Indiecast - New Music From Lucy Dacus + The Rilo Kiley Reunion

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

Steven and Ian open with a discussion of the recent Robbie Williams' biopic Better Man, in which the British singer is portrayed by a CGI monkey (2:09). Shockingly, the movie didn't catch on at the box office. They also do a quick Sportscast on the Eagles beating the Packers (9:24), and an even quicker Politics-cast on the upcoming inauguration (17:03). Then, finally, they get down to talking about music, touching on the new Lucy Dacus album announcement (25:20), the Rilo Kiley reunion (37:58), and the re-release of the classic rock documentary Dig! (48:13).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the "nu-blog rock" band Lots Of Hands and Steven stumps for the singer-songwriter Todd Snider (57:42).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 222 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On the show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we view albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about a new album announcement from Lucy Dacus, the reunion of Riloh-Kiley and the re-release of the great, great, great rock documentary, Dig. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He really liked the CGI monkey Robbie Williams movie.

Ian Cohen. and who are you? So it's got me thinking once again about a great The Onion headline that came out about like a month after 9-11. A Shattered Nation longs to care about stupid bullshit again. And I mean, you could argue that we are where we are in 2025 because all we care about is stupid bullshit. But with all the all like the just the moralizing shit that's happening in the world, this Robbie Williams monkey movie flopped conversation in 2025 in 2025 is really hitting the spot for me. I feel like it's a, it's a real unifying force. And I also love the fact that we're having,

can Robbie Williams break America? It's like, I heard a podcast with someone writing a book about, you know, Y2K and like how it's predicting the current day. And they were asking, they were thinking like maybe we're going to relive 1999 as like a cynical, apolitical time. And I'm glad that like we are just doing the same conversations back then as we are now, just without the techno-optimism and the booming economy.

Well, it's not exactly the same because in 99, they did not make a movie about Robbie Williams with a CGI monkey. I mean, I don't even know if we had CGI in 1990. There were other forms of special effects, but we weren't yet dreaming of the day when British pop stars would be portrayed by, I was going to say, animatronic monkeys. That actually would have been a better movie.

Yeah, like a Chuckie Cheese type thing. I would have done that. But for those who don't know what we're talking about, and you probably don't because this movie flop at the box office, but there was a movie that came out last week called Betterman. And it's not a movie about Eddie Better. That's where my mind goes if someone says Better Man. I'm thinking Pearl Jam,

and not just because I wrote a book about Pearl Jam, but because I'm an American. I feel like most people associate that phrase with Pearl Jam. But apparently there is a Robbie Williams song also called Better Man. Anyway, this is a apparently, a biopic about Robbie Williams who again as a British pop star

he was in the boy band Take That and then he had a successful solo career mostly in Europe I think his song Angels was a hit in America I just remember rock DJ That's the only one that I really remember

Angels I feel like is his big song And I actually I think that is a good song Like his sweet spot in the 90s, and I don't know how long his career went, but he was this mainstream singer, but he had some oasis-coded aspects to his music. So a song like Angels has a bit of a don't look back in anger feel to it, but it also is

like a Celine Dion song. So it has both of those things going on. Anyway, there was a movie made about Robbie Williams. And you think, okay, first of all, why are we making a biopic about Robbie Williams? Williams. That, by, even if it were a conventional, even if they cast like Eddie Redmayne to play Rob, or whoever, some young, hot British actor to play Robbie Williams. Doesn't make a lot of sense. But then they go the next step. And this movie apparently, there's a CGI monkey that plays Robbie Williams for whatever reason. I mean, I have to say, because I've heard this movie's been pretty well reviewed, I guess. It has, yeah. It's the same writer-director as, uh, as, um, I have to say, because I've heard this movie's been pretty well reviewed, I guess. It has, yeah. It's the same writer- the greatest showman, that movie with Hugh Jackman. Do you remember that? Yeah, I absolutely remember the greatest showman.

I live in a kind of a showtunes house. That will pop up every now and again. And I admire, and I don't know who that person is. I can't. I could look it up, but I don't really care. But, you know, I respect that they're trying to do something different with the biopic genre, because I think that is a pretty, you know, creatively bankrupt genre. So clearly thinking outside the box, maybe a little too far outside the box, I don't know.

But apparently this movie, it grossed a million dollars in the U.S., which is not very good. And only $1.9 million in the UK, which actually surprises me because I feel like that is where the CGI monkey Robbie Williams movie would do well. But apparently it's bombing there as well. So I don't know. Yeah, but I know with like album sales, like the UK has different metrics. Like, it's a smaller country. Yeah. But I also wonder though.

But I think that's still considered a bomb there. I think they're still looking at it as they were expecting it to do better. Yeah, I mean, relative to Robbie Williams' MTV Cribs performance, which is one of the greatest. I mean, they made a movie about this guy and not like some other British pop stars because he's actually Oasis Coded and that he says a lot of interesting funny shit. Right. But, yeah, I think that maybe. it will be big in like eastern europe or something like that like places that you know still love this sort of music i i have little little doubt that this is going to be a movie that like college kids watch

while they're stoned 20 years from now this is like cold not maybe like the room but the fact that people are talking about it bombing uh get but leads me to believe this has a much more brighter future than say the Farrell Lego movie, which also happened. Yeah, so that came out. Yeah. That was like last year at some point. It was also like pretty well reviewed. You know, doesn't, I don't think it includes, you know,

Farrell doing, you know, Hell Hath, No Fury with clips. I don't think they have like Lego clips trying to run a drug running operation. But yeah, that did happen as well. And like, we're going to talk about a couple other, you know, rock biopics. documentaries and, you know, I think I like that they're doing something fresh. You know, you're talking about maybe getting Eddie Redmay. Maybe they could have got like Timothy Shalameh to do Robbie Williams and have him do a soundtrack where he sings rock DJ and Angels.

I mean, like, yeah. Yeah, better man too, a better, better man. I just wonder, you know, what is the standard for a biopic? Like, what do you have to do to warrant a biopic? I mean, because I feel like usually you, They do it after you're no longer alive. Although not for everybody. Bob Dylan obviously has a biopic and he's gratefully still with us.

But he's Bob Dylan. I mean, he's done a lot of things in his life. It's a no-brainer that he would have a biopic. I feel like you have to do something really notable or you have to just be a fascinating character or I don't know. There's got to be some sort of set criteria because, like, Robbie Williams and Farrell, they both have Williams as their last name. So you got that going for them.

But neither one of them, I mean, they've had good careers, but they're not colorful characters. They haven't, I mean, Pharrell Williams has done more musically, I think. He has greater achievements than Robbie Williams. Robbie Williams just seems like a middle of the road entertainer. I don't know. It just feels like whether you got the monkey or not, or you have a CGI elephant or any other kind of animal.

It just feels at the core, the subject matter is not compelling enough to warn the film. Yeah, maybe next with the, it's the AI biopic of Kid G, country music's next rap, emo star. Oh, man. I did have to Google that to remember who it was, but I was setting up that joke. What was the other one? I know there's one, oh my God. Oh, fuck. I know, because, like, I looked up.

Kidgy because like there's another guy that we always talk. There's one word name. Jimothy. Jimothy. That's right. Exactly. That can be the title. Like snap, snap, what's his name?

The Jimothy story. Hollywood producers, if you're listening, like we are just full of these great ideas. Put us in a room. Let us cook, man. New York Times was right about Jimithy, though. I mean, we are in the Jimithy era. I mean, I think it's commonly recognized that this musical era is the Jimithy period.

And maybe we're coming out of Jimithy period. I don't know. I would describe my music as post-Gimothy. Yeah. We'll see. Because I, you know, because, you know, country, you know, we're in the emo rap country era. Now we might be in the country emo rap era.

Might be going into that. We'll see. That's what's great about music. You can ever predict these things. Before we talk about music, we should just do a quick sports cast here. I just want to do a shout out. To the birds, go birds. You beat the Packers last week, my team.

Just want to say I love the birds, man. Go birds. Love all the birds. Sequan Barkley, Jalen Hertz, Roger McGuin, Graham Parsons, all of them. There was that story about the Eagles fan who was yelling at a Packer fan in the stands. Did you see this story? You know, I didn't see it until you put me onto it. I'm pretty on point with, like, ridiculous Eagles fan stories.

This has been all over my feed this week. There was this guy, Eagles fan, who was caught on camera yelling at a woman, called her the C word. And I feel dirty even saying C word. I mean, because that's like the worst word. That's bad. That's up there with the worst. And he caught on camera and they posted it online and he got docksed. he lost his job.

And now there's a counter backlash against the Packers fan who filmed this because apparently he had a GoFundMe page where he was asking people to give him money so we could buy tickets to this game. And in his GoFundMe page, he says something like,

I'm going to go into the belly of the beast and, you know, counter all these Eagles fans. It looks like he was maybe looking to have an altercation at the stadium and I mean he's wearing a body cam so it's yeah and he's not like a police officer and I don't know can we also also the fact that like the guy who the Eagles fan works at a place called BCT partners a consulting firm that specializes in DEI services and solutions like so much of this feels like a plant I mean like I don't know about the go fund me thing but like whenever I see

stuff like this that is caught on camera now. Like I just get so cynical, like that they're all in on it. Like there's something people trying to make viral moments happen. And like, look, I think that a lot of this is real. I mean, it does look like they're on the far up reaches of the link. So you're going to get a different sort of element than you would if you were closer to the field. Like it's like watching reality TV where like 25% of it is real and 75% is scripted. And, 75% is scripted. But, well, I mean, I think it's real. I just don't,

this thing where you film people and you post it online and you're like, hey, let's identify this person. Unless they're committing a crime, like, can we not do this? I mean, this guy's a jerk.

Yes. But he, I don't think he should lose his job because he was rude at a football game or he said something terrible or, you know, you shouldn't have his name all over the media just because he was way out of line. Can we have some proportionate? you know, punishment here.

I just don't like this thing like where, you know, we, we ruin someone's life because they were an asshole, you know. If you commit a crime, yes. You know, if he assaulted somebody, then yeah, I'm all for that. But if you're just being a jerk, I don't know. I don't like that. No, let's not take our eye off the ball of, like, Jordan Love throwing three interceptions. Well, yeah.

I mean, Jordan Love, yeah, looked. awful. Whatever. I'm not going to panic about that. He's started two seasons. We've made the playoffs both years. So, you know, what do you want from a young quarterback? I mean, he is coming along. If he's, you know, if he regresses next season, then we'll have a conversation. But, you know, the Packers had four turnovers, one of which was, was bullshit because we did recover. That, that, that fumble on the kick return, like that, first of all, the dude hit him with his helmet. It was a helmet to helmet hit. And then he recovered the ball.

It was clear on camera that he recovered the ball. But they gave it to the Eagles. We were only down like six points. Yeah. Like late in the third quarter. I mean, we were in that game. And we were, we missed the field goal. I mean, the Packers shot themselves in the foot over and over again.

And they had a chance to win. I think you're in trouble against the Rams. I think the Rams could give you guys a really good game because they look good and you got, you know, you got A.J. Brown reading books on the sideline. I don't know, man. Relatable, man. That's so relatable. You know, like what I think about like what I would do if I was like a benchworm or if I was just like also the fact that like the book he was reading was this like, you know, a success a successories type grind set book. I love that. It apparently went number one on Amazon the very next day. But yeah, I don't. the Eagles should have put that game away, like, long ago. And the Rams, I just never know, like, which players of theirs are, like, actually hurt. But, you know, like, and also I'm going to, like, grain assault that shit because, you know, they teed off on, not Jared Gough. I'm talking about Sam Darnold, you know, like. Oh, that was beautiful.

And I know that brought you no shortage of joy. That was Chaden Freud. That was, like, a nice consolation. And because, I don't know, Vikings, when they played the Packers, I guess that was week 17, they posted this video after the game where they're carrying Sam Darnold around the locker room on their shoulders. And there was some tweet from the Vikings where Kevin O'Connell is in the culture. He's soaking in the culture that he's built. And then they go O and 2 and lose by like 58 to 16 in the next two games.

That was a beautiful, or 58 to 18, I think it was. that was a beautiful moment for me because it was like that's your culture Minnesota Vikings you lose in the playoffs every year you have great regular seasons and you lose like choking dogs in the playoffs every single year beautiful thing I loved it I mean, you're closer to the source. Did you, like, the Vikings fans you know in your life, did they really believe that Sam Darnold was going to, I mean, this isn't like the Randall Cunningham Moss Vikings of like 1998 or whatever. Did they really believe that Sam Darnold was going to hold up against, I don't know.

Well, I was about to say, who are the best team, like Jared fucking Goff. Like, Jared Goff's going to, yeah, I don't trust Jared Gop at all. You know, you're going to go up against Pat Mahomes. That being said, you know, the Eagles did have Nick Foles win a Super Bowl against Tom Brady. So it is possible. But like I love how as much as I despise the NFL regular season because 80% of the teams are frauds.

There's something really clarifying about seeing what teams are really frauds in the playoffs. Because like you'll get Sam Darnold. You'll get Jared Gough. I think Jordan Love maybe has more like a Kirk Cousins or Dak Prescott sort of thing going on. I don't think Gop is a fraud. I wouldn't call him a fraud. He's been to a Super Bowl.

He's been five interceptions in a game this year. A game they won, which is amazing. I don't know. I think they're going to go to the Super Bowl and lose to one of the AFC teams. I think they're going to go all the way, but like the three best teams are in the Super Bowl, I mean, if it's not the Chiefs, the Super Bowl is going to be the Bill's Ravens game this weekend.

Oh, God, that guy's going to be so good. That's going to be a great game. You know, one thing we're not talking about here, we should get out of sports guests here because we do have music to talk about, but we should do a quick acknowledgement of something that I keep forgetting is happening because I'm so checked out right now

and I think a lot of people are. Yeah. We're inaugurating a president on Monday. Big of true. Donald J. Trump is going to enter the White House with a party. And these are the performers at the party. Carrie Underwood, Lee Greenwood,

kid rock, wow. shocking. Jason L. Dean, Billy Ray Cyrus, Gavin de Grau. Yeah. Getting him back. And then the village people. That's the hedge scratcher here. I don't understand. I mean, I'm sure Trump, did he dance to YMCA at one of his rallies? Yes, he loves that song. Yeah, I just love this, this collection of talents. Also, you know, Gavin deGraw, how could you? But I guess a lot of like, you know, Maha Mamas grew up listening, grew up watching One Tree Hill. What I love about this, I am very convinced that Donald Trump

has listened to none of these artists. Like, he only loves show tunes and Luciano Pavarotti. Well, and classic rock. Yeah. Like, if he could get the stones in Neil Young, he'd be in heaven. Like, that's some of his favorite. Or Elton John. Yeah,

Elton John, definitely. He loves Neil Young, too. And he lives a stone. Oh, yeah. He's talking, yeah. He, I think he was playing rock in the free world a bunch at his rallies. That's true, but I feel like he's the, that's like the only song of Neil Young he knows. Like he's more, I would imagine, like, he likes harvest. He's not going down to harvest or, uh, I, I bet he has harvest in like one of his private planes. He's slapping that CD on. Yeah, that was the best selling album of 1972. So, uh, a little heart of gold for Donnie.

Yeah. But, uh, he likes like kind of corporate rock, classic rock. Like, uh, I just love how, you know, they're trying to, you know, put together this, like, group of people who presents Donald Trump as, like, you know, this kind of, uh, heartland guy and, you know, also people talking about him being like this avatar of the manosphere. But no, he loves like the same stuff your bitchy 80 year old grandma does, which is like show tunes and gossip. That's it. That's all he likes. That's why America loves him. They can't get enough. They relate to him. Um, so, yeah, I, I, I did forget he's not president yet, though. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it feels like he's just been president this whole time. Yeah. The Biden years already feel like they've been memory hold for all of us. Memory hold president.

Trump's just going to be president for like 12 years. Yeah. Yeah. That's where we are. All right, let's get, well, let's talk quick about the fantasy draft. One of my albums drops today. I'm talking about humanhood, the latest record from the Canadian band, The Weather Station. Currently has an 86 on Metacritic, so thank you, Weather Station.

That's about what I expected, doing very well. I actually like this record. I've been listening to this record a bit this week. I like to check out my draft picks, of course. It's not just about the score. It's about the artists. And the Weather Station, to me, they've always been this band. I picked them because they always get reviewed very well.

And I totally understand why they get reviewed. I mean, this is a band that I think does a lot of things that music writers like. There's usually some narrative hook with a lot of the records. The last record that they put out had a climate change theme. This is more of a personal record. There's something about this band, I think, that seems a little dry when you go into the record, maybe a little dull. You know, they're not, you know, they're not like a dynamic band really in any way.

There's not like really like a discernible sense of humor going on with these records. To say the least, you know, it is just this introspective folk rock type thing. And I was, when I was listened to it this morning, it actually, you know, made me think about records made by 60, folkies in the 90s. Hmm. You know, so like your mom had the CD in the minivan type records. Like Joni Mitchell's Night Right Home or like some of the records Crosby and Nash made together.

Not Crosby stills in Nash, but just Crosby and Nash. Like they made records together, like what they would have done in the 90s. You know, records that you hear at Borders. You know, if you were shopping there in the late 90s. Like that is, I think, the aesthetic of border station. So on point. And it's going to sound like I'm knocking it. But I have to say, I like a lot of those records.

That Joni Mitchell record I mentioned is like one of my favorite Joni Mitchell records. I'd listen to that more than I listen to Blue. So I like that sound, even if I'm not always super psyched to hear it. Like when it's on, I'm enjoying it. So like I like this record, actually. I don't know if I'm going to toss it on throughout the year, but I think it's actually a quite good record.

So I'm in support of the 86 and not just because I drafted it. Yeah. Also, like, I do love the borders core that you meant. Like, it's like next time, like, there's like a vapor wave type band that's like trying to do the 90s. Like, don't do Echo the Dolphin. Don't do Windows 95. Do borders core. I can't name the albums, but I know the sound.

And yeah. Can I just say quick that, like, I was in a Barnes & Noble this week. I had to buy a book there because it wasn't a. available online. I usually buy books online. It was so comforting going in there. I had not been in a Barnes & Noble in a long time and it reminded me of being in my like teens and 20s and going to Barnes and Noble or borders. I got to do this more because I go to like independent bookstores, but it's not the same vibe as like a Barnes & Noble. Yeah, I go to I go to Barnes and Noble all the time. Just like if I have like a half hour to kill or something like that. But it was so.

relaxing. I was so, I was like, oh, this is like getting a body massage going to this place. I felt so, like, yeah, I felt so chilled out when I left there. There was nobody in there. It was like me and like an older couple, like an older hippie couple. That is who, yeah, that's who's going to be there. Right. And they probably like the weather station too. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I listen to this album. It sounded exactly like you said. It's fine. And I was a little bit peeved when you took the weather station because I wanted it. And also, Ian Grant, just to note, go back to the tapes, prove to Steve that I did not, that I picked Bad Bunny, not Ethel Cain. Common mixup.

Bad Bunny's got a 98 right now. Oh, my God. Yeah, we're looking at a possible end-to-end album of the year pick. But yeah, I mean, this is kind of like in that Laura Marling zone where it's, it's fulky, but it's got a jazz element to it. like not necessarily like a smooth jazz, but you know, where folk rock and like jazz kind of intermingle and maybe, you know, throw in a little bit of resistance politics, a friend of ours said that this album was 75% less boring than their last one and I agree with that. So it's an al-mite, I don't know if I'm going to revisit, but, you know, it sounds good to me. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good record.

Yeah, it's fine. I enjoy it. It's a great January 17th album in that sense that like, yeah, I'm going to listen to this more than I must. had it come out in April because there's just like less stuff out there. It is a good album to put on and look out the window and see snow on the ground. It has that vibe. It's very Canadian in that respect. So, yeah, good record. You know, I really feel like we did our draft too early because we've had a bunch of album announcements.

And some of those albums are coming out in the first quarter. And this is my segue into our next segment because there's, a new Lucy Dacus album coming out, March 28th. And I'll read from the pitchfork story on this. Her fourth studio record, Forever is a Feeling, arrives March 28th via Geffen Records. Signing with a major. Geffen, which I didn't even know they were still putting out records. You don't really hear about Geffen very much?

Well, I do because I just listened to, like, I just listened to the usual allusion to the other day. Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah, when you say Geffen, I think of Guns and Roe. I think of like Nirvana. I think of like Don Henley's solo records, you know. You know, 80s and 90s blockbusters. But they still have some juice. Do you think David Geffen like heard her last record?

Absolutely. I actually think he did. He's probably not even involved in the label anymore. But it'd be interesting because he probably, let's say David Geffin has heard Lucy Dacchus. He was probably not upset. I'm sorry, he probably was upset when Lucy Dacus called. Barack Obama a war criminal.

Oh, right. Yes. Because Geffen is, I think, tight with Obama. A huge, huge donor. They're riding on each other's yachts and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But he's still signed her because, I mean, I'm acting like he's involved in the label. I'm sure he's not. But let's just pretend he is. David Geppin was like, doesn't matter.

I need to get on some of that Lucy Dacus money. Lucy Dacus is going to buy me another yacht with this record. forever is a feeling. She put out two songs with this record, one called Ancles and another one called Limerance. And she also put out a video for the song Ancles. And have you seen the album cover for this record? I have.

It's sort of this like Renaissance era looking thing. It made me think of the Japanese Breakfast video and song that came out earlier this month. they both have like a Barry Lindencore quality to them like they're because like in the Japanese breakfast video again it's a very sort of like classical looking thing and there's a sort of like an ornate like baroque pop aspect to her single and also to these songs that Lucy Dacus put out they both worked with Blake Mills uh I I feel like Blake Mills is more involved in the Japanese his breakfast album, but Blake Mills also plays on the Lucy Dacus record.

I think Blake Mills also is on the new perfume genius album that was announced this week. So that guy's, he's killing it, man. Yeah, he's like, Conjure the Alabama shakes out of nowhere, I guess, maybe. Damn. Yeah, he's going to be like the thinking man's Jack Antonoff here. That's, or the thinking woman's Jack Antonoff. But yeah, I just wonder, like, have all of the indie adjacent songwriters, like, are they like on a text thread where they talk about cinema and like Barry Linden is like the big film and now

they're all that's going to do sort of like a Barry Linden riff in their album artwork. It's strange. Trichorn hats are big nowadays. That's what we're looking at. No, I think it's just like a tricorn. Trichorn hat is like a redundant or something. It's like Phoebe Bridger's going to put our record later this year where she references Ryan O'Neill and then we'll know that they were all watching Barry Linden.

I gotta say, similar to the Japanese breakfast thing, I wasn't really feeling these songs. I don't know. This vibe isn't really working for me. And I'm curious to hear the rest of the record. I really like Lucy Degas' previous record, home video. And it's interesting with her and Boy Genius because sometimes I feel like she's the best songwriter in that group,

but she also had some of the most annoying moments on that record, lyrically. So I don't know. There's a variance with her. I don't know. What do you think of these songs? Yeah. I mean,

it's too early to say the Japanese breakfast song kind of felt like a flop. I didn't see like a whole lot of energy around it, but then again, maybe I'm not in that realm. Like with Lucy Dakis, like never been like the hugest

fan of her solo work of the three boy genius artists. He's probably the one I like the least. Also, they're on Interscope. like Lucy's on Geffen. This is like early Wu-Tang when they all like put out their soul alarms on different majors. You know, shout to them. But I mean, when I heard the new song, it was fine. You know, the wordplay, I can't describe why it felt kind of dated, but it did in just the way you see like a

2021 or a 2023 tweet retweeted and just realized only in the past two years, people just start kind of talking differently. I'm thinking that like, you know, we talked about, I, I, I, I, I predicted, I think, in our 2025 trend watch that we'd get like a big flop. But I don't think that's going to happen. I think maybe what we're looking at is like a two, remember 2017 when like Japanese breakfast and Lucy Dacus and Phoebe Bridgers, J.Som, Mitzke, were like really on the come up. And you would start to see LCD sound system and war on drugs and vampire weekend signed

the majors. And a lot of the previously big artists like fleet foxes and dirty projectors and the national put out kind of, not dud records, but ones that like, like, kind of let us know an era was over. I wonder if that's going to happen this year with like this same, like cycle of life stuff, not flops, but just like,

oh, this is like the fourth best album of the catalog of these artists that were like super definitive several years ago. I don't know. Flop seems like too hard of a word, but I could see like not a hard flop, but sort of like a, this is okay.

You know, and there's momentum from the previous records, and they're going to be well reviewed for that reason. But then in a year or two, people will be like, I don't really like that record. I don't remember it or I thought it was boring. Like, these songs just didn't grab me. Like, if you're going to Geffen, you feel like, oh, you're going to have the banger,

at least one of these. And I don't feel like either one of these were. You know, one song I actually do like from this camp is Sugar in the Tank, the song that Julian Baker put out with Torres. I actually liked that song. It's, and she's not doing the Barry Lyndon thing. She just wrote like a 90s pop country song.

And it actually like works really well. Like I heard it on the radio and I didn't realize it was her at first. I thought like, who is this? Is this like a song? Is this like a Roseanne Cash song from the 90s that I don't remember? And then I looked at the radio and it said, no, it's Julian Baker and Torres. And that actually feels more of the moment to do like a country. sounding record because country music is so big right now.

Feels kind of more like, yeah, like of the times. So I'm excited to hear that record. If the rest of it is like that, I think that could actually be quite a good record and a good move for Julian Baker. Because I've always felt like, like, on the Boy Genius record where she's playing rock songs, I really like that sound for her,

kind of getting away from like the tortured, ballad solo stuff that she does. I like when she, has a little more pep in her step. And it seems like judging by that single that maybe this album will be like that. So that hasn't been announced yet. I assume that's going to be forthcoming. But yeah, the Barry Lyndon thing, I feel like we're one artist away from this officially

becoming a trend. But it's very curious. I just feel like the Lucy Dacre's Japanese breakfast, at least in the early songs they put out, it feels like they're in the same zone. Yeah. I do. Wait, when I think of Barry Lyndon core, I need you to give your view on whether Muse the Zookeeper's Boy video is Barry Lyndon core or the, or at least the album cover of Cole plays Viva LaVita. Okay, I've not said, I'd love that you assume that I've seen this video.

Yeah, you love that album. I don't know if I've seen that video, though. I can't, I can't picture it. All right, well, check it out. It's a cool video. They're just like in an art museum with, like, revolutionary, war type art.

It looks nothing like the album cover. I've never thought of Barry Lyndon looking at that album cover but I could see that. I've also never seen Barry Lyndon and all I'm going off of

is screen grab so. Great film. Great film. You know, clear out three hours this weekend. Throw on Barry Lyndon. I watched the brutalist last week. I don't know if I've got that in me.

How is that? Oh, fucking great. Shout out to Yuck Daniel Bloomberg doing the score The same guy who did The self-titled Yuck album I mean And then you left the band immediately after

To do like very very different stuff Wild Great movie though I need to see that I need to see Den of Thieves 2 Pantara Hell yeah Maybe I'll do a double feature

Sometime Yeah because that movie's like two and a half hours long I've heard Denna Thieves 2 Yeah I think the first one's about that too because they do these extended like, you know,

where they're pulling up the caper. I feel like in the first one, the caper part of it is like an hour long. If they do it to like, you know, if they do like a heist scene to I'm broken, yeah, count me the fucking.

Well, yeah, I mean, in the first, have you seen the first? I've not. I'm not like an action movie. Like, but I will watch it.

A lot of people. It's good. A lot of people in the, I see a lot of people talking. talking about it. It's a great B movie. It's the kind of movie that you took for granted in the 90s. Right.

It felt like there was a movie like it every month in the theaters. It never comes out anymore. I mean, there's a scene. Okay, I'll sell you on the first 10 of Thebes. Well, also, there's two things. One, Gerard Butler, who's amazing. He's driving home after cheating on his wife. And the song that's playing in his car is what it's like by Everlast.

Yes. sold. Say no more. I know I'm already, another scene where they're all gathered in 50 cents garage. Because 50 cent,

he's in the movie, he's like one of the thieves. And on the wall is a poster for the album, Stadium Arcadium by the right hot chili peppers. One of the 250 best albums

of the 21st century according to Rolling Stones. Oh, God. Does he go by, does he go by Curtis Jackson in the credits or is he 50 cent? I think it's 50 cent. I think it's 50 cent. That's a good move. It might be Curtis Jackson, you know, and then 50 cent in the middle, like in,

like Duane Rock Johnson. Exactly. But I think it's his 50 set. I could be wrong about that. I know 50 cent is in like the HBO Max cast description. So yeah. But yeah, there you go. So Everlast Stadium Arcadium. That was one of the 250 best albums. on that Rolling Stone list. They put Stadium Arcadium on there? They put Stadium Arcadium on there. And also, and we're actually going to like touch back on this in our next subject. But there's also not just the self-titled 1975 album.

Okay. Yeah. Like, I mean, it's actually not, it's actually maybe their third best. But like, if you're going to put a 19, that is a choice right there over, you are so beautiful when you sleep, but so unaware of it. I'm fucking the time. Yeah. I just would love to be in the editorial meeting where they're like, well, okay.

we could put a Love Supreme on here or we can put Stadiam. 21st century though. Oh yes, that's right. Okay. Well, that's still one of the things that people like to dunk on me for if they don't

like something I wrote. They go, well, you don't like Stadium Arcadium. So what do you know? Yeah, that album sucks. Okay. If you're going to use that, you know, you're going to use that to like prosecute me like that I did a red hot chili

pepper's album list and I put Stadium Arcadium at the bottom. Like, fine. I will gladly wear that. I'll wear that. Put that take in my grave with me when they bury me. I'll gladly defend that one. Humpty Bumps got shooters, man. All right, anyway, enough stadium, Arcadium talk.

Let's talk about Riloh Kylie, the great Riloh Kylie, one of the great indie rock bands of the 2000s. They announced a reunion this week. They're going to be playing at the Just Like Heaven Festival. That's in Southern California, right? Yeah, I was in Long Beach. I went in 2019, the inaugural year where, you know, you had like grizzly bear, yeah, yeah, yeah, Phoenix, Passion Pit.

Like, it was very much a blog rock nostalgia tour. And I, of course, had a blast. Yeah. It sounds great. And this, I mean, it just feels like, you know, you go to this festival, you're going to see a bunch of bands that you love. I mean, they know what they're doing. And if you, as long as you don't have any sort of, you know,

weirdness about feeling like you're doing a nostalgia show. Well, I'll speak to that. I heard rumors about how the first time around, like Golden Boys or whatever, didn't say, they didn't tell the other bands who were on it because they know that they'd be like, oh, I don't want to do this shit. Because like Grizzly Bear was on there and like they did not like each other back then. Peter Bjorn and John playing.

They're like, yeah, if you want to see us play like actual, like more than five songs, we're here. We're in San Diego the next night. Wow. Well, this will be a good show. I think this is the only show they've announced so far, right? Are there other, I haven't seen any other. I think they're playing another, like the Kilby Block one, I think in Utah or like, yeah. So it's just bestful so far.

We kind of get to that. Kilby Block Party people, if you're listening, hook up your boys with some free tickets. Maybe we'll do a live remote. That's a cool, like Salt Lake City's cool. I like that time. But, yeah, you know, with these reunits. unions, I was wonder, like, did the band land in their window where this is going to really matter? Because I think there's definitely examples of bands that wait like a little bit too long.

And they've aged into an area where not as many people care anymore. Because like what you want for a band reunion like this, I think, is you want to appeal to the original audience. But you also want to appeal to like a younger audience that got into the band after they broke up. and like now this is their chance to see them. And sometimes a band can wait too long where like the younger audience is no longer there and it's just the older people and like the older people are maybe like a little too old

and they don't want to go to a festival anymore. Like the classic example is stone roses at Coachella. Like that is like they waited too long to do that. If they had done that five years earlier, I think that would have gone over better. But by the time they did it, it was like, it's been a long time. We've been about 20 years.

They were never that big in America to begin with. And now making them a headliner. Just doesn't work. Yeah. Maybe we need to get the Ian Brown CGI monkey movie. That would be cool. That'd be amazing. And he's more monkey-like, too.

So it would make more sense with him. I think Milo Kiley is still in that window. I feel like if this were a few years earlier, it would have been even better. But I think there's, I don't think they've missed the window yet. I mean, because they still feel like they are an influential band. Yeah. Modern indie rock.

It feels like there's like a lot of sort of children of Jenny Lewis making records right now, you know, who are doing what she did in Riloh-Kyleon as a solo artist. I think very few of them do it as well as her, but you can hear her influence. I mean, do you think that this is still going to resonate with people at this moment, time in 2025? Well, to your point, I mean, like, there are quite a few of my friend, like my female friends who are about like five to ten years younger than I am, were like super stoked about this, but also that piss that like I don't want to go to a festival. Like even if it's one that's like a couple, an hour, couple hours away. And I'm like, you know, I'm trying to think the

fact like, you know, they're, I don't know if they like each other enough to do a tour. I don't know a ton about the internal dynamics of Riloh Kali. I mean, like, you know, Jenny Lewis and like Blake Senate were like a couple, I think. And then they, you know, that was kind of an animating force. But I think that, I don't know, they have a pretty wide window because, you know, the execution of all things. Like, I'm on the record as a Ryle O'Chaly person because of the execution of all things. Incredible record. Sounds just as fresh as in 2002 today.

Like literally everything about it. Like, you know, the lyrics kind of have that sort of Phoebe. Bridgers style like oversharing funny but like kind of depressing but like I'm kind of self-aware about it thing you know they have like a lot of country trimmings even on that record a little bit of electronic music the environmentalism and but that being said with that's like the only riloh kiley album I actually like you know it's kind of on the sub it's sort of like with cursive and the ugly organ where I'm like yeah I'm a cursive person but I actually only like that one record You know, I remember being like massively let down by more adventurous, which is the follow-up.

It came out in 2004. It was produced by Mark Trombino of, you know, Jimmy World's Clarity and Bleed American fame. It only had one Blake Senate vocal as opposed to like three, which, you know, it's always a good thing, even though I love the elected. And I just felt so let down by it. It felt like too slick, super charmless. There was like a bad anti-George Bush song. that song that album actually made that rolling stone list more adventurous one of the 200 and this is important in terms of we're talking about rio collie's long-term influence i think of their output from like 04 to 07 more adventurous than under the black light as being the epitome of i will call this blender core like i'm talking about the magazine blender which was kind of like a i guess like kind of an embryonic form of pop optimism that, you know, they were a little too early with that.

But those albums, to me, are predictive of a trend that you also see concurrent with the things I already mentioned, which is indie artists making like a mid-career pivot to pop. And it's just like not good. Now, mind you, like, Rilkely was way better at it. But I'm thinking of like recent records by like Charlie Bliss, like Sasami Pomp Club where, you know, they start out kind of this indie milieu, but like halfway through. They're like, yeah, we really want to embrace the pop music that we really love. And it just sounds like 1989 is the only pop album they've ever heard. Yeah.

Yeah, that Charlie Bliss record was bad. I hate to say it. Did not like that record at all. I like those albums more than you do, those Riloh Kiley records. Under the Blacklight, I think you're mischaracterizing it a little bit because to me, that's the record where they really start to embrace like the Fleetwood Mac into their music. In particular, like the Tango and the Night era, Fleetwood Mac, which ended up being the record that a lot of indie pop artists gravitated to in the 2010s.

Hym being, I think, probably the best example of that. Like, they took the baton from Under the Black Light and they ran with it and they became, I think, more successful with it than Riloh-Kiley. I mean, Under the Black Light was really the beginning of the end for them. But I'm a fan of that record. I know it wasn't as well received at the time as some of the earlier records, but I like Tango in the night a lot. I like that they were embracing the sort of maximalist Lindsay Buckingham-style production.

on that record. And, you know, with me and Riloh, Kylie, I like more adventures, too. I think execution of all things is their best record, but I like those other albums, I think, more than you do. But I'm also on record as being more of a solo Jenny Lewis person. I think that the records that she's made since Riloha Kiley, I just like them more. And I like her whole catalog, really, as a solo artist. Her last record is probably the one I like the least.

least, and maybe that is why we're now having a Riloh-Kiley reunion, because that record I feel like wasn't as well-received as a record, like On the Line, for instance, which is a brilliant record. That's one of my favorite albums she's ever done. So, I don't know. I guess I hope they do more of a tour because I would like to see them. I'm trying to remember if I've seen Riloh-Chali before. I don't think I have. I've not. I've seen Jenny Lewis solo, but not with Rilkelly. So that'd be interesting. I think her, I think Jenny Lewis and Blake Senate did like a Instagram thing together during the pandemic. I think I saw that like they did some video, live stream thing. So I assume that they're cool at this point. I mean, it's been a long time since they were together and it

would be weird, probably if they were still angry at each other. You know, they're in their 40s now. They dated in their 20s. It's quite a quite a lot of water under the bridge. But who knows? maybe perversely, we all hope that they're still fighting because it again feeds into the Fleetwood Magnus of it all with Riloh-Kiley. But anyway, yeah, I hope they two, I would like to see them. I think they're a great band.

Yeah, and get the elected to open, man. Get the elected. Flake, what are you doing? Get that band back together, too. Can we get the Watson twins in here too? Can we just like make it a Riloh-Kiley cinematic universe thing? Yeah, I'm actually seeing bright eyes on Saturday, so I'm like on a Saddam Creek kick, yeah.

I still love the drama. I'm still a purist when it comes to that whole early 2000 Sattel Creek sound. Let's get now it's overhead back. I'm sorry about Dresden. I want all of the Saddle Creek B team. So let's transition quick here because we're running short on time, but we do want to talk quick about the 2004 rock documentary dig directed by Andy Timitor.

It's being re-released starting today in the theaters, there's a new edition of the movie called Dig XX, and it's an expanded version of the movie. It's 40 minutes longer, and it's been refurbished. So I don't know, those of you out there who have the DVD, I have the DVD. I've watched it many, many times. It doesn't look very good. It's pretty grainy looking, especially on a big TV. So the remastering, refurbishing, I mean, they've upscaled the images from the film, so it looks

quite a bit better. And that's the good news. I love this movie. I just want to say, this is one of my favorite rock documentaries of all time. I've watched it countless numbers of times. This is one of my favorite, like, get stoned or get drunk late at night

and then throw this on movie. I think that's true for a lot of people. Kind of has that quality to it. And again, for those who don't know, I guess I should say, this is a documentary about the Brian Jones Town Massacre, the Dandy Warholz, the director, Andy Timiner,

followed these bands, for eight years in the late 90s, early 2000s. And it's sort of like a goopism and gallon situation. You have the Dandy Warhols. They describe themselves as the most well-adjusted band on Earth. And then you have the Brian Jones Town Massacre, who just a train wreck band. They're getting into fights on stage.

They're blowing their travel money to Los Angeles on sitars. Just going on a sitar buying binge. So it's a documentary about these bands. it's a great just like, you know, watching it, a car accident type film. I don't know if this movie needed to be longer. I've seen the long version. And I feel like the original gives you just the right amount of like the Brian Jones Town massacre and Anton Newcomb, the lead singer, who's like a maniac.

When you watch that movie, I don't think you necessarily feel like, I want to spend 40 more minutes with this guy. I feel like hour 45 is perfect. And the new version, you know, it adds footage. And also there's some modern day stuff that's in the movie, Joel Gion, who's the tambourine player in the Brian Joneson massacre. He does some narration in the film and gives some contemporary commentary on things that have happened since the movie. Some of which is interesting, but again, I don't feel like it really adds to the movie. I just wish that they had like remastered the original film and made it look good and then do a Blu-ray of it.

Like, that's what I wish they did. But, you know, this is still an opportunity to see the film in the theater if you haven't seen it. And I think it's a great movie. You've seen this movie too, right? Yeah. And you're absolutely right in that it's, I mean, when I saw it when it originally came out, Like I was absolutely getting drunk and like watching movies like this. It's just, it's just so, there's like a squalor and a bad vibe to it that just meshes well with that sort of thing.

Very decadent. Yes, very decadent, but also like very kind of cheaply decadent. It's not like watching their being on like private planes and stuff. It feels somewhat attainable. Like you could watch this like, oh yeah, I want to be not maybe in Brian Jones Town Massacre, but like, yeah, I like, yeah, I like this movie a lot. I am on the record of saying like the best biopics you know the best biop like movie biopics aside from like live performance movie music movies

are the ones that are either fake like this is spinal tap and walk hard or the ones like some kind of monster and of course dig where like the subjects aren't quite aware they're like the butt of a joke and yeah these two bands are like it's an Ohio State Notre Dame style I hope they both lose up because like yeah Brian Jones like Anton Newcomb is like a total asshole and like but on the other hand like the Dandy Warhols aren't particularly likable either

and so you just really get a sense of like what you value in rock music from watching this I do like the I think you you mentioned the tambourine player now can we can we just like go on the record with saying like this person only plays the tambourine exactly Ryan Jones' which is like exactly the kind of band you're dealing with. It's not like, oh, they play like synthesizers and like the tambourine. It's like, no, they're just the tambourine play. Well, he also plays the Maracas sometimes, I think. So he's like Bez and Happy Mondays.

But yeah, he just played and his job is to have like a 60s looking haircut and to play a tambourine. And he is the second most recognizable guy in the band. So, you know, and I like Joel Gian. He's a good presence in the movie. You know, he's funny. He's a goofy dude. And I guess he's a good tambourine player. I mean, if you're going to bring a guy on the road just to play tambourine,

he better be like the Jimmy Hendricks of tambourine. I'll just say, like, I like Brian Jones Town Massacre as a band. And I'll say that their compilation album that came out around the time that Dick did, tepid peppermint Wonderland. one of the great greatest hits albums of the 21st century. If Rolling Stone's going to do 250 best greatest hits albums of the 21st century, you've got to put Brian Jonestown Massacre up there high, just because there's a lot of great songs on there.

And it does the job that you want from a greatest hits album and that it makes going to the studio records almost irrelevant. You know, because the studio records are like pretty spotty from this band. there's a couple records that are pretty good, but I really feel like the greatest hits album is what you need really from this band. So I still listen to that. I think there's a lot of jams on it.

And watching the movie, it did make me feel a little nostalgic for a time when you could be someone like Anton Newcomb and not just get immediately dunked on by a million people because you said something grandiose. Like if there was a musician like this now, they would not last very long. If you were saying the types of things that he says

and the types of things that he does, because in the internet era, you know, if you do something kind of silly or grandiose or arrogant or whatever, like the hive mind just destroys you. And like, this was a time, you know, in the late 90s where, yeah, you could be this, megal maniacal asshole and not get exposed for like a really long time because it was just

harder for people to do that and look he's a jerk but there's a part of me that misses the time when we could have colorful characters like this and indie rock because I think now you know in the social media era everyone is so self-conscious about what they say that we just get a lot of musicians who like never say anything interesting. And it's not their fault. It's our fault. It's the media's fault. It's the public's fault because it's like anytime someone says something outside the

norm or provocative, you get a million assholes online that have to dunk on it. And I've been one of those assholes too. So like I include myself. I'm part of the problem. But I'm just saying let's let these flowers grow. Let's let these ridiculous people, you know, blossess. because it makes our lives more interesting. Otherwise, we just crush everybody into oblivion.

And everything is bland and black and white and boring and PR managed. And that's the world we live in now. And I think that's sad. Yeah, well, the good news is, like, you know, Anton Newcomb and Brian Jones Town Masker is still apparently acting the same exact way they did in 2004. I've had friends who, Bill, every time like Brian Jones Town Massacre comes to town, they're like, yeah, we're going to go see it. even if it's at the shittiest venue and they'll always tell me like, yeah,

uh, Anton Newcomb was like incomprehensible, uh, the entire time. They sucked, but they're always going to go see them. Like you can never underestimate the loyalty of the levitation, Austin Sykebest crowd.

And also, I got to wonder, man, would you watch Anton Newcomb as a CGI monkey? Oh, you bet. 100%. 100%.

Now now we're, now we're talking. Like, you just have, like, a monkey, a CGI monkey saying, you broke my sitar. That, now that is going to gross at least $2 million. That's art. That's art, baby. That's art. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where we talk

about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right. So I want to talk about a band called Lots of Hands. The album is called Into a Pretty Room. It's out today on Fire Talk. That's a record label that has become a. mainstay of Recommendation Corner.

They're from Leeds in the UK, and I've been trying to figure out a genre name for the sort of music that this band does. I hear it a lot. It's like, you know, maybe there's kind of Elliot Smith-style muted mutter vocals, but there's auto-tuned in banjo, and you can describe it in the general sphere of Howdy or Alex G. Can I call this new blog rock? I know it doesn't sound anything like, you know, the old idea of blog.

rock but it just seems appropriate and i mean that obviously complimentary i'm a big fan of all eras of blog rock but you know like if anything i had mentioned so far sounds appealing um maybe like you know at older experimental Alex G or how do you when they do you know do kind of the more electronic stuff um it's just a record that sounds good at what it does uh it's pleasant i will return to it quite a bit and it's also the sort of record that uh Sounds good when you are staring out the window at the blistering cold, which I woke up this morning, San Diego. It is 31 degrees. Frost on the roofs. Lots of hands is doing that for me. So weather station, lots of hands. Let's watch the frost. Can I just say I drove my kids to

school this morning. In the van, it said that the temperature outside was 34 degrees. So in Minnesota, it's warmer than in San Diego. When in the hell do you ever say that? That's an incredible moment for the Twin Cities area. I want to talk about a guy that I've been listening to for a long time and who I feel like has always floated under the radar, even though I think he's a great, great singer-songwriter and a very colorful character, if I can go back to an earlier theme of this episode. His name is Todd Snyder, and he just put out a box set.

I guess this was last month called Best of All My Songs. And he released it on vinyl, I believe it's also available on streaming. But it's re-recorded versions of 50 of his songs. And it was taken from a series that he did online during the pandemic where he was just revisiting his catalog and he was telling stories. And it's just like a really cool way to introduce yourself to this man's catalog if you haven't dug in before. The way I would describe Todd, and I wrote a column about him this week,

I did a pretty lengthy interview with him, is that there's a lot of song, writers now from, you know, especially like in the country, Americana space who, you know, talk about Chris Christoperson and John Prine and Jerry Jeff Walker and, you know, Billy Joe Shaver, all these great artists of the 70s. But Todd Snyder is the rare person who feels like he could have come out of the 70s. Like he has that same mix of songwriting chops and just attitude and backstory. And, you know, his, songs are just, he writes these great story songs that have lots of great detail to them and they're

also really funny. It's like often a tragic element to them. You know, in his personal life, you know, he's been in and out of rehab. He's had, you know, he got like a pretty devastating divorce about a decade ago. And he's had some health problems that it's made him hard for him to tour. He's got like a back condition that, you know, it's really hard for him to stand and to get around. Although when we were talking, he said he was doing better. frankly I was like kind of worried about him and that was one reason I wanted to interview him along with just being a fan but again this guy is great if you like this kind of music and you haven't listened to him before I really recommend it I think you'll enjoy it he go back to his records east Nashville skyline the devil you know it sounds like John prine if he was back by the Rolling Stones in like the exile on Main Street era and they made a record in one night like that's what those albums sound like great storytelling great lyrics and they just are raw and they rock. Just great records, great artist, Todd Snyder,

best of all my songs, check him out, he's great. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.