Indiecast - Return Of Bright Eyes + The Killers

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

Bright Eyes and The Killers are both back with new albums. For Bright Eyes, 'Down In The Weeds, Where The World Once Was' is their first album in nearly a decade; for The Killers, 'Imploding The Mirage' is their first since the underwhelming 'Wonderful Wonderful' in 2017. On this week's episode of Indiecast, Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen sink their teeth into the new albums from these legacy indie acts, while recalling their respective careers and seeing where the new work fits into their catalogues.This week's recommendations: Now It's Overheard, The Good Life, and two new singles from Father John Misty.Sign up for the Indie Mixtape newsletter at uproxx.com/indieSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to delve into two albums that came out today by a couple of legacy acts, The Killers and Bright Eyes. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

There's nothing I love more than to feel as relevant as my 24-year-old self. or to have my 24-year-old self feel newly relevant. So I don't think I've looked forward to an episode that we've done more than this one. I am just sitting on 20 plus years worth of knowledge about these bands and I'm ready to feel cool again. Yeah, I was just gonna say that, like this is definitely a good week

for all the middle-aged music critics out there. You know, like, we have all this wealth of information about like Otts era music that we rarely get to use these days, but now it's going to come in handy. You know, I was, I mentioned a few times on Twitter referring, I think, to the killers as a legacy act and there were some people that were very shocked to hear that and maybe a little uncomfortable.

Is it weird for you at all to think of these bands like in those terms? Well, no, I mean, because when you think about like you two in 2000, like when all that we can leave behind came out, Like they'd been around since what, like 79? Like they're about as old as bright eyes was is right now. So I mean, or same with like Green Day, Duky. I mean, they were, you know, 2015.

They were 20 years old. So this, I mean, it's strange to call it a legacy act because when Fevers and Mirrors turned 20, like I turned 40. And so it like is at the exact midpoint of my life. So the fact that, like, they've accumulated this massive legacy as artists, but it's just weird for people such as ourselves to, like, recognize that, you know, we're twice as old maybe as we were when we first heard this stuff. Yeah, like the killers, you know, their first record, Hot Fuss came out in what, I think, 2004. That means that a baby that was born on the day that album came out is now, you know, ready to get their driver's license. Yeah.

So, you know, yes. So if you have a problem thinking of these bands as Legacy Acts, I'm sorry, but time marches on as always. You are getting old. We are all marching toward the grave. So we decide to accept it. That's a great bright eyes lyric, man. Exactly. So let's get to our first album.

We're going to be talking about the Killers album imploding the Mirage, which, by the way, is just a fantastic killer's album title. Yeah, it's not, like imploding always sounds like more. faux profound than exploding. And so that's really what makes this one hum. Yeah, it's the thinking man's exploding is exploding. It has it been confirmed? Because when I heard the title, I just thought of it as this sort of hokey metaphor. But then I saw someone made this point that like they could be talking about the casino,

which I think was demolished. I don't know if that's been confirmed as a reference because when someone said that, I was like, oh, maybe the killers have outsmarted me here. Like I think of myself as being smarter than the killers, but maybe they're smarter than me. Anyway, the killers, just to give a little background, this is a band they formed in 2001. As I said before their debut record, Hot Fuzz. Is it Hot Fuss? That's such a weird.

It's hot fuss. Hot Fuzz, I think, was the movie. Right. Okay. But when you say hot fuss, at least when I say it, it always comes out sounding like hot fuzz. So, in any rate, yeah. Yeah, I'm not talking about the Edgar Wright film. I'm talking about the Killers record.

comes out in 2004, and of course that's the album that has Mr. Brightside on it, which is one of the most overplayed rock songs. Karaoke classic. Yes, of the early 21st century. Their next record is Samstown, which at the time was very critically maligned, but I feel like in retrospect has become sort of a trendy choice for people to say is their favorite Killers record. I've always enjoyed that record.

Essentially, the Killers were this huge band in the Oats, and then like in the 2010s, like a lot of bands from that era, They kind of fell off a cliff and they put out a series of records that weren't all that well received, including Battleborn and the record Wonderful Wonderful, which came out in 2017. I actually reviewed that record. And in my review, I said that to me it seemed like the killers were on their last legs. Because their bassist at the time was backing out of the band. Subsequent to that, the guitar player now is essentially a part-time member of the group. So we're only talking about two people, Brandon Flowers and the drummer Ronnie Vanucci.

The guy with awesome beard. Awesome beard. Yeah, those two guys are holding down this brand, essentially. That is still a very profitable touring operation, you know, when touring presumably gets back into play. But now they have this album imploding The Mirage. Before we get to the album, I'm just curious for you, like, what are your feelings about the killers generally? And what were your expectations going into this album? I mean, I think back to when I first came across them in 2004,

like I was very much in the scope of what they called glamorous indie rock and roll, very much into all the, you know, cooler indie acts. I was really starting to like, you know, start to dive deeper into what, like, indie and DIY mean. So like most people in that realm, I saw the killers as kind of the end. endpoint of the New Rock Revolution. If you took all the things that were happening in New York and combined it with more of like a British sensibility as far as pop and like this more flamboyant sort of styleization, the killers were what you ended up with.

And I think the way they were kind of seen by the guy, you know, indie snob such as myself is, you know, the strokes were Nirvana. These guys were essentially Bush. Like they were, they had, they had this real like photogenic foe. profound hymbo of a frontman. They had a ton of UK press and they were going to have hits. Like that was inevitable. But in history would eventually judge them harshly and we'd all look back and have a laugh.

And I think that as much as they were hyped up by the British press and maligned by, you know, people in New York, I think it's worth, can I take a second to reflect on Meet Me in the Bathroom? I think we're going to like talk about this in maybe half of our episodes because it's for people such as ourselves. This is like the totem. It's a book about, and it's a book about like New York Rock Revolution from 1996, 2011. Essentially, you had a bunch of like privileged art school kids in New York arguing about the real soul of New York. And the killers were seen as these kind of hacky, almost like kind of country bumpkin types, even though they were from Las Vegas. Because, A, you know, they worked as valets and casinos. and B, they actually really wanted to be popular.

Right. And that was, and even in 2004, that was still, like, people weren't kind of prepared for that. Yeah, and you listen to that record, the first one, which I'm going to, it's going to sound like I say hot fuzz, but it's hot fuss. I think in that book, Meet Me in the Bathroom, there's a line in there from, like, one of the strokes talking about, like, why, you know, they didn't understand, like, why Mr. Brightside was such a huge hit. and they felt like, oh, this is a song, this should have been like a stroke song. Like, why aren't our songs being played on the radio? And, but you listen to Mr. Brightside,

and look, I love the strokes, but I think it's clear from a production standpoint and just a sort of a tunefulness standpoint, like why Mr. Brightside was the radio hit and why hard to explain was played on MTV and college radio, but not so much on pop radio. Yeah, you can do Mr. Brightside of karaoke. You can belt it out.

It's got Eric Roberts in the video, but like a stroke song is much harder to do at karaoke, even though it's easier to sing technically speaking. And I think that's what the killers brought, this sense of theatricality and flamboyance, that obviously people who are still very caught up in indie aesthetics absolutely loathe. Yeah, it's funny because like I think this perspective

that you're talking about right now, this sort of like knee-jerk rejection of them initially that came from indie snops at the time, It's not something that I find is true of people who are like younger than us. Like when I talk to like people who are now in their 20s and maybe even early 30s, it's similar in a way to like where it was maybe like for people our age, like when Stone Temple Pilots came along. Like we just accepted Stone Temple Pilots as being good off the bat.

We didn't know that it wasn't cool to like them. And I think that was also true of, you know, younger millennials who heard the killers. It was just like when they presented them. Yeah. When they presented themselves as, you know, this sort of. Springsteen U2 hybrid on Samstown. I think a lot of people of that age group took it at face value. And it's always interesting to me with the killers because when they came along, I

loved their first record. And to me, that was the album that I would play before I went out to the bars. That was when I was going out to bars all the time. And I was single and it was like a great party record. And the image that they had at that time was that they were like the new Duran Duran. You know, like they were just sort of like sleazy fun pop rock. band. And then they remade themselves into this more earnest Heartland Rock band, which I think sonically worked really well. Like, when you're, when you were young, like that is probably

my favorite killer song, like from Samstown. But like some of the lyrics and some of the way they presented themselves, I thought was always kind of awkward. I always felt like they kind of went down the wrong path by sort of aspiring to being profound rather than just being this sort of sleazy, fun band. And circling back to this new record, imploding the Mirage, I have to say that one of the things I really love about this record, and I guess this is where I say that imploding the Mirage is probably my biggest surprise of the year, because I did not even expect to listen to this record, really.

I didn't expect to care about it. After wonderful, wonderful, I thought, this band is done. I don't need to pay attention to this band. But I decided to give the promo stream, you know, just sort of a cursory listen. And I hadn't even really paid attention to the singles, really, from the album. But the singles from this record especially, I think, are easily the best thing the killers have done since Samstown.

Now, I know that's such a rock critic thing to say. It's like since Samstown, but like my own soul's warning and caution in particular, they just have that classic killers thing of going to the brink and maybe even going over the line of ridiculousness, like just being way over the top, very sort of triumphant sounding and bombastic, but making it work. Like, those songs are just so rousing and exhilarating. I found myself, you know, just totally getting wrapped up in this record. And, you know, I know, I know you and I have talked about this with Killers Records.

They tend to be pretty front-loaded. And I think that's definitely true of this album. But the singles on this record just delivered so much for me in a little. way of just pure escapism. Like, you know, we're so used to talking about records right now, sort of reflecting the reality of the pandemic. Who wants to hear music that reflects the reality of the pandemic? We live in reality. We know what the reality is. I want to escape the reality sometimes. And I think this record for me, there's, there's way better albums that have come out this year, but like the moments on this record, like the moment where Lindsay

Buckingham's guitar solo comes in on caution is like such a redact. ridiculously fun rock moment. I just got swept up in it. I mean, I think for me, the way the killers have been for the past couple years, like, I've also not checked for the singles. It was, it's one of those like albums where there's like six singles and like the out, the album rollout has like been for six months. And, you know, I just kind of ignored or whatever. But what happened is I was walking past like 7-Eleven a few months ago and I heard this guy just listening to. caution on the radio. I'm like, this is, this is good. It's like, this, this is the new killer song that people have told me is actually pretty good. And when I, like, actually pretty good is similar to

like what you said, best in Samstown, you know, grain of salt. But I had to kind of check to see, like, is this, like, I consider the killers be kind of like Weezer where they just make enough hits to maintain relevancy for a while. And people get like kind of overexcited when it's like not terrible. And so I went on Spotify, like check the singles, which are that there are many and many remixes. And, and I'm like, wait, this is actually, this is like actually good. And I think what it does for me is calls back not just to like Samstown, the grandiosity of it, but also hot fuss. I think that one of the most fun things about the killers is that you can never quite tell how self-aware they are.

Absolutely. Like you said, they push to the brink of ridiculous and then go overboard. I think that they, like, I don't want to ascribe too many pretensions to them. Like, maybe they, this batch of songs was just the best one they've come up with in a while or they just had the best people behind them. But I do think that what they did here, I mean, the War on Drugs comparisons, like, are inevitable. They got the guy on the album. You know, they got Lindsay Buckingham on the album.

And I think what the killers did here was play to their strengths, which is that like with Samstown, they played on the YouTube, Bruce Springsteen kind of earnestness bit. But when I was growing up like as a less than 10 years old and I heard like Bruce on the radio, I heard, but also like Bon Jovi and Journey, I think the killers kind of approach all of that as like fair game like all kind of playing the same game of like this small town person just trying to like get out and um you know like don't stop believing is you know is just as powerful to people as like born in the USA or living in a prayer like this is the this is where the killers operate like this kind of heartland rock but it was filtered through the fact that they're like

from Las Vegas and just like shamelessly commercial and I think that their ability to be that ridiculous and be this anachronistic kind of rock band, like, they're playing for these, you know, like, they're the kind of band who was like headlining festivals that got canceled, you know, for like low ticket sales or whatever, or like riot fest or like, I'll do respect to those, but it's like not like Coachella or one that tries to play itself off as cool. And they're carrying on like that stuff still exists. And, you know, I respect that. Well, and they're also like a pretty big. arena band now? I've talked to a bunch of people that have seen them like in 2018 and 2019,

which again was in that window where you're, you know, that was like in the, again, they're on their last legs. Like that's what I thought like that period. But they've definitely graduated to that status of like they have enough hits where they don't really need any more hits. I think that they could tour on the strength of like their... Not fuss for the rest of their lives. Pretty much. Yeah. They can do that. And like, but I think an album. like this, it does give them a little extra juice, and I think it probably will maybe bring some younger people into the fold, perhaps. You'll hear this song, and you'll be curious about some of those

older records, and you'll want to get into those. I want to go back to something you said earlier about the War on Drugs, because I have to say that, like, well, I think that the influence of the most recent War on Drugs record, a deeper understanding, I think it's pretty profound on this album. Like, if you listen to, again, my own soul's warning, caution, some of the other songs, I mean, they sound a lot like the War on Drugs. And it should be mentioned that Sean Everett, who was one of the producers of that album, he's a key contributor to imploding the Mirage, not just as a producer, but he was like co-writing a lot of the songs.

I think he actually co-wrote caution. Adam from the War on Drugs is also on this record. He plays on the song Blowback. But I think Sean Everett is definitely a crucial contributor, as is Jonathan Rado from the band Foxyton. Ah, yes. Who's actually become like a, like a pretty great producer. Like he's, I know he contributed to like to the last, uh, I believe he was on the last

Father John Misty record. I think he contributed to the Way's blood record, Titanic Rising. Yeah. He's become like, all those, all those like real studio maven LA type records that sound like ultra classy. Like, Rado's going to be involved in it somehow. Right. And Sean Everett.

Like those are your guys. So, you know. I think those guys, I give them a lot of credit, I think, for how much I like this record. Certainly, if you're going to sound like a deeper understanding, I'm probably already halfway in the tank for your record. So they're definitely pandering to people like me who really want to hear a war on drugs record, and we're probably not going to get it until 2021. Hopefully it won't be any longer than that.

So it's like, well, the killers, they're going to step in with some War on Drugs methadone with this record, which I appreciate. So, I mean, I feel like we're both on the same page of this record. You made, I think, a great comparison to Weezer before. Yeah. I mean, this record probably does benefit from diminished expectations on both of our parts. But, right? I mean, we both, but we both liked it.

Yeah, I legit like it. I mean, will I revisit it ever after this recording? I couldn't tell you. But, you know, if I, I could say like yeah, I would probably see a killer's live show right now. I would like to see how this stuff comes off. I mean, is it the same as hot fuss where the singles are just like so far beyond the deep cuts that they're not even worth mad? Like the disparity between a killer's single and a and a deep cut is just so vast. And I appreciate that as well. There's something like almost like

ario speedwagon about it, you know, where they just like, okay, we're going to get four singles, just fill out the rest. And yeah, I, like, I think that I could definitely listen, I can see myself running to caution or my own soul's warning. What more can I really ask for out of a killer's album in 2020, you know? Exactly. Plus, it's more fun. It's more fun when they're good. I think that's another thing. Like, like, like we, things are just more fun when they're, they're good. Like, when they're boring and just like, People are, like, ragging on them.

Like, that's no fun. It's, like, really easy to rag on them. Right. Exactly. And, you know, I have no expectation that, like, the next Killers record will be good. I suspect it will probably be more like wonderful, wonderful. But, yeah, it is fun to know that, like, hey, every now and then, they might produce a song that, like, you want to listen to 10 times in a row.

You know, you never know from this band. Okay. So now we're going to move on to the latest from Bright Eyes. And this also has a very, I guess, specific title to. the artist. It's called Down in the Weeds Where the World Once Was. Very wordy title, I feel like, although I guess compared to some bright-eyes titles,

that's like relatively succinct. Yeah. And also it's once again, like, gestures broadly, oh, wow, like this one's very prophetic as far as like, I mean, this album title has like been in the works probably since last year, but

yeah, it's very much a bright eyes or, like this bright eyes, they are back and exactly how you left them if I'm wide awake, it's morning is the last one you listen to. So let's give a little background on bright eyes. Of course, this band is best known for Connor Oberst,

the singer-songwriter in the band. He started making records in the 90s. This band, I think, really started to rise the prominence in 1998 or so. From like 1998 to like 2011, they put out a series of records, very acclaimed. They became one of the signature acts of indie rock in that time.

And Connor was joined in the band by multi-instrumentalist Mike Moggins. as well as piano player, trumpet player, and composer Nate Walcott. They went on hiatus in 2011 after the album The People's Key, which I feel like is probably the most maligned Bright Eyes record. Not true. Not true. I think Digital Ash and a Digital Earn is more. Like People's Key was probably more ignored than Maligned.

I actually liked the People's Key. I enjoyed it at the time when I revisit it. I tend to. I mean, I think lyrically, it's not his strongest record by a long shot, but I think musically, it's like a pretty enjoyable sort of pop alternative rock type record.

But anyway, the band went in hiatus after that. Conner Obers, of course, continued to make records on his own. Lately, I feel like he's been retreating to the safety of bands. Like he reunited his punk band, De Soparacitos in 2015. They put out a record called Paola.

Of course, he formed Better Oblivion Community Center with B.B. Bridgers, they put out their record in 2019, and here we are with Bright Eyes again. Before we talk about the record, I'm curious, like, for you, like, similar to the Killers, of course, you know, there's a long history that we both have with both of these bands. What are your feelings about Bright Eyes? And, like, were you clamoring for a Bright Eyes comeback? Yeah, I was in, like, Bright Eyes is just like one of those bands where I feel like I'm like I've written a lot about them and yet I probably shouldn't be allowed to because they are so intertwined with my sense of self as like a 20 year old like Connor Oberst and I are about a month apart in age.

We're both 40 and so you know when fevers and mirrors came out and particularly lifted after I graduated college they were reduced these endlessly quotable founts of wisdom with this just bombastic like it was like indie rock but like also like very highly orchestrated but it didn't sound like they were big budget um it's kind of the way i'm able to see what an act like mitsky or phoebe bridgers means to the current generation like when punisher came out i heard and i'm thinking myself okay if like twitter existed in 2002 this is what i would be like with lifted i would just be quoting it constantly it would i'd probably get some tattoos i mean even in 2002 Like, I was, I was really considering moving to Omaha because Saddle Creek was putting out,

not just like bright eyes, but cursive, the faint. You know, they also explain. Well, they're from L.A., but nonetheless, that they were. They put out of Saddle Creek record. They were on Salt Creek record. They, indeed. And it was, and it's an amazing record. But, yeah, it's just like, how does all this talent exist within, like, Omaha of all places,

as Adam Duritz said, somewhere in middle America? and like the community. By the way, I'm sorry. I got to say to you quick. Like, I just want to say that you referenced you two and County Crows in this episode. Oh, God, man. I feel like that, I feel like that's my, that's my bit and you've done them both. So I'm very proud.

I'm sorry to interrupt. I just had to. Spider-Man versus Spider-Man meme here. So. If you're making an Adam Duritz reference, I have to stop the presses, you know? That's very exciting for me. Anyway, please be done. But, but yeah, with bright eyes, uh, I feel like I kind of.

to diverge from the path in 2005 like like you said so much had built up about like conno versus like the next dillon like he just had this way of speaking to people his own age also very photogenic kind of this unfuntary kind of thing where he was also a bit druggy and a bit dangerous and um in 2005 he put out i'm wide awake it's morning and digital ashen a digital urn but i'm wide awake it's morning uh came out in 2005 like that's where he really kind of did the new dylan thing he moved to new york he wrote songs about the war and the folk tradition and it just sounded so phony to me not like i don't think he was trying to put on act per se but there was something just like kind of smug and

um just like kind of pretentious about it and i i just couldn't not believe my personal revulsion to it and that was i would say compounded by the fact that like everyone just completely aided up. Yeah, I was going to say, like, this is definitely your most contrarian bright-eyes opinion, because I feel like a lot of people, they look at, I'm wide awake, it's morning, not only as the best bright bright-eyed-eyes record, but as, like, one of the great indie rock records of that time. And I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's necessarily my favorite bright-eyes record, but I think it's a pretty strong album. But, so I, I appreciate that you take this stance that that album is actually garbage, or that it's like this sort of smug catering to, like, a

classic rock sensibility or something that he's rejecting what he was doing before. One thing I wanted to ask you, and this is something I posed in my review, a question, do you look at Bright Eyes as a band or do you look at it as basically like a nom to plume for Conor Oberst? Because I feel like for this record that's come out, this reunion record, if you read the stories, there's been a lot of interviews, a lot of profiles of the band that have come out. And the recurring theme in all of the profiles is that Bright Eyes is a band and that this new album is their most collaborative effort yet.

You know, there's as many interviews with Walcott and Mogus as there is with Oberst. And I know that for me, like, I've always just looked at Bright Eyes as kind of Oberst. In the same way that I look at Bonnie Verr as Justin Vernon, even though there's obviously other people in that band and he has crucial collaborators that help him make his record. To me, it's like clearly a reflection of Vernon's point of view in Bonnie Bear. And it's a, you know, Bright Eyes is, you know, Oberst sensibility, his point of view. Yeah. So, like, to me, like, to have bright eyes back, it's an interesting proposition from, like, sort of a nostalgia for the brand type perspective.

But, like, I have to say that for me, it was like, well, I don't really, if he's writing as bright eyes or it's kind of Oberst, it doesn't really matter to me personally. I'm just curious, like, how do you feel about that? Well, I think it does matter in the sense that I think Connor Oberst writes very different music for Bright Eyes than he does for his solo albums. And you can, I mean, like when you listen to his 2008 solo record or upside down mountain or the Mystic Valley band stuff or ruminations or ruminations, like the difference between Connor Oberst, the singer-songwriter and Connor Oberst, the leader of Bright Eyes,

is vast. And I think that this record really plays to it. Now, is it like, oh, Bright Eyes is a band? Is that like kind of an easy narrative peg for, like, I swear to God, I've never. never seen more profiles of an artist for an indie rock record. I've done one of them. It might run today. It might not. But yeah, I think that that kind of gives a narrative peg and a sense of excitement. But I think the BoniVeer comparison is very accurate in that when you get a BoniVeer record, it's going to sound different than like Justin Vernon doing a solo thing. Like the the

fingerprints of Mike Modis and Nate Walcott, who I also think, think it's worth mentioning, did keyboard on tour with the Red Hot Chili Peppers. That's another fun thing to mention. This is why Flees on the record. But I think that, yeah, but I think that like with bright eyes as like bringing it back as a band, it gives the sense of excitement to it that would not all be given to a Connor Overs solo record because we've seen Connor Overs solo records kind of come and go. Now, would that be different now with like post-Feebee Bridgers, post-like Better Oblivion Community Center?

Not, I don't quite know, but I think that this, they picked a really good time, like not intentionally, perhaps, but to kind of capitalize on this, like Connor Oberst being at his highest stock since I'm wide awake, I would say, or at least Casadega.

Yeah, it's interesting with the Better Oblivion Community Center because I feel like, you know, kinder oberst probably wasn't the biggest star in that band, at least not for like millennial and zoomer audiences. I feel like Phoebe Bridgers was the main draw for a lot of people in that group. So it's interesting to think of kind of Obers in that context because he is otherwise like one of the most sort of intensely loved singer-songwriters of like the last 25 years. I mean, at least in terms of like the people who love him, you know, I feel like their

adoration for him got so intense that it's partly what it's prompted. him to want to be more in groups now, maybe not so much at the focal point because he's received a lot of scrutiny and there's obviously been some pretty bad fallout for that for him in recent years. But to talk about the new record, which again is called Down in the Weeds where the World Once was, I've enjoyed some of Ober's recent work, especially the album Ruminations from 2016. I think that is his best album. Super underrated. Super overlooked. I think easily for me, my favorite album that he's done in the last decade or so. And it's an interesting contrast between that album and this album, because that album, of course, is the stripped down acoustic record. It's

very raw and strip bare. And this bright-ey's record is so ornate and so overstuffed. And you really feel the presence of Mogus and Walcott. There's lots of instrumental overdubs. There's all these grand orchestral flourishes. And from a production standpoint, I think there's like a lot of things about this record that are pretty impressive. Like, it's a pretty great sounding record in a lot of ways. But I have to say that, like, you know, I was listening to this album and the Killers album, like, for the past week, because I reviewed them both. And, like, The Killer's album was, like, candy to me. And this album felt like, like, vegetables, you know? It felt like work. Because I just feel like all of these songs, there's 14 songs, which I think is at least

four too many. It's a very long record. And, It's like all the songs are like mid-tempo. Again, there's like a lot of stuff going on in the songs. I feel like it's like a little like overdone. It's like overstuffed. And that's certainly, I think, a hallmark of Bright Eyes records. But like what was lacking for me essentially from this album was that sense of tension that you get from a record like lifted or fevers and mirrors or even like a record like

Casadega, which I think is pretty underrated, that sense that like, there's so much going on and there's so much intensity in like what Connor Oberst is doing that you feel like the music could collapse in any moment. And that is what drives, I think, a lot of those albums that, again, that tension of like not knowing where songs are going to go or like, is this actually, you know, going to make it to the end of the song or is everything just going to fall apart at once? And there's just like a tremendous energy to those records, even when they slow down. And, you know, they're not playing fast-paced music.

Like, this record just felt like a little remote to me in contrast. Like I didn't, I had trouble connecting with it as anything other than just like really kind of beautiful, again, ornate production and great instrumental overdubs. But like, that central sort of drive at the center was missing for me. So I ultimately just found this record to be pretty dull, you know? I just was not into it. It was just like a lot of bombast to me, but didn't really deliver. the gut punch. How do you feel about this record?

It's kind of the opposite trajectory of the Killers album where, I mean, they're both the same in that they had a very, very long and protracted rollout in many singles. And once Persona Nangrada dropped, you know, I was immediately like on that, defending it. Like, I almost like had like a personal stake in believing that Bright Eyes were back. And as the singles started to pile up, my enthusiasm for the record kind of diminished in like the inverse of what the Killers album did. Now, it's, I think there's an important missing piece like when you talk about like

the difference between ruminations and this record. There was salutations that came out in 2017 where they, where Conorobers took that very skeletal, almost like scary folk album. and then they got the Felice Brothers and they turned it into a much longer, much slicker and much duller album a year later. And as far as this one, yeah, and as far as this one goes,

I think this one is very much designed to make you think like just from a cursory listen, like Bright Eyes are back, man. Like Paige Turner's rag, I don't care if it's four minutes long. Like I need that when I listen to a Bright Eyes album. Like I need the long introduction where like it sounds like a podcast. Like you listen to the beginning of lifted. Like every single podcast sounds like that now.

It's like the guy was 20 years ahead of his time. But then you hear like dance and sing the first actual song. And when the choir comes in, it's like, yeah, that's my bright eyes right there. I like laughed out loud when I first heard it. Like I'm just like, yes, I am getting a real deal bright eyes album in 2020. Let's fucking go. And same with like Mariana Trend. how it's got that almost like kind of like old school country melody where it's like have I heard

this melody before like did I sing this in elementary school like it's it all sounds like public domain but nonetheless it kind of hits and then when I revisited the single like every time you hear a single it's like oh yeah that makes more sense in the context of the record like that's a very critical cliche but once I got towards like the midsection where like one and done popped up where uh forced convalescent and persona non grata the singles, it started to really kind of melt together to me, like you were saying. It's one thing for a bright-eyes record to sound good.

I think that was true of Casadega. I think that was true of People's Key. We're both very lush ornately arranged albums. And like you said, I'm just waiting for, like, you know, with Millhouse and Simpson's like, when do we get to the fireworks factory? Like, when does, when does Connor say something that, like, really, like, cuts to the bone?

where does he make me feel like uncomfortable on my own skin with where he's going? Like when does he like and and I know that like the fact that he's 40 years old, he's, you know, his brother passed away. You know, he talks about his divorce on the record. Like a lot of like real deep old man stuff has been happening. But I think that in some ways like, oh yeah, this is like a bright eyes album for like when you turn 40. But it's like I want a bright eyes album that like makes being 40 feel like listening to a bright eyes album when I'm 20. And I think that what where this record kind of falls short is that with like mid tempo pacing and just the kind of lack of like real risk, the sense of stakes I think I would call it. Like the album talks about the

end of the world a lot because that's just what Connor Overs does regardless of the year. And like I never felt like we were reaching an actual state of apocalypse. And right. So, I mean, I think it's just designed in a way to like bring out those their best albums since I'm wide awake, it's morning. Because like in a way, it kind of is. But like that also doesn't say a heck of a lot. It's like whenever you would like the cliche goes, like whenever R.E.M. would make a record that sounded like not, that didn't sound like up. It would be like their best album since Automatic for the People or their best album since Akhtung Baby. It's just like a way of kind of saying all that lesser loved experimentation that like made this catalog so deep and interesting.

Like this is like this is like back, like they're back, man. Return to form. And I think if you don't really scrutinize the album, it can sound that way. And I think that's kind of also played up by the fact that the press blitz kind of makes it makes it a lot harder to be scrutinizing of it. I don't know. I mean, I feel like for me. as far as like scrutinizing it it was just hard for me to get into this album

there's like not like any kind of real killer song that has like a great hook to it there's not like a lot of melody on this album I just feel like it's a lot of very long songs that have a lot of things going on in them but like there's no sort of a central core that is

going to draw you in and like I just want to say something quick too about what you said about you know a bright eyes album that can be relevant at 40 in the way that the bright-eis albums were 20 years ago, like when he was 20. I feel like he made that record with ruminations. I agree.

I agree. ...was an example of him making an album as a mature adult. He wasn't relying on a lot of the standard tropes that you associate with bright eyes. You know, his vocals were different. You know, he didn't have the spoken word interlude. I don't think there's one on that record. No, there is not. Instrumentation-wise, again, it was like him playing guitar or piano.

But, like, I feel like when you listen to that record, When he gives like a resigned sigh on that record, it hits with the impact of a scream on fevers and mirrors. You know, like, and, you know, going to your point about the power of the brand of Bright Eyes, I think you're right. I do think that by calling this a Bright Eyes record, it will generate more excitement and clearly it has generated more excitement than if it were just a Conner Ober's record. It kind of makes me wish that ruminations have been billed as a Bright Eyes record because I feel like maybe people would have paid more. attention to that album because I really do feel like that album you know lyrically I think of a song like they all loved him once oh yeah which is such a gut-wrenching song and to me like there's so much less going on in that song than there is on any song on this bright-eyes record and yet I'm way more

captivated when I hear that song or any of the other songs from that record and I also feel like there's something going on emotionally on that album that you can't deny. And not that I want Kiner Orberst to be miserable all the time, because he was clearly pretty miserable when he made that record. I read an interview with Mogus where he said that he could have mixed that album in a day, but it took two weeks because Kiner Oberst was so messed up at the time, which makes sense when you hear the record. But I don't know.

To me, I feel like the music on this album, or like the, again, all the bells and whistles, it's like a distancing effect almost from the album. It's like, whereas there's no distancing on ruminations. Like you're right up front there, you know, you can't miss what's going on with, with Oberst or with the songs. On this album, I just feel, again, like, it feels very remote to me. There's like so much going on, you know, there's all these buzz and whistles, there's all

these fireworks, but like, there's no core for me. Yeah. And that's what makes it hard for me to get into. Yeah, at the end of the day, though, I'm glad it exists. I think that I'm glad that like he seems like he's in a better place. And maybe in 2020, 23, maybe we get like a bright-eyes record where, you know, that it hits in a similar way. You know, maybe he, but I mean, like, we also got to talk about like Paola, the DeSar Perisitos record. He, in my interview with him, like he's like, yeah, nobody listened to that record.

It was like this super political, just kick-ass punk record, but it came out at the end of the Obama era when people weren't as really willing to look that stuff in the face. And so, I mean, I think that's kind of where this record disappoints as well. It's like Connor Overs is still capable, very capable of making gut punch music. But, I mean, look, I don't mind some brand stewardship. Let them cook, man. Like, I can't knock it, but like, well, I listen to this record a month from now.

I don't know. It's a very nice record when, like, my girlfriend and I, like, drive to the grocery store, which I think this record kind of talks about that. And, like, look, I need those records, too. So. Well, I think, you know, even though we're both pretty lukewarm on this bright-eyes record, it sounds like we're recommending bright-eyes records from four or five years ago, or kind of or Ebers records, I should say, from four or five years ago.

So, like, I think a lot of that stuff deserves reevaluation. So, yeah, maybe, you know, listen to the bright-eyes record once, but then go back, listen to the DeSaparacidos record, Paola, and then definitely listen to ruminations from 2016. Also, justice for digital ash and a digital urn. All right, this is the part of the episode that we call Recommendation Corner. This is where Ian and I talk about something that we're listening to or reading or watching that we think that you all would enjoy.

So, Ian, what is your recommendation this week? All right. Well, just the nature of this episode sent me back to 2004, and particularly with older Saddle Creek. I really don't know if it's possible for people like, you know, who are younger nowadays, to really understand, like, how improbable it was for Saddle Creek to put out so many, I would go as far as say classic records in like a span of, you know, 2000 to 2003. And of course, the top line talent was unbelievable.

Ryle O'Kiley, cursive, the faint, bright eyes. I started to revisit the kind of, I don't like the rotation players, like the, like, you know, the sixth man type bands. It really shows how deep this roster was. And I think one of the records that I want to bring up, this one has like really poor Spotify stats. But now it's overhead is kind of like this bizarreo, Athens, Georgia, Saddle Creek band in that, you know, the guy, like the guy behind the Annie Lamaster, he's sort of Connor Oberst and Mike Mogus at. all in one. He had this record in 2004 called Fall Back Open, which I think would be like really well received now because it's bed, it's kind of bedroom indie rock, but like with a lot of synthesizers drawing on like new order. Michael Stipe has a guest vocal and you know, the lyrics are about

like online dating and social profiles and such and just a really pretty record that like was probably nobody's top 50. But it's one like having lived in Athens, Georgia, I would recommend it's something that would probably sound just as fresh in 2020. And the other Saddle Creek record from that year, I feel the need to bring up is, you know, Tim Casher from Curseve had this side project called The Good Life. The first record they did Blackout really just like mopey, gothy, synth, kind of like synth rock. Then he made a record called Album of the Year, which is more fulky, kind of bright-eyish, just beautiful recording.

And it's this concept record about a relationship that falls apart because that's the only kind of concept record people ever really make. And like the moping of this record and like all like the way it hits is so convincing about like glorifying like going through a breakup that I listened to this record. And it kind of convinced me to break up with my girlfriend for like five hours back in 2005. Like I came home and like we had an argument and I'd listened to that record and like I called her three hours later like begging her to like take me back and he did. But you know, I think that's like kind of a testament to a like I guess my emotional state at the time. But also just how compelling this album, the Good Life album of the year makes this kind of this kind of romantic turmoil seem. Oh man. So we're recommending that record but also be careful with it.

Don't mix it with heartache or booze or anything. You could make a mistake. So my recommendation, I got to go with an extremely Stephen Hayden pick this week and go with the new single that was released by Father John Misty. It's a double-sided single. Songs are called 2S and 2R. You can go on Band Camp right now and download that single for two bucks. You could probably also stream it, I'm assuming, on your favorite streaming platform. These are the first two original songs that the arbor.

Otherwise known as Josh Tillman has released since 2018's God Favorite Customer. And, you know, it's definitely in the style of that record. Two Lovelorn songs, piano ballads. I think it's a little more stripped down than that album and certainly more so than Pure Comedy, the album before that. There's no real kind of grand string swelling, although there is a modicum of string swelling on these songs. Just a modicum.

And look, he's not reinventing the wheel on these songs. You're going to expect Father John Misty sounding songs when you put this on, and that's what you're going to get. However, I love Father John Misty sounding songs, and I think these are both really good songs. Very beautiful. It makes me excited to hear what he's going to be doing next. I have to say, too, that, like, 2020 has been a low-key, like, busy year for Father John Misty. He hasn't put out any official albums, but if you go to his bandcap page, he put out a really good live record earlier this year.

He also put out an EP of Leonard Cohen covers, which again is a very Father John Misty type move, but those songs sound great. And there are songs from periods of Leonard Cohen that you might not expect. I think there's a couple songs like from his early 90s record, The Future. I forget what else is on that record,

but that's another very worthwhile release. And, you know, my fear with Father John Misty, and I say this as a journalist, is that he has reached the point where he's not going to be talking to the press anymore, you know? Big loss. When he puts out his next album, you know, because for God's favorite customer, he didn't do any interviews. And that album was acclaimed, but it wasn't, didn't get quite the same promotional push

as his previous couple records. He may just be at that point in his career where I think he's realized that, Talking to the press, as much as people like me love it, because I think he's like one of the great interviews that you could hope to get as a journalist. You know, he's very quotable. But, you know, I think he's certainly learned on the pure comedy promotional cycle that doing interviews were perhaps hurting him more than helping him. So it seems like he's at that point in his career where he's letting the music speak for him, even though, again, this year we've gotten a series of like pretty great releases from him on his bandcamp page, but not really hearing. a whole lot about it. But again, I have to give props to his latest single. Again, the songs are 2S and 2R. Definitely check that out if you're a fan. All right, so that's two good recommendations

from us here. And we have now reached the end of another episode of Indycast. So thank you again for listening. And we'll be back next week to talk about more indie news and review more albums and keep you abreast of the latest in Indy Rock. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped Newsletter. You can go to Up. prox.com backslash indie and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.

Take care.