Indiecast - New Albums From Lucy Dacus, Destroyer, Perfume Genius, And Deafheaven

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Steven and Ian kill some time at the start chatting about the return of Tobias Jesso Jr. (0:00) and Steven's recent list of the best 21st century indie-rock albums, which generated some buzz online (6:23). But they devote most of the episode discussing a full slate of new releases this week. First up is Lucy Dacus, who is back with a big new release on a major label. But is the album a major achievement (21:45)? After that, they do quick hits on new albums from Destroyer (38:23), Deafheaven (38:23), and Perfume Genius (48:21). Have any of these veteran acts put out new work that matches their best? They report, you decide!In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks up the new release from indie-emo band Palmyra and Steven stumps for country singer Charley Crockett (55:15).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 232 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about a lot of new albums coming out today, including new releases from Lucy Dacus, Destroyer, Death Heaven, and Perfume Genius. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's most excited to hear the Tobias Jesso Jr. record, Goon 2,

Ian Cohen, Ian, who are you? He's called by its proper name, Goun To the Gooning. I'm convinced there's not a single second. I'm convinced there's not a single second of this album that exists in Tobias Chesso Jr's hard drive or even in his mind. What? No, no, no, no, no.

This album exists. He announced it last week. He announced it, but like, is it happening? I mean, I know there's lore already. Okay, so I got to give a shout out to the editor of our show, Ian Grant, my friend, he told me about this interview that I had totally missed. There was an interview that dropped on Vulture. I think it was Friday.

Yeah. Might have been Friday afternoon, which is the news dump period. You know, that's where you dump the news that you don't want to be publicized. And I don't know why you'd want to bury this news. But apparently, Tobias Jesso Jr., who we talk about occasionally on this show, we like to make jokes about Tobias Jesso Jr. He put on a record called Goon in 2015. It got a lot of critical raves. I like to say that that is the ultimate example to me of an interview that I did with a musician where by the end of it, the musician talked me out of liking his music.

Not because he was a jerk. He was a nice guy, but I just felt like respectfully he seemed like a bit of a hymbo to me, a little bit of an airheaded guy. But really the joke's on me because this guy, you know, he, he. He went on to a very successful career as a songwriter, working with Adele, working with Harry Stiles. I believe he won the songwriter of the year Grammy in 2023. So he's doing extremely well. I don't know why he's going back to indie rock. But apparently he told Vulture that there's an album called Goon 2 that he wrote with his ex-wife's Gardner, which I'm on board.

You already had me with Goon 2. Yes. But the ex-wife's gardener is like, all right, stop with the hard sell here. I'm already on board. I'm excited for this. I think we're going to, I'm choosing to believe, Ian, in hope and impossibility. I have not been ground down by current events or, you know, the state of the world. I still believe in hope.

I still believe in beauty. I still believe that things like Goon 2, an album that Tobias Jesso Jr. wrote with his ex-wife's Gardner, I believe that can exist and will exist and we'll be able to talk about it on this show. Yeah, I think that nobody has played the game better than Tobias Jesso Jr. over the past 10 years. I mean, that is the dream. Like, my dream job has always been to be the 12th man on an NBA team or like the basis in cold play or something like that. And here's a guy who parlayed a, you know, kind of a remember some guys number, number 25 album of the year type thing into a very long and lucrative career.

And he knows we don't want a second Tobias Jesso Jr. album. We just want something called Goon 2. Right. You know, is it like the Heat 2 of, you know, singer-songwriter? I mean, Heat 2 exists, though. I'm convinced that he just wanted to say, hey, goon 2. Also, just because the fact that like the word goon has taken on a very different meaning

in the past. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Which is Tobias Jesso, he's. He's living in a mansion in Malibu. He's chilling. I don't think he's keeping up on the evolving meanings of the word goon. He just knows that Goon was his, you know, somewhat beloved solo record.

I mean, this interview came about because I think Vulture was doing a 10th anniversary of Goon feature. Yes, there's some love for it. Yeah. So there's definitely some love for this. I mean, maybe we're the only ones who make fun of this record. We might be in the minority here. We might be like the losers in our own story. We're the protagonist in our narrative.

We think that we're the heroes. But in reality, we may be the losers. We may be the only people laughing at this record. Because, you know, it's a nice record. It's a throwback to 70s singer-songwriter type record. It has Randy Newman elements. It has some like Todd Rungren elements to it. Like those signifiers really hooked me in when the record came out in 2015.

It came out right around the time as I Love You Honey Bear. Yeah. And I remember when I wrote my piece for Grantland, I grouped those records together. I didn't talk to Josh Tillman for that story, but I did talk to Tobias Gesso Jr., who again was a nice guy. I just felt like it was my fault, really, because you go into these interviews and you're thinking, I'm going to talk to this tunesmith, this budding musical prodigy. And then you talk to him, and it's just like a dude. who you feel like probably has a good record collection that he was able to replicate on his record

and there's not a lot of substance to it. I mean, that was my feeling at the time. But now there's Goon 2. I think this, if he doesn't make this record, AI will make it possible. Like some other entity will manifest Goon 2 because clearly the people want it. We want it. Yes. I want it. So I choose to believe. I think it's going to happen. Yeah, welcome, you know, we're part of, welcome to the goon squad. You know, we are, we, we, we, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we should, we should talk a little bit about a big column I dropped this week. I published this thing I've been working on for a few weeks now. It was my list of best slash favorite indie rock albums of the 21st century,

100 albums. I think it's like 13,000 words. So I worked on this forever. It dropped on Tuesday. I was in Tulsa, Oklahoma. When this dropped, I was in town to see Bob Dylan. I was also at the Bob Dylan center, looking at Bob Dylan ephemera,

Bob Dylan's wallet from 1966. Very cool. Johnny Cash's phone number was inside. I haven't tried to call the number yet. Maybe you can reach Johnny in the Great Beyond. But meanwhile, I'm in the display, and I'm looking at my phone to see what people think of this list, which is a great thing and a terrible thing.

And I quickly muted the thread because I don't need feedback. I decided at this point, life. I'm old enough in all facets of my life. I don't need any feedback. I think I'm good as I am. I don't know how you feel, Ian. Do you feel like you've maxed out? I feel like I've maxed out on feedback at this point of my life. The feedback tank is full and maybe it'll deplete a little bit and I'll need more feedback at the top. But I think I'm good on feedback right now. Yeah, I feel like I've got nothing new to learn. Um, exactly. I've perfected my craft. Perfection has been achieved.

No feedback, no notes. I don't need constructive criticism or anything. But no, I wrote this article. And like, it wasn't my idea to write this column. My editor, Phil, who's also the boss of this podcast, big podcast. That's what he works for, Phil. He asked me to do this. And in my mind, I mean, I said yes to him because I like my job and I don't want to be out on the streets.

You know, on the bread lines, metaphorically speaking, I'm one of the only music critics that I feel like who still has a job. So you can't turn down good work. But in my mind, I had two reservations. One, there's a lot of albums that I've come out in the last 20, well, not quite 25 years. It's 24 years and about four months. A lot of albums. And also indie as a concept is at this point impossible to define. It may not have any meaning at all.

You can define it in the traditional sense, in the business sense, independence from corporate labels. But in the nomenclature, the way normal people talk about music, the way that word is applied to all sorts of things, if you're going to be that narrow with it, the list is not going to have much utility outside of a small number of people on the internet. most of them between the ages of 45 and 54, many of them who used to like indie rock and are now really into jazz, like that demographic of listener, they're going to be really passionate. And I've heard from those people the last few days. They're not happy with me. I understand it.

But, you know, it was a mix of writing about records that I know are significant, culturally, and musically, and mixing that with my own taste. and it ends up with this organism that I was happy with, but I know is designed to maybe make a lot of people angry. So, like, I didn't have funeral on my list. I said that at the top. I'm not putting funeral on the list. I'm not putting Sufian Stevens, Illinois on my list.

I'm not putting any Death Cab for Cutie records on my list or any St. Vincent record. You know, there's a lot of artists who are canonical who are important. And I'm not even saying I don't like them necessarily, but I didn't put them on my list because I did want to put on some. things that were personally meaningful to me and mix it with the big canonical record. So that's what I tried to do. And the exercise was almost like a meta exercise in writing a list like that. I was like writing the list, but I was also kind of commenting on what it means to write a list

like this and how it can be futile and frustrating, but fun ultimately. That's three F words right there. I don't know if you read the list, Ian. I just mentioned some records that I know you would have put on your list. like funeral in particular Is that your number one indie rock album Of the last 25 years? You know, when I thought about

What it might be like to put together a list like this Also, I think we need to just be real about Steven's point Like every music critic is one list away from homelessness Like, you know, we are all Not let's not be over dramatic here I don't know But music critic No, it's not that extra

I'm Look, I'm just saying It wasn't It wasn't my idea to do this But I happily did it But I did have It's an impossible task Like writing this kind of thing

It's one thing to write about Like a particular artist And you want to write about like their catalog And like their best songs But to like take an entire span of time As one person Yeah And do that

It's very very difficult And you know going in I'm gonna miss stuff because it's impossible. A hundred is not that many. No. It seems like a lot. It's a hell of a lot to write about.

I'll say that. But you're going to miss a lot of stuff. And I did get emails from people listing every single thing I miss. And it's like, I realize this. But like you try to make a list of 100 great indie rock records from the last 25 years and see if you can get every single one. That's great. You probably can. I'm going to tell you that right now.

So anyway, it's hard. You mentioned that there's been a lot of indie records that have been made in past 25 years. And, you know, there's maybe what, 276? So even then there's like, you're going to miss out on some. It's between 41 and 276. Somewhere in there. That's how many there are. Yeah, that's the exact number.

So, yeah, when I was thinking about like, okay, well, what if I were to make one like this, you know, funeral would have to be up there. But just the thought of wrapping my mind, like wrapping my mind around it, like cause it to kind of shut down anytime you like kind of similar to any time you try to read your end list on a on a phone and like the website like just completely crashes that's what my brain was doing is that a sub tweet by the way of a certain not a sub tweet no that's every website that is every single website I suppose you're right look I did a you know the emo list uh best uh 100 emo songs for Vulture back in 2020 and um you know I I wondered like whether it would be more difficult to do uh an individual 100 person like album list, it would absolutely be easier because, you know, I did the 100

group think one and that gets so much more into the funerals in Illinois. It's like, yeah, but we kind of have to put this one in there. And I like how you really double down on personal taste. That was very clear by putting the soft pact, formerly known as the Muslims, San Diego Legends at number 100. Yes. Yes. I love that. Also just got I definitely, you. You know I got at least to number in the 30s because you give me a little shout out in the bright eyes. Exactly. Yeah. I did put, I'm wide awake, it's morning.

I'm there. Because I did have a rule. I was only going to put one album by each artist. So that was another thing. That's a good rule. That was, okay, because you can pick the right artist, but then what if you pick the wrong album? And there are some artists where there's a lot of choices. The example I used was spoon.

You could have put any number of spoon albums on here. and I went with Kill the Moonlight but I'm sure a lot of people would have put Gimme Fiction or Gagga Gagga or girls could tell or maybe even

they want my soul if you're like a little bit younger than you and I are so that's another place On that note you know the whole like we are all one list away from the street if you want to know my spoon rankings

that's a list that's coming up later this year during the 20th anniversary of Gimmy me fiction. So there you go. I got quite a few lists coming, y'all. So,

especially for some of the artists that are, when you mentioned, you know, there's one, there's eight Beach House albums, but there's only one. I'm doing that ranking when Depression Cherry turns 10. So, yeah, that's going to be a big undertaking. I, the thing I got a little curious about was that you put Wild Pink on there, which I would do too, but you went with yolk in the fur. Yeah. I'm a billion little lights guy.

Yeah, it's funny because I originally had billion little lights, and then I was listening to the other ones. It was either billion little lights or yoke in the fur for me, and I went with yoke in the fur. I feel like that one's a little top-heavy, but, you know, I think... Oh, contrary, my friend. Side 2 is really, really great on that album. I think, to me, that is the best dissolution of all the things I like about that.

band in one record. But they're another band where you could put conceivably all five. Any number of them. They're a very good, they're a very good band. Yeah. I think the, I think the thing that, you know, most people would be kind of frustrated about is the meaning of the word indie, which you spent a lot of time talking about at the beginning. And, you know, for people who, I do want, like, I do think the way people get, like, upset about. that doesn't really mean indie. I thought of it like it's the equivalent of making a best alternative albums list in the 90s.

You know what I mean? Exactly. Because you mentioned like the strokes and the killers being the dividing line. What would it be for alternative? I thought like Pearl Jam is alternative but U2 isn't. Like what would be the alternative demarcation in the same way the jokes and the killers? That's a great question because I totally see the U2 Pearl Jam. thing, but then like Octune Baby, how can you not call that one of the great alternative

rock records of all time? But then how can you call you two alternative, like when they're literally playing stadiums that are the biggest band in the world? I mean, yeah, the indie thing, again, I was, I mean, I just tried to be up front with it at the start and say, look, a lot of this is going to come down to my gut feeling. Is this sort of indie in the ambient sense? Or is this indie in the sense of, if I were writing a history of indie music in the last 25 years, indie culture, would I have to talk about this artist? And, you know, like someone online gave me a hard time because I put Lana Del Rey on the list.

And it's like, okay, I understand that she's a very popular artist and why would you call her indie rock? But it's like, how could you not talk about indie culture in the last 25 years and not talk about Lana Del Rey? not just for her body of work, but the influence she's had another artist who are maybe more in the indie lane. It would be like talking, it'd be like saying, well,

Bob Dylan doesn't belong on a folk music list because he only made like a couple folk records at the beginning of his career. Well, it's like, well, yeah, but like those were hugely influential on anyone who subsequently made that kind of music. So that would be the argument I would make. I mean,

I would make the argument. It's like, was this album available on vinyl at Urban Outfitters? But I think they like Stock Taylor Swift albums too. So the entire argument falls apart after five seconds of scrutiny. But I thought I was on the right track. Well, you know, look, we could spend the whole episode talking about this. We should probably move on. I'll just say, go on up rocks, check out the column, react to it.

And just know I probably have you muted if you're going to react to it. So I won't hear it. But just pretend that I'm hearing it. nodding my head and I'm agreeing with everything you say. But on the real, probably try to do that on your desktop. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, any people that complain about a list crashing on their phone, it's like, can you just get out the laptop?

This is like a 13,000 word article, okay? And every website at StereoGum, pitch for every single one. It's a lot of content. You don't have to put down the phone for a second, sit back, and just take your time. You don't have to scroll. So you can get angry that like the one album that you love isn't on here. You know, take your time. Treat yourself.

Treat yourself to some nice music journalism presented to you in the form of a list. On Uprocks.com. It's a great way to live. We should say quick that our album draft for the second quarter that we would normally do today, we're not going to do today because we have a lot of albums to talk to, talk about. We haven't got to any of them yet. we have to hurry to get to those albums. But we're not going to do the draft.

We're going to do it next week. And I'm going to say that we're on the honor system here that if we happen to pick an album that comes out on Friday, the fourth, we're not going to look at Metacritic ahead of time to see how it's doing. You know, I'm going to trust that you are not going to be violating any NCAA bylaws, you know, with some insider trading type stuff that we're going to be honest here and not, look at Metacritic ahead of the draft. I'm going to be honest, though, I am probably going to pick an album that comes out on the fourth, but it's not even...

Okay, but don't look. Yeah, it's not even on Metacritic's upcoming release calendar, so that's how you know, I'm playing the field, you know. Calling your shot already. So you're confident that I'm not going to take that, that I'm not going to do my own little investigation, because you've just thrown it out there. Yes. So it's not even like I'm doing sort of, you know, espionage to figure out what's on your board.

You've just announced it. I have. So, and as a GM who's lost now, two drafts in a row, that's a little balsy of you. Can I just say? But you're apparently a confident guy. Yeah, throwing that smoke signals, you know, like, it's sort of like, you know, when you read the NFL draft, it's like they're, you know, a team will leak information that they're super interested in like one guy.

So a team behind them trades up in a panic. So this is all gamesmanship, Steve. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love your confidence. And I really think that I benefited in January because we did the draft store early in January. And a lot of albums got announced after that. And then Ethel Cain announced an actual new album.

Is that in the next quarter, too? I think it's, I don't know if it has a release date, but we'll see. I mean, and she also announced a huge tour. Yeah. With the album. So that tells me that this is like the real farmer's daughter following. up. This is going to have the bops on it. It's going to have

the anthems on it. Yeah, the songs are going to be six minutes, not eight. Yeah. All right, let's get to our full slate of albums because there are a lot of records out today. There's a lot of records that we're not talking about in this episode that are out today. We only have time to talk about

four. And three of them we're going to do in sort of like a lightning round situation. I know out of the three lightning round albums there's one I haven't heard yet, so I won't have a ton to say about it. Like I said, I was in Tulsa this week, so I'm still catching up. I'm also, I have that inevitable post-trip cold right now. I don't know if you usually get sick after traveling somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Usually it's like a common thing for me. Usually like I,

like I get sick on the trip and then we get home and I realize like my wife is caught whatever I have and she's like sick for a week. The last time I saw you in L.A. when I was on my book trip in June. I got COVID in LA. So, you know, and then I gave my wife COVID. And I didn't know that I had COVID until my wife tested herself for COVID. And because she was a lot more sick than me. I didn't get sick. I just had COVID. So that's like the worst thing. Not only did I give her COVID, she got way more sick than I did. So that that's been how it's worked out in my household as well. Yeah. God, just bad husbanding right there. I feel guilty about that. Anyway, let's get to our albums.

The first one we're going to talk about is the latest from Lucy Dacus. It's called Forever's a Feeling. And this is a momentous release for Lucy. It's her first album for Geffen Records, leveling up to a major, major label, the home of Don Henley and Guns and Roses, or at least it was a long time ago. This is also the first album since Boy Genius really took Lucy to another level of fame and industry prominence. This record is mostly produced by Lucy Dacus with Blake Mills,

who we talked about a bit last week. He's involved with the Japanese Breakfast record. And the dominant narrative with this album is that this is a record where Lucy is writing about her relationship with fellow boy genius member Julian Baker. And you don't have to read the lyrics that closely to see that she is writing about this relationship. she is writing about it very warmly.

It appears that things are very good right now in Lucy and Julian's relationship. So happy for them. That's great. I'll open up the conversation about the record with this. I feel like a little bit of a broken record making this criticism of the album because I said something similar

about Japanese breakfast last week. But, you know, I was listening to this record and I've been listening to it for a while. And, you know, I just feeling like, wow, this is very mid-tempo. It kind of feels like the same thing on every song. It's very lovely. It's very, you know, well-produced, great musicians on it. Clearly, you could tell, you know, she's on a major label, has the budget.

It has these great supporting people with her. But it made me go back to her early work. And I listened to the first record she put out, No Burden in 2016. And I was kind of shocked. to go back to that record. I don't know when the last time you listened to No Burden was, but it's amazing to listen to that record after hearing the Boy Genius record that came out in 2023

and hearing this album, Lucy Deke's used to, like, rock. You know, she used to have, like, audible guitars and audible drums. And, like, I was reading reviews of No Burden, and people often compared her to, like, Courtney Barnett. and like even like heartless bastards. I don't know if you remember that.

Oh, I remember heartless bastards. I like that comparison because, yeah, and I do remember that. I'm from 2016. I don't want to be funny anymore is very Courtney Barnettish. And yeah, it's funny because in 2016, that was the year the first big thief record came out. And I thought that kind of sounded like heartless bastards too. I know you disagree with me on that front. But like, yeah, I mean, I just think Adrian Linker's voice wasn't.

in the same lane as Erica Wintersrom. That's the singer from Heartless Bastards. But Lucy Dick had that kind of quality. It was more of a snarl in her vocals. And it was just musically rar and, again, more guitar-heavy and more rock, really than she sounded in a long time. And look, artists evolve. And you don't have to just sound like you did when you started out.

It's expected that you move in different directions and your music becomes more sophisticated. and I understand that and I support all of that. But there's something about Lucy Dacus' music. And I think it's about her voice. Her voice is such a distinct instrument. And I think it can be a real asset for her because her songs are very emotional

and I think her voice has a very emotive quality to it. There's something about the sound of her singing voice where it almost sounds like she's getting emotional as she's singing. and there's a way that she sings where you feel the suggestion of a deep well of emotion, but she's like holding back. So it's like a motive but restraint at the same time. And I think with her best music, that really comes through.

I also think it's kind of a limited instrument. And the thing about that voice is that if the music is also lulling or soft, then the whole package sounds a little. little what I would say triple A radio, you know, that that format, like that NPR type sounding music, I mean, for lack of a better term, that coffee shop sounding music, it just seems a little sleepy. And I feel like with her at her best, you need a little instrumental grit combined with that voice. And the, in the contrast, the dynamics there is what her sweet spot is. And as she's gotten more famous, it feels like she's moved away from that.

More and more. And this record feels like the apotheosis of that in a lot of ways, where the songs themselves are coming from a more contented place, which is great. But maybe it feels like there's less at stake a little bit in what's being expressed. And at the same time, the music is very lush and well produced. But again, I would say at times it feels, would it be harsh to say bland? I don't want to say bland because I think there's a lot of. crap going on here. But it doesn't feel that exciting really to listen to this record, I would say.

Yeah. So to get kind of like fourth wall busting with this, you ever like go into a review, like for sure, like I got the first paragraph written. This is how I'm going to approach this. And then you listen to the record's like, oh, this doesn't work anymore, but you fall in love with the joke and you want to fit it in anyway. I wanted to like I wanted this record thinking, oh yeah, is this going to be Lucy Dakes's version of Chance the Rapper's wife guy album? You know, and it's not, but, you know, in the meantime, I've come up with like just maybe a, I think a more accurate comparison of what's going on here. I think of it as her version of Death Cat for Cudies, Codes, and Keys.

That one is the album where Ben Gibbard wrote about his relationship with Zoe Deschanel. And it kind of lost the whatever grit was remaining, you know, as they were on a major label, Atlantic and just kind of got to a point where they've been doing their thing. And like Ben Gibber, Lucy Dacus does have a very distinctive voice and a very distinctive authorial voice and writing style where you hear it so much and it's like so embedded in the culture that just doing their thing feels a little like self-parity just by default. And I think that the music itself doesn't really help that. Like, I've always thought she's kind of teetered on the edge of boring. Like, not just, just in the sense of like, even compared to Phoebe Bridgers and Julian Baker, who, you know,

they're more like kind of musically emo to me. And so there's that kind of edge of danger and whatever they do that like, like, things are going to boil over. Whereas Lucy Dacis just makes me feel like, I know this might, you know, rub you the wrong way, but like a Jason Isbell album where like the lyrics are good, the music is crafty, and it doesn't really connect with me. But this time around... But have you listened to No Burton in a while, though? Like, I would say, go to like Troublemaker double-ganger, like the second track from Nobaden. That is so corny Barnett.

Like, it, I mean, I'm not saying this sounds like Queens of the Stone Age, but compared to what she's doing now. Like, that might as well be like, you know, songs for the deaf. I mean, it sounds way louder and more rocking. that anything she's come close to doing recently. And, you know, we'll talk about the lyrics in a minute here because I do think lyrically, I've always liked Lucy Degas's songwriting. I think that at her best, she's really good at sketching scenes that feel true to life that you can see in your head when you're listening to the song that convey some sort

of emotion or some sort of truth that is resonant when you hear the song. I do feel like on her recent efforts, there feels like, I'm not saying she's literally doing this, but it does feel like at times that the lyrics are written knowing that they're going to be memed. And it's almost like, I'm going to write a line that can become a meme.

And the line that people talk about from the Boy Genius record is that Leonard Cohen lyric about like horny poetry, that whole thing, which some people loved. Some people thought it was super cringe. I'm probably more on the super cringe side. with that lyric.

And there's other lyrics, I think, on this album that unfortunately are guilty of that. But again, I think for me, the music here, I just wish it was

not so ornate. I feel like a lot of the artists of this generation, as they become more successful, they're making this familiar mistake that artists of other generations have made,

that as they become more successful, they almost feel like they have to abandon the rawness of what they did early on and embrace a more mainstream sheen to their music. And I, sometimes that works, but I think a lot of times

it just makes the songs feel less urgent and to me, like, less exciting to listen to. And that to me is, I guess, my issue with this record. Yeah, I think, like Lucy Dacus albums kind of live or die by the lyrics. You know, and I think that, like,

you listen to a song like Night Shift, and thumbs, for that matter, that do the things that you talk about where it sets a scene. It feels real. It feels very drawn from experience. And, you know, we had this critique of the Boy Genius album that, like, some of the songs felt like they just had, like, it was very Twitter brain in a way where it's like you're just kind of, like kind of meme writing. I know that there's some lyrics that really hit that mark now.

And, I mean, maybe this is just where Lucy Dacus is. is at the moment and this is the music she wants to write. It just so happens to coincide with certain stylistic tics that I don't particularly love. So, yeah, I don't think it's going to like tank. What's the lyric? Because we were talking about this before. Like, do we want to talk about the Grand Theft Auto? Yeah, yeah, you and I, like.

What's the lyric? Do you have the lyric on hand? Yeah, it's like something about like Grand Theft Auto. It's like where it's like that should be caused for a. concern. And so have you played... It's from limerance, right? Yeah. Have you played Grand Theft Auto, by the way? I don't think I have, actually. Yeah. So I have, but like not since the early 2000s. And I have like a little bit of a bone to pick with the, the, the, uh, talking about Grand Theft Auto. I know Taylor Swift did the same thing on her last album. And that is to me, like, I don't know. It's so millennial code. It's like kind of safe to drop as a video game reference. Because, you know, I would love, like, I want to hear more about, like, the guys who are, like, more like people I know who are video game, people who are spending, like, six hours playing Call a Duty or, like, world, like, stuff that like, like, there's, there's not a shittiness to Grant Theft Auto.

Okay, can I, I just want to read this, this is a verse from Limerance just so we can have the full context here. Go for it. It's the first verse of Limerance, which is this very, uh, I think it was the first single. It was either the first or second single. There were. I don't think it was the first one. It was among the first songs that were released. Natalie's explaining limerance between taking hits from a blunt, high as a kite, while Roddy's playing GTA, Grand Theft Auto. I swear, why is he so good at this game? It should be caused for concern.

I'm just shoveling popcorn into my mouth, so I don't say the things that I'm thinking out loud. That's the beginning. That's the Grand Theft Auto reference. I'm not going to say anything about this necessarily because I feel like this is a little too MJ Lenderman adjacent and I don't want to be accused

of of hypocrisy here GTA references for me not for thee it is like a little weird in the context of the music of that song which is this very

again kind of baroque pop sounding ballad maybe the contrast could make that interesting but I think that it just it feels like

they're trying to like it feels less like reportage or just like things that you would see and more like stuff you see in a like you know how like you watch TV or movies and it feels like yeah this person like thought of this on Twitter it doesn't feel like there's like that uncanny sort of thing where it's like pulled from Twitter and put into real life rather than something observed in real life I mean to me the line the line that jumped out to me that as a clunker was in best guess which I think overall is like one of the catchier songs on the album. I understand. I get why I was put out as a single, because I think it does jump out from the record as being, like, relatively upbeat. Like, that song and Most Wanted Man,

which is at the back half of the record. I mean, Most Wanted Man is the most rocking song on the record. I'll put rocking in air quotes, because it doesn't rock that hard, but it's like the most musically outgoing. And it, to me, it leaps out of the record. It is clearly, I think, the most engaging song on the album, which I think for the most part is in this sort of mushy mid-tempo lane that feels a little samey over the course of the record. But best guess has the line, and this has been quoted, I think, a few times. Here's the church. Here's the steeple. You were looking for saints, but you only found people. We talked about this lyric already, and you were defending it a little bit, and I was explaining that this is based on the Sunday

school game that you play with your hands. You put your hands together. You say, here's the church, here's the people, open the doors, and here are all the people. All you, you know, the Lutherans out there will know what I'm talking about. Yeah, Lucy Dacus is not dropping Hebrew school lyrics, so I'm a little on the outside. You're out of your element. You're out of your element, Donnie. So, yeah, I don't know. This record overall, I don't want to call it a dud outright.

I think that overall, there's some good songs on here. I don't think there's anything on here that I would put with her best work. And it does feel a bit like a record that hopefully if you look at the arc of her career that she got this out of her system and it'll get her to another place where there's a better record after this. But yeah, I don't know. To me, it just feels underwhelming. Yeah, I think underwhelming. It's not going to be a bomb.

It's not going to have backlash. It might have a little. But, you know, we're going to see Lucy Dacus and like, we're all. Rolling Stone top tens as long as she drops albums. So yeah, I think she, it's a survive and an advanced type record for me. Okay, so we have, all right, so we're done with Lucy here. We're going to move on to our other three new releases this week. And we're going to do these relatively quickly.

I feel like these albums are, in some cases, I care about it more than you. In other cases, you care about it more than me. But they're all worth talking about. And let's get into it here. first record we're going to talk about is Dan's boogie, which I love that title. It's the 14th studio album from Destroyer, also known as Dan Behar. I'm going to see the floor to you first because this is a record that I feel like is probably more of a me record than you record. So I just want to hear your thoughts and then maybe I'll follow you up with what I think. Yeah, Destroyer has such,

I have such an interesting relationship with Destroyer because on paper, like a lot of what Destroyer stands for are things that I typically really dislike. His music is very clever. It's Arch. A lot of Steely Dan being thrown out there. And yet, Ruby's Caput love those records. I think they just maybe happened to drop at a time in my life where I was like very receptive to them.

But I don't have like Destroyer records I kind of sort of like, you know, like my 7. point five-ish ones. Like, Trouble and Dreams have some good songs, but I remember really not liking poison season, so I was very interested when you called that perhaps the best aged record of 2015. I'll have to go back to that. This new record, I feel like I like it more than the past couple. I also feel like Dan is going way deep into the free association, like, you know, like

destroyer bot sort of things, which can be entertaining. But I also feel like, man, it'd be cool if I understood what the fuck he was talking about. So yeah, I like the hydroplaining off the edge of the world. Great song. I enjoy this. I do wonder if it's like where it stands. And I think this is something that you'd be more able to speak to within like the Destroyer. You know, I say that word, oh, you, E, V-R-E-U-V-R-V or whatever, but I always sound stupid when I say it.

So I need... Uvra? OU-R-R? Yeah. Discography? Yeah. I'm like generally, surprisingly maybe, yay on Destroyer. but you know i it's mostly just show my age where like where i was like really really in a space

to uh love kaput love rubies and just be kind of a casual observer of everything else that happened after the fact all right so i am a huge fan of destroyer uh spoiler alert on my indie rock list i actually put kaput at number two yeah on my uh favorite albums indie rock albums of the 21st century. I could have easily put rubies in that spot. It was really between rubies and Caput. And the reason I put Caput on there is that I just felt like it had a greater cultural significance. Oh, without a doubt. Than Rubies does. Caput is the record in the popular consciousness for Destroyer. I would also say that I feel like he was ahead of the curve in embracing certain sonic textures in Indy Rock that became much more in vogue after Caput. It's funny because

that record is often likened to Steely Dan. I think it's much closer to like Roxy Music Avalon and like the new romantic music of the early 80s than Steely Dan. Because Steely Dan doesn't really have any sort of romance to it. Like Goucho in particular. It's not a romantic record. It's a very brittle, cold, cynical record. And that's what's brilliant about it.

But it's not romantic in the way that I think Destroyer is and the way that I think Roxy Music is. even though there's a lot of cynicism and humor in kaput as well. This record I'm on board with. I mean, I'm a pretty easy sell, I think, with Destroyer. It's hard for me to say where it fits in the overall catalog at this point. I mean, it's a big catalog. There's a lot of records.

I would say that what stands out to me about Dan's bookie is that it does feel a bit like him integrating what he has done on say like the previous three records which were more in this kind of like new order synthi rock vein and taking that and integrating the sort of shambolic destroyer of like rubies and

even some of the early 2000s records like this night and uh and street hawk um like it feels kind of like that has some of the energy of like those band records but musically it's maybe more in line with the more recent destroyer. So if you love this band, I think you're going to get

a lot of the flavors that you like in one package that is like 38 minutes long, very digestible. I should also shout out here my other podcast, Neverending Stories, my Dylan podcast.

Dan Behar was recently a guest and he was awesome. Very great interview. He's one of my favorite people to interview of all time. We talked a lot about Bob Dylan, but we also talked a lot about his career.

say that Behar to me is the closest thing in modern Andy Rock to a Dylan in the sense that I think he has this big career that has very distinct eras in the same way that Dylan does. Also just as a personality, he is on one hand, I think, enigmatic and sort of inscrutable and maybe even perverse and a bit of a weirdo. And then on the other hand, he's very funny and I think self-aware and very grounded. And that's the impression you get when he actually talk to him. He's a very understated guy, but has, I think, a really good sense of, like, where he fits in the world and where pop culture is and just a great perspective on it. So can't say enough about Dan Behar. I love him. I love that he's putting out records every few years, and I'm always first in line to get them.

Definitely one of my favorite people working right now. So that's Destroyer. Let's get to death their new record out today, lonely people with power. This is their first record. Is this the first record in like four years? Yeah, Infinite Granite came out in 2021. I did a long interview with them for The Ringer. And yeah, and it was really interesting because, yeah, in 2021, Infinite Granite came out. And that was like Death Heaven going more towards like a shoegasy, clean sort of sound,

You know, it was very divisive, like in a real divisive way, not like, oh, I saw some like chatter on Twitter. People didn't like it. I thought it was a move they had to make because, look, I love New Bermuda when it first came out. And I love the one that came after that. But I also felt like they had kind of boxed themselves in. Like, they just kind of need, not that there was like diminishing returns, but the things that they were starting to incorporate, like maybe shorter songs or maybe more smashing pumpkins guitars, it didn't. it didn't it didn't like what happens with them is like when i want to listen to deaf heaven i'm always going to go to sunbather you know you can't do kind of like sunbather and think i'm going to like

listen to that instead so i appreciate that this album is being called the return to form though um even though it's got paul banks reading poetry on it um i hope that really gets you interested in listening to this album day of um and it's really good i mean these guys know what they're doing um It is kind of doing, it's not trying to remake Samba there too. But it puts the songs and maybe they're a bit shorter. Not all the songs are eight minutes. And I just think they're in this space where they're not going to like rewrite metal history anymore. But they found a good niche.

They are not trying to be like a Mastodon type arena act. And at the same time, as much as I like this record and maybe it'll make my ear end list, they're kind of like a band like magwai to me where if I want like magwai type material I'm going to listen to a young team even though all their albums are pretty good so I know you feel I know you're like a deaf having guy um kind of generally right yeah I mean Sun Bay there definitely is a record that stands out in a moment in time as being a really impactful record for me and that was also on my indie rock list somewhere in the middle of the pack and I haven't enjoyed the records that they put out sense. I actually did like them moving in more of a pure dream pop shoegaze direction, probably because that is the side of them that I've always responded to most strongly in using black metal as like a counterpoint to that or as a, you know, a shot of like, you know, coomint or something. You could put in the dish and really give you a jolt or whatever. So I got to say, I haven't heard this record yet. I don't know if I'd

got this record? And if I did, I haven't had a chance to listen to it just because I was out this week and I was busy with other deadlines and just being out of town. So I'm going to recuse myself from talking about this record specifically. But I'm seeing a lot of, again, return to form type press about it. So I'm curious to hear how that sounds. But yeah, I just think that they've been a consistent band, even though they do feel like a band that is always going to be defined by one album no matter what they do. And it's not their fault. It's just... It's so good. Yeah, it's just a compliment that you made a record like that. But, you know, there's probably people that would say the same thing about destroyer and Caput, and I would disagree with them. So the deaf heaven heads would probably

take issue with that. Let's move on to the final record in our trilogy of quick hits this week, and that's Perfume Genius. New album out is called Glory. And just, looking at our outline here, it's interesting because I think we kind of fall in the same place with perfume genius where, you know, on one hand, this is one of the most acclaimed Indiacs really of the last, what, decade or so? 15 years. I mean, their first album came out in 2010, and that was like one of those records that comes out, I believe, kind of independently, and they got signed to Matador, did a re-release. You know, that was kind of a little bit under the radar, but I know that was like one of those

records where people learn about it a little bit too late for it to make year-end list, and then a lot of that momentum is projected upon the next one, put your back into it. That came out in 2012. But yeah, 15 years, Perfume Genius has been doing, and I think, I don't think you can find a more consistently critically acclaimed artist over the past 15 years than him. Yeah. And I do wonder if it's a situation that we've often talked about on this show where at this point, is it just the person that cares about perfume genius that's going to get assigned the

review? And then you're guaranteed, like, you know, at least like an 80 on Metacritic. I mean, this one's at 93 at the moment. Well, holy shit. Okay, so that, that's a pretty incredible track record. You know, with Perfume Genius, there are moments where when I listen to the records or it's not even the whole album, it's usually just like the singles or songs that come out and bubble up, when I'm listening to those songs, and I think, this is the best shit.

We're going right now. One song in particular really jumps out to me. That song Describe. Oh, that's so good. Which was one of the singles from the 2020 record, set my heart on fire immediately, which came out, like, I think, right before the pandemic.

It's, like, yeah, it's very early pandemic to me. Yeah, I think it might have come out right before the pandemic. or maybe the singles came out before the pandemic and the actual record came out during the shutdown? Yeah, the record came out in May. But I remember describe... Came out early March.

Because I tweeted about it. I saw this tweet that I did in 2020. It was March 6th, 2020. So it was definitely released early March. That's when I was tweeting about it. And that song is so good. It's so good. And it's like the sludgy evil sound,

evil side of perfume genius. and I really respond to that but then there's also like the ballady side of perfume genius and maybe that comes out more on the albums that I don't respond to as much like I kind of wish it was more of that like evil sludgy stuff

that you hear described like I'd want more of that like that song is awesome but maybe the albums overall don't always hit for me I haven't really dug deep into glory yet I have to say so it's hard for me to comment to have you dug into glory? Yeah.

Yeah. Like my wife's a huge fan of perfume genius. And as far as, you know, whether it's the one guy, like it's a Yolotango. I still think perfume genius commands a lot of, like, active critical heat. You know, I think that when perfume genius drops an album, it's like almost guaranteed to be like a top 20 at most publications. He's kind of like a music critic, creative player. like you know he does like kind of a like a theatrical kate bush sort of thing and you know the lyrics like deal with like overtly queer um you know topics he's really funny on twitter he's popular but never too popular like he he hasn't defined an era in the same way that like animal collective or deer hunter does and you know all of his albums like work they're not quite as distinct from each other as say destroyers but each one has its own quality to it i do think that uh when all said and done set my heart and fire immediately. He's going to be the definitive one. It's the longest one.

It covers the most ground. And nothing at all, I think that's another incredible single where it's almost like Heartland Rock. Like it's got that kind of heart pumping war on drugs buildup. And, you know, he's just maybe like a Frank Gore, a non-problematic Carl Malone, just piling up points every year and being a Hall of Famer, but never really being that guy. Even if he's like one of the most celebrated albums artists of his era, in a way he's more of a singles artist to me. Like as much as like Queen is another example of just really distorted bass sludgy. Perfine genius that works really well. Fool is just an incredible song about a topic that is really hard to write about,

just about like kind of being like the token gay friend in a female group. and slip away is another just amazing single. And it makes me think, like, man, I need to revisit the Perfume Genius albums. Like, what if they're all like this? But I feel like the side bees tend to get more heavy on the scene chewing piano ballads, which don't really hit with me. I know they're super important to a lot of Perfume Genius fans. I will say, though, that live, he is loud.

He plays really, really loud, live, which is really, really cool to see. hand habits. I think that you're a fan of hand habits, right? Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, Meg Duffy plays guitar live for Perfume Genius. And yeah, it's an artist who I respect a lot and also one that like I really want an album of his to blow me away. I really, really

do. Glory is sort of akin to I think Dan's boogie just in the sense. Like it's, you know, it's a really good late Perfume Genius album. It's obviously being received really well. Is it the one I'm going to return to? It's a mirror.

It's a great lead single. The only album I don't like of his is the one that came out in 2012 or 2020. I forget what that one was called. It was not, no, it was ugly season. Yeah, that's his poison season to me. So don't put on an album with season in the title or Ian Cohn's kind of come get you. I mean, that's the lesson here. If you're a legacy artist I like, actually, well...

Like season rock, Ian is not a fan of. Season rock, get it out of here. We've not reached the part of our episode that we call it Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so I have an Up Rock's profile running about this band. It should be up as we speak. It is a band called Palmyra.

So given how much I miss album pros that I'm actually looking forward to, it's kind of a my or miracle this one crossed my path and like I was just happening to look in my inbox because some of the aspects of this band that immediately stood out to me where it's like they met at a Virginia college you know I went to UVA they went to James Madison they mentioned a comparison such as early bright eyes Sunday day real estate and band of horses um yeah I mean yeah stop digging you hit oil right so I'm thinking of myself like this is this is like a band I'm like a little skeptical of it because like it's so targeted to terms of my interest that I have

to just be a little bit wary that I'm being panned to but their album Restless which comes out today is something I really really enjoy like it it it's a little pandering to me but I like this stuff so their early stuff sounded like way more like Avent brothers or Wood brothers they had

like it's like Virginia kind of roots music but this one does more drums it's got more distorted guitar they put some fuzz on the upright bass and if you'll like you know, like maybe some, like, songs like Hotel Arizona type Wilco or Slaughter Beach Dog or if like the Bright Eyes Dawes collaboration lean more towards, you know, the latter side of things, you're going to like this record. It's just really fits in well with, you know, the Fust album or

the Dutch Interior album, but a little more like youthful, a lot more emo. I feel if like this came out when I was a Virginia student in 2000, I'd probably follow this band on tour, you know, but as a 45-year-old in San Diego, I'm enjoying it. So Palmyra, Restless, go read about it at Uprocks.com. Damn, that sounds up my alley. I'm going to check that out for sure. I want to talk about a guy, I think I've talked about him on the show. If not, I'm talking about him now.

His name's Charlie Crockett. He's a country singer from Texas. He put on a record called Lonesome Drifter, I think a week or two ago this month. I just haven't had a chance to talk about it yet. I've had other albums to recommend in the old recommendation corner. but Charlie Crockett he's very prolific he puts out

at least one album a year and there's been years where he's put out a couple including last year he put out two albums that were both quite good and I would say you know the fastest analogy I would make for Crockett's music is that like what Daptone Records was

to R&B music in the 2000s and 2010's like the prime period of like Sharon Jones like what they did for that kind of music, that's what Charlie Crockett does for country. This is very classic sounding country music, I would say like 50s and 60s, sort of pre-Bakersfield sound, but also definitely going into that world as well. Always a mix of originals and covers.

He's like really good at like binding older country songs to play on his records. On this particular record, it ends with this great George Strait song from the early 80s called Amarillo by Morning, which M.J. Lenderman is also covered recently on his tour. So George Strait having a moment right now in the country and country adjacent indie rock worlds. But again, the production on these records is great. It sounds great. Charlie Crockett is a really cool singer. He has this deep kind of croonery voice. And he just has a great ear for material, whether it's his own material or for covers. I always enjoy his records. They're always a good time. We're coming into the season where you really need an album like Lonesome Drifter if you're going to be having a cookout.

So definitely keep it in mind if you are having that type of party at your house. Charlie Crockett, Lonesome Drifter, really good record. Yeah, the last time George Strait was this much in the dialogue was when Drake named dropped all my exes live in Texas in 2011 on Take Care. But yeah, I got a notice about the 20th anniversary of Sharon Jones's now. naturally. So the Dapton thing, yeah, that was an era, man. That like really, really puts me back. So yeah, I'm in trying. Yeah, I'm like kind of getting, like, I feel like I'm on a one week lag with your recommendation corner things. I love that fussed album. I'll probably like the Charlie Clack at one as well. So yeah, let's get porchy with it. Yeah, man. Yeah, again, country music, if you're, if you like that old school sounding type stuff, 50s 60s, jangly type country, you're going to love it. That about does it. for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week,

and we'll send it directly to your email box.