Indiecast - New Music From Big Thief, Mitski and... Post Malone?

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

After Ian hit up the Pitchfork Music Festival last weekend, Steven hits him up for a post-mortem in today's episode (6:31). Turns out Ian skipped out on Saturday — a day marred by weather delays — in order to eat custard in Wisconsin. Which means he missed out on the headline set by Big Thief, the weekend's most polarizing performance. Steven and Ian also talked about the band's recent single, "Vampire Empire," and whether it qualifies as a disappointment.Another huge indie star who put out new music this week is Mitski (22:51). Ahead of her forthcoming album The Land Is Inhospitable And So Are We, due out in September, she released a quality single, "Bug Like An Angel." After discussing the song, the guys try to place Mitski in the galaxy of reigning indie stars. From there, they pivot in a non-indie direction to Post Malone, whose new album Austin is out today. Does he deserve a yay or nay? They report, you decide (32:41).In the mailbag, a listener asks Steven and Ian to stop making fun of Sublime (43:44). This, predictably, only prompts more Sublime jokes. Ian also pulls out his San Diego card to justify the mockery.In Recommendation Corner (52:13), Ian talks about the latest effort from the long-running British band The Clientele, while Steven endorses a recent live album from Father John Misty.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 148 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast on the show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode we talk about Big Thief, Mitzky, and Post Malone. What a trio. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He can't wait to hear about my colonoscopy. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

You know, a couple weeks after we pledged to appeal to a younger demographic, I'm glad we gave up any sort of pretense of that. Like, I think we're inching that much closer to my dream of having those, like, Frank Thomas and Doug Flutie Dick Pill commercials that I always see on non-streaming TV air during Indiecast. I think we're really coming into our own here. Well, look, I bring this up. I had a colonoscopy. It was yesterday.

We're recording this on Thursday. I had it on Wednesday. And I'm bringing it up because, yeah, we're trying to appeal to a younger demographic. But I know that we have the middle-aged indie rock fan who listens to this show. And I want to do a little PSA out there that if you are 45 years or older, that you should be screening for colorectal cancer. It is a serious thing. You need to do it.

I did it. It wasn't that big of a deal. You have to drink this solution that basically cleans you out. So that's not that fun. And you can't eat for like an entire day. day before you do the screening, which is also not very fun. But the actual process itself, not a big deal. And look, colorectal cancer, it is nothing to take lightly. You need to take it seriously. So I'm trying to use my platform for good here. And, you know, doing a PSA for colonoscopy.

So maybe we can get a sponsor from the colonoscopy industry. You know, now that we have taken a stance that we are pro colonoscopy, we've officially come out as pro doing colorectal cancer screenings, we can maybe get some of that like medical money pumping into this show. There's a lot of medical money out there. I think this could be a good business for us. Yeah, or we could just like kind of stick with the remembersome guys 45-year-old thing and do the Frank Thomas Doug Flutie commercials.

Like, which, by the way, like, those air, like, constantly on TV. It's like, my youth is just being completely used against me because I used to think those guys were the shit. And now they're on a golf course, like, telling a guy like, hey, man, yeah, this is the reason your wife doesn't want to have sex with you anymore. You got to take these pills, bro. So, yeah, we're cornering the, remember some guys. Like, if you like to talk about, I don't know, here we go, Mad.

and sun airway, but also care about like colorectal cancer. This is the podcast for you, bruh. Exactly. By the way, like you're a few years shy of your colonoscopy period, right? I guess. Okay. I guess it's never too early. I thought I was until I heard that until we started recording.

You can wait until you're 45. And apparently, and for those who are curious, zero polyps, clear bill of health. I was awake during mine. I saw my colon. pink as a newborn baby. I'm telling you my colon is just unbelievable. And I don't have to have another one for 10 years

because I got the clean bill of health. Yeah, for a guy to buy voices fan, that's a pretty big deal. I was going to say, like, I haven't been nice to my colon. I was not expecting it to look as good as it did. So I think what that tells me is that I can just keep doing what I'm doing.

I don't have to change my lifestyle at all. everything is great. This was a pretty bitchy week in music discourse. We had the Pitchfork Festival this weekend. There was a lot of bitchiness going on there. I want to talk a little bit about that with you as regards to Big Thief.

We had Diet Coke Lester Bangs out here in the streets talking. I think he's upset that he can't grow a full mustache. I don't know what his deal was, but he was talking smack. A lot of people talking smack this week. What was your experience? experienced like a pitchfork. Like, were you hearing? Because you're hanging out with all these music

writers. Were they bitchy at the festival? Like, were they complaining about stuff? What was that experience like? Well, I mean, in light of our shift towards, you know, old man problems, I did get recognized twice for indie cast by two pretty young-looking people. So shout to death. I remember they came out to me when I was looking at the show posters like I always do every year. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe there was bitchiness going on. I spent like half of that weekend in Wisconsin. I missed Saturday where a lot of it got rained out. And you know what? Like it was me talking to the same writers I've been seeing there since like 2008. Maybe there's like a younger generation that I missed. But it was just more like a class reunion. And I didn't notice any

sort of bitchiness like until until like the next day. Because, No, I didn't hear much discourse, but apparently the big thief, uh, set, which I missed completely because, you know, I was getting frozen custard at the Milwaukee Museum of Art. Like, that was a, wait, wait, wait, did you go to cops? I went to Cops. Yeah, not Colbers. We did cops. I went to the Mars Cheese Palace in Kenosha.

I mean, I think I had to, like, the third ward. I think I had a pretty, I think I had a pretty solid Milwaukee experience. Did you drive past my old house in Milwaukee? I don't think we, I didn't think we found time to get that. Couldn't fit that in. No, I understand. Yeah, because, yeah, for Cops, for Milwaukee Custard, you got to go to Cops. There's also Leons.

That's another famous place there. Like Neil Diamond, I remember, went to Leons when he was in town. It's a custard paradise in Milwaukee. That's why everyone in Milwaukee looks so fit is because of all the custard there. I say that with love because I used to live there. Anyway, you didn't go, so you didn't see Big Thief. I did not see Big Thief. I saw just the discourse after the fact, and I don't fucking know.

Well, it's interesting with Big Thief because I've seen Big Thief twice. I saw them once in like a 600-person capacity room, and I saw them the second time at a big festival. And I thought they were great both times. They were two very different shows, like the smaller. show was was pretty quiet and then the festival show it was actually the nationals festival like that they do sometimes in Cincinnati that was a much that was a much louder show like that that was like where adrian linker was you know doing like the heavy guitar solo thing like the like the like the Neil young sounding guitar which he's totally capable of doing live and they do a little bit

on their records but not a ton of I kind of wish they did that more on their records but I've always enjoyed them live, but they apparently have a reputation for being a hit or miss live band. And from what I saw online, that the pitchfork performance was a miss, apparently. I didn't see the live stream. I was up north. I did see some of the MJ Lenderman set, which was very well regarded. MJ Lenderman playing with two drummers, one of whom was Spencer Tweedy, Jeff Tweedy's son.

And he'd pitchfork Fest without him. If I couldn't love M.J. Lenderman more, now he's playing with two drummers. I mean, come on. This guy is just totally pandering to me. But anyway, yeah, were people talking about Big Thief when you were there? Because the chatter online is that they weren't great at the festival. You know, I saw them in 2021 where they weren't a headliner. They were one of the major acts.

And they played, to my recollection, quite a few songs that ended up on the 2022 album. And it was good. I mean, like, I don't know what people expect. I think that Big Thief are a band that has become well-known, not notorious, let's say, for playing, like, new material prior to people hearing it. And I wouldn't understand why people would be disappointed in that because a lot of hype has been kind of swirling around this song, Vampire Empire, that they've been doing, which was released recently. I don't know, like, I can't understand why. I mean, if Big Thief, like, I don't know, played the hits, what the hell would that even mean? I didn't hear anything one way or the other, maybe just because the people I was talking to most of the weekend were just like 35 to 45-year-old music writers who were just like stoked to see somebody in their lives who cares about the same shit they do, you know?

I mean, this is an ironic thing about Big Thief. in light of what I just said about their reputation for being an inconsistent live act is that there's also this thing with Big Thief, I think, where a lot of people prefer the live versions of their songs to the studio versions, especially if they heard the live version first. And that seems to be the case with Vampire Empire,

because this was a song that they played recently on the Colbert show, and it was a performance that a lot of people loved. Of course, people remember when Big Thief was on Colbert and they did not. Yeah. And that is one of the more famous live performances in recent years. People just love that performance.

I have to say, I didn't love, I don't love this song. I didn't love it on Colbert, and I don't really like the studio version either. And it was interesting because, I don't know if you saw this, but someone from the Big Thief Camp posted, I think it was an Instagram message about the chatter, about vampire. where they were basically saying like, you know, if you like the Colbert version, you can listen to

the Colbert version. But we did a different version for the studio version, and that's, you know, you can listen to that too. But it was basically like, like, shut the fuck up, stop complaining about this studio version. And it was, I feel like they've done this before. They've posted things like this before. I mean, Big Thief is a band that, I mean, they're very popular. or in Andy Rock Circles.

They're not all that mainstream, I think. I mean, they have somewhat of a profile in the mainstream, but I'm curious about how they handle the scrutiny, you know, because we're going to be talking about Mitzki here in a minute. I mean, she has a whole other level of psychotic followers. But, you know, there's a fair amount of intensity around Big Thief as well. People take that band very seriously. and, you know, there was that controversy.

I think that was last year when they were playing Israel and they canceled it. Yeah, right. There was that whole thing. And I don't even want to get into that whole controversy. But I don't know. It does seem like they hear the chatter and that it gets to them to some degree.

And which I totally understand. Like, when I read that Instagram post about Vampire Empire, I was like, yeah, I think this is totally reasonable. Although at the same time, it's like, maybe you don't respond to this. I don't know if that's a smart thing to do. I bet it was the basis. I feel like that guy was shirtless for the most part during the festival,

so he's probably feeling himself a little more than the other people in the band. But I also think it kind of punctures the entire appeal of Big Thief if they're responding on, if they're like posting notes apps on Instagram. Like you want to think of them as like almost like a modern day jug ban. You know, they're wearing barrels or burlap sats. and just kind of exploring each other's, like, uh, oras and some, like, uh, upstate New York or what have you. Um, but I get it. I, you know, it's interesting because like when we're talking about like how big, big thief is, I mean, you know, they're headlining, you know,

pitchfork fest on a Saturday big, but, um, and I did see a bunch of t-shirts there at the festival, not anywhere near as many as I did of the national boy for a band that wasn't playing in any way, shape, or form. Their t-shirt presence was like, similar to like what I see from the strokes when I went to FYFFS, you know, in 2016. Oh, good for them. Yeah, the national still doing major merch money. Well, I mean, the bookings this year at Pitchfork Festival were very, you know, sort of appealing to a national fan. You know, all three headliners, the smile, big thief, and Bonnie Vair. You got always on the bill.

You know, there's a lot of, like, national adjacent groups. Centrist and D.D. You know? Yeah, totally. Another thing that came out of this big thief chatter and the bitchiness that I was referring to earlier was, there was this review that ran on stereo gum of the big thief performance that a lot of people decided that they wanted to make fun of online. That I did see.

Yeah. And I mean, how would you even explain this review? It was basically talking about Big Thief being a prototypical band in the sense that all four members seem like they are essential to the whole and how that is unique these days and how the adventurousness of what they do live introducing new songs. There's sort of like a jam band aspect to what they do even though they don't jam necessarily. they carry themselves like a jam band in a lot of ways. Oh yeah. And like how that's kind of antithetical to what it seems like people want in like the indie sphere. I think that was the gist of what he was writing about in this piece.

Am I missing anything? I mean, like this writer Julian Towers, they've written about bands that I like. And I think they generally, you know, we share a similar taste. So I want to preface with that. I like half-acidly tried to read it while getting ready in the morning on like Sunday or something like that. So I didn't quite grasp what they were getting at. But like the headline of the article was that Big Thief is a band. You know, Big Thief is an army, better yet than Navy. I don't know. But I think the gist of it and what people kind of reacted against was this sense that if people

were disappointed with Big Thief playing new music or jamming, it's because they're they can't wrap their head around the complexity of what they're doing, or people are just so, people are just, like, so, um, caught up in the, you know, like you mentioned Mitzki, uh, of having these like, like, parisocial relationships with, um, like, kind of solo artists who are quasi bands that, uh,

I think it was pro big thief. Like, I never quite, yeah, I mean, the points, like those points, I actually, I agree with a lot of, yeah. And the point about them being a unique band, I mean, I've written about the, I've said the same thing about Big Thief in the past. So, like, I'm in line with what the piece was talking about. To me, I don't even want to, I mean, getting into the argument of what it was saying, I think that's like beside the issue. I feel like a lot of the talk, and this is something I've seen recently, like, with increasing regularity, it was talking about the style of the writing. Yeah.

Which was this. It was a throwback to what music writing was like or what pitchfork was like in the early 2000s. More of a gonzo style where it's very, you know, there's a lot of, you know, it's very reliant on a writer's voice and their perspective. And, you know, I see this sometimes, like where people will screenshot some piece of pitchfork writing from 2002. And they'll be like, oh, man, aren't you glad music writing isn't like this any? anymore and like they'll clown on it. And I have to say like, I'm not a gonzo writer myself.

I don't really like that style personally. I don't like writing in that style. I don't like a lot of that kind of writing. But I always want that writing to exist somewhere. I want someone to be doing it because I think it's, I think it's nice to have that out there. Even when I read it and I'm annoyed by it and I might DM someone and go get a load of this bullshit. I want it to be out there. I want there to be a William Bowers out there doing super discursive writing that is way on a limb that probably fails 99 times out of 100.

Just because I think it makes it more interesting. I mean, I hear people complain all of the time about how boring culture writing is. And yet, whenever someone does something that's unique, those same culture writers will gang up and trash that person. And it's like, why do you think things are so boring? It's because culture writers, police, other culture writers, whenever they step out of line. If you say something that isn't with the pack, that writer gets killed. If a writer does something that's kind of experimental or wacky or whatever, they gang up and they kill that writer. They do it all the time.

And it annoys the hell out of me when that happens. It's like, we're all writers. Why are you ganging up on like the one person who might be doing something unique? It just drives me crazy when that happens. It's like if you do that, then don't complain that things are boring, you know, because you are contributing to the problem. I have to say, if you're in your early 20s, I don't think you should be writing professional and competent copy.

That is the time to be totally self-indulgent and just goes out as far as you can, say stupid things. You know, I mean, that's the crappy thing about the social media era is like when I was 24, I worked for a small town newspaper that no one read. There was no way anything I wrote was ever going to go viral. So I could just write shitty column after shitty column and nobody cared. And that was healthy. I could just be in the wilderness until I got a little bit better. And I realized, okay, that was stupid. I don't want to do that again.

You can't do that now because a bunch of like 42 year old burnouts will jump on you. If you, if you, I hate that. I hate it. Yeah, I think it was actually, the odd thing about this article or just what I've seen around the discourse is that I think the defenders of it were largely like older people because it reminded them of the exact thing that you talked about, which is, you know, this sort of blog spot. Not like factually incorrect. Like I've seen some, you know, stuff like that lately and people get mad at, you know, like younger writers who just like get basic facts. wrong or like just poor editing but like this does have this element of uh something i relate to a lot which is you know kind of blog spot era just having these very strong opinions and being like you know

no one's telling the truth but i'm going to just set people straight and just kind of going out there and uh just offering your opinions and like writing as if you know you're doing so for 50 or so blog spot commenters because i did this shit all the time i also did it for like you know a very small audience and nobody was paying me for that. I always think back to one of the most resonant stories of that era, which is from the, it was from a book, oh my God, like the name's escaping me. Ripped. Yeah, Gray Cot wrote it. It's called Ripped. And a lot of the, it's about like the early internet and, uh, indie rock bands and death cab was one of the main subjects. And they talked about like how important it was for them to essentially suck in private.

Like, there was no internet. Like, they were shitty for a while, but, like, they were allowed to grow from it. And look, I think the deal with music writing is that, like, it's always going to be run by the people who want it the most. Like, you always see people like this who get clown. It's their turn over the barrel. And yet, because they love music writing so much, they continue to get work. I can name a shitload of people who have, you know, leverage that into a career. And, yeah, I mean, people.

The good news is, and the one piece of, like, solace I can offer to anybody who's been in that position, in two days it'll be somebody else. Yeah, it's funny. Look, if you do this, if you put yourself out there, you're going to be in the barrel. It'll happen to you. And you just have to know, yeah, it passes in not a lot of time. And a lot of people who are doing, who are putting you in the barrel, they've never done anything and they will never do anything.

They just tweet. Like it's the same people that have been tweeting for 10 years. They don't write anything. They just tweet. It's just dumb. Yeah. It's funny because like I think oftentimes you'll see writers try to trump up like the importance of music writing and how like we are

you know, we're all out there together and like you know, 90% of like what music writers probably do on a day to day basis is like DM group like do group DMs about like get a load of this asshole. I think that the, I think that the solidarity amongst music writers is like really overstated but um it's always like there's none yeah there's none with crabs at no honor amongst thieves you know all like is that the proper term to say

like i've never actually had to say that like in regards to something that felt real but it's a barrel it's a barrel of snakes man isn't it crabs no crabs are in a bucket snakes are in a barrel i don't know right I mean, you could probably put snakes in a bucket or crabs in a barrel. Yeah, we're all just biting over the same $200 fucking dollars. Hey, speak for yourself, man. I make well more than that. But anyway, I got to calm myself down here. I got a little worked up during the Big Thief segment here.

Let's talk about an artist that always provokes calm, reasoned conversations, and that's Mitzki. She put out a new single this week. It's called Bug Like an Angel. It's the first song released from her upcoming album, which is called The Land is Inhospitable, and so are we. And we're invoting yes, or whatever. And that album comes out in September, less than two years after Laurel Hell.

Like, pretty quick turnaround for Mitzki here. Am I wrong? Is that title sub-tweeting her psychotic fan base? Probably not. I mean, do you really want to go there with the fan base? And the fact that we're even like describing them as psychotic gives me a bit of pause because... Oh, come on. No, I'm saying.

Come on. Yeah, I'm saying, like, I can't tell what this fan base is capable of. But yeah, I think that, I don't know, you could, I could imagine that if Mitzky really does do the press rounds, which I don't anticipate. You know, the land is hospitable and so are we. It could be, you know, just, I don't know. post-COVID anxiety or like the 2024 election. It could be really applied to anything. So I wouldn't say it's necessarily a shot at her fan base,

although if it was, she's not like Doja Cat, you know. I think Doja Cat is like the only artist who's like reasonably handling their less balanced fans. But yeah, I don't think Mitzky is really going there. So this new single, I'm going to sound like a rock. here. Won't be the first time, but so be it. Won't be the last either, I'm sure. I found it reassuring that she's playing guitar

on this song because she had her last two records. Yeah, Be the Cowboy and Laurel Hell. Those were like her synth pop records. And clearly was a good pivot for her because it made her bigger than ever. I like Be the Cowboy. Was not a big fan of Laurel Hell.

I was on record. I wrote a review of that record. I was pretty negative on it. It's interesting because someone recently asked me, do you feel like her albums are getting incrementally better? And I was like, absolutely not. I do not think that way. I mean, I think Puberty 2 is still her best record.

And Barry Me at Makeout Creek, the album before that, I'm also a big fan of, but Puberty 2 still seems like her peak. But it does seem like that is the minority. opinion possibly at this point among her fans because the people who love Mitzki at this point it seems like the bulk of her audience probably came on board with the last two albums. It reminds me a little bit of what happened with the national where you're at a point now like where

the majority of people at a national show don't really care about alligator. They care about high violet or maybe even some of the recent records. Trouble Will Find Me was a big, big record. I think that for a certain generation, I've found this out as I talked to people who are 10 to 15 years younger, but Trouble Will Find Me is like the one

that brought a lot of people into the tent. I can see that. I mean, I've seen younger people say that they feel like the last, like the late 2010's albums, like were the best albums that they ever made, like Sleepball Beast. and I'm easy to find. You had to think about what that one was called. Well, yeah, exactly.

Exactly. I'm not a fan of that record. But again, it just goes to show that or like the successful indie artists who span generations that there are different entry points. And Mitzki, that's certainly true of her. Where do you think Mitzky is right now

in the galaxy of indie? stars. Like, where, like, where is she in the hierarchy, would you say? Like, is she bigger than Phoebe Bridgers, would you say? No. She's not, see, I would say no either, except on Spotify, Minsky has more monthly listeners, and, like, she has more bigger songs than Phoebe Bridgers does. Like, there's a Mitzky song, I'm going to look this up while I'm talking, that has like a half a billion streams. And it might be, it might be a song from Laurel Hell, but it's washing machine heart, which is from... Beatt the cowboy, yeah.

Interesting. That was not the song I expected for you to say. Yeah, like, the greatest American girl is like, it doesn't, I don't think that's in her top ten of, like, most stream songs. Wild. Yeah, that's crazy. So she's actually, in terms of, like, streaming numbers, she does better than Phoebe Bridgers.

She's not as famous, I feel like, as Phoebe, but Phoebe also is someone who constantly puts herself out there. Whereas Mitzki is more of like a Lana Del Rey, I guess. Although Lina Del Rey is now going to like Waffle Houses and working as a way. Did you see that? Yeah. I don't know if she's like promoing like an album or something, but she's been working in different southern restaurants lately.

Committing to the bit, you know? Very viral stuff. Yeah, she's a genius with that kind of stuff. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I feel like Mitzky, it'll be. curious to see what this next album does for her. She is kind of like the biggest thing. She's like one of the biggest things in indie music or indie rock, whatever, however you

wanted to find that. Yeah, I mean, I think she did a really excellent job. Not like, I don't know if it was intentional or not, but like Laurel Hell was the exact kind of record that, you know, kind of bridge the gap between like these ridiculous expectations and perhaps a more sustainable career because it felt a little underwhelming. end of the year, it still ended up making all these year-end lists. And now she's kind of striking while the iron's hot. You know, there's not the same sort of expectations or, like, kind of bad vibes around this that there sort of were with Laurel Hell. And, you know, I think Laurel Hell

might be kind of like this type of album that we've talked about in the past, like plans or good news for people who love bad news and that, you know, it's not going to, for people who maybe are like 15 or 18 now, that's like going to be the one that they love the most because that's the one that they first got into, right? That was like the first one that they got into as like an aware Mitzky fan. And the only heartbreaker was apparently number one on an adult alternative radio. Like, that's, that was like a big hit. I guess. Yeah. I mean, I believe it. Yeah. Well, what was the format again? Adult. Adult alternative radio, which I, I, I don't know when it was number two.

I imagine it's largely national songs. It's interesting because, like, you know, streaming-wise, it did, it did $34,000 or $34 million, which, you know, it's a good number. But it doesn't seem, like, ubiquitous in a way that, like, the songs from Be the Cowboy or Puberty 2, which, by the way, I listen to Puberty 2 yesterday. I don't know if it's her quote best, but I think it's like, it's definitely my favorite. That record fucking rules. I think it's her best. Okay. Like, what would be, like, what's the argument against, like, why don't you want to just say it's her best?

Like, what's the argument there? What's holding you back? I don't know. Just like the amount of tweets I've, like, made over the years about distinguishing between best, which is, I think, find hard to objectify and favorite, which is a lot easier. But, like, I don't know. You could argue that, like. I think in that case, it's the best and it's my favorite. I can, I know you mean you can, you can delineate between the two.

but I think like I would think that maybe bury me at Makeout Creek would be your favorite because that is more in line with what you like aesthetically which is the say of the Simpsons but yeah and it's like her emo record too or it's the closest thing that she's made to an emo record

yeah I would say that like I don't know you can make the argument that like be the cowboy has like more craft or what have you that it's like a little more unique but yeah pure they're all they're all great but my favorite is definitely puberty too. I feel like it's got that like emo component of Barry Me at Makeout Creek, but it's not quite as, you know, stuck in the, you know, guitar, drums, bass sort of format.

It does more interesting things production-wise. Yeah, I mean, again, my thing with Mitzky is that as she's become more acclaimed and become more famous and successful, her records have gotten worse, which is not an uncommon trajectory, I'm hoping that this new album changes the tide a little bit. And again, God, I hate to be this much of a simpleton. Is it only going to be a matter of her playing more guitar? Is that going to be the thing that makes me like it more? I feel a little self-hatred about that because I feel like that's such a cliche,

but it may be the case. I don't know. I mean, I like synth pop. I'm not against that, but I just feel like for her and like her production team, I don't think she pulled it off as well as other people working in that vein, whereas like what she was doing on Puberty 2, that was unique to her, and it was so good. And I'd like personally to hear her get back to that.

Okay, well, let's talk about another huge indie rock star, which is Post Malone. Of course, I'm being ironic there. Post Malone, he has a new album out today. It's called Austin. And this will surely be the biggest album in the country. country, perhaps for a while. Although, I don't know, is Morgan Wallen still up there? He's probably still...

Jason Aldeen, the Indicast, being revoked and Indycast seal of approval has not stopped Jason Aldean's rise, so... Well, he's so exceptional in every way. I mean, you can't hold that guy back. Yeah. He's a great songwriter, oh, wait, he's not. He's a great singer, no, he's not.

He plays guitar really well, and now he just stands there. Great-looking person, no, he's not. He looks like a side of beef. But yeah, I don't know. He's a huge star. He's doing well. hopefully post Malone can come along and take him down a peg. We have not heard this album yet.

I don't know if anyone's heard this album yet. Maybe. But we figured let's yay or nay, post Malone. Where do you say on Post Malone? Are you yay or nay? Are you Post Malone? Are you pre-Malone? Are you present Malone?

Where are you at? Post Malone has been famous for how long? Like a decade at this point? Like, when did White Iverson come in? I don't. I didn't really know about him until, like, the late 2010s. Wait, was he famous before that? White Iverson came out in 2016, so.

Okay. Or 2015. So we're going on eight years. And I don't know if I've ever actually listened to White Iverson. I mean, I've heard sunflower a bunch of times in past, like, I've heard parts of sunflower just on the radio or in supermarkets, and it thought it sounded. it's sort of like broken social scene. Like I vaguely recall rock star.

Like Post Malone is an artist who I've, you know, ingested like 30 seconds to a minute a half at a time. I did, however, dress up as Post Malone for Halloween in 2020. You can totally get like Post Malone face tattoo kits on Amazon. And I feel like I should have opinions about Post Malone. But like he, I can sort of. ignore him for long stretches of time. Like, he doesn't impress himself on the narrative in the same way that, like, the weekend,

or Harry Stiles or other, you know, male, or Drake or whatever other artists are at his level do. He's just some kind of dude. So in most circumstances, I'd be, like, yack, I don't know, like, meh on him. However, again, I want to preface. I've not heard a single note of Austin yet, but he's taking. beach fossils on tour like a band that i wrote about in 2010 who i always considered like i don't know maybe like not quite on the level of like wild nothing uh but yeah this guy fucks with beach fossils

like they're getting a bag going out on tour he's posting on instagram with like bands like drain and military gun so yeah post malone kind of a real one like i he's kind of like a post music artist for me at this point where it's like if he's just around kind of giving depth to like bands i like then i have to consider that a force for good kind of similar to the way power more brought out block party and foals for their tour i just kind of hope post malone is i don't know like a charit he's like sort of like a like an NGO in the future so um yay on post malone no i do not plan on listening to austin so i'm a yay on post malone as well and i actually am a yay on his music too. I think in terms of

the big pop stars, he's like one of my favorite. And I would say that he's definitely the most likable. Like he seems like a genuinely nice down-to-earth person as much as you can be when you're that rich and famous. Like he's probably not actually

that down-to-earth, but relative to other people in his orbit, he seems like the most approachable. He's like Harry Styles without the smarm to me. You know, like Harry Stiles, makes a point of saying be nice in every goddamn song he puts out to the point where you feel

like, this guy's probably an asshole in real life. No one will ever dissuade me from that. I have a suspicion about that. It will be confirmed one day. But anyway, Post Malone, you know, I used to clown on him because I just thought it was funny that there was an album called Beer Bongs and Bentley's that was nominated for an album of the year Grammy. Like, I just thought, I can't resist.

Did it win? it didn't win. I don't remember what won that year. And I don't really care. I totally care. So I'm going to look this up. It's like you can get the Grammys. You have an album title called Beer Bongs and Bentley's. And it's like, oh, this guy has all these face tattoos. And from a very sort of like reductive, shallow, superficial perspective, it was easy to make jokes about him. But, you know, I have had songs of his penetrate my orbit in part because he is so popular. And you can, you can, you know, I have had songs of his penetrate my orbit. And you can, you can, you know, measure that popularity by streaming numbers. I mean, he is as popular pretty much as anyone. I was looking at his Spotify stats. Sunflower has been streamed like 2.8 billion times.

That song, Rockstar, has been streamed 2.8 billion times. I mean, he's closing in on 3 billion streams just for, like, one song. So he's hugely popular. There's also the standard that I use where, like, my kids know his music, and my kids really only care about music that they hear in video games. They don't really care about music other than that

I was listening to Sunflower while getting ready for this episode and my kids' heads snapped directly to me and they're like oh man yeah that's in whatever Roblox game and then my daughter started playing the song

while I was playing the song so we had like two devices playing Sunflower in the house so that's two more streams for Post Malone there but I don't know His last record, Hollywood Bleeding, which I believe came out in 2019. I'd listen to that album.

I like that album. I think it's a pretty good album. The big hit from that record, or one of the big hits, is that song Circles? I don't know if you've heard that song. That's the one that sounds like broken social scene. Yeah. Yeah, that's a song that I feel like a million indie pop artists have been trying to make that song for like the last five years and they haven't succeeded. Like that is such an earwormy, you know,

combination of like there's a little bit of rock in there there's like a little bit like an indie influence in there and it's very pop also obviously hip hop and r&b it's just like a melage of all of these sounds that are popular on streaming platforms and post malone has mastered the formula and he's put it together and i'm saying that in a cynical way but like the song itself i think is like a it's an undeniable song like you hear it it's it's very appealing it's very catchy. And he has just like a lot of songs like that. It goes down easy. I don't think he's super distinctive. I think what he does is he takes a lot of different kinds of music that are popular right now and he synthesizes it. And I'm not quite sure like what his voice is, you know,

but what the way he synthesizes it is, I don't know, he's sort of like a real life AI. You know, he could create music the way that I imagine. I will be creating music like in five years. By the way, you mentioned Hollywood bleeding or Hollywood's bleeding. Also, Grammy nominated for Best Album of the Year. I'm looking at this list and I got to ask. Like, I bet given enough time you could figure out like what won in 2019. But do you remember what was the Grammy album of the year in 2022?

No. John Battiste, we are. Oh, right. Beat out Donda, hers back of my mind, Evermore, Justice Triple Chuck's Deluxe Justice Triple Chuck Deluxe version from Justin Bieber. Love for Sale by the recently departed Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga. Yeah, if you ever just kind of need a just a kick,

go look back at like the recent past the Grammy Alamo the Year nominations. These are amazing. My one quibble, and I don't know if I said this, I'm a yay. I think I said yay at the beginning. I just want to make sure I'm on the record as yay for Post Malone. My one quibble with him is that he popularized spelling Rockstar, which is two words as one word. Okay. How's the energy drinks spell?

It's one word. Was the energy, maybe that was before the song. I feel like Rockstar energy drink and Rockstar games, the people who make Grand Theft Auto. Oh, right. Okay. So it's not just post him alone. Okay. So maybe I don't have a quibble with him.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine. It's like when people spell woe, which is W-H-O-A, and they spell it W-O-A-H. I hate that. That is a huge pet peeve of mine. People misspell woe. They make rock star one word. I see this all the time. It drives me insane.

I was ranting earlier in the episode about, you know, people ganging up on writers to try to be unique. I hate that. I also hate Spawn Rockstar as one word. That is a huge pet peeve of mine. And the woe thing is maybe my biggest pet peeve. I don't know. Are we associating, like being a bit kind of angsty with like a colonoscopy? I mean, this is not like a good advertisement for it.

No, man, I was cleaned out. I was cleaned out. I think, I think, you know, look, it's just a bitchy week. I guess I'm bitchy too. I'm contributing to the bitchiness. But I think I'm on the side of righteousness. So the bitchiness is justified. Bitchiness is next to godliness, yes.

How do you spell woe? W-H-O-A. I don't recall like, well, that's how Black Rob spelled it and his song, woe. So I think of that as the definitive version. So I'm going with W-H. Okay. That's the right way. That's the right way.

That's the right way. That is the right way. the W-O-A-H That's that's woa That's that whoa Come on Don't spell it that way I cannot think of any time in the recent past

Where I've actually had to write that word So I see it all the time People misspell it all the time That's my other PSA here Get a khanoscopy And the second PSA is W-H-O-A

Not W-O-AH We're taking some big stance here Right Let's get to our mailbag segment. And please write us. We'd like to hear from our listeners. We can hit us up at Indycastmailbag at gmail.com.

So, Ian, you want to read our letter this week? Yeah, totally. So Dan from Fairfield, Connecticut writes longtime listener, occasional letter writer, and Dan from Fairfield request that we please refrain from shit talking sublime. It's painful for me as my teenage self was so deeply into them, and I can't come to grips with the haunting truth that it may not be legendary music. The same goes for Bob Marley. Thanks, keep it up.

And PS, D, picking a yak on Art Brute is horseshit. So a lot going on here. Man, the bitchiness continues in the mailbag. First of all, don't group Bob Marley was sublime. Like, Bob Marley is legit genius, okay? you don't have we're never going to shit talk Bob Marley no

but that actually is legendary music and Dan no disrespect here but like I question your ability to discern music here if you are saying well I'm defensive about sublime because I liked it as a kid

and I'm worried that it might not actually be as good as I thought it was and then you say same as Bob Marley I mean come on man that's I don't know man that's insane that's an insane sentence construction there

my friend. What did we say about Sublime? I don't remember. I can't remember. I think that we've, I may have brought up this story about the time when, uh, I all, like the one time I came close to getting my ass kicked in person because I expressed an opinion about music was someone I worked with, um, who thought Sublime was the greatest band of the 90s and I disagree with that. And so I guess, I guess like, I have several qualms about this, which is, first of which is that, like, look, I'm not going to let someone from Connecticut tell me how to feel about Sublime as like a San Diego.

I mean, maybe, like, I guess the, like, equivalent would be me writing into, like, a Connecticut-based version of Indycast saying that, like, like, Guster is actually bullshit. But, you know, like, John Mayor. John Mayer's from, is he from Canada? I thought he was from Atlanta. No, he made his bones in Atlanta, but I believe he's from Connecticut.

Okay, that makes sense. But, yeah, I mean, with Sublime, like, look, man, like, you can, Dan can say this, because, he's not as immersed in sublime culture as I am in San Diego. Like, that is still very much a type of guy that exists in San Diego to the point where people kind of wrongly assume that they're from San Diego, despite saying that from Long Beach, you can't avoid hearing what I got. Like, you really fucking can.

So, um, but yeah, I think the interesting, the thing that stood out to me about the Bob Marley comparison is that like, yeah, if you've been in a dorm room over the past 25 years, you know, you're going to. come across both of them maybe from the same person. But like, Bob Marley is actually an artist I've come to appreciate more since my teenage years. Like, once you get past that, like,

legend, the greatest hit CD and dorm posters, he becomes a lot more interesting. He's sort of like the Grateful Dead in that regard where he becomes a slur of like avatar for like that one guy on the lacrosse team who bullied you and then you kind of realize the scope of their artistry.

He's got like 10 great albums up, Molly. His 70s period is amazing. He's like one of the great artists of that decade and there's a lot of competition in the 70s, but he's right up there with anyone. Yeah, I guess just, I can see how they be associated with each other. But yeah, I mean, I think I'm like uniquely qualified

to say whatever the fuck I want about Sublime. And, you know, I heard what I got the other day. And I think I just mentioned that the fact that like, that is like once on that makes me want to fucking punch somebody like I love

I love that you're pulling the San Diego card here this is great given what I pay given what I fucking pay to live here I can say whatever the fuck I want

you're pulling the San Diego card I love it I heard Santeria this weekend this thing about Sublime is that they're hateable because they have

well there's what I got, Santoria. Wrong way. Oh, wrong way. You know, the thing, when I heard Santa Ria this weekend, another thing that I hate about Sublime occurred to me is that they are one of the most egregious examples of, like, a white rock band, like, appropriating, like, hip-hop language

in, like, a semi-ironic way. Like, there's a part in Santoria where he talks about... Please don't say it, because, like, I might not be able to make it through the rest of the episode. I might just, like, break down. if I fucking hear it. Like the punk-ass part? Yeah, I got it.

Like, what does he say? I can't remember what I'm going to fucking give it the, look at what you're making me do, man. Like, I know the lyrics. I've heard them and I could say them, but like I would rather, I don't know, man.

Just talk about anything else other than sublime. Just thinking about it. Like, I mean, God. I'm Googling the lyrics here. You know, rest in peace. You know, Bradley Noel, like, but man. Okay, and I won't think twice to stick that barrel straight down Sancho's throat, believe me when I say that I got something for his punk ass. Which, yeah, I mean, look, it was the 90s.

I mean, that was the time of, like, fun-loving criminals and, you know, the, the, there's probably some relation of, like, the Tarantinoization of culture at that point. I mean, look, they were a, they were not unique in that regard. If I can, you know, if I can defend sublime in any real way, they were not unique in that regard. And I think that there are tons of bands in Southern California who were, you know, trying to do something similar and they just did not get as big. So I would not. So like if someone, I'm sorry to cut you up, but like if someone is smack talking slightly stupid. I would love to hear it. I should say if someone is praising slightly stupid.

stupid, you would pull the San Diego card there as well and be like, hey, I live in San Diego, I can say that they, that they suck. Yeah, I mean, they, they tour together. I don't think I've heard an actual slightly stupid song. I know that, that was funny because, like, they played,

um, they put, they did a, they did a co-headlining tour slightly stupid and sublime with Rome recently an atmosphere open, like, like, like the, emo rap gods from Minnesota, uh, like, it's so funny because like, you want to

talk about bands that were, you know, strange fucking bedfellows back then. Like, in 2002, like, you know, the one guy in the dorm is listening to Sublime, like, smoking weed or, like, playing hacky sack. And then you got, like, the angry-ass kid listening to God Loves Ugly. And here they are now, you know? I think that's just... I mean... That's just a theme with, like, Indycast, you know, like, when Weezer and the Pixies

tour, it's, like, you... The arc of time is long enough. Like, bands that were popular at the same time will probably... end up touring together. See, I probably shouldn't say this because I live in the Twin Cities now, but I can't stand rap from Minneapolis. Okay, so that is just as likely to get your ass kicked, because I know about Minneapolis people and how they feel about like doom tree and shit.

I know. I'm going to be, like, an electric fetus or something, and someone's going to, like, shiv me in the vinyl section. What do you mean? POS is whack. Like, oh, my God. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I'm sorry.

It's just like a lot of it is so lame. I'm sorry. It's just not. It's like I have local, but I mean, I'm not from here. I live here. You know,

anyway, do you think that, okay, because he said me saying Nyak on Art Brut is horseshit. Do you think it's because he's a yay or nay on Art Brut? I think he just wants this, you know,

like fall one way or the other. I don't know. Sorry, dude. It's a knack. Yeah. I stand by it. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first?

I don't know. After such a contentious episode, I feel like it's only right that I, you know, bring things down a peg. It's not contentious, though. It's not between us. Oh, no, totally not. It's just us versus the world. Yeah, we are, it's righteous indignation, you know. We are like the Bob Marley, if you will, a podcast thing.

Yeah, it's the usual, like, why should I change? He's the one who sucks. So I want to, this is an album that I've been super into over the past couple of months and I'm a little surprised. It isn't getting more hype or maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm not surprised. But the clientele is actually a band that we've done a yay or nay here in the past. I was firmly yay. And they have a new album out today called I Am Not There Anymore. In most, in most times like a new clientele album would be, oh cool, they're back. They're doing their thing. This album is more like the ones. that I tend to get into of late where it feels like almost like a CD. It's, I think 19 songs, there's some interludes and it's about an hour long. Just really experimental, relatively speaking. It's still got the same, like, tunefulness and poetic lyrics, but it's a little experimental

in like a 90s electronica sort of way, like back when, you know, like artists from that hour would be like, yeah, we're really getting into loops or whatever. But yeah, it reminds me a little bit of another Indycast favorite. Wild Pink's Last Now, I love you so much in that it kind of goes in the same sort of, you know, the same sort of like experimental drum machines, like horns, like the first song's eight minutes. It's a real journey. And, you know, if it were up to me, this one would be as celebrated as, you know, like the last Yoletango record. Because I think that is, it's in a similar lane of.

a legacy band that hasn't done much to kind of gin up interest of late, like really going way beyond, you know, what they would need to do in order just to like, you know, be heard. This is one of my favorite albums of the year. I imagine it'll be up there when the year ends. But yeah. Wow. Yeah, I don't know if it's like if you've never heard the clientele,

like this would be a way to introduce yourself. That would be suburban light or strange geometry. But if you like the clientele, and maybe have checked out, which, you know, understandable. Like this one I really think is they've really, hopefully have ushered in another wave of appreciation. So one of your favorites of the year? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Big declaration. I have not heard this record. I'm going to check it out. I like the clientele. I'm not a huge fan. I think we talked about this already.

I don't go deep with them, but whenever I listen to them, I feel like, why don't I know this whole band's catalog? Yeah. They just have a very beguiling. very listenable indie rock type sound. If I could be very, that's like the worst description I probably could have come up with with this band. But anyway, they're a really good band. I'm going to check out that album.

I want to talk about an album that actually came out last month, and I wasn't aware of it because it was just on band camp. I came across it this week, and I have been listening to it a ton. It's a new live album by one of my favorite artists, Father John Misty. This was a record that he recorded in Paris back in March. like I said, the album was released on Bandcamp at the end of June. And it's a really fantastic live record. And I know you don't really get into live records Ian. I'm a big live album fan.

Only Robert Poller's relaxation of the asshole. Well, yeah, it goes without saying. But anyway, I think the strength of this album is how it really brings out the songs on the last Father John Misty record, which is Chloe in the next 20th century. which is a really, it's not like an inaccessible record, but there's something about that album, I think having to do with some of like

the old-timey musical references that he's working with that makes it maybe not as immediate as like the other Father John Misty records. And I found listening to this album that the songs from that record really came to life in a way that I don't think they quite do

on the record always. And it's just a reminder that Father John Misty is like, like one of the great, I think, performers in indie rock. And I always feel weird saying indie rock describing Father John Misty because he doesn't really see him of that world anymore. But his band is so good, his voice sounds great, the arrangements are really good. Again, like I think that some of those songs from the last record that maybe felt

maybe a little stiff on record, they don't feel that way at all. They really have an extra kind of muscle to them that I think really does them well. So yeah, I love this record. If you're a fan of him, definitely check out this album. Like me, you felt like I appreciate his last record, but I don't totally love it. I think you will have a different reaction when he listened to this album. And I know for myself, I've gone back to that record after listening to this live album. And it's really kind of made me approach it in a new way.

I also want to say quick, speaking of Father John Misty, you need to go on YouTube and look up a performance that he recently did in New Jersey. I think it was at the Stone Pony where he covered darkness on the edge of town the Bruce Springsteen song and you wouldn't necessarily think okay how was Father John Misty going to take on that song and he fucking nails it it is such a great performance

his band sounds so good they turn into the East Street band for about five minutes it's just fantastic so check out the live record go on YouTube Father John Misty darkness on the edge of town

you won't regret it Yeah I saw Father John Misty tour last year it was on Humphreys by the Bay and yeah it was it really did make this stuff come to life and you realize that also he's like just a really good physical presence as a performer

so yeah I think that like we're maybe not yet but we're maybe a couple years away from like a Father John mystery appraisal like maybe like whatever bad vibes people had about him will dissipate and he'll have like a second or third wind even

I think that's I I would, on the end of cast off-track betting, I would take the odds on that. See, there's no reason for me to reassess because I already think he's great. But yeah, I'd love to see that. I think, I don't know. I feel like most people are still on his side. I think that there is a segment of, well, actually, that's not true. I feel like whenever I talk about him, there's like at least a couple people who have this perception of him that's like locked in 2015.

And I don't know how to get out of that. But yeah, he's going to have a long career. He's going to make a lot of great albums. He's already been around a long time. He just seems like one of those people who's going to be putting on albums when he's 70 and we'll be like, oh, he's still a genius. And at least that's my hope. That about does it for this episode of Indycast.

We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the IndieMix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.