Indiecast - Our Favorite Albums Of 2023

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

It's that time of the year again when critics try to think of every record they heard in the previous 11 months and determine their favorites. Steven and Ian are up to the challenge in this week's episode. But first they talk about the stock albums that seem to populate these lists — the "arty" and "obscure" hip-hop record with an unpronounceable name, the near-unlistenable "acclaimed" death-metal record, the "accessible" jazz album with indie cred. etc.From there they do a quick Sportscast about Steven's recent love of college football (13:12). They also discuss Taylor Swift being named Person Of The Year by Time magazine and how the media was weirdly in the tank for her all throughout this past year (20:39). Finally, Steven and Ian each pick their five favorite albums of the year, and hash out the trends that defined 2023 (29:16).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 167 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we discuss our favorite albums of 2023. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's my number three emo album of the year. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? I'm glad you've got your favorite emo list going because I, you know, Our editor, Phil, always says, like, yeah, I always get update statuses from listening to Indycast about your articles. And I'm still shaping my emo album list, but man, it's just really fucking tough to do this year. And I think we're going to talk about my particular difficulties with list making of any sort in 20203. But, yeah, I'm trying to think what's behind awake but still in bed and home is where. Like, the three spot is very open right now. See, I like that you communicate with Phil via podcast.

You know, we don't need Slack. We don't need email. You just record a podcast and that's how you communicate with your editor. I think that's a great way to go. My list just went up. And when I say just went up, I'm talking about Thursday morning as we record this. I said this last week, I had a great time making my list this year. a little creative with it. It's a top 25

list, but I wrote about 51 albums on my list, and that's because I have various sublists on my list. Some of which are indie cast inspired. Like I did a albums that I liked the idea of more than the actual albums

list. And of course, well, I won't say who topped the list. I think we probably can guess who topped that list. And then I did more serious sub-lists on there as well, but I had a great time making the list. I'm curious, like, for you at this point, do you still read lists? Because I can say for myself, like, I don't read much music writing in general at this point. I feel like I've read my fill of music writing in my life already.

I think I, you know, exhausted my lifetime supply by the time I was like 35, 36. because you get to a certain age and you realize that the thoughts that people feel like are original in their 20s have actually been recycled many times. Like thoughts I thought were original in my 20s, I'm now seeing writers in their 20s, right? And I'm like, oh yeah, I was just doing my version of what people were writing in the 90s, like when I was writing in the odds.

It's the circle of life. And you just realize there's only so many cliches that you can go through. There's exceptions. I mean, there's writers who transcend that kind of thing. But by and large, you feel like you've read like the 12 different record reviews that exist, right? Am I wrong? Yeah.

I feel like that's true. No, that's absolutely true. Yeah. So I don't really read a lot of it anymore. I don't really care what's on other people's list. I'm not invested. I don't get upset if something is left off of someone else's list. like I might have 10 years ago.

Do you find yourself still invested in that kind of thing? Because again, I loved making my own list. I care about my own list, but I don't really care about other people's lists. And maybe I'm just self-absorbed. I don't know. Are you engaged with list season? Are you reading a lot of lists?

Are you keeping tabs on what albums are doing well and which ones aren't? I mean, in a lot of ways, Indiecast is my way of like processing grief about how much I used to care about these lists. Like I mean, nowadays like Pitchforks list publishes I think it like six or seven and it publishes on the morning. Whereas like 2011, 2012, I think it used to post like everything else at like midnight and like it was like Christmas for me. Like even though I was like making part like making the list and so forth like back in those days like all this season. was maybe it was more like Hanukkah in the sense that like, you know, there were a couple

of big gifts, but you get sprinkled, a couple little neat knickknacks and treats throughout the weekend. But, you know, as I get older, you know, Hanukkah eventually just morphed into, okay, here's your one big gift, and then eventually it's, you know, your parents just give you a check, get whatever the fuck you want. And, you know, nowadays, like, I don't feel the same sense of ceremony. Like, it just feels like an exhale. when list season happens rather than, you know, like a culmination. Like there's the surprise, the spark, it just seems to have left. And which is really strange because I've been less engaged with the narrative than I had in

any previous year and like listening to less music just because I have less time for it. And yet when year-end list season comes, it still feels as anticlimactic, if not more so, than it has in the past. because, you know, I just feel like we're so engaged. Like, not, we're immersed in it, but not really engaged of it. And so, you know, I'm not surprised by anything that comes out. Like, I think all publications are basically during the same, I'm going to use a cooking term, Mirrepois, you know, the basic, like the rue, if you will, of like Boy Genius, Lana, Olivia Rodriguez.

And each publication gives you, it's, you know, they throw their own spice in there. And that's where the discovery happens. like that's the part that is important to me because like I really need your end list these days. I'm like, what did I miss? Like what's actually good? What is worth my time? And so like hopefully I'll get, I don't know, five albums that we can talk about when we do our indie Cassie's mid year and the 2024. It's like what 2023 albums really hit for you?

So yeah, I mean, I think it's about individual lists for me at this point. I think the big publication, you know, like we're just getting a bunch of, input from a bunch of people. Those lists are less interesting than just if there's individual people who I like their perspective or I'm aligned with their taste, I definitely want to see what they're talking about for the reasons that you just said. You know, if you miss certain albums, it's good to catch up with them that way. You know, my interest in year-end list at this point, because I'm not really reading them,

but I do skim them. I'm interested in like the stock year end list albums that you haven't heard of at all throughout the year and then they end up on these lists and then not a word is spoken of them again. You know, like it's like these publications could be making up these albums for all I know. Like they may not actually exist, but I wouldn't know I'm just taking their word for it. Like my two favorite sort of stock year end list albums. And these aren't the albums that top the list, but they're the ones that, like, are in the middle between, like, 20 and 35. The first one is, like, the artie and obscure rap record with, like, an unpronounceable name. That's one.

And the other one is, like, the near-unlistenable death metal album. Maybe that's the one. That one might have the unpronounceable name, too. Like those, they do share commonalities. It's like, you look at these lists and there's always like two or three of those kinds of albums where you're like, where did this album come from? Like, why was this the album of this type of album, the one that bubbled up? You know, and look, I'm not knocking these records. I'm sure they're fine, but it just seems like that type of record is going to end up on a year end list as opposed to like a really good.

maybe like down the line indie rock record, you know, which is anathema now, I feel like, to a lot of year-end list. Like, you're just a solid indie rock band. You made, like, a really good record. You're not going to attract critics who want to put you on a list. But if you're, like, an obscure rapper who has, like, you know, a couple parentheses in their name and, like, weird capitalization and lowercase combinations, or you're, like, a death metal band from Florida that maybe has some weird progressive angle to your music, something like that,

you're going to end up on one of these lists. Like, you've got a good shot. Yeah, we can also include, like, the ambient album that somehow arises from the Merck. Like, I'm fascinated by those because, like, in the same way, I'm fascinated by any sort of, like, deep subgenre. Like, I've sometimes, like, you know, compared ambient music of that sort to, like, hockey in that. I can't really tell, like, quite who's good, but if, like, I can recognize the names, you know, it's like, ah, I've seen that guy talked about. Like, I know they're good, but, like, if I did just, like, a blind watch or a blind listen, yeah, I probably wouldn't be able to tell. But those, those typically come up at, like, number 44. They feel more 44 than 20 to 30 feels like the more, like, fifth album of a legacy artist. Like, hey, yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's, like, where. I find, you know, your Eves tour is popping up in, uh, in, uh, in, uh, 20, 23. But yeah, I love those. I love those

because there's like, got to be like two or three, like, extreme music people at each publication. And like, that's their number one. Right. So I got to respect that. And like the death metal guy is also going to be the one who writes about the jazz record that has some kind of mainstream crossover. And like, when you have the list, like, that's going to be at number 40 or 40. It's going to be like the first album you see. So like when you read the list, you're like, oh, wow, there's some eclectic taste here. They're writing about a jazz record. Oh, my God.

And it's like maybe the only jazz record on the list. Like the jazz record that like maybe involves a member of tortoise. Or is like a jazz guy and like an electronic guy making a record together. You know, that might get you into a year-end list. And look, we're kidding here. I've put some of these records on my list. So I'm not, you know, pointing and laughing other people. I'm including myself in this as well.

Just the grist, the fodder for year-end list. I mean, these are the kinds of records that just end up on the list. And they, and I feel like they disappear immediately after this season is done. You know, like no one remembers any of those albums. Like, like by January 10th, they're already memory hold. You know, like we've already forgotten about all. all those records that are just popping up on all these year-end lists. Yeah, I'm looking at my, like, I make an hour-long mix for myself every month,

and I'm looking at December 22. And the exact album you're talking about is the Sam Pre-Cup and John McIntyre's Sons of record from last year. That one with the cats on the laundry, laundry machine. I listen to that all the time in December, and, like, once the calendar turned, I forgot about it completely. Great record, but also Dawn Richard and Spencer Zon. Daniel, yeah, oh my God, there are so many of those ambient.

Every December, this mix I make for myself is filled with like ambient music and like seven minute electronic songs because that's the stuff I'm catching up on at the end of the year. It's like that stuff can fly under the radar because I don't know, maybe it's like not, you know, album of the week at Stereo Gummer, best new music. But like, oh, they're ready to pop up at number 43 come December. Say, like, in the future, I'm just envisioning a box set like Nuggets. You know, like, Her Nuggets was a box set that collected, like, garage rock bands from the 60s that people forgot, but it's like, all these are really cool songs. In 30 years, someone's going to have, like, a nuggets like box set, but it's just going to be for, like, death metal and jazz albums that were on year-end lists in the 2010s and 20s that were immediately forgotten about. We'll just do a compilation of all those albums and people can revive them in the future. I think that would be a good project for like

Compact pop ambient That thing actually exists though For at least for electronic and ambient music Let's get Numero Numero Group We'll get you guys on Just pencil that in for like You know 2043

Stop reissuing obscure emo bands from 1998 We're gonna get into the real stuff You've exhausted that demographic Yeah we're gonna do We're gonna do critical favorites Of the 2010s and 20s Can we do a quick sports cast

here. I know we got the, people are excited about our albums of the year, but I got to do a quick sports cast here because I feel like, you know, we had a college football discussion earlier this year, I think in September or so. And I was taking some shots at college football. I think I said that it was just running backs, running into the line of scrimmage for 60 minutes, something to that effect. And I feel like we have to revisit this because I, I.

have been big into college football lately, Ian. Ever since the Ohio State Michigan game, I've been hooked. And I've watched enough college football, which isn't that much. But I'm engaged enough that I actually have an opinion about the college football playoff. Like there's been so much discourse about that this week. I listen to mostly sports podcasts during the week. When I'm going on my walk, I listen to sports podcasts. People complaining about Florida State not getting in.

For those who don't know, the college football playoff, there's four teams that make it. And there's a committee that decides who gets in. And they picked Michigan, number one. Then they picked Washington. Those teams were both undefeated. They picked Alabama, who beat your Georgia Bulldogs this weekend. I'm sorry about that. And then they put, well, actually, they put Texas at number three because they beat Alabama.

And then Alabama's at number four. FSU was undefeated. They didn't get in. Again, I'm very uninformed as a college football fan, but I still have an opinion on this. I love this selection. I know enough about Florida State that they lost their quarterback two weeks ago. So they're like really boring at this point. They can't score really any points.

Meanwhile, you have Michigan and Alabama, two massive asshole coaches going head to head. On January 1st, I can't wait to watch that. Am I just falling victim to the beauty pageant mentality in college football here? Ian, do you have an opinion on this? Do you feel like Georgia should have made it? I mean, you guys won, what, like 29 in a row or something? Or 27 in a row? How many games in a row was it?

It was 29 games in a row, but the important things that only one of them was against Alabama, I can assure you there was not a single Georgia fan, at least once I know, who was fully confident going into that game. It's just the Alabama as a team that has their number. But that being said, that made the 2020 championship so much more cathartic. It was similar to how when the Eagles won the Super Bowl, it meant a lot more they beat the Patriots rather than the Jaguars, who the Patriots beat in the AFC Championship. But look, is Georgia one of the four best teams in college football? Probably.

Did they have just, like, shitty timing with that loss? absolutely. But I'm actually glad that this is the part of college football that intrigues you because, you know, I remember the first time around. You know, I described it as being kind of more like indie rock in the sense that it's like more regional. It's emotional. It's scrappy. Like, it's not always interested in pure wins and losses of success in the way pop is. But there's also an element of professional wrestling to it or as you described, the beauty pageant, where it's like theatrical and totally. corrupt. Maybe that's sort of like, I guess, like Premier League soccer. And yeah, I think those two things make it very unique. It makes it different than the NFL. Unfortunately, what we're seeing now is that I think they're going to expand the playoffs and go to like a two-conference Super League. And, you know, I think that like, yeah, you can see college football at its best by watching Michigan State and Ohio State. But I think that there are so many more interesting

things happening below the radar. Like Thanksgiving weekend, no one should give a shit outside the state of Mississippi about like the egg bowl. But like, in a way that like you cannot replicate when the Lions play the Bears or even when I'm going to say the Packers playing the Vikings, like the fan bases of those two teams fucking hate each other in a way that is so very real that one of these teams could go five and seven. But as long as they beat the other team, that was a good year. The NFL has no equivalent to that. Like, Like, I've been in years where like the Eagles were like shitty and maybe they'll beat the cowboys in one important game. But I don't remember that.

Like I remember the one year that Virginia beat Virginia Tech in the past 20. See, I love the indie rock analogy because, you know, I'm getting into, you know, the Ohio State Michigan game. That's like the national of college football. Whereas you're, you're busting out the obscure matchups here. You're like, no, you should be listening to, you know, I don't know, name. I don't know who the indie rock equivalent of that... The Egg Bowl, I don't know. I would say that's probably...

I'm going to say more like... That would be like equivalent to like some of your more like patio bands, I would say. Yeah, maybe that's like, you know... A slightly drunker patio rock band. They're a little more like... They're a little more chugly than Virginia, Virginia Tech. The Egg Bowl is Bonnie Dune. Okay, we'll say they're Bonnie Dune.

I mean, the one thing or one of the things I don't like about college football is, how padded the records are, like how you have these big-time programs that are playing, you know, East Wyoming University in September. And that's how they get their undefeated records. That's why like this Florida State discourse about how, well, they're undefeated so they should be in. Like, I don't buy into that at all because a lot of these records, I just feel like half the games are just right in victories, you know, whereas Alabama, you know, yeah, they lost to Texas early in the year, but they played Texas early on. Yeah, but they also played like a lot.

They played like Southern Florida. Well, of course. They're all padded. They're all gaming the system. So I don't like that part of it. But, but you know, if you start watching in November, I feel like college football is, I've been having a good time. So I just felt obligated in a public forum to tell you that I'm getting into college football. I felt like that was an important thing for me to say after. my dismissive comments on the sport a few months ago.

I will say, though, that with Al-a-like, it might, yes, of course, they're the games like, you know, Florida State playing north of Alabama, but Alabama almost lost to Arkansas. They almost lost to Auburn. And, like, those are the random games that, to me, make college football interesting. Like, out of nowhere, you'll see just like one of those garbage teams in a conference game beat Alabama or beat Texas. And it just makes absolutely no sense. And that's way more exciting than, like, say,

if the Patriots were to somehow beat the dolphins. Well, and Alabama had that ridiculous fourth and 31 play against Auburn. The fourth and 26 of college football, man. Yeah, well, thank you for bringing that up. In most cases, in the pros, you would never be able to do that. No. So just like the shitty defense in college sometimes results in these incredible plays. So anyway, I'm into it.

that's the end of sports cast So, okay, I know we're all excited to get to our albums here. I'm excited to, but I feel like, okay, we got to talk about Taylor Swift here quickly. And this is not indie rock. I'm sorry. We have sports cast. We have indie rock.

We're going to give you a lot of indie rock here in a few minutes. But Taylor Swift was named Person of the Year by Time magazine this week. And I think it's deserved. She clearly has dominated the news cycle

in every way, shape, and form. this year. So the actual honor, I think, is deserved. Did you read the article? Wild. That went with this? It's like the first interview she's done in a long time. And, I mean, the interview

is one thing. You know, just what her quotes, which just confirm, I saw someone tweet this, and I have to agree that she is like the most uncool superstar, maybe of all time in music. Like, you know,

you compare her to like Madonna or Prince or Michael Jack you know like the biggest of the big stars she's so uncool compared to them but like the writing in this story I just feel like it's so indicative of how the media is in the tank for Taylor Swift to an unprecedented degree like

I have a book coming out next year, and I'm sorry to plug this, but I have a book next year about Bruce Springsteen and born in the USA. And one of the things I read about in that book is that there was a backlash against Bruce Springsteen after that album was so successful. Because not only was that album a big success, but the way he was written about, he was written about almost like he was a political figure. Like people were so worshipful of Bruce Springsteen in the press that you started to see in 1985 the year after the album came out

you started to see people reacting against that there was a famous article called the hagiography of Bruce Springsteen and it was a GQ article and it just ripped Bruce Springsteen and also just ripped the way people talked about him

in a way that like I don't agree with necessarily because I love Bruce Springsteen but I could see why that felt cathartic in 1985 and after Bruce Springsteen just being shoved down people's throats, like Jordan Belford in the Wolf of Wall Street, selling Steve Madden's stock. We're going to shove it down your throats until you choke.

And that's where we're at with Taylor Swift, but there's no pushback at all in the media. There's a moment in that interview where the writer is talking about Taylor Swift and how she has framed her own narrative in terms of the backlash that she suffered in 2017 around that time, around the time of reputation.

People were taking her to task because of the Kanye West stuff and some people blamed her for not endorsing Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election, which for the record, I thought, was stupid at the time and I think it's stupid now.

But the way she framed that in this interview, she talks about how she was almost canceled or she felt that she was canceled. Even though that album sold over a million copies, in its first week, and she did a big stadium tour behind it. I mean, she definitely faced a lot of criticism at the time. But to say that she was canceled, it's sort of like every celebrity or most celebrities that say that they're canceled.

It just comes across as you're a narcissist, you're in your own world, like you don't have perspective on your own life. And the writer, he makes note of this, and he says, you know, I could push back on this, but because she believed she was canceled... I think it's valid. Basically saying, as a journalist, I'm not going to push back against this. I'm going to roll over and let Taylor Swift dictate not only how she's perceived, but how she's perceived in this article. Like at the end of the article, he actually says, I feel like Taylor Swift wrote this article herself.

And there's no irony in that. He's not saying it like in a critical way. He's saying it in a wow, she's so amazing kind of way. Yeah, I experienced this article through screenshots throughout most of the day because I was at work and most of my coworkers just absolutely worship Taylor Swift in a way that is kind of endearing. But I think that what stood out to me after having read the article is the confluence of like how Taylor Swift has become this godlike figure in the same time that like therapy and like therapists have also become. more of a godlike figure in that like when you read what taylor swift is saying about herself it just seems so patently absurd but we've learned to consider that people's subjective reality like might really be their reality and it's tough to push back on that and invalidate it like that is

her experience and like it was just so strange to actually see what this person talks like um You know, it feels like I can't, it's so, it's like uncanny. And you have to wonder like whether it's a, someone who's just extremely well-coated and kind of a cynical mastermind of generating poll quotes like the goth punk line about reputation. I mean, that's like a form of genius or if there's someone who's just completely lost their ability to communicate in an original life. Well, there was a quote in there. There was a quote in there where she said, she talks about Travis Kelsey.

Right. And how they started dating it's something like, Travis put me on blast on his podcast, which was so metal of him. And I'm like, do you know what any of those words mean? Like, on blast on a podcast? And like, how is it metal to talk about Taylor Swift on a podcast? Fascinating. That seems like the least, that's like the least metal thing I've ever heard in my life. Yeah.

But she said it, so we can't question it. If she believes it's metal, then I guess it's metal. You know, that's the new journalism with Taylor Swift. If she believes it, it's true. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I just like imagine, like, dating a, a rumor to date Maddie Healy and also like a guy who catches passes in the NFL who are like very well known for just having like this weird relationship with the English language

and your interview seems way more alien. I don't know what it could take right now for her to like actually, I mean, she did not release an album of new material this year. Like, you, like, that, that is a possibility for next year. So, you know, we are, like, what's it going to take for us to, like, move on from this? Like, could she withstand a I stand with Israel post? I mean, it's fascinating to consider right now. I mean, my only question for Taylor Swift fans is, like, are we good now?

Like, is it enough now? I think about my favorite artists of all time and the ones I'd listen to all the time and I feel like I could never get sick of. But like if that person was as famous as Taylor Swift, like I feel like I would start to get sick of her at some point. Even if I loved her music. Because it's just everywhere. I just feel like, again, it's the Jordan Belfort shoving Steve Madden's stock down your throat. Even if you love the taste of Steve Madden's stock, I feel like at some point, you're going to start choking on it. So I don't know when that arrives, though.

You know, like the women in your office or the people in your office, they're not there. yet. They're the barometers that we're going to use for America. Oh, absolutely. They are way more, they are way more indicative of where our culture is at than us. Yeah, I'm glad you're there. I'm glad you're there just for the podcast. You know, it's a great resource for us. Okay, enough Taylor Swift. Let's get to our best albums of 2023. So before we get into it, you said something interesting earlier about how you haven't felt very engaged with new music. this year, which makes me very curious to hear what your top five is here. But, I mean, my sense is that this was a really good year. And I said this last week, I don't think that there was like a

dominant masterpiece this year. And I think some of these lists are bearing that out because you're seeing Sizz's record topping a lot of lists. And that didn't even come out this year. It came out at the end of 2022. And even if you want to say like year of impact, that's still like very early in the year. It's not typical that like the album that tops a lot of lists comes out that early. Mary Weather Post Pavilion comes to mind. Right, exactly. That's a good example. But it's rare, I think. And it just tells me that there wasn't like a dominant record, but there were a lot of doubles and triples. And I feel like that's true of my list. And I kind of like those years. I like the doubles and triples years. In a way, I feel like those records age better because they don't have as much

baggage attached to them. Sometimes albums get written about so much that you, it can't help it affect how you hear it. But I don't feel like there were a lot of records like that this year. So I don't know. I really like this year. I think that this was like maybe my favorite year of this decade so far. Yeah, I think that it's been,

I think since Fetched the Bolt Cutters, there hasn't been a straight up like, you know, hit it out of the park, stand and watch. it for like five seconds like Bryce Parker. So it does make for a more interesting conversation. But that being said, there is like this package deal of five albums that's going to be at the top. So it's, but yeah, let's get into it.

Well, and I'll go first because I feel like my number five is maybe in that package. Although maybe not. I don't know. Like my top five, I mean, I love my list. I feel like my top five is a little chalkier than the rest of my list. I like to think that I have a lot of albums on my greater list that haven't popped up in a lot of places. But my number five record is 100 gecks, 10,000 geeks. Would you say that's in that bucket of five?

It's in the 10. I thought this was going to be your number one. No, it's my number five. I love this record. I think it was my number one mid-year record. So I guess it's falling a little bit. But I love it. And it's a record that, and I wrote about this in my blurb, I think because of the business we've chosen as music critics, you want to intellectualize this record.

I think there's an instinct to try to explain a deeper meaning behind what appears to be just like a very stupid, fun record. But I'm going to resist that instinct. I really think that the superficial appeal of this record is the appeal of it. You put it on. It's really fun. It makes you feel good. It is the most sort of immediately satisfying and visceral record, I think, that I heard in 2023.

So I don't know if this ended up on your... We haven't seen each other's lists. So I don't know what's on your list. But yeah, this record's so fun. And I've seen it on a lot of lists. But I don't know. It still isn't sullied by that critical favorite status for me. It's such a fun.

record, it's my number five of the year. Yeah, 100 Gex definitely made my year end list, maybe not top five, but it's definitely up there. It's an album that gives me whatever, it gives me the exact thing of promises, and many people have over-intellectualized it, but at the end of the day, it's just like a really fun, energetic record that I can throw on for 30 minutes, and it'll make my day. For my number five, it's in a way similar to 100 Gex, in the sense that it brings a lot of lot of like quote unquote junk culture.

It does not do so for 30 minutes at a time. This is kind of a cop out to say DJ Sabrina, the teenage DJ's destiny is my number five. Now, we've talked about this on previous episode. It's four hours long and it's very consistent. And I'll never listen to this in one sitting. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've even finished it in the span of one day, even when I'm like listening to it while I do everything.

But the reason it's here is that it reminds me of records like, you know, Avalanches since I left you or DJ Shadow or the first couple girl talk records where anytime I hear those, I think, you know, these albums are too pure. They're too good for this earth. There's no way we could get something like this in 2023, you know, with all music being available and just being so, just so immune to that thrill. And yeah, every time I press play on Honey, if you're going to listen to one song from this, it's the eight-minute intro. Every time I listen to it, I'm just in a better mood.

I can probably throw it on shuffle and get the same effect. Like, this is going to be the most, it's the most giving and generous album for me. Like, I do wonder if in the future this will be held up as like some sort of, I don't know, maybe if not masterpiece, but an important album. I do really wonder.

Or whether, like, whether their next one's just going to be like a 45-minute banger or like whether they're just going to keep going and going and going and doing like eight hours. But, yeah, this one,

have I listened to it the fifth most times of any album I listened to it? 23, absolutely not. But I just love it. I love it. conceptually and I love the execution. And if you haven't heard it yet, give it 30 minutes of your time. See how you feel.

See, I didn't put this on my master list, but I mentioned the sub-lists on my list and the sub-list of I like the idea of this album more than the album. Like, this was my number two album on that list. And that's not a knock on the album. Because I like it for all the reasons that you said. It's just the fact that it's four hours long and I've never listened to it in its entirety. I listened to it for about maybe four years. or 45 minutes at a time.

And for those 40 and 45 minutes, it sounds great. It's just that you'd have to spend an entire work week to get through it. I do think that the next album that they make, if it is that 45-minute album, if it's like their discovery, you know, daft punk, if they manage to do that, I think that's going to be a world-beating record. This feels like a laboratory where they're working

and they're just trying out so many. different ideas and the heads are going to love this record, but I think if they can distill it into a more digestible package, it's going to be a really fun record. But yeah, I mean, look, this is just super fun dance music that takes you back to, you know, the heights of, you know, 80s pop, disco, that whole thing. It's like candy. It's a very enjoyable listen for about 40 to 45 minutes at a time. So I like that choice. My number four pick, is Mitzki, the land is inhospitable, and so are we. And Mitzky's in an interesting place right now because she's undeniably one of the biggest stars in Indy.

But she's taken an approach to her public-facing persona that in a lot of ways feels old-fashioned. Like she is not a person who's appearing on every talk show. You know, she's not appearing on other people's albums all the time. You don't see her popping up on stage with the food. Foo Fighters or whoever. You know, she is this very enigmatic person for like a modern indie celebrity. And of course, you know, we can get into why that's been the case. Some of the weirdness that she's had to deal with with, you know, online fan communities.

But I find it really refreshing, especially in conjunction with this record, which really gets Mitzki back to what she does best, which is creating these evocative musical worlds that feel very unique to her. And just the aesthetic of this record, you know, making it a lot of it in Nashville and working with country musicians. It brought to mind like John Wesley Harding, the great Bob Dylan record that he put out in 67, which he made after he was this very famous rock star in the mid-60s, and then he had the motorcycle accident, and he went into retreat, and he was a much more mysterious figure, and he made this very enigmatic and beautiful record.

And I think there's some parallels there with Mitzki, where, again, she's this very well-known figure, but she just feels like outside of like what is going on in the culture right now. And in a way, I feel like maybe that hurt this record a little bit because we're not used to processing musicians like this. Musicians always have to be in our face, or it's easy to forget them. but I don't know. I appreciate and respect

her fortitude in letting the music speak for itself. And the music, I think, can more than do that for me. It's definitely one of the best albums of the year, as far as I'm concerned. The interesting thing about this record is that my love, mine, all mine became like an enormous hit on TikTok

and in general. So it's just interesting how that might be when we look back on 10 years, like the definitive Mitzki song. You know, this was also on my list, maybe more towards the back end. It's a record I wish I had spent more time with, but I do find it interesting that like this is living on as like a TikTok song that, you know, my wife curates for me like at the end of the day.

It's like, hey, here's some of the TikToks you should see. I'm like, yeah, that one pops up every other day, like that King Khan song, whatever, like whatever that one is. Right. what's your number four all right so you know me gotta gotta do the emo chalk here so maybe it's indicative of like how tough it's been for me to evaluate this genre this year that my favorite emo album of twenty twenty three is only number four on the total list but um so i'm gonna give this one to awake but still in bed chaos takes the wheel and i am a passenger which is much shorter than her

previous album title it's a band but it's mostly the uh work of one shannon Taylor. So this record for me is, uh, the number one albums I've chosen over the past couple years kind of have a similar sort of, you know, framework, which is that they're probably anywhere from, they're close to an hour long, like I think of Wild Pink's last record, ILYSM. Um, it's way more, it's a real swing for the fences type record. Uh, this one, it's got Jack Shirley producing it as well. You know, it's got similar to last one, but the first two songs are like eight minutes long apiece. And, you know, it's, it's been five years in the making.

And what I love about this project is that they just love emo so much, like the whole, the all of it. Not just like the metal core stuff, but it sounds like Sunday Day real estate. It sounds a little like Paramore in places. It sounds a little bit like indie rock. Like essentially if you like any wave of emo music, this album will have something for you. And I love how the thematic underpinning of it, which is that, you know, Shannon Taylor put herself in a position to like just do these mind-blowing punishing Torah regimens. And because this was her dream and five years later making a, I've won, but at what cost record, you know. And I really

The fact that this one hasn't been We'll see what happens when like the punk and emo Like leaning publications put out their year end But I feel a little like let down by how much this wasn't Prompped up as like a major record of 2023 Maybe it's just the you know state of affairs with emo in general But this one like I love this album when I think about it and I love it even more and I listen to it.

It's a real triumph. It's the one album from this genre that I could call an opus. And, you know, if the vocals from the last album turned you off, they happen a lot less on this time around. So if you haven't checked it out yet, please do so. Like, I can't say enough good things about it. So I have an emo-adjacent album coming up on my list, and I'm curious if it landed anywhere for you.

It's not my next one. it's the one after, but I'm curious what you think about that record. My number three album is Live and Loose by M.J. Lenderman in The Wind. This is probably going to be the record I listen to the most from 2023 moving forward. It's already the kind of album that I can't really imagine any, you know, bonfire or cookout existing without me listening to this record at some point. I cannot wait for the patio to reopen at my house so I can listen to this record outside. You know, I feel like live albums often don't end up on year endless. I'm a big fan of live

albums. And I would say this one in particular is a real standout. And the way I would justify it is that Neil Young in 1979, he put out, Rust Never Sleeps in June. And then five months later, at the end of the year, he put out live rust. And there's a lot of the same songs on live rust as there is on Rust never sleeps. But live rust, I would argue, in many ways, represents the superior versions of those songs. So with MJ Lenderman, Boat Songs was my album of the year last year. Obviously, a lot of both songs is on this live record. But I would say that those songs sound even better here. They're better realized. And the songs from the previous album

to both songs, Ghost of Your Guitar Solo, are completely transformed. He recorded that album basically by himself in a bedroom. Here he is on stage with his great backing band. It just sounds fantastic.

There's a great cover of Long Black Veil on the record as well. It's a live record. I know some people don't like live records. I feel like you're maybe not a fan of live records. This is a great live record, and I think it absolutely deserves to be counted among the best albums of 2023, which is why I put it at number three.

I could have put this at number one. If I went by pure just, I know I'm going to listen to this album all the time in the years ahead. I probably would put it at number one, but I'm putting it at number three just to hedge a little bit. Great record, though. Yeah, I love how, you know, when this album, like, first came out, or like, this could not be more of a Steve record.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And I love that. stuck the landing. So yeah, I like it a lot as well. It's just a really fun record to listen to. So as far as my number three goes, I'm going to go with the clientele. I am not there anymore. So I think that this year saw acts from, you know, the 2000s, for example, like Yolotengo and Blonde Redhead. Like people were ready to revisit some old head stuff. And I think the clientele made the best of that ilk.

And I'm also surprised this hasn't come up more on year end list. But I also think it's due to the fact that like Yoletango, as we talked about in the episode where we went over that record, they reliably put out an album every five years that like regenerates interest. It's like, oh, yeah, they're getting back on their bullshit. They're great again. Whereas the clientele, you know, I could say that this is their best record since 2005. Strange Geometry is a record I fucking adore.

but also they haven't put out a lot of great records in the time since. They put out a couple okay ones and more or less disappeared. This similar to awake but still in bed, and this is the only way these two albums have something in common. This is also an immersive 60-minute album. It's not the sort of thing you would expect from them. It's still very much in the mode of wistful, literate indie rock about like childhood, about their family.

but there's also this which I love this element of like the late 90s trip hop to it which and also like their spoken word pieces there's a lot of what one might consider to be quote filler tracks

but I think it makes it a more immersive experience than their previous records which were just like 11 really excellent songs this one just keeps giving me new stuff every time I listen to it and you know I swear it's not just for the old heads. Like you don't have to be 40 years old to love this record. Probably helps.

But this is, I had no expectation of the clientele making a record that really moved me as much as this one did in 2023. I'm going to be listening to this one a lot next year as well. So this didn't make my list, but I am totally with you on doffing the cap to the clientele. I would just say, like, if you love the always record from last year, you should listen to the clientele if you haven't checked them out. I mean, they are the kind of band where they sounded, you know, like melancholy middle-aged people when they were young. So, like, when they're older, it doesn't really matter.

You know, it's the kind of music that you can age in very well. But if you love that kind of wistful, jangly, indie guitar pop type sound, they are one of the best that doing that. I do think that Yola Tango, takes up their lane a lot, especially on these lists. I've been seeing that record appear as sort of the obligatory veteran indie band entry on year-end list. And that's a really good record, too. I didn't make my list, but I mean, Yolatango, you can't go wrong with them.

But yeah, no, I like that choice for your number three. My number two album, this is a record that really snuck up on me. This was like the tortoise of the year. Like just the slow and steady record. I put it on my mid-year list. I liked it then. I didn't necessarily think it would be in the running for like one of my top five albums of the year, but I just kept returning to it and returning to it.

And there's something about this record where I just really appreciate how it's just about 10 or 11 fantastic songs. Just really good songwriting. songs I never get sick of hearing. It's the kind of record that I expect that I'm going to return to, that I'll be happy to return to over the years. It's been in my rotation for a while. It's Infinite Spring by Superviolet. And this is my emo-adjacent record,

because this is the former singer-songwriter from the Sidekicks. Steve, I can never pronounce his last name. Steve C. I'll say Steve C. Yes. And again, I think this is not. not a record with a narrative. It's not you know, Capriene the Zeitgeist. It's just writing beautiful

guitar pop songs. I mean, there's songs on here that remind me of like Alex Chilton or like Prime Big Star. I mean, it's really that, I think, level of songwriting. And I don't know. Like this is like a record that I would put in the Indycast Hall of Fame in

10 years. It just feels like it's part of that. And I wanted to honor it in the moment. So yeah, my number two album of the year. Yeah, when you mentioned, like, coming up, like, tortoise, I thought you were trying to talk about, like, some jazz record that involves, like, uh, Jeff Parker or John McIntyre. But you mean, like, tortoise in the sense of, uh, you know, Tartis and the hair. Yes.

I like this record a lot, too. Um, and I think it's, this, like, we, if we were to expand it, our list to, like, 10 or 15, there's usually, like, an album that comes in at, like, number eight, where it's the one that you listen to, uh, more than the records that you place higher. but I think we're being more honest with each other on this one. It's like, yeah, this is the one I listen to the most, and it's also great. I really think that the next super violent album has the potential to be like a real breakthrough. I think a lot of people, it was a slow burn with this one.

It was kind of a sleeper pick, but I don't think people are going to be sleeping on the next one. Like if they make an album as good or even better than this one, it'll be a it'll be a, it'll be a, a big deal. Yeah, and I think there's something about them too, almost in that rat boys sense, where you just want to cheer for them because such a likable band makes such good records, very unassuming in a lot of ways, and it felt a little unsung. I mean, Rat Boys made my bigger list that you can read on Up Rocks. I mean, I don't know if it was a breakthrough for Rat Boys this year. I feel like I saw a lot more press for them. Rat Boys? Which was good to see. Yeah, I think that this one, well, I can think

of a few reasons for that like you know you get you get some new PR people on it and but that's what it's for and i think that there's that chris walla producing uh they they just put themselves in a position to be essential in the way their previous albums had it and you know it was like right time right place uh people were rooting for rap boys and they they they absolutely deserve it great record one that probably i'd be talking about if it would if we were expanding to 10 or 15 i blurted that one for Up Rock. So it's really good to see both Super Violent and Rap Boys get their due because, you know, side kicks were kind of in that Rap Boys position. It's like, how come they're not bigger? Like, they're your favorite band's favorite band. So, yeah, it was really heartening to see it,

especially as they're making pretty, you know, I mean this like lovingly, like down, like middle of the lane, like indie rock, like nothing fancy, nothing narrative provoking. Yeah, just great songwriting on both those accounts. And I feel like I just want to shout out Lamo Records too. They put out a lot of records I love this year, along with the Supervalet record. They put out Golden Apples record,

which I talked about in Recommination Corner. They put out a really good Slaughter Beach Dog record that I put on one of my sub lists. It didn't make the master list, but it made a sub list on the patio music list, specifically. So they're definitely like one of my favorite labels of the year.

maybe my favorite. All right. So for my number two, this is, I may have actually put this one number one in my mid-year or at very least on my Up Rocks list, but it's Billy Woods and Kenny Siegel's album, Maps, I was about to say Raps. There's Raps on this album. There are for sure, but this is, Billy Woods is an artist I've really got into, you know, over the past five or so years. He's been around for much longer. But it was interesting. because last year I felt like I was kind of getting a little exhausted of him in the way that sometimes I do with certain rappers that I get into like very deeply and then I'm like, okay, I get it.

And then you can probably make up the lyrics yourself. Like it happened with Cameron. It happened with Gucci Man. It happened with Rock Marciano to a degree. But this record really threads the needle. Like rap is obviously like a difficult genre for me to engage with as a 43 year old man who primarily listens to indie rock. And on the one hand, you have what I like to call like dad rap, which is like run the jewels, push a tea, Freddie Gibbs, killer Mike, like stuff that was big in the early 2000s.

And it's like you know what to expect. And on the other hand, you have newer stuff like, you know, the Earl sweatshirt extended universe like him, Mike, Wiki, I guess, who, you know, don't put drums on their record and just like really dense and kind of like slow talking, slurry music. this one hits right in the middle for me in the sense that like the beats are interesting but they're not aggressive and the lyrics are like very dense but also very funny but they're not like laid back and kind of stone and this record just makes his Billy Woods just like 10% more accessible

than previous records. It's got like the Future Islands guy doing a hook and it's largely an hour about like what it's like to be a mid-level touring rap act in that same in the sense of what it's like in 2023 to like do it take a $300 Uber to a show or just be stuck in your hotel doing FaceTime. And it's very lived in. It's like very New York City, but like not like provincial in the way that I find a lot of that stuff off putting. And this and it's a rap I'm like just throwing at any time.

Kind of similar to like say like mad villainy or, you know, like I. I'm trying to think of comparative points, but they all seem to be MF Doom Records. So this is probably the album I listen to the most in the gym and the car. It's very versatile and it's very, it just gives me something new every time I hear. It's sort of similar to Rap Boys and Superviolet that this is someone who has been kind of underrated for quite a long time. But their moment came and they did not fail when the spotlight was on them. Yeah, I feel like this is the rap record I'm seeing the most on year-end line. it doesn't seem like there was a great commercially successful rap record this year,

or at least like a critically acclaimed. One, so it seems like that opened a lane for this album. So that's good to see. My number one album of the year, I feel like this is a little bit chalky, but whatever, it's what I really feel. It's Ratsaw God by Wednesday. And the thing about this record, and I wrote about this in my blurb in my column, that I'm going to make a Stephen Van Zant reference here.

He hosts this show called Underground Garage, and I once read an interview with him where he talked about how on his show, and his rule for what to play is that it either had to be an influence for the Ramones or it had to be influenced by the Ramones. So before them or after them, but the Ramones are at the center of the musical world for that show. And I feel like for me right now,

the music that I'm most drawn to, Wednesday is that band if we're talking about this sort of like heavy riffing, story oriented, kind of, but not really alt-country type thing that you're seeing from like a lot of bands from North Carolina as well as elsewhere. I feel like there's quite a few records like that on my list.

And I don't know if Wednesday, if it's accurate to say that they're spearheading it, but it feels like they are. It feels like they're the figurehead of that. So even if this wasn't my favorite record of the year, which it is, but if it wasn't, it would be the most important for me, because it does feel like it's part of this thing that feels like a movement in this decade that I'm personally really into.

So that's why it's my number one record. Ratsaw God by Wednesday. Yeah, I think that this is going to be one of the records that when we look back on 2023 is a real, like, time capsule. It, you know, it's another example. of a band who things were building for Wednesday. Like you could just kind of tell it's like, oh, it's their moment between the previous record getting that slow burn appreciation, MJ Lenderman's solo album.

It was their time. And, you know, when that time came, they, you know, stepped up in every way possible. You know, this is a record that I'll probably appreciate more in 2024 once the kind of hype and narrative dies down and I can have my own experience with it. but yeah, anyone who puts this at number one, it's deserved. So as far as mine goes now, I think you joked about this when it first came out as being an album designed in a lab for my particular taste, maybe in the same way that the MJ Lenderman or the Wednesday album was for you. I tried to overthink this, but the album I listened to the most in 2023 and the album I enjoyed the most every time I listen to it comes from Paranol,

after the magic. This came out pretty early in the year, so it might be kind of an end-to-end number one for me. But their previous album in 2021, to see the next part of the dream, it was like if M8, early M-83 was like an emo band. And of course, this was borne out by the fact they signed a top shelf,

which had a fucking phenomenal year with albums that weren't emo. And on this, and I would wonder, like, well, what's going to happen if they actually get production values or people start paying attention. But this album just explodes what I thought was possible for them. Like I did not expect them to follow up their previous album

with one that was even better. And one that, you know, maintains that homemade feel, but like it's not lo-fi at all. And, you know, when I listen to this album, what I kind of think about is like when you're a kid on Halloween and like you're trick-or-treating. And like this is what it would be like to pull constantly snickers in a hundred grand. Like you never get that like lame ass three musketeers or Milky Way.

Those you're, it's just always surprised. This is an album like where the choruses are great, but there's more about like the bridges and the transitions and the codas. And every single second is just such a joy to listen to. It provides something surprising. It's just like all the things I think are awesome about shooting. gays about electronic music, about emo, about 90s all rock, and puts it together in a way that's kind of similar an approach to the DJ, Sabrina, the teenage witch or, you know, avalanches or like any sort of mashup. But it just does so with all of my favorite indie rock music from the past

like 20 years, including like, you know, the knot twist or like caribou or anything. basically it's like my entire recommendation quarter combined to one album. Yeah, I love it. I love it. This is like, if you're going to make the ultimate Ian Cohen core record, Ian Cohen better put it at number one on his list.

So I'm glad you delivered on that. Yeah, that's really good record too. I like that a lot. I didn't end up on my master list, but I really enjoyed it. Just a stacked year, man. Like lots of fun albums to check out. And hopefully you have discovered some of those through this show or through the writing Ian and I do.

That makes us feel good when people follow our recommendations and find good music. So this is the penultimate show of the year. Indycasties next week and then we're done for 2023. So I think we're just building up ahead of steam here, Ian. We're going out with a bang. It's going to be great. We'll be back one more time this year with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the

indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.