Indiecast - Our Favorite Albums Of 2024

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Steven and Ian begin this week's episode by recapping the new Yacht Rock documentary and Ian's Toto-related takeaways on the film that Steven worked on (0:00). Then they reflect on the week's deluge of year-end albums lists and they hash out the emerging trends, i.e. Brat is hot and Taylor Swift is not, and hip-hop is very chaotic (9:55). Finally, the guys dig into their own favorite albums of the year, sharing five choices each (25:44).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 218 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast on this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we reveal our favorite albums of 2024. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I'm his third favorite Steve after Steve Lukather and Steve Piccaro. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? Yeah, if we get nothing else out of the yacht rock documentary, it is that Steve,

is the most yacht rock of names. Love it. Love it. Yeah. Also, I did not know there were three Percaras. Like, I knew Jeff, just, you know, from my very, very, very surface level knowledge of Toto. But there's three of them, apparently. Yeah, there's Jeff, the drummer.

There was Mike Percaro, who's a bass player. And then Steve Piccaro, keyboard player. And Jeff and Mike have passed on. Steve is still with us. One of my favorite people in the duck. Oh, he's great. There were so many great dudes in that documentary. Like, they are, like, for the most part, they all had such a great, I don't want to say sense of humor,

because that would imply, like, the entire thing was, like, meant to kind of laugh at Yacht Rock. But they just all seem, like, very grounded. Kenny Loggins grounded. Mike McDonald, fucking cool-ass dude. Self-aware. They're all self-aware, which I think is a big thing, especially for me. musicians in a lot of these docs, you feel like the musician has no perspective on their own career. They can't step outside of it and say, this worked, this didn't work.

They're just so sort of immersed in their own thing, their own aura, and all the guys in the yacht rock doc, which, if you don't know, premiered on HBO Max last week. It was a documentary I was fortunate to work on, and it's been streaming all week. it's been doing well, very gratifying to see that. But yeah, all the guys in the movie, they're just like nice old guys who have a sense of self, and they're self-deprecating. And you're right,

it is a funny movie, but like you're laughing with these guys. Like they are very funny talking about their own careers. Yeah. I think the first thing we got to talk about is how, you know, it's cool to see the Yacht Rock guys that, but also people I know from Twitter

and people I know from, Like, you know, the music writing community. It's like, oh, yeah, Alex Papademus, I know him. However, I think we just have to make a note of the fact that of all of the music writers, you are the only one who understood the assignment wore a blazer. Yeah. The rock documentary, you got to dress the part. Yeah, yeah, I was wearing the blazer on set during a lot of these interviews.

We were at Village Recorders the day that I filmed my interview. That was the same place where the Michael McDonald and Christopher Cross interviews took place. Lucifer was also interviewed there. I interviewed Steve Lukather at the studio. And this is, by the way, it's a historic studio in Hollywood. It's where parts of Asia were made, but also like parts of the chronic were made there and doggy style. I mean, just like tons of classic albums were made there. And I interviewed Lukather and I think I could tell this story.

It's a little bit of inside baseball. I want to hear about this because Lukather is someone I want to talk about. So I was really excited to talk to him because I did the audiobook of his memoir that came out like three or four years ago. And I'm going to go. I can't remember the name of the book. It's like one of the best musician memoirs, though, I've read, certainly in recent years. The Gospel According to Luke is the name of the book. Came out in 2018.

Really funny book. And he reads the book himself and he's great on the audiobook. So I was like, oh, I'm excited to talk to him. But he came in, he was like a little grumpy, I think. It was around lunchtime, and I don't think he had eaten. So that was coming into play. He mentioned something about how he had been interviewed for a Michael Jackson thriller documentary, and he was cut out of it.

So he was sort of like, well, I'm never included in these documentaries. So I'm not even sure why I'm here. And at one point, he looked at me dead in the eye and said, you got 15 minutes, man. So I was like, so. I had like a ton of questions. I was sort of mentally editing things out. I mean, we ended up going much longer than 15 minutes. And if you watch the movie, I think he's great.

He's really funny. There's a couple scenes like where he leans into the camera and he's like, you know, like we're talking about yacht rock. Where's my fucking yacht? That whole thing. That's a quote. And he's talking about Africa. And he's like, we recorded that in 1981.

You think I haven't heard that a few times? And it works great on camera. he's really funny but like in the room it read like as a little hostile a little bit and like I know like when it was done I was like man I don't know if that turned out well and then the footage came out and it looked great so

you never know and he was awesome in the movie I know you were great you were a fan of his hair I just I did not expect that because I mean I'm thinking of like what would I imagine the guy who wrote the whole the line riff looking like you know I imagine

he's got like maybe like the little Stevie band bandana thing happening, but no, he's got like kind of a Haygar, Sammy Hagar sort of thing going on. Like I just had no picture. Look, I've watched the video for Hold the Line so many times. It's just such a phenomenal collection of images. This is prior to when they were yacht rock, by the way. Well, they were still Yacht Rock at the time.

Hold the line is a little more rocking, I guess, than typical Yacht Rock. That's like Boston or foreigner. Like that's got more of Boston or foreigner vibe than it does like Yacht Rock. But I think with Toto it's more almost about the records they played on for other people. You know, like at that point, you know, all those guys had toured with Boscags, for instance. And David Page from Toto was a big part of Silk Degrees. I don't know how well you know that record. And it's a Boss Kegs record from 76.

Like one, we unfortunately weren't able to talk to Boscags. He was kind of like the one guy I would have loved to get in the movie. But that's such a early yacht rock touchstone, you know, low down Lido shuffle, songs like that. And which are very yacht. And then, you know, they also played on records by all the other people really in the movie. So I think that is where the yacht rock bona fides for Toto come from. Yeah. I mean, but Lukather also he's like, this is not yacht rock.

It's my career. You know, it's not like it's not my life or it's not my passion. it's my career. Also, the fact that Steve Lukather doesn't own a yacht or at least like a pretty nice boat, I think that's kind of a skill issue right there, man. I mean, how many records the Toto 4 sell? Also, I want to know for your say, like how deep you went into the Toto Discography because I had no idea that there were two albums between Hold the Line and Toto 4. Like, I know it's named Toto 4, but like I thought that was maybe like a joke. Right, right. Yeah. Have you heard that have you heard? Because like they talk about like,

those two albums being kind of flops. Have you heard those records? Yeah, well, this is a record called Hydra, which is the one I believe where the dude is holding a sword. They're all, I think they all have swords on the cover. Yeah. Yeah, they really went in more of like a Prague rock direction between those records.

And then Toto 4 was the one where they really swerve back to pop and they had a huge hit. But I think, I mean, Toto has always had that side to them. go deep into the Toto world, you know, the people that go see them live and are big Toto heads, I mean, they're really revered by like the guitar magazine people. Oh, absolutely. The real Muso. So like when they're, when you go to like a Toto show, like it is, you know, there's like a dream theater aspect to it, I think, at times.

Just the instrumental virtuosity. And like, you know, Steve Lukather, he talks about that in his book. I mean, he does have that side to him where, you know, I mean, he was great friends with Eddie Van Halen and like he would bring him out to this like club in L.A. and they would jam together and they'd have all these like just crazy sort of like jazz fusion type musicians. So like that dude can cook for real. I was reading about him in guitar world back in the mid 90s like all those guys from Toto. You know, he was beefing with Billy Corgan. Right. I go deep on the Luke gospel.

Yeah. the people that are like real guitar heads, I feel like Lukather is the guitar god that they will often mention that maybe the average person doesn't think of as being a guitar god. But like the real musos are like, oh yeah, Lukather is a god.

And he is, I mean, you know, we could have made another documentary just on the footage we didn't use. I mean, he does have like a long career of like playing on so many records by just a wide variety of,

musicians from just every kind of genre you can think of. Like all those Toto guys do that. I mean, there's definitely space for like a Toto movie if someone wanted to do that. It is actually like a really interesting story with that band. And if you do make one for HBO, I want to be in the Toto, Doc. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. So I could just keep talking about Yacht Rock, but we should pivot because this is a big time of the year for our business. The music critic salt mines.

are just buzzing this week because all the year-end lists are coming out. And this year, it really seemed clustered. I don't know if it was more clustered than usual. I mean, I know typically the week after Thanksgiving is when a lot of these lists drop. But I feel like on Monday, like that first Monday after Thanksgiving, there were, you know, what, six, seven, eight publications put out their list. It was like everybody at once. Yeah, they all dropped.

And I think maybe it's just like the coincidence of it being kind of a late Thanksgiving this year, like, and that the Monday was like December 2nd or something like that. But yeah, there's usually like a time where we can speculate based on, you know, some of the print magazines dropping or maybe some of the smaller places that you love to talk about in our fantasy draft releasing early. But pretty much everything dropped on the second. or the third. So we're, like, I think we might see, like, a trickle, um, afterwards of, like certain sites, you know, like Brooklyn Vegan or the alternate, like the places that basically

rank the islands that I'm going to have in my top five. But we're, we can pretty much make definitive statements about year end already. And, like, I don't even think our boy, Rob Mitchum even put up his, uh, spreadsheet yet. No, I mean, he goes pretty far and wide. He might be looking at British publications as well. I don't know if they've already posted or not. But yeah, a lot of the big American places posted this week. And it seems to be unfolding more or less, as we expected.

It looks like Charlie X, EX. I almost said Brought again. I always want to call it Brought. I do think it's funny to call that record Brot, me being a Wisconsin native. But no, it's Brat, of course. That seems like it's running away with the consensus number one. one, which is what I think everyone would have predicted. After that, maybe it's a little less sort of what we thought.

I mean, Cowboy Carter seems to be doing pretty well on a lot of lists. Taylor Swift is like totally non-existent. Like where she had a medicritic or what? I mean, she's points. So because Rob Mitcham nor Metacritic has posted anything yet, My main source is album of the year, which, you know, I don't think they have like weighted lists. But Taylor Swift currently is at overall number 39 between Miller Fier, Janja and Laura Marling, which is like a great place to be for the most part. But that is like a just a, the closest thing we're going to see to like a actual flop, I guess, since like reputation, I guess, or lover, whichever that, whichever one of those two.

albums was one that was like sort of kind of a flop at the time uh yeah this one is not hitting not a commercial flop though no no no no yeah because i think it's the most streamed album of the year so yeah didn't even make rolling stone's top 10 man that is a shock 23 i was shocked by that i thought taylor swift if she's gonna make any top 10 it would be rolling stone yeah and didn't make the top 10 i got to say i was pleasantly surprised to see my boy, M.J. Lenderman, come in at number three on the Rolling Stone list, which to me is a bellwether for him on these lists. I wrote my column a few weeks ago giving odds for who I thought would be in the upper reaches of these lists. And I'd, M.J. and Lenderman, I forget the exact odds. But I said that I thought that would probably be the top

indie record on these lists and I got some pushback online. I think I'm sitting pretty pretty with that right now. It really does feel like that is the indie record that a site like Rolling Stone, which otherwise would never put a record like that in the top 10. Yeah. Just like Lenderman is the record this year. Yeah, for perspective on the Rolling Stone list, five, Billy Elish, four, Sabrina Carpenter, 3, MJ, 2, Beyonce, 1, Charlie.

So, yeah. And also in the top. then you got Ariana Grande and Tyler and this future Metro Boobino, which I don't think is very good, but what are you going to do? Yeah, MJ Lenderman, doing great. There is probably some vote splitting with, you know, Waxahatchie, but yeah, those two are really the only albums that are reaching the top 10, like consistently in the indie sphere. But I think that, like, it's so, maybe it's just the fact that, like, we're so immersed in it

all year. We can't really be surprised by the year end. But it's so funny how like everything feels so fractious and like decentralized. But like at the end of the year, it's like, oh, yeah, of course. You know, the only thing that's like, the only real surprises I see are like, oh, I didn't realize people were like feeling the Nala Sinephro album that much. You know, it's sort of like the floating points, Barrow Sanders album of 2024. But yeah, I'm not feeling like particularly like there's, there's much here that shocks me. I think the pitchfork list was interesting just because of like how much it's, I predict, I knew it was going to swerve from the beginning of the year because of like, you know,

the editorial shit, but it swerved a lot from like the mid-decade list, which came out like a couple months ago. You know, they're going hard on that zillennial rap, which great, maybe that's as close as it'll get to like 2021, 2001, 2002. but I also saw a few Wild Pink album mentions. I was surprised by that. You know, that album's like doing shockingly well. Yeah, they've just hung in for a while and it feels like there's enough of the people,

I guess, from our tribe, if you can call it, who are infiltrating these publications and voting for Wild Pink. And of course we should mention that Cindy Lee is the number one record on the pitchfork list, which is I was a little surprised by, obviously, that was one of the best reviewed records on that site this year. Like, by far the best. I did think that that brat would still edge it out at the top. But, you know, I think they're clearly putting their stamp on Cindy Lee.

I mean, to me, there is a bit of like, you know, I love that record too. A lot of people love that record. I can't help but look at that and not think, okay, this is pitchfork maybe wanting to assert their relevance as a place that can take a relatively obscure act and make them a significant person in the conversation. It feels a little like that to me. Am I off base? Not at all because, I mean, the actual blurb, I'm pulling it up now, which I'm satisfied. They, like, quoted my stereo gum story.

But it would become the feel good. They quoted my story, too. Oh, hell yeah. We're doing, yeah, it would become the feel good rock story of the year, according to the headlines on music publication celebrating a rare victory against their own perceived irrelevance. I think the word perceived doesn't need to be there. I think irrelevance would have covered it as well. But yeah, look, I mean, it is, I think if you're looking at the overall picture with, like,

you know, pitchwork specifically kind of going, I mean, like, even for me, there's like 15 albums on the list. I'm like, I haven't heard this shit yet. You know, Cindy Lee, it's major, but it's also a little bit weird. And it also is like number one at Gorillaverse. bear, which is like kind of this weird sort of horseshoe from 2011 that they're kind of in sync again. There's like a lot of Danish kind of deadpan art rock that's popping these days.

That's like another trend. That's Zillennial rap. Those are like the kind of the major trends in like the minor leagues. But yeah, otherwise it's chalk. But yeah, I do think that I'm very interested to see where MJ goes in 2025. because now that they've got that kind of boost from like rolling stuff whatever you know impact that has like where can they go from here are they going to are they going to get like the alex g signing to like uh atlantic or whatever are they going to record in that studio where you did the yacht rock documentary um i don't think so i i would expect him i think he's got a pretty good community around him in north carolina i would expect him to stick around with that i i don't know to me, I envision like a Wilco-like career for him. I don't

think that he's going to be like a Zygeist-type person. He's going to, I guess this is me wishcasting. I just want him to have a really good fan base where he can do what he wants from now until, you know, whatever, like decades ahead and just put out

consistently great records and you just do your thing. You can be an island onto yourself. To me, that is the ideal career really for anyone. But I would really wish that for him moving forward. I don't want him really to get sucked into some major label system where he's going to feel pressure to be the next big thing. I saw some write-ups about that, you know, in some of the backlashy comments about MJ Lenderman reacting to people like me, raving about him. And it annoyed

me because it's not like I said, oh, this guy's a rock star. I said, he's a great songwriter. And I think he's going to make great records. That's not the same thing as saying he's the next big thing. Yeah, that's big. We don't have to go there. I would worry about that pressure being put on someone like that. Just make great records. Especially for someone making

that kind of music. I don't think that you should have to have some sort of like save your complex. We're going to save rock music with this guy. It's such a stupid way of looking at it. So that'd be my hope. One thing that's not chalky on these lists are the rap albums that are ending up at the top of the list.

Very chaotic this year. I mean, you've got Kendrick showing up on some of these lists. Not all of them, but on some of these lists. And I got to say, that feels a little like the YouTube Bruce Springsteen vote at this point on the hip-hop side. And I love both those artists. That's not a knock. But just, you know, we're putting our chips on the respected elder statesmen, you know, sort of the upholding the integrity of the genre type artist. That's what Kendrick feels like. And look, I'm not a good arbiter of this because I'm not engaged with hip hop at all at this point, like modern hip hop.

I'm not engaged with it. I don't know anything about it. I admit that. I would not comment on it. But one thing I was a little surprised by it, because I am aware of, like, the critically acclaimed artist. Are you familiar with this rapper Dochi? Yeah, I am.

Okay. Did I miss the Dochi conversation? Because I feel like every year on these lists, there's like one artist who's like on a big label who is maybe bubbling under the surface. And then at year end list time, you just see their name everywhere. And it's a little bit like Gabo. It's a Gabo effect. Everyone's talking about Gabbo. Was I just checked out on the Dochey conversation?

I feel like I did not hear about this artist. She's a female rapper. I don't know where she's from. She's an American rapper. Signed to, let's see, her record is called Alligator Bites Never Heal. It's in Top Dog Entertainment and Capital Records.

Right. She was nominated for a best rap album Grammy. So there's clearly some industry juice behind her. But yeah, I just feel like I saw her name a lot in the top 10. And it just seemed indicative to me of a year where I'm not even commenting on the health of the genre because I wouldn't even pretend to do that.

It just feels like in terms of what's critically acclaimed or like a hierarchy, I guess, of critical esteem, that it's totally just chaotic right now in the hip-hop space. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, as far as Gabbo goes, I think he did some really good work on the Xavier So-Based album, so I would recommend you checking that out. Xavier-So-Based. I am loving the Xavier so based.

He's not lying in his artist's name. Xavier truly is so based. That's what I would call him. I would add the truly is so in the Xavier is based. That's some of the worst. I mean, I thought I could say that that sucks. That dude sucks, right? Are you a fan?

Yeah, here's the thing about that. Like, yes, I'm a 44-year-old dude, but that, look, if I lived in New York, the fact that I'm 44 years old and, like, still listen to Little B YouTube's would not preclude me from liking Xavier so based. This music is like very similar to stuff I really do like, such as, you know, your RXK nephew and RXK Poppy, which by the way, if I, I'm surprised that my Apple replay didn't have RX Poppy's foreign exchange out of 2021 is my top out on the year. I listen to that all the fucking time. Yeah, I just try and I'm like, this, this is just not for me. Well, saying it's not

for me feels like kind of a cop out like because that's just like not really levying any sort of opinion. I'm like this is like I should like this stuff and I really, really do not. But as far as like Dochi goes, this is a really tricky thing because when you mentioned like Kendrick and the YouTube Bruce Springsteen, but like Kendrick as we talked about like a few weeks ago, like that's an album album, right? It's like we're reminiscent of, you know, our time. in the late 2000s and the early 2010s where, you know, rap was clearly changing, but you would get these very album rap, uh, rap releases, you know, like your Vince Staples, your drakes, your Kanye's, uh, you know, schoolboy cue even for that matter. Um, and the tricky thing now is that,

you know, rap is really where a lot of the, you know, it's, it's definitely like where a lot of, a lot of interesting things are happening artistically and popular. But it's not, it's almost like gone back to like an 80s, 90s thing where it's not really an album genre. And so I think what you see are these albums, like the one you mentioned, like get like not super great reviewed in the moment. But like when you're looking at the year endless, like what have I listened to the most? Like what mattered from this year? Then you got to come back around and talk about those very albums. like the ones that were popular and felt like they mattered.

But, you know, it's sort of like how back in the 90s I would get these like 78 minute rap CDs that I'm like, yeah, I fast forward through like, you know, at least a quarter of it. But, you know, big pun, capital punishment. That's a top 10. So it's almost this like weird throwback to the CD era. Interesting. Interesting. Well, I could be completely fucking wrong about it too. Like I said, I'm not going to debate that at all.

I will take your word for it or we can have people write in and try to school us on that. Let's put all that aside. Let's get to the nitty gritty here with people who are listening to this episode for our favorite albums of 2024. Ian and I are both going to reveal our top five lists. I actually wrote a column for Up Rocks that just went up right now. I'm saying this on Thursday. It'll have been up for a while by the time this episode post. But I wrote about, well, I had a top 27 list.

But on my list, I do like a lot of sub lists. So I ended up writing like over 50 albums on my year-end list. So I've got a lot of music that I'm not going to talk about in this episode that I wrote about in that column. So if you want a more complete picture of what I like this year, please go to Uprocks, read my favorite albums of 2024 column. On the show, we're just going to do a shorter version of. that list here. We don't have four hours, unfortunately, to do a longer list. I don't even, do you have a longer list, Ian? I mean, man, I haven't done a longer list. Like, what I'm going to do this year is still going to try my hardest to do the best emo releases, even though, like, I feel

like barely more fluent in that genre this year than I do with rap. And also I'm going to do a top 10 list of albums I feel are underappreciated. So that's coming. But as far as like a year, year end list of like my favorite albums like god i use i i would i still get these like facebook memories where like i would post like 50 albums and like as recently as like 2018 or 2017 and i'm like fuck man i i mean i i i could tell you 50 albums i like but certainly not to the point where i can rank them and feel like oh yeah that this is this is where i was at this year um yeah i list making i i it is just so falling off the map for me but i i i i i i i it is just so falling off the map for me, but I feel pretty confident in my ability to put one together for this episode. So,

if you're not listening to IndyCash, you're not going to hear my list. And also, Steve, I have not seen yours yet, so I don't know if we're going to overlap. I imagine there's going to be at least one, but. All right. Well, then, without further ado, here are our lists of our favorite albums of 2024. Ian, why don't you give your number five first? All right. So, I debated between. like what's going to make this conversation more interesting between you and I and like what's a more accurate uh frame of what I was actually listening to. So, you know, with all due respect to Mannequin Pussy, which is an album that like real, man, like that's, that album's like even better than the hype.

Um, uh, respect to Howdy, which is probably the album I've listened to the most because, you know, it came out pretty earlier in the year. I reviewed it and it's also like an hour long. I'm going to have to go with MJ Lenderman A little album called Manning Fireworks. That's my number five. You know, this is the album that felt like a greatest hits like from the moment it dropped. You know what I mean?

Not just because, you know, we've heard a lot of the singles prior to it being released, but even like, you know, on my knees or like, you know, some of the songs like towards the back. It's just like an album where like you can quote every single song, like within a week. It almost reminds me of like a rap album in that way. So, but yeah, it was interesting because, like,

I wasn't, like, the hugest boat songs fan. Like, I thought it was, you know, some great songs and otherwise rather uneven. And this album, like, just, like, I enjoyed it, but I wasn't like, oh, yeah, this is clearly a top five. But it really stuck around. It became an album where I'm like, yeah, what I don't, I'll listen to MJ Lenderman. That's the album I want to listen to and I don't know what I want to listen to.

And yeah, it just feels like definitive of 2024. One thing I will say is that you alluded, it was kind of annoying to read about it early on because like I feel like a lot of writers are so fucking self-conscious about like what it means to like such a dudes rock guy in 2024. And I think what we're seeing now in the blurbing season is that same thing where it's like, Hey, man.

Like, this album's great, but dudes rock, but do they rock? You know, it's like that sort of like reaction to, you know, the cultural realignment we saw on the Donald Trump, you know, second term victory. And, you know, like, he does write songs about, like, guys like, you know, who follow Andrew Tate and things like that. But it's like, I feel this is what the album's about. But I just wish there was another way to write about it, you know. So. There is. There are lots of other ways to write about it.

I mean, look, I'm going to hold off. on my personal comments about this record, because surprise, surprise, it's coming up on my list a little farther down the line, so I'll reserve it for when I get it to on my list. But you bring up a very interesting point, and it's something I've been thinking a lot about lately, and it's a delicate subject,

but there is, and there has been, a palpable anxiety from music critics, I think sometimes about putting a record like this at the top, of a year-end list. It feels like the guitar-sling male indie rocker has been pretty much banished from top ten lists on a lot of indie music sites,

which has been very interesting, and I think that there has been a concerted effort maybe to correct for over-representation in the past. And it has sort of put these sort of artists to the side a little bit. And I wonder if maybe that's going to shift back like a little bit. It's not going to go all the way back to the way it was in the aughts, nor should it. But, yeah, I don't know. You never know.

I mean, look, this is a great record. And I think that's why it overcame maybe some of that stuff because people are just like, it's a fun record to listen to. And there's a lot of substance there. And he's also someone unlike, say, another artist who's coming up on my list a little bit later. He's not really like an alienating person in interviews. He's not someone who's going to sort of beat you over the head with his cis normative maleness. You know, like he he's a very sort of likable guy who writes these songs.

I don't want to say non-threatening. That's not the right way to put it. But anyway, I think he's very palpable in a lot of sort of unexpected and unusual ways. And that's allowed him to have the critical success that he's had. But to your point also, it's like, Lee is still a Patrick Flegal, you know? Right, right. That's a, that's a weird sort of twist.

So, yeah. Yeah. Well, at my number five, I'm going to go with a record that I've not seen really on any lists so far, even though it did get some praise earlier in the year. And I have a bias here with this band because they come from the Midwest. They sing about Midwestern things. They actually come from my region of the Midwest, which is the Upper Midwest. And there's just a lot of things about this band that, like, cater to my biases.

And I'm just going to go all for it and reward them for catering to my biases. The band is called Liquid Mike. The record is called Paul Bunyan Slingshot. And this is just, like, one of the most enjoyable rock records of the year, as far as I'm concerned. The main guy in the band is a mailman who loves guided by voices, and he writes songs about small town desperation and degradation and degradation. And there's a lot of humor in the songs, but there's also an undercurrent of melancholy running throughout. It's just really catchy, really spiky, kind of pop punk a little bit, a little bit of

emo coming into there as well, but just really good rock songs with really good lyrics. And I do feel like, you know, this record, it did get some publicity in the early part of the year. I wonder if people forgot about it a little bit because even on like, specialty list that I've seen like the best rock records of the year. I think Pitchfork did one of those. This album didn't show up and I feel like there are not 30 better rock records this year than this one. And it has an underdog narrative to it that I think should have appealed to more people. But we'll put that to the side because it definitely appeals to me. I love this band. I love the record. I love just the backstory. And that's why I put it number five in my list. Liquid Mike,

Paul Bunyan's Slings, Slings. Yeah, I think this one's probably going to show up in some of the list that I mentioned. Like, you know, your Brooklyn vegan, your alternative, your places that, like, you know, still care about, like, guitar rock, qua, guitar rock. And yeah, it did have a bit of, it did have a good bit of hype earlier on in the year. I did think it was going to, like, you know, accumulate some more goodwill as the year went on. But, you know what? Like, I think that's one of the differences between this year and years pass is I'm no long.

like upset when like my personal favorites no longer make the list. I mean it's a good record. I mean absolutely like it was it's so like tailored to your interest. I'm like is there is there a boating sound he's going to talk about that I haven't heard yet? But no liquid mic good band. I really feel like this is going to be a like a project where the next record is going to be well received like regardless. I think we're still in the, he's, they're not quite at the point where they're automatically like covered, right? I think that they're, this is like the goodwill accumulating error. And then maybe the next one is like where they break through in a more major way.

We'll see. They deserve it though. Yeah. Cheering for that band. Number four, Ian. All right. So, you know, if you've not fast forwarded through my, part, my recommendation. recommendations corners each week, you know, all like every now and again, rep for like, you know, screamo, metal, hardcore, you know, stuff from that sort, from our heavy musics.

It's sort of, like I say heavy music's the way people say, like, we need a politics. But anyway, but, you know, and like I love all those, like I stand by them. The issue is that I don't oftentimes revisit them. they are good for what they attempt to do, but they don't quite have a lot of versatility in terms of their listenability. The one album from this world where I have come back to it, and every time I do come back to it,

I'm like, oh, this is even better than I fucking thought, is knocked loose, you won't go before you're supposed to. They're having a bit of a moment right now. I don't know if you saw their Jimmy Kimmel performance. Yeah. Oh, did you? Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, fucking insane.

Like, on the one night of the year, it's raining in L.A. Yeah, so, I mean, a lot of records from this sphere are heavy. They're aggressive. They, you know, they whip ass or whatever. But, like, this, I'm doing a piece on Knock Luce that should be publishing at the Ringer pretty soon about, like, I did this after their enormous Orange County show that we talked about. And they think, they obviously think of themselves as like a rock band, but, you know, as a guy growing up in the South in the early 2000s,

you know, Brian, the lead singer of the band, was really in the like, Will John on the East Side Boys. It's like, yeah, these songs are like basically mosh calls, except they're, like, crunk rap. And that's kind of how this record feels to me in that it's not like, there aren't like melodies, but there are so many hooks on this thing. They just happen to be in the form of, like, breakdowns or pig squeals

or like these, like, China symbols that the drummer uses or double kick drums. And it's 27 minutes and every single second of this is just engaging. It's a lot to take in. But it's surprising the degree to which this broke through. I mean, it's not turnstile level, but it's like kind of close. And I think what it is that just it brings this dramatization of music. It's like if you want action, like this album is not a blur.

It is action. It's like a, it's like an action. action movie. It's like a Jason Statenham film. It's like John Wick but it's also got some just killer riffs and this is a band that's just at the peak of what they're doing. I love the fact that this was the

breakout heavy band of 2024. Yeah and there's really been a wave of these bands I guess post turnstile where some of them existed before turnstile but I'm just talking about in terms of turnstiles mainstream breakthrough where It does feel like the modern version of like what was happening in the late 90s, like with new metal.

Not that knock loose is new metal, but like just these heavy bands that have like a weird pop appeal to them. That isn't totally obvious, but like you can see it in the types of audiences that they're drawing. And in a way, I feel like the chat pile record is also part of that a little bit this year. I mean, they're not as big as Knocked Loose, but like there was, I mean, and they are more overtly new metal at times. on that record. Cool World, I believe what's called? Cool, yeah. Which is a good record. But I'm glad that there's a space for bands like that that is significant where you're not

just writing about the death metal record that's going to be written about by like five people and get like the 90 on Metacritic. Just say blood incantation. Well, that would be the record this year, which is a good record. Yeah, I like that one. It feels like a little nichey and maybe a little like, okay, we're checking. in the box for this kind of album, you know, we could say that we included

metal by talking about this. This feels like outside of that and feels like it actually has like a genuine grassroots appeal. And I'm glad that this band exists and is like doing well. We need bands like that to be in the conversation to be visible.

Yeah, absolutely. It's great to see. Every bit of success is there. And also the fact that like they came after turn style, but like the assumption was that, oh, you're going to have to like get more accessible than turnstile. You're going to have to like be more pop. And they did the exact fucking opposite. So I think that's really cool to see. To me it's like rough. Yeah, it's like rough riders like like emerging after like the shiny suit era. It's like it's not that different, but it's still like a bit of a response, Nala renunciation of what came before.

So my number four is going to be in line with my number five. I have a weakness as always for really good bands from the middle of the country. who are waving the flag for just good tunes, great lyrics, and sort of like a small town sensibility. I feel like that's something actually that has really come back to indie rock in a way in the past few years. And you can look at the success of Wednesday and MJ Lenderman being at the vanguard of that.

But there's a whole other generation of bands who, you know, they're not from New York, they're not from L.A. They're not writing from this sort of like, we're from nowhere type perspective. Like you listen to the records and you feel like, okay, I know where this band is from. When I listen to Liquid Mike, I know that they're from Upper Michigan. And when I listen to the band at number four on my list,

I know that they're from Texas. It's Good Looks. The album is, lived here for a while. I know you're a fan of this band as well. You wrote about them as well as I did. And this is following up on their record Bummer Year, which was, I don't know if that was officially an EP. It was an eight-song record.

I think it was about a half hour long. This record feels more substantial, more songs. I think that they've really developed what they do. You know, for lack of a better term, this is a Heartland rock band. They have a lot of the Heartland rock signifiers in their music. Tyler Jordan is someone who's talked about, you know, really being influenced by, you know, people like Steve Earl. Like, that's his songwriting hero. And he has, you know, a really strong interest in socialist politics. So he brings that to his songs, but not in an overbearing way. A lot of story songs just about, again, people living in small towns trying to make the best of their lives. And then it's matched by the guitarist, Jake Ames, who plays these improvised leads that integrate like Neil Young with like post-punk guitar. And that's really what takes this band out of the Americana zone, which is I think where they would be if it was just about Tyler's songs, it puts them in the Heartland Rock category. So you have these great grounded lyrics, but then melodies that just soar and build and just feel really uplifting. And I just think that they're really good at what they do. And they are also very

easy to cheer for, like Liquid Mike. This band, it's been written about it and every story that people have done about them, but they've had multiple vehicular disasters in their background. Jake Ames got hit by a car, almost died. They had like a van fire where all their instruments It's got burned up. And yet they continue to move forward and make great music. And I just find that. Again, easy to root for. I want to stump for this band.

It makes me want to fight for good looks. Really great band. So they're at number four on my list. Lived here for a while as the record. Yeah, this one I haven't seen on many year-endless. I mean, it came out earlier in the year. But yeah, I'm a little surprised by it because it's a great record. But, you know, also I feel.

like outside of like, you know, your MJs and your Waxahatchez and your Adrian Lankers, a lot of music of this ilk and that. I was about say killer, Mike, but we're not spin, um, which liquid Mike. Yeah, uh, yeah, that gets kind of squeezed out in the year end, but like necessarily so. Like this is, it's, if you're not like the consensus builder in this kind of heartland rock, you're, and that's even true of wild pink to a degree, um, you're going to get kind of squeezed out. But yeah, good looks, great band, looking for, like, you know when they're, you know, every time they drop an album, it's going to be good. So I'm looking forward to the next one.

They're already, yeah, they're already a very reliable band. And, uh, yeah, I think a lot of these songs were like old. Like, you know, they like these songs like have been sitting around for, like, even their first album, like, bummer year. Like, they had that ready in like 2019 or something. Right. So hopefully there's a backlog ready to go. They put, they put out a single recently with songs that were fantastic. Yes. And I don't know if it was from these sessions or if it was from something else. But, yeah, they just feel like they've got it on lockdown.

And if they can just get a good car or van that doesn't have any problems, you should be okay. Get these guys. It's not helicopter. The helicopter. No, no, no, no. Helicopter. Yeah, exactly.

Number three, Ian. All right. So, like, up until the moment we've been recording, I've been cycling through the three albums that are in my top three because they're all kind of similar in format they're sprawling they're about an hour long very diverse very ambitious and also draw on uh their past so it's like one for the heads uh but you know in the final tally number three uh i'm going with glass beach plastic death um this is an album that has kind of an interesting lifespan um i mean i've been listening to it since like july of last year that's when i first heard

heard it and it dropped like first or second week of January like super duper early and everything about this album or at least the way glass beach operates has been just kind of downplaying it like they hate touring like you know they got COVID first time around touring like they just don't want anything to do with that you know they moved from L.A. to Tacoma. They just kind of retreated in a way which I think did a bit of a disservice in terms of like putting this album out there. And at the same time, this album is so fucking good. Like to the point where I loved the first glass beach album, which came out in 2019, which was like a really major success.

I mean, that I did extremely well on streaming. And this one feels a little bit more muted, the reception. But yeah, I just keep coming back this record because it's got so much like action and depth. You know, the first Glass Beach album was a little, let's just say, abrasive. a lot of people couldn't stand the voice. It was, you know, very fifth wave emo. This one's more proggy and art rock. There's a lot of radio.

There was a lot of radio head going on, a lot of, you know, like TV on the radio or what have you. And what I like about this record is that it just exists in its own universe. Like it has no real comparisons to what's happening in Indy Rock. And also it's the sort of record that people say isn't really made anymore. A lot of times when, I think when like, oh, for example, when TV on the radio came back, it's like, they don't make them like this anymore. You know, a band that engages with like art rock, but like also has, you know, melody and aspirations of stadium rock.

Like, oh, that's not happening anymore. Well, it is. But I don't know whether it's the fact they're on for run for cover or they just have this sort of divisive vocal style or they're just kind of seen as like a, you know, a Reddit sort a band. But yeah, I don't know what the future holds for Glass Beach. Maybe they'll make another record in five years or maybe they'll just like break up because they are just kind of insular people. But if you haven't revisited this record since it dropped in January, I would highly recommend doing so. It just continues to give, continues to reveal its depths and I will continue to sing

the praises of Glass Beach. See, I thought you might put this at number one. So I'm a little surprised It's at number three, but you said that all your top three are maybe a little interchangeable. So maybe it's like one C on your list or something. I like this record a lot. You know, you mentioned TV on the radio. I think if Glass Beach had like a wolf like me, it would make a difference. I think Poppy on this record could have been that. Maybe.

I mean, the record is very dense. And there's a ton of ideas on it. And, I mean, it is definitely like a, like, I feel like it's a straight up Prague rock. I don't even know if it's emo at all. To me, it just sounds like, you know, like a rush record at times or something. It has that vibe to it. And I say that in a complimentary way. Like, for me, at times, it could be like a little exhausting to listen to.

And maybe that's why I didn't have the legs for me as the year went on. But yeah, if you feel like indie bands are just recycling the same stuff over and over again and there's like not a lot of innovation or creativity, like listen to this record. There are ideas to burn. There might be too many ideas on this record, if that's possible. So, yeah, a very creative record, a lot going on. And yeah, I'm a fan as well. My number three, I listened to a lot of live recordings in my free time.

And this was actually a really good year for live albums. There's quite a few live albums on my proper list, which you can go see at Uprocks. But I also listened, you know, to recordings that artists and bands put out themselves. And there was one in particular that I listened to as much as any album. And I ended up putting it on my list, even though it is only available on nugs.net. But you can listen to it on nugs.net or you can buy the download. And I really think it's some of the most thrilling and exciting. And to use your word, action-packed music I heard this year.

It's Sergill Simpson at St. Paul, Minnesota on 925-24. This is an incredible live recording. And I'm a little biased because I was at this show. So maybe people who saw other dates on this tour would pick the show that they're at. But this is really like the tour of the year, as far as I'm concerned. Every night playing for three hours, playing 30 songs. And hitting upon this sound that is taking the southern. rock influences that are on the record that Sturgeoned

put out this year as Johnny Blue Skies, which is Passage do Dezier. And merging it with the muscular drone rock that he introduced on his 2019 record Sound and Fury, which was an album he was set to tour and then COVID happened. And it's almost like he's combining the energy that he didn't use on that tour and combined it with the energy of this tour. It's just unbelievable. It really is like half Grateful Dead, half Bruce Springsteen in the East Street band.

Just incredible energy, incredible jams. And he's really taking in the totality of his catalog here and playing it. And showing just like the range that he has where you know, you've got the honky tonk music, you've got some bluegrass, you've got arena rock, you've got the southern rock thing. And it's just an incredible, incredible recording. And again, I feel like if I was just talking about what may be the most excited this year to listen to and what was also my most listened to music, it had to be this. So I put it number three on my list. St. Paul, 925, 24.

Go to Nugs.net, stream it or download it now. Incredible concert recording. I know you're not big on live albums, Ian. But that shit sounds awesome. I'm not going to fucking lie, man. It's a fucking great show. Yeah, it sounds more exciting. I tried with like the Sturgel album

and I just haven't really cottoned on to that yet but you know what? Maybe 2025 is the year I become like a fucking jam guy. Like I mean I'm like The live recordings baby. Yeah. You know, it's amazing.

It is an amazing show. I was just floored by it. It's like honestly, I don't know, I had to put it on my list. I know it's not a strict album, but you know what? We don't follow the rules here

on the show or in my column. We just do the music that we think is the best. And I had to put that number three. number two we're getting to the top here what's your number two album of the year all right so you're correct in that this is number two but it's really more of a one b um yeah it was a big year for los camp casinos fans um it just the stars aligned where they made a record which was you know one of their best um i'd say it's top three you know and i'm not just saying that because i love everything they do like it's definitely a step up from um you know six scenes and for you know uh roman

is boring. But yeah, this was, it was just a really cool thing to see people, you know, like all the Los Campesinos fans come around to give their praise to all hell, which is the number two album on my list. Yeah, it's also kind of like, not quite like Glass Beach, but it's very much in its own universe, self-released, self-promoted, like everything about it was by and for Los Campesinos fans. And it's an album that really does sound like it took seven years to make in that like there's so much detail in the production. All of the lyrics are super annotated.

Like the genius page for Los Campesinos is popping. And it talks about, you know, politics and just like the state of the world in a way that is very heavily DSA, very heavily online, but like not pedantic. it's not like this is an album about the way we live laugh and love it's just like no this is what it's like to be this is what it's like to be kind of pissed off and like wondering if there's any hope um but also you like to watch sports and talk about food and you know maybe you want to get late every now and again so it is a it's it's just you know in the same way that liquid mic or um you know good looks would appeal to you just a lot of based on geography.

Campesinos, like, I live in that mindset. Like, there is a Los Campesinos guy, and I'm one of them. And when the time came for them to capitalize on the ground swell of goodwill, they've gotten over the past seven years, they've just proven to be massively influential. They nailed it. So, yeah, I will be listening to this album in 2025. I'll be listening to this album in 2026. I don't think it, I think it's underperformed on year end.

just because it's like the one person who's a Los Campesinos fan. At each publication was stumping for it. And, you know, that's not a real demographic. But, yeah, I'm that person. So number two on my list. So this is fascinating because you picked a veteran act making a late career masterwork that is extremely you. And I did the same thing at number two for me,

even though it's a much, it's a very different artist from Los Campesinos. but this is an artist who's been around for over a decade, who I think has one of the great bodies of work of an artist in the 21st century. I think all of his records are great. But this new one might be his best. I don't know. I feel like there's still a couple others

that I would have in the running. But just the fact that it's even in the conversation for his best, I think speaks for itself and explains why it's at number two on my list. I'm talking, of course, about Father John Mists. Mahash Mashana. Just a brilliant record. Eight songs. All them are fantastic.

This is a record where I think a lot of people, when they wrote about it, they talked about this is a return to form. It feels like a return to like the Father John Misty that we knew in the 2010s, which I think it is, but it also, I think, shows him reaching a new level of assurance and musical, just proficiency, where I think he's. operating on a level that shows that he's evolved over time. And is really writing, I think, with just even greater insight. And also, the music is just so well put together.

And you just feel like, wow, he's still doing it. The sixth record, it's so good. And the other thing about this record, too, is that it feels like he came out of, like, whatever media fog he's been in since Pure Comedy, where he's always been critically acclaimed, but there's always been a stink with him in certain record reviews. I mean, there is a sort of recurring motif

in Father John Misty album reviews where the writer will start off by saying, this guy really annoys me, but this is a great record. I feel like I saw that lead in a couple reviews, at least, on this album cycle, and I've seen them on other album cycles as well with this guy. I think we can finally maybe put that to bed at this point.

Like, can we just say, this guy's a pretty fucking great singer-songwriter and whatever quote you read in 2017 that annoyed you, like, seven years later, let's get over it, okay? This guy is brilliant. This is a brilliant record. You know, I'm glad he's back.

I look forward to many more records from this guy. This is my Los Casinos. Los Campesinos is your father, John Misty. It's very appropriate that they're both at number two. Yeah, I didn't want to. I was like, oh, he's going to say Xavier's so based. I mean, he's been just been making, like, hits for past five. I was doing the ropa dopa, Xavier so based.

You know, I thought. I was like, oh, wait, I'm going to drop him at number two. Steve's more of a net spend guy. Anyway, yeah, we're, we're, that's going to be like our, 20, 25, we are going to get involved with the Zillennial, very online rap scene. They're going to invite us to Bushwick. When it comes time to make the, uh, whatever you want to call this genre, uh, of music documentary on Music Box.

Steve and I are going to be there. We're not going to be wearing Blazers, but we're going to be figuring out whatever Xavier So Bayes fans wear. That's how we're going to work. We'll figure it out. Yeah. All right, here we go. We're at the top now.

A moment of truth here. Number one record for both of us. What is your number one album of 2020 in? All right. So, you know, by process of elimination, most listeners will figure this out. And like, I didn't expect this to be number one. As a matter of fact, when I've heard this album the first couple of times, I'm like, like they still got it uh like are they like am i phasing out of liking this band but um once this

album did hit i'm like oh wait this may it might not be their best but it like the fact that it is in the running for their best album like just shows me how fucking unbelievable it is and this would be foxing self-titled much like much like los campasino self-released uh self-produced um everything like is it's in-house this time. And the interesting about it is that it's a bit, I don't know if it's a reaction to the last album, which kind of, you know, like that album was divisive to say the least. And it reminded me that and similar to, you know,

The World's Beautiful Places, always foreign. Some of the emo albums that came out in like 2002 or 2003, like in Reverie or Woodwater, by the Promise Ring that like just kind of killed the band. But these bands rebound in the same way that the world is a beautiful place with illusory walls. I came back and made their like proggy unapologetic. Like we are doing this for us record that really evolved the band into something that way beyond emo. Foxing's new record is it's very emotionally compelling because like everything they do,

it's about like what it's like to put all of your efforts into things that don't necessarily pay off, which as a music writer is easy to relate to. But this album integrated a lot of like screamo. Some of it sounded like knocked loose in death heaven. It's some of their most like pop work as well. Some of the songs sound like yacht rock. I promise you that's the truth. Some of it sounds, of course, like TV on the radio. And it is just an album that like did its own thing. It like got through that difficult part of their career and i have no illusions about them playing stadiums or being in cochella or you know getting best new music or whatever it is that was the metric of um success that i had for near my god uh but this they they just nailed it completely and here's the funny part

this has an 88 on medic critic my review is the one dragging it down wow how about that Twist ending. Yeah. That's only because you have the integrity of the album's draft list and you're like, I'm not going to overrate this in case I draft this. No, it's because I reviewed it for pitchfork. Oh, there you go. So for right number one, to the surprise of no one, it's Manning Fireworks, M.J. Lenderman.

You know, I think you can relate to this, Ian. When you are thinking at the end of a particular year and you're thinking about your favorite albums, It's pretty easy, I think, to think about, oh, there's five, six albums that I really liked and that you want to talk about. But I think it's rare for a record to come into your life that you know is going to be an all-timer for you. A record that you know in the moment is this is going to be a great record. Because there are years where your favorite album of the year on your list, you like it a lot,

but you may not love it in a year or two. It's just the way it works. There's not an all-time classic record that comes out every year. And this is a record that for me, when it came out, is like, okay, this is going to be a record that I care about in 10 years and I'm going to want to put on for fun. Like, I just know it. And the same way I knew it when I heard Lost in the Dream, same way I knew it when I heard, I love you honeybear and whatever other kind of records you want to talk about. That was this record for me. It just delivers everything I want.

it is a funny record. There's sadness on it. It's really catchy. It doesn't take itself too seriously, but it's like not joky. It has great guitar solos. It's a record that I wanted to hang out with a lot. Like you said earlier about this record, this is the record you put on when you didn't know what to listen to. So you just put on Manning Fireworks. And for me, it was like, okay, if I'm hanging out outside or if I'm having a cookout or if I'm just watching sports with the announcer's turn, so you just put on Manning Fireworks. And for me, it was like, okay, if I'm hanging out outside or if I'm just watching sports with the announcer's off. Like, what do I want to put on? It was this record. It was like a pal to like, I think it's a pal to like, I think people who love this record, like that is, it's like that kind of record. And that's a whole other level of album. It's not just a good album. It's an album that you actually enjoy spending time with, that you kind of feel like you need to spend time with sometimes, because this makes you feel better. And that is a rare kind of album that does not come along every year. And that's what that record was for me.

And it was a no-brainer number one. And anyone who knows me knows that this was going to be a number one. So it's like the least suspenseful drop ever. But I don't know. MJ Lederman, he's been like at the top of my list now for like three straight years. You know, both songs, the live record. And the only reason I'm ever reticent to overpraise this guy, not that it prevents me from overpraise.

him is that I feel like he has this bulletproof guilelessness right now. And I don't want him to get like ruined by people like me saying how great he is. I want him to still be who he is and have this great career, like I said earlier, like a Wilco-like career where he can just have the space to make great records and he's not going to have all the bullshit that like ruins a lot of people when they start to get known a little bit. So I don't know. no, man. He's, I feel like he's like my quarterback. He's like my Jordan love of Indy Rock. Like, I don't want him to get hurt. I want him to have great seasons for the decades ahead. I was about to, you know, kind of close out on a sports cast in that he's kind of like Nicola

Yokic in that, like, he's won three straight MVPs or something like that. And he's like somehow even better this year. And also, you know, Yokic is a guy. He's like fucking cool, man. He just wants to go back to the Balkans and like farm horses at the end of the season and drink beer. He is like just like, like I don't know if I'd want to hang out with the guy, but he's just like, yeah, I want to root for him. He's not annoying. He's not annoying in the way like, you know, like Jason Tatum or Steph Curry are. Like they're kind of like that tech nerd dorky shit.

So yeah, MJ Lenderman, and I'm sure we're going to talk about this next week in terms of like albums that were even better than the hype. That's like Manning Fireworks. Like you just can't fuck. with it. It's like as good as people said it is, and it might even be better. It's like the album that's going to be like a five-star review in all-music guide

in two years. Yeah. People wanted to hate it. I think some people were annoyed by people, maybe like me or someone else who's like, oh, shut up about MJ Lenderman. But hopefully by now that it's died, I mean, you're probably going to hate them again because it's year-endless season you're hearing about all the record, this record

over and over again. But, you know, if you're annoyed by people like me, ignore people like me, just listen to the record. It's an amazing album. We got to check out here. Our Zoom is about to run out. So that is our cue to wrap it up. We'll be back next week with the last show of 2024,

the Indie Casties. Can't wait. I guess we'll have news and reviews and hashing out trends in that episode as well, of course. So thank you all for listening. We'll see you next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter.

You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.