Indiecast - Phoebe Bridgers Returns! Tame Impala Has A Real Pop Hit! This Is Lorelei Signs Big!

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

This week's conversation begins with some recent discourse about whether rock is dead and whether it was killed by the CIA or liberal poptimists (2:34). The guys also briefly discuss the backlash against a "New York Times" video where the pop critics defended their recent greatest living American songwriters list (17:27). Then they look at a relatively light week for new releases, including albums by Kevin Morby, Rostam and Spencer Krug (22:41). After they pivot to news hinting at an apparent new Phoebe Bridgers album and her prospects for a comeback (29:03). They also discuss the recent Top 10 hit by Tame Impala from their critically panned 2025 album (39:27), and Nate Amos of This Is Lorelei signing to Matador (44:22). In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the electronic act Jump Scare and Steve talks about the L.A. band Gun Outfit (50:59).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Amazon Music. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest news of the week. We review albums, and we hash out trends. On this episode, we talk about the return of Phoebe Bridgers, Tame and Paula having a big pop hit, and this is Laurel I signing to Matador Records. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He's about to tell us who actually killed rock music. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? So my first instinct is to bring up the Nas song Who Killed It? Like, are you familiar with Nas? Hip Hop is Dead, which turns 20 this year? Oh, yeah. Oh, you are? Okay, that's good.

Why are you surprised that I would know Nas? Nas is like the most basic. That is the rapper that rock fans would know. Absolutely. But I'm talking about his 2006 album, Hip Hop Is Dead, where he does this song called, He has a song called Who Killed It, where he wraps in this like Edward G. Robinson, like, Chief Wiggum voice about like who killed hip hop is a murder mystery. It's one of the, it's one of the craziest songs that has ever made a major label

hip-hop album. I'm trying to think who would make this song in the modern day. Like Billy Corgan? In a rock content. Yeah, in rock context. It's like the who killed it of rock music. Well, you know, there needs to be a modern day American pie, I think. You know, where you write like a metaphor-rich history of music.

in the past, you know, whatever. Because like in that song, you know, he's talking about the day that music died. So that's Buddy Holly and Richie Valens, the big bopper. But then he's talking about the jester, who I think is Mick Jagger, or it might be Bob Dylan, and like the four guys in the orchestra,

which are the Beatles. It's like all this metaphor in that song. I remember in sixth grade, my teacher would play American Pie and he would try to break down all of the metaphors and explain to us what it meant. And I think someone needs to do that now, like for the last 20 years of music. Maybe the day, is this it, didn't go to number one, is the day the music died.

And then we just talk about rock music in the last 25 years. Yeah, I just don't know who cares about rock music that much to make that song in the current day. Maybe like Youngblood or something like that. Yeah, exactly, young blood. Yeah, so, you know, I bring this up because I wrote something on myself. substack this week about rock is dead discourse and also rock is back discourse because it's an ongoing story going back decades people declaring rock music is dead then saying rock music is back and we've had actually a pretty robust conversation about this in the last four and a half

or so months in uh 2026 you had the billy corgan thing which we didn't talk about on the show i think this happened before we came back. Yeah. Where Billy Corgan was on his podcast, the magnificent others, I think it's called. I believe you. Is that right? Yeah, I have no idea what his podcast is called. I've never listened to his, like, an entire episode.

I've only seen social media clips, which make it look like club random, but for like 58-year-old youngblood fans. That's a second Youngblood reference in this episode, ladies and gentlemen. So he was saying that Rock was marginalized intentionally, by MTV in the late 90s. And then he said, I think jokingly, but maybe not, that the CIA was involved in scaling. Do you think the CIA was involved in conspiring against Rock in the late 90s? I mean, this is the sort of thing that Nas would say.

Like, he would make these, like, random references to Hillary Clinton being a reptile. So, I would not put it past him. But, I mean, that would be, like, the one thing the CIA was successful at. So I'm not inclined. I'm not inclined to say that. Well, maybe the CIA is responsible for there being too many slow songs on a door. You know, I think that might be the culprit. Those are my favorite ones right there.

Did I overstep the line there? Because I think Adore, the electro-goth rock songs are awesome. But then there's too many slow ballads on that album. Once Upon a time is a great song, though. Look, I would cut out blank page. And there's some stuff towards the end. talking to a guy who reviewed the deluxe reissue of a door which had, I think, like, five extra bonus discs. So it's not the type.

I just love the fact that, like, people are describing Ador as this, like, kind of scaled back, like, modest down from the smashing pumpkins. And it's, it's like 78 minutes long. Yeah, it's, it's like 16 songs and, um, some great songs. I mean, I wish there were more new order rip-offs, like apples and oranges. Yeah, that song's awesome. And perfect and Eva, D'A, Daphne, Descends, pug, tear. We're getting distracted here. We're getting distracted by a doorcast here.

Back to Rock is Dead, Rock is Backcast. So you got the Billy Corgan thing. That was fairly recently. And then on the other side of the coin, you have Charlie XX who said that the dance floor is dead and that she's going to start making rock music. And she put out a song. Was that earlier this week or was that late last week? That was late last week after we recorded. Everything seems to be happening on Thursdays nowadays.

Yeah, Thursday afternoon. Come on, drop that stuff early Thursday morning so we can talk about it on the show. But anyway, she put out her single called Rock Music. And a lot of people were clowning on this song. You know, there's some rock signifiers or some guitars in it, but it sounds very processed. And there's this thing that she does with her vocals. like a stuttering digital effect. It sounds like a skipping CD.

I didn't mind the song personally. The comparison that came to my mind, and this is my version of Ador for you. What Adore is to you, 1997 rock albums, Pop by U2 is to me. It made me think of the song Disco Tech because it's U2 engaging with dance music,

just like Charlie is a dance artist engaging with rock music and doing it in a very obvious way where you're just going to call it the thing that you're referencing. Like, I'm making rock music. I'm going to call my single rock music. I'm going to make disco-referencing music. I'm going to call it Disco Tech. And I like the song, Disco Tech. It's kind of a clumsy song, but I've always had affection for it. I guess I feel the same way about rock music. I don't know if you have a take on Charlie

going rock. Yeah, I mean, it's fine. With Charlie X, X, X, X, X, and I think this, maybe Brat, like the actual like in real life success of it has made people kind of forget what she had been doing for the previous 13 years which is being so of the internet like conversing with her fans in real time defying expectations it's sort of a very like charlie x the x 2018 or 2020 type move but with the added pressure of you know following up brad eventually it seems like a troll it's in good fun. I think people are in on the joke. Charlie X-E-X included, you know, the good old, I think the new American pie would be called Schrodinger's Rock, where it's like both alive and dead at the same time. So I think Charlie is a little too of the discourse for it to be like discotheque, I guess. Like, I think

discotech was a little more guileless. I think you two was being ironic, but they also sort of meant it, whereas this seems more just kind of like a troll and joke. We've been. It won't be included probably on the next Charlie X-E-X album. I will say, though, that discothec comes on the album after Octune Baby is Octune Baby U2's brat. Well, you forgot about Zuropa. Well, there's Zuropa. I group them together. I feel like that's all one package.

But I feel like this is the move after you have a career-defining album is to step outside your genre in a very blatant way and to maybe deliberately embarrass yourself on some level. So what I'm saying is Charlie X-E-X is the new U-2. And that proves Rock is back. So one thing we wanted to talk about, there was an article printed, again, right after we recorded. I feel like this was Thursday or Friday last week. It was Thursday. In the intellectual journal slash website, is it, is it, we decided it's called, it's pronounced Jacobin?

Or is it Jacobin? Jacobin. Jacobin. They published an article. with the headline, liberal pop-timus tried to kill rock. They failed, which is a great headline. And the article basically is talking about how music writers, I think mainly in the 2010s, really took this attitude towards rock music that the writer was linking to liberal politics

in the 2010s. He actually has a line in the article where he likens Pop-Octomist critics to white dudes for Harris, which obviously is in the 2020s. But this sort of like Obama era liberalism that has a lot of performative social justice aspects to it that perhaps haven't aged as well now in the modern moment. And I feel like in our corner of the world, this article was widely attacked. Yeah. I mean, you brought up blue sky.

which I'll take your word for it. Oh, they hate it on blue sky. This was like blue sky. This is like a slow pitch down the middle for blue sky to not like. Yeah, but I think that like, you mentioned the title being funny. What I like about it is how by defining like liberal optimists, this implies the existence of conservative poptimists who are like not to blame. Like there are guys who are like super stoked about Alabama's map redistricting, but they also think Hillary Duff has a strong. longer catalog than geese. I guarantee this person. I keep hearing of reference on Choppo

Trapp house. Like, Ross Duthot might be one of these people. You think like Tucker Carlson has like a Mariah Carey T-shirt that he wears under the bowtie? I mean, maybe. He also thought fantasy was the best song of the 90s. Well, actually, Tucker's a deadhead. He's on record as being a deadhead. There's a photo of him with Jerry Garcia from the, like, no joke. He met Jerry Garcia in the 80s and there's a photo of him with Jerry. Not Jerry's best moment, for sure. I wrote about this article, among other things, on my substack, because the thing about this article is that a lot of pop-timism articles that come out,

there's been a lot of these over the years. It always overshoots, usually with the headline. Like, it promises something that it can't deliver, and that makes some of the valid criticisms made in the article. easier to dismiss because and I think you would probably back me up on this I do think that that the 2010s as an era of music writing that we can now look back on because I think things have changed I actually think that the rockism optimism thing is such old people stuff when I talk to younger critics this does not resonate with them at all I mean they just look at rock music as another

kind of music. Like they've never lived in a world where Yon Winner was beating them over the head with like five-star U-two reviews. You know, that's way beyond their frame of reference. So they don't have the same baggage that writers of our generation and maybe a little bit older have. But I do think that there was definitely a time when there were a lot of writers, pop-tomist critics, pretty prominent ones, were doing like the stuff white people-like routine. You remember that website? stuff white people like yeah that hip's are puppies might have been before 2010 but yeah absolutely stuff that was more yeah like yeah it was like white people making fun of white people right

right and um story is oldest time yeah in a very egregious and tiresome practice i think and look i wrote way too many words about this on my substack if you want to read i i don't want to get too much into this because we have other things that are to talk about here, but I do think it's kind of funny, thinking back to the mid-2010s, like when this was at its peak. And you think about indie rock at that time. And like, is it fair to say that that was like the least macho, like moment in rock history, possibly? Mid-2010s? Just think about indie, like, just thinking about indie rock, you know, in general. Like, like, who are the stars? I mean, clearly you have a lot of stars who,

are not straight white males. Certainly, you could talk about, you know, at Drosty from Grizzly Bear, at Bradford Cox, of Deer Hunter, Rostom from Vampire Weekend, the list goes on. But then the street white guys,

you have like Justin Vernon, a Bunny Bear? He wasn't like a women's studies major? A women's studies major who invited the Indigo Girls to perform an entire album at his music festival. Yeah.

You know, or you have like Robin Pecknell, the Fleet Foxes, you know, huge Judy Sil fan. You know, I think he just did a tribute concert to her again. I mean, he's been a huge proponent of her. Like, the guys in the national,

and clearly they ended up collaborating with Taylor Swift. That was like the Nixon ghost to China moment of the pop-timism, rockism wars. It's just funny to me that this was the moment when music criticism decided to take aim at indie rock when, again, I feel like these, it was like the least macho. sexist kind of not to say sexism didn't exist

of course it did but I think you understand what I mean there was Axel Rose was not walking through that door or Bruce Springsteen you know like I feel like Bruce Springsteen is always like the person they have or Bob Dylan is always the person they have in the back of their mind like when they're talking about like the

you know the the truth teller like gutting it out on stage right I don't know who that was like I mean no one even close to that no one was They're John Misty, I don't know. No one was doing the cut off sleeves with the muscle and the bandana. Maybe Dan Bochner was, but. But even like the Hold Steady, a band like that that was emulating that kind of music,

it was clearly put through a modern, I mean, Craig Finn being a very bookish individual, a guy who I think certainly, again, I don't think anyone would describe him as macho. He's not Bon Scott, you know, fronting this band or anything like that. It's just a very interesting juxtaposition in looking back on it, which I think that article does, but in my own piece, I tried to develop that a bit more because I do think that, in terms of like how rock or indie rock is perceived today, that it is, I feel like that doesn't exist as much anymore with younger people,

and it just feels like we've maybe moved on from that, which is refreshing. I think. Well, there is what we haven't said so far, and I think this speaks volumes about what things were really like in the mid-2010s. You know what band we haven't talked about yet? Japan droids. I mean, that was like the most, like, rockist, I guess, sort of thing. And that was still just like a relative blip, you know? I know a lot of people felt like maybe oppressed by how much people like ourselves like Celebration Rock, but they did that. They went away, uh, for like five years and then eight years.

There was, you were never, you were never, you were never, Japan droided out against your will, you know? And even those guys, it was like a pretty romantic version of that kind of music.

It wasn't, again, just thinking about, even, even like indie rock in the 80s and 90s, you know, thinking about, you know,

a band like the replacements, who, in one sense, I mean, people have talked about them being a band that like a lot of women, loved and they wrote a lot about women in their songs. And I think Westerberg was a pretty

sensitive songwriter and romantic in his own right. But, you know, they also had the image of like drunken buffoons. Yeah. Partying and running wild, you know, which is a very masculine guy type attitude to have. And I really feel like that had been filtered out naturally in a lot of rock music for better and for worse, I think in some respects. But the way that, it was written about at the time. And I get into it more in my article. Some of the things that were written back then, I think are, I think they seem a little crazy.

Well, we'll leave it at that. I don't know if we wanted to touch on the New York Times video, too. There was that video that the New York Times critics did. There was a video podcast. Did we talk about their songwriting list on the show? We might have. I didn't think we got too much into the, like we might have touched on. But I mean, I think the video warrants some discussion in a way that the list itself might not have.

Yeah, so, yeah, the New York Times, they did this list of the 30 greatest living American songwriters. And the list came out. Of course, some people liked it. Some people didn't. And then they did this video podcast where they were defending their choices. And look. I'm sure we don't come up very well to people either on this show. I think when you're a music critic and you're giving your opinion and you are unapologetic about it,

that's going to rub people the wrong way and it's going to come across as arrogant. You can't really completely avoid that. But I will say, like this video, they don't come off very well in this video. They seem pretty smug, I would say. Is that fair? I think it's kind of a bit. I mean, I think in some ways it's playing to the audience that is going to watch something like this, which is people like us.

So there is a bit of, you know, like everything's wrestling. There is a bit of like a heel sort of component to it. But like when they're talking about, and again, like, I think so many of these pieces give the game away by trying to establish like the enemy or whatever, which is like if we're still talking about like, you know, like this, this view that a great songwriter needs to be this guy sweating it out on stage with an acoustic guitar and like basically all like the interstitial scenes from the most recent Bruce Springsteen movie. And it's like, who are these people even talking about now? It feels like such a millennial coded or older thing. Like I think the Jackman

article messed up by putting so much stock into what like pitchfork is giving Taylor Swift and Adele nowadays. It's like, I think this. This is a very millennial coded argument that has no purchase in, you know, for younger people. But I think that was my takeaway from the New York. Like, who are they talking to? Well, yeah. I mean, and what you're talking about, this is part where John Caramanica is saying that we wanted to expand the definition of a singer-songwriter beyond the expected. And he talks about like the white man with the guitar and a room taking drugs and doesn't work with collaborators and all this stuff.

Like Jimothy. Like Jimothy. Exactly. Who's not American, sadly, or else he would have definitely been on this list. Love how you know that. But yeah, just arguing against this archetype, which is not being forwarded really by any establish. And like the New York Times is like the biggest media outlet in America. There aren't that many newspapers left.

There's not that many magazines left. You were at the top of the heap here. And there is this mentality. Because Caramanica is another one of these pop-timus critics where they don't really want to own that they're the establishment and have been for a long time. And they want to act like they're fighting the establishment, even when the things that they say seems so anodyne at this point. Like there's a point in that video where he's very passionately defending Jay-Z's inclusion on this list. And he's saying, if you don't support Jay-Z being on this list, you don't understand American song. And it's like, dude, who are you arguing with?

Like, who in the world would argue against this very famous billionaire who's a mainstay on Obama playlist every year? And is one of the most famous people in America. It'd be like me going on a presidential podcast and saying, doggone it, I think George Washington is an important president. And I don't care who knows it. And I think you should put him on the $1 bill. That's how important I think he is. It's like, dude, it's not 1996 anymore.

Like, there is no one, aside from anonymous internet commenters. Right. Who are the people that they end up arguing with in that video, by the way. Because those are the people who are left who are saying, oh, I don't like it when there's 27 songwriters on a song where I think lip-sicking is stupid. Yeah. It's like the guys that they talk about on the classic rock guys episodes of guys, a podcast about guys.

Like, straight up like Reddeter type people. There is not anyone who is an equal or like a peer of them who is making, who is forwarding that argument, you know, it's like the Green Day Billboard. Like, I'm also wondering if that Green Day billboard is a joke now, but a little too clever. But yeah, there's just nobody making this argument now. Yeah. So anyway, I wrote about this. I wrote, again, way too many words about it.

But you can check it out at Evil Speakers on the Interstate. internet. Let's talk about albums that are coming out today, Ian. And it's not a huge slate. No. All American Rejects, their new album Sandbox is out today. All I know about them is that they've been doing all these like viral stunky concerts lately. Yeah, Eve Six really messed up the game. Like they established a like a template for bands of this ilk to follow. You know, look, I'm not hating, but I don't think that I'm going to have to answer questions about All American Rejects when I'm pitching my emo book out there in the world. So whatever. I don't know.

I mean, are they important to people younger than us, 10, 15 years? I don't know. I feel every now and again, there are people on Twitter who will, like, argue for like, swing, swing, you know, them being the greatest songwriters alive in America. I mean, I'm assuming all American rejects because they are American. I don't know if they are, but, you know, it's like one of those sort of things that it's not too far away from like the third eye blind like made the best all rock album of the 1990s sort of deal it's within that general universe of opinions um there's a dude drake record coming out apparently

i don't believe that yeah it's uh it's not even bolded on metacritic apparently they're not too confident about that so we'll set that aside there's a new kevin morby record out today called little wide open. I have to say Kevin Morby is one of those people that I feel like I should love. And I've enjoyed moments on his records in the past, but I don't know, it just leaves me a little cold,

I have to say. And I feel like you probably are not. I think I'm like kind of just stuck making the same old, more like Kevin Bore me jokes. But what I see for this new album is it's very interesting to me that you're seeing the his most accomplished, his most tuneful, his most cohesive sort of praise for that. And that is all just a fancier way for a music critic to say it's like his most recent album. Like I like this one the most because it's like the newest one. And I'm not accusing anyone of doing something I haven't done myself. But, you know,

what are you going to say about the eighth album by something? Yeah, I know. You run out of adjectives. Unless, you know, someone's getting married or divorced or they're dealing with some personal travails, the narrative hook isn't really there. It does seem like they were pushing the Midwestern angle pretty hard with this record. The title is little wide open. I don't know if that's a nod to where he lives. I read the pitchfork profile, which opens with him drinking, I think, at a BFW maybe in the middle of the country, and there's a train in the distance that can be heard whistling. And I was just wondering. if if like Morby's publicists were brainstorming different Midwestern things for him to do.

Because, you know, for these articles, for those who don't know, a lot of times, you know, you read these articles and it's the writer and the artist hanging out somewhere. And a lot of times that's set up by the publicists. You're stage managing the profile. So, for instance, if you are doing, like I think for the Lucy Dacus, album that came out last year where she's on the cover with a painting of herself on the cover.

I think in one of the interviews I read, she was with the writer at an art museum, you know, so that was an easy thing to go, we were looking at works of art. One could say her album covers work of art, you know, and then you go into that. So maybe they were like, hmm, should we send them to

a cracker barrel? We could do that. Or how about, what if we went to like a St. Vincent DePaul? And did some shopping there. And they go, how about we go to the BFW? Let's do that. So what I want, what I want is for, like, if we're really going to play this Kansas City

angle, like, I want to hear his opinions about, like, some of the guys on the chiefs with criminal records, you know, like, like, what does he think about Matt or Razza or Harrison Butker? He's like, yeah, I don't really, I don't necessarily agree with him. But, you know, you knows how to kick the ball. That's what I need to see if I'm going to get some, like, real Kansas City stuff. I think you would go to like a barbecue place. Oh yeah.

I think, you know, that's what Gates, I believe. That's where I went. Do I have that name right? I went to LQ's, I think, when I was in Kansas City. That shit was so good. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what it was called. Yeah, I did that.

I spent one day in Kansas City on my way back from, no, LCs, I think, LCs Barbecue. That stuff, I got burn ends. That stuff was so good. I was in Dallas recently and I got barbecue there. I'm like, I could never live here. I would be a thousand pounds. I don't know how you wouldn't want to eat that every day. It was so good.

I got the peach cobbler. Just like a pile of warm goo. It was so good. Rostam has a new record out. American Stories. I see that he just released a single with Claro this week. So that's cool. I haven't listened to a ton of a solo material, I have to say.

No, Discovery. I mean, I remember being into that Discovery album for a little bit, the one he did with the guys from Ra Ra Riot. But beyond that, I've not really been too much into his solo work. I mean, I know him as a producer, great producer, obviously ex-vampire Weekend, super talented person. I'm sure that record is very much worth checking out. A new record from Spencer Krug, Same Fangs.

We've already talked about the Wolf Parade. Assants and this solo record is well-timed, I would say. Yeah, shout out to Sunset Rubdown. I say I wouldn't mind a new album, but they put out one like a few years ago and I didn't, I forgot to check it out. Dragon Slayer by them, that's a great record, Sunset Rubdown. I think that's 09. That's 09.

Shut up I'm dreaming was, that's the 06 one. That one is, yeah, that's the one I'm into right there. Good stuff. So I think that about does it here for new releases out this week. Let's talk about some indie news. B.B. Bridgers, it appears, is on the verge of putting out some new music. I'll read from this story from Stereogum. Nearly six years after her sophomore album Punisher,

she's popped up back on the radar to perform shows in Roswell, New Mexico, and then Lubbock, Texas. Kind of doing like the Lana Del Rey thing where you show up in unexpected spots. and do some viral marketing that way? I thought you were going to bring up like doing the shine down circuit where you're like touring all these like B marketplaces like San Bernardino and, you know, Marietta. But I guess this one has a little bit more staginess to it. The shine down circuit. I love it.

It's not the Chitland circuit anymore. It's the shine down circuit. Now more new clues about the hopefully forthcoming follow up have emerged via photos from a now deactivation. link from Bridger's website. The now viral videos capture Bridgers in the studio with a bunch of musician pals including Maddie Healy, Alex G, Jack Antonoff, and her beau Bo Burnham. So looks like Phoebe is teasing her return. There hasn't been an official album announcement yet.

I don't think there have been any songs. I think maybe she played some new songs at these concerts. I think she did, yeah. I don't know to what degree those were recorded. But Phoebe Bridgers, I'll just throw this out there to you as a question. Well, first I'll make a declaration and then I'll ask you a question. I think Phoebe Bridgers is probably the biggest star in indie rock right now. Someone who feels, at least of the indie rock world,

more so than maybe the mainstream pop world. This next record may change that very quickly. I'm phrasing it that way because I'm discounting, like, Lana Del Rey and Mitzki, artists like that, who I think are now maybe more mainstream pop than they are indie, although maybe one foot in each world. But in terms of, like, singer-songwriters and Phoebe Bridgers being more of like a straight-down-the-line kind of classic-looking indie star, I feel like she's the biggest. And with the Boy Genius thing, I really feel like.

Like she was the Neil Young of that group. You know, Boy Genius is CSNY. Phoebe is the Neil Young, where she, on her own, I think, is bigger, or at least as big as that group put together, which would make, I guess, Julian and Lucy Crosby and Nash. Or maybe, and they get the split Stephen Stills between them. But, yeah. Julian is famously sober, so she's definitely not the David Crosby. She's more of a Nash, for sure, I would say. Nash is like the chillest one.

So she might be the Nash. Anyway, do you think that's right? Do you think she's the biggest? And if so, what are her prospects with this comeback? Yeah, I mean, I think that she had, I mean, I think you've created the boundary so that we can't include like Noah Kahan or whatever. But does he count as indie though? I don't know. Probably not.

like he's like in the hosier lane to me yeah like uh honorary lesbian according to lucy dacus um i'm wondering i mean noa con is like yeah he's huge yeah totally biggest biggest album in america for the last few weeks totally i don't feel like he ever had like an indie phase though i feel like he was always yeah like maybe like ticot you know like because like you think about like they got famous on ticot which is not indie but um yeah i think phoebe bridgers has a very clear trajectory i mean from indie. Like, let's not, you know, let us not forget. There was a time where she was covering Japan droids and like American football for clout.

So, yeah, she's of that world. And I think that's a pretty fair statement to make. You know, if you want to, I don't know if I would include Lana Del Rey in there. I think she's indie coded. But I think Phoebe has like kind of more stardom, like at least more ascendant in that regard. And, yeah, I've thought about, I mean, we've. touched on this like as long as pretty much as long as we've been doing this podcast because Punisher came out I think right before Indycast did.

Yeah, that's such a pandemic era. Yeah. Album. I mean, it's one of the things from that time that really stands out. I mean, most things I feel like got forgotten immediately in that record, such a pivotal album this decade. No question. It definitely predates Indycast because I remember there were arguments about

whether or not it should delay its release date because of it was like being released on like Juneteenth or something like that. This is very reflective of the sort of conversations we were having online back then. But, you know, now with her being where she's, I mean, not to get all Jacobin with it, but I think that the timing is really good for a new Phoebe Bridgers album in a way that it wouldn't necessarily be in 2024. I'm thinking about this as I'm hearing, you know, talks about. about like the Biden bros coming back.

And kind of pitching that 2020, hey, remember when, remember when, you didn't have to care about the news all the time? Like that was like more or less the Joe Biden pitch. And it worked. And then it was also a time where it's like, Donald Trump, he's like being booted out of society. I think it's more just like timing is everything.

And, you know, if this were happening in 2024, I think that there might still be some unsatisfied backlash coming. but I think the last Lucy Dacus album and maybe to a certain extent the Julian Baker Torres album absorbing a little bit of that boy genius backlash I think it was a bit warranted but I think Phoebe has kind of gone through

it like she has cleared it and now I think people are legitimately excited because like you know as with Biden as with Trump 2.0 you just kind of have to be a relief from whatever else is going on And I don't know what's happening in 2026 right now. There is no juice this year.

There is, like, we need a Phoebe out. We need a Phoebe out. You mean in terms of like stars. Yeah. It's not like a big, there's not Tom Cruise top gun maverick equivalent of indie albums. I think there's been a lot of good albums this year, but they're not, uh, it's, it's a lot of like people just kind of coming, putting out their first records. It's not really the stuff by stars. There haven't been like a lot of star albums really at all.

Yeah, we need her back. We need the 1975 back. I think they're always teasing something. Yeah, there just hasn't been that. I mean, like, yeah, Noah Cahan is like just dominating the charts. But I think we're ready for a star to come back. And I think we're ready for like Phoebe Bridgers to come back because any sort of fatigue there was around people sounding like Phoebe Bridgers,

which was like it was very real. I think that may have passed and we're on to like something else now. Like maybe like Phoebe Bridgers is like the alternative to whatever, you know, people are sick of now in Iraq. I think Phoebe, you know, I think there was a thing with Boy Genius that felt maybe a little, like you were saying, a little Biden administration. vibes and there were people reacting to that. I actually think Phoebe can transcend that though

because of her stardom, I think she's really talented. I think she's the most talented out of the three boy geniuses. I like all three of them, but I think she's the one that stands out. And she also has like a sense of humor and a sense of self-awareness, I think, that, like, I trust her to find a way to come back that will feel fresh. And will, I mean, it's so funny with her. Have you interviewed Phoebe Bridgers ever? I've not, no.

I've interviewed her a couple of times. And it's such a fascinating juxtaposition between her music, which is this can be quite emotionally intense and whispery music. And then you talk to her. She talks like a surfer girl. You know, she's like a, and she says, dude, every other sentence. And she's really funny. and she has like a little bit of like Jeff Spicoli Fast Times and Ridgebound High to her, you know, as a person.

And if anything, I've often wished that a little bit of that was more in her music. I think that there is humor in her lyrics, but she tends to underplay it a little bit with the way she delivers the songs. They tend to read as more serious sometimes than I think she is as a person. I just wish her her songs were as funny as her because she's like really fun to talk to although I feel like

it's going to be really hard to interview her at this point she's going to be hard to get on the horn but yeah I'm excited to hear that record which yeah I would expect probably fall of 2026 seems like you know getting time for the year end list season September seems like a big time

for big ticket records to come out I'm going to call Phoebe Bridger's album in September. I think that's when it's going to come out. I think that's a pretty good call. Yeah, I'm excited for it to come out. And I think that, you know, it's kind of goes back to the conversations that we were having about, like, you know, rock to rock and pop optimism. It's like, I think with Phoebe Bridgers, a lot of, I don't know, fatigue is less about her or her music than like the way people interact with her music. I mean, every article, every culture article is just like, these people annoy me on.

online. Let me talk about how this is a greater cultural trend. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out if and when this album actually does come out. Well, what I want to talk about next is something you brought up in our texting this week that surprised me, but it also reminded me that I live in a bubble, which is that Tame Impala has a top 10 hit right now from their last album Deadbeat, which you and I and many other critics basically left for dead when that album came out. It was very poorly reviewed. And you and I are both Tame and Pala fans. And it's by far the album I've listened to The Least by Tame Impala. I mean, Tame Impala is a record. They're a band who, however else you feel about them, they make very listenable music.

They make records that you can play over and over again. I mean, Currants is pretty, you're probably one of my most played albums of the last 15 years. I wouldn't even call it like my favorite album of the last 15 years, but I've heard it so many times, either on my own volition or, you know, anytime I'm in Los Angeles and I'm in a hotel lobby, I feel like I hear Tame Impala. But this song, Dracula, which was released, I guess it was released last fall, like when the album came out. I think it was the first single. And it was a Hot 100 hit on its own. It was the first Tame Ampala song to do that. And I guess it became, I think, it looks like the original version topped out at number 25.

But then there was a K-pop remix done with Jenny from Black Pink. And now the song is at number 10 on the Hot 100. So Tama Pala officially has a top 10 song. And I think for us, we could talk about just Tame and Pala being a huge deal in which we already knew, but I'm always fascinated by these instances where we're reminded that, oh yeah, what we say and think on this show is actually separate from the rest of the world. At Tame and Pala, this album that we thought was whatever, this is a low point for them,

it's actually delivered this incredible high point for them career-wise. Yeah, I mean, 95% of my interaction with, pop music of any sort happens at work. Most of my coworkers are, you know, in their 30s or what have you and have like, you know, what I would describe as pretty, you know, pop-centric taste. And I've heard Dracula more times in maybe the past three or four months than feel like we only go backwards or the less I know the better combined. Like it just seems like every time I'm in one of the meal rooms and they're just

playing some Spotify playlist. Dracula's on. It is triple platinum in the La Jolla streets. But I didn't realize it was like big, big in terms of like pop. I thought this was just, okay, this is on a, you know, a Spotify playlist alongside like Somber or Noah Cahan or, you know, MGMT or something like that. But I mean, good for Kevin Parker. It's funny because I thought he had already topped.

out as a pop artist, you know, appearing on like, appearing on like ASAP Rocky or Duelipa songs. And I mean, I would imagine this would be seen as a mandate for more of the same from him. So we're definitely not getting, you know, inner speaker or lonerism again. Maybe Pond will satisfy that need for me. But, I mean, good for him, I guess, you know. Yeah, I don't mind the song. Yeah, no, I say good for him. Look, he's given us the records that we like, and we can go back to them and listen to them. He's under no obligation to make lonerism again, although I think you're right. And I don't even know if he's interested in that. But if he ever did have the urge, like, oh, I want to pick up a guitar and write Beatles and Pink Floyd songs again. You know, that's not going to happen probably at this point. Although we could be wrong. Who knows. But certainly the financial incentives will be to continue.

to continue to push in this direction for him. Yeah, his scarf game is going to go crazy in the next two years. I got to say, too, you know, I didn't love the haircut either. I miss the long-haired Jesus look from Kevin Parker. You know, I just feel betrayed by him, but not betrayed. I'm saying that jokingly that he's in his short hair. I mean, he looks like, you know, so many other people now that make that kind of music. It looks like Nate Amos, man.

That's true. He does look like, well, that's a good segue. Actually, to our next segment. I want to talk about Nate Amos, of course, he is the mastermind behind the genius, pop, folk, country, rock, all types of genres group. This is Lorelei, also part of the great band, Water from Your Eyes. He just signed to Madador Records this week after releasing a couple of EPs on Double Whammy, including the records that he has made his reputation. Of course, he has a bunch of other albums that are in band camp that have not been officially released.

He has a huge backlog of material. But it looks like he will be putting out his Matador records debut later this year. You know, you talked earlier about this year not having much juice. I wrote about this is Lorelei at the beginning of this year calling that I feel like he's going to be the indie breakout star of 2026. I don't think that that is such a radical proclamation. He's clearly being groomed for that. You see so many other budding indie stars covering his music, specifically MJ Lederman, Waxahatchy's done it. I don't know if Geese or Cameron Winter have done it.

I feel like maybe Winter covered an aid animal. song, but they're all in the same crew. I feel like they're hanging out on a beach somewhere, the Illuminati indie rock island where all the pre-chosen indie stars hang out. But no, he's an incredibly talented guy. I interviewed him last year, really smart and thoughtful. He is someone I'm pulling for. I think he's a really good artist, really talented songwriter.

And, you know, signing to Matador, obviously an Indian. indie label, but a historically great indie label with a good amount of juice. And yeah, I just feel like he's being set up to be the guy who's dominating year-end list. Again, I would expect this album to be out in September or October. That's like the Oscar corridor for year-endless. If you want your album to have a great shot at year-endless, put your album out in the fall of the year. But yeah, he's great. And I think this album that he's going to be putting out,

I think he's going to be probably really great too. So excited for that, for him. Yeah, I mean, we love Nate Amos around here. But I'm glad that he's putting out a new album and doing so soon because I'm going to be real. I feel like his past stuff has been repackaged and reissued as much as that Black Puma's album that keeps getting nominated for Grady's. Well, Box for Buddy, Box for Star has been, yeah, repackaged a couple of times. with additional songs, which is not unique to him, to be fair. I mean, I feel like we've talked about this,

maybe in the old indie cast, the pre-Avazon indie cast, but there is this trend of like, oh, we're doing the reissue of an album that's only a year old. Yeah, totally. But it is a way to keep an album in the conversation. So I don't want to hate on it too much, but I'm with you. It's nice that he's going to be putting out something new.

Yeah, I think that, as we were saying above, 2026 badly lacks juice. He's got a ton of momentum from the covers. I mean, all he has to do, in my view, is basically show up and do his thing. And we're in for an enormous makeup call. I don't even have to hear the album to feel pretty confident. It's going to be a top 10 lock on most indie-focused websites. But I don't know if it has like a getting killed type ceiling.

I think that he is kind of a little more introvert. He doesn't have that kind of rock star appearance or demeanor that Cameron Winter does. and I would say like maybe the floor is peak Alex G because I'm thinking about like beach music which is kind of where Nate Amos is right now like beach music was Alex G's debut on Domino which is pretty similar to Matador in terms of like indie but like come on it's really a major

and it was seen as kind of a disappointment but yeah I feel confident it's gonna be a great record or and if not like the getting killed of this year It could be the always or what have you. It's like the one indie album that everyone kind of gravitates around and celebrates. Yeah, I think that's a good comparison. Because I would say even like Manning Fireworks, I don't know if he's going to do that necessarily with this album. But I do think he's going to be one of those people that, oh, I'm always excited that he's got an album coming out.

You know, and in a way that's maybe even better than the geese slot because, yeah, you don't get the highs, but you don't get the lows either. You know, he just seems like the kind of person who it's like, oh yeah, whatever he does is going to be good. He's a smart, talented person. He's also a little bit older. I mean, he's in his mid-30s. So he's not, you know, Cameron Winter, M.J. Lenderman, these are guys in their mid-to-late, or early to mid-20s. So he's a little bit older. He's been around.

And he's just such a pro. And hopefully water from your eyes continues to be a project that sticks around as well. I mean, when I interviewed him, he seemed very committed to doing both projects and alternating between both of them. Water From Your Eyes, of course, is the duo that he does with Rachel Brown, who is the singer in that band and a great contributor. Obviously, Water From Your Eyes is such a great lead singer presence. So him being both the, I don't know if sidemen is the right word for Water From Your Eyes, but he's not the front person in that group necessarily. Kind of like the quiet genius or whatever you would call it. Yeah, exactly.

And even him on his own, he's not. But, you know, I think, again, he's going to be someone that, I think, I see him having a long career and always doing interesting stuff. He's not going to be a stand-in for a certain type of guy in the same way that MJ Lenderman or even Alex G was back then. I think that he's, you know, in both a good and maybe a not-so-good way, he's like, doesn't stand for anything bigger than himself. in terms of his image. So I think that's going to be, but, like, helpful in terms of how the album is received. But we're not going to get,

we're not going to get any sort of, like, the backlash or, like, people being, like, mad about, like, you know, totally overrated in the same way getting killed was, you know? Yeah, totally. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first. Yeah, not to get all real lies or the,

the streets with it, but there's a certain style of electronic music that sends me into a reverie about first getting into it. But it's not like doing E at a field rave. It's more like the summer of 2006 when I was like fully pitchfork-pilled, like living at my parents, studying for the bar. And all I did was like study, drink, play EANCA football and listen to like junior boys or orchestra of bubbles or what have you. Great times. I miss them. The album that really satisfies that need for me right now. It came out a few weeks ago. It's from a project called Jump Source, and the album is called Fold. It's a couple of guys who have been knocking around, and I guess you would describe it as the upper echelons of indie-coded electronic music for a while. And this hits the

same 2006 ratio of expansive club music, you know, house or techno. There's occasional pop songs with vocals. There's dreamy come-down music. Great ratio of that. It's a very satisfying hour of music that if it's not like reinventing what electronic music is capable of, which I think there's an expectation that electronic music has to do that in order to be critically acclaimed, this is just very satisfying. And if you're the type who feels a little bit alienated by how abstract or complicated a lot of celebrate electronic music is, this one is just very satisfying.

So jump source, fold. So I want to talk about a band from Los Angeles called gun outfit who put out a record recently called Process and Reality. It's a double record clocking in at a healthy 82 minutes. I'm always a sucker for a band that's going to take a big swing like that. And this is a record that, again, is definitely up my alley. It's this hazy mix of psychedelia, country folk, and rock influences. And again, that feels very quintessentially Los Angeles, at least to me, someone who lives in the Midwest and thinks about Los Angeles. But this idea of imagining, you know, being in the Hollywood Hills, maybe being under the influence of various substances, and looking at the sunset.

That is the type of vibe that this band evokes for me. And it dovetails quite nicely with something I've been doing on my substack. Evil Speakers, I've been reviewing the albums this month from the great L.A. 90s band Acetone group that was not popular in their time. but has gained a cult following over the years. And that band minds a similar vibe of very sort of Southern California, music that has like surf guitar, these gently rolling rhythms, and kind of like a third Velvet Underground album, you know, coming from the East Coast influence filtered into that,

mixed with like Flying Burrito Brothers type stuff. That dovetails nicely with this gun outfit record that I've been listening to a bunch lately. And again, you know, as we ease into summer here, the beautiful weather that we're experiencing here in the Midwest, I'm sure everywhere, this is just a great record for that to take that in. So if you like the kind of thing that I'm talking about, check out the record process in reality. The band is called Gun Outfit. Really good stuff. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week.