Indiecast - New Albums from The Mars Volta, Death Cab For Cutie, Whitney, and Young Jesus

Episode Date: September 16, 2022

This summer's Indiecast episodes have leaned banter heavy thanks to a slow trickle of review-worthy indie albums. But this week, it seems like every indie band got together to give the people want they want: an all-meat Indiecast episode. On this week's episode, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen review four albums: The Mars Volta's self-titled LP (17:43), Death Cab For Cutie's Asphalt Meadows (28:42), Whitney's Spark (40:41), and Young Jesus' Shepherd Head (51:44).In the Recommendation Corner (1:00:15) this week, Ian gave a shout out to Top Shelf Records. The indie record company announced this week they were royally screwed over by their main distribution company abruptly shutting down, and founder Kevin Duquette said all their inventory is being held in limbo. Ian also urges listeners to check out a new joint project by Philly bands They Are Gutting A Body Of Water and A Country Western. Meanwhile, Steven recommends Daniel Romano, a very prolific Canadian musician who put out eight albums in 2020 alone ranging from folk to punk rock.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 106 here or below and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by the Mars Volta, Death Cab for Cutie, Whitney, and Young Jesus. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He was the first person to make a Smith's choke after the queen died.

Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? I think we need to include our outline notes as is. say that there was a point where you're like, maybe make a joke about the queen dying, you know, like broken social scene just looked like, looks just like the sun where we like kind of throw the in, uh, in progress commentary on there. I think that's, I think that's like kind of an indication of like what this was like for our American timeline where it's like, yeah, I don't know, I guess we got to say something about this, even though I don't feel a certain type of way about it.

I mean, were you personally affected by it? No, one thing I was affected by the, is to go back to the joke I made in the intro, I did make a queen is dead joke on that day, but it was early, and it was before the queen actually died. I think what I said was, if the queen is dead, the Smiths must reunite. And I got some good engagement from that. But, you know, it's one of those things where you make a joke early on,

and I think I was relatively early on that. I'm not saying this is the most original concept, but I was early on it. But then by the end of the day, when there's like a million of those jokes, you almost feel like, oh, should I delete my joke? Because now I just look like I'm one of, you know,

the people in the herd, just saying the same thing over and over again. I wish that Twitter would have some sort of designation for, like, the first 100 jokes that are made before it becomes officially tired. Like, just like a blue ribbon saying, like, okay, you were in early on this. So you should get credit.

for coming up with this concept before it just became the most tiresome meme of the day. Because again, you just feel like, oh, wait, I was early on this, but in the eyes of history, I'll just be viewed as like another dope who made a Smith's Queen is Dead joke on the day the queen died. I also appreciate more than the Queen is Dead Smith's jokes, the people who like, you know, came to the rescue where they were like, hey guys, before you make this joke about the Smith, there's a few things you need to know about Morrissey. It's problematic politics.

Right. Or Johnny Rotten, like the whole sex pistols, God Save the Queen thing. It's like, can we just give it a rest? Is there anyone who knows who the Smiths are that isn't aware that Morrissey is an obnoxious person who has said many dumb things? Can't we just enjoy this stupid,

a joke on the day the queen died. Do you have to do it today this thing? I don't know. It's like the best and the worst of online culture right there. It's so much fun to make jokes about the queen dying. Like that was a great day. Oh, great day. Most of the best days on Twitter are like real RIP bozo.

And like, again, like we don't. I really hope we don't get like this shit ton of backlash from our listeners in the UK who found the queen to be, you know, this very influential or just meaningful symbol to them. Like, I think there is like the possibility of it. But, um, yeah. You think our listeners are going to be upset about us making fun of the queen? Maybe there is like a provincial thing because we're Americans doing it.

I could see that. It's like, we can make fun of the queen because we're English, but you can't do it because you're an American. although I will say the original mean tweet about the monarchy, the Revolutionary War, motherfuckers. That's what the fuck is up. That was the original mean tweet, man, about the monarchy. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Seriously, like literally, like one of those like corn cob pipes that they smoked back in the day. Wait, I'm just curious, though, have like the Smiths, like, I get the feeling that, like, the Queen is Dead hat, not like a fucking running up that hill type boost, but I imagine that maybe it's like a viral hit now, like kind of a reverse candle in the wind. Like has there been like

any uptick in like Smith's hits? Like we're going to start to see like on the Billboard top 100 chart. It's going to be number one running up that hill, number two, master of puppets and number three, the queen is dead. Yeah, I don't know.

I feel like if that song were more like candle in the wind and Morrissey was singing about the young queen and how, you know, well, she didn't really live her life like a candle in the wind because this can't. She's like 96 years old. This is like a, you know, a flaming torch in a very still room, you know, like just something that did not get blown out very easily. Yeah, like a Yankee candle or something like that. That's just like the most incredibly thick vanilla scented joint you could think of. I imagine that God Save the Queen probably got more spins because if you just listen to the chorus, and you don't know anything about the context of that song,

you could almost mistake it for a tribute to the queen. So I could see that song being big, but the queen is dead. It's a little too harsh maybe in the title. Well, you know what? If anything, I'm just looking forward to the day that JPEG Mafias, I can't fucking wait until Morrissey dies becomes a hit.

Even more so in the queen dying, boy, the day Morrissey dies. One thing I thought was funny too was when people got upset about Johnny Rotten paying tribute to the queen. Yeah. That he wasn't like, I don't know what they expected him to say. It's like, hey, fuck you, queen, punk rock forever. You know, like, come on.

Are you really invested in Johnny Rotten's punk credibility in 2022? Are there people who actually get upset that he is not living up to the punk way of life. Well, there's a TV show about this band just this past year, and I don't know if anyone watched that show and thought, oh, man, this was like, this is a real edgy revolutionary type band. I mean, I think someone said, like, on Twitter, it's like, you know, most people actually like the sex pistols aren't in a nursing home at this point.

Like, I don't know who's, I don't know who's expecting. I like the sex pistols. I, the thing with the sex pistols is that they're a bad punk band, but they're in a amazing hard rock band. If you're listening to them because you expect them to signify revolution or whatever kind of bullshit, then yeah, you're going to be let down. But if you just like Steve Jones and awesome guitar parts, they're a great band. I will totally defend them on that level.

I think on a purely kind of musical kind of sleaze rock level, I think that they're a great band. And I think that what the people are going to want is for us to do the entirety of this episode in your British accent. So I don't care that we're talking about like dominantly American bands. Like how fun would it be to talk about Whitney? Actually, I think Whitney's a good band to talk about in a fake British accent. So let's go with that.

Let's let's feel this one out. Well, you know, you talked about our international listeners getting offended. I feel like when I do accents, that is the most offensive thing. And I can see why. It is, well, it's cultural appropriation. It's also it's caricature. It's like. best of both worlds

Yeah So I don't mean that With this respect I mean it with love It's just that I'm not very good at impressions But the only way you get better is by Practicing into a microphone And then posting the results

Online so hopefully By the end of this show Like in many many years Hopefully I'll be like Rich Little on here You will not be able to tell That it's actually me when I do accents The kids totally will understand That Rich Little right

I know. I mean, even for people our age, Rich Little is a dated reference. You know, like, I feel like I know Rich Little because I watched reruns of sitcoms in the 70s, like, when I was a little kid. But even then, it was already old. Yeah, I talked about Ripple at work. It's this new milk that's made from peas. And then I had to explain to them what Sanford and Son was. But let's just say that Sanford and Son has not achieved a lot of. cultural penetration amongst people who are under the age of 40. Weren it.

Weren it. We're in it. We're in it. We're in it. That's a good show. Kids, check out Sanford and Son. Red Fox.

Come on. All right. Let's get to our mailbag segment. Thank you all for writing in. It's always great to hear from our listeners. If you want to hit us up, we're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. You want to read this one, Ian? I absolutely do.

And I'm not going to attempt to do an accent of Jordan from Detroit. I don't know how I'd begin. to do a Jordan from Detroit accent, but maybe that's something I can work on to spice up things here during the mailbag. So anyway, Stephen and Ian, how do you feel about remixes and remix albums? I remember back in the odds, again, always a phrase that gets into my heart. Remixed albums were pretty standard for indie artists. Death from above 1979. Block party, France Ferdinand, Phoenix, and Health come to mind when I think back to my old iPod and scrolling for which version of Listomania I want to listen to. Do you think,

Remixes have a place in 2022. I really can't think of any high-profile remix from indie or even mainstream artists. Love the Pod. Jordan from Detroit. Yeah, so this is an interesting question. He's pointing out something, Jordan from Detroit. Thank you again for writing in. I hadn't really thought about this at all, but he's right.

There was a thing. I would even go to the 90s. The 90s, for me, is what I really associate remix albums with, just because that was a time where a rock band having like an electronic makeover was a real novelty. You know, like U2 putting out like multiple

dance remixes of even better than the real thing. You know, things like that. That was, I think, more unusual then than it is now. I really associate remix albums in that air with nine inch nails. I feel like they put out a bunch

after the downward spiral came out. And then, yeah, then we get into the odds. One thing I want to ask, ask you is because when I think about remixes and the odds, I think about mashups, how mashups were a big deal in that era. But is that a separate category? Because I think of it as like a subgenre of remixes, but is, but should we not, but is that some, is that its own silo? I would say that remix or mashup albums are like a completely different sort of genre for me,

because if we're talking about like remix, if we're talking about that, then we get into like the gray album, you know, Danger Mouse and Jay-Z and then, you know, like DJ Rpture. I think that like mashups are completely,

in some ways they can be like super simple but also massively complicated. But remix albums to me are more curated, if that makes any sense. So I think they put, I think they just have a different sort of place. But I love,

Look, when you mentioned that... You mentioned Danger Mouse and Jay-Z, but what about something like Collision Course from the 2000s, the Lincoln Park J-Z album, where it is a mash-up thing, but aren't they remixing their songs, essentially? I know what you mean. Like, they feel separate to me, but I don't know.

I wonder how they fit together. Because I feel like in a way that might explain why remixes aren't as big now, because I feel like mashups became such a gimmick in the 2000s and it's really associated with that era where maybe remix has kind of lost their shine for that reason. I would say that like mashups, I mean, mashups, like, you know, we've been hearing as long as we've been alive,

we live in a post genre era. And so mashups are always going to be seen as, I don't know, like predominantly corny with like one exception that otherwise proves the rule. But like what Jordan's talking about, about to me, the ones that he's mentioning, like, Death from Above, Block Party, I think Stars had a remix album back in 2005 or six, where it's, you get a, like, a collection of artists to, like, each person reimagines the song. And I've seen a few of them recently, like, with

albums that I suit, like, that are some of my favorite of all time. There was a White Pony remix album with DJ Shadow and Robert Smith and people like that with the 20th anniversary. reissue. Near My God had a remix album with Mike Shinoda from Lincoln Park on there. Glass Beach had one as well. And you know, I think with like remix albums,

they definitely do have a place in 2022 because like what is our current era at a time where bands need to put out as much content as possible. This is a pretty low investment way to do so. But the thing about like remix albums, they're like almost never, ever good.

almost always like super whack. The Block Party Silent Alarm Remix Alam might not just be the best in the remix album of all time. It might be like the only good one. I'm not sure if there's like any one that you have a particular affinity for. Yeah, I mean,

they just seem unnecessary most of the time. You know, where like you said, it feels like it's more about creating content than creating music that feels essential. You know, I feel like you would put out a remix record. And this is probably, I think, true of like the Nine-H Nails example,

is that they just kept putting out remix albums because it just took so long for the fragile to come out. So you have to, you know, let's do a remix album because we need a release, you know. And that's what it felt like in the 90s when groups did that. I mean, I think about like the cure, you know, they did that all mixed up, remix record. And the version of Close to Me from there, I feel like is actually can. I mean, I know it was like on a greatest hits album. Galore, I think, was the greatest hits record.

Alor is that one, yeah. And they used the all mixed up version of Close to Me on that record. So maybe that's why in my mind I think of that as the definitive version of that. So that might be a good one. You know, I was, to go back to the mashup example, I wonder to what degree, you know, because we're talking about albums here, I wonder if remixes have a life on 10. TikTok. And I asked this because across my timeline this week, I don't know if you saw this, but like Kyle Rittenhouse has been in a bunch of TikTok videos where it's like him and I think

it's his girlfriend lip syncing to different songs. This sounds like a totally dystopian thing. I don't want to do this episode anymore. Like I am like all the words that you're talking about. I saw this TikTok trend Come on my like next thing you're going to tell me They did the fucking corn song about it's corn No but I mean this is why a movie like don't look up That Netflix movie That's why those movies don't work because you can't satirize modern life

Modern Life is constantly satirizing itself But anyway he was in this video with his girlfriend And he was singing this song It was a mashup of our song by Taylor Swift And M83's Midnight City which sounds it's like I somehow made this worse this scenario

it just gets worse and worse but my sense is that that song is like a TikTok hit so like a bunch of people are doing videos with it so I don't know if there's maybe I feel like I'm a thousand years old talking about this but I just wonder

like if maybe it's having a life in that universe it absolutely is and, you know, there is like the fan-made remix that you're talking about or just, you know, like I mentioned, the song where the kids eating corn where people make remixes of that. But, yeah, I just love the fact that Jordan from Detroit, you know, put it more into our context, like, you know, by mentioning Death from Above 1979. I would like to see more indie remix albums because they're super fun and easy to review and they're like almost always easy to shit on. So, yeah, I wouldn't mind putting it. few hundred dollars in my pocket. Well on that note, let's get to our list of albums here. We have a lot of albums to talk about today. And there's even albums that we could have talked about, but we just didn't have time for. But we have four records here. Some indie lifers, some relative newcomers.

Let's start with the Mars Volta. Now, this is a group that came out of at the drive-in, features Omar and Cedric from that band. They put out their last record before this one in 2012, and then they went, I guess we can now call it a hiatus, though at the time it seemed like a breakup. But those two guys, they got back together again in around 2019, and they started working on music. And now we have this new self-titled record out today, the first Mars Vulture record in 10 years. And if you know anything about Marzbollah, you know that they were known. in the aughts as this just insanely

convoluted just instrumental firepower Prague rock band just insane time signatures very complicated songs almost to a comical degree I mean in a way I kind of think of them as like muse without the irony

you know that's in a way what the Mars Volta is and I say that with affection because I do enjoy a few of their records With this self-titled record, however, in a way they've done the most radical thing they could have done. Because instead of following the old template of those Prague rock epics, they've made the most pop-oriented record that they've ever made. I mean, these songs are relatively compact. They're all about four or five minutes long. Again, they have a strong pop influence.

I would say that if you have listened to, you mentioned Near My God by Foxing, obviously TV on the radio, bands like that, you'll have an idea of what this record sounds like, which, again, is very different from the classic Mars Volta sound. So, Ian, I'm curious, well, first of all, I'm curious, like, what do you think about Mars Volta generally? And then what are your feelings about this record? Yeah, I love that.

We're, like, bringing it back from TikTok and, like, hyper modern trends to Mars Volta with their 77-minute, like, guitar solos. First off, my opinion of Mars Volta will forever be shaped by De Laosan the Cometorium, their first album. A classic of the 699

Best Buy era in 2003. I remember mowing my parents lawn listening to that alongside the choral self-titled and highly evolved. I didn't like it very much. Not because I was like such a at the drive-in purist.

I did like the first Sparta. album, I think it's worth mentioning. But you mentioned that like they're mused without irony. To me, they're like tool in a way without like, like I know it's going to sound ridiculous. It's like it's tool without the songs. But like, you know, no matter how like convoluted and intellectually dense and impenetrable tool album is, they'll usually throw in something like stink fist or, you know, the infamous hooker with a penis or sober or something like that, something that, something that like can draw you in and like make you feel like you're on solid ground. Whenever I listen to Mars Volta albums, I felt it was just like four or five guys soloing at

the same exact time, which, you know, could be interesting in a way. But then I see the fact that it's like 10 songs, 78 minutes. Like I don't have time for that shit. You know what I mean? Plus I heard the widow. Like I think I the widow is where I kind of like, you know, completely lost track. it to me like a, I don't know, like a hair metal ballad as performed by Rush. Yeah, I'm going to say it more generously than you. I mean, there's like a, there's a Zeppelin

vibe to that song to me. You know, it has that shouting from the edge of a cliff type epic rock feel to it. I mean, I have warmer feelings toward this band historically than you do. I also had De Laos in the Cometatorium and Francis the mute. That's the second record. That's the one that the widow came from. I like Prague rock from the 70s, and obviously Mars Volta is drawing from that tradition of, like, Yes, and ELP and King Crimson, around the time that those early Mars Volta records came out, that's when I started listening to, like, Fusion era Miles Davis, and that's definitely another influence on this band.

And I think I just appreciated that at the time, there really was no other band like them that was as mainstream as them. You know, just this, again, crazy instrumental band that could just shred. You know, I mean, they're not an instrumental band. They were vocals, obviously. But I'm just saying instrumentally just so much firepower that I really dug it. And I think I always enjoy a band that is that invested in their own schick. I mean, they, there was, again, like, there was no sort of like raised eyebrow. There's no ironic distance going on.

they were full bore into what they were doing, even if it sometimes seemed ridiculous. What's interesting to me, and I want to get your take on this, you said you didn't really like the early records. They've really gone away from that sound now. Do you feel like that's an improvement, or is it just the same old thing for you? So, I mean, as much as I, like, would prefer not to listen to the Mars Volta early material. I did respect it in the way you mentioned. I do appreciate that there was some space for something like that in the greater rock world in 2005-2008. The Bedlam and Goliath was my first pitchfork headline review, so I'll always be forever grateful for that. But with this album, like you mentioned, these songs are more compact.

When I was listening to it, I was surprised at the fact that these songs, ended after three minutes. And so I enjoyed that fact of it. It's like, and it also reminded me of like the last Foxing album in certain places. I think also maybe

some passion pit in there as well because, you know, the falsetto vocals going on. Like that's, it makes me think of an indie rock band in that way. And, you know, I know the guys in Foxing fucking love Mars Volta. So that's like a compliment to them. And I

enjoyed how, you know, they threw in the Latin percussion, like, in the beginning of the song, rather than you having to wait through, like, a two-minute guitar solo to get there. And I wondered what it would be like if you were to give a blind taste test of this to somebody. Like, someone, you didn't say it was the Mars Volta. You said, hey, this is this new band on International Leisure or whatever, and they're touring with crumb. How do you pronounce that? Krambangan, or what's that band's name?

Krongbin. Karangben or like Little Dragon or like one of those types of bands and you I figure they might be down with it. Now does this mean the album is good? My take on is that it is more pop. It is more accessible. But I also think to myself, man, if I'm like going to listen to Mars Volta, I kind of want the Mars Volta. I think it doesn't go quite pop enough. You know, it's accessible music. It's not. really pop, so it stays in this kind of like middle lane of, you know, this is different for a Mars Volta album, but I'm not quite sure what they're getting to. I don't remember any of it by the time it's done. Yeah, you know, I said when we were introducing this album that making a record like this in a way is the most radical thing Mars Volta could have done, because you can only get so expansive in your music. I mean, it was impossible, I think, for the Mars Valta to be more

Prague than they already were. This seems like a natural, but again, somewhat surprising turn. It does seem appropriate, too, because if you look at those original Prague rock bands from the 70s, they all turned into pop bands 10 years later. You know, Genesis puts out invisible touch. You know, yes, puts out owner of a lonely heart. You know, the members of various prog rock groups form Asia. And they have like heat of the moment, you know, like that was such a thing. In the 80s, even like Rush, started using synths, and their music got a lot popular. The thing with the Mars Vota, though, is that, and this is, you know, in line with what you were just saying, there is no invisible touch on this record.

There is no land of confusion. There is no owner of a lonely heart. There is no, like, undeniable pop banger that would justify, I think, going in this direction. And like you, I just find myself not, you. I enjoy this record when it's on, but it doesn't really stick with me afterward. And I do feel like it defeats the purpose of this even being a band, because they've made a record that I feel like could be likened to a lot of other indie bands. It doesn't feel distinctively them in the way that those older records,

even if you hate them, you can't deny that Mars Volta had their own lane that they owned, that was distinct to them. And they just strike me as less distinct now. And I am curious, I know that they're going to be going on the road. I wonder how they're going to integrate this music into their other material, or if they're only going to play this record, and how fans are going to respond to that. Because I feel like my sense is that the core constituency for the Marzboleta

are people that buy, like, instrumental magazines, like bass guitar magazine or drum magazine or something. And it doesn't seem like they're going to have a whole lot to sink their teeth into with this record. The pitchfork review of Francis the Mute has a reference to the kid with the green Ibanez guitar, which I think is like one of the most vivid images I've ever read in a music review. And that's the kind of person you're talking about. The reviews for this album thus far have been positive, but I do wonder if it's coming from people who like might otherwise have thought like Bedlam and Goliath or Nocturnicate or just complete garbage. And it's like, oh, finally. a Mars Volta album I can listen to. I'm interested, like, I do, I need, like, I need to read a review. A review of this album is going to be pointless to me. What I need to do is go on to the guitar world, uh, comment board and just see how people,

like just really fucked up grammar, like 2002 message board style review. That's, we need to do stunt reviews for this again. Yeah, I would really, like, yeah, I don't want to hear a critics have to say. I want to hear, I want to go on the Steve Hoffman forum. and I want to read what those dudes had to say because that is the opinion that matters. Let's get to our next record here and it's called

Asphalt Meadows and it's by a band from Bellingham, Washington named Death Cab for Cutie. This is the 10th, Death Cab album and of course this is a band that's been around since the late 90s. One of the modern giants of emo music, a great benefactor of the OC back in the day

really became one of the big indie bands of the aughts. You know, Ian, I was born in 1977, so I am technically what they call an ex-enial, which is a micro-generation between Generation X and Millennials. I think you are too. It's like 77 to 83. That's me. So sometimes I feel like I'm a young Gen Xer.

Sometimes I feel like I'm an old millennial. When it comes to Death Cab for Cutie, I am definitely a young Gen Xer because I got to say, this band has never struck me as being particularly essential. I always thought that their records were pleasant enough, but to me they always seemed very derivative of much better bands, like, say, Built a Spill, who we talked about last week, REM, Red House Painters, groups like that. And I don't feel like they ever put their own distinctive spin on that sort of sensitive guy rock.

Like, I can say what's distinctively built a spill or distinctively REM. Death Cap for me has never seen particularly, again, like they had their own sort of fingerprint on that. I guess aside from Ben Gibbard's voice, which since I'm being a Gen Xer here, I'm just going to say, I think he's a very wimpy singer to the point where it puts me off. Like there's a sniveling aspect to what he does that I think gives emo a bad name. Like him and like Chris Karaba, you know, those, those aughts, emo dudes. I think when people don't like this kind of music, they picture a guy like that singing in a very kind of wimpy voice on like a bland song. I know you like this band. So like, am I totally off base here?

Tell me like why I'm wrong. Why is this a great band? well i would say that as far as putting a distinctive stamp on it like besides chris kara i mean chris karaba look what you mean me i got you got karaubba on the brain yeah because of me but you know you mentioned like those bands like built spill red house painters modest mouse like these bands are undeniably influential on modest on death cap's first couple albums you know they came out of the pacific northwest from that time but you know to say well they're not really distinctive besides Ben Gibbard's voice and writing style. I mean, that's sort of like, you know,

saying that, you know, twist. I didn't say writing style. I didn't say writing style. I just said voice. Because, and again, maybe if I were a few years younger, I would have been quoting death cab lyrics on my Tumblr in 2003. Like me. It would be more of a live journal. Tumblr was like a 2013. You see, this is the fact that, like, the micro, like the micro of like, so. media. Yeah, absolutely. My first fucking live journal was named after a death cap for cutie song. So, you know... Is he a distinctive lyricist?

I never get that sense from their songs. You know, to cite another touchstone emo-ish artist from that era, bright eyes, I think Knauror Oberst, obviously, is a very gifted lyricist, and I can totally see why people would quote his lyrics, or like Jenny Lewis with Riloh-Kiley.

I think she's a great lyricist. Ben Gibbard, I don't know. It's just sensitive guy, whine. about getting broken up with, right? I mean, or am I wrong? I know I'm being reductive even as I say that, but it does ring true to me that that's what a lot of their songs seem like to me. So I would say with Death Cab,

the distinctiveness of Ben Gibbard comes down to, like, him writing, he writes almost in complete sentences and makes these words that would, you know, in most other circumstances not, quote, unquote, sing well. That's what stands out to me. It's like Ben Gibbard like writes, like he writes prose and then just like kind of sings them in these like melodies where it spills over. Like the lines don't really break down in like distinctive cadences. Like Ben Gibbard, I think you are correct in that every time you hear a death cab for cutie song, even if it's not autobiographical, you just imagine someone who probably looks like Ben Gibbard singing it, which, you know, if you don't like Death Cab, that's like the way.

worst thing you can say about them. But if you do like Death Cab, I think that, you know, has gotten to something that has made it difficult for them to expand upon their sound in recent times where no matter, like, you always think of Ben Gibbard when you hear Death Cab. Like, it's hard for him to like tell a story and like, you know, write about the experience of perhaps someone else. Which he tries to do a bit more on this new album and I think successfully so. But I think this is a sort of band where Steve, I'm just going to like go out on a limb and I don't imagine you ever had a live journal or Friendster or any sort of like micro blogging platform

prior to Twitter. Nope. Wow, I was on a blog spot for like six months and I thought, I was a waste of time and I deleted it. All right. That's it though. I think if nothing else, the dividing line between Death Cap, like between do you like DeathCath?

for Qutty and not might not be you know whether you think they make a distinctive sonic improvement on and i think chris wall's production is very distinctive um and that comes across very clearly if you listen to the albums that he that that happened after chris wall leaves the band but if you think that something like blog spot or live journal is a waste of time i would say that is that is the asset test for whether or not you're going to like death cap for cutty because i mean their early stuff to me was the sound of being in a space where you know what i'm going to write 5,000 words on my feelings to like this audience of 100 people and i'm not saying that like uh you know everyone should go through that but if you do go through that uh i think that um death

cat for cutie is the sort of band that uh allows you to feel what you're feeling and to make it like way more extravagant and way more indulgent than it absolutely should be. Which I totally respect for people that that was their life back then, but I do think Death Cab, they strike me as, you know, there's some bands that just translate from generation and generation because they speak to something specific in a person's life that feels universal.

And then there's bands that I think get big because people were a certain age when they heard it. And it really works for that group of people. but there's not really anything special about that band that's going to help them reach younger people like people that were born 20 years after or came of age 20 years after like this record came out I wonder if Death Cab is like that

like does this band just mean a lot to people because they were a certain age when they came out but for the rest of us it won't really connect I don't know it's an interesting question again I could be totally wrong maybe there's like a lot of young people who love Death Cap I would say that is absolutely

the case because as long as like, you know, there are people who are going to be 18 to 22 years old, those death cab albums are always going to be there. I just feel like there, there's better albums like that, though, that people at age could be listening to. But I don't know. Like Asia. All right. So I feel like someone at the record label must have sensed that I am a death cab agnostic

because I asked for the record and they didn't send it to me. So I've only heard the singles. I think you can make a good, I think you can make a good opinion on it based on the singles. Well, I'm going to yield the floor to you, though. How do you feel about this? I mean, I thought the singles were fine. Yeah. But, you know, I think it's clear.

No one, I think I've established that for the Death Cab fan, they're not going to really care about my opinion about this record. I've already kind of made my feelings about the band clear. So, like, for you, how do you feel about this record? How does it stack up in the Death Cab canon? Well, as I'm prone to do, I'm going to switch gears and talk about Jimmy Eat World first. I'm going to talk about specifically their album Integrity Blues that came out in 2016 where, you know, Jimmy Eat World sort of like Death Cabot had had a period where, you know, you might get a song or two that's good and nothing would rejuvenate that feeling that I had when, you know,

from 2002 to 2004 or whatever. Integrity Blues really fucked up the game for a lot of these like legacy emo type bands. to prove that like if you have enough inspiration, you have a sympathetic producer, you can actually make an album that's not just like good for them, but like actual good stands up to their best work. And so I feel like that has colored my opinion of a lot of records of that ilk. And, you know, for Death Cab, the first couple of singles, they seemed fine. I was excited that they were working with John Congleton instead of Rich Costi, you know,

which is like the difference between, you know, a guy who works with like Angel Olson and Shearwater and a guy who works with like muse and Arctic monkeys, you know, which Death Cab was K-Rock band. But then they released this single Foxglove through the clear cut. I don't know if you'd like that song, but it has been compared to the whole steady because Ben Gibbard does like this talk thing in the verses for, I think, the first time in the band's history. And that kind of really changed my perspective of the album. It got me actually excited to give it a listen. And I will say that compared to the albums that came, like came before, be it, you know, thank you for today or Kinsugi or Codes and Keys, basically the post wallace stuff. This is

easily their best work since narrow stairs in 2008. And also like that we got to like really grade that on a curve. I think this album is good enough to convince me that I might overrate it, which is probably the best you can ask for from a Death Cat for QD album in 2022. I think they're actually trying to do something new on this record. The previous two seem like fan service spinning their wheels. But I would say just in terms of like the similar, like the bands that we've already mentioned. I like it more than the built to spill album. I like it more than the most recent Bright Eyes album, which is maybe the best comparative point. Don't like it as much as Integrity Blues.

Like it more than the Jimmy Eat World album that came after it surviving. Wow. Yeah. We got to map that out for the people. Hopefully someone was listening. They can draw a chart of Ian's late period indie release, I guess, relative comparison there. I'll take your word for it.

I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to dig deep into this album. Maybe I'll have a death. Cab for Cutie come to Jesus moment and I'll just love their catalog. But I've tried for a while and it's never really connected. But I don't know. I thought the singles were pretty good though.

I'll say that. I thought they were good. That hold steady comparison doesn't hold true at all for me. Other people have said that. Not me. Yeah. I mean, come on. Like a lot of people talk and verses it's

not really similar in any other way. I don't think. Let's get to our next record here. And I'm very curious to hear Ian talk about this album. The album is called Spark, and it's by a band from Chicago named Whitney. And you might remember Whitney from 2016. They put out their debut record that year called Light Upon the Lake. And it did pretty well with critics as well as listeners.

And I remember that album coming out and thinking that it was fine. It was a pretty solid record. It was co-produced by Jonathan Rado of Foxygen. That was among his early. productions, I feel like, and he's, of course, since become a very in-demand producer, and I generally like his stuff a lot. So I think I liked what he brought to that record, again, a sort of like retro 70s AM pop type sheen that radio, I think, is really associate with at this point. After Let Upon the Lake, Whitney apparently put out a few more albums, which I have no memory of at all. Like,

and that's not a dis. I just don't, I thought this. was their first album in six years. And then I looked it up and I saw, oh, wait, they have these other albums. One was a covers record, I think, called Candid. And they put out a studio record in 2019 and I cannot remember the name of it. Forever turned around. I'm looking at it right now. Forever turned around.

And now they put out this new record. And before I talk about it, I want to turn this around to you, Ian, because you have a running internet bit where you make fun of this band. and you seem to have a real animus towards Whitney and I don't really understand why because to me the greatest offense committed by Whitney is that they're very slight

you know it seems almost like aggressively minor sometimes and for me I just have a hard time feeling one way or the other about it which is not a compliment for any band but like but for you to have so much dislike for them

I am a little confounded by that. So talk about that. What is it about this band that gets stuck in your craw? So I think this is maybe more associated with my experience in the music writing realm compared to yours. Because, you know, you've established a lane where you are kind of in charge of you. But more often than not, I find myself in situations where I'm like working, I'm a worker amongst workers and a staff. and the opinions of other people tend to influence what I can and cannot write about.

And I know we try to advocate not judging bands based on their fans or the writers who love them, even though it's like very fun and it saves time. I just remember Whitney in 2016. I remember I heard the first song, like Golden Days or something like that, and I'm thinking to myself,

okay, this is fine, whatever. Like, Post-Smith Westerns band, cool, like people, Chicago seemed to love them. And then all of a sudden they became this like hype thing, especially amongst the sort of people that would like overtly say that they were, you know, the bands like Joyce Manor and Pupp were beneath them. I always just found that like so frustrating and confusing that it was like those were the people that I found were like hyping Whitney up. It's like, rock is dead. But this band right here, this band that I think, I think you've compared them to like

America or something along those lines. Well, yeah, I mean, they are, I think, going after a yacht rock type vibe, a very 70 soft rock type of thing. I think, especially on that first record elements of America, I think you could also bring in, you know, a little bit of Steely Dan, Deabee Brothers, groups of that ilk. And I think the problem with Whitney is that when you emulate that kind of music, you have to, one, be really great as musicians and singers, and two, you have to have really great songs.

Otherwise, it ends up sounding like this sort of semi-ironic indie dude type pop that it just doesn't work that well. I think that kind of music is actually really hard to emulate for that reason, because like, yacht rock works because, like, Michael McDonald, he's a great singer and he's a great musician and he writes really good songs. And if it's not great, it just seems, like I said, kind of slight, you know? And I think that to me is like what has always undermined Whitney for me. But for you, you're really reacting against the hype that they got early on.

Well, that and as well, like, I mean, you mentioned Ben Gibbard being emblematic of this kind of whiny emo guy thing. And the falsetto I hear on Whitney to me is like even more whiny, but also. also has this like, I appreciate that like Ben Gibber, the voice matches the lyrics. Whereas, like, with Whitney, it's like kind of this like chill bro, like kind of quasi. By the way, you called America a yacht rock band. Their most famous songs about them riding a horse. So those, which one is it that people need to know? Well, they became more yacht rocky later on.

Like what they were doing. Like, you know, that song, Magic? You can do magic. That's them? That's America, yeah. America, Asia. We got to get Kansas next. Yeah, with Whitney, it just seemed to be symbolic of this mid-aughts trend of people getting really into, like, not even just yet rock, but this super insipid kind of 70s A.M. gold, which I get there's, like, a way to make that subversive.

I've lived through all sort of variants of Steely Dan fanhood. But to me, this just seemed to be, I mean, if they had songs like China Grove, like if they had that kind of Doobie Brothers song going on or listen to the music to me, it's just so profoundly inessential, but like presenting itself in this way where it's like, I can't even describe like why, like how is it that this sort of music is making its way into, you know, like how is this defining indie rock as opposed to, you know,

some of the stuff I like. And again, it is so personal, so beef. Yeah, I feel like you're overstating how hype they were in 2016. I don't think Whitney was ever held up as like the greatest thing in indie rock, even in 2016. I think that there definitely were people

that supported what they were doing, but I don't know. I think you're exaggerating that a little bit. I will say, though, I do agree, but the big weakness with Whitney for me is the vocals. Like the falsetto, it just feels like an affectation. It doesn't really feel like, again, if you have Michael McDonald, his voice is very affected, but it works.

It sounds organic even though it's not. With Whitney, I feel like it feels like a put-on to me. And it's a little disappointing because I think the thing about light up on the lake, I do think that that record has some charms to it. But I don't feel like they've really evolved from that. Like on this new record, they're integrating more synth pop references or signifiers. And it just doesn't really work.

Again, I don't feel like they've grown really as songwriters or as musicians. Like, I'm not seeing like a real sort of evolution going on. And to just like insert some synthesizers, I don't think that that counts as an evolution. In a way, it feels like maybe we're running out of ideas. And this is, you know, we'll put synths in here because that's something indie bands do on their third record. But it doesn't really feel like a real sort of progression for them.

I think it's a progression in a way because when I saw that the album title was capitalized and all the song titles are capitalized and when you see their press photos, there's like these tie-dye and like dyed blonde hair look. And for whatever really, reason the cover of this album looks like a red hot chili pepper single i would like if i were to just like judge this band based on their press photo now and the song titles and the album cover i would

think that they were like this post turnstile band which um i would love to hear a whitney album influenced by turnstile but yeah even more so than like the previous stuff which you know i admit um a lot of this is completely petty but i listened to this new song and i was like actually mad about it because again, if there's anything I find more annoying than you know, kind of this indie rock take on AM gold.

It's like the third album pivot to synthesizers thing and these songs just sound like I hate saying it sounds algorithmic. It sounds like they're trying to go out on a playlist because that's not really like deep criticism. But this reminds me of

and maybe we need to do a deep dive on this kind of music on later indie cast, but there is this kind of post-Macdemarco world of bands like airwaves and daywave and day glow and bands of that nature that get like six million plays on Spotify for songs that I've never heard of. And this is where Whitney is right now. Maybe that's where it always belonged. I mean, I just like to think about this band because six years in my estimation is like the longest period of time in the indie rock discourse. Like 2016 sounds fucking ancient now. And a part of me wonders, like now that they're far away enough from their hype, maybe I could go back and enjoy them.

I do plan on having that experience with Mac DeMarco. But I wonder like what people, I don't know, like the 22 year olds now, do they see them as this like, I don't know, relic of their times, the way people saw like purity ring in 2018 or what have you? Like, is that where Whitney is now? Yeah, I don't know. I'll be curious to see how this record is received. I mean, you mentioned Mac DeMarco, and I think if you compare Whitney to Mac DeMarco,

I think no matter how you feel about Mac DeMarco, he has a much deeper catalog. I think his records, his best records, I think, show how weak some of these Whitney records are. Because it is going after a similar vibe, but I think DeMarco does do that. Type of thing about as well as anything.

anybody from that era. So definitely dig into MacDen to... We need to talk about MacDemarco sometime on this show. We absolutely need to have a MacDamarko episode. I think he's a fascinating character, and I do think that he has some legitimately great records, and maybe we'll set Whitney aside for now. We're running short on time here, so I do want to make sure that we get to our last record here that we want to talk about, because this might be the one that we're most passionate about.

It's a band from Los Angeles named Young Jesus. And this is a band that's been around for about a decade. They put out their first record in 2012. And I can honestly say that in modern indie, this is a rare band that really has not made the same album twice. You know, they started out in more of like an emo realm. Then they went into like jam band territory. And then there were like elements of like improvisational jazz.

Just all over the moment. map. And now they have this new record that's out today. It's called Shepardhead. It's the sixth Young Jesus record. And, you know, earlier I was likening the Mars Vota record to like an 80s Genesis record. I feel like in a way this is Young Jesus's like early Peter Gabriel solo record type record. You know, after a couple of albums where Young Jesus really kind of embraced this like widescreen epic type sound, you know, literally having songs that are like 20 minutes long on a record. This one is much more stripped down. I believe it's essentially a solo act now, right, John Rossiter. I think it's just him in this band. It's him and a lot of collaborators.

Also, we just have to point out, John Rosseter, not to confuse him with John Ross, who is in Wild Pink, the other like Uber Indie cast act. Yes, exactly. We're really into John Ars here. on Indycast. But yeah, it made me think of, like, those early Peter Gabriel records. It's an art pop album. Again, pretty stripped back. Some of the songs are almost like glacial-y pace, like very kind of slow, but they kind of ooze out of the record in a very, I think, kind of seductive kind of way.

And I don't know, this is the record. I find it very spellbinding. I don't think it's quite up to the level of the previous two. Young Jesus Records, but you know, I always think of this band when I hear people complain that modern indie rock is too safe and predictable and why can't

there be bands that are experimental like there used to be? Well, there are still those kind of bands and young Jesus is one of them and look, we talked a lot about this band. They're one of those bands that we I mean, you've written, I looked at Pitchfork, you've only reviewed their albums.

Like, no one else in Pitchfork I think has written about this band. And I've written about this band. I've interviewed John Rossiter in the past. And I just feel like if you are looking for adventurous indie rock, this should be a band on your radar. Because again, even while I don't think this record is quite as good as the very best Young Jesus Records, and again, I'm talking about 2018s, the whole thing is just there, which is, I think, we would probably both agree that's their best record. 2020s Welcome to Conceptual Beach, though, that's another really strong record.

This is a band, they're not making the same about. album twice ever. Very interesting band, very adventurous. And even when they don't totally hit the mark, I think it's definitely music worth listening to. Yeah, I think this might, like, I can't think of any other band that's been accurately described as like emo revival and like jazz improvisation, but like also in between those two phases, they had more of like a talky sort of Midwestern Barfly sort of sound, which is just like the indie cast canon all in one band. And, you know, like you mentioned, I'm like only person who's reviewed this band at Pitchfork. I think someone else is doing this new one.

You know, and I think that kind of speaks to the point of, like, me just always wishing that this band could, you know, be privy to the audience. I think they deserve. I think they touch on so many potential fan bases. And I don't know, it's like the sort of existential thing I feel with a lot of quote-unquote indie cast bands where it's like, you know what, if someone like more influential or young or hip or cool got into this band than me, maybe they'd be. on their way.

But with this new album, it's first off, 28 minutes long, like Steve said, some of their songs on past. I've been like literally 20 minutes long. And I do think that this is a very interesting transitional record in that I liked the three they did before that. I think the self-titled might be the one I go back to more, most frequently. And as much as I liked those, I felt like they were kind of. not a rut, but like I kind of knew what to expect from them.

It's like you would get a couple of like really beautiful like four minute songs and a couple of jazier ones and then like a 20 minute epic. And I feel like I don't know if that had run its course, but I started to like know what to expect. And I think that this was a necessary pullback. I think that there are the talk talk influence like later period talk talk is big there. also, you know, like maybe solo Peter Gabriel. And if this were like a bigger band,

I think that this album would be seen as like a real more daring, a daring pivot. But, you know, as like a kind of cult band, it probably won't get the attention it deserves. That's unfortunate. But like I feel like with John, I kind of have to separate like my hopes for this band as far as like public view from like the artistry of John Rosser.

And I think this guy's going to make music regardless of whether or not anyone hears it. So he's always going to follow his muse. And hopefully they'll continue to have like the platform of Saddle Creek. I know that Saddle Creek when they signed this band back in 2017 or so, it was based completely off the live show. I've talked to people there and they're like, yeah, we know there's like not a lot of commercial potential here. But you know what? Like we were just so blown away by this band we had to sign them.

So again with this one, I hope that maybe by some fluke, more people find out about young Jesus and go back through their catalog because it's just completely fast. It's just a fascinating band. But, you know, maybe perhaps that they're best suited for cult status rather than, I don't know, being a sort of band that gets that like Whitney said indie playlist type spins. Yeah, you know, I'm with you. This is, you know, one of the many bands that I wish had a bigger audience, although I do feel sometimes that when you frame a band like that it's not the most persuasive thing to get your listeners in. Because there's always, if you lead with the fact that, oh, this band doesn't have enough

listeners, it's like, well, why don't they have enough listeners? You know, like, it's not a very enticing type invitation. And I also feel like, you know, it's not young Jesus's fault. I think in a way, they make records that aren't for everybody. And I like that fact about them. I like the fact that I don't think when John Rosser puts a. record together, he's thinking about streaming platforms and what playlist I can get on. And that there's anything wrong with that because everyone wants their music to be heard.

But he is, I think, pursuing a muse that is a little more idiosyncratic than the typical indie band, a little more, I think, insular in a good way. And I hope that there's more bands like this that are just following their own path and are maybe playing the long game. I do think that young Jesus has already built up a discography where it will be there for people to rediscover when they want to look back at this era

and look for bands that were unheralded. And we always see that throughout time, that there's always these bands that find an audience later on because future audiences are always kind of looking to the past for those kinds of bands. So, I

think that the indie podcast hosts of the future 20 years from now in 2042, this will be a band, I think, that they will be talking about because these records are cool, they're interesting, and they're ripe for rediscovery. 2020 has its Mac to Marco deep dive. 2042 will have the Young Jesus Deep Dive. I got to call that progress. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner,

where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So I want to talk about, like, it's kind of a news story if you've been following email. Twitter, just like music Twitter in general, you've probably heard about the issues facing top shelf records. One of the most important labels of the past 20 years, they put out the World's Beautiful Place, first album, Crash of Rhinos, just massively influential with the emo revival, but many other interesting bands that came after that aren't really emo at all.

But nonetheless, their merch company went bankrupt and shut down. abruptly in late August. And what happened is that the entire label inventory of records was currently being held by the warehouse's landlord and awesome merch owes them like tens of thousand dollars for, you know, for including money that customers paid for orders. So what top shelf records did is they started like kind of a Kickstarter or a fundraiser on their website. I would recommend going to that, you know, to help a really great label out who got just, for lack of a better term, really fucked over. But the good news is that Top Shelf is still continuing to put out like really interesting

and they're really interesting and forward-thinking records. There's a knife play record that I'm going to talk about in a future episode. But this Tuesday they put out a split from two bands called They Are Gutting a Body of Water and a Country Western. they are gutting a body of water as a new project from a guy who used to be in the band Jousko, who I've talked about on here. And these two bands are really taking an approach to shoegays that is completely out of left field compared to the standard issue, shoe gaze, dream pop, like, hey, we're just ripping off slow dive sort of thing.

If you like Spirit of the Beehive, I think these bands are kind of in a similar realm. And I know they're gutting a body of water has a full length coming out pretty soon in October. I'm really looking forward to as well. So, you know, just in general, helping out Top Shelf as they face a really shitty situation, but particularly this gutting a body of water in a country Western split. Worthy cause, yes, help out Top Shelf Records. They put out a lot of good music over the years. I want to talk about a musician from Canada named Daniel Romano.

If you've heard of this guy, you probably will first think about how prolific he is. And we have artists that, you know, King Gizzard is out there. You got Thai Seagulls out there. Daniel Romano can go toe to toe with like the most prolific musicians in Indy Rock. And in 2020 alone during the height of the pandemic, he put out eight records in one year. Just an incredible amount of output. And not only is he putting on a lot of records, but he puts out a lot of different kinds of records. He's put out folk records.

He's put out classic country records. He's put out hardcore punk records. He put out a record where he covered Bob Dylan's 1983 album Infidels in the style of Dylan's performance with the plugs on David Letterman in 1984. And if you understand that arcane reference, then you might be a fan of Daniel Romano. I have to say that not everything that he has done

is connected with me. I do think that oftentimes when you have very prolific artists, it does dilute inevitably the quality of each individual release, and I say this as a devoted guided by voices fan. But his latest release, I find very intriguing. It's a record called La Luna, and it has two tracks. I think one track is about 15 minutes, the other is 17 minutes, and they're basically both like mini-sweets.

And the style on this record is this orchestral, Prague rock type thing, I would liken it to the moody blues, early queen, records like that. Again, very far removed from music that I associate with Daniel Romano, although I know that he has a side project where he does ambient music, and there's like some of elements of that on this record. Again, even on this record, I don't know if everything works, but I respect what Romano is doing. I think he's a true original.

I know he's also a visual. artist. I think he writes as well. I mean, this guy is just crapping out art from the moment he gets out of bed. And I respect that, man. I think that's the thing with these types of artists who just put out a lot of work, that this is part of their process, that there's some people that they will focus on one thing for three years, and then they put it out. And there's other people that just have to keep creating, because that's where their energy is. And sometimes you're have brilliance and sometimes you're going to have lesser stuff. I think there's elements of that both on this record, but overall, I quite like it. And I think that he's a person where

if you're looking for a big body of work to dive into from a modern indie artist, check out Daniel Romano. There's a lot, a lot of music waiting there for you. Has he released an Asia-esque album yet? You know, this record is kind of Asia-esque at times. So he maybe, moving in that direction. Hopefully there will be like a Roger Dean cover on his next record of like a serpent rising out of the ocean or something. That'd be amazing. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.

Thanks.