Indiecast - Our First All 'Yay Or Nay?' Episode

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

It started out as a joke: Wouldn't it be funny if Indiecast did an entire episode of just "yay or nay?" responses to various stimuli? But then, listeners deluged Steven and Ian with "yay or nay?" emails about seemingly every band known to mankind. Clearly, they had no choice but to go full-on "yay or nay."They tackled quite the range of topics this week. Listeners wanted to hear their takes on the British dream pop band The Clientele (4:07) and the short-lived Canadian psych-rock outfit The Unicorns (13:30). Listeners were also curious about Indiecast's takes on indie bands who use backing tracks in their live shows and, most intriguingly, their views on the surprisingly convoluted world of Mortal Kombat soundtracks from the '90s.Steven and Ian also posited "yay or nay?" scenarios to each other. Ian wanted to know Steve's feelings about Pulp (41:30), and Steven presented an elaborate theory on why it feels weird to eat food at concerts (48:10).Is this the greatest episode of Indiecast ever? Quite possibly.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 141and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we present our first all-ye-or-Nay episode. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's the yay to my nay. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

So I'm reading this book right now called Unscripted, which is about the, like, some the Redstone and Viacom and CBS. It's basically the inspiration for a lot of the plot points of succession. And one of the things they bring up this term is like a breach of fiduciary duty to shareholders. And I mean, are we doing that right now by banking an episode when there's like Oasis, the 1975 beef ongoing right now? Yeah. So Ian just announced this is a banked episode. That's why we're doing all yea or nay. Although we've threatening to do this for a while. I call it promising to do it. Threatening, I think this is what the people want.

I mean, I feel like it came up as a joke at some point, and then it became real, because we started getting a ton of yay or nay emails, and they've just been stockpiling. So I was just like, we should just do, like, an entire yay or nay episode, and then also throw out some of our own yay or nay scenarios. You're right, though. I mean, this is like a busy time of the year. We're actually starting to get a lot of music news after May was pretty dead. But June's going to be hopping.

But we're baking this episode because I'm off the last week of May into June. It's a working vacation because I have a book deadline in June. And I have to basically just do like revisions for like a week. I'm like 92% of the way there. But like that last 8% is really important. So I had to take the week off. We're banking this episode. It's all yay or nay.

I mean, you're referencing the Oasis 1975 beef. You're referring to the Noel Gallagher quote. Where, what did he call Medihealy? A pawns, I don't know, man. Like, what are those oasis? One of those terms that sounds like super hell oeweak when like an average British guy says it, but like when one of the Gallagher brothers says it,

it's the most like devastating crawl into a whole insult imaginable. I believe that the term slackjod was in there somewhere. which is great. That's brilliant. That may be old news by the time this episode post, or maybe there's a whole week of insults that we missed out on recapping. And I'm going to feel bad about that. But, you know, it just had to be done. So you're on your Amma Fix Wolf's shit right now. So exactly. Exactly. I'm with Rick Rubin and Paris, you know, trying to whittle down Yeez us into like a masterpiece. So that's where we're at right now. But yeah, I'm excited. said it for yay or nay.

I'm trying to remember how this got started. I think someone wrote in and we did like a yay or nay on, I forget what band it was. Yeah, it wasn't against me. That wasn't the first one. But I feel like that was like a definitive one because it set the, you know, it set the trend of us talking about bands that like are kind of in our general sphere, but like we never really levied an opinion upon. Right, exactly.

So, and there's, you know, there's people out there. They want to know our yea or nay take on pretty much every band on the planet. So we're going to be talking about some bands here. But we also have like broader concepts as well. I have a concept for you that I want to bring up because it's something that it's one of those things that like I realized about myself makes no sense in terms of like my show etiquette or my show sort of demeanor like when I go to concerts. And I want to bring it up with you. But we'll get to that later. Let's get to our first yea or nay.

This comes from Michael and Nyak. I think it's Nyak. Nyak? Yeah. You kind of have nay or yay in the name of this town. Yeah, that's pretty, yeah, that's pretty cool. Nyak. Nyak is sort of like if you're in the middle.

Right. If you're not sure. Neck. Like, yeah, it's like, eh, like the kind of midway, yeah. Yeah, like you could go either way. That's the push. So, Neack. Neack, New York.

Yeah. Michael. To a great start. Yeah, I think that's good, though, because I actually do have a push for one of our categories here. So I'm going to throw out the NIAC for that. Anyways, Michael from NIAC, New York, he asks, the clientele, yay or nay. Now, the clientele, of course, banned from London. They've been around for about 25 years, well-respected indie institution.

I believe they have a record coming out next month. They do. Actually, yeah, in July or something along there. lines. Yeah, they're definitely an album. A clientele season approach it. So we're getting ahead of the curve there. I don't know if we would have done a clientele episode. So it's good to talk about them now. Maybe we'll revisit when that album drops if it is a late career masterpiece or not. But clientele, I mean, they've got a lot of albums. They've been around for a long time. Yeah or nay, Ian. So you said they've been around for about 25 years in the promo I got for the new record. They said

32 years, which is absolutely mind-blowing to consider. But their first record came out in 2000, right? Yeah, and that was a compilation of stuff they'd been working through the 90s. So I actually wrote a 20th anniversary piece for Suburban Light, which is considered, I guess, their first album when it's really a compilation. Just for that alone, I'm extremely yay on the clientele. So, like, were they putting out singles then in the 90s? Yeah, like extremely British indie.

move to put out like a bunch of singles with B-sides on the you know a bunch of labels that are defunct right now and so I think there's been like three different versions of suburban light based on like who's reissuing it like there was the original one and then merge signed them and put out a new version with a couple of songs and a different cover and then they did it again for the 20th anniversary where they removed some songs so I don't see it as like squeezing a dime out of, you know, the clientele hive. But it's pretty... So they had like a seven-year run of just singles? I guess so. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy.

But yeah, I'm extremely yay on this. I love suburban lights so fucking much. Also, strange geometry, which came out in 2005. I mean, we can do an entire month or year of 2005 Indian, just a lot of great memories associated with that one. It's kind of like the, like, the, like, Suburban. Light was there one that was very, it was like low-fi but not like gritty. It was just, you know, like what state of the art, bedroom pop, what that meant for like the UK in 1998, great poetic

lyrics. Like one of my favorite music writer lines of all time came from Mark Richardson writing about this band. He said, when your parents complained that you didn't live in the real world, this is where you were hiding. And, you know, I discovered this band when I was like 22 or 23. And boy, that really struck home. So, and, you know, they've put out a lot of really good records in the time since. I sort of lost track of them with God Save the Clientel, which was in 2007. Just a really extremely well-produced record. And, you know, aside from like those two massive peaks of strange geometry and suburban light,

they're kind of a song-by-song band for me. You know, I like a couple from each record and I pay attention, but I don't really love them in the same way. Their new song, the new song they put out, sounds, and this is like so deep in the weeds indie cast core, it sounds exactly like Mr. E's beautiful blues by the Eels. Oh, man. Boy, that's a future, yay or nay.

That's too deep even for me, man. I mean, if you just said Eels, I'd be with you, but if you're dropping like specific songs by the Eels, then I start to drift into outer space a little bit. I don't go deep with that band at all. I mean, like with the clientele, they're a band that, like, I don't go deep on. But whenever I listen to them,

I feel like I should own every album. Like, they're a really good band at what they do, which, as you said, is this sort of bedroom pop, jangly guitars, the kind of music that could have come out in 1967 or 1997 or 2007, it doesn't really belong to any one particular era. It just feels like this kind of music. It's like what it always sounds like.

And they're one of the best practitioners of it. I mean, it does seem to me that they have a pretty fixed style where if you have a record like Suburban Light, you may not need the other albums because you can kind of get what you need from that. I mean, that could be a wrong impression because, again, I don't go as deep with this band as I do with, say, like Yola Tango.

or Stereo Lab, who in my mind I group with the clientele, even though, I mean, I guess the clientele was a 90s band because they were putting out these British EPs. I mean, even though, like, here in America, I feel like it really wasn't until the 2000s that people started listening to them. So they're in this sort of like weird area, I think, where, like, I don't think people talk about them with the same level of passion that they do like a Yolatango, partly because they're not as good as Yolotango, but also I think the clientele, they kind of exist in their own solar system, where, in a weird way, they sound like a 90s band, but like they're associated with the 2000s. They make this music that doesn't really feel like it fit with what else was

going on in indie music at the time. Like, they just kind of do their own thing, which is great. But yeah, they're an interesting band. They're like their own moon, I think. But, yeah, but, yeah, Yeah, I give them a yay too. I like them. Sometime I'm going to go on a clientele kick and go really deep with this band. But for now, I'd say for those of you out there who haven't listened to them, Suburban Light is the place to start, right? Would you say that?

I'd say so. You know, I think if you start there, that gives you a sense of like, you know, what they're, like, why they have such a big indie following. But I would say that like strange geometry is the best front to back. And it's a little more accessible. the productions better. The songs are a bit more catchy, but there's a lot more charm with suburban light.

And I mean, when I listen to the, I get like, not like wistful, but like actually kind of sad when I listen to these albums now. They just seem like too beautiful to exist in the world that we currently live. I just can't think of the modern equivalent of a,

not even a band that sounds like the clientele, but like a band that does this sort of thing at the current moment. Because, you know, there's a lot of bands doing like Dream Pop, or, you know, British indie or like Smith's type stuff, but it's, it just can't hit the same, it just cannot hit the same chord. Yeah, I mean, like real estate, I think, hits some of the same notes, but in a weird way,

the clientele has like a mystery to them, maybe because they're British, that like real estate doesn't. Real estate feels more like, okay, I know who these dudes are. Yeah. I have a sense of who this is. There's not like the mystery there. They're writing about, like, life in New Jersey. Yeah, suburban New Jersey.

Yeah. suburban New Jersey and I guess the clientele in a way are too because the word suburb is literally in the title of like their first full album. But I don't know. You know, we were talking in our previous episode about indie sleaze and these early clientele records coincide with that era. But like this is probably like the least sleazy band of like aughts indie. I can't think of like a less sleazy band. If you know where to look, there's a lot of drugs going on in, uh, The clientele stuff.

Like, reflections after Jane is clearly about weed. Like, since Kay got over me is apparently about doing ketamine. I guess, but like it doesn't have a sleazy vibe. Oh, absolutely not. It's more of like a, I'm laying in my bedroom with the lights off, and I'm stoned, and I'm listening to this beautiful music. It's not like I'm doing blow off of keys and trashy bathrooms. You know, like, that's the indie sleaze vibe.

So, yeah, so we're both yay on the clientele. hard to imagine being nay on the clientele. I guess if you don't like beautiful, jangly guitar pop music. I guess there's people out there who don't like that kind of thing. Yeah. I want to hear from that. Let's get, I mean, don't do it as a bit. But like if you, if you, like, if you, like, a 40-something person who just did not get the hype back in, like, 2003 or 2005, right in. We want to hear from you. Ah, do we, though? Do we want to hear from those people? Do we want to hear, like, because they're just going to say it's boring or, I don't know. We don't need to hear that. Let's get to our next

year-or-n-n-nay here. Do you want to read this email? Yeah, totally. So this is from Stephen from the Bronx. Yes. From the Bronx. This is the yay or nay of New York. We have like Nyack, which I imagine is like very bucolic and like the Bronx. Just like to say Bronx.

Like, just let you know. I'm Stephen from the Bronx. Yeah. That's how he introduces himself at all times, I imagine. So the unicorns. Yeah, oh man. The unicorns. yay or nay. As someone who was 15 when Who Will Cut Our Hair

When We're Gone came out. There is a seminal band of that era to me. But I've never heard that kind of love from anyone older? My obscure indie Flex was that I was at their breakup show in Houston in 2004. A truly disastrous evening. So he's saying that

they're like a millennial band and not like you know like people like an older millennial or Gen Xer wouldn't like the unicorns? I'm not sure about that, Stephen from the Bronx. There's probably like a range of ages of people who guided into this band. And for those who don't know, the unicorns, they were this band from Canada who put out one record,

and I believe 2003 called Who Will Cut Our Hair When We're Gone? And it got a lot of hype at the time. And then they imploded pretty soon after that. And yeah, this is an interesting thing to bring up. I don't really hear the unicorns referenced much these days. And they're another band that feels a little out of place in the odds. I guess you could group them with maybe fiery furnaces. Like in some way could be in a similar type vibe to the unicorns.

They toured with fiery furnaces. Okay, well, there you go. And hot, hot heat and the Decembris and Arcade Fire. So yeah, December is two maybe they're like a less antic version of what the unicorns do. I mean, in my mind, I think of them as an elephant six band that happened to live in Canada and came like around about six years too late. Like that's the vibe I get from from them. And, you know, at the time this record didn't really connect with me and I actually revisited it because of Stephen from the Bronx here bringing it up. I got to go nay

I'm not a huge fan of this band but it's a weak nay because I do feel like I have some friends I think who like the unicorns and it's possible that I'll be at a cabin someday with like these college friends of mine

and this album will come on and I'll have just the right number of Miller Highlights in me to like really connect with it so it's a weak nay but I'm open to it being a yay at some point. Yeah, I've been like in a very consistent state of that with this band for the past 20 years. And I think it's funny you mentioned them being like an elephant six band.

Like the label they were on was like Alien 8, like the number 8. So it's kind of sort of like the 90s version of that or sorry, the 2000 versions of that. But yeah, the unicorns are a band that like I've tried many, many times to get into like in 2003 when I was like, peak pitchfork pill than just like forcing myself to like stuff like fiery furnaces or deer hoof who you know i associate them with or juju um i like sort of like that one island's album in 2006 so uh oh yeah tried that too uh jogging gorgeous summer great song um and every now and like i feel like every year there's like a unicorns discussion on like amongst my music twitter friends and you know some people are like yep just still don't get it and other people feel like they

were you know pop geniuses like this is like it's sort of like from like the whole sid barrett lineage of like these fatally flawed like pop masterworks that you know just never got the attention they deserved and i don't know when i go back to this album like i think back to hearing this you know cracked pop genius stuff like with deer hoof and fiery furnaces that was like used by critics back in the early 2000s and you know when I think about that I'm like maybe pop-timism wasn't such a bad idea you know because like this was this was the kind of critical discourse that was happening like look I am all for like annoying shit music I love the may she I think there's some elements of the unicorns in glass beach and you know maybe some of the more fifth wave emo stuff I like but

I'm like disappointed in myself that I haven't come around on this band. Yeah, I, you know, I think there were other examples of people doing this at the time that just caught on a little bit better. Like I think of like of like of Montreal for instance. Oh, of course. Yeah, absolutely. Like they had a moment. Like that's a band.

Do we want to do a quick yay or nay on up on Montreal? Like they call it honorable like, yeah or nay or nay? Because I'm at a yay of Montreal. They're a band I think that's kind of underappreciated. at this point. They really had a moment around the same time in the mid to late Otts, where they were doing some really cool things with bringing, I guess, like an R&B sort of prints aspect into like this Elephant Six template.

And their live shows were fantastic at that time. Like, they were a really good live band. I'm not sure, like, what is the status of Montreal? I lost track with them Like a round like skeletal lamping like that Period like I feel like they started It started to get a little too maybe convoluted Like there was that period

You know In the mid-auts again like What's that record? Hittanic Fawn are you the Destroyer That one and there's a satanic panic at the picnic or something That one came before Yeah like that stretch I think was really strong And then they fell off

But you mentioned Glass Beach, and I feel like they totally have it of Montreal influence on what they're doing. That's a band that I think people should go back to, though, and revisit. I think there's, like, a lot of ground that they cover, things that people could take from that band and extrapolate and turn into, like, a whole other thing. Yeah. I mean, look, I lived in Athens, Georgia from 2003 to 2006, and, like, you would hear, oh, Kevin Barnes is at this party. Also, one thing I love about Kevin Barnes is that in the Endless, endless book written about The Elephant Six Collective, it mentions that they are, they were good friends with Mark Tramante, who eventually joined Creed. They were like inseparable growing up, and I think Kevin Barnes is still a Cleveland Browns fan. Yeah, Hissing Fawn are You the Destroyer, great record.

Like, of Montreal is a band that, like, a lot of bands like we talk about in Year and A, I love one album. and like the rest I could take or leave. The thing I love about this band is that when you look back at the concept of hissing fun, are you the destroyer and skeletal lamping it's about. And, you know, Kevin Barnes has undergone some like, I believe they've, you know, come out as either non-binary, like there, or something along those lines.

Like in the book, Endless Endless, it's, they use he, pronouns, like saying that, like, they eventually switched to she. but yeah at that time they were a like Georgie fruit they thought that like they they invented like a black transsexual like

version of themselves like you just can like shit you cannot do in 2023 but it's somehow worked it's sort of like a reflection of its time and sort of ahead of its time in a weird way but just in a bit of a awkward kind of clumsy way

yeah and there is like an indie sleaze element a little bit of Montreal, but it's more theatrical. Absolutely. I would say it's more imaginative. By the way, Mark Tramante, I'm going to give him a yay. I interviewed him for my Woodstock 99 podcast. Very nice guy. I've heard from other people that he's a mensch, you know, that he's a good dude.

So like if Tramante and Kevin Barnes are still friends, I could see that. It seems like Mark Tramante of Creed. If you're going to hang out with anyone from Creed, make it Mark Tramante. Yeah, I'm going to give him a yay. I'll give him a yay. Do you have an opinion on Mark Tramonte? The higher riff kind of goes.

I'm not going to fucking lie. All right, let's get to our next, yay or nay. This comes from Eric in Madison, Wisconsin. Yes. Good to hear from the Skonis out there. Eric says, Big fan of the show.

I want to know your opinion on backing tracks at Indy Rock shows. Yay or nay? This came up because I saw a video of Munah performing Silk Chavon with Boy Genius at Coachella. The performance itself is great, but I got super distracted by the big distorted guitar sound in the chorus that nobody on stage seems to be playing.

I'm not throwing shade at Muna because I know Pop-backs use backing tracks all the time, but it made me realize how much of the appeal of live music for me is seeing songs arranged into something that the people on stage can play. I feel like it wouldn't have been that hard at Coachella to get someone, and even Julian Bacon or Lucy Dacus on stage to mash those power cords so the visual of the show match up with the audio.

What do you think? Am I being an elitist, rockist? So, Eric wants to know, backing tracks at live shows, yay or nay. Well, yeah, I'll just say, Eric, yes, you are being an elitist rockist. You're like, what an asshole this now. I'm just playing. I would say that, like, I've noticed this more and more. And, like, you know, I knew back in the day, like, with really, really,

big stadium bands. Sometimes they would have guitarists hidden behind the stage especially if it was like a power trio. But Eric gets to a point which I think I agree with, which is that it kind of depends on what the backing tracks are. You know, like a lot of times you'll see a band use like drum triggers or like synthesizers.

Because look, I don't think you need to learn from Indycast that it's really hard for bands out there. there to bring shit on the road. Like, not just, like, the finances of bringing this equipment, but you see how many times, like, synths get stolen or just vans get broken into. And, like, I think it's really cool when huge bands bring, like, one instrument that they use for, like, five seconds of a song. Like, when I saw Robert Smith play a flute at the beginning of burn, or when I saw

a bright eyes and they had, like, a baritone guitar for, like, one song. but I think I can't say yay or nay this because it's so contextual like when I saw 100 gecks the other week it was like all backing tracks I'm told they brought out a guitar for like one song but you know

no one's there to like see 100 gex like reimagine dumbest girl live for acoustic setting you just want to hear the song dumb the fuck out and in that situation it's great and you know if there's something that's little more like kind of gimmicky like a sample that needs to be replaced verbatim fine uh i can't imagine

how i would react if m83 didn't have a saxophone guy for midnight city i mean they do bring a guy like fortunately they have saxophone on multiple songs but um yeah but like i i think i think it kind of depends for a band like muna who's like you know not necessarily like a power trio, like guitar, drums, bass. Like, I'm fine with that. But I saw a bit, like, when I saw a Ben Quad a little while ago, great Oklahoma emo band, like a lot of emo bands, they have, like, uh, like samples from like TV shows that they use instead of stage band or while they tune. And they got their gear stolen the night before. So they had to like talk before. So if it's not a load bearing thing, like, yeah, then I'm against it, but if you need to do it, just the order to put on a show, that's fine.

Like, I, I know that's, like, kind of wishy-washy, but it's all context. So what you're saying is that you're giving it a NIAC. Yeah, that's pure NIAC. Yeah, I'm going NIAC on this one, too, for the reasons that you said. I think that, especially for smaller indie bands, if you only need a certain sound on, like, one song, you can't really justify bringing like another musician on the road. You know, you got to operate on a budget in these situations. So especially like with smaller bands, I, I tend to be more understanding about pre-recorded backing tracks. I will say though, I mean,

I get where Eric is coming from, our letter writer here, because I do think it is a little deflating if you go to a show and you realize that like not all the music is, is live. that's not really why you go to a show and it just makes it, I think, less exciting to see a band if the guitar being piped in is not being played by anyone. It's just like from the record that you can just listen to at home. My favorite example of this phenomenon, and I don't know if I've talked about this on the show before,

just because I think it's so hilarious, but I saw MGMT on the Congratulations Tour. And in the main set, you know, they have a band and they were basically just playing songs from congratulations and very indifferently received in the audience. And then for the encore, you know, the two guys that come out by themselves and they basically just like press a button on a laptop and like kids comes on. And it's just the backing track from kids. And like they're singing over the backing track in a very nonchalant way. And it's like the worst performance of the night, but the crowd goes crazy because they've been waiting for this song, you know, the whole show. And I think they played another hit from the first record.

I think it was probably Electric Field that they did after that or in some order. And they did those songs to backing tracks. And it was almost like they wanted to make it clear how little of a shit they gave about these performances. because they had a band there. They could have played these songs with a band. But it was like, okay, we know they don't want to hear our, like, zany, adventurous new material. They just want to hear the hits. So let's just give it to them in the most perfunctory manner imaginable.

And the backing tracks, I think, in a sense, were like a middle finger to the audience. But again, the audience didn't care because they just wanted to hear that. So it was like this protest that kind of proved why they were protesting. So yeah, I don't know. I'm giving it a NIAC. Like you said, if you're seeing 100 gecks,

you know, do you want them or need them to be touring with like an eight-piece band and, you know, with lots of chops and all that kind of stuff? Not really. But, you know, if you can afford it, if you're playing Coachella, like Eric said,

hand Julian Baker a guitar have her strike some chords and there you go maybe that would be a fun thing to do yeah I mean who wouldn't want to see that I imagine they'd eat that shit up but I man I haven't heard that MGMT story but I love it it's like hey this is basically karaoke now

like here you go you dumb fucks like when I saw MGM I just like want to see MGMT because like every time they come to town just for how they treat that song because when I saw it just like having the big nostalgia fest of 2019 they were just like

taking as long as humanly possible within their 45 minutes set so it's like hey if we like play our new shit for long enough maybe we can get away with like playing like us like a verse of kids like when you see like rap shows like sometimes they'll just do like one verse of their hit song

and this also we haven't even talked about like what it's like when you know when you see like a rap show and it's like they have like like the rap over the actual CD with like the vocals already on it. It's a real sight to behold. Yeah. MGMT, yay or nay.

We're both yay on that, right? Yeah, very yay. Conceptually, one of the greatest yay, like huge yay conceptually. Have I listened to their self-titled since I reviewed it 10 years ago? Absolutely not. But, you know, I love the content. I just love their approach. Are you yay or nay?

Congratulations, are you yay or nay? You know what? Like, I don't know if I've actually listened to that album in full. Oh, my God. I know, right? Like, I'm surprised as you are by that. But maybe that's going to, you know, with the two weeks that we have between, you know, now and our next recording, I promise I'll give it a shot. I'm a strong yay on congratulations.

I wrote a piece about congratulations for, I don't even think it was linked to an anniversary. I think I just wrote about it. I think because MGMT had a new album out and I just wanted to write about congratulations just because I love that record. It's like one of the great like sophomore albums of like modern times. Like the we're gonna totally just try to lose our audience type

sophomore record that like was common in the 90s and like no one makes anymore. Like no one really sets out to do like the alienating confrontational second record. And then I remember there actually was like a 10 year anniversary of congratulations, and I pitched it again to my, to my editor, Phil, and he had to remind me, like, you wrote about this like two years ago. And I was like, really? I totally forgot. I was just like so psyched to write think pieces about congratulations that I totally forgotten.

Yeah, you should have me do it and just like have you ghost write it. Yeah, yeah, I'm just like, I can't believe you haven't listened to that in full. I, you know, man, I don't know what I was up to in 2010. That was. was a strange time. But a little dark age. That's a great song. That is, but that's on a later record. Yeah, that's the one maybe you wrote about. That came out in like 2018 or something like that. Yeah, yeah. That's a great record. I like all their records. Congratulations, though, as a warm place of my heart. All right, well, let's get to our next one. This is a good one. Yeah, I love the, I think that this episode is justified for this question alone.

So this comes from Kevin from Ventura, California. And Kevin asks us, I don't even want to like read their letter. I just want to like read Mortal Kombat soundtracks and just have us riff from there. But Kevin says my favorite albums from when I was 10, the Mortal Kombat 1 and 2 soundtracks, yay or nay.

So this is a fascinating question because I had not heard the Mortal Kombat. soundtracks one and two before we got this letter here from Kevin. And it really is like a rabbit hole of music here because, well, first of all, these are all these albums are like time capsules for new metal, post-grunge and like techno, basically, like from the 90s, like the three greatest genres of all time, all together in one place. and it's crazy because, okay, so he makes reference to

Mortal Kombat soundtracks one and two, but there's like a ton of Mortal Kombat albums. Like I was going on Wikipedia, and okay, so there's the Mortal Kombat movie soundtrack, which is one of the albums he's talking about. And then there's also Mortal Kombat, More Combat. That one killed me. I love that.

Yeah, that's also, that's a, like another soundtrack for the first film, I guess because the first soundtrack was so successful. And then there's also Mortal Kombat, the album, which was a soundtrack released for the video game. I think the year before the film came out. And that's just the score by the Immortals, who are the group that composed like the techno music that you hear in Mortal Kombat. And then Mortal Kombat, too, is you referring to like there's a sequel? to Mortal Kombat?

Yeah. The Mortal Kombat soundtrack extended universe is way more convoluted than any of us could anticipate because there's tons of them. Yeah, because there's the movies, but like there's the direct of video movies and the soundtrack and then like apparently the first movie and the first soundtrack were so popular. It was taken as a mandate for more of the same. So, yeah, and this is just a great relic of the CD buying.

because my favorite albums from when I was 10. Like, I know this dude had this, like, scratched up a Mortal Kombat soundtrack that, like, he could only hear three minutes, like two out of the three minutes of Utah Saints doing a song called Utah Saints take on the theme for Mortal Kombat. Like, I'm just picturing Kevin as, like, A.J. Soprano.

Like, that's who I'm picturing, like, listening to these albums, Yeah, it's like, yeah, you have Utah Saints. You have like Stabbing Westward. You have three. I got to mention like this is like pre-new metal like before it started. But like I got to like before we talk more about stabbing Westward, I got to like include this fun fact, which is that three stabbing Westward songs were included in the movie,

but they weren't on the soundtrack. I'm thinking because like TVT, the label which, you know, had nine inch nails, pretty hate machine. I guess they were trying to juice the sales of ungod. Yeah, because you have, okay, so they're not on here, but you have Gravity Kills. Hell yeah. The demo version of Goodbye. You have KM, FDM, it's a Georgio Moroto, like, remix of a song called Juke Joint Jezebel. Oh, hell yeah. I remember hearing that on the radio. Is a song by Tracy Lords on here? Is that like the Tracy Lords, the porn star, or is there

like a different Tracy Lords? So you bring that up because there's also a song which is George S. Clinton featuring Buckethead, and it's not that George Clinton. Well, that's why he has the S in there. He's got to, like, he's got to differentiate. Yeah, there's a lot of confusion going on. You got Fear Factory. You have Orbital. You have a napal death song. Hell yeah. But it's not you suffer. Like how, like on a movie that is, like on a video game, which is, fatality. Like, that's the big thing. It's a one second fatality. You had, you got to put you suffer on

there. So, like, okay, so the mortal, because, okay, I'm looking this up. Because, like, Mortal Kombat 2, like that is for the film, or is that just, like, another video game soundtrack? I know there was a second movie. I'm pretty sure it's the movie. Okay. Again, this is very confusing. I feel like this has opened up a world for me that I didn't know existed, and now I'm being driven insane trying to decipher it because I just want to know

if Kevin was also into like just like the score like the techno score of the or was he like okay I love I want to hear the demo version of goodbye so I'm going to buy this album like what was the motivation here

I'm very curious I mean obviously he was a fan of the game and then presumably he saw the film like have you seen the movie I have not seen the movie, but I get a feeling that I could probably explain what happens. Okay, because I'm looking this up. Mortal Kombat 2, it says it's the soundtrack from the arcade game.

It's by a dude named Dan Forden. Sure. And this came out in 1993. So, okay, so there's a, the game Mortal Kombat 2 is, it's not the sequel to the film. It's just like the sequel to the video game. Yeah, I'm unclear on whether he's a fan of the arcade. game soundtracks or like the film soundstracks. Absolutely have to be the film soundtracks because I don't know.

I don't know because like is he going to the films as like a 10 year old? Like are these movies like rated R? I imagine but like I don't know. You have permissive parents back then but you know like you mentioned AJ Soprano. Like this is like the perfect like pre new metal sort like this miasma out of which you know new metal grew because you have like. you have like the you have like the kind of heavy industrial techno uh acts like a lot of like the post nine inch nails uh gold rush bands like gravity kills and probably god lives underwater and

mother's day out like if you if you can remember mother's day out like you like that is st. rememberance of guys. It's like it's like rat metal before rap metal and you know and yeah I just think about this is like a yay on general principle

because you know as we've talked about so many times the most interesting things to discuss like aren't the great albums but like what happens when there's just like a lot of money going around and nobody knows what to do with it. And by the way like the Mortal Kombat soundtrack

or just the Mortal Kombat soundtrack or just the Mortal Kombat song and the industrial versions of it. I spent like a good amount of like my teen years thinking like, oh, this is what people mean when they say rave music or techno. It always sounds like the Mortal Kombat theme song. Like that was my grasp on what electronic music was as a teen. So I'm digging in here. There's also the Mortal Kombat annihilation soundtrack.

And it has some of the same artists. You have CAM, FDM. you have you have a megas song on here that was remixed so it's i'm guessing that's like a techno re-spin on like a megadeth song you have a like a romstein song you have face to face little soCal punk on here uh you have somebody called scooter sure and psychs uh psychosonic they were also on the other one

scooter is definitely the kid of a tvt executive uh more George S. Clinton. He was eating in the 90s. Wow. Yeah, man, this is just a rich world. I feel like this could have been its own episode just talking about Mortal Kombat spin-off soundtracks. Yeah, I got some homework. I got to listen to MGMT, congratulations, and I got

to listen to the Mortal Kombat Annihilation soundtrack. I am so looking forward to your vacation. Yeah, man, that's going to be a hell of a day there. Man, you're going to have some great nightmares that night after that combination of music. Let's get to some of our own Yeah, yearnay scenarios. Do you have one for me?

Yeah, and I'm like, I'm all, I'm like already regretting this choice because we were having so much fun and talking about this like mid-90s trash and we're just going in the completely opposite direction with this one. But, you know, we've talked a lot on this episode about your view on like Blurr versus Oasis. And like I know our audience knows where you stand on this. but there's kind of an in-between of these two bands that I want to talk about, and that's Pulp, because, I mean, in terms of comportment, like, pulp is very much more, like, blur than Oasis, but they were kind of seen as these, like, instigators taking down, like, the whole, like,

deflating the big Brit Rock royalty thing, at least before OK computer kind of killed it all. And so they, they, I don't think they, like, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they made, we love life in 2001. I think they broke up and Jarvis Cocker has gone on to make a lot of solo records and just kind of be this guy who's just in the general atmosphere of music of that sort. But I'm curious to know like what your take is on pulp. I'm a fan of Pulp. His and Hers is a really good record.

The one after it that has common people on it. Different class. There you go. And then I think this is hardcore was the one after. that one. That's the run that I'm most familiar with. I mean, there's albums before that and there's albums after that, but like those three were the big ones. And it is like a, there's an arc to those three where, you know, his and hers is like the scrappy Brit Pop album where it kind of feels like that's where it all came together for them. And then different classes like their,

what's the story, morning glory, you know, like where this is where they really become as, like, I mean, they weren't really superstars in America, but like they were, a cult band in America and that was like the big record. And then this is hardcore. In a way, kind of feels like there be here now. I mean, it's like not as bloated as be here now is in the best and worse ways. But there is a sort of like hangover feeling to that album that is part of like what makes it like fun or maybe fun's not the right word, but it makes it good to listen to. So those are the three records that I'm biggest on with Pult.

But yeah, I'm definitely a yay on them. How about you? So this is a band that I loved in high school, which is a very odd thing to say, you know, as we're talking about, you know, like listening to like Mortal Kombat soundtracks and tool and playing like Golden I-S64. This was a band that I listened to a lot in high school because I felt like listening to Pult made me feel smart or at least appear smart. Like imagine being like 18 years old listening to this is hardcore and like the title track just talking about like the complete emptiness of having too much sex and be like yeah that that's something I totally relate to as a senior in high school. Yeah, I'm jaded as fuck. And I don't like in the in the time since like my tastes have shifted. And this kind of ties in with like our, you know, the indie sleaze conversation.

But like I find that like when I reach for, you know, rock music of that era. I'm like leaning way more towards like verve and oasis and the stuff that like is fake profound, but rather than like these withering views of like adulthood. And also I think that Jarvis Cocker, he makes me think of like the, you know, the old phrase possibly apocryphal like David Lee Roth saying that like music critics like Elvis Costello because they, you know, they look more like him. I think Jarvis Cocker is like a guy. that music critics of a certain age like kind of think they're him

or they like kind of aspire to be him and you know that's like kind of a turnoff like and I know that's like my problem but you know when I listened to this is hardcore recently you know I enjoyed it like not because I relate more to it now that I'm like the age that it's meant for

I think musically it's really interesting it's a daring record in terms of deflating their big like their big, you know, their big moment with common people, which was seen as like kind of toppling the Glastonbury hegemony. I hate the way I sound when I say that. But yeah, this is, I'm like, I'm like yay in private, but like nay in public, you know, with this band.

I feel like, you know, there's just this kind of, I don't know, like costume that comes with liking pulp that I find. to be, you know, reflexively not great. And so, yeah, a band that, I don't know, discourse is not totally ruined for me, but, like, has made me less inclined to like them. Yeah, I'll say that, like, his and hers is a record that I think is the one I'm going to reach for if I'm listening to this band.

And I think, because that's right before maybe some of the things you're talking about, like, set in. And it is interesting how you frame them as, like, midpoint between Oasis and Blur because I do feel that Pulp musically does have some of the fun that you get from Oasis Records.

And Blur's a fun band too. It's not like they're overly intellectualized or anything, but I don't know. Pulp to me, I guess just like Jarvis Cocker appeals to me as a lead singer, I feel like there's obviously a lot of people after him who have taken something from what he's done, you know, whether we're talking about like

Matt Berninger or we're talking about like Alex Turner from the Arctic monkeys. I mean, he does, Franz Ferdinand. There is that sort of like arch Bowie thing that he has that he did in the 90s like as well as anybody. And so he's like maybe a missing link between like Bowie and like these modern kind of poetic deep voice guys who wear suits and feel like a little intoxicated when they're on stage. I mean, that's the whole jar. this Cocker thing. And I, and I respond to that, I think, more than you do. So I, I can connect with that part of pulp. So yeah, his and hers, different class. Those two records, I think, are really good British rock records of the 90s. So yeah, strong yay for me. So I have a kind of an unusual

yay or nay for you. And I want to set this up a little bit because I was at a baseball game last month with my family. And when you take kids to any kind of game, you have to expect that you're going to spend like $100 hours on food. Because if they're not eating, they're instantly bored. So you've got to just be throwing hot dogs and big pretzels and nachos into their face just to keep them engaged with the game. And I'm eating food myself.

If I go to a baseball game with a friend, I'm always eating food. or if I'm going to a basketball game or a football game, I usually get something to eat at some point. And it got me thinking about concerts and how when I go to a game in an arena or a stadium, I'm eating food. But if I go see a band in the same space, I rarely, if never, get food. And in a way, it feels kind of strange to me to be mowing down on like chili cheese fries. if there's a band on stage. It just made me feel like that doesn't really make any sense.

What is the difference between a show or a game? Why can't you eat or why does it feel weird to eat at these shows? And it made me think too like when you go to a club show there's never food options

or rarely there are food options. You know, you can't get a hot dog. You can't get some nachos and then watch the DIY punk band on stage. I'm like, why not? I mean, there's probably people who would appreciate that.

So my yea or nay question for you, Ian, is eating at shows, yay or nay? And I'll say for me, I guess it's a nay because I don't do it, but I'm going to nay my own nay because I don't think my aversion to it makes any sense. It's something that must have been conditioned into me at some point. And I'm wondering, maybe I should start eating at shows because I, you know, like you went to go see the cure and they're playing for three hours. I mean, you're going to want a snack in the middle there. But again, you're going to go up to the stand and order nachos, like, while they're playing disintegration. It seems in Congress to me, but it shouldn't be. Is this just

something for me? Am I, like, weird with this? Like, what is your take? Yeah, or nay, eating at concerts. Yeah, I'm like, not here. I'm, like, being very careful not to be, like, critical or judgmental of like you're a dietitian yeah you're you're a dietitian i understand that but like but in general like i think the difference between a movie and a uh you know a baseball game and a concert is that you know with with the cure like you're seated like at those two but like movies and baseball games like they are they're much more passive like you're watching something as opposed to dancing or participating in it to a degree so it makes more sense to you know, be, like, be seated.

You're just in taking this. It's, like, not all that dissimilar from, like, watching TV. But, you know, at most concerts, I think about the fact that I'm standing or that I'm sweaty or that, like, I'm, like, surrounded by other people. And if I'm, you know, if I want to, like, enjoy, you know, like a hot dog or nachos or whatever, like, I don't know. I guess that does kind of break the spell, you know, that you're trying to, you know, engage with at a show.

And also, like, you mentioned about, like, how at the DIY show or even at the club, they never have food, like me, I can't go three hours without eating. So, like, I'll smuggle in a cliff bar or something like that just because I'm a complete fucking wimp. And if I'm like two and a half hours into the show and I'm like, haven't eaten, I get real whiny. But I just can't fathom why your average, like, 200, 300 cap room, like doesn't have like a convenience store. type option where you can get like a banana or like a cliff bar like you know I can think of so many shows where you know halfway into the open halfway into like you know the third out of five acts I would like definitely pay like a $200 upsell or not like a 200% upsell for a cliff bar like I would pay five bucks for a cliff bar no fucking questions asked that would be a much better way

to like make money as opposed to like taking a cut of the merch you know what I mean well yeah I mean, let's say you're at the turnstile show and you're like, I want to get a plastic helmet, like, filled with like a banana split, you know? Like, why can't you do that? It's like, they have all this alcohol there. Like, why not be like, hey, I'm going to go, I don't like this song. I'm going to go get a brat. I'll be right back. Yeah, you could get a cowboy dog, like something called a cowboy dog at The Cure Show.

And this is because, like, at those shows, you're at like a stadium that only sells stadium food. So, okay, so I'm giving this a nay based on my previous behavior. but I'm going to give it a yay because I think it actually should be more of a thing, eating at shows. Like, how do you feel about it? Like, what's your yay or nay? I think there's just like a lot of,

there's just like a lot of potential for, like, a better food experience. Like, in between, like, paying $15 for the Supreme Nachos that you can listen to while, like, Robert Smith sings 100 years. And the, you know, doing the thing where you like hope to God they don't patch it down and take your quest bar that's been

like melted in the car. Like I feel so guilty, you know, advocating for venues to rip off people who come to a show more than they already do. But like don't touch the merch. Don't touch like the ticket sales. Like please just like sell a tiny ass thing of trail mix for $10. This is win-win. People get food. they want and more to the point like you make a dollar off this like airport style like this airport style extortionate fees

or just yeah plug in a popcorn machine man get some popcorn sell some peanuts some cracker jacks all that stuff like bagel bites hot pockets man like do you know how much money you could you get at the fucking DIY emo show if you had

bagel bites oh my god it'd be amazing so you ever gave a yay or nay on this? What's your yay or nay? You give me to a niac. Yeah, I'm like, yay on whatever people need to like, you know, feel good. But if you're eating like chili cheese fries like next to me during the Kyrs show, that's a nay. So this is our first all yay or nay episode. I think it went well. I'm going to give this a yay on this format. We'll see if we do it again. We'll see what our listeners think. But thank you for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're

looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.