Indiecast - Red Hot Chili Peppers + Machine Gun Kelly, Plus: RIP Taylor Hawkins

Episode Date: April 1, 2022

To say a lot happened in pop culture this week would be an understatement. The music world collectively mourned the loss of Foo Fighters' drummer Taylor Hawkins (5:38). A day later, cultural discourse was dominated by Will Smith slapping Chris Rock at the Oscars (:28). This week on Indiecast, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen recap the week and name the first album that disappointed them (19:34).Speaking of disappointing albums, this week's main segments are about the new LPs from Red Hot Chili Peppers (28:47) and Machine Gun Kelly (41:09). RHCP's Rick Rubin-produced Unlimited Love dropped this week, the band's first album in six years. Indiecast's thoughts on the mid-tempo album can pretty much be summed up in two words: It's fine. Machine Gun Kelly is an artist that's more used to getting flack from critics, and it shows on his album Mainstream Sellout. It's his second pop-punk album thus far and both Steven and Ian think he might be better than his detractors believe.In this week's Recommendation Corner (51:22), Ian shouts out the anticipated new album by Pup, The Unraveling Of PupTheBand. Steven mentions his interview with The Gaslight Anthem's Brian Fallon ahead of their 2022 reunion tour.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 83 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Machine Gun Kelly. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I can't wait to see him in G.I. Jane 2. Ian, how are you?

Yeah, I mean, we typically complain during this part of the episode where we just made. missed the window of opportunity for some piece of prime banter. But I think this week I could not be more happy that, like, we're recording on a Thursday, five days of passing. Like, we are under no obligation to mention the slap beyond, you know, it taking me this long to bring up wise alopecia, which is a future Indycast Hall of Famer and my favorite album of 2008. Wow.

That's a callback to, is that the only album named Alopecia? I don't think there's another album that reference. referenced alopecia ever. That's something for the Indycast interns out there to do a quick fact check on. Yeah, it was fascinating to see all the takes unfold this week about the slap. I think that it is literally impossible to have a good take on the slap beyond. That was like a really crazy thing that happened. But, you know, the people who are trying to connect it to Donald Trump or the Ukraine, you know,

just or saying that, you know, Will Smith could have killed Chris Rock if Chris Rock was Betty White. That was an actual take. I think it's amazing that this whole thing, it just overshadowed everything else about the Oscars. Like, I think as of now, people still, like if you said Coda, they wouldn't think of the film, they would think, oh, that's the worst Led Zepp album. You know, like, that's what that's most known as. I just had to do a callback to the GI Jane joke because, you know, Chris Rock is this brilliant comedian. Is that going to be his most famous joke? now? Like the the G.I. Jane 2 joke? Because that's maybe the worst joke he's ever done in his career.

Yeah. I mean, I think the Oscars just brings out like the worst than anyone who takes the stage. Not that like I'm overly familiar with like Billy Crystal's comedic exploits. But I don't know. Maybe grand opening, grand closing will continue to resonate. Maybe no sex in the champagne room. We'll have like a second life. But yeah, he's not on tour right now, right? Yeah, he just started a tour and he obviously timed this. I don't know if he was thinking like, oh, I'm going to be on the Oscars and there will be a good springboard for me into my tour. Yeah. He obviously didn't know that this whole thing was going to happen. But he doesn't, I read a story that he did a show on Wednesday in Boston.

I think that was the start of his tour. And he doesn't really talk about Will Smith at all. I think he acknowledged it at the beginning. But he already had, obviously, his show worked out. Right. in advance. So no Will Smith material. I think it's amazing too that the slap has also overshadowed the Grammys.

Like, do you remember that the Grammys are this weekend? I usually don't pay a lot of attention beyond like, you know, the occasional, who do we think's going to win the Grammys? Who's actually going to win the Grammys? As if it's like there's like a good, like a goofus and gallant type outcome binary going on here. But like, yeah, apparently it is happening. I just always know that there's like a part in March where there's like a whole bunch of shit that I don't care about. And, you know, I'm glad they give them back to back.

You know, I was interviewed this week by the Wall Street Journal about the rock categories at the Grammys. And the thesis of the piece was talking about like, why do the Grammys get rock music so wrong? Yeah, tell me. Well, my, I mean, my reply to that was that they get everything wrong. Oh. Yeah, I don't know if rock music is any more worse than any other. other category. I mean, the Grammys, after all, did give a Grammy to Mac Lamar over Kendrick Lamar. It's not like they're getting hip hop right either. I mean, I don't know if

there's any genre that the Grammys just nail every year where people are just like, oh, yeah, they got that right. Best new artist. I mean, their track record and that is Sterling. Exactly. Sort of like being on... Glass animals, baby, that up and coming underdog, man. They might surprise you in the best new artist category. I feel like for a while, maybe this isn't true anymore, but there was this thing with the best new artist that it was like being on the cover of Madden Football that you would get injured immediately if you were on the cover

of Madden Football. Christopher Cross was like the main example being used for that or like who else was there? It was like the put your records on person, whoever I cannot remember that person's name. I mean, like Millie Van Nilly was

Best New Artist, which outside of the lip-sinking scandal I mean, made sense, I think, in the moment. Yeah, that was going to happen in any way. But I don't know. The fact that we can't remember a lot of best new artist winners is maybe enough of an indictment. I mean, there's been some big one.

I mean, like, you know, Bonnie Vair won on his second record. He won for $22 a million in 2016. No, it was Bunny Bear, Bunny Bear he won for. Okay. I think. And that was, because that was this big breakout year. That's when he got parodied by Justin Timberlake on SNL. Oh, wow.

I feel like we're... Justin Byrne needs to slap the shit out of the dude. I feel like we're stalling here because we don't want to talk about the tragic news that happened this week, which is the death of Taylor Hawkins, of the footh fighters that happened on Friday. And there's still news coming out about this. There's been an investigation into his death. I don't think there's been an official proclamation yet, but there's been reports that there were multiple substances in his system when he died.

and just to die in a hotel room while on tour. I mean, that's a sad way to go for anybody. And of course, there was a previous incident with Taylor Hawkins back in 2001 where he overdosed. And there was actually like a brief window of time where they thought he died from that. I did not know that. Yeah, he was in a coma for a long time. And then he came out. It appeared that he had 20 years of sobriety.

and obviously the foo fighters have done great in that period of time. Yeah. But now this has happened. And I don't know. What can you say? I mean, it's such a sad story. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those situations which is just like incredibly sad and also balanced

by the fact that every single person who had anything to say about Taylor Hawkins like had the most positive things imaginable to say. Like I cannot think of the last time someone was like so consensusly beloved. it. And I think that it's just, it was really awesome, like, in his life to see, like, a person who could not be better suited for the job that he actually had, which is to be, like, the drummer in the rock and roll ambassador band, you know? Yeah. Like, you watch him play, and it's like, yeah, this is why rock and roll was fun. Yeah, and he was also, he could be a front man, too. Like, there was this moment in each show that he would come out and he would sing.

There was actually a clip of the last Foo Fighters show. ever, or at least with Taylor Hawkins, where he steps out and he's saying somebody to love by Queen. And he's totally being a frontman, you know, and he could slip into that role and do it really well. And as you were saying, I mean, he, he's just like this blonde-haired dude, very effervescent, happy-go-lucky, just seemed like the prototypical rock drummer in a lot of ways. And, you know, the thing I've been thinking about in the aftermath of his passing, along with all just, again, the sadness and the tragedy of it is, you know, I can't help but wonder, like, what the future of the foo fighters is,

because this is a band that seems set up to be the next Rolling Stones, like the band that is just going to play stadiums forever. Like, I, it just seemed like for, like, at least the next 20 years, that they would have been able to do that easily, just based on their track record. Because I feel like the stones at this point, they've reached that status where, Even if you don't like the stones, like people go see them because it's like they're playing in a stadium.

I want to be in a stadium for a rock show. They're sort of like the default rock band for a more casual audience of concert goers. It just seemed like Food Fighters were going to be that kind of band. And then this happens. And, you know, on one hand, I think people look at Food Fighters as Dave Grohl and a supporting cast. But on the other hand, Taylor Hawkins clearly the most recognizable member after Dave Grohl. I guess Pat Smir would be. be number three on that hierarchy.

Well, I don't know. Nate Mendel as a Sunday Day real estate fan, I got to say. Like, the guy, like, an icon of playing his base up at his neck. Yeah, he'd be number four. I'm just saying consensus. Pat Smir was in Nirvana, too. You know, I just think he's, he's a little more recognizable. I mean, I was thinking about that because I had a conversation with a friend, like the day after the news broke that Taylor Hawkins died. And my friend was saying that there's no way that they continue. And I was saying like, Oh, wow. Like, well,

there's such a valuable brand as a touring act that it's hard for me to imagine them not continuing. But on the other hand, I also can't see Dave Grohl hiring another drummer. Chad Smith. Well, he's already in a band, you know?

I mean, I think Dave, I mean, the only scenario that makes sense is that if Dave Grohl just becomes like a singing drummer. Like he's, like, he becomes the next drummer. That makes sense. to me for them continuing, but I don't know. Do you think that they are still going to be a band after this? I think they'll still

be a band. It'll take a while. I mean, I don't know, maybe they'll patch things up with William Coltsmith and he'll stop being mad online about everything, but I doubt that. That chip has sailed many, many years ago. Yeah, it'll be like Josh

Freeze or John Theodore, like, one of those guys who you just like plug in as, you know, like a rock band drummer. I think it'll take a while, but I, like, what, I just cannot imagine it, uh, not happening. And also, I think, kind of give, you know, food fighters music, like, uh, at least the shows and emotional poignant that I think people had kind of criticized them for like not having for a while. You know, it's like, oh, food fighters, they're just kind of like a brand. But, you know, I think this

kind of brings it back to the fact that, yeah, these are actual people and, you know, they're putting their heart into it. And I think it's just, oh, it's a different sort of heart than people are like used to, at least in the current day, you know. No one's like Dave Grohl run me over with a truck or whatever. Well, to segue from that very sad story, there's no real clean way to get away from the Taylor Hawkins story. But I did want to talk to you about the discourse around, I guess, the busiest young indie band of the year.

I mean, can we call them? Oh, yeah. They definitely seem to be that. We're talking about wet leg. We are. This is a duo from England. They're putting out their self-tied. debut album next week.

And I guess we'll talk about it next week, although next week is pretty loaded. I mean, we've got Father John, Misty, and Jack White already on tap. But we'll get wet leg in there, too, because this is, again, a very discussed record. So we'll talk about the music next week, but I wanted to talk about the conversation around this band because there were two profiles of Wetleg published this week,

one by the New York Times and the other by Rolling Stone, both very glowing, both very positive. But I had to laugh at the headlines. these stories because they're structured in a very similar way. So like the New York Times their headline is, they blew up fast period, they know it's weird. And then the Rolling Stone headline is

they call them the busiest band of the year, period. They're just as surprised as you are. You know, very similar structure there where they're hyping the band but there's also this baked in, I don't want to say skepticism, but an acknowledgement that there might be skepticism that this band

has risen so fast because they basically started putting out music in 2020. They had that viral hit Chase Lounge. That was 2021, wasn't it? Was it 2021? Okay, did they start? Did they start in 2021?

I think they may have like started in 2020, but I remember that song kind of blowing up last year. And yeah, because that was the year of Jimothy, so you couldn't have been the busiest band in 2021. Right. Jimithy took the crown in 2021. Now it's wet leg. Yeah.

But they're already a really popular band. I know here. in Minneapolis, they recently played a headlining show at First Avenue, which is where a lot of the more established indie acts tour, like that's where Lucy Dacus headlines, you know, in town. So Wetleg is already at that level as a touring act, even though they haven't even put out their debut album yet. So naturally, this inspired some industry plant talk online. The favorite music conspiracy of those who are doubtful of really hyped acts. What's your take on this?

I mean, again, we'll talk more about their music next week. Really, we're just interested in the hashing out of the trend. Well, yeah, we'll talk about the trends first, and then we'll review the record next week. But, I mean, like in the New York Times story, there's this paragraph where I think it says something like, you know, they got signed based on four songs on a private sound cloud. And they got management, even though, you know, they, They hadn't played live yet. You know, it seemed like people were zeroing in on them very, very early on.

And they had this support network that has kind of helped propel them forward. Well, yeah. I mean, it's so funny because people like to think that they kind of know how the music industry works. Because there has been like a lot more transparency about like how labels get down. And like there's a lot fewer qualms about. selling out or whatever. But, you know, I just think of like that Twitter prompt like McDonald's Sprite would kill a peasant child from the 1600s. And I think what we're seeing here is the opposite, uh, where it's like classic 90s UK buzzband hype is just completely blowing

the minds of people in 2020. I mean, like, if this were like 1994, you would see like wet leg on the cover of NME as if they were like swayed or whatever, like, and maybe headlining Glassdenberry. I mean, like, this is what labels do. They sign a band, like, they sign a band if they think the demo, like has some potential. Wetlight clearly did, and they're working them pretty hard. This is why you get a manager. I, like, I don't know if it's, like, if you call them like an industry plant any more than like any band on any major label is an industry plant. Yeah, I mean, I understand the cynicism a little bit. I've been in the business, as they say, for about 20 years.

And I'm still sometimes dumbfounded when I see certain bands get that kind of hype. And I'm like, why did they get chosen? Like, is there like a shadowy cabal in a back room that decided that this was going to be the band that everyone was going to care about? I mean, I understand those feelings. In the case of Wetleg, though, I think it's pretty obvious, like why labels, and management people latched onto this band. They make pretty catchy music. The lyrics are funny and sometimes naughty.

The band members are photogenic. There's a lot of aspects of this band where I think if you were to design a buzz band for 2022 in a lab, it would look a lot like wet leg. You know, they bring a lot of things together that I think is going to appeal to listeners and especially the music press. You know, this is like catnip, I think, to music journalists, like a band like this. So, we'll talk about the music next week, but I think just looking at them on paper, they make sense as a buzz band. Is it inventing a guy?

I mean, because, I mean, like, this is no different to me than, like, say, France Ferdinand, you know, in 2003 or 2004 or something like that. I mean, like, I do agree that it's definitely some inventing some guy where, like, you know, Rolling Stone, New York Times, like, the biggest publications, some of the biggest, like, the most renowned publications in the world, they're, like, asking, like, who are these, like, haters who are against wet legs ascendance? It's, you know, it's, like, some, it's, again, like, oh, maybe a couple people online are, like, I don't know about this wet leg band. Something's up at Domino Records, you know? Yeah, I mean, the conversation around the band, it reminds me a little bit of, like, when the

strokes came out, because I think the strokes had a similar thing, very photogenic band, very catchy songs. They were a band out of New York. And after 9-11, there was going to be a lot of goodwill for nostalgia for the old New York. I mean, they just had really good timing. And I think whether you like the band or not, it makes sense from an industry perspective, like, why this band would be embraced at that particular moment in time. That was the Strokes moment in 2001. And I think with Wetleg, even if you listen to the record and you're like, I don't feel this, I don't think you can just say, oh, they have rich parents or, you know what I mean? Like all the sort of industry plant type conversations that go on.

I mean, I will say that I don't think it's possible to take a band that doesn't have something and just ram it through and make people like it. I mean... Yeah, because if you could, then it would happen way more often. Exactly. I mean, there has to be something about it that connects with people. and it doesn't matter how much hype you have behind it. How many New York Times profiles have there been of artists that just get laughed at online?

You know, like using the Jimpathy as the ultimate example of that, you know, just because you get a profile at Rolling Stone or New York Times, it doesn't mean that everyone's just a sheep and they're just going to like love it just because of the press coverage. There has to be something else there. And I have to say, like, I think Wetleg, just from, because I saw, I saw some people tweet about it. I actually tweeted about this briefly. I kind of talked about the music conspiracy aspect of this and how, you know, this is the kind of thing that makes people believe in music conspiracies. And I deleted it after about 10 minutes because I was like, I don't want to have this conversation online. Because it wasn't like I was accusing Wetleg of anything. It was just like I wanted to have this conversation.

I'm just asking questions. That's why, you know, I don't know if you're like this, but there's certain things that I would rather talk about on a podcast than on Twitter, just easier in our safe space here on Indycast. Yeah, it's not a safe space, Steve. I'm going to bring a therapeutic term. We are in a brave space right now. Oh, that's true.

That is true. Well, let's get to our mailbag segment. And thank you all again for writing us. We get lots of letters every week. That reminds me we should do a mailbag episode pretty soon because the, you know, emails are really stacking up. Not next week. Not next week, though. No, we have some stacked weeks for releases coming up ahead. But thank you all again for writing us and keep those emails coming in.

You can reach us at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. I really like today's question. Yes. I thought was a good one. Do you want to read this? Yeah. So this one comes from Ben in Philadelphia. Yeah, what's up? This guy asks about the first album that disappointed you. So, Ben has a question inspired by Steve's recently published journey through the Red Hot Chili Peppers discography, and that piece, Steve ranks Stadium Arcadium at the bottom of the pie, which I agree with. In fact, I often describe that album as the first album that ever disappointed me when it comes up in conversation. I was in eighth grade at the time of its release, and though I was actually not that much into the band, I really wanted to be because my friends were fans, and liking them made me feel cool.

I distinctly recall listening to the album by myself for the first time in my room after the first few of its 28th. songs thinking, huh, that isn't that good. I'm pretty sure that was the first time I was ever excited for now, only to be let down by it once I finally heard it. So do you remember the first time you had this experience of being underwhelmed by an album you were looking forward to? And some examples for him include codes and keys. I am easy to find, You're of the Black Rainbow by Coheed and Cambria and in the league

with Dragons by Mountain Goats. Okay. This is a great question. He's asking this like with the first time we were ever disappointed by an album, I guess for you and I It would be the era of going to the record shop You get the CD You peel off the

The cellophane Yeah You put the wall guaranteed Buyback sticker on it You throw it in your car stereo You're listening to it And you're like oh shit This isn't this isn't what I was hoping for

What's the album for you? Do you have a memory of being disappointed Yeah I mean I love this question because it's like it's not just a question about music. It's kind of like a cheaper than therapy sort of question of like, what taught you about this appointment? And, you know, I think that they're,

what Ben's getting at is like not so much like, oh, I bought Ugly Kid Joe's America's least wanted and not every song was as good as like neighbor. But it's more like, what was an album that kind of an end of the innocence? And for me, it wasn't like something that I bought. I'm like, oh, this isn't particularly good. or, you know, for me it was, guns and roses weren't like a definitive band for me early on.

Like they were kind of a tier below smashing pumpkins or Pearl Jam, but like, you know, if I watch MTV or the radio, there are a band that mattered a lot. And I feel like if we set out like a survey to our 40 plus listeners, I think half of them would probably say the spaghetti incident. Because not just because it's like a terrible album with like a half-ass cover and it was like a covers album but this is kind of what introduced me to uh concepts of contractual obligation right or that like a band can put out music they have absolutely no interest

in pushing or like justifying in any sort of way and i this was what 94 yeah i didn't have 18 dollars like i don't know what i don't know how much like you know leaves i had to rake or lawns i Mo to make that, to buy that shit? Yeah, I mean, that's the album that came to mind immediately for me too, was the spaghetti incident, 94, coming after Usualusion 1 and 2. It really is like one of the most half-assed albums ever. Certainly to come after, you know, like these epics that were huge hits and not even trying to follow it up in like a real kind of way, just putting out this coverage record.

And then that was their last record for 15. years and then they did Chinese democracy that finally came out. I think that was 08 or 09. That was 2008. So a long gap after the spaghetti incident. Yeah, I think actually there's a fair number of people that would

also say, talking about guns and roses, they might also say the usual illusion albums would maybe count as disappointments. I know for me, I don't think I've ever looked forward to an album more than those albums. Like as a young man. you know, 13, 14 years old.

There was so much hype for those records. I remember you could be mine. Did you sleep outside the records still for it? I was too young for that. I mean, I was still at the age, like, where I had to, like, talk my mom and driving me to Best Buy to get a... Actually, I bought the cassette.

I didn't even get the CD. I don't think I had a CD player yet. That is not an album that you want to have and not have, like, a skip option. Yeah, it was, but, you know, I was thinking about this that my relationship with album, was so different than as a kid in the 90s that I don't think I let myself be disappointed by albums.

No. Like, and these are albums that I love. I think that they're legitimately good, but like a record, like, Be Here Now or like Smashing Pumpkins Adore, you know, like albums that I think for a lot of people were disappointments after, you know, these big hit classic records. You know, as you said, like, I spent so much money on those albums that I was going to like them no matter what. I was going to commit myself to liking them. And they were also the only albums I, you know, the new records that I had at that time, like you buy a CD. That's like your new album, at least for a week, if not longer. So you listen to it all the time.

Even if you do feel disappointed, there is an element of Stockholm syndrome that sets in. And you're like, I'm going to love this album no matter what. The beatings will continue until morale improves. That's like my experience with Be Here Now. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny. Like with Be Here Now and then they use your illusion albums, I think I love them when they came out. I went through a period then after that where I thought those albums weren't any good.

And then I came back around and I was like, no, I love those albums. So like now I love them again. But I think there was a time where I did think that they were disappointing. And then I just came around to them later. So I don't know. It's a convoluted answer to your question, Ben. But it's perfect for like the meat of this episode, particularly with the red hot chili pepper. Yes.

I mean, I love that you referenced that red hot. Chili Peppers piece and that you agreed with me that you did that stadium arcadium is their worst record because I got a lot of blowback for that a lot of people a lot of stadium arcadium defenders out there the fact that we're talking about like albums that are extremely fucking long and like yet you love them because uh you invested so much in it I mean these people I guarantee you that they were 13 or 14 years old right they bought stadium arcadium on CD because people I think still kind of sort of did that in 2006. And yeah, we just have different gradients of Red Hot Chili Peppers fans because I think that

when you released your piece, a lot of people were talking about like how almost to a man that they got into them at 13 or 14 years old. Exactly. And I think the thing I realized in the response to my list, and by the way, you could see this on Uprocks.com, I did, I wrote almost 6,000 words on the discography of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. and I walked through each album. And the thing that really came through with the red-out chili peppers is that the album,

like, if you like that band, the albums that came out from when you were 11 to 16 are the ones you like the most. And for millennials, it's Californication to Stadium Arcadium. For me, and I'm guessing you, it's like Mother's Milk to One Hot Minute. And those were my top three albums. I had blood sugar, sex magic at number one, Mother's Mood. milk number two, one hot minute number three. And there were a lot of people were like, how are you putting one hot minute in

your top three? And I'm like, have you heard warped? Have you heard what Dave Navarro does on that song? That's like, you know, cost of admission right there. And also, it's too long because I think every Chili Peppers album is too long other than maybe like, I think Mother's Milk

is actually like a perfect length. But even like blood sugar sex magic is too long. But like, Stadium Arc stadium is like way, way too fucking long. I mean, I think it's the long, like, the longest double album. I'm, like, it's not even like the, you know,

like melancholy where you get like the filler, like the obvious filler. Like, it's like 28 songs that are almost exactly the same. Yeah, and like melancholy, that first disc... It's way fucking better, but... The first disc of melancholy, I think, is pretty much perfect.

I mean, there might be like one or two songs that are okay, but I think The second disc is spottier, but the first disc is perfect. But anyway, not to get distracted talking about the pumpkins. We should say, we're talking about the Red Hot Chili Peppers because they have a new album out today. It's called Unlimited Love. It's their first album in six years. And it's their first album with guitarist John Farshante since Stadium Arcadium in 2006.

So a momentous chili peppers release. By the way, can I say this is the Sleasio? meat that we've ever had in an episode. We're talking about the chili peppers and machine gun Kelly. So like I said, I wrote 6,000 words expounding on the chili peppers. I'm curious, like, what's your take on them in 2022 in terms of their history and your feelings about this record? Yeah, I just want to point out before we go any further.

I'm, like, looking at, like, the, I looked at the all-music guide, like, album themes tab for Mother's Milk, and it was cool and cocky, guys night out, partying, free. freedom, T-G-I-F. And then if you look at like the getaway, it's like relationships, breakups, and so forth. But yeah, look. That's a great, that kind of sums it up perfectly, I think. Exactly. So, I mean, with the R chili peppers, yes, I was 13 years old in 1993.

So Blood Sugar, Sex, Magic was a big album. And, you know, I've gone through like waves with this band because I love chili peppers as many my friends did in like middle school. One Hot Minute came out. Like, I don't know. I thought that album was like really badass when I first heard it. And then I grew up to learn that, oh, Dave Navarro actually kind of sucks. And, you know, this album's like a, you know, it's like a whack-ass Jane's Addiction record.

But for me, like, and then California Cation came out. And like, it was so fucking unavoidable. Like, I worked at a Ben & Jerry's where we played the Rock Radio Station. Like, it was like nonstop kryptonite. and Californication singles. So I'm like, whatever. I liked a few songs on, by the way, I liked Stadium Arcadium enough

to, like, give it a C-minus at Stylist magazine. You're too generous. Too generous. Yeah, I know. I mean, Danny California? I mean, come on. Stadium, Arcadium. Are you going to justify that song?

Like, I can't believe we didn't bring that up in the episode. That's terrible song. Or snow? That song's Snow. Heyo? I don't remember. Like, you have a real bone to pick with that song? I don't remember it being that

bad. It's awful. Okay, I'll have to check it out again. It's like the one instance where the chili peppers are worse than sublime. Like they're trying to write like a sublime song and they just fail at it. Yeah, so I mean, I don't know. Like I live

in California. I don't think that's made me any more amenable to liking this band than someone who lives in Minnesota. But I think with the rad chili peppers, they're at a point where it's like, when you talk about a new album of them. Like, you're not really talking about the new album. Like, you're just talking about, like, the legacy of them. And, you know, ever, since they make records only,

like, four, five, six years, you can get to have the same conversations all over again about, are they actually underrated? Maybe they're overrated. Because I think, like, with the mailback question, I've swung from being in the, like, in the moment, I'm definitely like, yeah, this band kind of sucks. But, like, when they're not making music, I'm thinking. I'm thinking, thinking, this would be kind of fun to defend them. You know, it's like they worked with Gang of Four and George Clinton, and they actually made a good Stevie Wonder cover. Maybe they're, like, low-key, more influential and, like, quote-unquote indie than some other bands.

But the prospect of sitting down to listen to a Red Hot Chili Pepper song or an album, particularly one that's like 75 minutes, like, I have barely enough time to listen to music I actually like these days. I am so profoundly impressed that you revisited like 12 Red Hot Chilil. Like I know you've like ranked Neil Young and Bob Dylan albums. And it feels like even if they've released 50 albums, there's like just more Red Hot Chili Peppers music out there. Yeah. Yeah, because you're right.

Every album, especially, you know, post-Blochicker Sex Magic. It's so fucking love. Yeah, there's no quality control. They're just throwing. seems like every song that they wrote during the period. Although I do know that there was this album that they were working on with Josh Klinghoffer, like when Klinghoffer got fired. And supposedly they had like dozens of songs written for that project.

I like the idea of Josh Klinghofer putting that on his LinkedIn page, like Red Hot Chili Peppers. That would be pretty awesome. Oh, what happened with that, you know? I mean, this new album, I have to say I was slightly disappointed by it, which seems insane to say. Because I don't know. I don't know you could be disappointed by a red hot chili. Yeah, I don't know what the expectations are for a red hot chili peppers record in 2022. I mean, this kind of feels like, okay, they're in their like bridges to Babylon era where they're putting out a record so that they can say that they're still a active creative band.

But it's really about the stadium tour that they're going to do this summer, which by the way, not to, you know, no pun intended. But I would go see the stadium tour. That seems like that would probably be a pretty fun show, especially if the strokes were opening. Yeah, they got some good opener. They have like some crazy. They got Heim. They've got like Anderson Park. I'm trying to think of who else.

It's like a long list. Isn't St. Vincent? St. Vincent is there. There's like a bunch of other. I don't think it's like on every show. I think they're having a different opener on each date. It's not going to be like chili peppers. Thundercat, I think, is on there.

Thundercat. That'd be a good one. Yeah, St. Vincent, ASAP, ASAP, Rocky. Beck, I believe is... Last time I saw you, you too, Beck was the opener for that show, too. Like, Beck has just become the opener for Gen X,

rock bands who still play stadiums. Like, that's Beck's new role, which is kind of an interesting development for him. But, yeah, I mean, Californication really is the fulcrum of their career where I think their audience now knows very little about the albums

that came before that. Certainly, like, the 80s album. seemed to be totally, you know, like in a black hole. Like at least, again, judging by the reaction to my column, because, like, I actually had the 80s albums, like, in the top five, like, freaky, styly, and uplift, mofo party plan. Like, I think Halel Slovak, their original guitarist, was actually, like, a pretty cool musician.

And I think Frasante definitely took his style and then elaborated on it. You know, like, Slovak never had the opportunity to do that because he died. in 1988. And then Frasante joined when he was 18 years old and was a student of him. But then it is interesting to me, you know, because I think the chili peppers are still regarded as like a funk rock band. But if you look at their biggest hits, they've really de-emphasized that side of their personality.

I mean, like they really became known post-Californication for these cautionary ballads about, you know. Being, Anthony Keynes. Yeah, being Anthony Keenan is basically, like, you know, doing... Sewing, reaping, yeah. Doing drugs on the dark side of Los Angeles. I mean, that's become their big theme. And I think on the new record, you know, it's a very mid-tempo record.

There's like a lot of... There's even like a piano ballad. Yeah, a single, yeah. Which is crazy that you would have that. That's actually the best of the singles. I mean, that tells you something. It seems like, I mean, because again, I think when you think of the chili peppers, you think about Flea First.

He's probably the most famous guy in the band, but it really feels like they're really driven by the guitar players historically. Like, whoever's playing guitar in the Chili Peppers really sets the tone. I was actually thinking this morning that there's like an analogy to be made to Fleetwood Mac and the Red Hat Chili Peppers because...

Okay. You have Peter Green in their early years where they're more of a blues band. Then you have like Bob Welsh, where they're this kind of sleepy soft rock band. And then Lindsay Buckingham comes in as a guitar player and then they kind of go into the stratosphere, Lindsay Buckingham being the John Farshante of Fleetwood Mac.

But you know what I mean? Because I feel like what Frasante is doing is really what defines them publicly, even more than Flee, at this point. Like those minor key... Even more than Anthony Keatis? Well, Ketus too, but, I mean, Kitas is like a whole other story, but...

Yeah, I guess he's like a constant, you know? I just mean, like, in terms of the music, where it's not really about the functional. key influences. It's more about these sort of minor key variations on Little Wing that Frasciante could just endlessly conjure in his career. That is what really drives them forward. So I don't know. Like on this record, there's just not that one or two, like those one or two did undeniable singles that kind of power a record like Stadium Arcadium or, by the way, made those albums so big in spite of like having all these other songs that maybe aren't as well-known.

This just kind of has all the filler and none of the kind of standout tracks that those records have. Yeah, I have to bring this up as far as like filler because I'm like scrolling through the Spotify of like Red Hot Chili Peppers just seeing like how much the like how many of their deep cuts get played. By the way, on the on the Spotify version of Stadium Arcadium, after 28 songs, there is a, I quote, audio commentary for Stadium Arcadium short version that is 29 minutes. Do you how many plays this has? Four and a half million. So, yeah, I mean, that is as much evidence as possible as, like, Stadium Arcadium's Long Tail Success. But, yeah, I mean, with this album, I think that the Red Hot Chili Peppers, despite the fact they make, like, 70-minute, like, just ungodly long albums there. I mean, I know they made what hits back in the day.

Like, I had that one. But I don't think they've made a greatest hits album since. And, like, I can think of very few bands that are best. better suited to a greatest hits album than the Wia Chili Peppers. I mean, like, the discrepancy between the, like, the deep cuts and, like, the singles is just, for a few bands, is it that high? And, you know, I'm just, I mean, do you remember happiness loves company, especially in Michigan, on Mercury?

Like, I'm just reading off deep cuts from their previous albums, which you listened to. I mean, does. Oh, yeah. I can, I mean, well, those are all from state. Acadium, Arcadium. So, I mean, that, I mean, you could at some point just start reading fake song titles, and I would probably buy it. There is a Chili Pepper's greatest hits record that came out in the early 2000s.

Like, I think probably came out after, by the way. But, yeah, they could do another one. And that does seem like a good format for them. Yeah, I mean, they really became like a big radio band. I mean, and that was Californication. Yeah, like an institution. Which I would have ranked that album higher on my list, but it sounds awful.

Like, you know, like, the loudness wars, like, that whole thing? I worked at radio back then. Like, everything sounds like complete shit. Yeah. If not californication, a hybrid theory is, like, maybe the definitive example of that. Well, I was reading about the loudness wars as I was doing my piece. And, like, they talk about californication and Death Magnetic, the Metallica record as being, like, two of the worst offenders. Both produced by Rick Rubin, by the way.

Yeah. terrible producer, like at least in recent years. Yeah, but it's like you listen to Blood Sugar Sex Magic. That album sounds great. Oh, it sounds awesome. And like those early night, like wildflowers, the Tom Petty record, the Johnny Cash records, he was good for a while. And then I don't know what happened.

Like by the end of the 90s, everything he's doing is super compressed. It just sounds like a rusty shovel going over gravel, you know? Yeah. It's so like just garbled and crunchy. It makes you feel as if like you actually did download this off like line wire or something like that. Right. Well, let's talk about machine gun Kelly here. Which is like kind of lineage of chili peppers.

I was to say. I feel like there's a linkage between the two. I could see that. I could see that for sure. And we're talking about this because I feel like we have to. We've talked about machine gun Kelly in the past. I think we promised to talk about this record. I mean, with the chili peppers, we're really straining the indie.

part of our indie cast title. Machine Gun Kelly, we might be totally obliterating it. But this is a big rock record. This came out last Friday. We're talking about it now because we did not get advances of this album. We're listening to it in real time, just like all you. It's called Mainstream Sellout. It's the follow-up to the big hit album.

Tickets to My Downfall from 2020. This is a situation where I wonder if my low expectations are causing me to be too kind to this album because whenever it's on, I don't mind Machine Gun Kelly. He does not bother me in the same way that he seems to bother some people that I read online. I mean, I tend to laugh when I see older millennials who I've seen defend, you know, Blink 182 or Aver Levine

or even Good Charlotte. And then they get really happy about Machine Gun Kelly. And I'm like, do you... Someone think of the integrity of pop punk. I know. It's like, do you not see that this is the same thing? This is the modern equivalent of that. And maybe there's some doubt about his sincerity because he used to be a rapper and now he's doing pop punk and maybe you feel like, oh, he's just jumping on a bandwagon here.

But I don't know. What do you think of this record? Like a song like Emo Girl, for instance, I can't be mad at that song. I'm not putting that on for pleasure, really. But when it's on, it's fine. It's fine for what it is. And, you know, I wrote this series many years ago for Grantland. It was called The Winners History of Rock and Roll.

And I wrote about the seven most popular bands of their respective eras, like Bon Jovi. I wrote about Lincoln Park, Kiss, bands like that. Aerosmith, I did a piece on Aerosmith. And the thesis of that piece was, you need these. big, dumb rock bands to act as gateways for younger fans to hopefully get into more obscure rock music. And like, if I were to write that piece today, I would write about Machine Gun Kelly for 2022, because I think that's what he's doing. So that would be my defense of him. I think that, you know, 11-year-olds, they're not going to be listened to Soul Glow necessarily. You know,

they may listen to Machine Gun Kelly and then they're then getting into punk and then they'll eventually get to that stuff. Yeah, Machine Gun Kelly is the entry. point to obscure pop punk acts such as Blink 182 and Good Charlotte. But I mean, yeah, I think you're coming to a point where it's like, how can you possibly be mad? Like, how could you possibly be mad at Machine Gun Kelly? I mean, like, when you think about like everything that is just like irritating and about like music discourse and so forth, like Machine Gun Kelly kind of exists just so outside of it, um, that it, it, it feels like, when people do kind of clown on him,

he's like kind of a substitute for the thing that, like, they actually are mad about. He's just, like, a safe place to project, you know, whatever, whatever pisses you off, which, you know, I think leads to that album cover that. It looks like he's changed that album cover, the one where he's getting, like,

neon tomatoes thrown at him. Yeah. Which, by the way, is he really a sellout? I don't feel like that's something he's accused of. I don't think, it's not like he had integrity and then, you know, made this kind of music. He's never really had integrity, as far as I know. He's more of like a bandwagon jumper.

I feel like that would be the thing you would accuse him of if you wanted to... The thing about the bandwagon jumping thing is I think he kind of created his own bandwagon because... Right. Like, tickets to my downfall, like, now granted, I have like a very distorted view of time and space nowadays, but I think we've said this before on this show where tickets to my downfall is like one of the most important records to be released. in the pandemic era. Like, I don't remember a lot about, like, trends from 2019 to 2020, but I definitely know that, like, Travis Barker didn't seem as on the present as he does now.

I know that Willow Smith didn't make a pop punk album before this. I know Olivia Rodriguez wasn't around before this. And, yeah, tickets to my downfall, like, really was prescient in terms of, like, anticipating pop punk being thrust as, like, a very major note. of pop music. And I don't know, like, why him, you know, I don't know what about that album really resonated with people. But, like, you mentioned, like, 11-year-old kids. Like, are 11-year-olds listening to Machine Gun Kelly? Because, I mean, I think his concepts of, like, what is, I guess, you know, trolly or antagonistic to parents are, like, kind of based on very older ideas, you know?

I don't, I mean, I honestly have no idea. I guess I'm just, speculating that based on what I perceive a pop music listener to be. Okay. And, I mean, do you think older people are listening to this? I don't know. I mean, somebody clearly is, but... You think, like, older rock guys are, like, you know, people that would have, like, Buck Cherry 10 years ago and now they're looking at Machine Gun

Kelly is the new standard bear? Is that the audience? If Machine Gun Kelly had songs as good as lit up and, like, to the movie, for the movies, man, like, this episode... have taken a far different tack. That shit... I mean, do you really think that, like, rebellion, though, as a concept has changed over time? I feel like it's still pretty constant in terms of, like, what gets teenagers going.

I don't know if it's any different now than it was in the 90s or in the 70s. I mean, that's, like, why there still is punk music at all, because people still look at, you know, having a lot of tattoos and earrings and loud guitars as being a signifier of, you know, striking against... the man or whatever, you know, like that stuff wouldn't exist if that didn't still have some sort of power as like an archetype of rebellion, right? Yeah, I mean, it has some, but like, I mean, a part of me thinks that, like, I remember, yeah, this stuff would have really, like, yeah, I'm going to listen to this to piss off my parents and, you know, had it come out in 1995, which it very well could have, but, you know, with the internet being what it is, like, I just wonder if like this kind of rebellion, this

sort of like punk idealism like seems almost kind of like ancient to a 15 year old right now. I don't know. Maybe I should, maybe we just need to have like a guess that like where we find like 15 year olds just like talk about these things rather than us kind of guessing about them. I mean, you still see I, you know, you go to a mall or whatever. I feel like I still see kids who dress like the way my friends dressed when I was a kid. You know, like if you gravitate to this kind of music. there is a sort of traditional archetype that hasn't changed that dramatically.

And if you are a person who finds this kind of thing corny, well, then you're not going to listen to this kind of music. Maybe you're listening to 100 gecks or whatever. But clearly there are people who this resonates with. And you could have a song like Emo Girl. And it means something to them. So I think the proof is in the pudding. The fact that you can make this kind of music,

and have it make an impact on the pop market, it just speaks to how some archetypes are timeless. You know, they just still work, even if you think that they shouldn't work. Is machine gun, like, have we reached peak machine gun Kelly, or are we looking at, like, because I mean, I think with, you know, the Riot Fest booking, or no, the Lalapalooza booking, people were kind of wondering,

it's like, okay, is this, like, is machine gun Kelly, like, actually on his downfall or is he still on an upward swing? Like, I don't know. Like, in 2024, is Machine Gun Kelly going to be bigger than he is now? Like, I feel in some ways this is maybe like the, his like, you know, his version of antics, if you will. I don't know. I wonder if he could be like a softer version of Kid Rock, like where he makes a rock

record and then he can make more. He is definitely going country at some point. Exactly. He's going to do like a Cheryl Crowe duet at some point. but then he can kind of go back to hip hop. He doesn't have to have fidelity to any one genre. I mean, I think that's an advantage for him. I mean, even on this record, mainstream sellout,

there's like a Little Wayne song. There's like two, right? Is there two? Okay. I think so. I actually like the Little Wayne song. Yeah, I didn't mind it. Little Wayne was an innovator in like bad pop punk slash rap with rebirth, you know? that era when like Lil Wayne stopped one of the best runs in rap history because he wanted to skateboard.

That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, Lil, you know, again, this record, mainstream cell-out, when it's on, I don't mind it. I will not listen to this for pleasure because I feel way too old to be listening to this. But again, I do think there's a place for a record like this. I do think that he probably appeals to like a young audience. And I think some of those people will grow up to be music writers, and they're going to write think pieces for Pitchfork in 2032 about how tickets to my downfall was a defining record of their youth.

And it's going to get like a 9.5 on the pitchfork review. I believe the children of the future. Yep, that's going to happen. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? Yeah, so today, a out of the episode. by a band called Pup comes out. I know that if you're an Indycast listener, you're,

there's like a very good chance you're into this band. And also, um, there's a piece up on the ringer, uh, that published on Thursday where I interviewed the band. It's one of many, many, many interviews with this band that are coming out, which, you know, good for them. Pups, a band that's really grinded it out over the past decade, like played a billion shows and gotten, you know, pretty big organically. And now they're playing Coachella and they're, and they're, font is bigger than that of Emo Knight, which is the biggest sign of success for a rock band. But their new album, The Unraveling of Pup, the Band is out. It's produced by Peter Cadiz, who is like a indie cast legend.

He does The National, Interpol, Gang of Youths. He did the Japan Droids album where they started to play with synths and, you know, love songs. And, you know, like, every Pup record that comes out, like, I think to myself, like, is this it for me with this band? Like, have I gotten my fill of Pup? I don't know. And then they come out with a record that at first I'm like, is it more of the same? But at the end, it ends up being like, oh, yeah,

they've somehow extended their run. I like this album. They continue to do interesting things. So I'm really stoked that, you know, I'm really stoked about this album. Like they somehow managed to be pup, but do so in just a slightly different way that gets me interested in them all over again.

It's sort of like Beach House in that regard. So, yeah, if you want to pup, Bowland that sort of reminds you of Beach House, which, as we said in that previous episode, according to Apple Music, Beach House sort of reminds you of ACDC, then the unraveling of Pup the band. It hasn't really made me love it the way I love Dream is over or morbid stuff, but I'm hoping I get there. It's definitely them branching out sonically in a way that they haven't before.

So kudos to them for making a new kind of Pup record. I want to recommend one of my own things this week. I didn't interview with Brian Fallon of the Gaslight Anthem that is publishing on Friday. We haven't talked about this yet in our episode, but the Gaslight Anthem announced that they are returning to full-time status as a band. They're going to be going on tour this fall, and they're also going to be putting out a new record. And I talked about that with Brian. They're still in the early stages of that. He's writing songs.

He's hoping to get into the studio later this year and get something out by 2023. But I always like talking to Brian. He's always a very candid interview. And just talking about his own concerns about now being a guy in his 40s. At one point he was talking about, like, am I going to look silly jumping around with a rock and roll band at this age? But I'm personally excited to see what they do. I've enjoyed Brian's solo records.

And I'm a big guest light anthem fan. I was listening to the 59 sound this morning. It's classic. It's such a great record. And I'm excited to hear Brian write rock and roll songs again. He's had this Americana period that, again, I think he's put out some good music. But I just love hearing him write rousing rock songs. So I'm curious to hear how that develops.

So yeah, check out my story on Up Rocks, my interview with Brian talking about the Gaslight Anthem Reunion. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.