Indiecast - Oasis Gets Snubbed By The Rock Hall + A New Album From Hovvdy

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

Steven begins this episode like he has many other installments of Indiecast — by complaining to Ian about the performance of his Fantasy Albums team. In this instance, he thought he had a sure thing — a new Taylor Swift album — but after a predictable wave of early raves, Taylor’s Metacritic score has tumbled amid a critical backlash. What happened? (0:30) Steven and Ian also recap their recent experiences at two very different concerts, Phish at Sphere and Cindy Lee in San Diego. (16:08)After that, Steven proceeds to rant about Oasis not get inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame this year, and how this underlines once again the Rock Hall’s bias against alt and indie bands of the 1980s and ’90s. (25:24) He also compares Foreigner and Peter Frampton to former NFL quarterback Trent Dilfer. and it definitely makes sense. Then the guys review the new album by the charming Austin indie-pop duo Hovvdy, who make very good patio music. (36:23) In the mailbag, a listener brings up new music from Menomena and if it’s ever bad to sound too much like yourself. (45:07)In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the “sasscore” band SeeYouSpaceCowboy while Steven goes for a classic rec with the ’80s band Love And Rockets. (52:57)New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 186 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indicast is presented by Uprox's Indie Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indicast. On the show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review the new album by Howdy and we rant about Oasis getting snubbed by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, or at least I will rant about that. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He tricked me into taking Taylor Swift on my fantasy albums team. Ian Cohen Ian, how are you? You know Taylor's down bad on this album rollout because I started to see her Twitter account retweet positive reviews which I haven't seen...

What? Yeah, I think there was one from Uprocks, one from Billboard. I know that she did this. I want to say it was either like 2014 or 2016 and you would just see these writers absolutely glowing.

And I think like, rightfully so that like Taylor Swift acknowledged their positive review. I think that was like reputation maybe that was happening with that. Well, for her album lover, she actually posted things on Instagram thinking individual writers for their reviews, which is one of the sadder moments, I think, in music criticism when people were really excited about that. So, okay, I checked Metacritic last week on Friday. when the latest Taylor Swift album came out, the tortured poets department,

which, if you don't know, this album dropped on Friday, 15 songs, and then like two hours later, Taylor Swift's like, here's 15 more songs. Cindy Lee-coded. Yeah, well, yeah,

except Taylor Swift is doing this all the time. It's just like more slop. Here's more slop for you. Just going to throw you more slop, you public. You can't get in, enough of me. When I check Metacritic on Friday,

and now I'm doubting my memory, but I swear it had like a 92. It was up there. It was like all raves. Like those were the first ones to drop. Yeah, and I might have even said something to you. Maybe I'd have to go scroll through the DMs, but I think I was even gloating a little bit.

Like, oh, look at this. I am going to cruise to victory. Taylor Swift coming through. Now, for those who remember our, most recent draft, Ian and I were both reluctant to take Taylor Swift because we were thinking, oh, this might be the backlash record. You know, she's just been getting tons of positive press for years now. She's due for a market correction. Also, the rollout for this album, some of the advanced, you know, lyrics that were released, it looked like kind of a stinker

in advance. You know, there was some cringy lyrics being shared. But then the album drops, and you start seeing these reviews that we've seen for every Taylor Swift album. It is somehow, again, her best album in years, her most personal album, her most, you know, daring. Daring.

She's addressing the pitfalls of celebrity, the loneliness of being the most famous person in the world, yada, yada, yada. I checked Meta Critic the other day. This album dropped to a 77. Yeah, Black Monday, man. Like, we... Fifteen point drop.

Is this unprecedented? I've never seen this for like a major record. Sometimes, you know, you drop like two or three points, maybe five. Fifteen points? It's unbelievable. And look, I would kind of be excited about this, except it's affecting my fantasy team. And, you know, look, I'm going to make a couple quarterback analogies in this episode,

just a fair warning to people. This album is Mack Jones. This album had a good... first season and then fell off a cliff. And now, you know, it's journeyman status now for Mac Jones. That's what this album is. Except I'm the one who drafted Mac Jones. She's killing me here. I think this is more of an RG3 type comparison because, you know, Robert Griffin Jr. just, you know, Mac Jones was like serviceable for a year. But like Robert Griffin, like he made the playoffs though. Yeah, but he like busted up his, he busted it. Like the Redskins

put him on the field, even though he had like a busted. knee and then he like never was the same and now he's like but he's he had a happy ending he's on TV killing it yeah you're talking about RG3 I mean I the Mac Jones analogy I would just make because he was good in his first year there were people thinking oh he's going to be the Tom Brady replacement and then just fell up a cliff just terrible and now he's a backup to Trevor Lawrence I think yes I think he's in traded for a six-round draft pick yeah the our if we're doing NFL draft cast today is the first round so uh you The day that we're recording, it's the draft.

It'll be the second day by the time this episode post. But, yeah, just an incredible drop. It is interesting when you have these big albums that come out and critics rush out to say it's great. And then immediately there's like a second wave of people saying, not so fast. This actually isn't great. I mean, to me, the example that comes immediately to mind is be here now, Oasis. That album came out. Every British magazine is like five out of five stars.

Best albums since Sergeant Pepper. You know, this is the second coming. And then came the next wave of reviews saying, oh, it's too long, it's bloated. You know, fame has gone to these people's heads. I mean, I think it's somewhere in the middle with Be Here Now. I mean, I love Be Here Now. It's not the greatest album of all time.

It's not the worst. This album is certainly bloated, though, to Be Here Now levels, this Taylor Swift record. Is there anything really as good as, like, magic pie on this or my big mouth. But yeah, being here now might be one of the greatest bad albums ever, but, you know.

Yeah, I mean, like, because like, bad Noel Gallagher lyrics are funny. Yes. Whereas the Taylor Swift bad lyrics are just embarrassing. Yeah. I mean, it's just fascinating how, like, I think that we somewhat predicted that there would be like this division on this album where, you know, some of the more

pop focus, celebrity be focused, publications continue to love it, and maybe some of the, you know, more indie ones feel, you know, feel comfortable taking their shots, like, under that cover. But just the way it was all portioned out, like you were saying, it was all raves and then the backlash. And like, I think at the beginning, like our pal Larry Fitzmaurice called it like more of a, the beatings will continue until morale improves type flare. But, you know, the raves to me have like a.

a boat blue no matter who type energy where it's like you cannot hold your leader accountable for just like any bad things that they do or the things that like you would absolutely find intolerable if like anyone else did them yeah right there's also the matter of people publishing reviews on Friday when the album dropped at midnight now I don't know if they had advances I really doubt that they did I don't think there were advances for this album I know it leaked Oh. So maybe people heard the leak. But it just seems like, and God bless these people, I know that that's their assignment,

but it's like they were just up all night listening to Taylor Swift and then writing their review, like immediately. I mean, I actually think that you could have waited a few days and still been okay. I know you want to be the first one in, but like with this kind of record, I feel like you don't need to have something immediately. although there were some great reviews that people did. I mean, shout out Tom Bryan. Yeah. Stereo gum.

He wrote a great review. And he must have just been up all night. Yeah, you know, Ivy of Joe Cola laced with cocaine or something. Like just to stay up and do that. I thought his review was very thoughtful. Yeah, shout out to Tom. He fascinates me because he does shit like this all the time with like two hour long pop and rap records.

Like by the next morning they're published. Yeah. And he's got kids and shit too, yeah. He's a pro, though. He's been in the, you know, look, we're out there. He's in my generation, got the pros here from the online salt mines back in the day. The adults are talking, yeah. Shout out to Tom.

One review that dragged down the score came from paste. It's actually the lowest review on Metacritic. They gave it a 36. I don't know how they come up with these numbers. Because there's no rating. There's no rating on PACE. So I don't know how they came. There are actually.

Pace does have. Oh, they do? Yeah, they do. Okay. So is it on a number scale? Yeah, yeah. It's like a 10 scale, if I'm not mistaken. At least that's what it was when, yeah, I'm going to, I'm looking at it here.

Rating, yeah, it's in a little blue box on the top, on the top right hand corner. Okay, my mistake. So they did give it a rating. I mean, a lot of these places don't give ratings. Like the New York Times doesn't give a rating and somehow on Metacritic. It has a 60. I don't know how they came upon 60. They just read their prose and were counting the insults, I guess, and detracted that from up 100.

I don't know what that is. But Pace, that review was one of the reviews that went viral. And I think a big reason why it went viral is that Pace decided not to put a byline on the review. And the rationale given at the top of the review, was that our critics in the past have been given too many threats online and we don't want to put them in danger so we're not putting a byline on this review. All due respect, I hate that. I really hate that.

I think if you don't put a byline on a review, it's not music criticism. It's an internet comment. And look, that review, I don't want to get into the pros of it or the opinions or whatever. I mean, it begins with a questionable, if I could be polite, suicide joke about Sylvia Plath. And I'm like, if there was a byline on this review, I don't think you make that joke. I think you would think, okay, people are going to call me out personally if I make a suicide joke. So maybe I won't do it. And that's actually one of the good things about online accountability.

And I'll put myself in this. I have made questionable jokes in reviews. People have called me out on it. And I was like, you're right. I shouldn't have done that. That's a good thing. Sometimes you need to be checked. There are people online who are just lunatics,

and they go after you for no good reason because you didn't like a record. That's awful. But sometimes there's people online who call you out. You should be called out. You're a perpetual line-stepper, to quote Charlie Murphy. You cross the line.

and you need to be called out. I just don't think it's right to write a record review and not be accountable for it. If you are that concerned about your staff being threatened by people on the internet, which is a legitimate concern, just don't run a review. You know, you're not, this isn't like Lyndon Johnson sending you to Vietnam because of the draft. There is no rock critic draft, you know? you can decide not to take the assignment if you feel like it's not worth it. But to not put your name on it, I just think it's cowardly not to do that, especially when you do have people who did write critically of this record, who did put their names on their reviews.

And they took the consequences of it because that's the job. Sometimes you say things that aren't popular and people are going to come after you and it sucks, but, you know, it's part of the gig. I just don't think, you know, especially if it's like a, because that was like a hatchet job, that review. It was like really negative. So to be really negative and then not say who wrote it, I don't know. I just, that just seems weak to me. Yeah, maybe like Pace just doesn't run a review because they're too shook. And then we spend the next 10 years talking about it, like how Pitchfork didn't review 1984 or whatever.

You know. 1989. Oh, fuck, man. Yeah, they haven't reviewed Van Halen either. So, you're always, I was going to say, you're always confusing George Orwell and Taylor Swift. It's very easy to get them mixed up. Yeah. I was thinking more like Van Halen, but like I, yeah, I, look, if Pitchfork had a byline on their review, Pace can do it too, with all due respect, man. And like, I think my bigger issue is

that it was, like you said, not even a good review. It was, it read like, and I'm going to do a real fucking deep cut from like the OG, you know, me and Tom Brighan on BlockSpot era. That, like, read like, something like you would see Byron Crawford do in, like, 2005. Yeah, I know deep cut right there. Yeah, it's just like these jokes aren't funny. It's just like, it's just like this idea of like, oh, this is what the game is missing in music writing. And it's like, no, we don't miss that, you know, because like, well, I've done that. I've been there.

I am glad I did that back in like, say, 2005 rather than 2015. We all have shit that we embarrass ourselves with if you stay in this game. long enough. But at the end of the day, though, I do appreciate the overall impact on the score. You know, if we're talking about a music writer draft, you know, the only one that matters. That review was the Robert Griffin knee injury for me. So, you know, I guess I resented on that level, too. Yeah, I just want to say, you know, I've seen this sentiment online among the younger generation about hating and like bringing back hating. And, like, bringing back hating. And look, I understand where that comes from because we are in an era where it seems like a lot of press coverage about very famous artist is overwhelmingly positive to like a super annoying degree.

And when you see that all the time, you feel like I want to do the opposite of this. I want to take a hatchet to this. But the opposite of dumb discourse is not more dumb discourse. Okay, and like a lot of blind hating is just as dumb as blind adoration. You know, you can criticize something and do it like in a smart, thoughtful way. I think just like being really mean is like not the solution to the discourse issues that we are having in this moment of time. Even though, again, I understand the visceral enjoyment of that. Like, it is a short-term thrill to see someone that you feel like is being overpraised being taken down a peg.

But, like, in the long run, it's, like, not, it's not a positive thing. Didn't Taylor Swift write a song called Mean About? Right. Bob Left-Sitt. That's right. Yeah, we're going to get Mean, Part 2, whatever album that is, once she, like, finally re-recorded it. Like, that's going to be, like, the biggest thing ever to happen to Paste Magazine. Yeah, or maybe she'll cover rude by magic.

You know? This I like. Yeah. It's like, why you got to be so rude? Music critics. Yeah, and they'll just change the entire lyrics. Yeah. I wanted to do a quick follow-up on what we were talking about last week.

We were both going to some big shows, polar opposite of each other. You went to go see Indy Phenom, Cindy Lee, in San Diego, and I went to go see Indy Phenom, Cindy Lee, and San Diego. And I went to go see. Fish in Las Vegas. I'm really curious about the Cindy Leeshow because I love the record and also because it's not coming anywhere near me. What was that like? I mean, I would imagine it was probably pretty packed.

Yeah, it was sold out. It was a real. So the piece I wrote about this for Stereo Gum, like literally just posted. So, you know, I'm hoping that I don't get some sort of weird backlash for things I say in there. I don't think I said anything off the, like off the rail. But nonetheless, it's a little unnerving when you ever go big picture. But yeah, this show was on sale for like two months when I got tickets, like about two minutes

after the review dropped on pitchwork. I'm like, fuck, I better get on this. And I bought tickets. Total cost $25 bucks. Wow. Yeah. And like 12 hours later, the show was sold out. That happened everywhere.

It was a show where, like, a lot of my real life friends with whom I discuss music are like 30 to 40. year old indie people who used to read you know pitchfork and stereo gum in college and just kind of stopped eventually and they were all at this show. It was like the most, it was like the biggest in real life friend hangout I've had in quite some time. And yeah, it was sold out, but it's like at a, you know, it's at a venue where you can see like,

you can see Hotline T&T, Cloud Nothings are coming there. And look, the show started at 830. It was a three band bill. And it was over by 1030. Five stars. Yeah, Cindy Lee's been playing the same 10 songs set in each city over backing tracks. By the way, I want to give a recommendation to the opener, free heat waves there. They're kind of part of that universe.

Cindy Lee does some vocals on their stuff, and it sounds really awesome. I got to recommend them. But, yeah, you know, Cindy Lee played guitar. Amazing guitar player. It really comes alive when you see it because, you know, they have the same sort of dead pan gum chewing face. It's like this

kind of purposefully blasé appearance that's part of the persona but yeah, it was crowded. People were recording on their phones. Like Cindy Lee would know

know about the crowd like, you know, smoking and like hanging by the soundboard nobody punishing them. But like the one piece of stage banter I caught was them saying

I feel like a cage fucking animal, which I don't know if that's part of the bit. I don't know a ton about the Cindy Lee persona. I've heard that this is their last tour as Cindy Lee and that they might retire the moniker.

I think that was maybe even the case before Diamond Jubilee dropped. But most people loved it. I thought it was a cool show. A lot of people thought it was a cool show. You know, because this is someone who's been around for a while. This is not like seeing waves or, you know, clap your hands, say, yeah, back in, like, when they got blown up super quick. Like, Cindy Lee, to the degree that they are blowing up, they're prepared for this

moment. Yeah, again, I think it should be reiterated that I really don't think there was a plan in place to create a phenomenon that would, you know, springboard Cindy Lee to start them. I mean, this really does feel like an accident in a lot of ways. And, you know, that caged animal line is interesting. I mean, I know it was announced, I think, before this tour started, like on that GeoCity's website that this was going to be the last tour. So I don't think it's a reaction to all the attention that Diamond Jubilee has gotten this month. I'll be curious to see if there is a reaction to that success and maybe it won't be the last tour. Maybe it'll be like, oh, I'll keep this going.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if it's not. But I don't know. I've only seen YouTube clips of the live performances and it's like very intriguing. It's a very theatrical show, it seems like. Yeah, but I mean, I felt like a caged animal at that venue too. The soda bar, look, man, it's like the sort of, there's a bar running through the middle of the venue. Like, you'll see the saddest mosh pits there because, like, you can't gather more than 10 people in any given space. And if you're, like, shorter than six feet tall and not at the front of the stage, you can't see shit.

So aren't all mosh pits in 2024 kind of sad at this point? We're still moshing. Still doing this. I heard people were trying to mosh to hotline T&T. You can't do that, man. Like, not, I get it, but not that band. Come on. Settle down.

Channel your aggression elsewhere. There was no moshing at fish. Let's open up this fucking pit. Here's bouncing around the room. There might have been on the floor. I was in the 200 level, which is the best, I think, section to be in because you can see the band and you can also see the enormous screen. I wrote a long column about my experience at the Sphere on 420 weekend.

watching fish. So please go to Uprocks and check that out. You forgot to plug yourself. Didn't you write something about the Cindy Lee show? I did. It's on stereo gum. It's probably up by the time it's like it posted like while you were doing the intro. I got the email about that. Oh, there you go. Okay. See, I stumbled a few times recording the intro, which you won't hear. I must have gotten a disturbance in the force that there was new Ian Cohen content on the internet. I wrote about this in my column. You know, I've now seen U2NFish at Sphere. I've seen, I'm two for two on Sphere shows.

Dead & Co is next. I don't have a current plan to see Dead & Co. But never say never, could make a three for three. One interesting thing I think about going to these shows is how quickly you get acclimated to the screen and seeing these amazing images on screen. And look, there was some incredible stuff. You know, there was one particular song. It was a newer song called Pillow Jets.

Good tune. Where on the screen behind fish, there was like this sort of forest landscape. And then as the band started to jam, the trees turned into like fireworks. and the ground turned into like this molten lava thing and it was doing that for about 10 minutes and then the band stopped jamming and went back to the song and then it went back to what was the original forest landscape. Describing it does not do it justice.

I'm guessing this does not sound amazing as it was to see, but it was incredible. But the thing is, it's like you see something like that and then like the next song, it'll just be like a photorealistic image of a mountain. And yeah, it looks cool, but... it's easy to lose sight of like how technically amazing a lot of this stuff is because you just get used to it. It's like any kind of technology. You know, it used to be amazing that you could have an iPod and have 500 songs in your pocket.

Like people just went nuts about that. And now people have like a billion songs in their pocket and they're like, oh, where's the good music? I can't find music. You know, the terrible thing about technology and the wonderful thing about technology is that it brings these wonderful things into the world that we immediately find boring once we find it once we're around it enough. And I'm not saying sphere was boring. I'm just saying it's an interesting dynamic there with the imagery. I have to say too, the sound there is incredible. And it was even better for this show than it was for you too. And I think, I mean, Fish was like very particular about the sound and like they built a mini sphere in the rehearsal

space so they could make sure every seat in the house had like great sound. Um, But it really was like listening to music on your headphones, except you're in a concert venue. And at the end of like the last show, like Trey came out and like thanked everyone that worked on the shows. It's the first time I've ever been like in an arena where you could actually understand the person talking on stage. You know, normally like someone's on stage and they're talking. And it just sounds like bra-v-br-br-br-br-br-br-br-br. And then maybe they say the name of your town. You recognize that.

And everyone cheers. crystal clear, Trey's thank you. So it's unbelievable. So I don't know. I wrote a lot more in my column, 4,000 words. So if there's people out there in Indycastland

that want to read 4,000 words on fish at the sphere, you can do it on uprocks. Yeah. And you could read about Cindy Leon Stereo Gum written by Ian. I think I did about 25 Hondo on that one. There you go. Because, yeah, it's a lot of what we talk about,

you know, conversation there. love how when you were describing the sphere, like the trees turned into mountains. I'm like, damn, you were like creating some of the best post-rock band names and you don't even know it. That's right. That's right. Beautiful thing. All right. I got to rant about something here, Ian, a little bit. Tell them why you're mad, son. Well, okay, so the news about the latest class of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame dropped when I was in Las Vegas. It was on Sunday, I believe. And I was right before I was going to go down to the sphere to see the band.

It was right around the time I saw your pal, Ian. Shout out Jamil. Great to meet you last weekend. By the way, I was asking your, this is a friend of Ian's from college. I was asking him for embarrassing Ian college stories that I could share on the podcast. And he would not give it up. So he's a good friend. Yeah, he'd probably end up snitching on himself if he told any stories

about me because he's in a lot of them. He could just tell you about the summer we spent listening to like a junior, seniors album on repeat and watching Clerks the animated series. That's the sort of trouble we got into in college. So for those who don't know, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame class was announced last week and the inductees are Mary J. Blige, Cher, Dave Matthews Band, foreigner, Peter Frampton, Cool and the Gang, Ozzy Osbourne, and a tribe. called Quest. Now, I am a, well, and I should also say there's also some inductees in the

musical Excellence Award. These are people who weren't voted in, but they were just appointed to go in. And that's Jimmy Buffett, MC5, Dionne Warwick, and Norman Whitfield, a dream blunt rotation, if there ever was one. So, as I've discussed previously on the show, I am a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame voter. I voted for three of the people that were inducted this year. I voted for Cool and the Gang. I voted for Ozzy Osbourne and I voted for a tribe called Quest. So congratulations to those three.

Love all those acts. I think they're all deserving. I also voted for Jane's Addiction, Shanei O'Connor, Shadee, and a little band I like to call Oasis. and none of those people got in. I have to say, I didn't vote for Mariah Carey, but I'm stunned that she didn't get in. I thought that she was a lock to get in. I can't believe it.

Getting that number one pitchfork song of the 90s just didn't fucking move the needle. It just seemed like she had reached a point where she obviously has tremendous commercial success, but she's also now very critically acclaimed. You know, like this generation of critics loves Mariah Carey. She's regarded as one of the great pop stars of the 90s.

I just thought with this class that she would have gotten in. I'm a little surprised that Shaday didn't get in either, just because very well regarded. Although I guess judging by who did get in, like not famous enough. Dave Matthews band fine. In a vacuum, I'm fine with it, even though I could complain about artists who didn't get in.

To me, the egregious inductees this year are foreigner and Peter Frampton. And look, I'm a classic rock guy. I grew up listening to Classic Rock Radio. I don't hate either one of them. I'm not a big foreigner fan, really at all. There's some Peter Frampton songs I like. I respect his tenure as the guitarist and humble pie. Hats off to Peter Frampton.

But the analogy I would make with them, and I'm going back to quarterbacks here, they're Trent Dilfer. You look at Trent Dilfer, nice career, won a Super Bowl with the Baltimore Ravens, nice resume ended up on television, he's famous enough for me to use him as a reference point in this conversation. He's never going to the Pro Football Hall of Fame because everybody knows he's a journeyman. He's a journeyman quarterback. He's nice, but he was never. considered the best or one of the best quarterbacks of his time, which is usually how in sports, people decide who to vote for into the Hall of Fame. You look at their career and you're like,

okay, how many Pro Bowls did they go to? How many All-Star games? Were they one of the best players of their era? If they weren't, they don't get in. Peter Frampton, Foreigner, they are at best B-level 70s rockers. They should not be in. And to me, this spotlights, I'm going to keep banging this drum. This is my biggest complaint with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They are still biased against alt and indie rock bands from the 80s and 90s. There are so many great bands who are important bands from that time who haven't even gotten close to getting in. And I'll say Jane's Addiction is one of them and I'll say Oasis is absolutely one of them. Borener and Peter Frampton, it's like, do we still have ponytailed 70-year-old record executives voting for this shit?

tell me. I don't know who's in the field, but to me, it's like, are we just going to put every band from the 70s in? Are we just going to put everyone in? Yeah, I want Bachman Turner Overdrive in there. They're probably next. Yeah. They might already be in as far as I know. I like BTO more than I like for. Grand Funk. Yeah, is Grand Fun. I like Grand Fun. I like, I don't think they're in, but you know, who knows? I mean, Oasis is not getting in. I think is stupid. I really think it's stupid. This is a band that has a song that's one of the most stream songs ever in the history of streaming music. They are a popular band 15 years after they broke up. I don't understand not putting them in. It's stupid. And it's stupid to get upset about this

stuff, but this particular thing, because I feel like there's a movement to say, well, all the good rock bands are in. So we should be broadening the scope to include other people and other genres, which I'm fine with, like, I love that tribe called Quest got in. I voted for them. Like, I think rap group should absolutely be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But there are so many great

rock bands from like the non-boomer era that don't get in, ever, or it takes forever for them to get in. It's upsetting to me, Ian. As you can tell by the tenor of my voice, I am ranting about this, but I think it's total and utter just incompetence and malpractice by the voters of this institution.

It's stupid, Ian. I'm going to hold up the other poll to use a therapeutic term and say that, you know, Peter Frampton was on Homer Paloosa, Aquitine Hunger Force had the Foreigner Belt episode. You know, those are Hall of Fame moments, in my opinion. But, yeah, I think that, as far as I'm concerned with, like, foreigner, I want six months maybe where like every journey song you hear in a movie or on the radio gets replaced with an equivalent foreigner song like I can do that I can deal with that that's how I feel about foreigner and I vaguely remember I think it was Mark Ronson was like starting an actual lobbying firm for foreigners inclusion because

Mick Jones is stepped out or something but yeah I mean it this really doesn't make sense because like Mariah Carey absolutely should have made it you know Chaudet probably could have made it on like like some Kate Bush type shit. I wish we had like a phone line, like a call-in show so we can have our listeners tell us whether they think like foreigners more like Kerry Collins or like Jeff Garcia than he is Trent Dilfer. But yeah, I mean, OASIS to me, like I'm not actually surprised because when you look at, you know, foreigner and you look at a cool in the gang in Ozzy, they're like greatness kind of spread

out over a longer period of time. whereas Oasis has been popular for a very long amount of time, but their greatness is very concentrated. Yeah, but like, okay, then don't put in guns and roses and don't put in the sex pistols. You know, like, there are other bands that they... G&R instantly got in. But I think with Oasis,

it's a matter of, like, them not being seen as, and I'm going to use, like, extremely big scare quotes as important, you know? Well, I do think there's this bias against 80s and 90s men's, and it's even worse if you're not from America. I think British fans, like, from that era, are just totally... I mean, look how long... It took for the cure to get in. The cure!

How long did it take them to get in? It took them years to get in. I mean, they would have been... I think they finally got in in 2019. Their first record, I believe, came out. Was it 78? Yeah, 78 or 79. So they would have been eligible in 2004.

So it took them 15 years to get in. I wish we could... I wish we could pipe in that clip that you posted of Robert Smith on the red carpet. Right. Yeah, that show was amazing. Yeah, the woman who's like, oh, how excited are you? And Robert Smith's like, well, not as much as you. It's like, it's Robert Smith.

Come on, he's not going to be doing jumping jacks here about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But yeah, I don't know. And I'm not hating on foreigner and Peter Frampton. Just like I'm not hating on Trent Dilfer. Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring You know, like most, many players don't You know, like Damarino doesn't have a Super Bowl ring But Damarino is better than Trent Dilfer

Like no one would make that argument You know, no one would argue against that Dan Marino another great indie band from the 80s Yeah, I don't know It's just infuriating to me It's stupid they get mad about But I'm gonna keep banging this drum I think it's a stupid, egregious bias

That they need to get rid of They need to drop kick these graying ponytails out of the voting pool ASAP. Again, I'm going to push back just a little and say, I kind of want Oasis to not get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame every year because, you know, in lieu of getting any music or reunion, I think the Gallagher brothers commenting on getting rejected

from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is like way better than like what they would say if they actually got in. So, yeah, just kind of, I mean, have they released some sort of statement? Do you think they want to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? I'm not sure. I don't know. Everyone says it doesn't matter, but how can it not be flattering to get in? I'm sure if you get it, there's some part of you that must go.

Yeah, you get like a gift bag that's like really awesome, you know? It's like, look, I make fun of the Grammys all the time. If someone gave me a Grammy, I'd be freaking thrilled. Liner notes, baby. You do, yep, get the liner notes one. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. Let's change the subject here to something that's not so annoying.

Let's talk about the new album from the Austin duo Howdy. Now, for those who don't know about this band, they formed back in 2014, made up of two dudes named Charlie Martin and Will Taylor. They formed the band back in 2014, and they put out five albums, including their latest, which is out today, and it's conveniently called Howdy. and I guess you could call this a double record. I believe there's like 18, 19 songs or so, although it only clocks in at an hour.

And I say only as a positive thing. This is a very efficient record checking through these songs. And this band, they came into my consciousness with their previous record, which came out in 2021, which was called True Love. Really cool record, big fan of that album. Very likable record. If patio music were a genre, I feel like, Howdy is specifically making music targeted at the patio demographic.

It just sounds great out in the sunshine sitting on some sort of wood structure, sipping a beverage. I've actually test-driven this album, this new album already on the patio, Pass of Flying Colors. Curious to get your take on this band, Ian. Did you write about this record? I did. I don't think it's going to publish, like, tomorrow when this episode were gone.

But, like, you know, I'm writing. writing about this album for a pitchfork and um okay so you're reviewing it i am reviewing it and so any can you hint at all well we know you like the record we'll see what the score is but um the way i described this album is or this band i guess generally is to me they're like japan droids if they sounded like alex g because it's two guys and it seems like they're best friends there's a lot of warmth coming from their friendship. It just seems like their songs are about celebrating life and being together and just the good vibes of it.

But it doesn't sound at all like Japan droids. It just has that Alex G. Fractured folk rock, you know, with some, like, you know, pop influences infused in there as well. Does that make sense to you as a descriptor for this band? Yeah, I like how we both, like, separately came up with the similar. or hey, if JapanDroids sounded like X. I mean, like, first off, you know, it's got the both of them, like, arm over shoulder on the album cover, very celebration rock-esque.

I said, I feel like it was Japan droids if, you know, they grew up as Texas Jocks and they still liked each other. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. So, like, Friday Night Lights the album. Exactly, yeah. Because, yeah, they actually lit, it's interesting because, you know, they moved out of Austin. You know, they got married. I think one of them has kids now. They live in Nashville and St. Louis, respectively.

But, yeah, this is, I also like the fact that, like, Charlie Martin, Will Taylor, like, they're named after, like, their last names are both really expensive acoustic guitars. I don't know if that means anything. But, yeah, there's, they're the sort of band that, like, I've enjoyed on a song-by-song basis over the past few years. Like, they never really struck me as a band that would make the leap or even attempt to make the leap, like you were saying. It was kind of in that if you like Alex G. check out this band too. But, you know, they've done well. I know a lot of people who like them.

Very, very charming. I like the fact that they covered Colplay's warning sign on a cover's EP. And I think this really unlocked something in them because, yeah, it's like 19 songs, but it's only like 54 minutes long. And this is the sort of, I guess, album five leap that you don't typically see because, you know, like, the NBA, if we're going to, you know, harp on the sports cast beat, You know, the NBA just announced like their most improved player. And that typically is like a first round draft pick who kind of struggles in their rookie year.

And then they go ahead and like become an all star in year two or three. You know, they become the player that you always thought they would be. You know, and you don't see someone in year eight or nine get it. In the same way, sometimes with bands, when they make quote the leap, it's on album two or three where like the first one had some potential, but they hadn't really figured it out yet. Like, how he was like consistent and they were charming and they got better and better with each out. But this one is like a pretty significant jump over true love, which I really, really liked. And heavy lifter, which features Ruin My Ride, which might be the best porch music video ever made, you know, by any rocker.

It's, it's unbelievable. I get in so, it's sort of like what happened with rap boys last year. I think that's like the comparison I'd make where it's like they were maybe, like, you know, a band that could play a festival, wouldn't top line. I don't think this is going to make them famous or anything like that. But if you like anything that we talk about here on this podcast, you're going to dig it. I mean, I think between this and the good looks album that's coming out in a month, like we're, we got like a bumper crop of porch music.

We need like a wild pink album that materialize from this. You know, like a good looks howdy tour of patios would be amazing. They should just play patios this summer, like roll up to, you know, just go to like resort communities, like, wherever there's like maybe like a nice outside evening area by a lake and just like roll up. You know, because usually those places have some sort of like open mic stage set up. Just roll up in there, play some strummy tunes and watch the sun go down. Lake Mendota in Madison, Wisconsin. I was there last summer. Yeah, that's the kind of place.

should be playing. Mendoza. A Mendoza shout out, man. I love it. Yeah, it's interesting because I felt like, I mean, true love in this record are the ones I know the best. I haven't investigated deep on the previous three records,

but there is an element of this band where, like, if you want to talk about Alex G. Being Nirvana, howdy in a way is like Pearl Jam, in that it's like a more sort of welcoming, warm-hearted and populous version of what Alex G does, even though Alex G is obviously a very popular artist, but he, I think, is like a little more eccentric on his records.

He takes, he's a little more experimental, maybe, takes more chances. Howdy, to me, is in this comfort zone of taking that Alex G aesthetic and really making, and really kind of having, like, the warmth come out. I'm going to use the word warmth again, because that's what I get from this band. It's a very sort of like, if you want to hang out with your pals,

this is a good record to play. It just has such good vibes to it. And I feel like good vibes music, it's easy to undersell that because it's not something that is considered artistically exciting, and yet from a lifestyle perspective, that's the kind of thing that people need.

Like you need good vibes music, especially as we approach the summertime. And I think that this record will be just a perfect accompaniment for cookouts galore in the indie rock community. Like the indie rock community, if you're going to be grilling things, you're going to want this howdy album in your life. Yeah, I don't know if this line made it in the review, but I said that you could probably make a drinking game out of like every time they say the word love, friend or like a family or friend name or like an interstate in the southern United States take a drink. because you know you'll probably be like three beers deep in this when by the time it's done and that's like this is like a three beer buzz type of record it's like when you get it just right because like yeah it is good vibes because like they sing about family and they sing

about friends and they sing about like positive memories and um yeah i i'm like really interested to see how the edit comes out because i like warn them in advance like man i get kind of cornball with this shit but uh you know we'll we'll see yeah i know i really get into my emotions Well, if they cut out the cornball shit, you need to release the cornball cut. You know, we need the cornball cut because that's where the good stuff is, man. I like the cornballness. You need a little bit of cornballness in a record review. If it's a positive review and you love it, you got to have some of that in there.

It's radically cornball. I should have said that. Unapologetically cornball. Yep, exactly. Well, let's get to our mailbag segment. It's great to hear, as always, from our listeners if you want to hit us up. We're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read this email?

All right. Hello, Stephen and Ian. Recently, Menomina guaranteed Ian Yeh. Unknown Stephen Verdict. Released new music, and I swear within three seconds of listening, it was hard to exaggerate how obviously it sounded like a Menomina song. I know some bands like Interpol and the National who have collaborated with Menomona and Elvi for some Primo, remember some side projects material.

Get Flack for always sounding the same, but sometimes a band and an artist just have a singular sound. Do you have any examples you'll always defend, or some hater ones? To me, all Spencer Krug projects really always sound like him, weather and wolf parade, sunset, rub down, et cetera, and I really appreciate that. Also, moonface, I'm going to throw that in there.

I've gone on too long, but thanks. Been a day one listener, and frankly don't want to think about how long I've read your works. Thank you, Dan in Lakewood, Ohio. That sounds like a stop on the Howdy Porch Music tour. I was going to say Lakewood, Ohio would be a good band name. I like that. I would totally listen to Lakewood, Ohio.

I just picture them. Definitely have some pedal steel in that band. A bunch of flannel. I don't know. Defiance Ohio, it might be folk punk. Yeah, that could be like a British post-punk band too, like just someone. Because, you know, just like that band Mandy, Indiana. You know, maybe that's going to be.

Someone ripping them off. Good call. Lakewood, Ohio. You know, this is an interesting question because it does get back to that idea of sounding like yourself being a good or bad thing. I feel like sometimes people complain about, oh, this just sounds like them. Like they're doing this. Like, oh, like Bradford Cox, even if he's an Atlas Sound or a deer hunter, it just sounds like Bradford Cox.

I don't think that's a negative at all. I think having a distinctive sound is the mark of a great artist, even if it's an artist, or maybe not even a great artist, just an artist in general. You know, if you're an artist, you have a personality. You know, if you're someone who can just sound like anybody, I actually think that's kind of, that can be kind of hacky. You know, you can just be someone who, you know, you're like an impressionist. You're not someone who has your own voice.

So I don't know. This is a hard one for me to answer because I feel. like any artist this could apply to. Is there someone that you feel like this applies more to? Yeah, I mean, I think we got to give a shout to Mike Kinsella. Of course, he's got a new album as Owen out today. And it's funny because like he's made so many side projects, you know, whether it's American football or, you know, Owen or just any of his, like it always sounds like him. Like his voice is so unmistakable. I think the same is true with Connor Oberst and Ben Gibbard. And I think think it's true with all these guys because they not only sing the same way in numerous projects,

but they write the same exact way. They have very, very distinct ways of like writing lyrics. And, um, I mean, is there, is there an example of someone who doesn't sound like themselves? Like, they did a side project and you're like, holy shit, I can't believe they did that. I think that's a much tougher question because, you know, like, I could say like, there's a million Robert Pollard side projects that just sound like guided by voices. Like, I wouldn't know it was a guided by voices song or like Alexa. Lexo and the Leeper's song or something. But to me, it's a lot harder to answer the question, who has a side project where you're

like, wow, I would never have guessed that was them? Like, that to me, nothing's coming to mind for that. Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes you see like electronic side projects, for example. Right. Like, you know, that's a big part of it. Or, you know, like, I just think of like all the electronic, like the dubstep type instrumentals that come on a 1975 record. You know, if you were just like to portion them out, you wouldn't know it's them.

But, you know, but even if it is within their, you know, realm of influences. But yeah, I think, I think it's interesting because, like, if there were better versions of this phenomenon, like artists who don't sound like themselves, we'd probably remember it. But the ones we do remember are the ones that fall into, like, fall into the umbrella of this, like, really, really distinct sensibility. Also, I love the fact that he talked about Interpol sounding the same, even though Paul Banks has made like several rap albums. Right. I guess that would be an example. Everyone on my dick like they're supposed to be. We always need to find a way to talk about that.

Yeah, you wouldn't expect that. So I guess that's an example. But that's also an example of thinking, well, maybe he should just sound like Interpol. You know, maybe it was a bad idea to sound different from him. what they did. Did we get your verdict on Menominae yet, though? Oh, you know, it's interesting. I don't have a strong take on them, really. I've listened to them. I mean, I guess I'll say yay, because I've enjoyed them, but I haven't gone deep with them. I have to say, I've probably listened to Elvi more than Monomano. And I'm an Elvai defender.

I like Elv, I like that record. Return to the Moon. and I know I'm alone on that on this show. I've actually seen Elvi live. That's how deep I go with Elvi. But yeah, I like that record. But that's probably the most experience I have with Monomona, really. Like, where should I get started with Monomano? It's funny because, like, they have the Elvi project.

And I think there was another one. One of the other guys started with another guy in that remote. It's something falls in the name. I can't believe I'm like failing my own, and remember some guys test. And I think one of the guys also ended up joining Block Party as the bassist. So a very interesting post career. But I would start with, I mean, the first three albums, I Am the Fun Blame Monster is awesome.

Mines is like one of the most down bad albums from an indie rock band you'll ever hear. It is just so fucking depressing. But it's great. And somewhere in between, I think a friend or friend. is probably the most popular one. But yeah, I mean, this thing, it sounds like I was immediately having like epic Bacon Bill Murray era flashbacks when I listened to this EP that came out because I think a lot of it is from 2000.

Like, I think these are like B-sides that were reanimated. And one of them actually has Brent Knopf singing lead again, which is amazing because Menomina, if they're known for anything outside of their music, it's that like they are a band notorious for like really hating each other. There was an article in a Portland, they're from Portland, they're in like a Portland all weekly, just about like how, like just how awful it was to be in that band. They were just fighting all the time.

And so I'm hoping that, you know, time has healed those wounds and maybe we'll get some music. I mean, I don't think any of their albums has totally knocked it out of the park. Friend or Foe, is probably the most consistent. Mines has the highest peaks. and moms, the last one they made. It has its moments, but I think they were kind of running its course. It wasn't as good without Brent.

So, yeah, I love talking Menomina. Yeah, well, thank you for that. I'll start digging into Menomino. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call a Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week, Ian, watch for first. Yeah, I had had trouble picking one because there are just a lot of really cool under the radar things that have come out recently. I was just going to quickly give a shout to Ulaung self-titled and the new goalie's anxiety at the penalty kick record. But I wanted to talk specifically about a record came out last week from a band called CU Space Cowboy.

The album's called Couda Gras because we got to celebrate San Diego Excellence wherever we can get it. This is a band that's taken up the mantle of what people often call SAS Corps. They often call it that. Yes, they do. it emerged out of San Diego in the early 90s. It was white belts, Spock haircuts, the Locust Nation of Ulysses.

To people who are my age and not dialed into that stuff, I'll just say it sounds like the Blood Brothers. And this album is really going for it in a way that you don't hear that often because they've gotten like more melodic and accessible over time, but there are riffs on this album that are pretty clear ripoffs of Block Party's Banquet

and also Andrew K's, Andrew WK's Party Hard. But yeah, but multiply that by AFI going major label on Sing the Sorrow. I love the fact that it came out on the same day on the same label as the Cloud Nothing's album. Shout to Pure Noise, y'all are killing it this year. It's like, it's an acquired taste for sure. and, you know, I'm just going to preface by saying it was produced by the guy who did the first panic at the disco record. But, yeah, it's an amazing, it's just like an amazing piece of work in what it does. It's a lot of fun.

I think you might find some parts that you enjoy. They're just going for it. And I love that for them. I got to say some of the description that you just gave is not enticing me. But if you think I would enjoy parts of it, I'll take your word for it. You know, I want to talk about the new Justice album that's out today, hyperdrama, because I am a fan of French electronic music in general and justice in particular. But I haven't heard this record yet.

So I can't, in good conscience, recommend it. I have enjoyed the singles, though, so I have high hopes that this is going to be a good record. So just wanted to mention that there's a new Justice album out today. Instead of that, I'm going to go old school. I'm going to go old school here. I'm going to go with an album that I think I would have inducted into the Indycast Hall of Fame, but I don't want to wait to do that, so I'm going to talk about it in Recommendation Corner. It's an album called Earth, Sun, Moon, and it's by a band called Love and Rockets.

And I've been listening to this record a lot lately. I've been revisiting it. And I just feel like this band is a little unsung when we talk about bands from the 80s that came from England and were involved in the alternative rock of that era. You know, we know about The Cure, obviously. We know about Bauhaus. We know about Echo and the Bunny Men. Love and Rockets gets a little lost in the shuffle there,

but their album's Earth, Sun, Moon, and the self-titled Levin Rockets record, which came out in 1989, which has the song So Alive. And if you know any Levin' Rocket's song, it's probably So Alive. That's like their big hit. awesome song, like just one of the great late 80s alt rock hits. This band, I just love their aesthetic. You've got drum machines, you've got like a lot of drone, you have acoustic guitar, and you have this sort of like Jim Morrison-y type singer.

And it just has tons of vibe, kind of psychedelic, kind of garage rock. I feel like if this band is unsung and people start rediscovering Love and Rockets, this record sounds so contemporary to me. I feel like it could be easily ripped off and I turned into something new. Again, it's got like a little bit of a got a goth vibe to it as well. Just a really cool band.

And I just want to bring them back into greater consciousness. Particularly, again, Earth, Sun, Moon, which came out in 87 and the self-title record. If you like that era of like British alt-rock, atmospheric music, then you haven't listened to this band, I think you're really going to love it.

it. So going old school here today, a potential Indycast Hall of Fame candidate for me, Earth, Sun, Moon by 11 Rockets. Have you ever listened to this band? I'm a so alive only person, but I like the potential because, of course, you know, when I heard it on the radio as like, you know, in elementary school, I didn't think, oh, this is like really in the realm of like Jim Morrison and T-Rex. I think that that song gives me a sense they might be getting kind of hymbo with it, which I always love. That's like them, yeah, that's them being straight. This record that I'm talking about came out before that. It's not as Hymbo-ish. Okay. It's a little more, it feels like a little more kind of 60s influence, like a little more against psych rock.

The self-title record is definitely more streamlined. And again, in a great way. Like, that's a record that you could play in strip clubs. And it would totally work. It's the more human than human of late 80s British rock. But, no, I'll check it out because, like, you were. definitely on the money when you recommended the water boys. And like I listened to that. I'm like, holy shit, how have I like missed this my whole life? And I think this will be a good one to go to.

Also, the only thing, I learned a little bit about Love and Rockets because when Jane's Addiction was coming up and I did the Sunday review of nothing shocking, Jane's addiction went on tour with Love and Rockets back when they were kind of nobody's and they just get like booed like off the stage every time. See, that would be an amazing tour. That would actually, and that pairing makes a lot of sense, too. Like, those bands actually would be amazing together.

Love and Rockets fans, don't boo Jane's addiction. Come on. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash,

Indy and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.