Indiecast - Our Predictions For 2024

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Steven and Ian have not recorded an episode in three weeks. Can you believe it? So there was a lot to talk about in the latest installment of Indiecast, starting with what the guys did over the holiday break. Ian won a ton of money playing fantasy football and Steven watched Paul Giamatti go full-Giamatti in The Holdovers (5:13). Once they were caught up with holiday talk, the guys paid tribute to Best Buy no longer selling CDs, finally, starting this year. They also did a "Bad Discourse Lightning Round" for all the bad discourse they missed online during the break. Topics include shoegaze music, The Smiths, and the possible wokeness of Green Day. Trust us — the discourse is very, very bad! (13:03)After that, they get into the business of soothsaying as they lay out their predictions for 2024 (34:08). While the guys kept their prognostications secret from each other, there ended up being some crossover as they talked about potential new albums from Haim and Vampire Weekend dominating the year, the possibility that [CANCELED BAND X] might make a comeback, and whether that long-delayed Sky Ferreira record will finally see the light of day this year. (Spoiler alert: Don't get your hopes up.)New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 170 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On the show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we offer our predictions for 2024. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He spent the holiday break keeping track of all the bad discourse online. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? Yeah, there was a real NFL week 18, 9.

college football playoff bowl energy to the last couple of weeks between Christmas and New years. Like all the major players are sitting out. Discourse at this time of year is just for like the sickos only. It's for the people who are like actually going to watch the Ravens when Lamar Jackson sits. I think I think you're underselling just how bad the discourse really was over the past couple of weeks. And I'm almost excited to like hash that stuff out rather than like, I don't know, be hopeful about the year ahead. Well, yeah, we're going to do a lightning round here in a minute of topics that came up while we were gone in the online world. Yeah, a lot of anger happening.

And you really realize that, you know, people, they're trapped with their families, and they're using social media as like a pressure valve, you know, and it's like, I can't deal with the dysfunction of my, family life, you know, there are unspoken things with my dad that I don't want to address or my mother, she's criticizing me, I don't know what to say. So I'm going to go online and I'm going to unload about the Smiths or shoegaze music or whatever. So yeah, we're going to get into that here in a minute. But I'm just wondering, you know, because we have not recorded an episode for three weeks. Like we only missed one week

of episodes. We didn't post anything last week, but we banked a bunch of stuff in mid-December. So I haven't, like, we've DMed, but we have not spoken for the better part of a month. How are you? Like, how was your holiday? Like, what, anything notable happened? Well, you gave me a little bit of shit for not consulting you about the, uh, the Packers wide receiver room. Um, but, you know, I think the biggest thing that happened to me is anyone

saw who follows me online. that yeah I won my fantasy football league we're going to go sportscast we're going to like talk about the most boring shit imaginable fantasy sports cast this is like even beyond sports cast now we're talking about fantasy sports cast and yeah you have a bunch of packers on your fantasy team and you were trying to figure out whether to start Romeo Dobbs or uh jaden read and jane read won me 1500 bucks so i'm like the biggest packers fan on this podcast for like you know the next 20 years And for the record, if you had consulted me rather than doing the cattle call online, because again, I'm a Packer fan, you could have just reached out to me directly, but whatever. I would have said Jayden Reed, because he is the best rookie receiver. It's the best rookie receiver year in Packer history, I think since Sterling Sharp.

I think I saw that online. Sterling Sharp, Packer great. Antonio Freeman, Brother of Don Beebe. Brother Shannon. Yeah, let's remember some Packers, wide receivers. Sterling Sharp, though, is probably the best, because the Packers are known for having system receivers. You know, you get like Jordy Nelson in there and he ends up being good because he's got Aaron Rogers throwing to him. But, you know, Sterling Sharp is like one of the sort of genuinely great receivers that they've had.

Jaden Reed looks like he's coming to that place. How much did you win in your fantasy? $1,500. Jesus Christ, that's a lot. I know. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, I mean, just imagine how far that money can stretch. Of course, like a good chunk of that was spent like paying off all the other leagues that I've been in.

But not that, it's so far. How many leagues are you in? I'm in three. One is like, yeah, one is with my friends in San Diego. One is with my brother's friends at Penn State and others with largely a bunch of previous pitchfork writers I did not do as well in that one. Texans is the reason finished like six in that. league. What about you? Are you in any? I used to be and then I quit because I just felt like it was too distracting. I didn't want to have my allegiances divided based on who was on my fantasy team. I also

often forgot to update my lineup every week. I was that guy that everyone hates in the league. So I bailed on fantasy sports at least five years ago. So I don't do that anymore. I don't gamble either. I just watch the games. I am a pure sports fan. Yeah, just a guy. I've got nothing personally invested, no money or anything. I just watch the games. Pivoting from Fantasy Sportscast here to go into movie cast,

I know you saw the holdovers. Great movie. I saw the holdovers too. Or I should say I saw the holdovers as well. There's not a holdovers too yet. Hopefully there will be. We'll see what happens. to Giamati after he

No spoilers those spoilers I know I almost said something I was to say after the events of this film Yes You know I was talking about this movie with a friend of mine And I was speculating on The leverage that Paul Giamatti

Had while he was Negotiating his contract for this film Because You got an Alexander Payne movie About a curmudgeon With a sensitive side Who else are you going to cast

other than Paul Giamatti? Who even is close to that lane right now? I mean, this movie, even by Giamati standards, he is Giamatiing the hell out of this movie. I'm saying this as a compliment. I think he's great.

He's getting Oscar buzz for this performance. He's going to be my sentimental favorite as we enter award season. But I just feel like there's no way you could have made this movie without Giamatti. No. Is there a poor man's Giamati right now?

Like, who would be the poor man's Giamati? I was actually trying to, like, look up, like, looks like Giamati or poor man's Giamati. And the only thing that came up is this screen ran article where it says, Jim Carrey mistaken for Paul Giamati and hilarious Google search glitch. Okay. So, yeah, basically the answer is no. Yeah, I mean, you know, baby Philipsy Moore Hoffman, if he were still with us. He wouldn't be a poor man's Giamati.

He'd be something else. but I feel like there's, it's a little bit different vibe with Hoffman. He's more intense. Like, Giamatti is like... You does phone commercials. Like, you got to kind of have that, like, going for you. You know, I don't think Philip Seymour Hoffman would ever do that, even if he did make it to 2024.

Yeah, he's got that intense theater guy energy. Giamati is more of like, he's like the human form of, like, a resigned sigh. Like, if you were looking for... for the human form of someone who's just kind of slumped in their chair and breathing heavily. Like, that would be Paul Giamatti. That's his energy. And he's just peak Giamatti in this movie. It's like, I feel like it's going to be his defining role.

It used to be sideways. Maybe you could say, if you're a billions fan, Chuck Rhodes. But I don't know. I love the holdovers. I don't feel like I've seen enough movies to say it's my favorite of the year, but it's definitely my favorite of the movies I've seen. Either that or like Oppenheimer. I love Oppenheimer. But, yeah, I don't know. Are we endorsing the holdovers here on Indycast?

Absolutely. And also, I can't believe you didn't mention Paul Giomadi's role as Jerry Heller and straight out of Compton. Mm. Exactly. That's another one. Yeah, definitely not a curmudgeonly type, too. Jerry Heller has a very different energy than the guy in holdovers or billions. But nonetheless, Paul Gehom-I, I think Paul Diomani would listen to Indycast. Yeah, I could see that. Maybe he's listening right now and feeling,

he's like softly chuckling to himself in like a melancholy kind of way, listening to the show while smoking a pipe and... Tweed jacket, yeah. Tweed jacket in a room by himself, but he's okay being by himself. He feels content in his own skin. Before we get into the lightning round of terrible discourse,

I feel like we have to do a little in-memory, segment here for Best Buy selling physical media. Like this was reported this week. Best Buy, and I'm kind of shocked that they were still selling CDs and DVDs and Blu-rays, but they officially announced that they are no longer selling physical media. And I feel like you and I have to at least briefly make note of this, because you and I, we're part of the generation that went to Best Buy. in the early odds during that sort of post-strokes era where major labels were signing guitar bands.

And it's like we're going to launch the career of this guitar band by marketing a budget-price CD at Best Buy. 799. You can get the strangest things by a long wave. You can get logical break your heart by the stills. I thought immediately of buying Day I, forgot by Pete Yorne at Best Buy. Basically, like, any 2003 CD, I just immediately associate with Best Buy. I don't know if you have any Best Buy memories that you want to share.

Absolutely. I mean, I think the ultimate is De Laos and the Comatorium by Mars Volta. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that, the choral self-titled album from 2003 and also the Vines highly evolved. Like, those are, those are like the Sergeant Patterson. and, you know, the pet sounds of Best Buy core. And I recall them being $6.99. I'll never forget getting the Best Buy circular in the mail.

I still live with my folks at that time. And just, like, mowing the lawn, listening to, you know, like the first song of Mars Volta's D-Las in the Cometorium and trying to convince myself I actually like this. Yeah, just a real exciting time for lost leaders in the music industry. Yeah. Shout out to Kaiser Chiefs. Oh, God, yeah, I predict a riot. That's all I'm fucking wish, man.

I don't remember the rest of that album at all, but I remember I predict a riot. I think they had some stupid-ass hats on, or maybe I'm confusing him with Maximo Park. Yeah, my memory of the video is of the lead singer leaping up in the air on. That's pretty, that I was about saying. The one thing I remember is that he jumped a lot.

Yeah, that was his thing. Yeah, you know, with future heads, would they be in this camp? They were, I don't think they were quite on that. Like, I didn't see them at Best Buy. First off, that record fucking rules, the first Futureheads album. Best Kate Bush cover I've probably ever heard. Yeah, I think that they're a little too edgy, but, like, Maximo Park was also too edgy.

Kaiser Chiefs, the Coral, like, that's the stuff that really hits that end cap right there. It had to be on, like, a major label, not like V2. or like, I don't know, some of those other quasi major labels that were around back then. What about hot heat? Make up the breakdown. Oh, yeah, but that's subpop. That's technically, no, their album elevator,

that's the one that would be advanced by. Right, okay, because subpop, I mean, they were blowing up at this time, though. I mean, this is the beginning of, you know, like we've got the postal service, I guess, band of horses. Yeah, yeah, the ship. but yeah, Banda Horse is a little more further down the road, I guess.

But yeah, man, Best Buy, you know? Look, I haven't bought a CD there in a very long time, but many happy memories of Best Buy and the Oats. So in Memorium, the CD and DVD section. Yeah, like, Bub Get Free as loud as humanly possible and the moment you get done with our podcast today. You know, get born by the Jets, by the Jets, by Jets. By Jet, get born.

Are you going to be my girl? Yes, best by rock. Okay, let's get to the terrible discourse lightning round. Now, like I said earlier, Ian and I, we haven't recorded for three weeks. So we missed a lot of discourse going on online, but we're observing it the whole time. There were certain topics that came up. And I just couldn't wait to get back to the show. There were so many trends waiting to be hash.

some of these trends are a little cold at this point, but it's okay. This is a cold time of the year. We need stuff to talk about. So let's do a lightning round here. Topic number one, shoe gaze was a big topic over the break. I suppose this is related to the Eli Ennis story that was published by Stereo Gum right before Christmas. Eli is a great journalist.

He's a co-host of the other indie rock podcast out there, which, Are we allowed to say their name? Do we want to acknowledge them officially? Yeah, in 2020, in 2024, we're showing more love. So, yeah, endless scroll. Okay. Yeah, especially the episodes where I'm on it. Yeah, just say, we're just going to say the name once, though.

We're not going to say it more than that. After that, you have to start paying us to mention your show. But, yeah, the other indie rock podcast, Eli's a co-host of it, he wrote this great piece really diving deep into the modern shoegays scene and how it's being shaped by TikTok. And you have all these younger people getting into bands from the 90s and the aughts through TikTok. And we've talked about Duster already on the show, Duster being this band that in the 90s wasn't really that popular, was considered maybe like a B or C level Shugays band.

And they've really blown up, you know, like 20 years later, younger people have really elevated them as being the Shugays band. more popular than My Bloody Valentine or Slow Dive or Ride or the bands that really define the genre in the 90s. And correct me if I'm wrong, because, you know, I didn't pay super close attention to the debate going on about shoe gaze, but it seemed like the core issue was that there are older people who are upset that bands that weren't even considered shoe gays back in the day have now. been sort of lumped under this umbrella to the point now where it seems like shoe gaze is almost like a catch-all term for old alternative music. You know, like if you're a guitar band from a certain era, you're going to be labeled shoe gaze. And that seems to be a point of contention

with the 48-year-old indie rock fans out there. Am I classifying this correctly? I mean, is that or am I missing something with that? Well, I think the fact that, you first and foremost described Duster as a shoegaze band gets to the core of it. I mean, they were considered a slow core band, but slow core and shoegays are kind of in this catch-all of guitar music that's like vaguely 90s sent it. And I think Eli made a great point in the piece where TikTok, shoegaze or whatever variation of it is like there's slow core in there, but there's also like deaf tones and maybe some of it sounds like hum or third eye blind.

It's in the same way that like emo became a catch-off or stuff that sounded like pop punk. And yeah, I mean, I get it in that, you know, I get in that like people like to Gabe Keep and be, you know, very nerdy about like subgenres. But I mean, this, this is pretty similar to the conversations I've seen about like we got it like when machine gun Kelly became pop punk. like people are out there trying to defend the integrity of the genre. I totally understand that with like, you know, certain forms of punk music and hip hop where these speak to like legitimate subcultures with some kind of sociopolitical valence to it. But, I mean, Shoegaze is like a message board in 2023. I mean, I don't quite understand like what the problem is if we're not like honoring like

whatever the four elements of shoe. Is it four elements of hip hop or five? I can't remember. B-boying is definitely an element of Shugays, though. We cannot deny that. Right. It is now. The kids have made it an element now.

You can't stop them. They're just putting everything into it. Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing with Shugays, we've talked about this in relation to Duster, is that I do find a fascinating how younger generations rewrite music history and how that can be really strange once you reach an age where you have more perspective and you see your own musical past being. rewritten by people who weren't even born at the time.

And it makes me think about how you sometimes see older people get really upset that like Steely Dan has caught on with younger people because this older music fan was like, I loved the sex pistols in the 70s and Steely Dan was lame. So for you to say that Asia is better than Nevermind the Bullocks is crazy to me. You know, that's something that people my age have done to, you know, boomers essentially. And now we're seeing it with, I guess, Gen Z and millennials and Gen Xers.

Now we're having our musical past rewritten, and it's very upsetting. And it's also something you cannot stop. Like, this is something that's going to happen. And I think it's, again, it's just generally true that as you get further away from a decade, that the distinctions between bands that were at one point important, it just gets blurred and everything gets put into the same bucket.

It's the same reason why you listen to classic rock radio and like the chili peppers are being played on the same station as like Led Zeppelin. You know, it's like if you're of a certain age, that stuff is basically the same. Even though if you came up with those things were new, you would say, well, they're nothing alike. Why would you put them in the same bucket? So I know, I'm just always fascinated by how these things evolve.

Yeah. People are mad about shoegaze, but I think in reality they're mad about TikTok, just kind of destroying this time space continuum where not like, it used to be there was a pretty linear narrative of each year, but now like bands from 2013 can blow up 10 years later. And by the way, like when you said Asia, I thought you were talking about the heat of the moment band, which I don't know,

they've had some jams too, perhaps more so than sex pistols if we're being. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, we might have to add that take to the lightning. round here at the end. Let's get to our next bad discourse topic, and I don't know how this came up, but I saw a lot of people, for whatever reason,

arguing about the Smiths, and there was this meme basically saying, the Smiths suck. And I don't know how this came up. I don't know if people watched The Killer on Netflix. You know, they finally caught up with the new Fincher movie, and, you know, there's a lot of Smith songs in that film. I don't know if that provoked it, or if there was just some, like, random 21-year-old out there who decided to tweet about this, and now we have another generation of 21-year-olds who are arguing about the Smiths and whether

they're any good? I think you and I are on the same page on this. You like the Smiths, right? Yeah, I like the Smiths, and I'm not going to, like, you know, stump for them unless I see, like, some bad discourse, because, I mean, when you're saying, like, yo, the Smiths suck. I mean, what does that even mean? Because for the most part, people who get into the Smiths do in high school, you know, they're like a real formative band where you can realize, oh, I can be clever and miserable at the same time. I've never considered something like this before. Like, and also I feel like this isn't new information that Morrissey's an asshole.

I feel like people have done a pretty good job of separating the art from the artist for like the past 30 years in a way that like I don't think people have done with, say, like, Marquis Smith in the fall. I just don't quite understand, like, who this is directed towards. And to the point where it's, like, I mean, I don't know if this is true anymore. Like, I mean, I live in Southern California, and, like, Morrissey and the Smiths are just such an enormous part of the culture down here. Like, I wonder if saying the Smith suck is, like, kind of bordering on, like, problematic in its own way.

Like, no, Morrissey's problematic, but is, like, saying the Smith suck also, like, kind of weird. Well, just because of the big Mexican following that he has in that part of the country? Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, like, I think that were people saying, like, yeah, Morrissey's got some bad views.

I don't think that takes away from, like, the music they made before. It's like, I'm not going to say, like, yeah, fuck Astral Weeks because, you know, Van Morrison spent the past five years making anti-Vax songs. I think it's possible to, like, understand the importance of the Smiths

without, like, saying, oh, they always sucked. I think that's... I think the weirdest take is that one I've seen about, like, how... Oh, it's really Johnny Marr in the rhythm section. Like, that was really what was going on

with the Smiths. As if you could, like, somehow erase Morrissey from the Smiths. That's like saying, you know, to take away, like, Robert Smith from the cure. Like, Morrissey is the thing. You know, the guys were supporting players, but yeah. Right.

Johnny Marr wrote great music, but, like, Morrissey... And his overwhelming Morrisiness, like that is the defining characteristic of the Smiths. I mean, your Van Morrison comparison, I think, is that because I think of Morrissey and Van Morrison, both just being classic grumpy people, and they just direct their grumpiness at different topics as the years unfold, which in a way makes it easier for me to dismiss anything that they say. because it's like, oh, Van Morrison is upset about COVID shutdowns. Well, yeah, of course he's upset about that.

He was upset about Bruce Springsteen and supposedly ripping him off in the 70s. And then he was upset that people, you know, didn't give him his proper respect here and yada, yada, yada. He's like perpetually upset. So the specifics of what he's upset about just always seems less relevant to me. Van Morrison's very upset that Best Buy is stopping selling CDs. I bet. I bet. You could buy hymns to the silence back then and a cassette at a good price.

It is interesting to kind of piggyback on the conversation about shoegaze that the standing of the Smiths has really taken a fall in the last 20 years. This is another instance of music history being rewritten a bit because I remember, you know, like early odds, like when like Spin Magazine or even Pitchfork would do like the best albums of like the last 25 years, the Queen is Dead was like always in the top 10. Like that was considered like a canonical record. And I think it still is. But I feel like they've really taken a tumble while the cure have have ascended. I mean, there was a period of time where the cure was looked at as like this sort of embarrassing, like, juvenile type band and the Smiths were the more serious 80s, you know, indie pop band. And it's just been interesting to see that get flip-flopped. And, you know, I think rightly so to a degree, at least in terms of the cure.

I mean, I think cure obviously is a great band. We've talked about that on the show. But that's another instance of just seeing how these things evolve over time. And I'm curious, maybe the Smiths, I don't know if there's ever going to be a chance for them to get a bump. I don't know. We'll see. I would think the killers, I think the killer of the movie would have been that. Right, exactly.

And that movie didn't really do anything. Yeah, I think the killer would have been it. But also, we have to consider the fact that, like, Robert Smith spent the past 30 years being, like, a publicly good guy. And Morrissey's done the opposite. It's been a real goofus and gallant thing. Yeah. Let's get to our next point here. And this is maybe my favorite terrible discourse that emerged in the last couple weeks.

And that is, has Green Day gone woke? This is something that came out this week because Green Day, they were on Dick Clark's New Year's Rock and Eve. Which we all saw. Which we all watched. And they played American Idiot. And I think they played Holiday. Presumably because it's the 20th anniversary of American Idiot. I know Green Day has a new album coming out later this month.

I assume we're going to be talking about that. But they didn't play new stuff, at least from what I've seen. But they played American Idiot. And Billy Joe Armstrong, he included a reference to the mega agenda. Like, I think he said something like, we're not going to go with the mega agenda. Yeah, he replaced the redneck with MAGA. With MAGA. So this is the type of thing where in a vacuum, like if we had just heard about this,

sands, any other context, I probably would have made fun of Green Day for including a MAGA reference while playing on New Year's Rock and Eve, just because it seems like the kind of thing that, like, Green Day would do to appeal to the middle-aged punk fan out there who's also just like mainlining MSNBC all day long, you know, just obsessing about Donald Trump and they're going to hear Green Day do this and they're going to be like, yeah, right on, man. Sticking it to the man, punk still matters. However, what happened is that, of course, right-wing people got upset about this for whatever reason and they went on the whole old thing about like, why are you inserting politics

into punk rock? And my favorite, which is it's actually more punk. to be a Trump fan, which you see that coming up as well. So, I don't know, this story, it just has all the elements of things that I hate slash love revolving around middle-aged punk people arguing about what's really punk. Like that conversation, like the Smith's, you know, it's just like a deathless conversation. You know someone in the world is always having this argument probably on Facebook. you know, going on.

So, I don't, do you have, do you have an opinion? Like, are you upset that Green Day has injected politics into punk rock? Well, yeah, because look where American Idiot got us last time, you know? Like, people were talking about, like, oh, yeah, they really, they really, like, toppled whatever hegemony was happening in 2004. It's like, no, I remember 2004 very distinctly. That was a very shitty time for political, punk or indie music. I mean, look, I love me some bright eyes, but when

The president talks to the guy is a fucking terrible song. And I think even Connor Overse would admit that. But yeah, this is, this was, I, I'm like almost, I'm like almost ready to say that this thing is actually like an astro-turfed controversy by Green Day's PR team because their last couple hours of it and like super duper memory hold. I only remember about the last one. They had that billboard where it said like, no Swedish DJs, no EDM drops. And I mean, I think that Green Day is just really embodying that. 45-year-old or 48-year-old or even older, like, punk guy who still maybe listens to, like, anti-flag or something like that.

Right. Or maybe they just want to remind people of the fact they made American idiot. So, I don't know. I mean, if we weren't recording today, there's a good chance I wouldn't even know that this thing happened. But it's still pretty funny. It's still pretty funny because it sets up potentially one of my predictions for 2024. for. I would have liked it more if he put MAGA into Longview.

Instead of saying masturbation, he could say MAGA. Magination or something like that. Come on, Billy, Joe. We're coming up with fucking gold here. When Mega Nations lost it's fine. That day. Let's get to our mailbag segment here. And this is pertinent related to something you just talked about memory hold with Green Day,

their last couple albums being memory hold, because we got a lot of letters about the memory hold segment of the Indycasties. There was some controversy there. And I just pulled one of the letters. This came from Matt in Melbourne, and I'll read this one. He writes, hey gang, listen to the Food Fighters win the Indycassies Award for Most Memory Hold album of 2023. And remember that Blur also released an album in 2023. I love Blur, but I didn't listen to it. Did anyone else at either of you Was it even memory hold or just hold entirely? Just hold. I like that.

So yeah, he brought up the Blur album. I heard people bring that up. Why don't you talk about that? I also, there were people bringing up the Smashing Pumpkins album. I heard that many times. How many songs did that have? Like 44? I want to say like 33.

It was definitely anywhere between 30 and 50. Right. And that's the album that they released like track by. track via a podcast episode too. It was very convoluted. So Matt is wondering about the Blur album why we didn't talk about that. The Smashy Pumpkins album also came up. Did you hear any complaints for people bringing up memory hold albums that we didn't talk about in the Indycastes? I mean, I think they brought up the Smashing Pumpkins album. More people probably did that than did that in your mailbag than mine. But, you know, in regards to the Blur album, I think in

the, and this is true worldwide, not just in the United States, but Blur is kind of seen as a guerrilla side project at this point. Relative to its expectations, I think the guerrillas album was more memory hold. But what I really appreciate, I did listen to the Blur album and, you know, I saw some conversation about it, people saying, you know, it was their best album since 13. But what I appreciate is that no one tried to say it's as good as 13 in that like same way that people might have said, oh, it's their best since automatic for the people or they're best since Octum Baby. I'm partial to think tank, which is a great bad album.

I think you've written about that before. I like The Narcissist. That's a good song. I saw it pop up on a few of like, you know, the year-end list like mojo or like the print-only ones. I don't know if you can come up with a better outcome for a 20-23 blur album than that. But, you know, with Smashing Pumpkins, I don't think that's memory hole because you have to have expectations that it won't get memory hold. And I have no idea who's like legitimately checking for a Smashing Pumpkins album, whether it's 12 songs or 33. I know people who take new Weezer album releases more seriously.

You know, it's like, you might say like, oh, how can a, how can a Smashing Pumpkins album disappear into thin air? Did you know there was like a new Guns and Roses song released last month? Yeah. Well, there was, there's been a couple, I guess, released. Yeah. You don't hear anything about them, you know? Right, exactly. Do I agree with that? And I agree, too, about the point about Blur being a guerrilla's side project at this point. And we talked about the guerrillas album itself being memory-holded because it just felt like that just came and went. I don't know.

I mean, all these bands are still big touring acts. You know, I mean, we're talking about bands that have reached the point in their career, like where a new album doesn't really matter in terms of, like, their overall career. So yeah, I'm still good with our pick With the Food Fighters record because that was a record That did have a moment And we both wrote about that record And it got really good reviews And then you looked at year-end list

And it was nowhere to be found Not even Rolling Stone put it on their list So yeah I think we got it right But again we appreciate people being passionate About the indie cast These people having debates out there you know, taken to the streets, you know, maybe throwing a garbage can through a window

because they didn't like that blur was not mentioned in the memory old album segment. They listened to the woke Green Day and decided to stick it to the man or whatever by throwing a trash can through a Best Buy and finding out there are no more CDs there anymore. All right, let's get to the predictions for 2024 segment of this episode. Ian and I, we have been looking into our crystal balls, our respective charts, mapping out the year ahead, figuring out what is going to pop, what is not going to pop. I made four predictions. Did you also make four predictions? I've got four predictions.

Okay. And we have not shown each other our predictions, although if we are truly clairvoyant, we should be able to guess what the other person predicted. but let's get into it here. Before we get started, do you feel good about your predictions? Do you feel like you're shooting in the dark? Or do you feel like these are good, educated guesses for what's going to happen in the indie world for the next 12 months? I feel like the first two have some basis in reality and they kind of devolve into pure speculation from there. I do want to point out, though, that when we do this, no deaths, no cancellations.

Like, we don't want to wish that upon the world. Yeah, you know, we didn't make that distinction as we were making our predictions. You added that to the outline this morning, but I'm glad you did it. I didn't predict anyone dying or anyone getting canceled. But yeah, that's a good provision to have just in general. We want to keep this positive, or at least death-related. So why don't you go first? what is your first prediction for 2024?

All right. So I want to give a shout to Grant Sharples, you know, our uprocks colleague. They made a really good, 2024 predictions post where one of the things they brought up was like Lizzo making a comeback with the song called Flaws or something like that, which is so realistic that I thought that actually happened.

But I'm going to kind of go in a similar route where I predict 2024 will see the earnest arcade fire comeback. So I think it's already happening because I saw them, they were on the Something in the Water Festival and I think they're playing a pretty big role in shaky knees in Atlanta. We got the 20th year anniversary of funeral coming up. And so I'm kind of jumping the gun on an album because they've never taken just two years to make a record.

If it hard it is to believe they really put it. out an album 2022. Like that happened for real. And so I'm thinking that like I don't predict an album coming back,

but what I do predict is a single like maybe just kind of raw. I mean, the funny thing is that they were to make an earnest comeback record. It would sound exactly like we. But what I predict for this

is like a New Yorker or like a vulture article interview with like Win Butler where he like really lays it all out. And so people maybe get to see them as more of a flawed human than like an enormous hypocrite. But yeah, I think the timing, like we're seeing it's kind of soft launched already. I don't know if people really are desiring that, but I'm thinking it's going to happen regardless.

See, I think this is a good prediction. I don't think it's going to require a new album or single. I actually think that the wiser route is to do an anniversary tour for funeral. Don't do any interviews, but strategically place videos of the live performances. Remind people, oh, this is a good live band. Maybe put them on TikTok. We're just going to give TikTok credit for everything. This is the aging music critic move, du jour.

But I think really lead on nostalgia. and really lean on like their history and hope that there's a younger audience that doesn't know about the recent developments and just loves funeral and they're like oh this is have you heard this record like this is an amazing band they're called arcade fire you know we're discovering them for the first time i could see that happening i could also see a possibility of like somehow a sought like a deep cut from everything now getting big on TikTok, just completely upending the arcade fire narrative in the same way that like harnished your hopes became the definitive pavement song.

That's probably more realistic for like, for an arcade fire comeback than what I have planned, but I'm still kind of stuck in my old ways. All right. Well, for my first prediction, I'm going to say, Sky Ferreira, masochism.

will not come out this year. I'm going to say, it's going to be another year. Well, do you, I mean, look, okay, I always think about, like, the pitchfork profile of Sky Ferreira that was going to launch masochism. Is that, like, five years ago now?

Are we reaching, like, the five year? I'm going to Google this quickly to see when that came out. I mean, obviously, that's no fault of pitchforks that this album has been delayed. But I just think about that interview Sky Ferreira returns, yeah, March 26th, 2019. So we're going to be able to do a fifth anniversary think piece

about this think piece this year, the Sky Ferreira return. So yeah, I don't know. I'm going to say that album is not coming out this year. And that makes me sad. I do want to hear this record. I love her last record, night time, my time, from 2013.

great album. It seems like she's still doing with maybe some record label stuff. I don't know. Like that's what she is intimated in the past. But yeah, I'm going to say it's not coming out this year. What do you think? Well, you just also reminded me in like longest lag time between pitchfork profile and like a album that didn't happen.

It's still been, I think we're headed on 10 years since I did that Johnny Jewel interview and we still haven't seen the chromatics come back with Dear Tommy. Like, God, I put so much fucking work into that piece. It was actually really awesome. But yeah. Come on Johnny Jewel. Ian bust his ass for this profile. Put out your goddamn record.

Yeah. Stop sitting on that. Actually, I was about saying stop sitting on that drive money, but they did not do drive. But yeah, I think with Sky Ferre, like, from what I've heard of the live shows, they've just been like a mess but like memorable messes and I don't know I think that I don't think this record is going to come out I think it didn't it get like kind of leaked last year or something like that I remember hearing people saying that they like heard some version of it um yeah so I don't so you don't think it's ever going to come out or just not this year I don't think

it's ever going to come out oh I think it'll come out eventually We shall see. I mean, you know, like Dr. Dre eventually, well, did he drop detox? No, he didn't put out detox. He put out Compton, yeah. So I think we're going to get, I think if we do get a Sky Ferreira thing, it's going to be like her version of Compton. Her Compton. Okay, we'll see.

But for now I'm going to say it's not coming out this year. That's my first prediction. My Compton would be a very good Sky Ferreira song title. It would be good. All right. Next prediction. What do you got? All right.

So, you know, thanks to see. We can, you know, legitimately say we can predict an album of the year by January 4th, which is when we're recording today. So unlike last year, though, I don't think the album of the year for 2024 has already been released. But I do have a vision of what that will be. So for the past couple of years, we've basically said that, you know, it's Rihanna's to lose. If, like, Rihanna shows up and drops literally anything, that would be the album of the year to beat. they could still put something out. I don't think they will.

But I'm going to pick a, I'm going to go a slightly different route in that the 2024 album of the year race, it is Joanna Newsom's to lose. And not only that, but if they do put something out, I'm not going to predict a 10 from pitchfork, but I'm going to predict a 9.5 or higher.

It's been a few years since they've really, like, busted out the fine China for that. But I think Joanna Newsom is, in a space right now, a very enviable space where it's someone who's like seriously beloved by critics of all ages. But they're not so much taken for granted,

but just sort of not really thought about because it's been nine years, I think, since Joanna Newsom's last album. Right. I think that... Divers. Divers was 2015. I interviewed her for that record. And that's a great record.

And she was delightful to speak with. But yeah, she's been off the radar now for almost a decade. Yeah, and I feel like there's some stuff bubbling up. I think there's just like some energy in the air where people are like ready to go all in on, you know, Joanna Newsom. Which, hell, I'm interested in seeing that. But yeah, I think that I'm predicting that that's if a Joanna Newsom album drops, like, I don't care like how good it is or how not good. I mean, look, the track record speaks for itself.

But, yeah, we're going to see, like, if not a Fiona Apple type situation, something damn near close to it. So I'm going to, because I have an album of the year prediction as well. And I, so I'm going to bump, I was going to talk about that a little bit later, but I'll make that my second prediction. I like the Joanna Newsom prediction, but I'm going to say that if I had to guess right now, what will be the critical consensus album of the year? I'm going to go with the new Haim record, which hasn't been announced, but it's been reported that they're working on,

and there seems to be an expectation that they're going to put out a record this year. And I just feel like they're in a position now. This would be their fourth studio record, I believe. Yes. It'd be their fourth. And it just seems like they're in that, it's weird to talk about Haim like this, but they are like in the elder stateswoman role now.

I mean, they've been around now for over a decade. and you can see that there's this generation of artists that they have clearly influenced. It just feels like it's the fourth record. It feels like the potential summation record. It feels like the record where people are going to just be like, Hym, you help define this generation of indie music. Now you put out this presumably great record. So we want to give you all the flowers.

It just seems lined up for Hymne if they put out a good record this year that people are going to go crazy for it and not just reward the record, but in essence give them like a career achievement award for that album. It just feels like it's their time. So I'm going to say Hime would be, if I'm betting, I'm putting my money on them having the consensus critical favorite album of the year. That's an interesting call, and I think that, well, I'm not going to save

this one, I'm going to save that one, this prediction for last, but it is somewhat related to Hime. So, yeah, I'm going to hold off on that, but my, actually, my next prediction plays off yours quite nicely. So you mentioned Hime as being a generational sort of act that gets, gets another, like another bump in 2024. I think that Vampire Weekend is another band. Like, apparently the record's done. So they're coming back with a new record and it got me thinking about a lot of bands that haven't put out any new music since 2019, 2024. I know that the XX is working on a new album. It's been for some odd years since the last Heyman Pala album. A Slow Rush came out before COVID. And I do think that all of the aforementioned are going to put out a new record. But in the

same way that I predict that Joanna Newsom is we're going to get like a you know like a 9.5ish sort of album I'm predicting in 2024 we get a major flop album from somebody I don't know from who but I'm wondering if it's going to be

it's not going to be Vampire Weekend too many people like them I don't I think XX is too influential for people to really go against them I think that Tame and Paula runs the risk of that. Or, and I don't want this to happen, but like what would happen if a turnstile album turned out to be like a flop?

I don't think that, I don't know who it's going to be, but we're going to see like a major, I guess decade-defining flop from some major indie act. Like I'm thinking of like a centipede Hertz type of fair. Yeah, I think Tamapala is a good call there. And the slow rush, in a way, is a soft version of that. I think that record gets a pass because it came out right before the pandemic. So, you know, that certainly, I think, affected how that record was probably received.

But I feel like in the moment, people felt like, oh, this is a bit of a letdown after currents. But then it kind of got the rep of, like, well, it's a slow burn type record. You know, you're going to like it over time. And I think that is true. But yeah, they seem like, I don't know, because Kevin Parker, he has become a bit overexposed at this point, you know, working with other artists and just how influential his band has been. I could see people maybe having the knives out if he doesn't hit it out of the park with his next record. We're really feeding off each other's predictions here because you brought up Vampire Weekend. I have a Vampire Weekend prediction as well.

My prediction was, I think they passed the five albums test this year. I think their record will be their fifth. I expect it to be really good. Ezra Caning is way too deliberative of an artist and, you know, just taking care of everything to make a flop to me. I just feel like he's got unshakable taste. He knows what he's doing. and he's going to make a record that at least is very good and probably great. So I expect that record to be really good.

But since that's kind of similar to yours, I'm going to resuscitate a prediction I had on my list and then I crossed off. I'll put it back in since you already talked about Vampire Weekend. I predict that Jack Antonoff will post an Instagram about always and wanting to work with always. Ooh, that's a good one. And Molly Rankin won't reject it outright. She'll leave open the possibility. So I'm not saying the next Always album is going to have some Jack Ant.

I could see a situation like we're always as like, let's do what Mitzke did on, what's that record? Where she had like one single with Dan Wilson as the co-writer. Like let's dabble our toes in maybe making a pop song. so you have like one pop single on the next always record and it's co-written with Jack Antonoff. I think that maybe the ball goes in motion for that this year.

I could see that happen. I could see always being the next indie act to be Antonophanized, if that's a word. Antonov- Yeah, that's a very... That one's like so realistic. It's like almost not fun. You know? Like we're, we like to get into like speculation,

but like, again, this is sort of like the Lizzo song called Flaws in that it's so plausible. Like I'm like kind of shocked it didn't already actually happen. Right. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. But yeah, I feel like that's very plausible. Yeah. So, yeah, we'll see.

I mean, I don't want that to happen, but it could very easily happen, I think. Yeah, I thought that one's great. So for my last prediction, and I'm going to kind of pivot a bit as well because like the, the prediction I had with regards to Haim is that they're going to get like a Taylor Swift type bump that I don't think women in music part three got. I had a prediction in 2024 that it's that it's going to be a quiet Taylor Swift year. That's like kind of a general thing, but I don't really have enough to like describe what that actually means. I mean, anything is going to be quiet relative to 2023, but I think that they're going to take a real step back.

But as far as like my last prediction goes, like I feel like I wanted to be either like a Taylor Swift thing or a TikTok thing because like that was pretty much all anyone really talked about in 2023. Like it felt like our line of work was very reactive to trends. But I was trying to and boy, I'm like the wrong person to try to think about like what tick like what might pop on TikTok. You know, this year we saw a lot of shoegaze, a lot of slow. core, which would be the last things I would expect to happen on TikTok. And I tried to like speed run through ideas of like what 90s subgenres might have a comeback. You know, we've already done power pop. We've already done Alt Country.

We've done shoegaze. We've done SlowCore. And I fast forwarded about 15 years thinking about Noah Cahan, if that's how you pronounce his name. I don't know how to quantify this, but I do think we are going. going to see someone try to make a case for stomp, clap, ho, hey music in 2024. I'm not saying that like the luminaires or like of monsters and men or what have you are going to be seen as like a cool new influence. But I do think that is a very undervalued node of music just in terms of discourse.

Like I don't think that's the secret to like what's going to be popping in 2024. but I do think one way or the other, that style of music is going to be a part of the conversation that has to be taken seriously. Yeah, I like that prediction. I mean, because there is a generation of people who are maybe, say, 22 right now or 23, where seeing Mumford and Sons on the Grammys was probably a big deal, like when they were in middle school. So, yeah, I don't know if we're going to see

Clero cover the Luminaires or, you know, we'll have like some tiny desk concert or Boy Genius drops a Mumford and Sons cover. It does not seem implausible to me. You know, I could definitely say that happened. I thought you were going to say that you were going to predict a trip-hop revival. I think that's happened so many times already, though.

Yeah. It just seems like me. be like a fixed reference point that people go back to. But I did consider. I did consider that one until I realized like that's that's sort of like shoe gaze and that there's there might be like a bump where like people like we start talking about like massive attack like more than usual. But I feel like trip hop is always kind of there.

If we're being real, that's like a like constant true north for music critics. Right. Yeah. I mean, just going back to the Ho-Hay thing. I mean, you listen to someone like Zach Bryan, and it's like, okay, this guy clearly loves the head and the heart. Like, I wouldn't be shocked if he has all of their albums. So, yeah, there's definitely a strain of artists that could definitely be a thing for. For my last prediction, I'm going to go with a very, very obvious prediction, and in a way, maybe it's not fair that I predict this because I have a hand in deciding whether this is true or not.

But I'm just going to throw this out there. I fully expect that my personal album of the year will be the next M.J. Lenderman record. And that hasn't been announced either, but he's been open about, he's working on this record. It seems like he's almost done. I would expect it to be dropping sometime in 2024.

And I'm curious as to whether he will at some point overshadow Wednesday. Yeah, that was going to be one of my predictions. I'm wondering, like, I mean, I think that they both have their lanes and Wednesday is always going to be like a well-respected band. But MJ Lenderman in a way is, I think, more commercial in some respects. I think there's a lane for someone like him to really stand out. And I wonder how his career is going to evolve this year in relation to Wednesday.

And I could see him on his own being at least as big and maybe a bit bigger as a solo act. Yeah, I mean, that one seemed like that once again seemed so plausible and so likely to happen. I didn't actually think to put it in because also I figured that MJ was going to be in your territory. But yeah, I mean, you know, MJ Lenderman, he signed to anti. Yeah, the record's going to come out. It's, I think there's going to be a different sort of fanhood around MJ Lenderman. Like, one of the funnier things I remember discussing with Wednesday when I interviewed them back early last year was Carly from Wednesday talking about like how all the, at the end of a Wednesday show,

there'll just be like a bunch of dudes circling around MJ Lenderman talking about how awesome he is. And I think what you might see is, I don't know, like Wednesday's fan base like multiplied by a Japan droids type fan base. By the way, like, I thought it never dawned on me to protect the new Japan droids album in 2024. I don't think that's happening. But, yeah, it'll be very interesting to see what happens with that. But, yeah, I don't doubt for a fucking second that's going to be your number one album of the year. And that would be like me saying that, like, yeah, I predict Ian's number one out of the year is going to be Glass Beach.

You know, it's like, I do have a role in that. And I know that album fucking rules. but like, that's chalk right there. Yeah. Well, I had to go with one obvious one. So I'll do the one that I have control over. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We're going to skip Recommendation Corner this week.

We'll be back with it next week. Thank you all for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com, backslash. and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.