like the standard path in that scene. Now, why don't you say what you're going to say? Because I think this might be the best answer. Yeah. Also, I'm kind of surprised you as like a Bucks fan. Didn't mention Janice or like Yokic, like two guys who were like,

they were both drafted like as projects and they took years to become like the best players like we've seen in the past 20 years or so. I just think of cool. Yeah, I mean, there's like there's lots of NBA people who have had that Kauai Leonard. I mean like Kobe Bryant took a while to get great. Yeah. You know, he wasn't like anyone who's drafted out of high school for the most part, unless you're LeBron James or Kevin Garnett, you know, you're going to take a little while.

Right. Now I just think of Kauai is someone who, like, plays 20 games a year. But, you know, come to think of it, that makes it a pretty good comparison for like the guy, the band that I'm going to mention, which is, I mean, you kind of saw this coming from a mile away. It's the national because, you know, those first two albums, they've more or less written them out of their history, not because, like, they're bad per se, but it's like, you can see. They're like the kind of equivalent of, like, the 17th draft pick and, you know,

averaging eight points a game, a couple rebounds, and you're not quite sure whether they're going to pan out or not. But yeah, it took them a little while to hit their stride. And also, like, Kauai Leonard is seen as kind of boring in a fundamental board man gets paid type of band.

So I think that fits right there. But also, I'm surprised you also didn't mention, like, guided by voices. I think that, like, B-000 was their seventh album or something like that. But I think you make... Yeah.

I mean, I think, like, propeller would be their breakout. That's a few years ago. That's the alligator. But, yeah, that would have been, I think B-Thousa... I'm sorry, I think Perpeler would be... I think it's like their fifth album or so, right around there. So, yeah, it took them... Although I like the early guy to my voice's albums.

Maybe that's why I didn't mention them. I mean, because they are a band, you could say, was overlooked. You know, because they really were... They had a whole career. before anyone was paying attention to them. This actually, you know what? I actually, this just dawned on me

because like I can't think of a lot of modern indie analogs, but this happens a lot in rap. Like I just think about like Rick Ross, for example. Like, especially like when I was back more like, you know, reviewing rap and writing about it, there would be artists who like were kind of jokes for a bit. And then you're like, wait a minute. Like this is actually fucking awesome.

Like, you know, Teflon, Don era Rick Ross, come home with me, Cameron. Like, there's a, or like, even Lowell Wayne for that matter. Yeah, I think that this tends to happen more in rap because, like, you can be, like, popular and still, like, get a couple more turns at it and then become, like, your own sort of artist. But, like, indie rock, like these days, like, I'm just trying to think of a band that, like, in the modern day has, like, three just kind of okay albums and then, like, transcends. I mean, the thing is, you know, I mentioned jam bands, you mentioned rappers, and I think that the common thread there is that a jam band and a rapper, they're doing things outside of just putting out conventional albums. Absolutely.

You know, like with jam bands, it's about playing live and, you know, like the bootlegs that people are recording. And that's how you develop. And with rappers, a lot of times it's like mixtapes. Yeah, or guest verses or whatever. Right. So it's not just about your record. And whereas in the indie world and pop music world,

there's so much writing on like an album as a statement. So I think there is something to be said for having the ability to like work outside of that sort of strict system, you know, that allows you maybe to play your way into being good rather than, you know, having to be great right away. I mean, most bands just don't get the opportunity to be great on their third or fourth record. Like if you aren't great right away, it's going to be hard to maintain a career. I mean, the national, you know, they were just the band, I think, that, I mean, it's funny to think of them as being contemporaries of, like, the strokes and Interpol, even though, like, because they're really not historically, but, like, their first record came out in 2001. So it was like right in that era. And I always think of that story from Meet Me in the Bathroom, where I think it's Matt Berninger talking about how they had to walk through an Interpol photo shoot one day to get to their

rehearsal space. You know, like in 2002 or whatever, it was like such a juxtaposition for like where they were at versus this other band that was their peer, but was also not their peer because they were so much bigger at the time. And Interpol, what basketball player would you compare? compared to them, a band that, like, you know, a player that just has a phenomenal rookie year. And then it's pretty good after that. Like, they don't, like, fall off the planet.

But everyone agrees that, like, wow, they were never as good. I don't know. I got to think of, like, I don't know, like, O.J. Mayo or something like that. You're really, like, tested. I should be a lot better on. Like, Ben Simmons? Is that like a Ben Simmons situation, like, where Ben Simmons is, like, an All-Star? And now he's, like, playing 13 minutes a game.

Please don't. Please don't insult. Like, my memories have turned on the bright lights by comparing it to fucking Ben Simmons, dude. That was even – I feel like that's like another shot at Philly sports fans there. That was not deliberate on my part. He's Brooklyn's problem now. Exactly. You got rid of them.

Maybe you can enjoy how just – he's gotten even worse in Brooklyn. Let's get to the meat of our episode and look at that. We got right in under 30 minutes. so I'm happy about that. There will be no refunds in this episode. The first album we're going to be talking about is called This Is Why, which is the sixth album by Paramour. Paramore, of course, being one of the most popular pop-punk emo bands of the last 20 years.

And you can really see the influence of this band, I think, on contemporary rock and pop in a way that maybe people wouldn't have predicted 10 years ago. But you have so many, I think, moderate. stars and you can start with Olivia Rodriguez being a very obvious example. But I think even like people like Taylor Swift, Billy Eilish, all the way down to the Phoebe Bridgers and Himes of the world, I think that you can draw some sort of connection between what Paramore was doing in the 2000s when they first came on the scene to what we hear a lot in music today. And it's really added, I think, a stature to this group that, again, I don't think that they had necessarily

when they first started out, you know, 15 some years ago. I mean, I noticed this week that Haley Williams was profiled in the New Yorker. You know, like that's the era that we're in now with Haley Williams now being this really sort of, I think, I don't want to say elder statesman because she's like, I think in her mid-30s. She's still a very young woman. She's like 34, I think. But she is a person that I think a lot of younger artists look at as an inspiration and as an influence. and that lends this record, I think, a different kind of significance than maybe a late period record by a legacy band would have.

Like, I've seen a lot of conversation about this album. And the reviews have been, I would say, good to great. I'd say by and large kind of raves. Yeah, a lot of praise for this record. And it's interesting, I want to get your take on this, Ian, because I'll admit at the outset that paramour, is a band that I can appreciate, especially as I said, as an influence and common touchdown for a lot of artists today. But I also feel like there's a bit of a generation gap with me with this band.

Like they came along at a time where I just was not listening to the genre of music that Paramore was a part of. If they were a band that came out, you know, when I was, say, like 10 years younger, I think I'd have a different perspective on them. but I feel like they're a band that again I can appreciate but not really fully embrace. Do you feel the same? I mean, I feel the same way even though like I'm more predisposed to like this sort of music. I don't know if like, you know, Elder Stateswoman is the operative term, but I think you mentioned legacy band. And I think that really nails it. You know, they're a legacy band that clearly has a lot of truck amongst like younger artists,

the ones you've mentioned, but like older people can kind of get what they're doing. You know, it's kind of similar to say deaf tones. I mean, two different bands, obviously, but like both whose influence, like you can really, really see, you know, in so many bands. And also, like, they both benefit from, like, not being as embarrassing as the other big bands that they came up alongside, you know, like how deaf tones are, like, always compared to, like, limp biscuit and corn and whatnot. And paramour, similar.

Similarly to like fallout boy or panic into disco, like they they would be like revered just for the fact that they haven't aged embarrassingly. And, you know. Well, but we should say though that when we say they like paramour is basically Haley Williams at this point, right? I mean, isn't it Haley Williams plus hired guns? No, no. I think I mean, I think that they're like kind of important members like Tyler York. I know the drummer. like they're seen as important.

Like they're not quite, say, the killers in that regard. You know, Haley Williams is obviously the only one getting profiled by a New Yorker, but I think that there is a pretty, they present as a band, which, you know, they're all on the album cover, which I think makes them, like more likable than they would be if it was just seen as, like, Haley Williams and, like, a couple other dudes. But, you know, I think the generation gap is an important thing to acknowledge because like even someone like myself who, you know, likes emo music, perhaps you've heard,

they came around at a time, like, between 2004 and 2011, you know, the MySpace, the Warp Tour Arrow. And like, even the bands I really, really liked from that time, you know, I had to enjoy them from, like, a distance. You know, like, Riot, I think it's a great record. I remember it being described as, like, no doubt doing Bleed American. And yeah, there's like, that's a great record of its time. I never, they didn't fundamentally shape my worldview. And I think that's true even with like bands like, you know, from that are like brand new. Well, she used, I mean, Paramore is part of that generation of punk and emo bands that really gave that music like a slick pop.

Yes. Sheen to it, which has clearly been influential on modern music. Although at the time, and there probably still are people out there out there who would say this is that it maybe took something essentially raw. of that kind of music. Oh, yeah. That it was like maybe a little too slick. But that perspective, you don't hear voiced as much now as perhaps it was voiced at the time. Like pitchfork, I feel like that kind of publication would have been inclined to scoff

at a band like Paramour in the 2000s for that reason. Whereas now, I think clearly the critical consensus has shifted to embracing that slickness. and that has a lot to do with how critics now were kids when this music was popular, and it was formative for them. Exactly. And so, yeah, I mean, I've pitched Riot as a Sunday review. I'm probably not the guy to do it. But, yeah, I think that, like, you see this every 10-some-odd years where, like,

a formative band that, like, maybe wasn't, like, critically acclaimed. Like, when they become, like, default because, like, those people eventually become writers. And, I mean, you could see that in some ways with, like, even, like, Lincoln Park, for that matter. But, you know, with this new record, I feel like after laughter, the one that came out in 2017, there was kind of like a compensation going on. Like, I mean, if we're talking about, like, people who, you know, were 17 or teenagers when, like, riot came out, like, they'll tell you that it's self-titled or brand new, like, basically all their records are, like, classics. And so I'm not surprised about this one being, you know, rave them. about in the same way. It's all, you know, you only get so many times to rave about a power more record.

What's interesting to me is just like, like after laughter, you know, it's like their pop record, you know, so that aligns a couple of like contemporary trends. But like this one, I feel like, you know, we're in a position to, you know, we're in a position to assess it objectively because they are going all in on like block party and foals types. like they're bringing, A, they're bringing them on tour and like Haley Williams to describe this album of like wanting to get back in touch with like rock music and like when she was like a teenager

listening to silent alarm in her car. Yeah, it's interesting. The first half of the record is more upbeat and more maybe classic paramour at least what I associate with them. And then the back half is moodyer

and I guess you could say art And it's an interesting juxtaposition. I wouldn't have necessarily made the Black Party connection if that hadn't been brought up by Haley Williams in interviews. I don't know. See, I don't feel like I'm an authority on Paramour, so take this with a grain of salt. I'm a casual listener of this band.

I tend to appreciate them more as a singles band. You know, and Ain't It Fun is like their big hit song from their self-title record from 2013. But, you know, also the song, like the hits from Riot. Hard times, yeah. Yeah, where it's upbeat, it's kind of snappy and sassy, and it really is a good showcase for Haley Williams' voice, which I think she is like a really strong singer.

And I think in that mode, that's when I like her the most. The quieter half of this record wasn't really doing much for me. And I don't know if that's just me being locked into, like, what I know about this band, but I just don't think of them as a band working in that sort of moody or mode. I appreciate that they're trying to expand the sonic palette, you know, that they're known for, but I guess I'm curious for your take on that. Like, the back half of the record to me worked less than the first half, even though

in a way, it almost seems like the first half of the record was them trying to meet band expectations that maybe her heart is more into the second half of the record. It's funny. Like, I just kind of realized that, like, oh, they, I mean, the way the album is structured, it reminds me a little bit of silent alarm. Like, as much as I love that album, I've, like, caught in flack for saying, yeah, that actually cut the last three songs. But with this album, like, you know, when we think about, like, what their strengths are,

and, you know, I think in some ways sort of like deaf tones, that they're not embarrassed by their strengths, but, like, really want to shy away from that. Like, they famously cut out misery business from their sets because it's seen as a song of, like, internalized misogyny, which I think mentioning that, that kind of gets to, like, what makes Paramore such an appealing band in the current day.

Like, they do the right things in a lot of ways. Like, their politics are good. They endorse, you know, pop music, but also, like, emo bands. They endured, like, just really horrible misogyny. on the Warp Tour. And so you want this album to like really be as good as they are like as a band. But as someone who likes Paramore and likes Block Party, I just don't. Nervy post-punk and I think emo in a way, like you kind of have to have a bad singer in some

ways. So much of this like sounds like very like slick and like it's, you know, virtuosic if not competent. And when I listen to both emo and, you know, block party or foals or things of that nature, you need to get a sense that, like, there's a good chance of this stuff going horribly wrong. And I never really get that tension or that sense of stakes from this record. And so, you know, it's like, it's fine. It's good. You know, if I were, you know, 15 years younger, I might, I might be as committed to this album as I was about like, you know, smashing pumpkins, machines, machina, machine of God, you know,

just being that diehard swearing the sixth album is like every bit as good as their other music or like Death Cap for Qudy's plans. I'm interested to see how this, you know, how this indoors over the year. Because like right now it's like you can kind of tell like the people who are raving about it. they're raving about like paramour the band as much if not more so than the actual record um and you know like it's february we'll see i'm very curious to see how this indoors and year end type stuff because like it's it's good but like i could see it's like maybe it's a bit like over it's definitely overrated but you know what i don't i don't uh you know i don't

I don't mind people getting super enthusiastic over the bands that when you get a chance to like overrate your band, you're going to do it. I've done it. Yeah, I mean, as someone who loved the new abnormal by the strokes, I'm fine with people who are Paramore fans loving this record. And look, Paramore, they're a huge band. I mean, they're playing arenas this year. You know, they're one of the bigger rock bands around. But yeah, I'll be surprised if people at those shows want to hear these songs as much as the old favorites. Because, yeah, I don't know. There's not as much jumping out on this album to me as, again, like that self-titled record. Was that their last, was that the last Paramore record? No, 2017.

Oh, it was after laughter. Yeah, that. After laughter. So it's been a while anyway. It's been six years since that record. So we'll see. Let's get to our next record here. And it is Desire I Want to Turn Into You.

And it's the fourth studio album by Caroline Polichick. You might know her from the band Chairlift, which was a sort of a, like a synth pop band. Yeah. From like the late odds, early 2010. Little Yachty adjacent. I saw them at South by Southwest, I think in like 2011 or 12, which was around the time that they broke up. think. But Caroline Polichick is an artist that is the current figurehead of a genre that I kind of

thought was extinct at this point. But she proves that it still has a beating heart. And that is the genre of indie pop. And this was the kind of music that was really popular in like the aughts and early 2010s. And at the time, it was basically like methadone for, indie rock listeners who wanted to listen to pop sounding music, but they didn't want to listen to actual pop stars. So instead of, you know, listening to Beyonce, maybe like you're a huge Robin fan.

You know, like that was kind of the dynamic back then. And it seems weird to talk about that now because it's so foreign from how we think about indie music now. It really was maybe like a Gen X thing or an older millennial thing. It's so removed from what we see now, which is basically no separation between indie and pop music. You know, you have Mitzki opening for Harry Styles. You have Heim opening for Taylor Swift. You know, there's no shame in liking pop music anymore.

And Caroline Polack, it should be known she's like toured with Duolipa. So she's like in the same sort of indie pop, you know, coordination that's happened lately. but she is a person that I think does have that old school indie pop quality in that her music has a very conscious sort of I'm going to put this in quote marks or air quotes not as a put down necessarily

but just because I think it's like a self-conscious affectation with this kind of music it's very smart and very sort of experimental but like in a way that's not particularly off-putting or like totally bizarre. Like you can listen to this and feel like it's more artful than like a typical pop record. But it's also, again, it's not going to be totally abstract. And on this new album, one of the better songs on the record features Dido and Grimes.

Yes. And I feel like that's a great spectrum for understanding this record because Caroline, Paul-check is sort of like the just right option between those two poles. Like she's quirkier than Dido, but she's not quite as quirky as Grimes. Like she's like the you know, the very nice

warm bowl of porridge in the middle. And you know, I listen to this right. I want to get your take on this record because this record's getting rave reviews. You hear buzz that this is going to be an early album of the year contender. And you know, I don't want

to project this onto the album, because I don't think it's necessarily her fault. Because I think she is really talented, and I think this is a good record. But there is an element of this album that reminds me of like an Oscar bait movie or like a Sunday night HBO prestige show. Where it's the kind of thing that's designed to top critics lists and to get rave reviews. It is so on the nose for what critics like now That again, I don't want to hold it against her But I can't help but inform how I think about this album a little bit As impressive as I think it is in a lot of parts

I can't really connect with it At least not yet hopefully that'll change over the course of the year But look I've ranted about the White Lotus on this show before And I'm not going to say that this is is the White Lotus of albums, but I don't know. Because you have this thing too. Maybe it's a bias that we both have, that when something is like a little too tailored to getting like a rave review from critics, it arouses suspicion.

And I feel a little bit of that with this record. Well, I mean, you meant, I think I saw someone yesterday compare one of these songs to the White Lotus theme, which is, you know, kind of a Pavlovian thing for a certain type of culture writer these days. But with this record, like you're saying, like, I don't want the way it's talked about or, like, the kind of vibes coming off it to affect the way I feel about it. But, like, that's, like, kind of impossible with this. You mentioned, like, Robin earlier on.

And I think, like, Robin kind of set the format for the type of pop artist that Caroline Polichick is. You know, you could throw in with, like, say, you know, Charlie X-C-X. or what have you, where, you know, they're not, they're, they're, they're definitely like pop artists. I wouldn't consider them like singer, songwriters per se, even if they sing and write songs. But they're this kind of like tier of pop artist where you get like kind of the parissocial relationship, but it's like way more rancid than that of like Taylor Swift or Beyonce because like you could be a fan of these artists and like conceivably take a picture of yourself with them at a show.

and so there's like this weird feeling of like ownership and so like I mean the the vibes coming off the conversation around this record it just feels like really kind of icky in a way that like I have trouble kind of connecting with and also yeah it's like tailored to critics in a way because like I mean this is the true north of indie writing now like we're gonna I guarantee you know regardless of who tops the year end. list this year and it's probably going to be some combination of like this and lana del ray and boy genius you're still going to get people saying like oh like the national like critics are just all a bunch of lcd sound system and national fans like that's not true and so not anymore not anymore but and i and i

mentioned that earlier you know that is the cliche but that cliche is like that's 2013 like 23, it is this kind of record. Yes. And again, like, I think a compliment I'll pay to this record is that I think she's really good at looking at the current landscape of sort of avant pop music, you know, whether we're talking about hyperpop or the PC music scene or any of that stuff. And she can bring it into her music in a way that feels organic. Yeah. So, like, if you're looking for, like, an omnibus of, like, different pop music styles in the indie world, this is a good. this is a good record to go to

and I think that would be the case I would make if I was going to say that this is an important record for 2023. It does feel like she's able to integrate a lot of different things into her music without it feeling like she's just chasing trends. And that's something that I think a lot of people

have latched on to when they've talked about this record. And again, she's a really good singer, she's a really good producer. There's an ambition to this record that I think is admirable. But again, I think the final result is it's so tasteful. And it's so, again, like I made the analogy to Prestige TV. I feel like when you watch Prestige TV now, people have figured out a formula for what a show like that looks like. And it's not really innovative.

And it's not really doing anything that you haven't seen before. And it's not even really providing any sort of unique insight. but it fits the widget hole for that kind of show. And it's like, well, what are we going to do on Sunday night? You know, we have to talk about something. Oh, there's a new show on HBO. This fits the bill. You know, that's what a lot of that kind of conversation feels like now.

And this album, it just reminds me of that. Right. And as well made as it is, it doesn't get over, it doesn't have that extra oomph of feeling truly impactful when I listen to it, I guess. And maybe again, I mean, I think we're always influenced by things

that have nothing to do with the record when you listen to a piece of music. I mean, that's just the, you know, we're environmental animals. It's good to be aware of that, so I'm trying to be extra aware of that with this album. But I don't know. The tastefulness of it maybe is what's turning

me off ultimately from fully loving this record. It's funny you mentioned tastefulness because like the first song on this record, Welcome to My Island makes me think of songs from like the first 1975 album like hard out except if you have like

kind of a rap midsection. But yeah, I like this more than like I thought it. I would can I like completely commit to it? Probably not for all the reasons that you mentioned. And also I'm like not the target audience of this. It makes me think It makes me think of like, I don't know, fice the reminder, but like for, you know, more for an error where people are like proud of being super messy on Twitter.

I'm just glad that like by the time, you know, we get to, you know, when we're voting for year end lists in like August, we'll have a little, we'll have a little more separation from like the blast radius around it. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so the recommendation corner pick for this week is a band called Crushed. If you could tell by the name, like you can kind of tell sometimes that like a band's going to be a heavier shoogaze type band. And this is definitely what they do. But it's more kind of like the dancier version of shoe gaze. Like you can do, you can't go wrong with developing your entire sound off My Bloody Valentine soon.

And that's what this band does. It's a duo from L.A. Bree Morel is the vocalist, one of the vocalists who I last heard doing guest vocals on a turnover album. And Sean Durkin, who was in a, if we were going to talk about, I saw them at South by Southwest in 2011 type bands. He was in Weekend, not The Weekend, but Weekend, I believe they were like a Slumberland band, like made kind of, like very, very noisy shoegaze, like kind of in a place to very strangers type beat. but you know this is a band that's been putting out singles for a while and one i mean they have like pretty recognizable samples that will please someone of you know your my age and tastes there's like one that there's like one drumbeat i remember from like a song on eels electro shock blues i think that

there's a semi charm life sample in the leads in the first song water lily um but you know it's a standout in this kind of subgenre I'm hearing a lot more of a lot of bands that are trying to do the sort of combination of like, you know, drum and bass with shoegays that was like really happening in the 90s. And, yeah, I mean, look, that stuff is just catnip to me. I still think that when I listen to soon,

32 years later, it still sounds like the future of music. But, you know, this band is doing it in a way that shows they've got a lot more craft than a lot of the younger artists I hear these days doing it. So yeah, crushed, extra life. I mean this in the nicest way because I've heard people say the same thing about the Caroline Polichick and like Kalila albums. It sounds like stuff I would hear shopping at structure in 1996. Like if I'm buying like slightly more expensive jeans, this will make me feel cool. I mean that as the highest compliment. Well, you were just talking about the future

of music, and I'm going to talk about a band that is endlessly recycled the past of music, and that is the Brian Jones Town Massacre. Yes, I am putting the Brian Jones Town Massacre in Recommendation Corner, which I did not expect to do. But what happened recently, I was talking about the greatest hits album, Teppid Peppermint Wonderland,

which is one of the greatest hits albums of all time, especially if you factor in a greatest hits album that takes a discography, that's a total mess. that's a total mess and somehow crafts just a perfect album out of it. That is true of Tepet, Peppermint Wonderland.

I tweeted about that last week and lots of people, to my surprise, came out of the woodwork and talked about how that's one of their all-time great sort of car albums, driving around, listening to that record. Some of those people were saying, hey, you should check out the new Brian Jones Town Massacre album,

which happened to come out the day that I tweeted about the greatest hits album, and that album is called The Future is Your Past. And look, this is a band, you mentioned guided by voices earlier, this is a band like guided by voices. They put out a lot of records. I can't say that I've really kept up with a lot of the recent work. But I have to say, this new album, really good.

Really good album, if you like the old hits from this band, I think you're going to like this album. Basically, Brian Johnson Massacre, with a few exceptions, they're basically like ACDC, or the Ramones. They have a formula, they stick to it, and they're really at their best when they don't stray too far from that. And that is what they do on this record. A lot of sort of psych rock droney jams. That spotlight, what I think is Anton Newcom's underrated melodicism. Like the guy is a tune smith. Again, going back to that greatest hits album, Tepid Peppermint Wonderland, he is sort of like a garage rock Tom Petty on that album. There's just bangor after banger on that record.

for all their excess and all the sort of craziness of that band, and again, we talked about Dig recently on this show. That's a great documentary. I think he is maybe sort of a clownish persona among a lot of people who don't listen to the band, but he's actually written quite a few good songs and even great songs, and this new album was surprisingly good. I really enjoyed it.

So if you like this band, put this album on this weekend. I think you'll enjoy it. It's a good beer-drinking album. I love how you compare this band. to ACDC and the Ramones when like the one thing I know the most about Bryant-Chonestown Massacre is them saying,

you broke my sit-tar. You know, like the least, the most anti-Sit-Tar bands imaginable. But yeah, I get it though. The quote, the quote is,

you broke my sit-tar motherfucker is the entire quote. You can't leave up the motherfucker there. I meant in terms of consistency, in terms of having a formula and you just kind of do the same thing over and over again, but it's great when those bands do it

because that's what you want. You wouldn't want ACDC to have like a turntablist on stage. You wouldn't want the Ramones to do like a, their orchestral pop record. You want them to be down and dirty to do their thing. That's what Brian Joneson, Tom Massacre, is doing on this new record. So definitely check it out.

That is all the time we have on this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more reviews and news and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.