Indiecast - New Albums By Sam Fender And Cheekface

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Steven and Ian begin with a quick Sportscast on the Green Bay Packers proposing a ban on the Philadelphia Eagles' signature play, the tush push, some truly tattletale behavior (1:16). They also check in on the Fantasy Albums Draft, which appears to be breaking Steven's way (6:28). From there, they discuss the new album from Sam Fender, People Talking (15:20), and whether The War On Drugs now function as their own genre. They also review the latest from the LA band Cheekface (30:53).In Recommendation Corner, Ian gives the nod to the stoner emo band Cloakroom while Steven stumps for the new album from Panda Bear (56:04).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 228 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast on the show. We talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about new albums from Sam Fender and Cheekface. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He is no longer allowed to do the tush push on this podcast. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you?

You see, every regional variation of the two. Tush push has to have its own sort of nickname. So it's not the Tush Push here. It's more like, I don't know, like the Porch Force or the Chugel. I don't know what rhymes with Chugel, but. It'd be the emo push. The Midwest, the first one's got to rhyme with the second word. So like the emo extreme, I don't know.

I just feel like you're pushing the emo albums in the recommendation corner. So, you know, there could be an emo push. Right. That's like the end zone of this, of every episode. The Pitchfork 7.8. you pushing an emo album over the goal line. Yeah, so the Green Bay Packers, we're going to do a very, very quick sports cast here.

The Green Bay Packers made a proposal to the NFL to ban the Tush Push, the signature play of Ian's team, the Green Bay Packers. I'm sorry, the Philadelphia Eagles. Sorry, I'm just saying Packers over and over again. I feel like we had to bring this up because these are our teams,

It's a very famous play in the NFL. I hate the Tush Push. I think most people who aren't Eagles fans hate the Tush Push. It's just aesthetically a very boring play. It's automatic. If you had Sequin, Barclay in your fantasy league, you're probably upset. Although I think he still had a decent amount of touchdowns. Oh, yeah.

But he could have had like 35 touchdowns. But all of his were like 50 yards or whatever. He's like useless within the three yard line. That's why he had to bust all those long runs because they never give him the ball inside the five-yard line. So it's one of those things where I can look at it and say, oh yeah, I hate this play. But I also feel like this is my team looking like the tattletail in the class. It just feels a little weak, especially since the Packers got beat twice by the Eagles last season, including in the playoffs. I do subscribe to the idea that if you don't like a play,

You should learn to stop it. You shouldn't change the rules and outlaw it. So I don't know. I have mixed feelings about it. I wish it wasn't my team. I feel like the Packers are probably throwing themselves on a landmine here for every other team in the league. I'm sure there's no other team other than the Eagles that like wants this play to still

be legal. But it kind of sucks that your team is the one that like walked up to the teacher and told on the kid that is just beating up on everybody. Yeah, because I saw that the, like I saw, Like, I saw on Twitter that the Packers were doing this, and then I saw on ESPN simultaneously. It's like an unnamed team. So it's like really like the Simpsons episode. It's like an unknown agitator.

Let's just call a Lisa S. No, that's too obvious. Look, I know it's lame for like an Eagles fan to say this after they win the Super Bowl, but please ban this play. What? I ban it. You can't make that argument? I can because there's a unspoken rule in sports, at least amongst like discerning sports fans that, If it looks cool, the play stands.

Like, it, you know, it's like every so many times, like, you see, like, an incredible, like, O'Dell Beckham like catch, and they're like, oh, that's offensive pass interference or they didn't get the second foot down or the nose of the ball. Like, let it stand. Same way, like, you'll see, like, just an insane dunk. And it's like, oh, that's a charge. And it probably is a charge. But if it looks cool, let it stand.

I mean, with the tush push, I really think that, like, that Washington game where I never heard referee say if you don't stop this we're going to give them a touchdown i think that was like just a real uh real shock because like most people didn't know you could do that i think that the touch push right now is there's nothing fun about it it's sort of like hack a shack or um like a pitcher throwing um you know like like checking the runner at first base 10 straight times uh in the same way that if it looks cool with play stands if it's lame you got to ban the play i just think that even if you ban the play, and I don't know how you do it exactly because it's not a specific play, I guess you could say that you can't push the quarterback over the line. I guess that would be

the rule. But I mean, you have Jalen Hertz. The guy could bench press what, like 5,000 pounds or whatever. He's a super strong guy, which is what allows the Eagles to pull that play off. I mean, other teams have tried. Even, you know, the Packers do have their version of this with their tight end Tucker Kraft that has been successful in the past. So it's not like the Packers haven't done themselves. So, I mean, even if it's not called the tush push, I feel like the Eagles are still going to just have some play with Jalen Hertz at the goal line that is going to be unstoppable. So I don't know how effective this is going to be.

Again, I wish it wasn't my team doing it, but I also don't hate the change if that's what happens. So I guess we'll see. Peer pressure works. I think that's the ultimate goal. When the Eagles realize, oh, shit, this looks lame. Maybe they'll just stop doing it. Why would they care?

If they cared about that, they would have fired Nick Siriani last year. That's a very good point. If they cared about, like, perception, they don't care. If I were them, I'd keep doing it. I would just- I just don't want to see them become the chiefs. Like, win all the time? Well, when, not win all, like, yes, win all the time,

but like, look lame winning all the time, you know, where it gets kind of annoying to see them win all the time. It's lame to people who aren't winning all the time. They're the people who think it's lame. If you're winning all the time, it's awesome. It's just a bunch of hater-ass haters on the outside who don't like it. So you should aspire to be hated, I think, if you're an athlete. Or if you are in any field, I guess maybe that's a preview of what we're going to be talking about later in this episode.

Incredible segue. You're on a fire. Well, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here. Let's talk quick. We're going to do a quick fantasy album draft update here. We wanted to check on the murder capital. This is the last team or the last album on your team. Their album dropped last week.

What's that album called? Blindness. Blindness from the Murder Capital. They're a British band, I believe. They're Irish. They're Irish. Yeah. Sorry about that.

Yeah, I believe that they're Irish and that was kind of why I picked them because it's like, oh, I'm getting like kind of a dime store. Yeah, they're from Dublin. I figure, oh, like I'm just getting like a home. Fontaine's DC on the cheap here. Not at all the case, apparently. Yeah, this is more like a late period U2 album. Yeah, or stereophonics or something like that.

Like, what score are we at now with Merton? 76. Woo! Yeah. Uh-oh. You can usually survive like one album that maybe is scraping high 70s. I've got two of those this time around. That's tough.

I literally would have been better off picking Tate McCray. So I'm looking at my team. And my strategy going into this quarter was, I'm just going to go with Wiley Veterans. I don't think that any of my albums are going to sort of sweep the reviews. And I don't think I'm going to get any 90s this round, but I think I'm going to do like mid-80s or so. And I'm just going to be solid performers across the board. And I got to say, this strategy seems to be working for me, Ian. I mean, we have another month here where, you know, the might be late straggling reviews that'll adjust the scores.

I actually did have a hit on Barty Strange this week. The pitchfork review of his latest record horror dropped, and they gave it a 6.5, which dropped his overall score to 81. Still over the Mendoza line, though, so I'm happy with that. But the rest of my albums, I had Weather Station, 84, Horse Girl, 83, Sharon Van Nettin, 83, Bonnie Prince Billy 84. That is consistency, Holmes. I had the consistent just people coming out giving me that solid 83, 84 every time. I really think that, and look, I don't know if I'm going to win. I think I'm probably going to win this quarter, second quarter in a row.

It does feel like the strategy, because we've gone through different strategies with the fantasy album draft. We've said like, oh, go for the obscure jazz record that has indie crossover appeal. Go for like the British post-punk band that's going to get great. British reviews in the British press. I do think that a really good strategy is going with the veteran act that is going to get reviewed by the veteran music critic on staff or in the freelancer pool who is just going to give it a good review. Because if they don't like the record, they're just not going to write about it. But if they like the record, they're going

to give it a good review. And you're going to end up in the 80s. I think I'm looking for that going forward. I'm not going for like the sexy rookies. I'm going for like the free agents, you know, who, you know, they've made a couple all-star teams. You don't know if they're going to make the Hall of Fame eventually, but you know they're going to deliver. They're going to bat about 300, hit about 25 home runs, maybe give it about 80 RBIs every year, just solid performers. They're not going to tank. I feel like that strategy has done me well. Yeah, it's a very 2004 Pistons. just there are no superstars, just everyone putting on their hard hat and giving an honest effort. And yeah, I think that or just maybe like how like the trend is shifting like after this past year where like Derek Henry and Sequin Barkley like revitalize the running back as something like you should actually care about.

We have definitely seen a C change. I think with the way publications are changing now it's my old strategy is clearly no longer. effective. And what was your old strategy? Oh, my old strategy was the exact thing you say. Like, find the sexy one. Like, find, like, the kind of left-of-center R&B album. Find the British post-punk band, like the jazz one.

You know, maybe, like, if I stuck some of my old, maybe if I just went a little deeper because John Glacier, that has like a 92 now. It's like, oh, right, like female British rapper. That's always, like, that's the little sim. strategy, you know, like that's, I just made poor choice. I think I really got lazy with it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, like the British rapper, that's like the edge rusher from Georgia or from Alabama, you know, like, you're going to want to pick them in the first round probably. They're going to be good. I mean, I think your strategy still works. It's just that there's a higher variance.

Yeah. If you go for like the Indy R&B Act, if you go for like the British postpuneration, band, there's a better chance that you're going to get a 90-91-92 than if you pick a Sharon Vanetten. But there's also a chance that you could get like a 75 or 76. Whereas if you're going with Sharon Vanettin, which by the way, that record is really good. That record is really, I mean, I liked it when it came out. I've been listening to it consistently. I like that record a lot. So I guess I'm one of the critics who would be ensuring that she gets like an 83, 84 each time. But she's really good. I don't apologize for that. You just know that, okay, if I'm picking those kind of artists, I feel pretty sure of what I'm going to get.

Like, Sharon Vanettin's not going to make a shitty record that gets like a 72 metric score. She's always going to be in the 80s. You know that about her. She has the track record. She's reliable. And it just really pays off. I mean, the Ethel Cain thing really was the turning point here. the inadvertent

sort of mind games I was playing on you because I did intend to take Ethel Cain again until I realized that it was the 78 minute soundscape record more than like a proper follow-up to her previous album so yeah I don't know

are you going to file a complaint with the league that there was some sort of tampering involved yeah it's like the Mark Williams trade It's like I wasn't aware of their injury rap sheet. But I'm already looking at Q2. I'm like, I got some picks now. So I am coming back with a vengeance in Q2.

And you will not see me make the same mistakes. I mean, did quarter one seem a little slow? Are there any albums that have jumped out yet? Oh, bad bunny, bad bunny twigs. Okay. I guess if you want to count Siza again kind of doing the late December drop. But no, I do think. What about like in the indie world?

In the indie world, if you're like, probably not. Not really, yeah. It doesn't really exist, to be honest, the indie world. There's not like a wax. Waxy, I think, came out in the first quarter last year. I think it was like March or maybe, I thought that was like March or April. I mean, it could be wrong. Yeah.

It was the first half of the year at least. But yeah, otherwise it does see. seem like there isn't anything indie-wise that's really hit. Yeah, not really at all, to be honest. A lot of singles and doubles, a lot of albums that I enjoy, including one that we're going to talk about here in a minute, segue alert. But yeah, nothing that I feel like, oh, yeah,

we're laying down the gauntlet here. This is the album to beat. I would say Twiggs is that. If you want to consider indie world, Okay, well, I guess maybe. I guess that's more, that would be the closest thing in the indie world. Sure, we'll count that one as an indie release for sure. Twigs.

Bad Bunny is more of a pop record, I guess. Yeah, I guess we'll see what I. It felt slow to me. It was. It felt that way because it was that way. Yeah. February especially, pretty slow. It picks up, it's picking up here a bit in March, so we'll see what happened.

I mean, last year, I think, really was a great year. And I think that's the best year that we've had in a while. And maybe this is a little bit of a hangover from that. Yeah, I'm looking at Metacrick, and I have, like, three of the top ten albums, like, to just give you a sense of how slow it is, like Benjamin Booker's number 10, uh, Billy, Bonnie Prince Billy's number eight, Sam Fender, number seven currently. So, yeah. It's slow as hell.

Let's get to that. Sam Fender. New album, people watching. This record actually dropped last week. And I wanted to talk about it on the show because I have to say that in spite of myself, and in spite of knowing that it's so unbranded for me to be into this record, to a degree that I almost don't want to be into this record. And you've talked about this.

I remember when Gang of Use put out Go Farther Enlightenus, and I was telling you, this is a great record. you should get into this album. And you were resistant to it at first because you felt like this is too much in my wheelhouse. This is drawing on things I like to a degree that I'm suspicious of it. And eventually you got over that

because it's a great record. But I have that feeling a little bit with Sand Fender because with this new album, this is his third record, and I've been listening to him for a while. I actually wrote about him a bit in my Bruce Springsteen book. His first record hypersonic missiles came out. I believe that was 2019.

Yeah. And then he had a record called 17 Going Under, came out in 2021. So this is his first album in four years. And even before this record, if you were to ask me, like, who does Sam Fender remind me of musically? Obviously, Bruce Springsteen, as I mentioned, and other people have made that comparison. I mean, he's frequently compared to Springsteen, especially in England. He has a saxophone player in his band for crying out loud. Like how many guys his age?

31 years old. Not many millennials have sax players in their bands at this point. But I also thought, okay, clearly some war on drugs influence here. Clearly some killers, in particular like Sam's Town. But even like some of the more recent killers records too. Gaslight Anthem, I would say. Even a little bit of gang of use. And gang of use

have like played with Sam Fender. So that makes sense. Just like heart on your sleeve. I want to say Heartland Rock. But he's from England. I don't know what the heartland of England is. Like, do British people have? Heartland Rock?

I guess Dyer Strait. Yeah, Birmingham, Manchow. There's some, like, gritty towns there. That's true. And Dyer Straits is often, I wrote about them in my book, too. I mean, they are brought into Heartland Rock, not so much lyrically, but because of the music and how they've influenced bands that are now classified as Heartland Rock.

particular The War on Drugs. But on this new record, I mean, he leans into it. He leans into that stuff a lot. Like Adam Granduccio from The War on Drugs actually co-produced half of the album and he plays guitar on several songs. And like when Adam plays guitar, like there's one song toward the end of the record where he plays a guitar solo and it is so, we're on drugs. Even if you didn't know Adam was on the record, you'd be like,

Adam is on this record. It is so clearly Adam Granduccio playing this guitar solo. Although this record also does fool me because there's like some harmonica solos that sounds so much like Lost in the Dream harmonica solos that I thought Adam did that,

but Sam Fender plays those. So anyway, there's a lot of musical reference points on this record that I personally am a sucker for. So there's that. There's also his blue collar British persona, which in the modern context, essentially descends from Oasis in the mid-90s. Like, musically, he's not very Oasis, and he doesn't have the same sort of, you know, swagger to him or the braggadocious type attitude in the press.

But that Lad Rock, hoist your pint, wrap your arms around your soccer playing buddies or your football playing buddies, I guess, to speak in English parlance and sing these big-hearted songs. Sam Fender has that. There's a long tradition of British bands that do that. And I'm a sucker for that type of thing. So he's hitting me on many different levels in a way that one could say is pandering. I'm not going to say it's pandering because I think there's a lot of crap on this record. I like him as a songwriter.

I think the lyrics are a little corny, if I can say that. A little hamph. But that doesn't really bother me because that's not exactly. I mean, if you don't like corny, if corny lyrics bother you, this type of music is going to be a non-starter for you. So if you can't shrug off the occasional sort of awkward moment of sincerity, then you might as well just go listen to death grips or something. No shot at death grips, RIP to that band recently broke up. I think in my mind I've classified this record as

like Sam Fender is to a deeper understanding what Brian Adams was to Born in the USA you know like where you can hear him drawing sonically from this other record as other thing and putting it maybe in a more pop or mainstream or mass context I mean Brian Adams didn't necessarily do that because born the USA was already really big but I think you know what I mean. He kind of simplified what

Springsteen was doing for more of a pop audience. That's how I'm approaching this record and that's how I like it. I don't think it is like the most brilliant album I've ever heard but like have I listened to it a ton this week and really enjoyed it? Does it sound great in the car? Do I love the production? Yes, yes

and yes. So I am on board with this record. I'm guessing that you are probably not because you are not as much of a sucker for this kind of thing as I am. I'm just curious to hear what you think of Sam Fender. I mean, you were absolutely right about, like, gang of use. And when I interviewed Dave in 2017 or 18, it was like, yeah, this, like, I really wanted

to make, like, the monitor, but make it sound more like the national. Like, it was, it was absolutely everything I had thought it was. What I like it. It's a great idea. Yeah. That's a great idea, man. I'm on board with you, Dave, with that. Yeah.

But with this album, I mean, what I love about Sam Fender is, I just imagine. studio executives in 1985 at the height of Bossmania trying to make like a quickie movie to just kind of coast off it and just people in a writer's room like looking at a poster of Bruce Springsteen playing a telecaster. It's like, oh yeah, let's just call him Sam Fender. That's a good one. Like it like poochy style. Like I just love the fact that his name is Sam Fender. Like whose last name is Fender aside from the guy who actually made the guitar, you know? I mean, and that's apparently his real name. It sounds like the fakes name. Like Kurt Vile. You know, like that, no way that can be his real name, right?

Right. But yeah, I mean, with with this, it's interesting because like you brought up, you know, Oasis as being kind of a model. And I think just the major difference is that, you know, when the Gallagher brothers go to the press, they say like really cheeky, hilarious things. And Sam Fender last week was talking about how the music industry is rigged against working class people such as himself. And, you know, this is sort of interesting take on things because it's working class music in his view. But it's like, well, A, it sounds like ridiculously expensive. But also it's like about working class people. Which is a heartland rock thing though.

I mean, yeah, totally. It's like Springsteen does that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's kind of where this is just sitting in an interesting spot. Because to me, it sounds like if you. told me it was like, I haven't

gone that deep on the new Killers albums, like the ones where they're kind of clearly trying to sound like the War on Drugs. If I didn't know any better, I would say that, yeah, this is probably a killer song, especially because, like, Brandon Flowers has always had like kind of a sort of kind of British accent. I mean, I enjoy this.

I think that there are some lyrics that really stick in my craw the same deal with Gang of Us as well. There's like, it's like, oh, I didn't know Tinnitus is pronounced like that. But in the outline, I really liked how you bought up like Travis as a comparative point of like just big kind of heartfelt and corny.

Yeah, exactly. That big broad British rock thing. You know, do you remember that brand that band in Brace? I was I couldn't believe you because like I was going to bring that up except I thought it was a little too like obscure all you good good people. Not for me as a British rock fan that was just trying to find anything that was remotely related to Oasis. Yeah. It was more kind of kind of.

of like it was like an even dumber version of the verb that's what i remember that album being yeah but again just like but some songs i remember really liking i mean just big broad ballads that have like string sections on them and uh you know lyrics about following your heart i mean inside the uh sam fender record there's a lyric that's blown up in big type where it says something like if i'm going to be pushing up daisies tomorrow may i live live like like it's the summertime with my arms outstretched. Like, I'm paraphrasing here, but it's something like that. Yeah.

And it just looks like something that, like, your mom would have hanging in her bathroom. You know, like, some sort of, like, platitude that, or maybe it's just my mom that hang stuff like that in her bathroom. But, like, you know, these platitudes that people, or like, an Airbnb, like, when you go to an Airbnb and they hang up those signs on the walls that say, like, you know. Live, laugh, love, or, you know, put first coffee. but yeah like I do think that like Sam Fender kind of deviates from those sort of acts

because like this is like very meaningful in a very explicit way in music like you would hear embrace and you'd hear the like the verb the rolling people that's a very meaningful song but it's also dumb as hell this is like trying to like shed light on things in a way that is very almost like more like John Cougar Mellencamp because I think with John Cougar Mellencamp, there was like a great,

there was a less of a distance between the subject matter of which he was writing and himself. So, I mean, yeah, maybe there's some Cougar in there. But yeah, yeah, I mean, does this sound incredible when I'm in my car if I were hearing it a festival? Absolutely. Is it something that I'm going to like throw on,

you know, on my way to work? I don't know. Like, I'm about to go to a picket line because our works on strike for the second day out of three. So you know what? Maybe I am going to listen to this album. It's going to get me pumped up and get a fair deal for the working man because I am a working man. I'm a union man. Sam Spander should write songs about me. One thing that is interesting about this because I've described this record as War on Drugs, methadone. And that's not a perfect

comparison for the reasons that you're stating. I think lyrically, Fender is in a completely different place from the war on drugs. And I think the lyrics are more central to the music, or at least Sam Fender, I think, believes that. I mean, when I listen to his songs, it is more for the music and for the production and the grandness of it, the grand rock, like, balladry going on on the record that, again, I respond to, even when I can poke holes in it intellectually, like emotionally, it just speaks to me. But, you know, Adam Granduccio, I mean, he, he is in this moment right now where he seems to be popping up in various places, either as a guest star or as a producer. He's all over this record. There was the Lucius record that came on last

year where you hear the songs that he's on. And again, you could not know anything else about the record. If you just heard that song, you'd be like, oh yeah, Adam is on this record. It's so sort of unmissable that it's him. And then we have this Craig Finn coming, this Craig Finn record coming up, I think that comes out in April where he's back by the war on drugs on every song. And Adam, I think Adam produced it. And, you know, we've already talked on this show about how the war on drugs are like a very influential band on contemporary indie rock, if not the most influential. They're certainly among the most influential of the last 10 years. Oh, absolutely. I do wonder, because like, look, again,

Like the Craig Finn record I have it, I've been listening to it a lot. I'm a Craig Finn fan combining him with the War on Drugs. I mean, that is like an AI, you know, prompt for me personally as a music fan. It's feeding my own biases for sure with that. I do wonder, like, I guess I hope he's not watering down what the War on Drugs do to the point where like when the War on Drugs put out their next record. It's like, oh, man, this again. It was not like what Tame and Paula.

Like, you know how like Kevin Parker would just like pop up on a bunch of like hip hop albums. And like it just kind of didn't make me more excited for more Tame and Paula music. And by the way, did you know like in it, I think it's across the country. There are Tame and Pala bar nights. Did you know this? I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised. Yeah. My son, and this was without my guidance really, I just recently discovered that he's a big Tame and Pala fan.

Like he doesn't listen to like really any indie rock at this point, but like he has asked me about Tame Impala. And he was actually talking about lonerism and talking about how the cover of lonerism is this is a photo of like this park in France. And he knew what Park it was because he looked it up on Wikipedia. And he wanted to like listen to interviews that I've done with Kevin Parker, like find the audio of it. And so like he cares about Tame and Paula.

And I think it's just because his friends know it too. And again, they're not really listening to indie rock, but Tame and Paul is a band that they know. So, yeah, they're a huge band. They're huge. If my 12-year-old son is getting into them on their own, that tells me, okay, they've reached a strata that a lot of indie bands have not. And they're not an indie band either. I don't know why I keep saying that. But, I mean, they started in that world.

So I guess I still think of them that way. Yeah, I would also like to hear that audio because I did an interview with Kevin Parker before lonerism and it was one of the most like nondescript ones I've ever done you know he was fine I've interviewed him a couple times I interviewed him on currents that was the first time I talked to him we went to uh it was in it was an L.A we went to some like bullshit diner in L.A. And he was very nice and then we talked for the slow rush so I've always found to be very nice. You're on location in Australia I know that's that's what legitimate journalism does they send you to the country where

they live. Well, you know, passionate music journalism is what we're about here at Indycast. And we want boots on the ground if we can get them there. But if feeling that, you know, you do the half hour on Zoom. You know, you got to do that if you have to. All right, well, let's transition to our next topic on this episode. And that is the Los Angeles band Cheek Face. They put out a new record this week called Middle Spoon. They actually released it on Tuesday. That's That clearly is a deliberate choice to release it in the old school way, release it on a Tuesday rather than on a Friday. That's pretty cool. I remember records coming out on Tuesday. I always liked that. I kind of wish that was still happening. So cheekface. That's one thing they did. They put a record on Tuesday. So hats off to them. Happy for that. If you're not familiar with this band, like I said, they're from Los Angeles. They formed in 2017. This latest record, it's their fifth album. Rather than go through their whole history here to set up our talk about the album, I just want to read from this magazine, well, not a magazine profile, it's an internet profile,

from the website Inside Hook. This is the lead of the story. I feel like this kind of sums up the band pretty well, and then we can go from there. Okay, it's a Sunday night in October 2020, and the Brooklyn Club Babies All Right is packed with dorky 20-somethings, screaming along to a song about noodles. like some culinary cult ritual. A big cup of noodles, they shout.

A giant cup of noodles. A few songs later, the crowd is enthusiastically participating in a call and response segment that goes like this. Yo, shut the F up. Yo, shut the F up. I think it goes back and forth. Oh, yeah. So, yo. I'm hearing it in my head.

So the audience says, yo. I guess. And then the band says shut the F up. I would imagine the band says, yo, that would make... So the audience says shut the F-O. I would imagine that would be the case, yes. Okay. Then they're grooving to a four-on-the-floor tune called Vegan Water,

whose free associative lyrics skewer, tithe-pod swallowers, desert snatchers, and, quote, corporatist status monkeys. Four on the floor is, I got to say, just as a music writer, Four on the floor is just like the most nothing phrase. When writers throw that out. It is, but it is, but I feel like it's just like when you got nothing to say, that's just word count. But I digress. Well, the meat of it is the tide pod swallowers, the dessert snatchers.

Is dessert snatchers? Is that a thing? I guess I'm just not as well-versed in the cheek-faced universe. I mean, I think we're going to eventually say, like, wait, maybe most people haven't heard of this band. Well, wait, hold on. We're getting to the next paragraph. We're going to the next paragraph. Welcome to the world of cheekface.

In L.A. indie rock trio whose quirked up songwriting feels like the extremely online spiritual kin to groups like wean. Okay. We're going to talk about that in a second. Dead milkmen, the minute men, and Fountains of Wayne, all notable cheek fluences. You could have just said cheek. You could have just said cheek. influences. That's not a good one. They're saying cheek fluences.

With four albums in five years, again, this is from a few years ago. The newest it's sorted was surprise released last week with no advance announcement. The band has emerged as one of the most prolific and exciting indie rock outfits of the 20s. Their growing popularity has even yielded its own vernacular. The band calls itself America's local band, while devoted cheek face fans are known as cheek freaks. So that's the setup for this band. That's from Inside Hook, a profile of cheekface calling them one of the most prolific and

exciting indie rock outfits of the 2020s. Now, this is the part where we admit that we have sub-tweeted this band on this podcast for a while now. I feel like for like most of the history of the show, is it possible that we were doing it back in 2022 when this article was published? I've been sub-tweeting this band for like three years. And we haven't talked about this band because I think this is true for you. Like for myself, you know, when you're talking about music, you know that you have to be critical sometimes of bands.

But you don't necessarily want to be critical of a band that hasn't achieved a certain level of notoriety. Because it just feels gratuitous and unnecessary. And to use an overused phrase, it feels like you're punching. down on some level. So like with this band, you know, as a matter of, well, okay, this might not be my cup of tea, cheekface. But I don't know if it's really worth talking about that publicly because they haven't achieved maybe the level of success where it feels like it'd be warranted to comment on this,

on the podcast or elsewhere. Well, now they have this new album coming out. They're going to go on tour. They're playing fairly large venues. in my town, the Twin Cities, they're playing a venue that has a cap of about 650 people. So, you know, not playing the Target Center, but, you know, pretty big venue. And certainly in the league of other bands that we talk about on the show. So I feel like there's that.

Also, you know, this band has generated uniformly, I would say, positive coverage. When you Google this band, I was trying to find, like, oh, they're negative reviews. views of this band, if there have been any pushback against it. It's uniformly positive. It's been from some pretty big outlets. I mean, Anthony Fantano, the internet's biggest music nerd, I think that's how he bills himself, loves cheekface. I was looking at his review of It's Sorted, gave it a light eight, which is high in the

Fantano scale. And look, I'm not taking shots at Fantano. I respect Fantano. Good for him. Huge audience. He's really good at what he does. Yeah, his reviews matter in a way that it's very, very rare nowadays. It matters.

I mean, I push back a little bit when people say, oh, he's the only critic that matters. I don't necessarily think that's, I think he matters to people that are in the YouTube world. Yes. And it can really move the needle. And there's a lot of people in the YouTube world. That's a huge audience. And he's good at what he does. I almost never agree with him.

But that's fine. I don't know. To me, that's not. a standard that you don't have to agree with you for me to think that you're a good critic or anything anyway fantano loves cheekface stereo gum very supportive of cheekface this week there was a profile in the los angeles times of cheekface praising them so I feel like this is a long preamble a long preamble for me to say that I think this is the most irritating band in indie rock right now I think that they're pretty bad.

Yeah. I think they're bad lyrically. I think that they... I mean, the Ween thing in the inside hook, that really bothers me. Because I don't think that they are anything like Ween musically or lyrically.

If you know anything about Wean, wean is not a joky band, really? Like, they're a dark band. They have a pretty perverse sense of humor. They're not internet-related. Most of their records, like, predate the internet. Whereas cheekface is maybe the most internet poisoned band that I can think of, or at least

of bands that have somewhat of a large audience. I mean, I would liken them to cake. That, I feel like they compared to cake. Yeah, a lot of cake in there. And I think I would also compare them to bare naked ladies in terms of their sense of humor and also because they really annoy me. So we can get into this, I guess, more about like what specifically is annoying about cheekface.

But I think the thing, one thing I want to bring up that, because this is something I find really contemptible, not just in music, but in culture generally, is I would classify cheekface as a, oh, you don't like fun type band. And by that I mean that like when you say you don't like a band like that, some bozo stands up and says, oh, you don't like fun. And it's like this very passive, aggressive sort of thing where it's like reply guy logic, where if you don't like this sort of obnoxious joke that I'm making, then that means you don't have a sense of humor and it's your fault.

It's not that I'm obnoxious and annoying. it's that you just can't take my sense of humor. And I feel like with Cheekface, there's a real sensibility to this band. And maybe we can talk about the record here a little bit, but I think you even get it from that little excerpt that I read of that internet profile of them. They remind me less of like a band than like an internet social media account that is inexplicably popular, that you've muted. years ago, but for whatever reason, still ends up in your feed every day. It's like, didn't I mute this?

But even when you mute it, it still shows up somehow and people are retweeting it over and over again. And it's just like the lamest jokes, just like memes being recycled over and over about like stock, social media type subjects, you know, anxiety and, you know. Eggs are so damn expensive. There's like, yeah, like I do wonder. I was listening to Zabwoldering. I wanted to see my therapist and all that kind of stuff. And I know I've been talking for a long time. I'm going to see the floor to you here. But again, this band, they've built an audience.

I respect it. I, you know, God love them. The cheek freaks. They've got a big following. Good for them. But I feel like somebody needs to stand up and say, this band is actually extremely annoying and, like, not very good. And maybe that just has to be me.

and possibly you at this moment. Yeah, I mean, you're speaking to like the central concern of this band, at least to us, in that, you know, like, why are we taught, like, is it punching down? Is it like, why are we talking about like cheek face? Why are we putting him on the level of Sam Fender? And I'll tell you why, because I feel like this band is part of their strategy is to kind of force the hand of myself or someone at Pitchfork to give them a 3.0. I really like, and I say this as like, not a compliment or whatever, but a lot of what

they're putting out there and the tone of all the articles is like, you know, they're beloved. They have their cheek freaks, which, by the way, not the worst stand-based name I've heard this week. I found out the Tate McCrae's fans are known as Tater Tots. the worst thing I've ever heard. But yeah, I think with like cheekface, it's like you talk about like people saying, oh, you don't like fun. I think there's also this kind of critical, you know, out saying like, oh, this is just not for me, you know. And like I can hear certain things, especially some like really internet fried rap stuff and think, yeah, this is not something I should have opinions on.

but this is a band that is reminds me like they're don't get me wrong they're very very blue sky coded in the way you mentioned where it's like I thought I'm muted this person now I'm on this new social media website and they're back but what they really remind me of is Obama era like funny or die videos I that is such a specific memory of my life when I was actually working in comedy and people would be like, hey, check out this parody rap video that somebody did. And it's like, hey, Ian, you like rap, you like funny stuff, right? You're going to love this. And it would be like usually a white guy doing the absolute worst parody rap song you've ever

heard. It's not a white guy who did it, but I'm thinking of Baraka, flock of flame, head of the state to the tune of Harden the Paint, which is maybe the worst thing the internet's produced. And so with cheekface, like, it is the sort of thing that. I could possibly like. I've heard them compared to, and this is probably the same as someone comparing a band

to Ween for you, which by the way, like Ween hated their fans, at least in their rise. Like, they are a very antagonistic band. I've heard them compared to the dismemberment plan. I don't know where you,

are you a D plan fan? Not really. Yeah. Which I'm not totally shocked. I'm not totally shocked by that, by the way. I don't hate them. I'm not really,

on board. Yeah. So, you know, people would say like, oh, yeah, this is like kind of like the new dismemberment plan. And let me get, let me be very real with you about this. Like, I love the dismemberment plan specifically emergency and I and change. The rest I don't really mess with. But even in the best dismemberment plan songs, there is one lyric that just, like, I wish they didn't do that one. Like in following through, it's like it could have been off the hook now. You know, Travis Morrison, like, would incorporate hip-hop slang and it just sounds like very dated. Imagine if like every lyric was that lyric and that's kind of what cheekface is doing for me. It is so prof- like, I'll give them this.

It's like shockingly coherent, their sound, their vision, their tweets. It's so fully formed and that form is punchable. Yeah, I mean, and I can understand someone getting into it because of that consistency. Yeah, it definitely is not half-baked in terms of presenting a sensibility throughout the albums that also extends to the artwork, extends to the music videos throughout. Like, there's a vision there for sure. It's just a vision that I find largely contemptible and it just makes me cringe constantly when I'm listening to it. And, you know, the thing about it, you know, you were talking about the funny or die comparison. And that makes a lot of sense to me.

I will say, like, one thing that I really don't like about this band, well, among the many things I don't like about this band, is that, you know, the lead singer, who's also the songwriter, I believe, is named Greg Katz. And he sings in this very sort of flat, monotone voice. It's a talk singing voice, which, of course, a lot of people do. And there's a lot of bands that do that. I like. But there's something about his tone of voice when he's delivering his lyrics. It just sounds like a guy that laughs at his own jokes. And a guy that retweets his own tweets about his cultural and political observations.

There's a sort of smugness, I think, to this band that I think undermines the fun. And I'm putting fun in quotes that people talk about. Look, I don't doubt people hear this band. They hear insight and they get a lot of fun from it. I'm not questioning their experience. I'm just saying that for me, like, it's not fun because I think there's a smugness to it that I find totally off-putting.

And there's also an element to the lyrics where, you know, there's this joke often where people talk about, you know, certain arguments that happen online or certain memes that happen online where, you know, you try to imagine explaining that to a person who's not online. Or even like saying these words out loud. You know, and how awkward they would sound or how stupid they would sound if they weren't typed, if they were actually spoken aloud.

And I feel like there's a lot of lyrics from Cheekface that sound dumb because they're being spoken in a song. Right. There's a song on the new record called Content Baby. Do you know this song? It's toward the end of the record, and he's talking of, it's a song where he's likening a relationship to content and sharing content online to being a relationship. The course is treat me like your content, baby. You have my consent to share me. Treat me like your content.

I want to be your content. And I can look at that and say like, okay, this is related to how a lot of people talk online about being alienated by the word content. That it's a flattening word that people apply to all sorts of things. And it just sucks the humanity out of human expression when you reduce everything to content. Like I get that as an idea. But if you put that out in the real world. It just seems ridiculous. It's one of those things where if you brought it up at a dinner party,

people would go, wow, this guy needs to log off for like three years because what he cares about is total bullshit. Like this is stupid. You're wrapped up in something that is totally insignificant. And I just feel like there's a lot of songs like that this band produces that are produced for the most internet poison people. It's internet poison people producing content for. internet poison people.

But I think it's an internet poison for like people who are our age, which feels a lot more pernicious than like, you know, talking about something like Blade or, you know, a lot of like the rap stuff that's being like covered at pitchfork now. It's just the person at work who like quotes, quote tweets things and being around people who are like telling you, hey, do you see this tweet or like they'll show you their phone with like a meme which I you know we all do but like that's the whole the thing and I what I think what kind of bothers me I think the reason that like it's so tough for us to talk about this album on the pod is that oh if you don't like it that's just what we're looking for right like I really cannot say like how much this I feel like this

band has just been trying to like let's get that three and then they would just like post that review and like kind of like sarcastically oh we get it type tweets about it like well it's just a no win you know cats has said this is an interview that he did in 24 that i think is it was with exclaim and uh in the in the headline of the story let me look this up it says cheekface love people who find them annoying and at the end of the story there's a quote it says the more people we reach the more people we reach that we annoy the shit out of, and I fucking love that. So I want to stay true to anything that annoys the shit out of a lot of people.

So, I mean, I guess you didn't see that. I mean, that speaks to what you're talking about, which, you know, again, there's like a kernel of truth there. That is true. Like any band, the bigger you get, the more people you're also going to have we don't like you. That's part of being successful. And that's a sign that you are successful.

And I guess we are playing in to, the multi-dimensional chess here by even doing this on the podcast. But, I mean, that is also reply guy logic, too. Like, if you acknowledge me, then I win. You know, like, if I am annoying enough that you acknowledge me, then that proves that I'm actually brilliant and it's your fault for acknowledging me and not my fault for being, like, annoying, which I hate. I hate that mentality online.

but it's also true. So I guess you can't win, really, in this situation. Maybe I just beat that three-dimensional chess where I review them and like I give them a 6.2 or something like that. So like they can't, that's the only way. That's the only way I win. But I think that just, yeah, they're just an interesting phenomenon because it's almost like it's being marketed towards us to be. annoyed by it and to react to it. Right.

But yeah, I just think that the record itself, I mean, like, I keep thinking, oh, it can't be that bad. Like, you know, it's like, maybe I'm just, like, annoyed by their tweets. Like, it wouldn't be the first time that, like, I was annoyed by a band's internet presence and I listen to the record. I'm like, okay, fine. Like, I'll just mute them or whatever. No, it's like every single lyric is like that, again, I know I'm talking about memes

about a band who's too mean poison, but it's like that Marino. one where he's like ripping the headphones off. I'm like, I can't believe it. But at the same time, it's like it knows exactly what it's doing. And I kind of have to respect that. And you know what? Maybe they're just going to like kind of exist on their own island. I think, you know, it's like, will it bleed over into like our world?

You know, like, will they be on those festivals? Will they tour with, you know, Craig Finn or something like that? I don't think so. I mean, and again, to go back to. we were saying or what I was saying at the beginning of this segment, I do find it odd that the coverage of this band has been so uniformly positive because I think even the band themselves would acknowledge. I mean, Greg Katz did that in that quote. I think they are a polarizing band. I think that there is a self-awareness there that what they're doing is not for everybody

and that there's a sensibility here that some people are going to love and clearly they have an audience of very devoted fans that love what they do and God bless them. I would love to meet these people. people, but like, I think they just get that one music writer in L.A. There's like an very L.A. specific artist thing to do to be friends with music writers and then just kind of have each of those people do a profile on you. But, I mean, I think they have a genuine grassroots following. Oh, sure. If they're going, I mean, again, their following has built. I know they've played the Twin Cities a few times and they're, they were, I think, at 7th Street entry last time and now they're playing the fine line here in the Twin Cities. So they're moving up. They're progressing.

So that indicates to me, I mean, we've talked about, we've joked about other bands that get a ton of press coverage and they don't ever seem to grow their audience. That's not true of cheekface at all. But they do seem like a band that like does generate passionate response, but you've only heard from the people that love them so far. And I think, again, even they would acknowledge that what they do is bound to generate a lot of hate. like it's just not something that is down the middle sort of everyone can maybe find something to appreciate it about it it's a record that you put on it's like some people are going to think it's genius and other people are going to think it's the most nails on a chalkboard pap

that they've heard in years and there's no in between and you know to end this on a positive note I mean we've talked often on this show about appreciating bands that generate passionate response and that you can actually will yourself or kind of get the passionate to dislike. There is an achievement in that to, you know, because there's a lot of music out there that's just like fine. You know, you listen to it.

It's like, oh, this is fine. And then you forget about it instantly. We've talked about this band for years. We've talked about it. We're like, oh, my God, can you believe this band? I cannot believe, and not in a good way. But that's an achievement, you know? And again, they clearly have an audience.

and I wish them the best of luck. I don't like them personally. They seem like nice people. They're music, not a fan. But, you know, have a good year. I hope you do well on the road with your fans. And I hope you just don't end up on a bill at a show that I'm going to see. Yeah.

And also, I want to end this on a positive note because I cannot believe we haven't mentioned it yet, but the basis was in Stella Star. That's true. That's true. And she's the best part of the band. Yeah. Yeah, shout to end the wall, sweet troubled soul, you know. They had some moments.

It's like Carlos D. joined the Wiggles. Yeah, exactly. That's like the Stella Star bassist. Ended up in, ending up in Cheekface. But she's a great player. I think she's the best musician in the band. So, yeah, anyway, Cheekface, good luck to you.

Yeah. Have a great 2025. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So, yeah, there's been a pretty big past couple of weeks for albums that I'm super into, you know, not home runs, but, you know, albums that are from bands I like and I continue to like. And this week, it is Cloak Room.

I don't know if they're still based out of Indiana, but it's a band I've liked for a long time. Their debut album, Further Out from 2015 was actually an accurately called Stoner Emo, It was just another way to say they sounded like hum, and they were produced by Matt Talbot. But they have a new album out this week called Last Leg of the Human Table. They're on close casket activities now, which is most often like a hardcore label. They used to be on relapse, which was more of a metal thing, and they were on run for cover. So a very interesting trajectory. But even as they get on heavier and heavier labels with time, their music gets more jangly and accessible.

And here's something that's like I never thought I would say in 2017, but with Cloak Room getting jangly on this new album, like melodic and Wild Pink playing baritone guitars on their last album, those two bands have more or less converged on the same exact sound in the past year. So this is a little more still like stoner rocky. It's got a little more metallic undertones to it. But in some ways, like one of the singles sounded like a, like a doucheous. do metal gin blossoms, and I say that in the most positive way. So Cloak Room is really put together a cool catalog. They just keep putting out good records, and this one is yet another. So last leg of the human table, cloakroom.

I want to talk about the latest album from Panda Bear, which is out today. It's called Sinister Grift. And I feel like the title of this album is a little misleading. It makes it sound like it's a foreboding record, to come from the Animal Collective camp. And this record actually is really, I think, in line with what Animal Collective has been doing lately,

which is some of the most accessible and pop-friendly music of their career. When I was listening to this album, I was actually thinking about Paul Simon, because I've been listening to Paul Simon a lot lately. And this feels like Noah Lennox's Paul Simon album, you know, in terms of like him being a middle-aged guy,

and now I'm just going to make really, warm and affectionate and fun music to listen to, that's also maybe a little bit rye and wise at the same time. And comparing an Animal Collective adjacent record to Paul Simon, I can just imagine the horror of indie rock fans who got into this band because of fields and strawberry jam and, you know, the more abrasive side maybe of what Animal Collective did. But I personally have enjoyed this turn for Animal Club. collective. I guess I don't want them to stay in this lane forever. I would like them to go back to music that sounds a little more sinister at some point. But for now, I just find this record to be

incredibly appealing and enjoyable to listen to. And it's fun hearing the guest stars on this record. You know, Deakin has a pops up on this record. Cindy Lee pops up on this album. Just like a really, again, just warm, fun, affectionate record. And it's, it's a really, it's a very, it's just interesting to think about Ammo Collective making these like minivan type records. You know, like if you're an aging indie rock fan, you want to turn your kids on to this stuff, maybe don't drop a person pitch on them right away. You can bring them this record and then down the line be like, okay, this is a little trippier here. You don't play this record for you.

But yeah, I'm enjoying it. It's a good record from Panda Bear, Sinister Grip. Go check it out. Yeah, I saw some reviews compared to Jim. me buff it because there is like kind of a light reggae undertone to it. And yeah, like I do miss the more like sinister, uh, noisy animal collective. But you know, I think that it's a kind of a realistic, a realistic, uh, a realistic, uh, evocation of where they're at.

Also, you mentioned the Deacon and Cindy Lee guest stars. I think there's an enormous Bradford Cox sized hole in the guest list for this. Like I don't, I know that like he's retreated. especially since COVID. But especially since this album reminds me of Walkabout from the Atlas Sound, like the record in 2009, the one where Panda Bear and Bradford Cox collaborated. We got to get like a Bradford Cox remix on this.

I just wonder if, is he going to make his own record? Is there going to be Bradford Cox? Is there going to be a deer hunter? God, that would be great. That would be interesting. I just feel like there's a lot of affection out there for the old Bradford Cox musical universe

it'd be cool to see him make a comeback I have no idea like what's going on there or what the status is maybe we'll hear something soon we'll get some passionate music journalism written about it and we can get to the bottom of it that does it for this episode of Indycast we'll be back with more news reviews

and hashing out trends next week and if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.