Indiecast - New Year's Resolutions

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

After a long year, 2021 is finally here, bringing with it new episodes of Indiecast. To kick off the first episode of the new year, Steven and Ian are discussing musical trends that took hold in the 2010’s that might begin to fade out as we settle into the 2020’s. It’s impossible to predict what the next decade is going to look like, musically, but we can only hope that it will be something genuinely new and exciting.Before Steven and Ian dig in for a typical episode of news, reviews, and more, the duo want to take some time to declare their New Year’s Resolutions. In this week’s episode, Steven and Ian are digging through the things they want to see more of (and less of) in 2021, upcoming new albums from The War On Drugs, Father John Misty, Foxing, The World Is A Beautiful Place And I Am No Longer Afraid To Die, and more.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Steven has been enjoying 'At The Moonbase,' the surprise new album from Slaughter Beach, Dog. Ian, on the other hand, can’t get enough of the band Curve.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talked about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we make our New Year's resolutions for 2021, discussing what we want to see more and less of this year. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

You know, Steve, as much as I think our listeners love our, natural banter and witty repartee. I'm not going to lie. I usually rehearse this part of the show long in advance and just sort of hope that nothing in between us hashing out the outline of the show and us actually recording it happens. And I think Ariel Pink getting busted for being at a right wing storming of the Capitol in the final days of our president Donald Trump is, I think that's an event enough to upset what my my plan remarks. So it seems like 2021, if we were wondering if it would be any real, any different in 2020. I, I think we're kind of in the bonus cuts of 2020 right now. You know, we're having the deluxe version with the B sides and the, and the, you know, the, you know, the mono

recordings and, you know, the one where maybe we let the bassist try to write his own song. Well, you know, I'm glad you brought this up because, you know, I was looking at the best songs list that Pitchfork put out in 2010, which I think you probably voted for, right? You were probably a voter for that. Of course I voted. So you have Ariel Pink, number one, he's gone MAGA. You have Kanye West number two. He's gone MAGA.

So I wonder, you know, has anyone checked in on James Murphy? Because LCD sound system was number three. on that list. Robin was number four. I feel pretty sure that Robin's okay. She's like Swedish. She's probably not mega.

James Murphy, I don't think he's gone mega. If he did, like I wouldn't be shocked if he went back. Yeah, he was kind of an asshole in his prime. He was kind of an asshole

in his prime anyway. I think that was one of the main takeaways from Meet Me in the bathroom. I don't think he's a MAGA guy though. So, you know what? I think he's probably just going to not do or say anything for the next five years.

So, like, does he, like, you know, become now, like, the number one song of 2010, like, retroactively? Like, dude. Wasn't, wasn't, oh, 2010. Okay. I thought you were talking about, like, the 2010s because then we could put, like, grimes in there, who she's clear, not Maga, but, like, nonetheless her. This is the year 2010.

So, like, you know, that lives. So about 10 years ago. This is like a somewhat belated 10-year retrospective on that list. Top two are mega. So do they get DQed now? And I think I can change is the LCD sound system track that was on that list. So is that like the new number one? Sure.

I guess it's like in college basketball or whatever when there's like a team that like Louisville that had like recruiting violations or whatever. so they have to like forfeit the title. I don't know, man. I just think, I'm just glad the Titus Andronicus, the band that actually wrote an album about the American Civil War has like stuck to very hard left politics, you know? Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, they've kept the faith. You know, I hate it when people say things like this because I think it's totally beside the point. So I'll just say that coincidentally, I never liked Ariel Pink. I always thought he was obnoxious. That's totally removed from what he's doing now. not saying that like I knew all along that he was going to go mega. I'm not like trying to put

myself apart from those who liked him in 2010. I think it's up inaction when people do that. I'm just saying that coincidentally, I thought he was annoying 10 years ago. So like I don't really feel a sense of portrayal or anything that he was, you know, storming the Capitol building with, you know, thousands of Gahus. Yeah, John Miles, too. Yeah. He was there. Yeah, for me, I have a very distinct memory of like, I think. It was 2018. My girlfriend and I were in Mexico City, and we heard round and round in a, like, a clothing store, and I turned to her being very serious.

Like, this is a very important song for my culture. And I guess those memories are now solid. That's like the, like the millennial boys of summer right there. Like on the road today, I heard Ariel Pink's round and round. A little voice inside my head says, don't look back. You can never look back. So yeah, it's fun segue for this show about our New Year's resolutions. That's true.

Well, we're looking ahead, although we'll be looking back a little bit too with our mailbag question. But yeah, I'm excited to be back in the saddle. We've been gone for a couple weeks. We took the holidays off. Now we're back to distract people from the collapse of America, which, you know, I feel like is an important thing to do. Give everyone a little bit of a break. We can talk about fun indie rock stuff. while the world burns.

I think it's a pretty good system that we have here. So let's get into it with our mailbag segment. This question comes from our listener, Jake, and he says, Hi, Steve and Ian. Hope you're doing well. I've been listening to the pod since the summer, and it's really been a bright spot this year.

I've been a fan of emo music since I was a teenager, so naturally I enjoy listening to Ian's takes slash rants. But Steve, you've been also winning me over with your takes and recommendations to the point that I might just pick up a Father John Misty record next time I find myself browsing at a vinyl site. Wow, Jake, thank you so much. Now for my question, are there any trends that took shape in the 2010s that you see fading out this year as the 2020s get fully underway?

And similarly, what sounds do you see catching on and becoming more widely embraced slash influential? The 90s revival in the vein of Soccer Mommy and Bibadubi? Hyperpop? How about the trend of barriers between genres being blurred slash erased, such as with emo rap or even with a record like Live Forever by Barty Strange? That's a great question, Jake. Wow, I, again, big ups to our listeners. I feel like, you know, a lot of times with these mailbag segments, you get duds, you know, just nothing that you can really talk about. I'm not saying, like, I'm talking about, like, other shows. I think for our show, consistently good questions from our

listeners. And like, you know, Jake, you kind of call out some trends here already that like are pretty big in indie music right now. You know, the singer-songwriter thing, the hyperpop movement and, you know, as well as, I don't know if this is a trend really, but just that idea of like, you know, kind of genre becoming like one big genre all kind of melting together. I think that the only answer to this question at this point since we're only like one week into 2021 is we don't know. I mean, it's like pretty early to, you know, be saying like what the trends of 2020s are going to be. I will say there's one thing I'm curious about, which is that, you know, we're now almost a full year now, like where no one's been touring. And it seems like 2021, I don't know if tours are going to exist. I mean, with the way vaccinations are going, it's being rolled out pretty slowly. I don't have a lot of faith that there's going to be shows this year, but maybe I'll be wrong.

I hope I'm wrong. I'm curious, like, to what degree that's going to influence the records that are being made. Like, and again, this is just pure speculation. I wonder, like, if artists who, by the way, I should say that, like, because there's no touring, I mean, one unfortunate trend, I think, is that a lot of artists won't be able to make records at all because they won't be able to, you know, survive financially. So that is something with us set aside for now. But for artists who are making records, are they going to be making records,

knowing that they can't tour, so they're going to make records that they aren't even sort of concerned about playing live. Are people going to be making their Sergeant Pepper or their pet sounds or their soft bulletin? Like more complicated, more sort of studio-bound records

that you wouldn't even try to replicate with a band. Because we've talked on this show about how there's been an ongoing trend of bands kind of being eased out in indie rock and how it's really a lot of times like one person spearheading a record. record and then they recruit musicians to play live. But if you're not playing live at all, and you don't have to worry about recreating songs,

is that going to inspire musicians to say, well, okay, I'll just make a record that will just be a record that I know I don't have to play these songs at all. Maybe that won't happen at all. I mean, because, again, a lot of musicians are already making records in isolation, you know, so maybe they'll just continue as they're, you know, proceeding right now. But that's just a guess that, of something that might happen. I don't know. Like, what do you think, Ian?

Yeah, I think when we look back, like I think another point that we've made quite a bit is that the decade usually begins with the one year like 2011, 2011, and I don't think we were really able to like see how things change until we look at it in retrospect. You know, this is kind of a two-part thing where in the one year we usually get introduced to the artists that come to define the decade ahead. like for example, 2011, we've heard the first projects from Kendrick Lamar, Frank Ocean, the weekend, and so forth. But in addition to that, we find out that the zero year, like 2000, 2010, 2020, usually very strong year for records, but oftentimes albums that represent kind of an endpoint for the previous decades trend. So, you know, I do think that one thing we're going to see a lot more of is maybe not so much like genres being blurred, but I think Bartis Strange might be the kind of artists we see a lot more going forward. I think that we're going to see a lot more

like black artists operating what might be seen as like an indie rock sort of sphere, like Quentin Brock's another guy, Kenny Hoopla, and just kind of seeing more of that. But when I think about the trends that might actually start to wane, when we look at 2000, 20's big, big ticket albums such as like Punisher or color theory or St. Cloud. Jake mentioned that whether like that the 90s singer songwriter trend, whether that's going to carry over in the new decade, it's possible that we've seen maybe the zenith of that and that it may not go away, but it might kind of start to ebb in the way that that 90s sound did, you know, in the 90s. That one seems to be like the big, big trend.

that culminated in 2020. So I don't think any of those artists are going away anytime soon, nor do I think like a singer-songwriter, a millennial or Gen X or Gen Z or whatever, take on, you know, Shell Crow or Third Eye Blind. But I think maybe that might start to look a little dated in the same way that, you know, in 2010, Deer Hunter and Arcade Fire would become dated in a few years and, you know, Modest Mouse and like Sigler Ross in 2010 became kind of dated as those years went on as well. And also we have to take into account the fact that things are just happening so quickly

that I think we really are an unprecedented time. So trying to speculate what might happen even two months from now is kind of a fool's errand. But we're fools, so we're going to do it anyway. Yeah, I mean, I think you make a good point about the singer-songwriter thing. I mean, to me, like singer-songwriters are always around. So I don't see that necessarily as something that's going to go away. I do think that like the critical vogue of that could fade fairly quickly because critics tend to be like sharks where you're in one area and then you have to keep moving to

something else in order to get people's attention. So I could see that happening. One thing I think that's different maybe from like this wave of singer-songwriters that we've seen the past few years is that they're all still like pretty young. Like if we're talking about that. that indie rock wave that happened at the end of the aughts into the 2010s. We're really talking about like, you know, for the most part, guys in their 30s, you know, who like, you know, at some point, like, you're not going to be appealing to, like, kids

if you're, like, a 35-year-old man or a 40-year-old man. But, you know, like, Phoebe Bridgers is still in her early 20s, you know. Julian Baker, who's going to have a record coming out in February, she's in her early 20s, you know, Lucy Dacus, who I don't know if she's, you know, she has an album coming out this year, I would assume that she probably does. Because it's been a little while. I mean, you know, in soccer mommy, they're all, like, pretty young. And I think it's fair to assume that they probably haven't made their best records yet, you know?

Like, they're on their second, like, Phoebe Bridgers has made two records, you know? Yeah. I think there's still room for, like, a lot of these artists to grow and to mature and to not feel like they've peaked. Like, I don't know if, like, Phoebe Bridgers has made. her Halcyon digest yet or her Meriwether Post-Fourillion. You know what I mean? Like the sort of benchmark record. I mean, we'll see. Maybe it was Punisher.

We don't know. But like, it's still relatively early in her career. Yeah. I just wonder if like the sound is going to remain. Like that's I have no doubt that these artists will continue to make, you know, good work. I just wonder if like the sound will

change to the point where you know, they might be doing something like radically different. if they are to make that version of themselves. But I think if any of them are going to make an album that's better received or more popular, I mean, like Phoebe Bridgers was nominated for, like, what, three Grammys or something like that?

I would love to see her top that, you know? Yeah. And again, and I think even like within, like, you know, if we're just talking about singer-songwriters, there are, I think, different strains. Like, I don't necessarily think soccer mommy and Phoebe Bridgers sound all that much alike. I mean, I think soccer Mommy is more in that 80s lane than like Phoebe Bridgers is or certainly like Julian

Brits. Julian Baker is like not in that lane at all. That's like she's a more of like sort of like emo folk thing and her thing. And in her record, which I'm sure we'll be talking about next month, is definitely a move towards making a more sort of lush, big sounding record than what she's made in the past. And she's been moving more in that direction with each record that she's made. So Yeah, I mean, again, we're only a week into January and 2021. It's hard to know. But, you know, we'll be excited to find out how these trends unfold and we'll be talking about it on ADCAST.

So never miss an episode. Stay on top of all the trends, all the hashing out of trends that we do on this show. It's going to be great. So let's now segue into the main meet of this episode, which is the New Year's resolutions. Ian and I are both looking ahead to this year, and we don't know what's going to happen, but we have wishes for what's going to happen, things that we want to see more of,

things we want to see less of, albums that we hope come out this year, although again, as you said, these are unprecedented times. So, you know, there's some artists who I know are holding records back, hoping that they can tour behind them. But if touring doesn't happen this year,

you know, records are going to come out, I would assume no matter what. so I guess we'll see. Let's talk first about something we want to see more of this year. What are your thoughts on this, Ian? What are you hoping that you see more of in 2021? So you brought up that there are artists who might have albums already in the can who are perhaps holding back until touring seems feasible, like, you know, which could be potentially 2022 or even the end of 2021. I think we're going to see a pretty steep decline in the sheer number of albums of any sort being released in 2021. And I think it's possible that we're going to see, like, 2020 was a really strong year that I think a lot coasted on a lot of albums that were made pre-COVID. But I think it's very realistic that we're going to see a drastic decline in maybe big-ticket pop records coming out or maybe not.

they're the ones who don't have to tour and they can just put it out anyway. But, you know, in lieu of what might be kind of a wild year for consensus, a wild year for, you know, big albums to gravitate around, I'm wondering, like, this could lead to two things. It could either lead to a stronger consensus, you know, rallying around the bigger names, or it could lead us to getting weird and going back to like that early 2000s, wild ones. West sort of environment where just hype bands came out of nowhere. And I'm hoping to see more of that. I call this the kind of Black Midi effect. Black Midi is one of my favorite bands of the past couple of years. Not because I think their album is like just the best thing I've heard.

I mean, I like them. But they reminded me of those bands that you would hear about in the block rock era where they would put out their debut and there would just be so much hype surrounding them before they had a chance to become like really rose. tested or just approved by everyone. I think 2020 was a year of a lot of albums and artists that were, you could see it coming from a mile away, like, you know, Phoebe Bridgers, Fiona Apple. Like, if you looked at that list, run the jewels, if you look at the list of albums that

were dropping, you could pretty much guess which was going to be at the top. So what I'm hoping for is, I don't know, for publications or artists to just get kind of weird with it, to take like real risks and going all in on these maybe unethical, unknown or unfamiliar type acts so we can what what I loved about black middy as well is that people were kind of able to make fun of them and uh just kind of clown on them without feeling like like that they were going to get canceled for doing so like they were a band that you could like love and also just kind of joke about and it reminded me of like uh the environment of like the early 2000s where you could just just kind of mock bands and like be irreverent about it.

I know you had mentioned a desire to see more of that. And I don't know, like, maybe we're not, maybe that's not going to be the case with bands or maybe it's going to be solo artists, but just stuff that we can look back on maybe as like, man, I can't believe we, we hype this stuff up. Like,

I would love to see a willingness to just go out of a limb more often. Well, yeah, and like, you know, you mentioned black midi as an example of that, you know, and this is a much bigger band,

but, you know, the 1975 is another example of a band that, like, you either love them or you hate them. And as someone who has kind of been on both sides of those fence of that fence, I appreciate the 1975 as just like a fun band to write about for that reason that you said. That like they're a band that you can make fun of.

And they're also a band that you can like, you know, genuinely love and stump for. And yeah, you don't feel like there's like a set narrative where you have to like sort of parrot this line or, you know, respond to like a single sort of idea of like what this group is. there's like all these different opinions on them and it's just fun to argue about them. I'll say that like as someone who has to come up with like, you know, columns to write every week, that like the release schedule for early 2021 is like pretty bare of like major. It's a waste land. Which is not unusual for January and February. I mean, even like in a normal year, those can be fairly slow.

Although like, you know, there's usually like at least like a couple fairly well-known records like a year ago. was that no that was Sharon no that wasn't last year that was 19 I remember like Sharon Vanetten came out in January and there were like a million features about that record

and so occasionally you get like someone figures out that like hey if we put out a record in January by like a well-known artist then everyone's going to write about it because they're going to be so desperate to like cover anything but yeah I mean it seems like

there's an opportunity that opportunity there for what you're talking about for like maybe like a smaller band that people could talk about and get excited about rather than just sort of relying on the same old tent pole artists. For me, like the thing I'm hoping to see more of in 2021 is just like more innovation with like streaming shows and like what they refer to in the jam band scene as couch tours where you know instead of like going to see a band you like end up streaming a bunch of their shows like on a tour like watching from home and I remember even before you know COVID came down this was something that I was hoping to see more of in the indie sphere like where artists were

streaming their concerts or making them available to stream and just being more creative with like how they were presenting their sets being more creative with their set lists and creating an environment like where it just becomes more fun to sort of follow a band as like a live entity rather than just it being like a way to promote their record. And I'll say, like, you know, I watched a fair number of streaming concerts in 2020, and, like, a lot of them I was kind of bored by, you know, to be honest. Like, it just wasn't a whole lot of sort of interesting presentation or, again, not a lot of innovation, like how people were presenting this.

But the concerts that I did see that I enjoyed, I really loved a lot. Like, toward the end of the year, I ended up seeing one of the shows that the Hold Steady did at the Brooklyn Bowl. They streamed like a three show run there. And they were doing cool stuff. They had like really interesting set lists. They were like, uh, they had like fan cams like where they were projected above the band where you could see people watching at home, which was actually like a pretty like fun and like moving way to like engage like where you kind of felt like you were in a crowd even though you really weren't. And that's kind of like a minor thing, but it actually did a lot to like make that experience more fun. Um, and again, I just want to see more. Um, and again, I just

want to see more of that because I feel like, again, we don't know what touring is going to be like this year. It doesn't seem like we're going to be seeing shows anytime soon. But like even after people are vaccinated and shows come back, I feel like this is like an opportunity to continue to stream concerts. I really think that this is like another way that like indie bands can connect with a fan base in the same way that like, you know, a jam band does, you know, like where you can engage people where it's not just about your records, it's also about your live show, and it, I think, just makes it more fun to follow bands. So, yeah, so I hope that there are better and more sort of forward-thinking streaming concerts available this year. One I really enjoyed was, you mentioned, like,

jam bands or hold steady, like artists who, I think, gain a lot from audience interaction. A show I saw towards the end of 2020, which I felt was really prime. Mama Sing was a band, you know, Thursday, The Gods. I've seen them live, like, in person a few times, and it's been kind of iffy of late because, you know, either Jeff's void, he was suffering from the flu, or they got tapped at the last minute to open for My Chemical Romance, and they were just, like, not really rehearsed. But they did a show, and where they had a bunch of guests, like they played their own songs.

They played a huge mix of things, like songs they haven't pulled out in 10 years. They had, they played Texas as the Reason songs where they had Norman Brannan come in. They had Barty's Strange Open. And the cool thing about that was instead of just like, you know, an opening back coming on the stage playing their set. He performed in kind of like a basement with a bunch of keyboards. He played songs from Sega about a pretty boy. And it was it was like kind of like a multi-venu sort of thing. And it felt like an actual like experience.

It did offer a lot of, as you were talking about, like, Easter eggs to fans. And I think that's a cool way for, you know, artists to engage to, like, to get creative with, like, camera angles or, you know, like extras or things like that because, yeah, it's especially going to be hard for bands, like, you know, the stuff I like for them to recreate the live experience because a lot of the jam bands, I, like, wonder, like, what jam bands that you talk about, like do during their early days, like when they're supposed to be traveling around the country playing night after night after night so they can get to a point where they can, you know, do things with streaming. But you're right in that like what we saw in 2020 with like

the camera in front of the acoustic guitar or just like the recreation of a soundstage, I don't think that's going to cut it. And we're either going to see bands adapt or die to that. So yeah, that's that that's, I'm really hoping. you're right on that. And I think that bands are, they have really, bands, artists, whoever, they have no choice but to do something a bit more outside the box. So in terms of things that we want to see less of, what I'm going to say, I'm sure you'll agree with this. I've seen you make jokes about this on Twitter. It's less framing of every album or everything an artist does as a reaction to the quarantine and or Donald Trump.

And look, like, I'm a person. I had to write a year-end list. I had to write record reviews in 2020. I definitely referenced COVID in my reviews. And I did that because how could you not? I mean, it was the elephant in the room. It was a huge deal. It was on everyone's mind. And I think, you know, when you're a music writer in times where music seems relatively insignificant, there's maybe like a defensive posture that you take where it's like, why am I writing about this? I mean, there's so many more important. important things in the world. So I at least have to acknowledge the strife that's happening outside of this little bubble of like musical fantasy that I'm living in. So I understand like why that happens. But it is extremely limiting like when you read like every year end list or you read every record review and music writers and or or just, you know, pundits or even just like music fans want to frame everything as like either like as a resistance album or like, You know, this is like the record that we need because it reflects our state of mind and in quarantine. I mean, it really ties everything, you know, all this art to like this very specific moment,

which, you know, art does speak to a moment in time, but I think we can all agree that like the best art tends to be, you know, sort of transcendent of its time, you know, that like it, that the albums that people really remember are records that like you can enjoy when they came out or you can enjoy 10 years later. And I think the best records that came out in 2020, you know, they're going to be able to be enjoyed long after COVID is, well, probably not forgotten, but hopefully we'll be cured of it in 10 years. I mean, who knows? But yeah, like just that narrative really just became really heavy-handed in 2020. And, you know, and assuming Trump leaves, I think he's going to be gone. We don't have to worry about him anymore. Hopefully vaccinations will take place so we can move past COVID. and we can just sort of figure out something else that every piece of art is about. Something else we can get tired of talking about. Because, yeah, I think if we were to do, if Indycast were to have existed in 2013 or 14 or whatever, it's, you know, it was like everything is a reference to the cloud and, you know, like how social media.

And yeah, it's, I think you're right in that I think that I think that. there's a lot of framework of it. I think we're talking more about, like, the way music is presented by writers and fans and so forth, because you're right in that the quarantine and or Trump. I mean, really, what else is there? I think it, it's hard not to feel dominated by that. But that being said, you're right in that none of the albums that,

I think that we talked about enduring past 2020, like, you know, like you said, Punisher, Fetch the Bolt Cutters, et cetera, were explicitly about those things, but their themes were relevant to that and also can be seen as relevant, you know, going forward. We talked about that in the past episode that the albums that address, you know, Donald Trump directly or address, you know, being in COVID directly, I have a timestamp on them. And I don't know. I think that we're hoping people get a little more creative with how they frame something. And also like maybe address less in the collective, like, this is the album we need or this is the album we deserve. It's like, I don't know, man. I think every, I think people should take more ownership of like when they're projecting.

And actually that kind of gets into what I'm hoping to see less of in 2021. one, just kind of take a step back and address the fact that I work in my real life. I work in the, I work in the therapeutic realm. So yes, I have read Brne Browns daring greatly. And the reason I bring this up is because it talks about like how people are kind of dominated by their fears, how people can't really achieve what they want in their relationships and their jobs because they, approach life from this perspective of scarcity, that there's not going to be enough.

And the reason I bring this all up is because I think for music writers and music fans, we are operating from a very fearful point of scarcity right now because publications are folding. Artists are no longer able to tour. Labels are folding. Streaming is dominating things. And I think everyone's just kind of concerned about like what the future might hold. And I think a side effect of that is a lot of music criticism or music fandom is kind of built into like music industry like music industry genuflection to power. Like if you read any sort of music history, you get the sense that like it's impossible to fight the kids.

Like the kids are going to set the agenda and not the music critics in their 30s. But I think there's too often a reactive relationship to it. Like, for example, like with TikTok, I do think that's going to be something that affects music and pop trends going forward in a very profound way. But I also get the sense that there's a sense of defeatism amongst music fans or music writers where it's like, well, there's no point in trying to contest this. Like the album's going to be dead. We're just going to consume one minute songs. And this, you know, this is a good thing.

I welcome our TikTok overlords. And what I see, what I think we saw a little bit of this with like movies in 2020 where people like movies that would have been probably widely praised like Tenet or Wonder Woman 1984 when people really got the sense that they don't have to follow along and genuflect a power. and like, you know, you know, you know, if you can't beat them, join them. They, they, the criticism against it was like pretty strong. And I'm wondering if we're going to see, um, rather than, uh, this scarcity mindset where we have to, you know, treat the Grammys as the most important thing where we have to think it's a necessarily

a good thing that albums are being destroyed or that streaming, uh, is the main source. Uh, people more willing to, uh, criticize those in power. Yeah. It's just maybe not so much like the role with the winner's mindset. Because I want to bring like maybe the 2002 mindset where you can like say, hey, major label albums like maybe they kind of suck. I don't know.

But. Well, and also, I mean, I think, you know, just go back to your point because I think everything you said, I agree with everything you just said. the way. And that thing you said about, about, you know, the fear of, you know, people in the media about the future and like sort of automatically sort of capitulating to anything that comes down the line that is perceived to be associated with youth culture. I think there's fear and I think that, but I also think there's like a lot of vanity in the media class, like where media people don't want to ever be perceived as old or out of touch. Yeah. So they overcompensate sometimes

by like over-embracing these things and acting like they're an expert on it when they're really not. And I feel like with TikTok, I don't necessarily want to read people in their 40s talking about that. I think if people are good, because I do agree that's important.

That should be covered. And it should be covered by people who are of that generation and are of that world, not coming at it from the outside. I think that is probably the best way to go. Not to say that like older people can't get into it

understand it. But I just think that generally speaking, the best kind of writing about that is going to come from people who are of that world and are coming at it from like a perspective of of fear or like, again, vanity, like where again, you're the Steve Bishemi Giff with like the skateboard over your back and like, you know, hello kids or hello young people, that whole thing. Because, yeah, I agree. And, you know, you mentioned like, you know, there's been conversations, about like TikTok, is that going to destroy the album? I actually just wrote a column about this. Like, I wrote a mailbag column.

Someone asked me if I thought that social media platforms and TikTok are going to destroy the album. And I said no, because when I was a tween, I tape songs off the radio. And I dubbed CDs from my friends. And I parceled them down to individual songs that I liked because I was a kid. And I had a short attention span. didn't want to listen to albums. And then I got a little bit older. And guess what? Like, I changed. You know, it's like the kids who are on TikTok now, they're not going to necessarily be on TikTok forever. I don't know what they're going to go to next. But like those people are going to be

old someday too. And they may not want to listen to one minute songs anymore. They might want to listen to like 20 minute jazz songs, you know? People change over time, you know? How hard was it to fast 4 through fitter happier in 1997. You know, like, it was very easy to skip songs back then, too. Well, it's like, I mean, as long as I've been listening to albums, people have been talking about the death of the album, you know? In the 80s, it was home taping. In the 90s, it was skipping around on a CD.

In the aughts, it was iTunes, how you could buy an individual track, and you had your iPod with, like, the iPod shuffle. And, of course, people were pirating songs at that time. So, like, you didn't have to buy albums. You could just go, you know, on the internet. and download whatever you wanted. So people always talk about the death of the album in the context of technology,

but albums still exist for the same reason that movies still exist because artists want to make movies. Artists want to make albums. They care about the art form. And even if they know that people, even if you're a filmmaker, you're Christopher Nolan, you make Tenet,

he knows that people are going to watch that movie on a phone. But he's still going to make a grand movie to be seen in the cinema because that's what he wants to make. he's an artist. If it were just about the marketplace, yeah, movies wouldn't exist. Albums wouldn't exist. It would all just be lowest common denominator, dumbed down bullshit. You know, that's all there would be. But it's not just about the marketplace, you know, you have to consider the intentions of artists as well. So, yeah, that's not going anywhere. And yeah, I agree with you. Let's less genuflecting at the tech bros ruining art. All right.

So anyway, end of my rant there. See, I rant on this show too. Someone earlier said that you rant on this show, but I also rant sometimes. Okay, anyway, our last resolution is going to concern album we hope comes out in 2021. This is probably the part of the show where it's like the Ian Cohen core, Stephen Hayden core part of the episode. I think before we go into our individual choices here, we have to make a joke about the Wrens. Like we're hoping that the Wrens record comes out this year. Who knows if it will?

Actually, I mean, it's not a joke. We do hope it comes out. But who knows if it actually will? Yeah. They're still like, it's just so incredible to witness like them talking about their mastering process and how they're still tweaking and everything, like tweaking like EQ and whatnot. And like to, I just hope it comes. out, maybe. It's hard to, like, because the Meadowlands, the reason that that was such a, you know, such a emotionally compelling record was that they put all of their travails and failures

and disappointments in the lyrics. And, you know, we just didn't really know what was going on between Seacoccus and the Meadowlands. But like, that we've been seeing the step-by-step process of this album. I wonder if it's just going to. going to be kind of deflating when it actually exists. I don't say that. He'll never put it out now. He'll never put it out. You just said that.

He's like, oh, well, Ian Cohen thinks it'll be deflating if I put this out, putting it back in the shelf. He was probably just about to press, like, sand on the record. And then he heard this podcast. And he's like, oh, forget it. So aside from the Rens, what album or albums do you hope come out this year? Well, when I was thinking about this, there are albums that I'm excited for. I think that now I don't know anything about these albums beyond like what you could probably read on Twitter.

Like, for example, Foxing or The World is a Beautiful Place and I'm no longer afraid to die. Like, I think those albums are going to come out. They've been talking about them that they're in the mixing or mastering phase. And even though like a lot of their tweets may signify a band on the verge of breaking up, we're going to see those albums in 2021. one. Like I would say there's like a 98% chance of those things happening. But as far as like albums that I'm kind of like selfishly hoping for just to maybe make things interesting, I'm fascinated to see how arcade fire react to everything now or just the kind of general downturn of their perception. I think the time has come. I know when Butler had said like they've been working on a lot of

music in New Orleans. Am I excited? I'm excited for it as like someone who really finds the arcade fire very meaningful, but just as like from a rubbernecker, sort of sample, like how they react to it. Because I don't think, I don't know, maybe they're like at an interpol phase of their lives where they just put it out an hour and it's like important to a certain amount of people, but it's not really moving to culture. Also, I thought of, it's amazing that we, I don't think we've talked about this band a lot on this podcast, but, you know, it's been four years since the last Japanroids album. And, you know, they're not. not on Twitter.

We don't hear a peat from them. Is it possible they've released their last album and I maybe, you know, have heard everything they have to say, perhaps. But I just wonder what they do every single. Like, what does Brian King do every single day? Like, if he's not on the road and not writing music. I know they take a long time to write songs. But I would get the sense that either they're going to create this like big

proggy double album sort of thing. or just make a really raw punkish record. I don't know. Maybe, like, I would have assumed that they would put out something, but their quality control is so high that they might not put out anything ever until Tori's happening. And the last thing, I like to think that Japan droids don't actually take a long time to write songs.

They just, like, wait to the last minute, like, on their deadline, and then just write an album, like, in an afternoon. And then it comes out. Like, they sit around for five years, and then, like, they bash out. a record like in a day. I mean, that's like kind of like what what what what what what what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, a song they actually like.

So, um, it might be the, yeah, maybe that's just part of like, um, you know, the, they're, their, their, their, their legend. But, you know, lastly, I would like to see either a, like, a a frank ocean or a kensik Lamar album just so we can kind of test what we were talking about earlier in the episode, like whether the two thousand tens or, like, whether the two thousand tens are really over because if either of those two release an album that just doesn't meet the same acclaim as the ones before, then maybe we get the sense that we have moved on. But also, I just love them as artists and I want to hear what they have to say about the past several years. Oh, yeah, especially Kenne. Very excited to hear. Because Dan came out like 2017.

So that's, yeah, that was, yeah, I would say April. Yeah, it was not, it was pretty, I was still in Kentucky, so it was definitely the first half of 2017. He's, I mean, I also think there's the possibility of him releasing a whack album, so that's exciting to me. I think either one of them could, like, I feel like with either one of them, it's going to be either great or, like, pretty disappointing. Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of, like, middle ground. To go back to like to the Arcade Fire thing, I'm going to second that, just for the content for

this podcast. Like, Arcade Fire album talking about Identitycast. I'm very excited for that. So, yeah, I hope that happens. As far as the album or albums, I hope that come out, like, look, no big surprise. The War on Drugs is at the top of my list for this. They've been sort of hinting that a record is going to be coming out for a while now. Actually, Adam, I remember, I think like back in March or April was like sharing songs on Instagram from the new record. that were pretty awesome sounding. I mean, they're only about 30 seconds, I think, of each song. I think he's probably still tinkering with that record, too,

but I would expect that album to come out this year unless they hold that for a tour. I don't know, but hopefully that comes out this year. Also, got to say, another Stephen Hayden favorite, earlier referenced in this episode, in connection to me, Father John Misty, who I've heard to the Great Vine that his record's been done for,

like a year. And he's just been sitting on it. So I assume that's going to come out, you know, sometime this year. We'll be very excited for that. That will also be great content for this episode as well as other things. So excited for that. Hope that he comes back to doing interviews too. I said this many times. It seems like he's like gone on lockdown for interviews, like for a while now. I would expect that if he does come back to interviews, it won't be, you know, the pure comedy interview cycle anymore. I think he learned his lesson with that, unfortunately, because that's one of my favorite album cycles of, like, the last several years.

I know a lot of people were irritated by that, but to go back to what we were saying before, you know, you were talking about Black Middy, 1975, put Arcade Fire in there. Father John Misty's another one. These are fun artists to talk about, you know, because people hate them or they love them. And we need more people like that that are just fun to argue about.

So I hope all these things happen in 2021. All right, we've now reached the part of the episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I recommend something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right. So, you know, with this recommendation, it's not going to be someone obscure, but I just have to talk about MF Doom. it's very rare where an artist's death like legitimately shakes me up.

And, you know, with Doom, it could be partially because of how young he was when he died at 49. The fact that he had actually died on Halloween and it was just kept under wraps for two months or the fact that it was announced on the last day of 2020, it was a very much like, well, can we just be done with this year sort of thing. but with MF Doom he it was on the one hand it was just so exceedingly sad to see that happen and also anyone from the age of like 25 to 45 who likes rap

was just posting MF Doom lyrics on Twitter like all day just a very formative artist in terms of establishing you know like my sensibilities for hip hop or just really music in general. And for a lot of people who may not have been, you know, following rap or alive, maybe during his heyday, and I would say 2000 to 2004, you can hear his influence.

I mean, Tom York was a huge fan, you know, like Fortet or Burial. But also, like, a lot of the rap that happens now with, like, Earl Sweatshirt or Mike or Rock Marciano even to a certain degree. But I would recommend that if you're not familiar with Doom's catalog, which can be really intimidating because he put out so much music under different aliases for such a small period of time. You know, to start with mad villainy, I mean, like that goes without saying. But also, food or vaudeville villain is Victor Vaughn or King Guidra, take me to your leader.

I think for anyone who's interested in, I guess the merger of indie rock culture or just indie rock and hip hop, those are just indispensable works. And also Operation Dooms Day as well. Like if you get started with any of those, I think you really owe it to yourself to become familiar with MF Doom, not just because he's like an important artist, but because it's just so enjoyable to listen to. And it's just a throwback to a time where, you know, the internet as I knew it, was a bunch of a bunch of people like just quoting Doom lyrics on their blog spots. It was on the one hand, like an exceedingly sad time, but also just kind of poignant and bittersweet.

So I have to give my tribute to MF Doom in the recommendation corner, even if it is someone who's just such a important, well-known artist. Yeah, I was going to say that, you know, obviously it's always incredibly sad when someone dies young. I think he was 49 when he died that we know of anyway. I feel like there's so much mystery with him that he could have been older or younger. Who knows? But it was pretty heartwarming to see just the outpouring of love for this artist.

You know, it's like one of those times where you feel that. that like Twitter can actually be good. You know, even if it's the sad occasion, just so much warmth and just people, you know, sharing joy and like love of music and just like how genuine it was for him. So as someone like myself, like I'm not well-versed in his music at all, but I was like really sort of, I guess, heartened to see all the enthusiasm that people had for him.

I thought that was great. I'm going to be recommending this album called At the Moon Base by a band called Slaughter, Beach Dog. This record dropped over the holiday break. I think it was on the 28th of December that this album came out. It's the fourth record by this band. At this point anyway, it's not really even a band. It's just one guy named Jake Ewald, who you might know from the crucial

2010-RUAL. Emo band Modern Baseball, a band that is are they officially broken up or just on hiatus? Oh gosh. I would say a very much hiatus. I mean, you know, Jake's made more Slaughter Beach Dog albums than Modern Baseball albums. So, yeah, I do not see them coming back anytime soon. Yeah, well, you never know. Hopefully they'll get the reunion dollars in like 2030 or something. But for now, Jake is putting out these Slaughter Beach Dog records.

And the latest one I think is like probably my favorite. I feel like each, with each record, he gets. better as a writer. And I think just sonically, the records, there's just more to them. They're more filled out. This record has, like, a lot of great touches to it, like some really cool synth parts. There's, like, a lot of saxophone on this record that, like, really works well. It kind of reminds me of, like, the way that Destroyer uses saxophone on Caput. It has this sort of, like, soft rock, glamorous feel, but, like, it's done in a straightforward way. Like, it's not a joking thing. At least it doesn't sound that way to me. Like there's an actual sort of genuine sense of like splendor, I think,

to a lot of these songs. And Jake to me, like, he's really evolving, I think, into this songwriter. And he had this element in modern baseball as well. But like, I just feel like he's become like a really great storyteller in his lyrics. And I would say that if you were not familiar with his records, that if you're a fan of like, say, like the hold steady or like, like, I know when we were talking about this record, you talked about like the weaker thens being an influence. Like, to you a pretty obvious influence on this band. You know, like a lot of times he's basically just like talking over like these sort of instrumental beds and like just telling stories about like, you know, young people involved

in like various stages of distress, I guess you could say. You know, these sort of like, you know, great stories again in the matter that you might get, you know, from a hold steady or a Craig Finn solo record. And I've just been enjoying it a lot. And, you know, this is a record. that it came out at the end of 2020, but like I'm going to consider it a 2021 album. Yeah.

You know, for me. And it's definitely like one of the, it's probably like the first album that I've heard of this year that like I really, really like. I guess Nat County, I guess there's the Wild Pink record too that I feel like that came out a long time ago, but it came out a long time ago for us. I've had it since July.

Yeah, yeah. It comes out, you know, this spring for everybody else. But there's some other good records coming down to Pike as well. But yeah, like if you like, you know, sort of like fractured heartland rock with like really cool storytelling lyrics, I think this record will be up your alley. It's called at the Moon Base. And the band is called Slaughter Beach Dog. Yeah, it's very much like you said, like I would post emo in the sense that you get artists like John Kaye Samson or David Bazan. after they stop making their like more overtly emo music,

they kind of move more towards a singer-songwriter sort of mold where you can like kind of sleeve tattoo, craft beer sort of lifestyle. But nonetheless, you still get the, it's a band that like evolves along with its fan base. And you know, I think that he, it is the best Slaughter Beach Dog record. Yeah, I think that we're going to see Jake put out Slaughter Beach Dog albums like every year or something like that. He just seems like someone who creates, you know, just out of habit and will continue to evolve and, you know, establish himself as, I think that it's not going to, it's not going to exceed modern

baseball in terms of influence because like the way people talk about that band, like, you just can't replicate that. But I think Slaughter Beach Dog is going to, like, be established as it's very much its own thing. I think it's already has. But, It's going to like have this analogy. I just thought of this analogy. Can we say that modern baseball is Uncle Tupelo and this is Wilco? You know what? When I interviewed Jake for that last album, he said that like he was kind of shocked and a little

bit embarrassed that he already became a Wilco fan because he used to think they were like such a boring band. But now he's like, yeah, I actually kind of like Wilco. And he was like, I think 26 at the time. Well, and I'm sure by now he loves Wilco. If he's like approaching 30, he's like fully in the. the Wilco camp. And I was just thinking too, because there were like two songwriters in modern baseball. Whether you like modern baseball or not, I think, you know, I think fans of that band are

naturally going to be drawn to Slaughter Beach Dog. But even if you didn't like modern baseball or you don't know who they are, I think you can also get into this band. Definitely worth checking out. That does it for this episode of Indycast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back with more hashing out of trends and reviewing albums and all that jazz next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.