Indiecast - New Music From Alex G And Deftones, Plus: The 10th Anniversary Of Tame Impala's 'Currents'

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

Steven and Ian open with a conversation about Steven's upcoming trip to London and whether he'll actually get to see Oasis (1:27). Then they talk about the Fantasy Album Draft and how Clipse did slightly worse than Steven hoped, perhaps because there's "dad rap" fatigue with critics (6:07). They also talk about the new album by Alex G, and how he was able to make his most accessible music without losing his essential Alex G-ness (1950).Then they transition to the new Deftones single, and how the long-running metal act keeps growing in public estimation (34:43). Finally, they conclude with a discussion of Tame Impala's Currents, which turns 10 this week (46:13).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks up the up emo band Sport and Steven reps for psych-rock veteran Andy Boay (58:29).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 248 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about Alex G. Clips, a new Deftone single and the 10th anniversary of Tame and Paula's Currents. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He'll be holding down the USA when I'm off in London. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? I'm anticipating when we're, record like two weeks from now you'll have all these completely different ideas about like constitutes porch music like no that's out we're doing flat music now oh yeah do do england people england people english people do they have patios over there or what do they call the patio over there yeah i i haven't thought of that till now but i think i you know like we stayed in the flat and i don't know

if we did like much porch or uh you know patio sitting i imagine They imagine they exist, but hopefully they have like a really cool new name. So we sound more urban and international when we kick off August. I imagine, you know, you got to have some place to have your spot of tea when you're listening to Star Sailor. Oh, yeah. There's got to be a place for that. Well, I just call that my office, you know. So, okay, I'm going to make a confession here.

I've never been to Europe. I've only been to Mexico, Canada, and Jamaica. That is the extent of my world traveling so far in my life. And I have to admit, I'm a little anxious about the time difference. You know, it's six hours difference from where I'm at. So the whole jet leg thing, I don't know. I feel like an old man. I'm very concerned that I'm just going to be exhausted the entire time.

I'm there. Should I be worried about this or am I just being a, you know, a wimp about this? I was a bit worried about that too. And I didn't know if it was going to be like worse going there or coming back. I feel like I just kind of powered through it. I'm not sure how. I just maybe have like really weird sleep schedules. I do remember that like the day I got back from the UK, I did see Foxing that night.

So it didn't affect me as much as I had anticipated. Was it worse going back? I feel like it's going to be worse coming back than going there. Well, I mean, for me, I had a couple days off before I went back to work, thank God. So if there was an adjustment to be made, I was able to do it. But, you know, like once you get there and the energy starts going, you'll probably need to take like a midday nap or what have you. But I don't know. Like I would visualize success.

Well, and I think I've talked about this on the pod that I think I'm going to see Oasis when I'm in town. They're playing on the 25th and the 26th at Wembley when I'm there. I'm there all next week. So my friend assures me the other day we were texting. He's like, we're going to get in. My contact is the father of my goddaughter. You know, there's, I don't know, it's not blood relation, but there's some spiritual relation here.

So he makes it, he's assuring me that we're going to be able to get in. I feel like these shows are going to be hotly contested. I mean, if the American shows are hotly, but they're playing so many shows in England. so maybe I'll be able to sneak in. Anyway, I'm trying not to count my Britpop chickens before they're hatched. It may not happen, but if it does, I'll obviously give a scene report when we get back. We're going to bank an episode for next week.

So next week's episode is going to be canned. If we miss any action, that'll be the reason why. But we've got to do that. We've got to record before I leave. I'm just hoping that if you don't get to see Oasis, maybe Star Sailor, playing in town you get to see that instead that would be pretty sick yeah or uh you know embrace oh yeah check them out and maybe Travis is playing like a smaller arena in the same area and dubs elbow south all the all the all the all the hits jj 72 you know cast is opening

for oasis oh yeah and richard ashcroft i i'm excited to see ashcroft hell yeah because i assume he'll be doing mostly verb songs uh you know i want to hear bittersweet Symphony in Wimbley Stadium. That'd be pretty amazing. But we'll see what happens. Knock on wood. Knock on British wood. Whatever. Hopefully that'll happen. Let's do a fantasy album draft update here. A lot of my players have already been on the field. I have wet leg, who currently has an 85. We're going to be talking about Alex G here in a minute. He currently has an 87, so he's doing great. And then we have clips. My number one pick, they put out their latest record, let them sort it out last week.

We didn't have a Metacritic score then, but we do now. And it has an 82. So certainly not a disaster. But I have to admit I'm a little disappointed by this score. I think you said that I might have had a shot at a 90 with this album. 82 for number one pick, a little underwhelming. I'm concerned because our fantasy drafts are often a game of inches and one or two points lost here or there can really make a difference. I was hoping that this would pull a mid to high 80.

I mean, if it had done the 90 plus Alex G, if you can hold it 87, I'd be in really good shape. With 82, seems a little less certain. But it's funny, I wanted to talk about this with you. I know you have opinions about this more so than I do. So I'm just going to let you go off here in a minute. But I feel like we pretty much clocked the reaction to this album ahead of time when we were talking about it. And in the draft, when we were picking the albums, that I think the majority of the reviews are coming from what we like to call the 45-year-old music writer demographic. And not that they're literally 45, but they're in that middle-aged music writer zone.

the type of person that just loves like real rap music. I'm putting real in quotes. Yeah. And again, I'm not making fun of these people because we, these are our people. So we're allowed to make jokes. They are part of our demographic group.

But those people are just going to be in the tank for push-a-tie records, for run the Jules records. You know, Kendrick Lamar, obviously, they're going to be in the tank for. And it just seemed like those people are going to love the clips. But then there is like a sizable minority, and I know you're in this camp, and I want to hear you articulate this. And you see it in the reviews.

Like there's a lot of 90, 88, 80, but then there's some lower scores that are dragging it down in the like the 60 or even like 50 range that are basically just calling this like a stodgy, boring rap record. And I don't know. I feel like you are in the ladder camp, so I want to hear you articulate it. And just talk about, I guess, the tension that exists here between this being total critic bait music, but at the same time, maybe we're at the point where it's less critic bait than it used to be.

Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, I don't like this record. But at the same time, I am absolutely the clips demographic. You know, I am 45. I came very close to paying an extra 30 bucks to pay EA to play EA college football three days early. I still use the wire memes at work. And I wish it was 2005 again. You know, I wish we were blogging like 2005 again when like the blogs by common section were like people making up fake camera on lyrics.

I should love this clip's album. And I found myself like kind of repulsed by it. Wow. Yeah, not just because like the first thing you hear is this like, like, the John Legend hook and, you know, it's all like, it's usually like the type of song that Cliffs put at the end of the album. But yeah, it's, it's funny how functionally this is like a super chunk or Yolotango album, but it also has to be reviewed by people who follow rap. And so, you know, we got it for Cheap Volume 2 and Hell Hath No Fury are like some of my favorite rap albums of

all time. And I think what made those work is that clips were, there was something for the, there was resistance there. There was tension, you know, whether it was Jive records not putting out their albums, like them rapping over beats, you know, from like the game or what have you that. It's like, yeah, we rap better than the people who made these beats. And now it's like, do I really care what they have to say about like Travis Scott? Like it's what it's sort of like watching like a Marvel movie to me in the same way that like run the jewels are where the only sort of villain or resistance exists off screen. and I guess it's like, yo, like this new rap where people don't care about lyrics.

Like, I do think that the Venn diagram of clips listeners, but like between clips listeners and like Hold Steady or Jason Isbell listeners is more, there's more overlap than there is between like clips and like Osama Sun or something like that. So, yeah, I just found it kind of like boring. Like even if they are like rapping about like luxury brands and like cocaine, it's kind of dad rock. You know, it's like, sort of thing where if you, our pal Larry Fitzmaurice put it like absolutely perfect when he said

it's for people who like heard, who heard watch the throne and have been in like a coma since. So, um, yeah. So wait, so this, just to go back. So they, they diss Travis Scott on this record. Apparently. Apparently. Uh, yeah, I mean, like, they, they, they were also like playing that up during the press run, you know, I think they, you know, dis Kanye as well. I think of, anyone comes off looking good on this album. It's Chad Hugo. Like also knows the other guy from the Neptunes, but maybe secretly the guy who does like all the great beats because,

you know, Farel does the production here. And it just sounds like, it just sounds like, oh, it's Forell the fashion designer, not like the guy doing super weird stuff on, you know,

like Hal Hathno Fure, which has some of the most insane beats you will ever hear on a hip hop record. It's just, it's comfort food and to me like trying to play this up as like some sort of like milestone and rap just really kind of tells on yourself because it shows that you probably haven't been listening to modern rap in good faith so well you know Anthony Fantano the music the internet's busiest music nerd who does review a lot of rap records he gave this album a 10 and it's funny because I saw a a graphic showing the other albums that he's given to tend to.

And they're all like the sort of predictable landmark rap records from like the last 15 years. Like to Pimp a Butterfly's on there. Records like that. There's probably a couple of Kendrick records on there. And then there's this album. Yeah. Can I play devil's advocate here? Sure.

And I'm not saying I totally believe this, but I honestly don't really have an opinion on this record and I just want to make this segment a little bit more entertaining. Let's say all the things you said are true. This is a dad rap record. This is for people who don't like modern rap music. It has maybe a conservative point of view when it comes to current rap trends. Is that necessarily automatically a bad thing?

Like, would it have been worse if they had brought on a bunch of like of these new sort of internet-brained rap groups that like pitchfork loves and like gives rave reviews to? If they had tried to do that S-Clips, wouldn't have that been worse rather than just being like, we're going to make a record like it's still the 2000s? And we are going to have this posture against this more, I would say, niche form of rap music. And again, I don't know. I'm not an expert. I am observing this as a very casual person just looking at it. But as someone who hasn't really engaged with rap music or cared much about it, in the last, you know, five, ten years. It definitely feels like that genre has gotten much more sort of insular than it was in the 2000-2010s.

Is it such a bad thing to have an alternative to that, someone pushing back against that? Is that automatically a bad thing? Not necessarily, because I think about, and they come from a completely different angle. The Tribe Call Quest album that came out in 2016, where I think that was after a fight. dog passed away and it had that essence of tribe call quest um but i think they up and again i think maybe it's more just like tribe call quest as like kind of a more versatile uh viewpoint you know it's like if you're listening to like a clips record you're gonna expect them to like make you know reference like you know a lot of like cocaine punch lines but they just come off as like kind of

they don't have the same bite like i listen to like 15 i'll listen to like 15 rock mars Osiano albums that are sort of doing the same thing about like just making punchlines, rapping about cocaine, rapping about luxury brands. And it still hits to me because it is still, there's still like a hunger there rather than like a fan service. Like I think I, you know, I think it bothers me because I, I like, it sounds so similar in some ways to their previous stuff. But it just lacks that, it just lacks that tension.

It just lacks that. Like we are doing something that goes against the grain. And, you know, like, if you enjoy it, sure, like, I don't think it's happening in bad faith. But, you know, it's in the same way that you might enjoy, like, a Latter-day National record. And, you know, like, we've argued about this where I'm a little bit weary of, you know, Matt Berninger playing, like, the character, Matt Berninger. But, like, if you enjoy it, cool. But, like, I will never get tired of we got it for cheap volume, too. I mean, I would push back against the National being the signifier of that just because of the whole Taylor Swift connection in the 2020s.

Like, I feel like they actually have moved into the modern era more than, say, other bands of that ilk. I mean, this isn't exactly like the National, but just thinking of like an old respected rock band, like a Yola Tango or like a Super Chunk. Like you said those two. Like, that would be more of the, I'm the indie indie rock fan that doesn't listen to any new. music and I'm suspicious of any new band coming along and okay here comes yola tango or super trump to show them how it's done you know I don't really think the national is that band I mean I have other issues with their like I actually wish the national sounded more like their odds era records I I would want them to do more fan service in that regard make a record

that sounded like alligator or even boxer rather than the more mid-tempo stuff that they've been doing lately. But yeah, there is that sort of attitude. I think we associated more with rock music than rap music. But, you know, rap has been around for like 50 years now. I mean, so there probably, I mean, there needs to be more of a classic rock element probably in that music than there has been. It is kind of amazing, like, how long that genre has gone on without venerating artists that have stuck around for a long time. I guess you could say M&M or JZ are like the Rolling Stones at this point. Like they could do a stadium tour tomorrow if they wanted to, together or separately. But for the most part, I feel like in that genre, like artists tend to have a shelf life and then they get pushed aside.

And there is a relentless focus on novelty and pushing forward. And that's one of the great things about that genre. but again to play devil's advocate you know what the 45 year olds eat here I mean they miss they miss the real rap music Ian you know let them have their clips record I don't think that this record um

and maybe I'm wrong because you got Fantano giving it a 10 and he's a big music critic but I do feel like this record would have been even better reviewed five years ago yeah I think so I think so as well I think even like pitchfork didn't like it. They gave it like a 6.5.

I think they would have given it an 8 five years ago. I do agree with that. I think that makes sense. But yeah, I think it's, I do think it's got kind of more like is of a push-a-tee slot, like Daytona era. And by the way, you're saying that like there's no classic rock respect it. I want you to look at the Sea World in San Diego line up for summer concerts. Last weekend they had Bow Wow and Soldier Boy. they also have like another one coming up with the i think it's like paul wall and bubba sparks

and p.D pablo so there is like a festival circuit going on but you got to go to sea world to find it yeah but you know what i mean i'm talking about like the equivalent of like a u2 or a foo fighters like a band that hasn't had a hit in a long time but like is just you know blank checked into stadiums for the rest of their career like they don't really need to have me like snoop and drink might be like that. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Like that Super Bowl halftime show for like four or five years ago, like those are like the classic rock rappers at this point. Because like, yeah, Dre Snoop and Eminem were all in there. I guess Kendrick was in there too. 50 cent was there too. 50 cent was in there. Does he still like tour or is he just like doing like crypto and TV shows? Yeah, like vitamin water.

It's pretty funny. Like one of the, this one like I think it's like hip hop quotables like Twitter account, which you know I always love because they bring up like old dip. set stuff but uh they brought up this like 50 cent album called war angel lp that i gave a 1.8 i don't remember that at all but wow yeah that sounds like an amazing record though i got just a crappy 50 cent album that's yeah yeah the cover is like are you sure this wasn't like an actual album not a mixtape because yeah i did review some latter day 50 cent albums at pitch for like it's so wild thing like 15 years ago i was like reviewing mostly rap it is fun to be at the

in your career where you've completely forgotten about reviews you've written. And someone will, like, I've had this experience with someone, like, I'll read something. And it's usually the things I wrote for pitchfork, because I don't remember any of that stuff. But they'll cite a pitchfork review. And I'm like, oh, that kind of sounds like something I would have said. And I'll look it up. And I'm like, oh, I did say that. I don't remember that at all.

Maybe that 50% is like, you know, 12% better than camp. So I'll have to go check that out of again. I'll see. You're lucky that 50 Cent didn't run into you at the gym. That would have been a whole other story other than much different than Donald Glover. Let's move on to our next segment here. We're going to talk about the big new album out today in the indie world, and that is Headlights by Alex G. This is the 10th Alex G record.

It's his first since 2022's God Save the Animals. You and I both wrote about this record, Ian. you reviewed it for Pitchfork and it got the best new music so very well reviewed over there and I wrote about it for Uprocks I actually did a column where I talked about it

with Eli Ennis a really good critic he has a newsletter called Chasing Sundays that I highly recommend subscribing to I wanted to talk with him about the album

because Eli comes from a different generation than you or I. He's a little bit younger than us. And he's an Alex G super fan. And he really is part of that generation for whom Alex G is a foundational artist. And it's a little bit different than maybe you or I coming from. I know, I started listening to Alex G 10 years ago.

And I had him pegged as like, oh, this is a good songwriter. But I don't know if he's going to be as big as like Car Seed Headrest or J-Sum or like other artists from the band camp world. And of course, I ended up being completely wrong about that. He is absolutely the biggest artist that come from that scene and one of the bigger influential artists of the 2010s coming into the 2020s. When I was talking about this with Eli, I made the comparison to the early 90s albums that REM made after they left the indie world and signed with Warner Brothers Records

and how they were able to thread this very tricky needle where they started making the broadest and most accessible and pop-y-y-est music of their career. And I'm talking about albums like Out of Time and Automatic for the People. And even Green before that, that was their major label debut that came out in 88. And yet they were also able to retain the character

that they had as an indie act. They were still identifiably, REM, they didn't completely change the way that some bands did as they entered the major label world in the 90s. And I think this Alex G record has a very similar quality to it. I mean, I even think sonically sometimes it resembles those REM records. And I guess it's because a lot of mandolins on some of the songs and accordion, the very fokey instrumentation. But again, I think what Alex G's able to do on this record is that this is that this is a very straight, I think, for the most part, singer, songwriter record. If you saw Alex

G played miracles on Stephen Colbert a few years ago, and you know, you saw like, oh, he's like this good looking guy singing in a song about fatherhood and like his partner's on stage and if that was your exposure to him and that was your idea of Alex G, that does kind of conform to this record for the most part, especially coming up after the previous two records, which were pretty experimental and sometimes quite strange. You know, having like hyperpop explosions and like even like SoundCloud rap type experiments going on. This album for the most part is just sensitive indie folk songs, really well written, really melodic. And yet it doesn't feel like a sellout move.

You know, it's able to have the major label feel without losing what was appealing about him. And I think it is interesting to note that when you look at Alex G's career, you know, the most popular songs of his are still like the early Alex G. Like that 2012 album trick has some of his biggest songs. And that's also like a pretty straight album. Like that sounds the most like 90s and Otts era indie rock, like the music that he was influenced by. And then he actually gets weirder at the end of the 2010s.

But now this is. is him kind of going back to like it kind of sounds like a little like Elliot Smith kind of has some of these again more kind of folk rock country elements going on. There's a song on the record that sounds a lot like Wilco like the last track I think it's pretty Wilco-esque. So I don't know I to me it's it's a triumph and Eli liked it too. I was curious to hear what he had to say. I didn't know if he would think it was a little too safe but it feels like he was able to pull off something really difficult I think with this album. Yeah. And And by the way, you're welcome for that review.

I think that's like the first time in, uh... That's right. Yeah, I think that's the first time in our fantasy draft that like I reviewed something that, like I got the review like a week ago. I was like kind of shocked by it because I figured, uh, you know, they got the young gun who's probably been like waiting their entire critical career to have a crack at Alex G and now that they're like, you know, 27 and like have some, uh, footing in the critical world but you know

Larsson was like we got to bring in our David Frick we're bringing in our David Frick off the bench here baby to review the Alex G no time to mess around with this record yeah and given I guess the kind of short turnaround time I did and also the embargo that was happening like there was nothing

published about this album really until Monday and so I went in blind the embargo was the 14th yeah and so I And so I did, because like, you know, I had most of the thing already written. So I wasn't going to, I had to avoid reading, you know, the big pitchfork profile that ran on him or just any of the other reviews, the stereo gum thing. And just kind of like use my own intuition, which is, I don't know, kind of scary at times. Like, what if I get it wrong?

But it seems like most people have come to the same sort of conclusion. I thought it was funny looking after the fact that Anna, who wrote the pitchfork piece named pretty much the same comparative points, which. is to say like the first month the you know moon in antarctica exo by elliott smith r em green she put the flaming lips in there i of course put death cap for cuties plans which to me it's a very similar album to this one and just how you know rich and uh how it sounds and how like kind of somber it is compared to their previous work um but yeah i think that um i think we like are a little bit of disagreement about like louisiana and bounce boy which in the middle is like kind of the classic Alex G, not throwaway songs, but just ones that kind of add this pop of color and

weirdness. And I think he's so good at the kind of straightforward singer-songwriter thing, like June guitar or, you know, afterlife or later on the title track that I wonder, you know, what place the more typical Alex G songs have right now? Like what if he just did? What if he did like a, I would say automatic for the people, but even that album had signed Winder Sleeps tonight, you know, kind of the goofy song. But yeah, it's, I think those. Those songs, Bounce Boy, I think, is more of maybe an oddball song. I think Louisiana, though, doesn't strike me as being too crazy or anything.

And I think even like the experimental songs on this record are like less crazy than like what was on the last two albums. Yeah, there's no, like, brick. You know, there's no, like, brick, like, that was on, like, rocket, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, you know, again, going back to R.E., I'm, like, out of time, still had belong and country feedback and, you know, songs that were a little stranger

than losing my religion or, you know, especially, like, shiny happy people or something. So I think to totally excise that would have made this record feel too slick. I think you need at least a couple songs where Alex G. is messing with his voice, you know, doing like the, like,

voice modulation thing. And if he doesn't do that, it's not going to feel like Alex G. Like, there's this one song on the record where it's a kind of croonery type song where it sounds like he's trying to sound like Kermit the Frog.

Yeah. Like Rufus Wayne. Far and wide is that song. So you've got that song in there. But again, you've got like afterlife, which isn't going to be. be as big of a hit as losing my religion, but it has that

similar quality where you hear it and you're like, oh, this just sounds like an instant classic song. Might be my favorite song of the year. Yeah. Oh, me too. It's so good. And again, it's one of those things where, and I think it's a very hard thing to balance where he could have gone all the way, maybe in the way that you would have wanted

him to, like just to make a big slick record that just has bangor after banger after banger. I think he does strike the good balance between having songs like Afterlife and then having a song like Bounce Boy that balances it out a little bit. It makes it feel like an Alex G record. But the strangeness parts of the album aren't as strange as other Alex G stuff. It's still within, I think, this very warm, inviting package. I do wonder about, and I wrote about this last month, the wild card with Alex G is, just how he doesn't have a cult of personality at all with him as a persona, that he is this person that is either on purpose or this is just how he is. He doesn't have anything interesting

to say in any context. And he's not on social media, you know, and he's not the kind of personality that you would associate with like Amitsky or Phoebe Bridgers, like these other artists that have come from the indie world and become mainstream stars. Like Mitzke, for instance, she's got that Kate Bush quality where you're like, okay, she is an outsider, you know, she's quirky, but she also has like a larger than life quality that is enhanced by these brilliant songs that she writes. And Alex G is just all about the music. And, you know, Eli and I talked about this in our conversation.

that's one of the appealing things about him is that he isn't online all the time and he isn't sort of pandering for attention but I do wonder is that going to be a roadblock or not? I mean it hasn't hurt him at this point at all. I mean, fans are just totally emmeshed in the music but he is very unique I think in that regard.

Yeah, it's fascinating how he's been able to just kind of balance never being too overhyped. It was funny like when we were trying to debate about the score to give this record. I look back on the past couple. I'm like, well, 8, 3, 8, 6, 8, 4. He hasn't gotten an 8.5 yet. Let's just do that to round it out. Because, like, there's never been the straight up masterpiece that may have, you know, cause backlash.

It's funny, the only, on Apple Music, the only essential album is trick. You know, so they, yeah, it's, I mean, I did an album's ranking list in 2022 for Up rocks and I think I had Trick at like number six or something like that but I'm glad that you did something with Eli and look forward to reading that because I said it I said something to the extent of what really matters is like what age you were when you discovered Alex G so there might be you know someone who's in college right now and about to beat go on their big Alex G face they would have been five when Trick came out this guy's been around forever and I imagine for people Eli, like the Tumblr-based people, like nothing's top in DSU, let's say.

You know, it's not just, not because. Well, he talked about Rocket being a big one. Really? And how that was a big album in terms of bringing folk and country elements into this corner of indie rock. That, like, artists that weren't trying to do like an old country thing. Because, like, Alex G, he has a lot of that in his music, but you would never really group him with, like, MJ Lenderman. You know, they're coming from totally different perspectives. And he's really just using that instrumentation without affixing any of the, I don't want to say baggage, but the history of that kind of music.

Yeah, there's not a lot of twang or like, you know, lyrical, like kind of like, lyrical, like, you know, drive-by truckers sort of deal going on. Yeah, and it'd be weird if Alex G covered like Jason Molina. Yeah. Like, he's not in that lineage in the same way that Lenderman is. Yeah. You know, and I think Rocket was an important album in terms of sort of taking that kind of music out of that alt-country context and bringing it into, like, I'm someone who's on a Frank Ocean record, but I'm also going to have banjos on my album. Yeah. And that can make sense now.

Yeah, I actually reviewed that one too. And I think, like, I was actually listening to a mix I made from around that time when Rocket came out. And, yeah, it was like, that was the time. when like indie rock was like shifting to like more slow core but also country and like Alex G was just at the center of it. It's it's amazing how much music he's influenced or has just been made in his image over the past 15 years. Like this is what in a same like in the same way like where maybe pavement is like the band you think of when you hear 90s indie rock like what's the what's like the foundation like what is the first thing that comes to mind?

to describe the sound and style of it. I think Alex G. has that quality in the 2010s. And he's got that thing where he's really popular and influential, but he still doesn't seem famous to me. And I think that's by design. And I don't know if he's ever going to be famous, but he's going to be popular for a long time. And that might be the best position to be in.

Because in a way, that was like REM's deal as well, right? Right, exactly. And, well, you know, and again, just speaks to how foundational he has for a certain generation. Eli compared him to Sonic Youth. He was saying, like, he's like our Sonic Youth in terms of

just representing what indie music is in the present moment. You know, like, if you wanted to know what indie music was in the 80s, you'd look at Sonic Youth. If you look at what it was in the 2010s and maybe even to some degree, now you look at Alex G. So, anyway, very interesting

conversation I had with Eli. I hope you all read it. All right, well, let's get to our next segment here, speaking of foundational acts for modern rock music, there's a new Deftones album that was announced. I guess this was late last week. Yeah, it was right after we recorded, yeah. Right, yeah. So this album, it's called Private Music. It's going to be on August 22nd. There was a single release called My Mind is a mountain. And look, if you like Deftones, you're going to like this song. It's a very Deftones sounding track. I have to go back to my recent riff that I had with the Turnstile record,

just talking about melodic hard rock bands. Deftones, they've definitely seen their stock rise over the last 20-some years. I mean, they've always been a very popular band, but they've now reached, I think, rare cross-genre status where they just seem like a touchstone for all kinds of different music fans, whether you're into metal, whether you're into hip-hop, whether you are in the indie world. I think certainly like younger indie fans

look at Def Tones in a way that maybe older people didn't at the time. But I think it really comes back to how melodic hard rock music is still secretly one of the most popular genres around and we just don't have like a lot of bands that do it

extremely well. And Def Tones are one of those bands and you listen to this new single and it's like oh yeah, heavy riff and the singer's fantastic, Chino Marino. I think his his ability as a singer is really the thing that has elevated this band for a long time, along with just their great, I think, aesthetic impulses, how they are able to be a band that can,

you know, again, play really heavy riffs, but there's also the love of the cure and 80s alternative rock and the sort of melodic sense that comes from that and the sensibility that comes from that and how you can be really aggressive and moody at the same time. But yeah, I listen to the song and I'm like, oh yeah, the riff sounds great. Chino's voice sounds great. I'm sure this is going to be another really solid Deftones record. I don't keep super close tabs on their late period work, but I know that whenever I dip in, I think, oh yeah, this album is really good. And I expect that this album will be the same.

Yeah, in the same way that we really, really missed out on geese being like in the fantasy draft. this one would have been like a slam dunk because it's sort of like the 45 year old 45 year old guy like ohms the last record got like it was like the reviews were the reviews were insane and it's like yeah it's sort of like a combination of like clips but also yolotango it's like this is what metal needs to be um but and but um it's crazy because like in 2020 uh i did a deftone song ranking list for Uprocks, I think it was like a month or so after you interviewed Chino and had him review all the records. I talked about like how wild it was how much they've grown in terms of esteem and influence and popularity despite the fact that, you know, Gore or

Cornayokin before that weren't like huge hits. And they've only gotten bigger in the time since. I mean, I think for a younger audience, they talk about this band the way they might like the cure or smashing pumpkins. You know, maybe. not like to the same degree where they have like hits you could recognize in the supermarket. But if you like heavy music, but also like heavy but like sad and maybe a bit kind of gothy or like, you know, kind of UK influenced. Yeah, this is a band that you're going to be into. And in terms of the guitar riff, I just saw the video the other day. I didn't realize they had made one. But I think Steph Carpenter has like a nine string guitar right now. The thing's insane. I get carpal tunnel just from looking at it.

because like yeah last time he had the eight string guitar and i think he's immediately after oms was me he's like yep going nine string he's going to be playing like a base 12 string sort of like the birds but played at an incredibly slow speed but um yeah i i i go very very deep on this band um uh i reviewed white pony for sunday review which godd yeah 8.4 like come on who the fuck are we kidding um but besides that um Because of that review, I've been a guest on our pal Holiday Kirk's New Metal Agenda podcast twice. I think both times talk about Def Tones. And this is a person who has like a pretty, I guess, controversial view about Def Tones and that a lot of the songs that have made them super influential and popular are like cherry waves or sex tape from Diamond Eyes, like the really shoegaze kind of vaporous songs. And his take was that, yeah, what they really need is,

Madonna's in their ear again telling them to make hits like they were doing on like their Maverick albums like White Pony and around the fur and like I don't totally disagree with that. Like this song sounds awesome. It sounds sort of like a heavier version of Swarve City or Diamond Eyes or Genesis. It's got a huge riff. It's got like some kind of wandering Chino vocal melodies, which I'm not saying that that's no Disricted Cino, I think a lot of what you hear in, I guess, heavy shoegaze or, like, kind of harder indie rock is like, swagless death tones. Like, you know, you're not Chino. You know what I mean?

Like, only he can do that. But I'm a little disappointed. They're back working with Nick Rascuilannis. He's this producer who did, um, he did Coneyoken, he did Gore. And Terry Date did, uh, Omes. He was the guy behind White Pony. Uh, he's got, like, that's your guy, Terry Dayton. Or just get Ross Robinson. So it bangs. I'm sure the album's going to be great. It's got a classic Deftones album cover. It's got a classic Deftones track list. And I'm just wondering, though, if they are pushing themselves in the same way that they were on, you know, the White Pony, even the self-titled or even like Saturday Night Risk, which is a very bizarre album. I mean, I think at this point, when you're a band that is around for 30 years, pushing your

means making a new record. Because why do you need to make a new record? There's no real reason that Deftones need to make a record other than them wanting to make a record or feeling like we have something to say. So I don't know. I think when you get to the stage of your career and you're like, well, you're not as innovative as you were early on. I mean, I don't think there's any artists really that you could say that about.

One example would be low at the end of their career. They were making records that were as innovative as. anything they'd ever done in their career, like right at the end of their times of band. Just to go back to the Halliday Kirk thing. So you're telling me, Holiday Kirk wants them to sound more like a new metal band again. Is that what you're saying? Like, I'm shocked by this thing. And he would have that.

He likes back to school. Like, I have so much, like, that's the, um, the rap rock remake of Pink Maggot that they did for White Pony when Maverick didn't think the album was selling enough. And so Chino wrote that in like a day. and they made a terrible video. And now when you go on Apple Music, I'm not sure if this is true on Spotify, but when you go on Apple Music,

back to school is always the first song on White Pony. It's not Fight of Sarah. And to me, that is just such sacrilege. Yeah, he wants them to, because I listen back to, you know, Hole in the Earth or Minerva or, you know, my own summer. It's like, those have huge choruses. And I think that's really what made,

that was like the secret sauce. with deaf tones that they could do these like mushuga riffs that um just sound like totally atonal but like they would come back with these enormous choruses and yeah it was like new metal they don't you know frank delgado doesn't do like turntable stuff anymore he just plays a nord lead three but yeah i i do think that like a real deal chorus you know would be well would be well worth it because i i like gore i like omes, I don't revisit them as much as I do, even like the self-titled. I just think that deaf tones right now, they just, you know, exist on this then diagram of so many different kinds of music that people like, that they can also get into

deaf tones. And I think that their ability to be heavy, but also have that shoegaze element or that melodic element, has been probably the key to their enduring appeal. Because they do strike me as a band that probably a lot of people get into when they're young, because there is something about their music that I think appeals to like the 12 or 13 year old brain. Yeah. You know, it has that red meat quality to it. But they're also a band that is going to lead you to other bands.

Absolutely. And as you get into those other bands, though, you don't have to leave deaf tones behind because they have enough of the other kinds of music where, you know, let's face it, like new metal, a lot of people outgrow that music at some point. Maybe less so now. But, you know, it is something that people tend to move on from. because it's just harder to maybe find a space in your life to listen to that music like once you're in your 30s or something.

But Deftones, I think, they're an easier band to grow up with than a lot of other bands, I think, from that scene because of all the other things that they do. And again, I think the fact that they're so consistent, it can be easy to take that for granted and say, well, why don't they have catchier songs like they did in the past? but I don't know. I still think this is like pretty damn good. It's like what you're going to expect from a Deftones record in 2025. I think it's reasonable to say like, oh, this is like pretty damn like they're delivering the goods, I think still. I haven't heard the rest of the record, but I think the single is pretty strong.

So we'll see how it turns out. I'm sure we'll be talking about it when the album drops in, well, I guess not that long from now. Yeah, sure. We're seeing a lot of short album cycles, which, you know, it's not quite. great for our fantasy draft, but otherwise That's true. Yeah. I think it just makes me more excited about it. But I would also recommend if you're talking about like

Def Tones leading to Discovery of other bands, have you heard their covers album? I did, yeah. I'm trying to remember like what they do on that record. They do Shade's no ordinary love, like years before Shadee became like a thing that all indie rock people had to name drop, but also they had Simple Man by Leonard

Skinner on there. They did, I think they did drawbox. savory. They did, please let me get what I want. But please, please, please let me get what I want by the Smith. It's like they were like, I love this band because they have such cool taste,

but they're like kind of not cool people. Right. There's like something not slick about it. You know, like Trina was making like Witch House albums and like two, like five years past itself by date and like trip hop albums with Team Sleep. When I interviewed him, he kept reminding me of Adam Duritz. Like the way he talks is kind of like Adam Duritz. Like him and Duritz could hang out.

Nor Cal Legends, yeah. Yeah, they would hang out and probably be bros. Maybe they already are. Who knows? But very similar. They kind of look alike, too. Yeah, I was that to say. Anyway, let's move on to our last segment here.

We're going to talk about the 10th anniversary of, is it the most important indie-adjacent album of the last 10 years? Definitely in the conversation, Tame and Paula's currents. This is a huge record to talk about an album that I think you can point to and say, okay, this is a important turning point in indie music or indie adjacent music, moving from maybe more of an underground sensibility to more of a broader pop sensibility. Of course, Tamapala, a band from Australia, started out as a psych rock band, made two awesome records in the early 2010s,

inner speaker and lonerism. And at that time, you know, they were very much in that sort of King Gizzard VOC's type vein, like Taisegal main. I mean, they were bigger than those acts, but it was, you know, catering to a relatively small niche and definitely more of like a retro rock type sensibility. And then they make this record, currents, and Kevin Parker, you know, starts working basically by himself in the studio, although I think a lot of it was made on a tour bus, if I recall correctly when I was talking to Parker about this record.

And also he basically trades a set of influences. It's no longer Pink Floyd or Sergeant Pepper Arab Beatles. It's now Michael Jackson is like a big guiding light for him. And puts this record out. It's a huge hit. And, you know, it spawns the less I know the better. one of the more popular indie songs the last 10 years, over 2 billion streams. I would say it's one of the most listenable albums, I think, of the 21st century.

It's not my favorite Tame Impala, but it's definitely the one I listen to the most. It's the one I hear the most. I feel like this album is permanently playing in every boutique, L.A. hotel. Like, when you check in, you're going to probably hear Tame and Pala and song from this album at some point. I also know this album is huge because a lot of people hate this record and they hate what it represents. I had a guy just recently

in my mentions on Twitter excoriating me, telling me how bad a writer I am, how lousy my taste is. And the thing he brought up was currents. That was his evidence. It's like, you like currents. You know, that was like, and it's like, I didn't

write the record. I just like the record. It's not like I'm the biggest currents booster in the world, but obviously a lot of people love this record. There's certainly a segment of Tame and Paula fans who feel like they sold out and started making pop music after the first two records. But no matter where you land, this is unquestionably a landmark for indie music. And I would say like the influence is actually wider than indie rock.

Certainly R&B hip-hop, you can hear the influence of this record all over the place. Yeah, I mean, just the Rihanna cover of, you know, different, person, same mistakes, different, same person, different mistakes or something like that. You know, the last song on the record. I never get the title right. But yeah, I mean, I think this is when he, you started seeing like Kevin Parker pop up on like Travis Scott and like ASAP Rocky albums, you know, to prove what a genius they are, like how far flung their tastes are. It's like, no, dog, you went to Coachella. But yeah, it's, uh, currents as an album I kind of go back and forth on where it's like absolutely a landmark. You can, you could just,

I've not been in a college dorm in the past 10 years, but I can just imagine the album cover, like, on a poster in the same way that you would see, you know, like the Pink Floyd one with all, like, the album covers on the women's backs. It's like... This is the first indie rock album that my son asked me about. Oh. My son who just turned 13, like a year or two ago, you know, he doesn't care about indie rock at all, but then all of a sudden he asks me about Tame and Pala and Currants.

So that to me was like, okay, this has reached that level. of like the way I would have asked about Dark Side of the Moon when I was his age. Yeah, and the album cover kind of looks, it's got a similar sort of like design to it. And the, this is like a little bit like off the cuff. But the one thing that this album makes me think about

more than anything is this is like the first new music Friday album I can think of. It was around this time where they started releasing albums on Friday rather than Tuesday. And for whatever reason, I thought like, oh, Currance was the first one that, I think it was just like the first big one in which that happened. But, uh, so it really is a kind of before and after record.

Um, to me, like I reviewed this one for Pitchfork. I think it's like the highest review of any new album I've ever reviewed for them. Um, and at this juncture, I would say it's like my third choice of, uh,

favorite Tame and Pala albums. Like you've mentioned them being kind of the Thai Segal, like maybe King Gizzard Lane with the first two. But I like those so much better. Oh, yeah. They're like sort of like, Like, they are psych rock, but like, you know, I think about the Dave Friedman aspect where it's maybe more like MGMT or like even like almost like N83 to a certain extent. Well, he was always writing great pop songs.

True. It just, he was using guitars and those big drums instead of synths and, you know, program beats. That was the difference. He just changed the instrumentation. But, yeah, those first two records have super catchy songs. And that is what elevated it, you know, in that. psych rock camp. Like,

we've talked about this before, Jeff Weiss talking about Dunyan, like, getting upset because he hates Tamapala, and he's like, have you guys ever heard of Dunyan? And it's like, I love Dunyan.

I've heard of Dunyan. But they don't have the songs that Tamap Apollo has. I love the drum sounds on Dunian, and they have cooler guitar parts, but they don't write the choruses. They don't have the melodies that Tamapala was always able to bring to the table.

And, like, currents is the one that really put the focus. on that. I would, again, I still prefer lonerism. I think that that is, that's got everything I want from this band in one package. And I think like the slow rush, which is the record after currents, which I think is a good record, but it does feel like, okay, is this going to be what Tame and Paula albums are now where it's kind of like a diminished returns version of currents? Like, I'm, you know, Kevin Parker's been teasing new music. Yeah.

And so we may be getting a Tamapala record this year. I really wonder if he's going to go more in the current's direction. Is there any world where he goes back to, is he going to make another elephant? Like a song like that's like a big dumb rock song. He hates that song, but it's a big, dumb, fun rock song. Yeah. Or, you know, any of the, I'm trying to think of the other hits from Ler. Solitude is Bliss or, you know, something along the lines of,

Feels like we only go backwards. Yeah. Amazing song. That's, again, an amazing pop song. Yeah. I did hear, no lie, this morning at the gym. They were playing, like, which song is this? I know it's the slow rush.

They were playing borderline. That's a good song. Yeah, good song. Yeah, I'd be in, like, I mean, I would love for him to go back to, you know, making music with guitars. Because, like, his basses, his bass lines are so good. And like my favorite song on Current is It's the moment Oh yeah

And the baseline is just insane on that But yeah I mean Currants to me is an album that's a little top heavy And I'm not talking just about like the you know The interludes that happen I to this day I cannot remember a thing about love paranoia And which I think is the Or yeah

I think that's like the second to last song I would swap the story Diana, like the new person in same old mistakes is the last track. That's because I'm a man is in the last third of the record. I don't know. I think it flows pretty damn well. Again, I feel like this is one of the most listenable records where you can just put it on and it feels good when it's on. You still rock with past life?

Is that the middle of the record? That's a spoken word one, yeah. I feel like, well, the less I know the better is right in the middle of the record. that obviously is a big hit, but past life and gossip. And even like eventually, like I think like the middle is maybe the weakest part, but eventually those are a pretty good song. But I mean, I think people that hate this record feel like it's just like easy listening pop, basically. In a way it is.

It is. The same way that like you can hear, you know, like a thriller off the wall, which were both like insanely like of the moment contemporary like groundbreaking records at the time, but they now, like, are just part of the background. But I think Kevin Parker, like, doesn't really try to beat the LA Boutique Hotel allegations, you know, like any, any, like, slightly expensive, uh, new restaurant in San Diego I go to is probably going to be playing something from currents. Uh, and, you know, he's got the big scarf. He's like, not really a celebrity. Uh, you, you know, like he seems like, I had a little trouble interviewing him. You know, I don't

think he had a heck of a lot to talk about. He's like sort of like maybe like, more like Alex G than he is, you know, an actual pop star. But I'm very interested to see if he indeed does release new music, what it will be, you know, how it will be received. Because it's been five years since Slow Rush in the same way that it's been five years since the Deftones last album owns. The last Deftones album, they're not called The Death Tones. That's something that a lot of people make the mistake of. But I think that like people are like, Their esteem is grown, whereas Tame and Paula, I wonder if it'll be seen as, I say boomer stuff, even if it's not boomer. You know what I mean?

Where it's like, oh, that's like millennial generation stuff. Or maybe people are more excited. I don't know. Well, it's a similar thing to Alex G where, you know, like you were saying, I've actually done pretty well with Kevin Parker. I've interviewed him a few times and I thought he was actually pretty good. But it was easier than Alex G. I didn't interview. But it's a similar.

more thing where, I mean, does he really have a personality that people know? I mean, he's not really out there as a person. So I feel like the chances of people being fatigued with him are less so. If he just delivers jams, I think that's, that'll take care of itself. But they seem, again, like another blank slate type group. Right. Unless people are just sick of, that sound which in a way has not like I feel like it's gone away a little bit over the past five years in the way that like

I would be like if we're talking about another 2020 record like VV Bridger's Punisher that sound is like still so present that I can anticipate a backlash whereas Tame Impala is like oh yeah that that reminds me of like a past era you know well and also

like the sound of currents like if he made another record like that that also had great songs on it, that sound never really goes out of style. You know, that sort of 80s feeling R&B, Michael Jackson Thriller, off the wall, you know, that is perpetually popular if you're bringing a good song with it. So it really depends on the song, I think, with them. If he can deliver again, I think he'll be fine.

I don't think the time gap will really matter. But I guess we'll find out. Hopefully, maybe. He's teasing new music, but, you know, we've been there before. So we'll see. You're now a recent part of the episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talked about something we're into this week. Ian, want to go first?

So if you're going to look up this album, just make sure you write like French emo band in there because the name of the band is Sport. And the album is in Waves. Very not SEO friendly. But this came out a few weeks ago. It's their first album in 11 years. I look back on their band camp

and the 2014 album was described as Jade Tree mixed with Modern and stuff, and that's really about the size of it. This album touches upon a very distinct mid-2010s variant of emo, where it was kind of getting past the more chaotic and Yelpy revival stuff into more kind of like promise ring and softer indie rock of its time. And yeah, I miss that sound. You know what I mean? I was thinking about bands from that time, like High Tide Hotel, Brave Burr, Juad Jua Veev.

Didn't strive to be anything huge, but they were just catchy, springy, shouty emo songs that didn't really get tied up in all the meamy stuff like that happened with uh you know like weed emo or like some of the other revival bands but yeah you know in the same way that like i pine for 2005 when it comes to clips uh i pine for like 2014 15 uh you know for that old style of like you know crash of rhinos and uh into it over it um you know nothing not reinventing the wheel here but just like a solid emo album in a style that really hasn't been in vogue in a minute. So the name is band is Sport. The name of the album is In Waves.

They are French. Make sure you do that when you're searching the record. Am I wrong? Or was there already an emo band named Sport? Or I guess there's Remember Sports? There is Remember Sports, which was kind of more along the kind of quasi-emo adjacent. Okay. So there wasn't a band called Sport until now?

I feel like there was a band called Sports. Or maybe like Look, man Because there's American football And there's modern baseball And there's remember sports But there's no sport There's sports

Sports is a band And sports It was a sports But there's no sport No No single sport until now Yeah And I actually wonder if

I think yeah There's definitely a sports I'm trying to remember Whether this This band's sport Has like a period At the end of their name I'm not sure

So I guess Okay, you can't be the athletic, because that's a sports publication, but you could be athletics or just athletic. Well, I think athletics was a band. I think that was kind of like a math rock. I'm like not even joking. Okay. Well, yeah, they were like a math rock band. They were more like a post rock band. But yeah, they were around back in the 2010s. I totally know who they are. Okay. Well, at any rate, I want to talk about an artist from New York City named Andy White. You might know him from the psych rock duo, Tundstart band. A group I'm a fan of. They've been making me. music now for almost 20 years. Andy made a solo record recently under the name, and I hope I pronounce this correctly, Andy Buoy, B-O-A-Y.

The record is called You Took That Walk for the Two of Us. And if you listen to the music that he's made in the past, you're aware that he's really good at making these sort of DIY lo-fi, beautiful songs with cool guitar parts and really haunting vocals. He is definitely an acolyte of Brian Wilson. He likes to stack multi-track voices, but instead of working like an expensive LA studio the way Brian Wilson did, he's working on his own, working on cassette players. So it gives those vocals, I think, an extra layer of sort of ghostly strangeness that really kind of brings out like an unsettling quality to the music while also just being very beautiful. And this new record,

It doesn't break dramatically from the sound of Tunstark band. I would say it sounds like maybe a little sparser. The vocals, too, feel like a little more prominent, the vocal harmonies. But again, it has that great quality, that sort of late 60s haunted. You know, Brian Wilson in the studio making a smile and slowly losing his mind. You know, that kind of thing. If you're into that kind of music, I think you're going to like this record a lot. I know I do.

Again, it's called You Took That Walk for the Two of Us, the artist's name Andy B-A-B-A-Y. Definitely check that out. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixedape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.