Indiecast - RIP Japandroids + The State Of "Critically Acclaimed" Metal with Chat Pile and Blood Incantation

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

This week's episode begins with a quick Sportscast on some of the biggest buffoons in sports, who happen to work in Philadelphia and New York (1:34). From there, Steven and Ian talk about the final album from Japandroids, Fate And Alcohol, and how it gives their career closure (9:30). Then they discuss two recent critically acclaimed metal albums from Blood Incantation and Chat Pile, and how the genre has evolved in the past decade (26:05).In the mailbag, a listener fact-checks Steven's recent rant about sports stadiums in Milwaukee (41:30). They also address an email about "slow burn" album openers on recent LPs by MJ Lenderman and Waxahatchee, and whether they set a good tone or are simply boring (45:20).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the latest from Touche Amoré and Steven recommends the new album from Tim Heidecker (51:00).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 211 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about new and or recent albums by Japan Deroids, chat pile, and blood incantation. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's the fan that Nick Siriani yelled at last week.

Ian Cohen, Ian, Ian, how are you? Like the bald look I know that he was like going for intense He was going for like we mean business now And he sort of looks like Kendall Roy From Succession when he shaved his head I really think that this is Like this Eagle season just with like the rancid vibes

And the black humor I feel as if this is HBO trying to do Like a fictional version of Hard Knocks Like there have been so many TV shows that have tried to do And I felt like playmakers if you remember that from, I think, the 2000s. I really feel like this is like live action footage that is going to be on a HBO document or an HBO show,

like prestige television based on the Eagles and the Eagles aren't actually a serious football team. Like they'll go just enough to get to the playoffs or like not, but like I don't think they're actively trying to win the Super Bowl. Yeah, by the way, this is a quick sports cast, obviously, to open the episode. How did Nick Siriani get this job? He was the, I think he was what? And I should know this. I think he was like the offensive coordinator for the Colts or something. Yeah, I understand the secession of it to bring up secession again.

But like why did they hire him? Because I look at the Eagles and they seem to me like a very competent organization. You got Jeffrey Lurie, one of the great owners, I think, in the league. You got Howie Roseman, widely considered one of the best GM. consistent winner over the years. You once had Andy Reed as your coach, widely considered the best coach in the NFL right now. And you hire this buffoon?

I don't understand it. It seems so out of character for the Eagles. And I hate the Eagles, by the way. I've said this. I hate your team, but it's a respectful hate because you guys are all-time Packer killers. Fourth and 26, one of the worst days of my life. as a sports fan.

So I respect you, and I don't understand why you hired this guy. It's so strange to me. Yeah, I mean, we've had Rich Cotay and, like, the Norman, the Braeman era, which it wasn't like Jeffrey Loyal, like Norman Brayman, I think was his name. He was like this, like, Florida car dealer magnate. And this was like the not serious Eagles. Like the Eagles have been a serious franchise, even with like the Dream Team era where they, like, signed Vince Young and a bunch of other guys who and the team was just complete shit.

But yeah, I think that like, I want to say that like Nick Siriani is doing maybe the best job in the NFL of like doing what I think ahead. Like there are serious head coaches like Andy Reid and I guess Sean Payton maybe. And then there's everyone else who's a not serious coach and your entire job is just to eat shit for the franchise. and this deflect from like maybe if the players are like you can't get rid of the players really and you can't fire the owner so you keep that coach there to eat shit and let the fans believe that something can change otherwise how do you explain how Mike McCarthy still has his job you know

to bring it back to Packerland well they won they've won 12 games in the regular season the last three years so I mean you know people attack McCarthy he's got and he won a Super Bowl too so I mean McCarthy in the playoffs is a disaster, but he's a good coach. I'll defend Mike McCarthy. Siriani, yelling at the fan and then bringing his kids to the press conference, so the press wouldn't go after him. I mean, that is peak buffoon, even from Siriani, who has set a high bar for buffoonery. I kind of hope he doesn't get fired at this point because it is such an entertaining thing to see. But he's definitely going to get fired. And it may happen in the season. I guess we'll see how the Eagles do. I mean, you won last week, but it was against a terrible, like historically

horrible quarterback. And yeah, you only won by four points. And then Siriani's yelling at the fan at at home. Just beautiful buffoonery behavior. Also got to bring up, because I had my rant last week. I heard from some New York people reminding me that the Giants have just killed the Packers in the playoffs in a humiliating fashion that was the

you know, the Brett Farr of game where he threw the pick at Lambeau Field and Giants went to the Super Bowl and I think there was also another one. The year the Packers went 15 and won and then the Giants played the Packers at Lambo and just killed us.

So I probably do have some leftover hate because of that. But I think we can all agree with the Jets. Just a dog shit franchise that should be relegated out of the NFL. And then this week, they trade for Devante Adams. So now you have two ex-packers now

at the head of the table. Alan Lazard, too. That guy is putting up numbers. Right, Lizard. I'm trying to think about a... Is there a musical analogy to this Devante Adams situation where you bring in a famous player,

and there's a lot of excitement people have the day it happens. But deep down, we all know this will not make a lick a difference. The Jets are not going any. They're probably going to lose to the Steelers this weekend. I would put money on the Steelers beating the Jets. No one thinks the Jets are actually going to go anywhere now that they have Devante Adams. I mean, their problems are run much deeper than just having another player that Aaron Rogers can do back-shoulder throws to. I'm trying to think of, is there an analogy here like where a band

hires a producer or they bring in a new member and you're like, this isn't going to work. I guess maybe the chili peppers. Yes. Hiring, you always go to the chili peppers for analogies. The chili peppers bringing in Dave Navarro for one hot minute, which is actually a good, I actually kind of like one hot minute. But that clearly was not going to last any longer than one record. So I guess maybe that's the analogy that Devante Adams is Dave Navarro and Aaron Rogers is Anthony Ketus.

Does that work here as an analogy to the situation? I'm a Jets fan now. Now that you've like put it that way, I want. And also it's like sort of prime chili peppers. I was thinking more like maybe Snoop going to no limit. But like Snoop made two records on no limit. And the second one was actually kind of good. It had a pretty big hit on it.

So that one's not. ideal, but I do love our unified, you know, the chili peppers explain the universe. They do. They have such a varied history. You can make some connection to the chili peppers, you know, whether you're talking about sports, politics, science, whatever the field is, you can link it back to something that happened with the chili peppers in their history. So maybe that's a good segue out of sportscast and into, uh, into, indie cast here. I don't think we have any

albums out this week for the fantasy draft. Am I right? I have some albums coming out next week. Yeah, I don't think we... I don't think so. You know, just the update from last week, because I think last week when we recorded, we didn't have a chat pile update.

So chat pile is coming in and we're going to talk about them later. They got an 85. Blood incantation is pulling in 91. Damn. That's crazy. Yeah, Yasmin Williams is doing 88, and Gatsby U Black Emperor has knocked it up a bit to 78.

So no longer a epic flop. You know, still not what I anticipated, but with Mount Erie left to go, I feel pretty confident. Also, I don't think you've had any come up yet, so who knows? Laura Marling is going to put up numbers. That I can know for sure.

Yeah, I have Laura Marling next week, and I have soccer, next week. Right. So, uh, man, you're doing really well.

All of your albums are sniffing around 90. I mean, you're either like mid 80s, high 80s or right above 90. Jesus Christ. I do this every time, man. I'm the Nick Siriani of the fantasy draft.

That's, that's the thing on me. I'm the buffoon here. And I'm definitely going to be yelling at fans if I don't win this, this, uh, this quarter. Yeah.

Well, let's talk about an album that neither one of us drafted, which is fate and alcohol. It's the new record from Japan Droids. It's the last album by Japan Droids. Ian, of course, you wrote about this record recently. Your huge profile that you wrote for stereo gum, what? Did you say that 7,000 words? It was like, when I initially got the assignment, they asked, you know, it's like, hey, we're going to probably need this. But we're looking for three or four thousand.

And that just sounds so daunting because, you know, the average review is probably 800 to 1,000 words. And by the time, you know, because I have like hours of tape. And by the time it was done and I turned it in, I'm like, this is 7,500 words and I can't cut any of it. It was just a massive undertaking, but one that went pretty quickly. Like, this didn't take as long as I thought it would to put it together because of the urgency of it all. Like it, you know, it had to get, it had to get out there before the album released, but between singles. because, you know, as we've seen, it's the only one out there. Like, this is the definitive fate and alcohol piece.

But, you know, I also haven't read yours yet because it hasn't posted as we're recording. But as far as interviews, this is the only one they're doing. Yeah, I mean, I think your profile is the one. And my piece is going up today, Friday. And hopefully it will be like a postscript to your story. Because I wrote basically a eulid. for the band, writing about my personal experience, listening to them, and wrote a bit about fate and alcohol at the end.

And that felt appropriate to me because this album, right or wrong, just feel a bit like an afterthought at this point, and maybe it's because of how it's been released. I think you've said this, that it would have made more sense maybe to do a surprise release and just you know say this is our record we're breaking up or I guess they're not saying break up

they're saying the band is over whatever terminology you want to use we're done this is our last record and just have like a explosion of affection for the band and you ride that wave and that's it

because there's no tour for this record either it's like the record's coming out and that's it so it's a It's a weird way to roll it out. But in my piece, I just wrote about how, to me, Japan droids were designed to do one thing, and that is make celebration rock. And they did it. And it feels like the 12 years since have been about accepting that and moving beyond it.

you know one thing i don't remember if you talked about this in your story did they know this was going to be the last record when they were making it because my sense is that maybe that decision was made afterward um i think it was made during and like because what what to kind of like recap the story like uh you know they they the last album near to the wild heart of life was intention to challenge this idea that like all they can do is make, you know, post-nothing celebration rock style music. And, you know, they described it as their intended white pony born in the USA, or not born in the USA, born to run, okay computer, like big third album swing. And, you know, it was successful to certain degrees.

And this one was kind of thought of as like, let's get back to basics. They intended this album to be good live as they were putting it together. But, you know, this started in 2018, 2019. They're living in different cities. It's hard to put things together for them because even when they were living in Vancouver, it was just such a pain in the ass for them to make records. And then the pandemic happens. And so at some point as they're putting it together and, you know, the life changes that

are happening with two of them, they're like, yeah, we, I can't tour this. This is going to be our last album. So I, but it was made the song, like when you hear the songs, like they're short, they're punchy they were intended to sound good live whereas near to the wild heart of life was a studio record so um they did yeah and and i think this gets to the a part where i feel like even in the 7500 words i let myself down where i didn't key in on the why of it all you know because they're not touring it right um the brian i think and i i don't think this is putting anyone's business out there it comes through in the piece it's like wants to put as much distance from himself as possible

so i mean either you do the surprise roll out like i never really i never really honed in on the why of it all you know like why they put this out like it's such a pain the ass to make uh they're not touring it um it's yeah there's a lot of anxiety about how it's going to receive by the way so far 77 on Metacritic, the reviews are cautiously positive, which I think was going to happen. Like, I think, and I'm like predicting for your, there's like a eulogy for the band rather than like, yeah, this is up to the par of like Celebration Rock. Like, I never got the sense of like, well, like, they're proud of the record. Don't get me wrong. But I never got the sense of like why go through if it's this much of a hassle, this much of a pain in the ass for the reward.

why follow through, you know? I mean, they probably got deep enough into it where why not finish the record. Yeah, they were, you know, you put so much time into something at some point, are you just going to put it aside and not put it out? I mean, to me, that's probably the why of that. That, the discovery that they weren't going to tour

and not make another record probably happened late enough in the game where it was like, well, let's just finish this off and put a period at the end of the sentence. I mean, in my piece, I write about how my feelings about the band changed over time. And this is true of a lot of bands. You know, you love a band for a while, then you like them, and then you finally remember the times when you really cared about them.

And that's where I'm at right now. I don't have the same feelings about them that I had in the early 2010s. And that has as much to do with me as it has to be. to do with them. But looking back on their career, and this is going to sound like backhanded praise, but I really don't mean it that way. I do mean it as a compliment. That I think the art of this band is that they were always just like a good band that somehow, to my mind, stumbled into greatness with Celebration Rock in ways that they couldn't have fully planned or conceived of. One thing I took from your piece is how their records, the way that they sound is not necessarily how they're made.

In a way, the way they make records is closer almost to Steely Dan than it is to the replacements. Because Brian King is this perfectionist. He's recording take after take, you know, laboring in the studio, delaying records, you know, sort of obsessing over having. them sound just the right way. And like, I remember seeing them on the Celebration Rock Tour and realizing in a weird way that the record was a studio construction because live, it was way less powerful. You know, it didn't sound like the record.

They had captured something on the record that I think they couldn't recreate really that effectively as a live band. And then near to the Wild Heart of Life is a record. I remember really liking at the time. and I've never really gone back to it. I don't think I've listened to that record since 2017. To me,

Celebration Rock is the record that will always define them. Like, they are the band that made Celebration Rock. That is their identity. That is what goes on the tombstone. And that's a great epitaph to have. And that is what I focused on in my piece. I mean, as for this record, I mean, I think it's pretty clumsy. I think that their worst traits, you know, cornyness.

sort of like a self-consciousness. I think they're very much in effect here. I mean, a lot of the lyrics are just full-blown cringe. I mean, that song, positively 34th Street, where he's talking about, you know, I mean, a lot of these songs are about starry-eyed guys and, like, the women who love them. And they talk like they're in, you know,

they talk like characters in the movie Baby Driver. You know, like, you know, very overlaught. romanticized, just, you know, I'm listening to this record, I feel like Roger Murtaugh and Lethal Weapon, I'm getting too old for this shit, you know? But at the same time,

now this is the important but this record still moved me. I found myself feeling moved listening to this record, and it might be because of your profile, but I do think that there's a palpable sense on this album of someone who is white-nought.

his way through the day. You know, that this is, you know, he talks in your story about his sobriety and the fragility of his sobriety, and I think you get that sense on the record. There's an underlying vulnerability to the bravado on this album, and it really does feel like someone who,

you know, presented this fantasy on Celebration Rock, and then on this record, it's about moving beyond the fantasy. and maybe trying to live a different kind of life. And for all the clumsiness of this record, that aspect of it I did find moving. And so it was emotionally involving.

So I think for all the flaws of the record, it still resonates with me as a listener. Now, am I going to listen to this record? Probably not after this. I think if I listen to Japan droids, it's going to be Celebration Rock. But I do think that to get back to your point about the why of the record, I think it does put

a period at the end of the sentence. It does feel in a way like an appropriate capper for their career. Yeah, as far as like the cringe, you use Baby Driver, which, you know, I think I've said this many a time here, which is like my least like, I hate that movie so much. I did that on purpose.

I referenced that movie on purpose. For me, like the most and again, like I, this I think this album sort of ceased to exist after I do the did the piece. Like it, as a, it's an emotion like I feel things about it without having to listen to the record. Also just doing the piece like changed my relationship with the record to the point where it's like pretty hard to revisit right now.

But there are definitely points on this where I thought to myself and I'm going to say be very careful when I'm saying this. I'm like Beach Lang did this better. You know, especially like the corniness and like the I can't believe you're talking like this. And Beach Lang is a band that like I am very regretful of having praise. but like that album did shit for me you know like in 2015 like that album did things for me and it was Japan droids methadone

yes it was it had been three years since Celebration Rock and that album it did enough it's not as good as Celebration Rock obviously but it did enough it was the methadone it got you 60% of the high and that was that was what you wanted at that time like I was get I got sucker

I knew I was getting sucker but I'm like, fuck it, man. Fuck it, we ball. But, yeah, I do think that it, like, I'm glad it exists because it really does provide closure. And, yeah, I mean, like, Japan Joins are, like, one of the most, like, that was that me band. Like, I identified with that band to a very scary degree.

And I think to the point of, like, a very good band making a classic record, I've written about that a lot with the band, how that's the kind of emotional driver of that. It's like, you hear this band. And like you don't hear like genius. You don't see like, oh, they were born to do this. And they've talked about that a lot, how they are like, it is so hard for them to make music. And you watch them and you see like average people make just incredible music.

But not in that like, you know, kind of like punk rock idea. Like where it's like guided by voices or the replacements or, you don't see magic. You don't see genius. It is just hard to explain how. I don't want to say like Brady Anderson hitting 50 home runs because that's obviously due to steroids. But I do think that it's not a slight to say that they are put on this earth to make celebration rock. And yeah, it takes 12 years and more to unpack how that happened. Yeah, I mean, what you just said, I mean, that is one of the central points of my column about them is that I think I think there is,

on Celebration Rock, and the magic is that these two guys just seem like ordinary guys, and through some combination of, like, self-actualization and intoxication, they were able to make this record. And it's almost like if you and I made a record, and it somehow ended up being good. You know, it's like a one in a million chance that you feel like you could make a good record, and they were able to do it. And I think that, like, you look at the album cover, and it's like, you know, these aren't exotic or cool-looking guys.

they're two Canadians in like scarves and glasses. You know, they look like they could just be, you know, in any bar or anywhere that you walk into. And yet they were able to make that record. And to me, that's the magic of that album. And yeah, and I hate the punk mythos about like, well, anyone could do it. That's why it's good. But that record kind of has that quality to it. And that to me is what really makes it stand up because it's not.

Because they're not the Rolling Stones. They're not the replacements even. They're not like these bands that you look at and feel like, oh, that's a great band. They're just two guys that were in Vancouver. You know, post-nothing is a good record. But I remember seeing them, you know, at South by Southwest in 2010. I didn't think I was witnessing genius or anything. I thought they were a good band, but I didn't think.

I thought they would make one more record. It would get a 6.8 from pitchfork. and then they would never be heard from again. And then getting Celebration Rock and being like, these guys made this record? Like this is so good. You know,

so that was the incredible, I think, thing with them. And I think that's how they'll be remembered. And that's a great legacy. I mean, people are going to remember that record, I think. Yeah. But Celebration Rock is not going to be the thing people will remember you for.

You were able to transcend the Celebration. Well, there you go. See, absolutely. Exactly. you know, this is our fate and alcohol. And I think our, ours are near to the wild heart of life. But we've been able to keep it going.

We're still on the road. So anyway, Japan droids, RIP, we bid you a do. Thank you so much for everything you've done. I kind of have to say, you know, again, I keep just repeating things from my column. But I'll just say, you know, for people that are curious, like should I check this record out?

To me, like, listening to this record is like, do you want to go to your high school reunion? Yeah. You know, do you want to see your old classmates and how they look now? Or do you just want to remember them how they were back then? You know, and I'll leave that decision up to you, the listener, to decide.

But that would be my sort of hypothetical situation to paint out in terms of, you know, how you should approach this record. Let's go from talking about a dead band to death metal. How's that for a segue? No, we're going to talk about metal here. We're going to have a metal cast segment here on the show because there are two very critically acclaimed metal records

that have come out in October, both on Ian's fantasy draft team, by the way. You have blood incantations absolute everywhere, which came out a few weeks ago, October 4th. And then you have Cool World by Chatpile, which came out last week. And we want to talk about these albums together because I think they both epitomize

what is critically acclaimed metal. And I'm putting critically acclaimed metal in quotes. Critic core metal, if you will. And I don't know, Ian, if you want to talk about each record a bit, just where people haven't heard them, just to give some context. But I do feel like these records are in the wheelhouse of music critics, and I'm interested in exploring why that is. Yeah, so Blounting Incantation in 2019, they released an album towards the end of the year. This was like the token metal album that appeared on the pitchfork mid-decade list.

And my understanding, like they were one of the first, not one of the first, but they were a band to kind of popularize the death metal font you see on like Phoebe Bridgers uh t-shirts and so forth so they're like kind of on a sci-fi like 70s prog metal kick um and whereas chat pile is um i can just just describe them as like pissed jeans meat it's corn right uh but like also godflesh because they have electronic drums they have like an electric like not electronic drums like an electronic drum machine like an electronic drum kit And so in 2020, they put out a record, God's Country. They're from Oklahoma City. They're kind of older guys.

I did interview Raygun Bush, the front person for uprocks at the end of 2022. Why was one of my favorite songs of the year. And they kind of are in that more of a Jesus lizard, 90s, you know, touch and go sort of mode. But I think both of these artists speak to the bigger point. which we want to talk about, which is that I think at least since Sunbathe, most of the metal that gets the token metal spot is either

like really inaccessible like death or black metal or doom metal, where the songs are like 10 minutes long. Or you get maybe like a band that's like kind of dabbling in chew gays or post rock or what have you. But there doesn't, I'm trying to think of like

the last like accessible like metal band that got popular and like Power Trip maybe. I mean, knock loose is huge, but they're more kind of metalcore. And I don't think, I mean, it's been well reviewed, but I think it's like fantasy draft style where it's, you know, the one guy who's going to review the knock loose album gives it like a 95. So, but it gets to the point, like, because there's the, like, where is the, I don't know, the mastodons or the baronesses or the torches? Yeah, like, where is the accessible? Yeah.

that's what I always wonder with this. I mean, I haven't really been interested in metal for about 10 years. And I think it does coincide with this era of really embracing, like you said, either just the cookie monster death metal vocal type bands or, you know, the doom metal bands where it's like a sludgy, just super slow, song for like 10 minutes or 12 minutes. Just songs basically that if you're not deeply invested in metal,

it's not going to grab the sort of just casual fan. I mean, like for me personally, I think my platonic ideal of a metal record would be, is it, is it torch or torchet? You said, you said torchet. I thought it was torch, but I,

Right. Yeah, I mean, yeah, because it's Torch with a knee, basically. I'm just going to call him Torch, and you can grill me in the mailbag if I got that wrong. But, you know, they were a band, because I don't think they're together anymore, are they? I haven't heard. I wasn't sure about that either. They haven't put out a record in a while, but basically they are a heavy band, but they're melodic and the singer, and I'm sorry, no disrespect to metal fans, but it has like a, he can sing. Like, it's a good. accessible voice, kind of like in the Josh, like, Omey style of singing. And I guess Queens of the Stone Age, I would be in the same group as well. And really, when you talk about a band like this, I think certainly I would bet like a lot of metal fans would argue that these aren't metal bands, that these are basically hard rock bands. Yeah, like ghost or whatever, you know? Yeah, and I am probably more of like a hard rock person than a metal person. But like I love hard rock. Like, that's like one of my favorite genres of music.

And, um, you don't really hear those records bubble up anymore. I mean, you mentioned Mastodon. Like, Mastodon really was moving in a more kind of hard rock direction. And I don't even like know what their status is at this point. I mean, because they never really became like a big radio rock band. They tried. And then, yeah, they tried. And then as they did that, I feel like their critical capital just totally.

evaporated. I mean, you know, like Leviathan, people love that record. I think even Blood Mountain, you know, people would love that record. But then after that, critics started to abandon them as they became more accessible. I mean, it, does this just come down to, and we've talked about this before with the fantasy draft, but like the metal guy or the metal woman on staff, that this is the kind of stuff that they like and that there's no one else who's going to dispute that, like, you just kind of rely on, like, a handful of, like, metal people, and, like, the metal people are going to go for maybe the more insular-sounding records? I mean, I think so.

Like, Mastodon, and, again, like, you got to trust me on this, even though you've been on Paul Fine Bombs show, I feel like I have the pulse of, you know, college football Twitter. Mastodon is a band that, like, college football guys like, like, alongside, like, you know, drive-by truckers. maybe it's because they're from Atlanta, but, you know, Baroness, Mastodon, like, they are touring, they're touring beasts.

You know, they'll get positively reviewed, but they're not, like, at the vanguard of what's happening in metal, you know? They're, like, almost classic rock at this point. Right. Whereas, so we have this gulf between, not, like, not just your chat piles and your blood incantations of Mastodon and Baroness,

but you have Mastodon and Baroness who will like, you know, they'll be like the third or fourth line on like the Metallica headline festival but you know the big pop metal bands like I think because that's what we're looking for like metal but accessible we're talking about um bands that Eli Enis wrote about for stereo gum like sleep token and spirit box and bad omens it sound like imagine dragons right uh and I think that's kind of true of like a lot of contemporary pop country and pop rap like to me it's like all kind of downstream of imagine dragons yeah And I mean, of those bands, I'm most familiar with Sleep Token, who are trash.

That band's terrible. So, yeah, it does feel like it's either, you know, 10-minute songs that only serious metalheads will love or just trash, like, sleep token that gets on the radio. And that, again, I'm looking for those fun, hard rock bands that have some critical credibility. Like, that is my wheelhouse for this kind of music. If there's a great band out there like that, let me know if you're listening. You know, write us in the mailbag. Because I haven't found a band like that in a while. And I have a feeling that they're out there and I just haven't heard them yet.

There's this band I think, and I can't pronounce it because it's Norwegian. Kavela. Kevler attack, like KV. Right. You've probably seen that name. I feel like that's what they do. That's a band. I've heard that band.

But they're even from like 10 years ago. I mean, like, they were a band that I was listening to. I had like my metal phase for a while in the early 2010s where I was really invested in that. But it was moving in a direction that was not my cup of tea. Right. And it was more towards this, I think, again, either Cookie Monster vocals or the 10 Minutes Sludge Fest, which I just get bored by. You know, like that band. Oh.

Son or her son or. No, it's... Wolds in the throne room. It was like a... They had like a purple cover and there was like the Grim Reaper dude on the cover. Oh, I know.

Fuck, man. I know what you... What's the name of that band? I can't remember that name of that band. But they were a band that like I tried to get into. They were very critically acclaimed at the time. And I was just, I just got bored listening to it. It's like I need a little more like melody or hooks here.

I mean, Black Sabbath wrote great pop songs along with being super... heavy. So can we have songs and not just sludge for 10 minutes? But to get to these records that that we're talking about here, you know, the Blood Incantation record, it's funny with both of these records, because I do think that there actually is a fair amount of, like, melody on both of these albums that if you aren't a metal fan, I think especially chat pile, actually has, like, a lot on there where that I think is closer to this platonic ideal for me personally. The blood incantation record, it's funny to me because it actually reminds me of the metal record that King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard made. I think it came out last year.

It actually sounds a lot like that to me because it's in a similar Prague metal lane. The difference is that I think King Gizzard was doing it at least somewhat ironically. And the blood incantation record is totally serious. Absolutely. So that's the difference. there. But just as music, there's a lot of similarities going on there.

It's funny to me with the blood incantation because I was actually expecting it to be heavier than it is. There is some heaviness on it, but there's also like a lot of again just kind of spacey prog rock passages on the album. Because it's like set up, I think there's like six tracks. Yeah.

And they're all like, it's like part one. It's kind of like one long song broken up into six tracks. But yeah, it's like, it's more gentle giant than Black Sabbath, you know? Yeah, I was like surprised how much I like this record because, you know, people have like talked about like, you know, you say gentle giant, tangerine dream. Like bands I reference, even though I've never listened to their stuff. Like I, it's just something that you throw out there. Yeah, Tangerine Dream is on the record.

Oh, for real? Maybe that's why they're talking about it. Yeah, they're on the second track. Okay. So, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, they're definitely consciously drawing on 70s Prague on this record. And I'm surprised that, like, you know, I trust the people who say they like blood incantation, they're very trustworthy. I don't think they're doing a bit.

I'm like figuring, okay, whatever, this is not from me. But I'm like, I was surprised how much I liked it, you know, I threw it all while I was playing NCAA football. And, you know, I played two games while listening to it. And I'm like, yeah, this, I can fuck with this. chat pile though you know I I they're a band that like is extremely

for me theoretically because you know they really rep corn they they the lyrics are funny they're just like normal guys um and also they're a band sort of like Piss Jeans

who I mentioned before where I love the album the first time I hear it and I don't go back to it very often why is the reason they exist you know like that like why like they were put on this earth to make why, a song which I will probably quote for the next 10 years. I just want to fact-check myself here quick on the Blood Incantation Record. It's six songs, but like the first three songs are the Stargate, Tablet 1, Tablet 2, Tablet 3. I love it that there's tablets.

And then the next three tracks are all called The Message and then three tablets for those. So it's not just one long song, it's like the Stargate and then you have the message. But yeah, even the album cover for Blood Incantation, it looks like, it reminds me of the King Gizzard cover. You know, you've got a pyramid in red, and it appears to be like on some planet in the galaxy. I mean, this band is not ironic, but there's got to be some sense of fun. Yeah. And knowing goofiness, like when you have an album cover like this. Look at their press photo.

Like they got the like the little round glasses Like the receding hairlines Like this is very much a 19 set This is a band that is very serious And studied You know because like King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard Can like go through this phase

In like the span of a month Like this is a band who has clearly studied This era of music for decades And they are like They are period piece actors And yeah I think it's great It's a great record Yeah

If you're not in the metal, I would recommend checking these albums out. At least give them one listen. Because, yeah, I think they're both fun for me. Neither record is, again, like totally in my wheelhouse. It's not exactly what I would want from this kind of record. But I can appreciate what they're doing. And I think they're both more enjoyable than like a lot of recent critically acclaimed metal records to me. So, you know, maybe we're moving in a good direction.

but I don't know, man. Just give me some good, melodic, chunky, hard rock, man. That's what I'm looking for with a great singer. I, you know, my kingdom for a chunky, awesome hard rock band. That's what I'm looking for. What if it's chugel and chunked? I mean, gosh, that's that's what we're looking for right there. I'm getting chugel and chunk in this economy.

I could not believe it. Let's get to our mailbag segment. Thank you all for writing in. It's always good to hear from our listeners. You can hit this up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. I'm actually going to read this first email because this is a fact check on me. So I feel like I need to own this. This comes from Sam, long-time listener, first-time mailer, and West Alice, Wisconsin Native.

On last week's show, Stephen said that some annoying people say that Miller Park, now American Family Field or wherever the hell it is, is in West Alice. Well, that's not what I said. I was using that as an example of stadium discourse because people were telling me that the New York Jets and New York Giants are not New York teams because their stadium is in New Jersey, which is stupid and pedantic. And I was using Miller Park or American Family Field as an example because I thought it was in West Dallas. But Sam tells me that it is in fact in West Milwaukee, which is a thing. and I know that because I lived in Milwaukee for eight years. And he says, portions of the stadium and parking lot are in West Milwaukee.

Stal is forever, but don't give us cool credit. We didn't actually earn. Anyway, thanks for the show. I've been listening since the beginning. Thanks, Sam. So, I just want to say I brought this upon myself by perpetuating stadium discourse. I am now haunted forever by stadium conversations.

But Sam is right. I'm wrong. America Family Field, it is not in West Dallas. It's like right by West Alice, apparently. And I thought, see, in Milwaukee, you have Milwaukee, and then you have all of these suburbs that are right next to Milwaukee. You have like Wawatosa. Hell yeah.

Is north of 94. West Alice is south of 94. I guess I forgot about the West Milwaukee buffer, because I don't know exactly where the border is for West Alice. Like my sister lives in West Alice, and I was just there actually not that long ago. And the state fair park is in West Dallas. And I thought the border went a little farther east into the Milwaukee Brewer Stadium area.

Apparently I'm wrong. I know it's right by there. But apparently it's in West Milwaukee or Milwaukee or whatever. So my mistake, I wanted to make sure that I acknowledge my mistake. And yeah, I'm sorry that I brought up stadium discourse because I stepped in it. Yeah, I spent like, you spent like however many seven, eight years in Milwaukee. I spent like two days and I saw Miller Park from the place I was staying at, which was in Wawatosa. And I'm like, I want to be able to back check Steve here.

But I don't know what the fuck West Alice is. I don't know what it was. So you can probably see the stadium from parts of West Dallas. Again, like Wawatosa is north of 94. the stadium is a little bit south of 94. It's like, because 94 goes right by the stadium. West Dallas is also south of 94. And I just thought it went a little farther east into the stadium.

But again, I was incorrect. I'm just glad to get all this Milwaukee talk into the podcast. This is very happy for me. I just imagine everyone else's eyes glazing over during this part. But Milwaukee cast, I love it. Well, we need to do so. If we're going to do Milwaukee cast, I don't know if either of us have heard the BoniVare EP that's out, I think, today in full. Oh, yeah.

This is our substitute. Yeah. Well, that's O'Clair cast, that Milwaukee cast. O'Clair is, you know, four hours away from Milwaukee. Not near at all. But, yeah, that's a good EP, by the way. We could have talked about that on the show. Maybe we will next week.

I haven't heard it. You want to read our next letter? Yeah. So this comes to us from James from North Andover, Massachusetts. And James has been noticing a trend that he's hoping we can hash out. So James tells us over the last few years, I've experienced a familiar phenomenon. I get very excited about a new record, listen to the singles and eagerly await a release date. The record comes out and I press play, hype to listen to what could potentially be a new favorite album,

only to be met with a very slow, moody and dare I say, plotting opening tracks. Since I'm an Indycast listener, my favorite two, Two albums of the year are Manning Fireworks by M.J. Lenderman and Tiger's Blood by Waxahatchee, both excellent records that start very, very slow. Does this have something to do with the headphone generation, not wanting to hit listeners over the head with the sound soon out of the gate? Our current songwriters are more reflective and introspective mood and therefore don't feel the need to jump out to a fast start. I'm not looking for an MC5 kick out the Jan's barn burner, but I remember a time when an album opener and sent an energetic tone and the

slow songs were pushed towards the middle to break things up. Is this something we're experiencing as well. Appreciate the pod. And thank you for making my Friday's fun. Yeah, so thanks for the email, James. I mean, I don't think this is a recent thing. I feel like this is something that you've been hearing on albums for

decades at this point. And I think there is a strategy with it where yeah, you ease people into the record and then you hit them with the fast song. This example popped into my head immediately. No code. by Pearl Jam, starts with sometimes, very quiet song.

And then the second track, Hail, Hail, just boom, punches you in the face. Very aggressive. And I think there is something to that that works. And maybe it's just not one to be predictable by putting the banger at the top of the record. I will say in the case of Manning Fireworks, I've heard this complaint from other people, by the way. I've heard, I think we've even gotten emails about this talking about how they don't love the type of track at the top of the record. But I was thinking about it and I'm like,

what song would you prefer to be at the top? I don't think there's a better choice with the possible exception of On My Knees. I think that could have been a good opening track. Actually, on this tour that Lenderman is on right now, I think a lot of the shows, he's opening with Manning Fireworks and then playing On My Knees second.

So he is just directly, doing the quiet opener and then banger second song. I think on my knees could have been a good opener. That would be my only alternative. Otherwise, I think Manning Fireworks is the only song that makes sense in that slot. If you put on my knees, though, at the top of the record, it would open with burdened by these wet dreams of people having fun, which would be, that's kind of

like the nut graph of the record right there. It kind of sums up the entire album that you're about to hear. But yeah, I don't know. I'm in favor of the quiet opener. I remember a few years ago we had this trend of the spoken word track at the top of the record, which I am not a fan of. The hotel year, yeah, but who else was doing it? I feel like there were a couple records like that.

I can't remember because we talked about it on the show. Yeah, vibe-wise, it feels true, but I'm, like, at a loss for trying to remember what. I guess you could say, like, Phoebe Bridger's Punisher had a, like, the DVD. I think that's the one that starts it. I think there was like a bright-eyes record maybe that. I can't remember. They all do. They all have that.

The 1975, didn't they do that? Oh, yeah, yeah. Every single album, except I, well, no, not the new one. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, now it's like, right. So they were a bunch. And then, I'm not a fan of that. I feel like that's just begging to be skipped.

And then also like the moody atmospheric instrumental track. You know, that goes for a minute. You hear that sometimes on records. I'm not a huge fan of that. Although I like it more than the spoken word thing. But yeah, a slow song at the start. I don't know. I'm in favor of it.

Yeah. How do you feel? I mean, I think that there are situations where bands will do the quiet, meditative, slow burn opener, knowing that when they play live, they're going to, like, start with a bangers. Just to make these things different. I think that, I mean, one of my favorite albums,

if not my favorite album of all time, Me Eat World's Clarity, that starts with a slow, that starts with a slow burn, whereas all the other Jimmy Eat World albums like start with a banger. But, you know, I was thinking with, you know, these two particular albums, M.J. Lenderman and Waxahatchie, I'm thinking of Wilco and how misunderstood. I'm trying to break your heart. At least that's what you said. They a lot of times start with a quiet slow burn, but they also have, you know, can't stand it and the art of almost. I'm thinking of like Whiskey Town as well,

like within town and the batter to Carolin. Maybe it's just an all-country thing. Sunbolt, too, Trace, opens with windfall. I mean, at least at what you said, the first half is mellow and then the second half is not. But yeah, it definitely opens mellow. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that could be a good convention, I guess, for all country records, for sure.

So, yeah, they just. Ease people in, slide into the bar. stool, get your beer ready, because you know, you don't want to get too rowdy off the rip, you know. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? Yeah, so with the metal conversation, I don't want to, like, Tuchet Amore is not a metal band, but they're just, they make heavy music with vocals that are, you know, a bit divisive for people, but they put out a record last week called Spiral in a Straight Line. I didn't really put as much time into the

this record beforehand as I usually do because I you know I wrote their the art of Tuchet Amory book you can buy it their website so I wasn't going to be reviewing it but uh last Friday I saw him do like a real underplay in San Diego like a 250 cap venue and they're playing like thousand several hundred caps in other cities and it was awesome uh they're such a good live band they are so committed like they never phoned it in and you know with this record if we're going to talk about like heavy like metal heavy lean meaning albums with some accessibility. This is sort of like how I felt with the last Jeff Rosenstock album where I'm feeling like,

yeah, maybe I've heard all I need from this band and I'm not going to feel as emotionally attached to it. But this record's just, it's not like their best record. I'd still put stage four up there, but it's the one I'm probably going to return to the most because it has this more like accessible alt rock edge. It's got a Lou Barlow feature. the only record you'll hear in 2024 with Julian Baker and Lou Barlow features

but great band like just great people and this album if you like some of the things I've recommended here that are more kind of screamo but you're like I kind of want some hooks I think you're going to like this record yeah I like this band a lot

and Jeremy had me on his podcast so I of course like him that was a joke but I do like him a lot He's a really nice guy. So yeah, definitely check that record out. I want to talk about a record by another really nice guy, Tim Heidecker. That's a new album out today called Slipping Away. And like, look, Tim Heidecker obviously is a comedy legend.

We all know Tim and Eric. Office hours, all the many funny things that Tim has done. But it's been really fascinating watching him have this side career as a heartfelt and earnest singer-songwriter. I think for a long time, people did. know how to approach his records because it seems so out of character from what we know about him in his comedy career. But this is really Tim Heidecker, the person stepping out from the persona that he has as a comedian. And really writing, I think songs that are really quite touching and kind of gently witty about, you know, just the kinds of things I guess that are totally in my

wheelhouse. I mean, he's basically writing songs about the kind of life I lead as a person in his mid-40s who's a dad and is trying to navigate life as best that he can. And, you know, I know Tim a bit and we basically have identical tastes in music. So, you know, the palette that he's drawing from on this album, which is basically like a 70s style singer-songwriter record. I mean, this album is more of a band album. He has like a really good band that he tours with called The Very Good Band. And I think this is a little, this rocks a little harder, I think, that some of his other records. There's almost like a Rolling Stones feel, I think, to some of these songs. But again, at the center is this voice that is just kind and wise, and I just find it to be really touching and fun.

And, of course, this is a great patio music record. I think it should go without saying at this point. So, yeah, if you know Tim is a comedian, but you haven't checked out his records. I actually think this album is a good entry point for doing that. It's really good. It does a great job. I like the record a lot. It's called Slipping Away.

Tim Heidecker, enjoy it on the patio while you still can before winter comes down. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email. box.