Indiecast - New Music From Father John Misty + Bright Eyes, Plus: Jane's Addiction And The Smiths Melt Down

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

Steven and Ian begin today's episode by reacting to the recent Sean "Diddy" Combs news (1:22), and speculate on whether Get Him To The Greek is the most cancelable movie of all time. From there, they talk about the Father John Misty album announcement, and muse about the Pure Comedy album cycle (8:22). Steven then brings up Ian's great recent profile of Japandroids, which digs deep into the personal backstory of the band ahead of their farewell album (19:07).They also talk about Bright Eyes upon the release of their album, Five Dice, All Threes, and some troubling viral concert moments (30:10). Speaking of viral concert moments, the guys also dig into the recent reunion craziness involving Jane's Addiction and The Smiths (38:30).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the New Zealand emo band Yon Loader and Steven stumps for the latest from Nilüfer Yanya (51:34)New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 207 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On the show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about Japan droids, bright eyes, in reunion craziness with the Smiths and Jane's Addiction. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He is not named in the Sean Diddy Combs indictment.

Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? Yeah, I'm just like wistfully watching the bad boy for life video and you know, Ditty's going to jail. Dave Navarro is in that video. He's like punching out of bandmate. Black Rob has passed away. Jesus. It's like not quite up to the level of get him to the Greek in terms of cursedness.

But yeah, uh, still, man. Well, baby driver too. Oh, yeah. drivers on that list of multiple canceled people being in a movie as if that movie isn't annoying enough you've got that going with it maybe my least favorite movie of the past 10 even 20 years it's rough stuff um we were talking before the show if it's possible to be funny about this sean didy comb story because you read the indictment and it's just awful it is so bad Is he the new king of like horrible musicians?

I mean, right now it's R. Kelly. Yeah. Is Diddy worse? I need to see like a side-by-side list of crimes for both of them. Because, you know, this might be reasoncy bias. I feel like Diddy might be the new king. The king of just horrible musicians. But I don't know.

Am I underselling R. Kelly here? Well, I think most, I think with like Diddy, there's like a greater. galaxy around it uh it's like kind of more of like epstein flare rest like r kelly was like acting alone for the most part um they're all both very very disturbing yeah and you know i i i mean it's but it's also sort of strange because like with ditty it's like he's a musician sure but like he's also kind of not a musician so it's it'll be i you don't have to like read is it okay for me to listen to ready or ready to die it's like well no he only just does like talk in the background so what about i don't know you're gonna put on no way out anytime soon fucking i i mean fuck man victory victory is absolutely

still to this day a part of my workout list so um but the funny part is is that like that song i learned this very recently that um like biggie was doing like reference tracks for diddy on that song and they just kept his reference track so like sometimes they will refer to himself as P Diddy it's a very strange piece of work but yeah I don't think I'll be checking that one out anymore did you see 50 cent doing some petty tweets he made some joke about the the thousand bottles of baby oil that was found I did not I did not see that all I saw was like boozy badass like tweeting about how everyone does this sort of like being like boozy but I did not see 50 cent yeah yeah he was like the king of pettiness 50 cent just just waiting he does best yeah i was like man

50 cent living his best life right now just schadenfreude uh to go but yeah i don't know it's such a terrible story i and it feels like we're not even close to the bottom of it yet it just feels like there's going to be more and more with this guy uh and he's definitely going to prison yeah it seems it may be forever I don't know I can't it's funny his second album

was called forever and most people don't know that but I think it's called forever but either way it's just yeah let's like the more the more you hear about it the worse it gets

and you know like you just I never thought that you would see something like like people like people were always saying oh this is just what's like celebrities do, but at least they're being hell accountable, which, I mean, if that's like the one positive nugget you can take from this, like, so be it.

I mean, are they doing this, though? Reading the indictment, just talking about freakoffs, like, the term freakoffs, like, recurs about a thousand times in this indictment. And they're talking about, like, freakoffs going on for days on end and people needing IVs. Oh, Lord. in the middle of the freak? I mean, come on, like, on some level, this has got to be looked at as not typical pop star behavior.

This seems like, you know, eyes wide shut times like a million. You know, I don't know, it's crazy to me. Maybe I'm naive. I don't know. I'm a babe in the woods. But this seems like, this seems demented and sleazy and awful on a level that we are not accustomed to seeing. Yeah, it's like crossing the line between every DA villainy and cartoonish super villainy. I mean, I just hope this gets like settled and like he goes to jail as soon as humanly possible.

Just so like I don't have to like find out any more of it, you know. I really want to. It's just depressing on like in ways I can't even imagine. Someone needs to do the get him to the Greek oral history or like reflection because I mean, Diddy obviously is the worst part of that movie. be now. Yes. Jonah Hill.

I think he's just accused of being an asshole, basically. Yeah. He's accused of being an asshole. But like Russell Brand is doing like straight up right wing. Like you know those like those conferences where you get like yeah like thought leaders. That's what they might call them. It's like Russell Brand and like a bunch of like, you know, Milo Unopolis type people. Like he's gone from like, hey, I'm just like raising questions to like that right wing circuit.

I don't know who else is in that movie But I remember we were talking about Getting into the Greek And there were like other people involved That were like not If not quite canceled like At least troublesome Yeah like Jeffrey Dahmer plays the comic relief

In that movie And Aziz Ansari's in it too Oh Aziz Ansarii Zsonsari Che J Miller Ellie Kemper even Like Saddam Hussein plays the Wachy boss in that movie I think Osama bin Laden has a cameo

Yeah it's like just a Elizabeth Moss, yeah, she's got like some Scientology ties, man, this like, we don't even have to joke about who's it. Don't put Elizabeth Moss, though. Come on. Let's put her to the side. I was going to say, Russell Brand also has some allegations against him, too.

Oh, that's not just the right way stuff. He's got a bunch of allegations. Kind of want to, we should do an episode and get him to the Greek. Do like a Get him to the Greek special episode. I don't know if I've seen the whole movie. I think I've just seen clips.

I thought it was, I mean, I remember watching it. And this must have been 2011, 2012 thereabouts. I thought it was pretty funny. It was a good line about Cuckaroo. That's what I remember most of all. Is like Woody Allen in it? Like, and Roman Polansky? Like, do they show up at all in that movie? Yeah, maybe they were

like, you know, low-key benefactors behind the scenes. Bill Cosby plays like a college professor in the movie. Harvey Weinstein is in the movie. I think we need to transition to talk about like Jane's addiction beating each other up on stage because like I am like falling into a list. Like the ultimate like cast that could have existed in 2010 and is now completely toxic. I mean that would be a fun thought experiment.

That's definitely the leading contender though. I'll get him to the Greek. Just the anti-critarian collection. That's what that movie's going to go into. We are going to talk about James and the Smiths here in a minute. But I got to talk about something I'm really excited about, which is there is a new Father John Misty album announcement this week. It's called Masha Shana.

I believe I'm saying that correctly. Masha Masha Masha Masha. Zingal Lameduni, like, well, Secret Samadhi. I don't know, man. The new single out, Screamland, which I think is pretty great. I mean, I'm a Father John Misty Homer. I've actually had this album for a while

and we'll talk about it when it comes out I believe it drops right before Thanksgiving November 22nd which thank you for the content Josh Tillman there's not a lot to talk about at that time of the year and we'll talk about the album when it comes out but I'll just say having heard it that if you are hoping for a return to like the early Misty I think you're going to dig this record

I don't want to talk too much about it, but I do feel like there's some like fear fun meets pure comedy vibes to this record. There's, you know, the music's very grand. There's sort of an apocalyptic feel to the record a little bit. Some, of course, low-key humor going on. And you hear that in the single. I think the single's really good. And I liked his last record, Chloe, in the next 20th century.

But that felt like a little bit of a stylistic turn. this feels like, you know, red meat for the Father John Misty community out there. So I'm excited about it. Are you into this at all? Again, I feel like you're kind of more hit and miss with Father John Misty. Did you hear the song? Yeah, I heard the song and, you know, I'm making the shack like I was unfamiliar with your game sort of face because it's very like, and I mean this like in a complimentary question mark kind of way where it was like mid 2010's Coachella. I saw someone mention it like just no context.

It kind of sounds like Imagine Dragons. That being said, like I was, I know. Just the chorus, maybe. Yeah, just the chorus. But, um, yeah. Come on. Was that like a shot? Were they taking a shot at that or was that a, I think it was just like,

it was just like it's like, I don't know whether it's good or bad, but like it just sort of sounds like Imagine Dragons. And again, like, I think it was just like not sure how I feel about it yet. I was under the impression that like clowing the next 20th century was you know kind of where things were going for Father John Misty you know where he's just kind of run out the like just doing these sort of soulful jazzy like completely off the spectrum of like what's happening but I do like the fact that this does sound not like he's trying to like re-center himself in the conversation but that he's going to be trying to do something.

something more down the middle, more festival friendly. Like I do like the, the cert, like, there's a curiosity to it. You know, I have the album, haven't heard it yet. Because I've been doing like just so many fucking, like, articles about music that existed 10 or 15 years ago. But I do, I'd also appreciate the fact that he's dropping it when we are almost certain to have nothing new to talk about on any cast. Yeah.

And look, I'm a father John Nistie Homer, so I am predisposed to being receptive to what he does. I know that there's people out there who just knee-jerk don't like him. I do feel like a lot of that is leftover residual feeling from the pure comedy press cycle, which for me is a Hall of Fame press cycle of the 21st century. You know, if I was going to rank press cycles, that might be my number one. I just feel like he was in a, like, early 2010's Kanye West mode in terms of interviews. Like, back in the days, like, when Kanye would drop an interview, and it was all anyone talked about. And, you know, no one can remember this now because, you know, Kanye West, you know, speaking of cancel.

Maybe he wasn't getting him to the Greek. He might have well, Ben. He was probably in that movie, too. But there was a time where he was easily the most interesting musician around. And he would do interviews and you would just be glued to it. every line would become a meme. It was just a great time for interviews. And Josh Tillman, he had that same run, I think, with the pure comedy.

And even before that, I mean, he was always just like a funny, interesting, provocative person. And then he stopped. He hasn't done an interview really in like, what, seven years. And he's not doing interviews, I think, for this album. Believe me, I bast. I was told no, but maybe he'll say yes. I think he listens to this show So Josh, if you're listening, please let me talk to you

It would be a great conversation But to me, that's like for me as a music journalist That's like the oasis reunion of interviews You know, the thing I am looking forward to That I don't know if it's going to happen I feel like it's going to happen eventually But I want it to happen Because look, people would complain about his interviews

But let's be real. Most musician interviews, boring as hell Yeah Do we really need to crucify the people who are interesting? I mean, that always happens and it's so predictable. You know, we reward people for being boring and we punish them for being interesting. And it's such a bass, awkward thing, especially coming from people in the media. People in the media who complained about that kind of thing, I think are insane. You know, like, Maddie Healy annoys me.

I want him to do a million interviews because he's interesting. I want people like that to be talking. I don't want to read the same old interviews where they're giving the same three or four anecdotes in every interview and it's boring as hell. Give me the bomb throwers. I want more of that in music.

So please, Josh, come back. Come back to us. We're begging you. The music media is dying as it is. Maybe you're trying to wait us out. Maybe you're hoping that we die. And then maybe you'll do some interviews. I don't know.

But please come back, Josh. We need you. Or maybe he's going to do the Beyonce thing where he like he picks someone to interview. and he like takes over, I don't know, like GQ pitchfork or he does like a Beyonce style like email interview. I don't think he'd be more fun than that. But I'm just like fingers crossed.

It's like every time you get like a sense that Andre 3000 is going to start rapping again. And then he drops like an 80 minute flute album. But like he'll give you like a one verse on like a Frank Ocean record or something like that. You know, this is how I feel about it. Yeah. There's got to be something nice about people. begging you to do something. Like Billy Joel, hated by music critics forever.

And now he hasn't made a record in 30 years. And people are just like, Billy Joel make an album. And he's like, no, I'm not going to do it. And he got Father John Misty, just an all-time interview giver. And now he's like, no, I don't want to do it. And look, it's good for him. I'm sure for his own mental health, just staying out of that game is a very positive development. So on that count, I'd be like, just keep staying away.

but greedily as a music journalist I just want him to talk this is a little bit of a tangent I'm just going to throw this out there this is probably like a larger conversation that we could probably devote a whole episode to but 2024 pretty great year for music I feel like this is the best year of the decade

and maybe even beyond this decade do you have that sense at all I mean like 2016 is just the benchmark for me Right. Yeah, but I think this year is, it is, it's really interesting. And it's go like, even if it's not my favorite out on the year, I feel like Brat has had an impact that like no other album has in the 2020s. Like, you can see that as like, oh, yeah, when we look back on this decade, it's, you know, that's got to be like a top five or whatever.

But yeah, there's been a lot of stuff I've really enjoyed. Is it, yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't feel like, I think 2020. was I might have liked that more, but I haven't really, I have not thought about like top fives or top tens much this year. I've just like not been super in list mode yet. So I believe you on that front. I think there's a claim to be made and I'm not confident enough to like say it outright. I mean, for just records I like, I just feel like there's so many this year. And an exciting part about it is that I feel like the best records are being made by artists who are like on their first, second, or third album.

Like, there's an emerging generation of people who are really coming into their own. And it does feel like a potential changing of the guard type year. Because, you know, you do have the Taylor Swift's and Beyonce's that put out records this year. And like Charlie XX, she's not like a new artist or anything. But I don't know.

And obviously, MJ Lenderman and people like that who I'm a huge fan of. I don't know. We need to talk about this more in depth later on, But I think that this year is really strong. And I think there's something to be said about years that end in four. Always being interesting, either as a great music year or as a year where you start to feel things change. I think if you look back, that's true of a lot of years ending in four.

Because it's like you're in the middle of the decade now. You know, like 2020, that's still the 2010s, really. And you kind of have some hangover from the previous decade. But now to like we're kind of fully into a new decade. decade now and you're starting to see like what the 2020s maybe are going to look like that's my sense maybe we should talk about that later on I just want to throw that out there though yeah absolutely I mean I think it's definitely better than you know I feel I feel more strongly about what the output of this year than I do like the previous two and you know I'm

writing a bunch of 10 year and 20 year anniversary pieces this year so yeah 2004 major uh 2014 also incredible. I would say though the 2005 I would take that over 2004 not 15 over 14 though 94 great year 84 historically great year I'll take your word for it because I'm just saying your year's ending in four there's some powerful mojo some numerology going on with that I think I need to develop this theory but I think that's a I think there's something to it um let's talk about Japanroids. Ian, you wrote a profile of Japan droids for StereoGum this week. I thought you did a great job. Really interesting article. Of course, Japanroids, they're putting out their final record, fear and alcohol. Fate and alcohol. Fate and alcohol. Well, it should be called fear and alcohol.

It should be called fear and alcohol based on your article, I think. But it's called fate and alcohol. It comes out in October, I think, on the 18th. I believe it's October 18th. I believe it's October 18th. that record's dropping. In your article, it's really interesting. I mean, I think you did a good job of showing the arc of this band from their early days where they were just hanging out all the time and they were this kind of hard partying band and how that changed over the years. And now they're just like two guys in their 40s who like never hang out anymore.

And, you know, it was an interesting commentary on the band. I also thought as I was reading it that you could probably write this article about any number of indie bands that had a moment in the early 2010s and then looking at them now. I wonder how many other bands have the same story where, yeah, we were bros a dozen years ago and now we live thousands of miles apart. We never hang out. Maybe we get together for a photo shoot every five years, but that's it. And really, you could say that it's not even just bands.

That's just like friend groups, you know, like, you. You got your pal that you had before you were married when you're going out to bars all the time. And now, you know, you're married and you're having a kid and your life's way different. So I thought that was interesting. Brian King, the lead guy in Japan droids, the main songwriter, very interesting guy. Your article really nails down, like, how this is such a weird band in a lot of ways. Because I don't think there's a greater disconnect between how people hear their music and how the music is made. people that love Japan droids, like you put on Celebration Rock and you're like,

oh, it just sounds like these guys got together in a room with a six-pack and bashed this out in a half hour. And the reality is that they're more like Steely Dan. Like they're recording like a million takes of every song, taking forever. I think you had the detail in your story where you say that Celebration Rock could have come out like a few years later, but like they had a deadline and it had to come out when it came out. And it's almost an accident that that record came out as well as it did. And I mean, I thought it was funny too.

I don't know if you did this or if the band did it. Like they compared their third record to be here now, which like the scale will be here now versus like the scale of a Japanjoids record. I think very different. But again, just the weird perfectionism of this band while also being like a very imperfect sounding band. I don't know. it's such a weird, fascinating disconnect to me. So, I mean, those were my takeaways reading your story.

Again, I thought you did a great job, really good article. What was it like writing this? We talked as you were working on this. It was kind of an interesting process doing it. I don't know how much you want to get into that, but, yeah, what are your feelings on the story? Well, I mean, Brian compared it to be here now. Like, there's a detail which I love. The one piece that almost like justified doing the entire thing, like going to Detroit,

interviewing him, spending like six hours kicking it and doing all the other interviews is that when I met their publicist in like 2016, she showed me this text from Brian King saying, yeah, tell Ian we're making our white pony. And I'm thinking like, okay, like whatever. They're just joking. They know I like deaf tones. And like Brian is a super deaf tones fan. That was like, I'm like, oh, great.

Now we have a piece. But yeah, I mean, I knew about how perfectionist they were, but like not the extent to which they were perfectionist. And also just like getting a real sense of sadness from Dave about how I don't like, I think that they're not totally on the same page as far as like they what they want for the future of the band like Brian. And, you know, I very exhaustively detail how he's like trying to, you know, start a new life for himself. and, you know, Dave is still kind of the rock guy. But, you know, one of the things I'm glad I didn't get into was how, you know, you were saying this could be about any friend group. When Celebration Rock turned 10 or 20, yeah, 10 years old, I, like, visited my college friends

and we did our 20-year reunion at college. And just, like, hearing that album amidst, like, how our friendships evolve and how, like, distance changes how people feel about each other and you're just not on the same page anymore and it's not like it's just what life is like and that's really what i wanted to get across with this where it's not necessarily i barely talk about the new record but it i think the reason it resonated to the degree it didn't also if like you read it and you you know got at me saying how much you appreciate it like that's super meaningful i was like scared to fucking death putting this thing out like it was the first big boy journalism feature I've done probably in like 12 years.

But I think just people see how they're like Japan droids are a vector through which to understand male friendship. And I know that's like been a critique of the band for a while. It's like, oh, this is just dudes making dude music for dudes. But it's like, yeah, it is a mirror for people to evaluate their own friendships and, you know, what they want out of life and how, you know, you get older and you still want to do the same things and I think that the most resonant part was how

Japan Joys were talking about like if you go see that band like you're going to get fucked up, you're going to get hungover and then you go back to work but they have to do it night after night after night after night and just seeing the impact that had on those two yeah it's just

I mean I know this stuff was going on behind the scenes but putting 50 I've been writing this article for like 15 years you know what I mean and like the male friend friendship stuff. I mean, that's an interesting topic. It's an important topic. I wrote about this when I reviewed the MJ Linderman record because I think he's really good at writing about that kind of stuff too. And it's like, we're in a country right now where there's like an epidemic of like men under 50 killing themselves.

Like that's the leading cause of death for men under 50. You know, like this is an important thing. Like the ability to connect with other people. It's something that like men have a big. problem with. And I think that's a valid thing to write about and just sort of roll your eyes at it. I think it's such a lazy, reactive thing to it. And it's such a music critic type thing to do, because you can, it's something you can do to score points on Twitter. You know, that's all that is, but it's not really a smart observation to make at all, I think, in relation to that. And I think that is one of the most interesting parts of your article and probably one of the more interesting things about Japan droids and I think

looking at this upcoming record that's maybe a good framework with which to look at that album I mean I guess we'll wait until the album comes out to talk about it right I mean we don't want to review it yet but I am curious to see how that album

is received I'm not super optimistic that's going to be well reviewed but we'll see yeah I think what I think honestly just give it given the, you know, obstacles that went into writing this piece, because, you know, like, they don't do interviews. Like, this was the first one they'd done in, like, four years, and I don't think they're doing any more. It's like, I think that this record, uh, especially given the reception of Chicago,

I would have maybe considered just surprise releasing it, you know, like just, here it is, this is our last album. Um, hope you like it and just kind of ride that way of excitement. Uh, But, you know. Well, especially since they're not touring. Yeah, exactly. So having this big buildup and then you're not going to tour, I don't know. And then if you're not going to really do interviews. But I don't know.

We'll see what happens. But wish them the best. Yeah, it does feel like, I think there's a quote in your story where Dave, the drummer, is like, I wish I could be on the road playing drums all over the world. I was like, oh, that's kind of sad. Because it seems like Brian is not in that place at all. So yeah and Dave's booking this uh he this up that he's like the booker at this uh place called rickshaw theater in vancouver and the night of uh the record release for japan droids uh bowling for soup is playing that venue you know it's like god like you do imagine like a japan droids like there's like one last thing but yeah it's like there is no fucking shot of them touring no like it is over so yeah yeah i don't know it And if they did tour, would it be weird?

You know, they seem like a band. I mean, they were never like a consistent live band to begin with. But, like, the best time I saw them was at South by Southwest in 2010, like, playing behind an art gallery. You know, and they played for a half hour, and it was like a really good show. And, like, the rural Alberta, God, can't even say this band title, Rural Alberta Advantage. Oh, hell yeah. Hell yeah. That band, man.

Fucking hometowns. That is an Indycats. Hall of Famer. There's some serious rural juror with that band name, by the way. It's like a lot of rurs

all in the same name. But anyway, yeah, that was a great show. I like that your article too had some, like, music writer beefs that Brian King has, including with you.

Yeah. I think I'm cool with them. I was on their tour bus once when they were on Celebration Rock, when I did the Celebration Rock episode with Japanroids. I was on the tour.

They had like a big tour bus for that. third record. And it already kind of felt like this tour bus is too big, maybe for this tour. You know, but it was like at the beginning of the tour. And I don't know if they had a tour bus for Celebration Rock, but. Nah, that was like a bit. That was like more of like a van.

I would think so. Yeah. Yeah. Because they signed to anti, right? They were on anti records. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, you know, near to the wild hour life was there be here now.

So you can't have a tour bus before you make be here now. Well, actually, you know, like, OAS has had like fucking private jets at that point, but relatively speaking. Absolutely. But anyway, check out Ian's story on stereo gum. It's really good. Really good music journalism. Boots on the ground music journalism. So kudos to you, Ian.

More Ian Cohen content coming to Up Rocks. Maybe going up Friday, might be up Monday. You wrote about the best songs by Bright Eyes. Best albums. Best albums. Yeah, we're ranking the albums. Yeah. Are you doing solo records, too, or just bright eyes?

There's going to be an insert about solo albums because, like, you know, there's the bright eyes, you know, project, and then there's Connor's solo stuff, and then the splits and Monsters of Folk and the Mystic Valley band. I mean, I wanted to just be albums, so it didn't get too, you know, two out of sorts. And I wanted it to be albums because, like, songs would take me fucking forever. Yeah. Well, looking forward to reading that. And you're doing this, of course, because there's a new bright-eyes record out today called Five Dice All Threes.

Did you rank that album? I did. Okay. I haven't heard it yet. Do you like it? I like it more than the previous album. Down in the weeds where the world's once was, what that record was called. That came out in 2020.

Yeah, like August 2020, like peak pandemic. I interviewed. Right at the beginning of our show. That was like all the first things we talked about on Indycast. Yeah. I think the first thing we talked about was the 10-year anniversary of the suburbs. Oh, man. Historic app.

Yeah. And, you know, I interviewed, like, that was a real bucket list one. I was, like, in, like, the closet of, like, the place I used to work at. And, yeah, I mean, that, he did, like, an enormous press circuit for that. Like, everyone got to interview Connor Ober's for that one. And, yeah, I mean, it was a comeback album. It was comfort food. you know, when we really needed it.

But, you know, this one, I hear him, like, singing, like, real fast over, like, distorted acoustic guitars. I'm like, oh, we're fucking back, man. But, yeah, it's not all that different from the previous one. Like, Flea's not on it. I don't think he is. I forgot that Flea was on there. Yeah.

Oh, man. Doing slap bass on, I believe it was one and done. Plus, the drummer from Mars Volta. But, yeah, this one is, you know, the more of the classic. bright-eyes sound. You know, more urge. It's like kind of the classic follow-up to the comeback album where, you know, it's like there got some momentum.

There's a little more urgency. And there's no real agenda to it. It's just like, oh, bright-eyes music. I dig it, you know? Maybe some reasons he buys. We'll see how much I return to it. But, I mean, you want to talk about erratic live bands. I'm like, yeah, right now there's a, there's a, I think this album's kind of being

overshadowed by some pretty worrisome recent developments in the bright eyes camp there was this show in cleveland that they did that went viral where he was like just basically barely able to stand and it's like just really grim like reddit commenters are you know using terms like late stage alcoholism to describe it plus yeah because like a few days before he did this interview where he talked about like there's an Elon Musk reference on the record and he brought that up and you know, Grimes and he just figured, oh, he's just being this like, you know, enfantirable or how you pronounce that in interviews. But it's, I mean, he goes through waves with this stuff.

They canceled their Riot Fest performance. I'm hoping he, you know, gets the help he needs. But, I mean, the record's good. I don't know if it'll be as well received as down in the weeds. But I actually enjoy it more. Yeah, I was thinking about this because I saw the Cleveland thing. and I feel like there's a show at least once a year lately that goes viral because Conor Oberst was wasted on stage

and it just goes into the shitter. Like I think there was a show in Dallas last year or maybe 2022 that had a similar just train wreck quality to it. And it just made me think about bright-eye shows I've seen over the years. And I saw them on the Casadega too, I remember. This was like 2007. I think it was the first show of the tour.

And if you remember that tour, like everyone on stage was dressed in white, and he had a really big band. He had his regular band, and then there was almost like a little orchestra on stage right. And this dude was like on acid, apparently, and like he charged the orchestra at one point, just like walked right into them.

And I heard stories the next day that he was like out in traffic after the show, like walking up to cars and like knocking on the windows Just like crazy behavior. So there is an element to him where he's always acted like this a little bit. I mean, what's alarming now is that he's a guy in his 40s. And he looks like he's in rough shape. It's different when you're doing this in your 20s versus your 40s.

It just hits differently. You can say, oh, the guy in his 20s, he's just like a rock star. But when you're in your 40s and you're out of control, you just look like an old guy who's out of control. So, yeah, hopefully he's okay. he's a very talented guy I mean I'm definitely a fan of his um love the whole bright eyes catalog

he definitely has that arc that I love of like all the classic singer songwriters of you know coming from the 60s and 70s where he has great records he has records that aren't as good but like the less good records are still pretty interesting because he's just an interesting guy

um I think it's hilarious that you hate I'm wide awake it's morning so much because to me that's such an undeniable mid-2000s indie rock record. Like if you're looking at the canon, you know, the go-to records of that time. To me, that's like up there with everything else. I would personally rather listen to that record today than like funeral. I've never been a huge funeral person. You know, I know you just recently, that's another album you wrote about recently. I think that was for Stereo Gum 2. But like to me, I'm one of a week. It's a lot of

morning, it's like right up there with any of the sort of benchmark touchstone go-to records of that time. But you hate that record. You look at that as like his sellout record, right? Not even so much like sellout. And is it the, do I call it the worst bright eyes album on my list? You'll have to check out. Oh my God. You won't. You wouldn't dare. Actually, you would dare. But that's crazy. You're crazy, man. Hey, I mean, like, I, I, I, I don't think, like, we've, I don't think either of us have, like, you know, real, like, scorching hot takes like that one. But, like, I just, look, if I'm right, I'm ranking bright eyes out. There's going to be obviously a lot of subjectivity here.

Right. But. You're like Cheryl Swoops, and that record is Caitlin Clark at this point. That's where we're at with that record in you. I love it. I'm such a fucking hater with this. I love that you have, you're not back and down. I love it.

I respect it, even though I, I, confounded by it, but I love it. Yeah. I also think it's, the one thing that, like, stood out with this is that it's been like, I don't know, 15, 17 years since I've, like, really love the bright-eyes album, and yet I'm still a bright-eyed guy. And, you know, that makes me feel a little bit like, you know, when I see you make lists where it's like, yeah, I don't love all this person's music, but like, I've internalized it and can rank it. So, yeah, like, I think the last ones I truly love, loved were like paola the last sara parasito salam and ruminations the solo record he'd in 2016 but not salutation

the ones were polished it up no and he does and if you want to rip on him wide awake it's morning i think you can make the case that that's the beginning of him going into that sort of slicked up americana lane yeah that he really embraced like with the mystic valley band and i i don't find that as intriguing as a lot of his work but i do think that i'm way to wake it's morning it's it's enough of a happy medium between that Americana stuff and being like a more polished version of fevers and mirrors. So to me, it's like the happy medium there. But I get where you're coming from with that. Well, as we teased earlier in the episode, we're going to talk a little bit about Jane's Addiction and the Smiths.

They're both in the news this week. And we have reunion craziness or like want-to-be reunion craziness here. Let's talk about Jane's Addiction first. You might have seen video online. I guess this was last weekend. I think it was like right after we recorded. And it was Perry Farrell and Dave Navarro on stage with Jane's Addiction. And I think it's like the complete classic lineup.

Yeah. Because they toured with like smashing pumpkins recently. But I don't think that was like the full on. I don't know. Navarro wasn't there for that. Which I saw, well, I saw part of that show. And it was a bummer because Navarro is my guy. In that band, he's my favorite.

And I think he's a legitimately great guitar player in Jane's Addiction. Nothing shocking. Ritual Deelot habitual. He's just wanking off on guitar on like five minutes solos. It's amazing. He's a deadhead. He was great. He was like Jimmy Page of alternative rock.

And to me, he's like one of the big squandered talents of all time. Like, he's a guy who should be one of the great guitar players. And in a way, he still is, but, like, I don't know. Jane's Addiction in general kind of blew it. They should have been a band that was made, like, seven or eight great records. But anyway, you can see why that didn't happen this week, because Perry Farrell, Dave Navarro, they get into a fight on stage. Apparently, it was because Navarro's guitar was too loud. That's what I heard.

That there was some... And, like, Perry Farrell, too, like, he had some voice problems on one of the earlier. shows and there were reports that he was maybe drunk on stage. He's like 65 years old, by the way. He's significant. Yeah, and he's significantly older than like the other guys in the band, which is, yeah, I did a Sunday review of nothing shocking a few years ago and I read the entire oral history of Jane's addiction and you just kind of see like how, it's shocking that Perry Farrell doesn't get his ass kicked every single day. Yeah, I don't know. He's a character. But anyway, they got into this fight.

The video went viral. And then the next day or the day after that, the tour was canceled. Yeah. The least surprising news ever. So. Well, they put out a new song as well. Isn't it called, like, love is in the title. Yeah.

Like true love or all love, something like that. I'm not going to listen to it. But, like, actually, this thought just came to me. Have you ever listened to Dave Navarro's solo album? Is that Deconstruction? It came at, like, I remember playing it when I worked at the radio station back in like 2001, 2002. And I think that's what it was called. But, yeah, trust no one.

Trust no one. That's the one. That was 2001. Okay, yeah, because he was in a band with Eric Avery, like right after James called Deconstruction. Yes, that's, yes. Yeah. So, but, yeah, this is like a proper solo record for Navarro, which I have not heard. And I'm sure it's amazing.

the the oh my god the uh the first single rexol like i don't even want to spoil it but you need to hear the chorus it's like one of one of the funniest like faux serious poetry okay fuck it i'll just say it's like uh i haven't heard this song in 23 years but it's like i believe it's like there's no left in your eyes there is love left in your thighs i believe that is the core it's if it's not that it's like it does rhyme eyes with thighs that's what you need to know They're like, I mean, Jane's addiction, they're like, I'm trying to think of like an example of, you know, someone who's like an outlaw and they've never gone to prison. But like you know all the crimes they've committed. But for some reason, like the police won't do anything.

Like that's what Jane's addiction is. Yeah. They have so many crimes. You know, you want to talk about people being canceled. I mean, like when I saw Jane's open for James for Smashing Pumpkins, apparently for all is bringing strippers on. on stage. Like doing like a burlust show during like one of the songs. It might have been three days. And like, you know, no one else but Perry Farrell could do that in the 2020s. You know, there's this, it's like, okay, yeah, we know he's guilty, but we're not going to press charges, you know, and God love him.

You know, good for him. But I don't know. He's evaded authorities for years, that guy. Yeah. He's just like, how does he keep getting away with this stuff? But like, I mean, I think that's just kind of why it's perhaps better that Jane's addiction ended how and when they did. Oh, they're coming back, though. Come on. You don't think they're going to come back? They'll come back. And maybe this was just all kind of a stunt for like the new record. Because like I wouldn't put any of that shit past Perry Farrell. Like he is kind of a like a mastermind of marketing more so than music. The PT Barnum of LA Sleas Rock. Yeah. Again, I would highly recommend. It's such a quick read. It's called Hors and the oral history.

And I love the fact it's like of Perry Forell and Jane's addiction because like it's the book begins and ends with Jane's addiction, but it's like Perry Forel and Jane's addiction. Right. So you got some porno papyros in there and Palau Paloosa stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good read.

And then, okay, so now we have the Smiths two who have not gotten back together, but there have been stories about them coming back together. and I'll read from the stereo gum story on this. Last month, Morrissey claimed that the Smiths had received a huge offer for a reunion tour and that he was willing to do it, but that his former band made Johnny Marr, quote, ignored the offer. Last week, Morrissey further claimed that Marr was blocking the release of a Smith's greatest hits album, which God knows we need another Smith's greatest hits album. You know, no one has ever collected the hits of the Smiths on an album before.

we've waited years for this. I mean, they have more greatest hits albums than albums. Yeah, way more. Or like compilations or... Right. It is not a very clean discography. No, it's pretty shameless. Now Morrissey says that Marr has acquired the rights to the Smith's name.

In a statement posted on Marcy's website last night, someone representing Morrissey wrote that Marr's trademark application for the Smith's had been accepted and that he could theoretically lead... And this could theoretically need to Mar in another lineup touring as the Smiths. So, which by the way is, I love this idea. Johnny Marr, maybe get John Mayer in there. You know, John Mayer, he's always playing with old rock bands. Maybe John Mayer can be like the Morrissey.

Yeah, he can do both, man. He can be Morrissey and Johnny Marr. That's true. That's true. Get Flea on bass and maybe Jason Bonham on drums. That could be the new Smiths. I don't know if you saw this, but like Gene Simmons weighed in on this. I did not.

You didn't see this. Okay, so apparently Gene Simmons and Morrissey are friends. That sounds about right. That's amazing. It's so good. And Simmons, he didn't interview, I think, with Forbes, where he was encouraging Morrissey to form his own smiths and sing the songs because he's like, no one cares about the guitar player. He said, get rid of the guitar player and get somebody else.

Nobody cares. They just want to hear the songs. I keep saying this over and over again. Should I do this in a Gene Simmons voice? I don't know what that voice is, but it's like, if I was like Paul Stanley or like Ace Free, like what I do, like shots fired. I'm just going to be like, if you go down the street and with all due respect to Johnny Marr, you go down the street and ask the general person, who's Johnny Marr?

They don't know who you're talking about here. That's my Gene Simmons impression. Thank you. So I love Gene Simmons has a take on this. This is what I want to ask you. the smiths obviously a beloved band of the 80s what is their window for a comeback because obviously if they came back there would be people that cared

but are they going to do like the oasis thing where it crosses over to like where young people want to see it or is it all going to be like 50 year old people and like the queen is dead t-shirts and that's it like because i feel like 10 years ago it might have been different you know they felt like they maybe could have even headlined a coach chella or something. I don't think they could do that now. Or if they did, I don't think they would draw at a place like that. But am I wrong on that? I think you're wrong on that. Because like, you know, maybe I'm just like biased by living in Southern California where

Oh, the Morrissey thing. Yeah, I've seen Morrissey headline festivals like, uh, and yeah, the Smiths to me are like just a, a band with like whose fan base is like just a renewable resource. Like it is like a right of passage to be into the Smiths. I do, would it, now, here's a thought I had. Would a Joy Division with a different singer be a bigger draw than the Smith? I think I see a lot more Joy Division T-shirts. I don't know if people listen to him, but like, I mean, because, you know, Peter Hook, I think he plays pretty fast and loose with his band's back catalog.

Oh, and him and, uh, and Joy Division, but. Him and Bernard Sumner hate each other. Yeah. They fucking hate each other. So I don't see that happening. But I don't know. My instinct is that the Smiths would be bigger, especially if it was Morrissey and Marr.

Yeah. Because with all due respect to Gene Simmons, the people who like the Smiths would care if Johnny Marr wasn't there. And I also think they would care if Morrissey wasn't there. Like, you need those two guys. The rhythm section maybe isn't as important. One of them passed away recently. I think Andy Rourke died recently.

But yeah, you need those. two guys for sure. I think for a Smith's reunion to work. I also can't imagine Morrissey getting into a fist fight, so I think that they'd be able to tough it out, you know. Also, I love the fact that Gene Simmons and him are friends because, like, you know, like we know what Gene Simmons thinks about, you know, the rock and roll lifestyle, whereas like Morrissey is like famously, you know, asexual and, like, doesn't drink or eat meat. But I think it's just how, like, old rich guys, they just, those are the, That's like their friend group. Right.

And he probably read a story on Fox News that Morrissey was quoted in. And he's probably like, hey, this is my kind of guy. I want to hang out with this guy. Yeah, that's a reality show I want to see. Like Morrissey and Gene Simmons having dinner and talking. Because I mean, where would you even go to eat? You know, because you can't go to like a vegan restaurant. Yeah.

You go to Gene Simmons rock and roll. I can't remember the name of it, but I did interview Gene Simmons. He was opening up this hard rock cafe rip-off that he got sued by Rolling Stone for because they stole his font. It's it's an insane piece. Go look it up. I wrote it for rolling stone.com as he reminded me. He said that. It's like, oh, it's like, oh, here's Ian Cohen from Rolling Stone. He said, rolling stone. He said, rollingstone.com. I'm like, damn. But yeah, it was one of the most bizarre things I've ever written about. And like, you read that article in 2012, And it really sets the it jet.

Like, he was basically, like, make America great again before it existed. Yeah. It's a frightening artifact of 2012. I once interviewed Paul Stanley, like a long time ago for the AV Club, probably about 20 years ago. He was touring behind a solo record called, I believe it was called Play to Win. That is an extremely Paul Stanley. I trust you on that. Let me, I'm just going to go to this quick.

I'm pretty sure it was played. I know, I know like win was in the title. And let's say, live to win was the name of the record. Play to win would have been better. That would have been like in 1985 Paul Stanley solo album title. That came out in 06, the second solo album from Paul Stanley. He was a nice guy. I liked him.

I like Paul Stanley. He's like the nice guy in Kiss. Gene Simmons is like the prick. and then Paul Stanley is the nice guy. He's like progressive now too. Like he'll drop a tweet about abortion rights or something. You know, like something like that every now and then. So, yeah.

Shout to Paul Stanley. Yeah. Shout out to Paul Stanley. We've now reached a part of our episode that we call a Recommendation Corner where we talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? Yeah, so, you know, Tiny Engines, the resurgent label based out of North Carolina,

once again coming through with autumnal emo, which is, I mean, it's September 20th, like just one week ago in San Diego, like on a Monday. It was like 101 degrees. Now it's getting down below 60 at night. So the time is right. Let's bust out our Rolemeck Sweeters and listen to Jan Loder's self-titled. Jan Loder, believe they're a New Zealand act. And I think they were in a band that I remember hearing called Carb on Carb.

But anyway, they got a self-titled album. It came out last Friday. and long story short, recommended if you like Rhine or Maria or Maria. I still know how to fucking pronounce that band or poet. But either way, if you know who I'm talking about, that's really all there is to it. It's just very kind of sweet and mathy and poetic.

You've got the dynamic between the male and female singers. Not a lot. Not a lot to report. Just like if the words autumnal emo mean anything to you, you're going to like this. They do. That sounds like it could be good. The name, it's not spelled this way.

It's spelled Y-O-N, then Loder, like Lode, like Metallica Lode. Yes. When he said Yon Loder, it made me think of Yon Winter and Kurt Loder. Like, there's maybe some music journalist reference going on there. I wonder if there is, let's get back to us, Jan Loder, if you're out there. I wonder if you're kind of doing a little rock critic joke there. I want to talk about a record that we talked about a bit last week in reference. to the fancy draft that I'm losing horribly. It's the record from Nullifer Yanya called My Method

Actor. And I've been really into this record for the past week. It came out last Friday. And I came on board with her with her previous record. It was called Painless. It came out in 2022. That was one of my top 10 favorite records of that year. And this record, I don't like quite as much as painless. Painless is just like loaded with bangers. So many just great songs on that album. This album has a lot of great songs as well. It's a little more laid back, I think, than Painless.

More of like a moody, introspective type album. So it doesn't quite grab you, I think, in quite the same way as the previous record does, but it's still really good. And she's just really good at what she does. And what she does basically is make radiohead sounding music, maybe even even. better than the smile at this point. You know, if you love that kind of 2000s-era radio head, you know, the point between like Hailed the Thief and in Rainbows, she really minds that vein very well.

Very kind of, again, electronic rock with great atmospherics. She has like a cool sounding voice pretty laid back. Not like Tom York doesn't have that sort of operatic thing that he does. But just a really cool record. And this record is getting really well reviewed. Again, it's one of the many, many, many good records that have come out in 2024, and I like it a lot. So check it out. Nelifer, Yanya, my method actor.

Yeah, I like it, too. It's really for me about the way she plays guitar. That reminds me of Radiohead. Very Johnny Greenwood, like weird fishes. If you like that, style of guitar and Radiohead, yeah, this is an artist who's just going to put out, like, 85s on Metacritics for the rest of her life. I see, you know, this is. Is she just really good at what she does? Yeah, yeah, and just killed me in the fantasy draft.

I like this record so much that I can even overlook that. So that should tell you a lot. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week,

and we'll send it directly to your email by. box.