Indiecast - New Albums By Pearl Jam and Cloud Nothings + Is It Better To Bomb At Coachella Than Succeed?

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

Steven and Ian begin this week’s episode by talking about shows they plan on seeing this weekend — Ian is going to check out the buzzy retro-pop master Cindy Lee (3:56) while Steven is venturing to Las Vegas to see Phish play the Sphere (0:29). They also briefly touch on the iffy-looking Taylor Swift album out today, The Tortured Poets Department, which has high “unintentional comedy” potential (12:16).From there they follow up on last week’s Coachella discussion to cover some of the festival’s viral performances, which also happen to be the biggest trainwrecks of the opening weekend: Blur’s indifferently received spot and Grimes’ glitch-filled DJ set (18:07). Then they review two albums out today by veteran rock acts: Pearl Jam’s Dark Matter (25:36)and Cloud Nothings’ Final Summer (39.18). Do they still have the juice? The guys hash it out.In Recommendation Corner, Ian recommends Chanel Beads and Steven raves about the new single by Ben Seratan (50:06).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 185 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indicast is presented by Uprocks's Indie Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndieCast. On the show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, VUBU albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about some hilarious fails at Coachella and new albums from Pearl Jam and Cloud Nothings. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. You might want to say goodbye to me before I see Fish at the Sphere this weekend.

Ian Cohen, Ian Hoagin. are you? I mean, that implies that you're engraved, you know, physical or mental danger by going see fish at the sphere whereas I can think of very few places that were be more safe and welcoming for Stephen Hayden in 2020. Yeah. You're going to have a great fucking time, dude. I'm like, I'm going to have a great time. I'm worried you're not going to like come back. You're going to go like full like time crisis and that's going to be the end of Indycast. Well, maybe so. Maybe that's what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm going to be like Dennis Hopper and a podcast. now and I'm just staying in the jungle with Marlon Brando and, uh, you know,

ranting about numbers and shapes and all that stuff. Um, yeah, I mean, I'm excited. I'm going to go to Vegas on Saturday, which just happens to be 420. So I'm going to see fish on 420 at the sphere and then I'll also be there the next day. So I'm seeing two shows of the four shows, uh, fish is playing at the sphere. And it's my goal, I think at this point. to see every old rock band that plays the sphere, because I saw you too there. I wrote about that. I'm going to go see Fish.

I'm going to write about that. Dead and Co is next. I don't have a ticket for that, but if anyone involved in the Dead and Co. organization is listening, and they want to hook me up with a press pass, I'll go see Dead and Co for sure at Sphere. I don't know if you've been reading about this at all.

Ian, probably not. You're not on Jamvan Twitter like I am. But these shows sound amazing. Like, they're committed to doing four unique shows, so no repeats. So, which means that you have this incredible apparatus at the sphere with the visuals that presumably you can't really plan for because you don't know what they're going to play. They're going to be improvising. Apparently, Fish built a minisphere at the rehearsal space, like a replica.

I don't know how close it. is to the actual sphere. That's like what Frank Ocean tried to do at Coachella a year ago, and he couldn't pull it off. Exactly. He was trying to do that, but he didn't have the organization of fish. But yeah, they built a minisphere where they've been, I think they've been rehearsing in the minisphere. And they have this production designer. I don't know if that's the proper title, but this woman who worked on Roger Waters, the wall tour, she did like the light for talking heads when they did stop making sense. Like she just has an incredible resume.

It just sounds like it could be potentially very cool. She's been listening to old jams apparently, and they're trying to figure out how they can shape the imagery to how the band is playing. I don't know, man. It could be incredible. I'm definitely excited about it. I do think it could melt my brain.

I could be like Jack Nicholson at the end of One Flew of the Cuckoo's Nest. I'm just lobotomized with a lopiose. blanks look on my face, but... Classic movie cast so far. We're Dennis Hopper and Jack Nicholson. Yeah, we're killing it right now. Yeah, we are roping in the... I'm going straight...

I'm going straight New Hollywood here, 70s cinema. You are going to see Cindy Lee in San Diego, I guess on Friday, the 19th, the day that this podcast post. Cindy Lee, of course, the toast of the indie rock world at the moment, Diamond Jubilee, their double album, 32 songs. I wrote about this album this week, wrote about it being, I wrote about the album,

but I also wrote about the slow burn of this record, although it's not that slow. It's only been out a month, but it really is like the feel-good indie rock story of early 2024. I heard about the album from you, because you did Recommendation Corner on Cindy Lee, I think the week after it came out.

And there's just been all this buzz, about it, and then Pitchfork finally reviewed it last week, gave it their highest score since fetched the bolt cutters, I believe. Yep. You must have gotten in early. I imagine this is a hot ticket. I straight up bought this. The moment I saw that review post, I'm like, yeah, I better get on this shit. And I did. And yeah, it ended up selling out. It was so funny. Like, I have this coworker who's partner, like, took her to a hotline TNT show at the same venue. And I told her, like, told her about it. And she's like, oh, that's okay.

It's okay if I missed the show. I'll listen to it on Spotify. And I'm like, uh, let me tell you something. But, yeah, I know it's like a tough ticket. It's not on Spotify, by the way, we should say, because you don't know, this album, you have to go to YouTube or there is a GeoCities site where you can download the wave files for free, although you're encouraged to pay

$30 Canadian because the artist is originally from Canada currently based in Durham, North Carolina. But yeah, I mean, I've watched YouTube clips of their live performances and it's like really cool and kind of theatrical looking. Yeah, it kind of undermines my expectations for like, this is not a real pitchfork hype band

because, you know, when you would see clap your hands say, yeah, or waves or any of the bands that have like a similar effect from like one rave review out of nowhere, they would just be so unprepared for the moment. But I think this one's going to be, I think this one's going to be super cool. Is that like a 250, 300-Cap venue in San Diego? I know the New York and Chicago shows are probably just going to be wild in their own way,

not like, you know, like turnstiles, like when glow on first came out. But every single writer in every single writer and or blog reader in that, entire metro area is going to be there. But my only concern, it's a three-band bill. Freak Heat Waves is opening. They're a good band. I'm stoked to see that as well. And, you know, but it starts, like, doors are at 7.30.

I'm like, do I really want to stay up past 11? And I'm going to do it because I'm writing about this, too. You know, not just writing about the show, but what we talk about when we talk about Cindy Lee, which, you know, blogging's back, y'all. the way people want to, want to frame it. I mean, I think we get this nice little interlude before,

you know, right in between, as you mentioned, uh, Beyonce and Taylor Swift, you know, we get, we get our little moment.

Yeah, I mean, I wrote about this in my column that along with being a great record, I think one of the appeals of this album is the experience of it. It does feel like how the internet used to feel when you would go to blogs and you would discover things that you had,

heard of before, instead of just going to social media and having content thrown at you all day long. That's how it felt to me. It reminded me of how I listen to music in the aughts. And I think that experience adds to the record. Also, you know, just the idea of pitchfork giving that kind of score to an artist that, I mean, you know, Patrick Flago, who is the artist who performed. of Cindy Lee. I mean, it's not like

like they're a new artist. I mean, there is like a long resume there going back to, you know, being a member of women back in the 2000s. But it does feel like, oh, the only albums that kind of get this kind of shine are either huge

pop records or like indie albums that are, have like a PR apparatus behind them. And look, there's a lot of artists I love that have that. I mean, Waxahatchie would an example. You aren't surprised when that album does really well. It's a great record, but you know, there is an apparatus behind it that is helping to spread the word. And then you have this record

where there's no PR campaign. You know, again, it's just being thrown up on a Geo City site. I don't know, it's refreshing. I think that's part of why people are responding to this record. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, some of the biggest proponents of this album are, you know, Aquarium Drunkard, Passion of the Wyss, Gorilla versus Bear, like all these blogs that we've been reading since, like, 2005 or 2008. And, I mean, I always like to remind people, because, like, this is the stuff that occupies my mind, like the final line of the original pitchfork review of clap your hands say yes. Like, maybe this is how it's supposed to work. And I think that, like, I think that maybe overstates how things worked in 2010.

I mean, like, grizzly bear, animal collective, they had apparatuses behind them too. but I think it just kind of goes, it was this like kind of interesting, like, wield of power at a time, you know, for many, many, many reasons that writers and music fans feel pretty powerless. So, yeah, I think it, it's cool that it happened. Is it signifying some sort of overall vibe change? I don't know. Will it inspire other similar things to happen?

Probably not. But, you know, let's just enjoy this for what it is, you know, at least until, you know, we see what happens. with us still house plants. That's another album that is giving me a lot of like mid to late aughts indie rock sort of energy, but you know, in a much different way, you know, because that, that, you mentioned this is like clocking at a 99 on Metacritic right now. 99 on Metacritic. Yes. Unbelievable. This is like Tom Brady being drafted at 199, you know, in terms of our fantasy draft. I mean, we didn't even draft still houseplants.

and putting up historic numbers. I mean, you know, we talk about drafting the jazz artist that has the crossover appeal with indie critics. We really need to scout the British buzz band that is going to get rave reviews from the British press. That is like money we are leaving on the table. Yeah, the fantasy draft. I mean, English teacher, I mean, that's clocking in a 92.

And that's how I'm on Universal. So that's like a major label album. But I love the possibility. this is going to lead us to we did movie cast we're going to do a little sports cast like after Kobe and Kevin Garnett the NBA would

NBA teams of draft people like Corleone Young and Leon Smith thinking they had like the next high school phenom and they just flame out spectacularly so I'm looking forward to Q3 and Q4 we're just going to take these like ridiculous flyers

on a band we read about like once on the quietest it's going to rule. Yeah it's like like, okay, there's a British band called Garbage Truck, putting out a record. I don't know this band, but I'm going to draft it. Jazz and Fluence Experimental UK Post Punk, you know, and they sort of sound like, they use rhythmic singing like Life Without Buildings did. I mean, we're going to start our own fake band.

We're going to AI this shit and see if we can at least get like a mention on the wire or something like that, the magazine, not the television. show. It's like, oh, there's a British band called Garden Rake and they sound like the fall. All right. Number one draft pick. We really are living in the mid-aughts if the fall is back in fucking fashion, man. Well, to pivot off the beloved indie rock upstart to a gigantic pop star, we would be remiss as a music podcast if we didn't at least acknowledge that there's a new Taylor Swift album out today. It's called the Tortured Poets Department. And I don't want to spend a lot of time on this. My main

interest in talking about this album is that based on the advance leaks that have happened and they're not all leaks, I mean, some of these things Taylor Swift has done herself like posting lyrics from this album. It seems like

the potential for this being an unintentionally hilarious Taylor Swift album is like pretty high. Like there's some serious fail potential here. And we've already talked about how, you know, Taylor Swift has become so ubiquitously praised that it feels like there's some sort of market correction coming her way, no matter how good or bad this album is. But I don't know if you saw this, but on Taylor Swift's social media accounts, she posted this week some photos of a lyric sheet that looks like it was dipped in tea or something to like make it look old.

and then it was put like in an old-timey typewriter and there's some lyrics from the album on there and I think there's it's like lyrics that she's already put out there I want to pull this up here I want to be able to quote these but it's funny because it's made to look like these lyrics were typed out by Sylvia Plath in like 1961 but the piece of paper that's been aged to look old also has the Spotify logo on it, which is like, wow, this old-timey typewriter has the Spotify font and logo.

That's pretty amazing. That's pretty prescient for that. I'm just looking at the lyrics here. And so I enter into evidence, my tarnished coat of arms, my muses acquired like bruises, my talisman and charms, the tick, tick, tick of. Love Bombs. Damn. My veins of pitch black ink. There's another lyric that she put out where she references Charlie Puth.

Have you seen that one? Yeah, that one rules. Like this is, like this is, and again, like this whole promo cycle to what we've been, what we've even been privy to. It has like potential, like, it has real like pop star never stop, never stopping sort of vibes. but like if she really like leaned into it as comedy she's either like the funniest artist in the world or just like completely lost the plot by the way i gotta give you a shout you absolutely nailed the sylvia plath date she died in 1963 you said 1961 nailed it yeah well you know i made a joke about this on twitter and i actually did look up sylvia platt to make sure because i knew she

died in the 60s i didn't know exactly when so i i did research that joke before i made I'm not so Sylvia Plath-pilled that I could just drop, you know, date references with her. So, but anyway, yeah, this Taylor Swift record, I don't know. I'm very curious to see how it gets received. I mean, my main interest in Taylor Swift isn't really about her music. I'm not really a fan of her music. I can respect that it's very well put together, but it doesn't really move me at all on an emotional level. My interest in Taylor Swift is her as a creature of pure capitalism.

You know, how she navigates the music industry, which she's very good at. She's obviously a genius in terms of just maneuvering in the industry and positioning herself for success. I don't think there's any question about her canniness in that regard, which makes it interesting when maybe she has a misstep. And it seems like this could be, I don't know, we'll see. We could be wrong. This could be getting like still house plant numbers. our next show, who knows. But you drafted this album, right?

Or did I draft it? No, that was totally you. As a matter of fact, I kind of wish I did. Because, man, Nia Archives is just fucking, she is crapping out for me, man. That is a misfire for real. I think that that is a 77. There's no way I'm catching up to you.

Well, this Taylor Swift record, though, I don't know. I mean, I'm really counting on the general interest publications, just rubber stamping 100s on this album. Well, actually Rolling Stone doesn't give star reviews anymore. So if it gets instant classic, I think that qualifies as five stars. But I'm not like holding my breath. I think what I'm anticipating is that you might see some, you know, hit pieces or pans coming from, I don't know, some smaller publications or maybe like a stereo gum premature evaluation. It's a little dim on it, but by and large, I think this always happens.

We always think, oh, is this the one where people turn? And, you know, they never do. But something does feel a little different this time around. Like, it really, really does. It feels like there's the highest flop potential since she put out me. That was the one, right? Where it's like she's got to be fucking kidding, right? That's like the worst.

That's not just her worst song. It's one of the worst songs of, like, the last. Five years. Yeah. That's a song that she did with... Brendan Yuri. Yeah. It's not only is it called me with an exclamation point.

She dragged the panic at the disco dude in there, too. It's like, come on. This is egregiously stupid. So there's another album out today. It's called Dark Matter. It's by Pearl Jam. We're going to talk about that in a minute. But before we get to that,

I feel like we have to follow up on our conversation about Coachella last week because we were talking about how the ticket sales, for the second weekend, which is the weekend that we're at now, have been a little lagging. I don't know if they've picked up now in the past week after the first weekend. But, you know, we were sort of throwing dirt on the grave of Coachella a little bit.

And I have to say, we might have been a little premature because there were some viral moments from the festival last weekend, but they were both Coachella fails, essentially. You had Blur performing, at Coachella, but the second time, right? They performed like 10 years ago. Yeah, I saw them in 2013 and, you know, I've referenced this every other week on Twitter

because it's one of the most amazing events of like the past 15 years that Coachella had the Stone Roses headlining on Friday night, which is like, you know, usually like the weakest of the three. And they bombed so hard that they switched, they pulled a switcheroo for Weekend 2. like Blur, I think, was like the second from the top. So Blur headlined the next weekend. And, you know, they weren't really, uh, they, they sort of bombed too, but just not as noticeably.

It's been a while since I think weekend two, like, provided us any real viral content. But yeah, they did it in 2013. I would think that Blur's, like, reputation, um, or has, I don't know, risen or if not gone down. Like, I- Well, apparently not. now with the younger generation because this performance that went viral was Blur doing girls and boys one of their big Brit pop hits of the mid-90s

and Damon Alburn is trying to do that frontman thing where you get the crowd to sing along with the chorus and he forgot that these people in the audience were born like 10 years after this song was a hit like and maybe that's being generous could be like more than that. They don't know this song. It's a hard song to sing along with too. The chorus is tricky. You know, if it were a song like, say, Wonderwall,

I think they would probably sing it. Because even if you don't know who Oasis is, that song is carried, I think. And it's also a very easy song to sing. And it's also a better song, and Oasis is better than Blur and yada, yada, yada. But anyway, Damon Allburn got a little upset. I think he said something like,

sing along with this, because you're never going to see us again, which is a funny thing to say because he's going to be back there the next weekend. I guess maybe this audience won't see him again. So there was that. And then there was Grimes performing. And she had some sort of like technical malfunction

where her program beats because she was doing a DJ set. But she had these beats, I think, that were programmed wrong. Like they were too fast. Like, am I getting that right? Yeah, I think what. And again,

I can relate. This is like one of the most relatable Grimes moments that she could possibly have, you know, post Elon Musk, which is that I think she like outsourced her beat matching or what have you to like an intern. And when it came time to like do the presentation like it fucked up completely. And you know, people are saying like, oh, Grimes isn't a real DJ. Like not that was ever like really in question, but like she just had no idea how to handle this stuff on the fly. don't know who would, but yeah, I mean, I've been there at my real job. We've had like interns who we let do some job like, hey, you know, proofread this, help us out with this. And then the

presentation comes. It's like, oh, right, they came in, hung over every day. It's honestly, like, I find it hard to feel bad for Grimes in any way, but, you know, I think at this point, like, she might even be underrated. Like, her music holds up really well. I just wish she wouldn't say stupid shit all the time. I even thought her last record was pretty good. It's weird because it got good reviews and then I feel like people instantly

disowned their good reviews. Like when Pitchfork did their re-review their albums thing, like that was one of the albums they re-reviewed. And I think it was like the same year or maybe like a year later. I wrote about this on the substack and it like it was it got like best new music

and it was like number 24 on the year on list and then like three months later they're like this album sucks. So like there was like a weird time where it was like underrated and then it's like overrated. It's just because she was, it's Elon Musk, right? I mean, I just feel like that's why people, because she's with Elon Musk and now it's like, oh, now we don't like the record anymore. I don't know.

I'm not like a huge Grimes person, but I'm with you. I feel like the backlash against her. And she said like a lot of dumb things too. Like she's not the sharpest tool in the shed to quote, Smash mouth, but, you know, she's made some good records. So, like, don't be too hard on Grimes. What I was thinking about with Coachella is, like, is there brand now, like, people screwing up?

Because it feels like that's the way you go viral at Coachella. I mean, I know people are trying to hype up Sublime last weekend. Like, that was kind of a viral moment, I guess, because Sublime performed with Bradley Noel's son and there were a lot of people who apparently thought this was good. I don't know if you watched that video. I thought it was awful. I'm sorry. I'm sorry your dad passed away.

It's very sad. I like the idea of you performing with his old band, but I don't know. I thought he was over-singing and sounded really terrible. And also Sublime is awful. I live in Southern California. I don't need to actively search out like, that sublime cover bands, you know? That is the most egregious millennial nostalgia.

I think that there is. This thing about how sublime is a great band. Sure. You know, like millennials, I'm sorry, there's like a lot of terrible late 90s music that millennials are hyping up. And now I know that these same people are going to come back at me in a few minutes when I talk about this new Pearl Jam album.

So maybe this could be some hypocritical accusations. being made, but anyway, Sublime. We've made the distinction between Sublime era 90s and like Alt Rock Radio and Top 40 Rock Radio. So Sublime and Pearl Jam occupy different universes. If millennials want to come

at us, we are fucking ready. I mean, I'm kind of a millennial. I'm like in between millennial and Gen X. But I guess I lean Gen X and one of the ways that manifests itself is that I'm like Pearl Jam and I don't like sublime. Maybe that's like

how you define, like if you're an ex-annial born between 77 and 83. That's like the between generation between Gen Xers and millennials and I was born in 77, so I'm right, I just kind of sneak into that mid-generation. It's the

Sublime versus Pearl Jam question. Maybe that's it. That's how you define it. Speaking of which, let's talk about Pearl Jam. They have a new album out. Today, it's called Dark Matter. It's their 12th album, their first and four years, their last record. And I know you know this album, Ian. I'm sure you listen to it all the time. Gigaton. Have you ever listened to Gigatun? Came out in 2020? I love how Gigatun, Dark Matter the album covers and just the names like make

me think that like Pearl Jam is kind of like a Mastodon type band. There's like there's like a lot of like kind of like Prague metal shit going on, especially with this. this new album cover. I joke that it was like getting kind of tool with it, but... Right. It is very tool. Like, yeah. Or like late period rush. Yes. You know, like a lot of their album covers look like that.

I mean, Pearl Jam's history of album covers is pretty dicey. Yeah, you're right. They don't have, like, they're like, they don't have a very high batting average with their album covers. Like, I would say I like the cover for verses and I like the cover for Vitology. But you like the verses one?

I guess. Yeah, I guess I'm just used to it. Vitology cover, I think, is good. Yeah. And I like the no code cover. But, like, a lot of their covers, just, I mean, they have, like, the avocado record. Like, what the fuck is that? I don't know.

Anyway, I don't want to be negative here because this new record, the headline on my review on Uprocks that ran this week is, this is their best album in decades. And, like, look, I know that's a critical cliche. When I wrote the headline, I was like, okay, people are going to clown me for this. They're going to be like, oh, this is like saying it's the best Stones album since Tattoo You or the best Bob Dylan album since Blood on the Tracks. I acknowledge this. I acknowledge that it's a cliche. But you know what? Clisets sometimes get people in the door.

I just want people to click on the review. And I think it is like an honest reflection of what I think. I think in terms of Pearl Jam albums, and look, my knowledge of late period Pearl Jam, I'll put up against any music critic on this. the planet. I don't think most people would even want to have that kind of knowledge. But I think that this is their best record since at least Riot Act in 2002 and maybe

even going back to yield. So now we're getting into the 90s. It actually reminds me a lot of yield. And that that record, I think, is the most straightforward version of Pearl Jam in pop rock mode. When they're just writing

really catchy, poppy rock songs. which I think is a really underrated side of this band. And I think it's like one of their strongest attributes, just the ability to write songs that sound good on the radio. And it's funny because when Pearl Jam puts out a record, they have this textbook or this guide that they always follow where they usually say ahead of time that this record is going to be really heavy.

And that's what they said before this one. I think Mike McCready didn't interview where he said. it's a lot heavier than you might expect. And then the singles that they put out are always the quote, heavy songs. And that's what they did with this record. The title track, there's another song called Running. And they're fine, but I think

some of the weakest songs on the album. Elsewhere on the record, you have this song Waiting for Stevie, which sounds like an homage to, like, all of the hits from 10. You know, you've got a riff that kind of sounds like a faster version of black you have this outro

Mike McCready guitar solo which is like I'm just going to redo what I did on a live but in a good way like he's ripping himself off but like he deserves to rip himself off

he does it brilliantly that's a great song there's another song called wreckage which kind of sounds like a Tom Petty song like that's a really good song I don't know to me

this is a record where they're kind of leaning into their strengths they made it very quickly. It has a great live sound to it. It was produced by Andrew Watt, who did the Rolling Stones record last year. I referred to him as the AARP Antonoff, because he's like the Jack Antonoff of aging rock bands.

There's some corny things that he does, and his record sound kind of plasticy and very slick, but he is able to basically rock star whisper his way to these old bands, making songs that sound like their best material, like kind of re-plugging into that. So for that, I have to really praise him. I think, again, I don't love his production style all the time,

but I think in terms of him coaching up these bands, and actually, I mean, he co-wrote a lot of these songs, too, on this Pearl Jam record, which is slightly concerning to me. It's a little like Desmond Child coming into, like, late period, Aerosmith. Like, that throws me off a little bit, but I don't know. The dude got results, and I think this is a shockingly good late period Pearl Jam record. Did you respond to this album at all?

Like, I'm curious, like, what you would think. Yeah, I mean, I do want to talk about dark matter, but now that you've implanted the idea of Desmond Child working with Aerosmith, I'm wondering, like, if Eddie Vedder could do it, you know, make their version of Aerosmith's Angel or, like, tell me what it takes. or like I want to hear Pearl Jam just go like post rehab total power balance style because I think that could be an interesting wrinkle like why not but as far as like what this record brings to the table it's really the I mean you mentioned the best since yield and as far as

I'm concerned that could be true if be if only because it's like the first Pearl Jam I'm like intently listen to since yield despite what you despite what might you might assume from you know, our relative output is music writers. This is a dual Pearl Jam podcast, okay? Like, I am a Pearl Jam guy. Ten was the first, I had 10 in the long box. I owned the Stickman T-shirt. You know, I bought all the albums up to yield.

And then I'm like, wait a minute, is this band still good? And then I also bought by NARL. I listened to that maybe once. Underrated record. Nothing as it seems is a good song. But so, like, I'm a good song. I have almost no context to judge what a 21st century Pearl Jam album sounds like. You know, the fact that Andrew Watt is behind it.

I mean, I think of, I don't want to think of Pearl Jam as like being along the same lines as like the Rolling Stones or Ozzy Osbourne or the other people. Andrew Watt has written for of late. But also, it came on like an extremely locked down like streaming platform. So I had to like refresh my phone screen every five minutes. but this sounded pretty damn good. Like, wreckage is a really good song. I mean, like, if Pearl Jam trying to make like a Tom Petty album, that would be appealing to me.

And I think just, I mean, the most interesting thing about listening to a Pearl Jam album in 2024 is that nobody sings like Eddie Vedder anymore. Whereas for so many formative years of my life, everyone did. And, you know, it's like, it's such an interesting change of pace that it's, it's going to sound like almost like avant-garde in its own sort of way. And also like I haven't heard any like Pearl Jam songs. Like the classic rock stations that would play Pearl Jam songs, they are definitely not playing anything from like even like post-vitology, I would say.

Like no, maybe given to fly like might still get some run. But other than that or do the evolution, man, I'm like, I'm like feeling myself with this like basic Girl Jam guy talk. Yeah, drop it some yield. tracks I like it. Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the reasons why I wanted to write a book about this band, which by the way, I'm talking about Long Road, which you can get at your nearest bookstore, is that they've had, I think, a really fascinating and sort of weird career where, you know, we're talking about radio songs. Like, their highest charting hit is that cover of Last Kiss.

Oh, yeah. I don't know if you remember that, which you never hear you. I absolutely remember that. That in Yellow Ledbetter for a time, like, their biggest hits. But, I mean, like, last kiss, like, actually charted. I think it was, like, in the top five. Like, it was a pop hit. And that song, I mean, like, Pearl Jam doesn't play very much. Like, you never hear that anymore, even though, again, it's, like, this big rock bands, like, one of their biggest hits.

Sort of an interesting wrinkle in their career. But, yeah, I mean, you know, like, in the last 15 years, you know, Pearl Jam has followed the radio head route. essentially where they, you know, they once were a pretty prolific band and now their recorded output has just slowed to a trickle. I mean, this new album is coming relatively quick given that like when Gigaton came out, that was like their first record in like seven years. You know, so the emphasis on making new records has really, you know, been taken off in recent years. and they've really just committed themselves to being a live band. I mean, I wrote about this in my review.

I mean, the first sentence is, does the world need another Pearl Jam record? You know, because I think that's a legitimate question, and it's a question that I suspect the band members themselves have asked because it just seems like the urgency to create new songs or at least to put those songs out on an album hasn't been around. But I don't know. This record, it's the first time in a long time,

long time that I can remember where it sounds like they're actually enjoying themselves making a record. I mean, gig a ton. There's some songs on there that I like, but it's kind of a joyless record. You know, like, it was constructed over many years out of like just this mountain of material that each band member worked on on their own, and then they would bring it to the band, and there would be like some overdubs happening. And this record, it's like they worked for three weeks. It seems like they knocked it out in a way that's similar to what they did in the 90s. I mean, this record isn't as ragged as like tautology or no code or anything like that, but it does have the energy, I think, or at least it approximates the energy of those records.

And it's the kind of album where even the songs that I don't think are great still sound like pretty good. You know, like, oh, it's like they're bashing it out. So I don't know. It's a really good record. I enjoy it a lot. And I'm happy to hear these guys having a good time in the studio. So I think our takeaways from Dark Matter, yes, best Pearl Jam album in like literally decades. You can say like 25 or 30 years. Also, I don't think our conversation has really sold to the listener, just how bad a lot of these Pearl Jam cover art is. I was looking through Lightning Bolt. what was the other one that came out? Like Lightning Bolt is just like abominable.

Backspacer looks like a Melvin's album from like 1996, which may be sort of the point, but oh my gosh. Like, you know, I love me some bands that have like some, I would say erratic cover art, Jimmy Eat, World and Deftones being amongst them. But man, this is why you got to keep up with Pearl Jam Allen's the same way that Steve does, because you're just not prepared.

Like, I would... I mean, their most famous album, 10, has a terrible cover. I kind of like a cover. I kind of like it. I mean, come on. Like, when they re-released it, they tried to, you know,

do a darker color scheme. They did. Because, you know, like the purplish pink cover where they're all doing the high five. I mean, that cover, I do love it just because it is a part of my childhood. Yeah. So just in the same way that the versus cover, like, I love it.

But if you just showed that to me in a void without any sentimental attachment to it, I'd probably be like, I don't know about this cover. Yeah, it's, there's no mystery as to like why Nirvana and Pearl Jam were seen as having played very, very different games in 1991. Also, I had 10 in the long box, so you get like the entire band, like you see their shoes and shit. And of course, Jeff Amet has, I think like some like wild ass air Jordan's on. So it's iconic, but it's also terrible. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, at least they're consistent with it. They're consistent with the terrible art cover choices.

But, yeah, there should be a, maybe I'll do a ranking of Pearl Jam album covers. That would be a tough one to write. I think Vitology, easily number one. Yes. No code, easily number two. I mean, the yield cover, I think, is pretty corny. It's not good. It's like, but that might be number three.

Binaural's okay. Yeah. Riot act terrible. Self-title, awful. But like over the top. I hate the avocado cover. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad.

But good album. Dark Matter. You enjoy the album. And Godspeed to Pearl Jam. Let's talk about Cloud Nothings. They have an album out today called Final Summer. This is their eighth. album if you can believe that and you know this is a really good record I'm going to say that

off the top here I'm really enjoying this album this is probably my favorite album that they've done in a while I mean I feel like I'm saying this about every album today it's my favorite album that they've done in a while but it's true but I was thinking about cloud nothings and how there are another band that has like sneaky longevity where you step back and you're like holy crap, this band has been around now almost 15 years. And I was thinking about my own history with this band. I remember writing about

the self-titled record that came out in 2011. And they were like a much different band at that point. They were more of like a bedroom pop band. And I think I don't know if like Dylan Baldy was basically working by himself at that point.

He was. Yeah, he was. So I remember writing about that record really enjoying it. I think I put it on my year end list that year. And at the time, I was working for the AV club. And the AV club had this little street festival in Chicago where they would have bands play. And I was encouraging the powers that be to book Cloud Nothings. And they played there in 2012. And I don't think Attack on Memory was out yet, but they were playing the Attack on Memory songs. And They were just a totally different band. You know, they were now like, oh, we're, you know, we got the Steve Albini heavy bottom end. I mean, they didn't have Steve Albini producing their live show. But you know what I mean? Like they had like that 90s just pulverizing thing going on.

And that's when they became the band that they are now. I feel like this is a band where if you like them, I think everyone agrees that they're like a consistently good. and sometimes great band. But they've never had the big hit or the big defining moment. Attack on Memory is the closest I think they have to that.

But even that year, they were overshadowed in the indie rock dude lane by Japan droids. Because that was the year of Celebration Rock. That was the album that really took home that vote, that voting block.

And then those people would also have a tack on memory on their list, but maybe it'd be like the next record or the third or fourth record. So they've never been like the band at any point, but they've managed to stick around. And it's a very interesting trajectory, and it seems almost impossible to pull it off. It's like, how did this band make it this long, essentially? because you feel like a band like this at some point economically or maybe just in terms of like irrelevance

you'd feel like I don't know if I can do this anymore but they've really stayed the course in a way that I think is really impressive and again you have this record out today Final Summer which I think is one of their best records it's the kind of album like every time I put it on I'm always surprised when it ends like when the last track plays

I'm always like what this album's over already because I mean it's only 32 minutes long but it feels shorter than that like it moves very well it's very well sequenced and again it just it feels like it goes by in 15 minutes and so yeah I don't know

it's just weird to think of this as like a legacy band yeah I feel like they kind of snuck up on us in that way yeah I mean they've been releasing albums I mean, like when you said, this is Pearl Jamps, 12th album or something like that, like compared to like Cloud Nothing's making their eighth album. And even then, they've taken a lot more time between records than they used to because, I mean, they had turning on and then the self-titled, which was, I think, Dylan Baldiak making it by himself. And then they got Jason Geras to play drums, which is, in my view, maybe the most impactful

roster change of any indie rock band over the past 10 years. One of my favorite drummers, just an incredible. to watch live. And yeah, I mean, like, the leading up to this record, I think I've read it, I've read interviews with Dylan where he's, you know,

pretty level-headed about the band's career. I mean, he talks about, I was inspired by Vivian Girls and Times New Viking when I first got started. So he's been, you know, he's been like, he's been like a music critic guy from the jump.

And he's acknowledged that coming up in 2012, it was like probably the last time where a band like Cloud Nothings could like generate some career-making hype. And they've just kind of stayed the course making good albums over the past decade. I don't think any of them like match that attack on memory or here nowhere else. But what's been super interesting about this record is that leading up to it, they've kind of, and I think you've talked about this. the past how given enough time, the boundaries between perceived audiences of guitar-based rock

tend to dissolve. So they were like touring with the Menzinger's last year, which was like completely fucking unimaginable in 2012. But like, yeah, 10 years from then, of course someone would have on the impossible pass and attack on memory in the same record collection. They're playing fest this year. And of course, like someone's going to listen to attack on memory. and like you blew it. They're on pure noise records now, which is like, I think they're like maybe fifth

on the pecking order behind like C.U. Space Cowboy, the story so far and knocked loose. I mean, I think they've just kind of come to terms with the fact that like their audience is people who, and I say this with all love,

like think, listen to attack on memory and think, yeah, they don't make them like this anymore. And I just think it's... But they kind of don't, though. They don't. I mean the thing is that Yeah, there is like a melting Or a breakdown of boundaries between

Like Indy Rock and Emo Like that might have mattered in 2012 But doesn't matter now But there's also the matter of like Where are Cloud Nothing's contemporaries That started with them in the early 2010s? Like a lot of those bands aren't around anymore Or if they are they don't maybe draw as well

As they used to I mean If you're gonna be a band like Cloud Nothings Where you're around for 50s 15 years, you kind of have to be in the emo world because that's a loyal audience. It is. You know, they're going to come out and support you. Whereas, like, the audience for, you know, guitar-oriented indie rock, I mean, it's so

nebulous. I mean, that's really hard to define, I think, at this point. Yeah. So it makes sense for the reasons that you said that the audience for a band like Cloud Nothing's in the men singer, it seems like it's the same audience for the most part. but also, you know, just from a survival thing. I mean, like even Japan droids, like, where are they? You know, I don't know what the hell they're doing at this point.

And they're still a popular band, I think. They're just not active. But, yeah, I just think the way that Cloud Nothings have endured and, again, putting out consistently good albums. I mean, I think the knock on them for me anyway is that their albums sometimes blend together. I don't feel that, like, I can put on one of their albums and really enjoy it, but is it distinct in my mind from, like, another record?

Not really, you know. The thing I'll say about this new album is that I do think that this is a grabier record than they've made in a while. And, man, I don't want to keep saying the same critical cliche in this episode. I mean, I almost said this is their best album since Attack on Memory. but man, I'm really beating that horse a lot in this episode. So I'll just say I think this is a really good Cloud Nothing's record. It's a very good rock record.

Yeah. And I think it will be up there on the list of very good rock records that come out this year. Yeah, someone who, like, reviews Cloud Nothings in the same way that Steve reviews Pearl Jam albums, which is to say consistently over the past year. Like, I would say this is my favorite of theirs since here and nowhere else, which means it's their best album in the decade, which means that it's like their best album. like in like six albums and like look i i i had kind of written them off because you know the last album they did um you know it was they got back together with steve albini and it just seemed like they were maybe kind of spinning their wheels like trying to draft on the on the on the goodwill of attack on memory but this they sound reinvigorated they have you know jeff ziegler

who's done some war on drugs records producing like sarah tudson's uh from illuminati hotties is on there and they just sound um you know they sound like they're ready to not, I'm like going to use the U2 cliche of like, you know, we're applying to be the biggest rock band in the world again when they made, you know, all that you can't leave behind. This, this band is like reapplying to be, I guess, the number 25 album of like a rock guy's list in the same way they were in 2014. I respect it. I like this record a lot. It, I really do. And yeah, I mean, unless like Japan droids come back or the men or waves or. Titus Andronic has come back to snatch the crown. In the early 2010's Royal Rumble of dudes rock bands, Cloud Nothing's on top.

Man, that should be a when we were a young festival. Like all those bands you mentioned. And it can just be 46-year-old people and beards drinking IPAs. We're going to recreate somewhere. We're going to restage pitchfork. It's like the act of killing. I mean, it's just like a horrifying movie, but we're going to do that except like for Pitchfork Festival 2011.

That'd be amazing. I mean, I can joke about it, but I'm on board. I'm on board with that for sure. Let's make it happen, people. We've now reached a part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So I was going to mention the new quote-unquote Menomina EP

because like that, boy, you want to talk about remembering some guys, but that's like three songs and like two of them are kind of old. I'd recommend it regardless. I'm yay on Monominas, but it exists, which is big news. But I want to talk about a album out today from an artist called Chanel Beads called Your Day Will Come. And I'm like kind of carefully walking out this statement. But this is kind of the model actress of 2024 in that every time, like every article I read about this or every article I read about this article. makes me like the album less because it's like it's so about new it all everything written about them

is about dime square written by people from dime square who can't imagine the universe outside of it that being said i've gotten enough lee time enjoying this album where i can kind of put that stuff to the side um maybe it's just the nostalgia for 2010 or so being triggered by cindy lee but this is like 100% altered zones core uh like atre nevo how to dress well maybe some you know pre-cancellation aerial pink in there but it's doing something like pretty distinct and it's also a very short album uh so it's a quick listen if like anything i just said there peels to you if you know what altered zones is which i think has kind of been overlooked in like all the oral histories of pitchfork as like a very important pivot um yeah chanelle beads will

absolutely satisfy that urge for you. Altered zones justice. Remember the altered zones, man. So I'm going to talk about a song today, not an album, but it's a long song. It's an eight-minute song. The song is called New Air, and it's the latest single, The New Single, from a guy named Ben Saritan. You might remember him.

He put out a record called Youth Pastoral in 2020, and it became, I don't want to say a hit, but it was like a word of mouth favorite among a certain subset of indie rock listeners. Very fun record, very enjoyable album. I know you're a fan as well. This new single, it's from an album that's coming out in July, July 26, called Alora. And it's a great song.

It's one of my favorite songs that I've heard so far this year. The best way I can describe this song is imagine someone trying to rewrite spiders, Kid Smoke. that's basically what this song is just lots of long guitar jams very spidery guitar very kidsmokey

guitar just beautiful stuff and I'm a sucker for that if you want a good review for me if you're an indie band out there just rip off spiders kid smoke it's a cheat code works with me every time I haven't heard the rest of this album yet I just got the promo

yesterday but this is the first song on the record and if the rest of the record is like this, I'm going to be very excited when we talk about it in July. Yeah, I have heard the record. I was one of the people who wrote about youth pastoral when it first dropped. And yeah, this record's great.

I was wondering what you would think about it because I was like thinking about mentioning this one, a recommendation corner as well because, yeah, I'm like hoping this gets like on season three of the bear. I can totally hear it. He looks like a guy who could work at that restaurant. Yeah, on Tiny Engines, they're back in effect.

This record's great. Yeah, this is definitely going to be a kind of dual Indycast endorsement. Yes, but yeah, we don't have the album yet, or you can't listen to the album yet, but listen to this song, listen to it many times. If you listen to it five times in a row, that's the length of an album, and it'd be a very good album. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends.

next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.