Indiecast - Snail Mail + The Best Movie Soundtracks

Episode Date: November 5, 2021

After her 2018 debut Lush catapulted Lindsey Jordan into the spotlight, she was suddenly working harder — and more regularly — at the age of 18 than most people work in their lives. The tours, interviews, and TV appearances kept coming, and with them a growing cult of personality surrounding Jordan. All of this and more is explored on Valentine, the new album from Snail Mail. Where 2021 found many artists scaling back their productions into its more bare bones (see: Clairo and Lorde), Jordan used the opportunity to flesh out the Snail Mail sound substantially. Valentine is full of piano, synths, strings, and even boasts jazzy bass lines and tinges of R&B.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Ian is plugging Sup, the latest LP from Super American, and while Steve is promoting the latest effort from Neal Francis, In Plain Sight.You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the new album by Snail Mail. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, my favorite non-fungible token, Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

I think I'm quite fungible. Thank you very much. But yeah, we can go back to all the discussions that we had about what's going to happen when I finally say something about, I don't know, Chugel that gets me booted off this podcast. But, um, you would not chugel, though. You, you, it's impossible to be, it's impossible to be anti-chugal. I don't know how anyone would strike out against that. You know what?

You know what? You live in San Diego. Sunny all the time. Perfect chugel weather. Is it, though? Absolutely. People don't really chugel out here. It's more like kind of a reggae, a pop reggae loop.

Well, CCR is, I guess, northern California, not southern. California. Yeah, very different. So maybe they're Trugel more up in the north than in the south. That's right. It's a little more like kind of foggy and swampy up there. San Diego, not a Chugel town. However, I feel like I really am podcasting from the Indycast capital of America,

at least for this week, because there are a couple of things that are happening in America's finest city as it's known. Like, that's the actual name, I think San Diego gave itself. But I took a look at Casbah presents Casab being one of the main music venues in San Diego. And I just want to tell the listeners what is happening in San Diego from Wednesday, November 3rd to Monday and November 8th. Here are headliner acts, all on different nights, all on consecutive nights. We have we had no joy, Cloud Nothings, an Indycast favorite. then on Saturday Night Strand of Oaks, followed by Riley Walker on Sunday night,

which is like two people, I think, that are the biggest friends of the pod in the Indicast, in the Indicast realm. And then on Monday night, the 8th, Tokyo Police Club, which I feel is like, that's like the band I think has been mentioned in our mailbag more than any other. Like, the Indycast listenership is a Tokyo Police Club fan. club. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the, the,

it, you know, the, the, you should be hanging up some, uh, like, Indycasts merch at these venues, maybe even branded as, like, Indycast presents, even though we're not officially presenting the shows. Yeah. Are there people, like, just in San Diego, hashing out trends, like, right? under our nose? Like, ah. I think it's become a movement.

It's become a movement of hashing out trends. It's slowly rolling out into the country because trends start on the coasts. Yes, the coastal elite. The coastal elites, that's where the trends start. It's also where the hashing out trend starts. And then in like two or three years, it'll finally filter to where I live in the heartland of America here in Minnesota. So we're looking forward to that.

I see too that the first tour date of the pavement reunion tour is in San Diego. Yeah. And I know that's a strategy sometimes with bands. What happens was the tour will start in San Diego because they kind of want to play a show that isn't going to be covered as much. It's kind of like a practice run for when they play L.A., which is usually the first big-time show. And, you know, bands will tell me, we don't really like playing San Diego all that much because the crowds aren't as good. And San Diego is stuck in the 90s, which may work to pavement's advantage here, you know?

Well, exactly. That might be the thing. The 90sness of San Diego is going to be attractive to a band-like pavement. I've heard that same thing about Vancouver, you know, that a lot of bands will start tours in Vancouver. I think, for instance, you two will often start their tours in Vancouver. I covered the tour launch. of their tour in 2015 and it was in Vancouver. Vancouver, beautiful city, by the way. I don't know if we

have any Indycast listeners in Vancouver, but I really like that city a lot. I'm excited about the pavement tour. I saw them in 2010 and I loved it. I know there's mixed reviews of that tour. I think the first show they played was at Pitchfork Festival. Was it? Okay. I saw him at Coachella. It was like one of the first and it wasn't very well. received at pitch. No, they looked visibly bored. But the show I saw, I saw them maybe two months after that. I thought they were fantastic. They were, they were locked in, great set. They were having a lot of fun. Stephen Malcolmus was like dancing around stage with this guitar, very rock star. I'm wondering, is this an area of contention for you and I? Because I love pavement. I feel like I've

heard you take shots at pavement in the past. So you don't like pavement? Like, why don't you like pavement? So here's the deal. I mean, I know that we talk on Twitter sometimes about bands that people profess to love on Twitter and they don't really listen to in real life. Oftentimes, that's like Tom Waits or Sonic Youth. Those are the bands that are usually brought up as examples. Both great. And I will say I honestly love both of those acts. I just need to put that caveat in there. Tom Wait, San Diego Native. Anyway, um, Yeah, I think with Pavement with me, it's kind of a bit to mock them on Twitter.

I do like Pavement. I do listen to Pavement, particularly the first two albums. I know that Bright in the Corners was a huge album for me in high school, and now it's kind of embarrassing to some of the lyrics. It gets a little cringy. But you know what? Ooh. You're just slipping that one in there.

Like, that is an unimpeachable opinion. I like Brighton the Corners a lot. I fast forward through stereo. Like that, and that's the first song. So, but, um, some of my favorite payments are a great song. Some of my favorite favorite songs are on that out. I love Starlings of the strips, starlings of the slipstream, like, uh, type slowly, like the softer ones.

But anyway, I kind of, I like payment. I kind of hate their influence on indie rock. Um, so that, that, that, I mean, I think maybe people feel this way about Pearl Jam in a way. Um, how, you know, it's like, oh, I love this band. I just kind of dislike what they hath wrought as far as bands sort of taking on that image or that singing style, but not really having the chop. But pavement to me has almost a non-existent influence at this point in Indy Rock. I don't really hear anyone that sounds like them. I know people always call parquet courts a pavement rip-off, which I've never understood that.

They don't sound anything like pavement to me. I don't understand the, like, what am I missing that, like, were there a pavement rip-off? I can hear other post-punk bands in parquet chorus, but pavement to me, it's just never really been there. Like, Parquet chorus is a much more sort of propulsive band. And I think that pavement as being a more chill band. Yeah, I also think, though, that, like, the kind of lyrical style, it's both, like, kind of slack, but very smart.

I think there's just, like, a sort of mood. But Andrew Savage's vocals, though, are nothing like Stephen. Malcolm's vocals. I mean, he's a much more sort of gutteral, aggressive singer, and Melchmus is more laid back. I don't know, it's a pervasive comparison, so obviously other people are hearing it. I've just never understood that comparison. But so obviously, I know Stephen Melchmus once had a quote where he said, he heard a parquet court song in a coffee shop or something, and he thought it was a pavement song. Isn't that like the Neil Young quote about hearing horse with no name? Yeah.

Well, Bob Dylan said that when he heard Heart of Gold that he thought it was one of his songs that he didn't remember writing. So I don't know. So apparently musicians are just hanging out in coffee shops, hearing songs with other people and thinking that they wrote them. I was in the hipster coffee shop. It's like that tweet. Yeah, like I want artists to make up quotes like that all the time.

Like just kind of side-eyeing bands. So, you know, good for them. Yeah. When I listen to other indie rock podcasts, I always think, oh, that's Indycast. but it's not. It doesn't have all the hashed, it doesn't have the trend hashing that we have on this show. Should we talk about the Adele story?

Thank God. Thank God Indicast isn't relying on vinyl, man, because we wouldn't be able to put on a podcast for like another five years, thanks for her. Let's explain this. So apparently Adele for her upcoming album, which is called 30, a huge indie rock album, by the way, 30 by a huge indie rock album, by the way, 30 by Adele. But anyway, she's ordering, or she's pre-ordering 500,000 vinyl copies to ship out. Presumably feeling like this is going to be a huge vinyl purchase for people when it comes out.

I tend to think that this album is going to end up being like the Herb Alpert album that you see at Goodwill. You know what I mean? Like when we were kids and you'd go to Goodwill and you want to buy vinyl, it always be like a Herb Alpert album and maybe like the Saturday Night Fever Soundtr. track or Fracton comes alive. Like in 2013, it's going to be Adele 30, I think, at Goodwill's across the country. But anyway, the larger issue here

is that you have scores of smaller bands, indie bands, and everyone is smaller than Adele. In the music industry. But there's a huge backlog of artists waiting to get their vinyl, and now here's Adele

basically just hogging. all the resources for herself. And it's an interesting example of what's going on in the music industry probably at large right now, that you have a very small 1% of artists who dominate everything, and there's really no middle class anymore, and everyone is below that 1% and they're scrambling for the scraps. Well, first off, I appreciate you deviating from what would be the expected indie. cast reference for

used albums. Usually that's like Monster or Fairweather Johnson in the UCD store. But I meant like for vinyl. Yeah. Like the vinyl record. Like when you go to buy vinyl. I never heard that one with Herb Alpert.

But that is like a... The whipped cream and other delights. That album is. That's everywhere. Yes, it is. I'm sure if you go to Goodwill now, you can still find a copy of Herb Alpert's whipped cream and other delights.

Yeah. So, I mean, this is a very, this is very interesting as a talking point because like on, I would say at least half of our episodes, we kind of consider the ultimate effect of like what happens when like music journalists or publications genuflect the power when they dedicate, like what are essentially virtual resources to the biggest pop acts because, you know, indie bands or indie listeners will say, well, how is our band going to get coverage? And, you know, there's kind of unlimited internet. But what we've seen after the pandemic is, you know, first it was touring where, you know, once

venues started to open up, indie, like smaller indie bands are like, well, all the holds are being taken up by bigger bands and there's only so many venues. So we're kind of fucked. We can't get out on the road. And now with vinyl, once again, there's only so much vinyl to go around. And I don't know if it's Adele herself so much as like the label or the vinyl manufacturers, because I don't know about the deals, but like 500,000. Dell Vinals, those are going to move.

You are guaranteed to sell those. I don't know if they're going to end up being back in whatever Goodwill exists in 2031, but people are saying, are there 500,000 Adel Vinyl buyers? Absolutely there are. Like, even if you just hang it on your wall, people are, I have like so little doubt that 500,000 Adelcy Vinals are going to move. As a matter of fact, they probably are going to need to do like a second. repress. I would love to see like the Brooklyn vinyl exclusive, like the black splatter or like all

these like how indie bands like make like 10 different variants of like the same vinyl where it's just like this is green splatter or this looks like a Neapolitan. I hope Adele does that as well. Like the urban outfiters exclusive too. This is a this is a quick tangent here but did you see that one of the songs on the new Adele record is called I Drink Wine? Hey who can relate? I mean, does this show that Adele is getting a little meta on her records now? I mean, that just seems almost like a Adele parody track that she's sneaking under her own album. You know, I don't want to get too much into this because I think I'm going to write a column on this at some point in the next few weeks. Horting the gold, aren't you?

Well, but I feel like a conversation that's not happening right now around a topic like this. because, you know, when we talk about Adele either, I mean, inadvertently screwing over indie bands, I mean, that's not her intention, but this idea that, you know, she's putting out all this, all this vinyl, and that might make it difficult for an indie band that needs vinyl when they're going on tour to sell to fans. It's going to make it maybe harder for them to be able to press their records. A conversation that I don't think we're having is why are people so obsessed with buying vinyl as a physical music item. I mean, I'm a buyer of physical music. So I'm, you know, I'm in favor of that. And I also like the idea that you're going to buy a vinyl record because you want to support the band that you love.

I think that's a great idea. But, you know, I see like a lot of indie bands now, you go on Band Camp and they might have, you know, the digital version of the record that you can download and they have a vinyl. And they're not even bothering to press a CD anymore. Even though CDs, are cheaper. I think they sound better. You know, you don't need like a $10,000 turntable to make a CD sound good. You can buy a $5,000 boombox from, you know,

a thrift store and it'll sound as good as anywhere else. I just feel like, can we just admit that vinyl's overrated at this point and that maybe, maybe that if your favorite band is having a really hard time pressing records, that as music fans, we should just decide, hey, maybe we'll buy this other format that in many ways is better than vinyl. I know it doesn't have the totemistic appeal to it.

But honestly, you know, we make fun of NFTs. How is vinyl different than an NFT? I mean, isn't it just as like excessive in a lot of ways? Yeah, but I can, like if I were like a 20-something like single dude, I could hang up like a vinyl copy of unknown pleasures or something like that and, you know, get my personality across in a way that an NFT, couldn't. But yeah, I mean, we're kind of joking about this, but I remember a few weeks or maybe months ago, our friend of the pod, Alex from the band Infant Island, talked about how the next

Infant Island album probably wouldn't be coming out until 2023 because of a, because of vinyl delays. And with, I mean, I think I've, I own vinyl, but like not actively. I think that I think the vinyl oversaturation point actually came like, I swear to God, this happened literally yesterday. I walked into the kitchen at work and they were listening to Death Grips and they were A, shocked that I knew who they were. And B, this person's like, yeah, I own the money store on vinyl. And I don't know if, like, you really need to hear I've seen footage on vinyl to get all the warmth and nuance of a Death Grip's track that is, that they intended. But I mean, I don't know. I, I, I don't know. I, I, I, I was, I'm like, as we speak, looking on Amazon at Discman, and like, I'm sorry, man.

I got it. I want the megabase version. Like, I want to hear my favorite albums with megabase. Yeah, you got to have the megabase. The digital megabase. There's no megabase on a turntable, baby. You can't, there's no megabase button on there. You know, your death grip story made me think about that story about James Gandalfini and Duky.

I think we talked about this on the show at some point. That's like indie. That is like in like wheelhouse indie cast. It involves the Sopranos, Duky, and Vinyl. Yeah, I mean, there's a story Michael and Perlioli told that James Gandalfidi liked to listen to Duky on vinyl in his trailer on the set of the Sopranos. And it's like, I love James Gandalfini, but Duky is a CD, okay? That is like the CD.

That is the format it originated in. This is not a blue note jazz record from the 50s. that you're buying on vinyl because that's the way it was originally pressed, and maybe you feel like, well, this is the way I need to listen to this. I need to listen to John Coltrane on vinyl. Dookie is not that, okay? It is a CD. And I just feel like if we're at the point now where indie bands have to delay the release of their record a year or even two years,

in the instance of, was it Infant Island, you said? Yeah, Infant Island. And also, like, our boy, Keegan from Camp Trash said that their album release was delayed by five months for the same for the supply chain a bottleneck and i mean music fans are the ones we're creating that i i you know i i just think we have to own that as music fans we can blame adele but that is us saying no we need to buy vinyl and we're going to make we're going to make these bands wait because we need our vinyl records and i just feel like do you need to buy vinyl like all the time. Why not CDs? I like CDs a lot. I have vinyl too, but I just feel like the,

the cult of personality around vinyl, if an object can have a cult of personality, it can. It's just out of control. I just think we need to rein it in a little bit. But I also think, I don't know what the profit margins are with vinyl. I don't know, like, how reliant bands are on that to make income. I mean, wouldn't a CD be cheaper to produce? I think so. I mean, it's hard for me to believe that the profit margin, I mean, I guess you can charge way more for a vinyl record, but I just feel like a CD, is that less than a dollar to produce?

I guess I don't know. Yeah, I forget, it's been extremely, it's been an extremely long time since I bought, you know, that spindle of blank CDs to go to the radio station and, like, and dub the copy of ours distorted lullaby. So I can't really say what the pricing is. been saying. Good job working in

hours reference. That's going to be something we do in every episode. Just dropping references to distorted lullabies. So I don't know. I imagine we're going to get some mailbag questions about what I just said and I understand. Look, look, buy what you want, you know,

support bands any way that you can. I'm just merely suggesting that you don't always have to buy the vinyl. And it might be good to buy another format sometimes. That's all I'm saying. But I think I'm going to write something about this soon. I've been threatening to write a take down piece about big vinyl for a while now.

I think I need to finally follow through on that. Big, big vinyl watch out, man. You're day's number. I know, I know the, it's going to, I'm like Russell Crowe and the insider. You know, they're going to be putting bullets in my mailbox, you know, from, like Jack White will be sneaking. We'll be sending private detectives after me. Let's get to our mailbag segment. And thank you all for writing.

It's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycastmailbag at gmail.com. You can also interact with us on Twitter at Indycast 1. And that's always a fun place. Yeah. You have good times over there. You had a good tweet recently about... Oh, you're going to give me shit about not...

About hoarding my own personal goal. Well, no, no. Sometimes you tweet things from your personal account Or I'm like, this would kill on the Indycast account. It's almost too niche for your own account. But for the Indycast account, it would have been perfect. But I was just going to compliment you on your tweet comparing band photos of War on Drugs and Wilco. Yeah.

Because there's like a mini trend of bands just going and like sitting on couches and beds and small apartments. And Spoon did one like the next day where it was like five guys in a slightly bigger room. So it's like, okay, I guess Austin's still technically changed. cheaper than those two cities. Well, they were, the spoon was like at a restaurant. Oh, okay. And like the other guys are sitting at a table, like drinking soda.

And then Britt Daniels like sort of like lording over them. Yeah. Like he's going to go Robert De Niro in the untouchables like with a baseball bat and just knock someone out. It's kind of a weird photo. But anyway, let's get to our questions here. Do you want to read the first one? Yeah.

Because I mean, God, we're talking about CDs. this one's really, this is like the epitome of Indycast mailbag questions. So it comes from Brennan in Minneapolis, Minnesota. First, yeah, there, that is Indicast territory. That's right. We had a lot of San Diego talk today. I'm glad that we can wrap Minneapolis, the other headquarters for Indicast. So the other night, my wife and I were going on a nostalgia trip,

listening to soundtracks that were formative for us in our youth again, And now that we're both white guys here on Indycast, this is like almost like an Indycast mailbag bot so far. Anyway, so some of the soundtracks they were listening to were cruel intentions. Intro to Cebo, Blur, and the best county crow song of all time. Wow, that's colorblind. Yes, Batman Forever. This soundtrack shouldn't be as good as it is. Romeo and Juliet, top five radio head song of all time.

Of course, we're talking about talk show host. Yes. the bridge between the Benz and OK computer, transpotting, the crow, and more. It would seem the importance of soundtracks is dissipated in the age of streaming. I have a memory of my mom dropping $20 plus Sam Goody for the reality bites soundtrack,

strictly because of Lisa Loeb's stay. Wow. So I have two questions. One, what is your favorite movie soundtrack of all time? And two, in the era of Spotify playlist, Siri and Shazam and Inson Access, does the movie soundtrack still have any cultural significance aside from a playlist to enhance a film experience, or is it only really relevant

in the case of a production like In The Heights or other musical-driven movies? Love to hear your thoughts. Brennan, Minneapolis. Yeah, you know, thank you for Brennan for the great question. I was trying to think of the last really impactful soundtrack. Black Panther. I was going to say, that's the only one I could think of. Beyonce did that one for...

Oh, yeah. The Lion King? Yeah, for the Lion King. But I feel like that didn't really move the needle. No, nowhere near as much as the original Lion King. But yeah, like, I thought of Black Panther, and I really couldn't think of other ones, of original material. Yeah, I mean, it really was like the 80s and 90s.

Yeah. Seems like that was the peak of soundtracks. Like, what are your favorites? Okay, so, I mean, you would think that the, well, if we're going to restrict it to, like, soundtracks of mostly original material, um, you would think singles is, like, the obvious indie cast choice.

but if you look on Spotify right now, it doesn't have the Mother Lovebone song. It doesn't have the Mud Honey song about Seattle being overexposed. And also, it doesn't have fucking drown. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah.

You can only get like the three and a half minute edit of drown on Spotify. And like, of course. You don't want that. Yeah, of course like that just sort of gives lie to the fact that singles is meant as like a Seattle scene soundtrack. Like the best song is from a Chicago band. Paul Westerberg kind of holds the whole thing together. Well, I wouldn't say it was the best song because the two Pearl Jam songs are pretty classic.

Those are like the really good Pearl Jam songs. But, you know, I have to give some honorable mentions. Last Action Hero. Terrible movie. Really great pop metal soundtrack. It's got Def Leopard, ACD's Big Gun, a seven-minute anthrax song, which is kind of tight. I think that Romeo and Juliet for talk show host, but also Garbage is number one crush, very much of its time.

The sneaky great cruel intention soundtrack. That was a mainstay when I worked in the Gap at 1988. There was a song from David Garza called Slave, which I can still remember the chorus despite not having heard it in 22 years. Imagine my surprise when I found out, like, the slave guy was a big contributor to fetch the bolt cutters. Now, not to get into another pronunciation battle on this show, but is it David Garza?

I remember it probably is. Fuck. Like the most pretentious pronunciation of David ever. I don't know. Maybe it's like, maybe it's like I know in other countries or they may be pronounced like that. But anyway, also like that, that soundtrack was like that epitomized like the grunge singer-songwriter going a little more matured. It's got Scott Weiland, Lady Your Roof brings me down, Chris Cornell doing sunshower and the best David, The best Dunkin Sheik song.

Which one? Wishful thinking? Oh, wishful thinking's on there. Hours over barely breathing. And she, uh, she, whatever that other song is. She runs away. Yeah, she runs away. But if I got to choose one for like the most impact of the original material, it's got to be the crow.

Oh. The cure is burned. That's like their best song post wish. It's got big empty on it. That's how I discovered. Yeah. That's how I discovered Joy Division through a nine-inch nails cover. some pretty good Pantera helmet and Rage Against Machine B-Sides.

But for me, the reason I still listen to The Crow to this day is the Rollins band cover of Suicides Ghost Rider. This is like the funniest song I've ever heard in my life. Oh, man. That's a golden oldie right there. Yeah. You know, it took me years to realize that it was actually a cover and not like Rollins band's big, big follow. up to liar. That's a funny song, too.

We should do a Rollins Band episode because there's some pretty funny Rollins Band. Yeah, Rollins Band, it was like sort of like if the idea of pissed jeans wasn't fully developed yet. But yeah, like, it's not, I'm like just laughing thinking about it. I got to like, I got to let you take the lead here because if I think, more about Rollins band covering Ghost Rider. I'm just going to like laugh. Like Mr. Burns thinking about the crippled Irishmen.

There's a whole generation of people out there, I feel like, that only know Henry Rollins from Black Flag or they know him for doing spoken word stuff. I feel like Rowland's band is a lost chapter in a way. Yeah. Henry Rowland story. You don't really hear a lot of callbacks to Rollins band at this time. But like, you know, in the early 90s, they were a pretty popular band. Yeah.

I remember. self-opinion. He was like doing like motivational speaking. I don't know. I just want to start a band to just say for no real reason, yeah, we're really influenced by weight era Rollins band just to see if like people will reprint that. You should be in a band that covers Henry Rollins cover of Ghostwriter. Like you play Ghostwriter in the style of Rollins band. Don't forget to burn. Like I was so disappointed when I learned that like kind of outro ad-libbing was not actually. on the original. Yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, take that suicide. Henry Rollins, he totally won up to you with that one. It's like the all along the watch towering of it.

It's now an definitive version. Way more comic. So you covered the 90s really well there. I feel like you mentioned every significant 90s soundtrack, at least in the rock realm. In the rock realm. I mean, there's so many great rap soundtracks that we can't get to. So I just want to cover some 80s soundtracks that I like. And for those of you out there who are still listening to the War on Drugs album on repeat, I know I've been doing that this week, there's some really great soundtracks for like shiny A-O-R rock in like the mid-80s. Three particular that I really like are Miami Vice, the TV show, not the film.

You got Jan Hammers theme song, which is just one of the coolest theme songs of all time, probably the coolest theme song of all time. You have the Color of Money soundtrack, which has a totally ridiculous Don Henley song on there. It has Werewolves of London by Warren Zvon. There's like some bluesy songs on there. There's Eric Clapton. It's in the way that you use it on that.

That's Ayr Clapton? That's Clapton, yeah. I know that. Fuck, man. I'm like in the wood panel basement of like my neighbors right now. now. Right. Oh my God. And look, I know Clapton is canceled, but you know, cheesy beer commercial Clapton, I still have a soft spot for. So that's on that soundtrack. And the third soundtrack I have to mention is the Top Gun soundtrack. Of course, you got...

Hellman, San Diego. Another San Diego rough. Are you taking money from like the San Diego, like, Chamber of Commerce? I'm selling out if they're buying. So... Major product placement for San Diego in this episode. But, uh, yeah, I've gone, obviously, you have Danger Zone, Kenny Loggins on there. You also have an amazing cheap trick song on there. And again, it's just, it's the epitome of like mid-80s, synthy rock with a beer commercial edge. So those three soundtracks I really like from the 80s. And I'm also going to co-sign on pretty much every 90s soundtrack that Ian mentioned. And I'll just say that in the case of the single soundtrack, which would probably be my favorite. If I was going to, if I was

going to mention if I had to pick one out of all these. It's another case for buying CDs because you will get all those songs that aren't on the streaming services. You will get the long drown. You'll get the mother love bone song, which is the greatest mother love bone song. It's Crown of Thorns. Yeah, Chloe dancer as well. Yeah. Yeah, the Chloe dancer sort of prologue to that, which really makes that song great. It's like the grunge November rain. It really is. It really is. So definitely find that on CD if you can. Let's get to our second question. This comes from Adam and Oxford, Mississippi.

I've always wanted to go to Oxford. I heard that's a really cool town. Oxford Rules. I got invited to do a reading there once, but I would have had to, it would have been a one-off. I would have had to drive there and go back. It really seemed worth it. But maybe on my next book.

I have a book coming out next year. Anyone in Oxford, if you want to invite me to come, I'd love to go there. I heard it's an awesome town. I've loved the recent boom in Heartland Rock, exemplified by the War on Drugs and other Steve Hyden favorites, such as Strait of Oak, Sam Fender, and the last two albums by The Killers.

However, I always associated Heartland Rock with country-fied 80 sound, like John Kruger Mellencamp, early Steve Earle, and Tom Cochran's Life is a Highway. Why is the more shimmery 2020 sound still called Heartland Rock if it's removed from its country Americana Root? is it simply a Bruce Springsteen homage?

More importantly, if I enjoy modern Heartland Rock, what are some relevant bands from the 90s and 2000s? Thank you, Adam. That's a great question. Yeah, it is a great question. And I feel as if anything I say is just going to be mere prologue to, because this is like right up your alley. But I have thought about that as well because, you know, Heartland Rock is now kind of seen as like the War on Drugs, a band from Philadelphia, who now lives in L.A.

But I think Heartland Rock, like a lot of genres starts out as like being descriptive of what it actually is. You know, like for example, emotional hardcore, rhythm and blues. And eventually it just kind of gets turned into a vibe, you know, like, oh, that's emo, that's R&B, kind of getting away from like the etymological roots of the genre. you know, just to put on my University of Texas press hat there. And but but now like I think with Heartland Rock, it's just kind of more a vibe. If it makes you think of like being in a station wagon, then it's Heartland Rock. I mean, I think the Hooters and we danced is Heartland Rock, even though that dance from Philadelphia. Is Bruce Springsteen like, I mean, does that mean New Jersey's the Heartland Rock?

Heartland as well, or is it just kind of like a blue collar sort of thing? Yeah, well, and also Tom Petty is often used now as a Heartland Rock signifier, even though he's from Florida and then made his name in California. Gainesville is kind of, that's kind of heartland. Yeah, I mean, I think now when people talk about Heartland Rock, what they're really saying is that it's reminiscent of born in the USA and maybe full moon fever, like those two albums. So it is more on the Cynthia, side than what Adam is pointing out here, which I think is a totally relevant point, which is that, you know, someone like John Mellencamp, who's from Indiana, the actual heartland, if you wanted to find it. Like songs oftentimes about indie, like about the heartland. And or someone like Bob Seeger, who's from Michigan. And those two guys haven't really been absorbed into the indie rock canon in the same way that Springsteen and Petty have.

And it's a really interesting breakdown because in the 80s they were all grouped together. They would have all been described as Heartland Rock. And really now, someone like John Mellencamp, you hear his influence on country music. It's called country music. Someone like Chris Stapleton, you know, Eric Church. The life is a highway cover I hear in the supermarket all the time. Yeah, exactly. So in a way, like John Mellencamp side, you could argue is even more influential because

people like Eric Church and Chris Stapleton, they sell way more records than the War on Drugs who are a really popular band. But Chris Stapleton is one of the biggest stars in modern music right now. You know, in terms of bands from the 90s and 2000s, you know, there was that bumper crop of bands

that were influenced by Springsteen in the 2000s. You know, the Hold Steady. I think drive-by truckers would be in that camp. You know, Gaslight Anthems, 59 sound. I think that was a little boss influenced. Absolutely.

I think you could group those all into the Heartland Rock umbrella in that era. Certainly Arcade Fire at the time of Neon Bible in the suburbs, those are two pretty Heartland Rocky albums

in terms of the modern definition. I would actually say that like Arcade Fire, they were doing what the War on Drugs are doing now before the War on drugs, but then they went in the reflector direction. and the War on Drugs just stole their mojo with loss in the dream.

And they've assumed that. I mean, Arcade Fire is still really popular. Yeah. But they went for more of a lyrical approach as well as far as like Heartland Rock. They were more like kind of big and conceptual and, you know, kind of subjected themselves to more potential embarrassment. Right. You know, Arcade Fire, they're an intriguing band. I'm really curious to see what they do on their next record, which I feel like I'm going to regret.

At some point, I know after everything now, I think I even wrote this in my review that I was like, I'm good, I'm checking out of this band now. You know, let me know when they make another album as good as the suburbs. But it's been a while now, and I'm curious, because they're one of those bands that I feel like I dislike as much as I like. You know, they're very hit or miss for me, but I'm always going to be curious about what they do,

because when they hit, they hit big. Oh, yeah. So, you know, maybe the next one will be another classic. We'll have to see. Let's get to the meat of our episode. Snail Mail, also known as Lindsay Jordan, her new record, Valentine is out today. It's the follow-up to her 2018 debut Lush, which is one of the more acclaimed indie albums of the last few years, I would say. And like the first record, the new album is very personal.

Lindsay's singing a lot about romantic turmoil, breakups going on. She's also singing a lot about indie fame. And that's... I wrote a review of this record that was published on Thursday on Up Rocks. And that was something I wrote a lot about in my review. If you look at the songs on this record,

nearly every song has at least one lyric that could be construed as a reference to Lindsay Jordan basically becoming indie famous, maybe before she was ready to be indie famous. I mean, she was 18 when that first record came out. And there was so much attention on her, so many profiles. She played so many music festivals. At a time in her life, like where most people her age are just, you know,

doing bong rips and playing video games and maybe going to a college class every now and then. A very stressful lifestyle. And it does seem like I took a toll. I mean, she's talked about how she went to rehab for 45 days after that tour cycle ended. And it seemed like she really had to be. to decompress from that period before she made the second record. But now she's back with Valentine. And again, she's getting a lot of positive attention.

This is getting really good reviews. And it seems like she's back on the hype train with this record. And I'm curious, what do you think of this album? Because for me, she's a curious case because I like this record. I liked her first record. I think that there's some hyperbole with how people talk about her. And I want to phrase this carefully because it's similar to our parquet courts conversation that we had an episode or two ago where parquet courts to me, I feel like all their records are good.

I don't think they've made a great record, but I think they make good records. And it's almost like in this age that we're in now, you know, music critics almost feel this compulsion to be hyperbolic about everything because we're so afraid that people aren't going to read our review or listen to the podcast or whatever. So things either have to be great or they have to be terrible

or they have to be world changing or they have to be actively bad for society. And it's like some records are just good and they don't really mean anything beyond that. And I'm kind of there, I think, with snail mail. Okay. I think she's really good but it's also not earth-shattering to me.

Yeah, I mean, if we're talking about like CDs, what's what struck me about this album is that how much like this was a CD for me. I think of it in the context like, well, to backtrack a little, what this album is is a classic breakup album, like a classic indie kind of pop breakup album. It takes the narrative. It has like kind of a conceptual arc. And it reminded me of albums like of transatlanticism or Jimmy World's Futures. Like these albums I listen to at 22 and 23 or 24 years old where I would pretty much generate my worldview about what relationships were like from these very hyperbolic emo pop albums. And I think it, I mean it as a very positive statement that this is what, Valentine reminds me of. It's a very well-proportioned, well-produced,

32-minute album, no filler whatsoever, goes from like, starts off with the banger, and then it has like kind of the funkier songs, and then the quiet song at Song 5. And, you know, I think it's, I think it's a vast improvement over Lush. I thought Lush was very, kind of, kind of dull as far as the music part goes. You know, the lyrics are great. obviously talented, but kind of samey. And I think this one really, uh, expands beyond like the, you know, guitar, like the dry guitar drums bass format. Um, for me, like I thought this would be an album that might be embraced as an album of the year, mostly because there hasn't been this,

you know, like a Lana Del Rey, Norman fucking Rockwell or fetch the bolt cutters like gauntlet. Like, this is it right here. Like this speaks to. our existence in 20, 21. And yet, I think, like, snail mail is, like, kind of a unifier in a way that, in a, in a weird way that Phoebe Bridgers, like, might not be, because I think some people find, like, Phoebe Bridgers a bit much, but, you know, with snail mail, like her kind of being out of the spotlight and not quite projecting that cult of personality, it's kind of easier to delve into this music and not think about all the baggage.

But I think you seem to, like, but also it seems to me just be like a very good, it's like a very good album and doesn't speak beyond itself. You know, in terms of like the album of the year conversation, I'm going to put my money on the Weather Station record as being the critical consensus, at least in the indie world. I could see that being the top pitchfork record of the year. So book that right now.

I'm going to predict the Weather Station record. tops their chart. Even though I know you and I are sort of, what, like me on that album a little bit. I need to go back to it. I know when it came out, it didn't really hit me in a strong way, but I just think there's a lot of goodwill with

just that artist in general and also the climate change aspect of the record. I think music critics are going to latch on to that as it being, as it's speaking to the moment, you know, because that has to be an element in every record that tops, a list. It has to speak to the moment in some way. But also, this album

talks about, like, indie fame, which has been like a common thread amongst artists like Lord and Claro. And I think this album does it in a much more interesting, accessible way. So maybe that's it. I don't know. Yeah, that could. I don't know. I'm putting my money on Weather Station.

So out there, if there's any handicappers out there. You know, the off-track bedding sites, yeah. Right. I don't know if my take's going to move the needle. at all on that, but I'm putting my money on Weather Station topping. I'm going to say the pitchfork list, at least.

And maybe stereo gum. I could see it topping their list. I feel like we have to do a shout out to Brad Cook, who is the co-producer of this record. He's really emerged as one of the... The good Jack Antonoff. Yeah, exactly. Like, one of the big producers in indie rock right now, one of the most notable albums that he did in recent years is St. Cloud by Waxahachi.

and in a way this record reminds me of that one a little bit in terms of just the classiness of the production. And as you said, this album is much more diverse musically than Lush was. Lush was basically a throwback 90s indie guitar record. And there was a lot of talk at the time of like Lindsay Jordan being a shredder. She was called a shredder a lot back then. And she talked about loving Kurt Vile, Steve Gunn, Mark Kopp. You know, people like that.

Maybe she wouldn't talk about Marcoslich now. But anyway, in this album, the guitar is deemphasized much more than was the case on Lush. There's some guitar jams on here. But again, as you said, she's dabbling in R&B. There's a lot of strings on this record. There's a lot of synths. And I think, you know, Brad Cook, his assistance on there, I'm sure, was instrumental, you know, no pun intended. And expanding the palette on this.

record. And he just seems to be like a go-to guy if you just want a good, naturalistic, again, classy sound. And this is a record. It's in a sense like a level-up record. I think you could call it that. It's her, I think, you know, trying to grow beyond the first record. But there's also like a modesty to what snail bail does that I think is mostly endearing, although it prevents me from going over the top with praising this record. Again, I think if it was like a little more ambitious or there was like a little bit more of a grander vision on this record and the, you know, the feeling that you get from a Norman fucking Rockwell, for instance, you know, like where you feel like, well, this is like a major

statement. Like, I don't get a major statement vibe from this album. I think, again, it's a very good record. Maybe the major statement's going to be her third album because, again, she's still really young. I think she's 22 now. So, I mean, she's got a lot of time to evolve and to grow into mature as an artist. I just feel like the modesty of this album might prevent it from being that album of the year candidate that critics really want to go for. Yeah, but I also think in 10 years, like people will look back on this one as being either like kind of like an album like Riloh-Kiley's The Execution of All Things or just,

like an album that's like really, really, really beloved by people. Is this like the shoots too narrow of the mail mail catalog? It could be. I don't, I don't know. I like how O'Inverted World for the Shins, that's more of like a straight ahead guitar pop record. And then they come out with the more ornate elaborate second record. I could see that being a parallel. Yeah, I just, I do think that this out, like it is really hard to find.

And I'm like this, this tight, this well-constructed. and just like filler free and also, it's just such a CD album. Like the kind of shininess of the production, the throwback nature of it. Like, I might just go ahead and buy. And also, I think like the, I know, like the album cover looks like a vinyl album cover,

but man, I just wish they'd make a CD variant of that. So I can, you know, like get back into my, my throwback years of like living in Athens, being 23, like drinking sparks and being like super sad and like not realizing I have like an entire life ahead of me. Ian, I will never argue with you when it comes to buying a CD. Yes.

We're not reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? Yeah, I'm not going to lie. This has not been a great week for me looking into new music. I've been just kind of busy with like some work stuff and I've gotten pretty deep into the Planet Rave playlist on Spotify, reading about like how a lot of TikTok artists and teenagers are into like rave and drum and bass.

So I'm not necessarily going to recommend the Pink Panther's album because like that album doesn't need our help. But I actually like that one a lot. It's like Joyce Manor self-titled if it was like more minute and a half drum and bass songs. But as far as it's an album that's more within our wheelhouse, I want to bring an album from a couple weeks back. It's a super American, a duo from Buffalo, New York. Their album, it's either soup or sup.

It's just capital S-U-P. And it is total defend pop punk music. I've been told it sounds like bands like Set Your Goals, which I've not listened to, but I kind of get the vibe. It's like 2012 pop punk. Someone mentioned that this band could really kill a cover of The Flies Got You Where I Want You. Oh my God.

Yeah, which is a very specific sound, but there is kind of, there's a little bit of like rap cadence on here. There's a bit of a sense of humor. At the same time, it's also just like a really sharp album with like great hooks, like very, very big hooks. You can just kind of tell it's like, yeah, we're just doing the verse here. Okay, we're going to like put in the biggest chorus possible. It's about 22 minutes long. the first song is called Freebird. So you kind of get a sense of what their sense of humor is.

Give it 22 minutes of your time. But more to the point, give it two minutes of your time. And you can tell immediately, like, if you like this kind of thing, you're really going to like this album. So I want to talk about a musician from Chicago. His name is Neil Francis. He has an album called In Plain Sight. It's out today.

It's his second record. Comes after his 2019 debut changes. And Neil, he has a pretty interesting backstory. When he was a teenager, he was considered a piano prodigy, and he actually toured Europe backing up Muddywater's son as he played presumably Muddy Water songs in clubs on the other side of the pond. In the early 2010s, he formed a band called The Herd, which was like a pretty successful kind of funk R&B act,

like a retro throwback band. And then he fell into addiction issues in the mid-2010s. But he cleaned up and now he started a solo career. And on his albums, I would say that he makes what I call record collector rock. Like if you read the Aquarium Dr. Dr. John or the meters or just swampy rock and R&B and funk from the 70s, you will love this album. You know, there's great arrangements, there's great musicianships. There's like really cool, like, instrumental tones, again, that if you are a vinyl buyer, you're going to recognize them and really get into it.

I kind of wish this album came out in the summer because it's excellent barbecue music, although I guess if you're like Ian and you live in San Diego, it's barbecue weather all year round. So you can just throw it on now and enjoy your backyard and have a great time. But, yeah, this is a record I've been playing a lot. It's really fun. Pretty chugally. You know, if I can get another chugel reference into this episode. It's called In Plain Sight. Definitely go check it out by Neil Francis.

That about does it for this episode of IndieCast. Thank you all for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Tate Newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.