Indiecast - Special Bonus Episode: An Interview with Nate Amos of This Is Lorelei

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

Ahead of the release of his great new album "The Singer In My Band," Nate Amos of This Is Lorelei sat down with Steven Hyden for this special bonus episode interview. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello and welcome to Indycast. I'm Stephen Hayden. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie music of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. And sometimes we're lucky enough to talk to great musicians, which is what I'm doing right now. I'm here with Nate Amos of This Is Lorelei and Water From Your Eyes. His new album, The Singer in my band with This Is Lorelei, is out now, or it should be, I think by the time this post, we're in August right now, very humid outside here in Brooklyn. I talked to you last, I I think it was December of 2025. And you were promoting the Hollow Boy record, the record that you did where you revisited a lot of the material from your band camp era. And at that time, you mentioned a record that you already had ready to go.

Was that this record or was that something else? Yeah, that was this record. And I read somewhere that you, when you signed a Madador, which was, I think, a little bit after that, you actually turned this record in like a half hour after that or something like that?

Yeah, it was the first. thing I did after I signed the contract. I thought it would be funny. Because that just seems like, oh yeah, this is teacher's pet, had the class, he's turning in an album, or he's turning his test, I guess, ahead of all the other students. But you also said something in an interview about how you often like to have, like, an album or two ahead of, like, what you're currently releasing.

And is that often the case for you? Yeah. I mean, honestly, if you're doing things through a record label, it takes so long for an album to come out. You know, when I, if I finish an album, the last thing I want to do is just like not make any more music and sit around for a year and a half while I wait for it to come out. So usually by the time an album comes out,

I at least have, you know, some sort of idea of what the next thing is going to be. Preferably, I'm already well into writing it. But that's not so much about staying ahead of the game as it's just kind of like the pace that I tend to make music, which is honestly slowed down a lot since signing to a real label. during the last five years or so. So am I to assume that you're already working on? This is a little I record after this? Yeah, yeah.

No, it's, yeah, it's, uh. Any previews you want to, I know you're promoting this new record, but the next record, is this going to be, you know, the radical change after this record? No comment. Walk me through your creative process. Because, like you said, I mean,

you said that in the last few years, it's slowed down a bit from the pace you had before. And obviously, anyone who knows your work knows that you have this huge backlog of work that you've posted on band camp. But you're still very prolific by, I think, most people's standards, not only with, this is Lorelei, but with your other band, water from your eyes.

Walk me through that process for you. Are you waking up in the morning, reaching for a guitar, reaching for a keyboard, laying an idea down? Do these ideas come and bursts, maybe at certain times of the year? How does that work for you? Um, I just, I try to, uh, you know, in the past before I started touring on a regular basis,

because now like being on tour is just kind of like the default state of my existence. Um, before that started, my default state was very much just like being like, well, it's another day. Like, I'm going to try to make something or two things today. And that was very much, you know, it was very much integrated into my daily routine. Whereas now I kind of have to decide to do that because when I'm not on the road, I'm usually just, you know, trying to decompress and recuperate at home. And that doesn't always lend itself well to, you know, just, you know, just kind of like coming up with something on the spot.

So it's kind of changed. It used to be more about, you know, choosing any moment in time and trying to like collaborate with it, summons something out of it. Um, my, the kind of thought was that like, you know, every moment could potentially give, give birth to a song if I allow it to.

And I actually kind of like, it wasn't a super, like, healthy relationship with writing, because I, a lot of the time, I felt like if I wasn't working on something at all moments, then I was just losing things, because, you know, once a moment in time is gone, it's gone. Now I don't really have the luxury of being that boneheaded about it. I kind of have to be more,

careful and intentional with the time that I spend writing, which is a weird thing because I tried not to consciously come up with ideas. I try to just kind of, you know, wait for the idea that I feel like I didn't have. So trying to be intentional about encouraging a subconscious process is a weird thing. I was going to say I mean there is the it feels like you're talking about like the craftsman part maybe of being a songwriter I mean what you do isn't like this but like in Nashville like how they go to an office every day and it's like you got to write songs today and it's not waiting around for a lightning bolt it's this is my vocation and that intentionality is that in a way what you're talking about I mean there are two different ways to do it that's

definitely how I use or I mean there are more than two ways. to do it, but that's very much how I used to approach it was, you know, yeah, go to work, make something. Now I try to apply that mindset more to, you know, finishing off the ideas that happen some other way. You know, if I have the time to wait around for the, I'll, lightning bolt or whatever that's great if I feel like I need to like pick up the pace a little bit then I'll like kind of like re-enter like factory mode a little bit yeah and sometimes doing that is what enables the more natural ideas to emerge it's just about you know you got to just like get in motion so that you begin thinking in that way I mean you said

something interesting a moment ago where you were saying how you used to almost feel to not constantly make music because you thought, oh, I'm going to lose this idea if I don't get it down. Was that just a matter of getting more mature in your art where you got over that? How did you move on from that? I think I just had a moment where I was just like, this is really stressful. I can't live my whole life like this, you know,

in constant fear of, losing something that I can never get back by, you know, just resting. I began to feel like that was taking its toll on me. And when, you know, that period of time I really, you know, I was definitely like writing, I was making music with the hope that people would listen to it, but it was really more of like a, you know, a discipline. It was like a practice thing. And at a certain point, if you're just kind of like drilling like that,

I felt like I was beginning to hit a little bit of a wall and that I needed to begin to write in a, you know, a more, moderately paced manner. Yeah, it's interesting because I think about one of my favorite songwriters is Robert Pollard. You've got to buy voices. And his method is definitely almost like a vomiting of songs. I'm just going to write 10 songs.

Three of them will be really good. The seven others might not be as great, but the process is valid because of those three great songs. Yeah. And in a way, it feels like when you look at your band camp era, although I think your hit rate was actually pretty high back then, but it seems like you were maybe more in that mode of, I'm just moving through these songs as an exercise.

I'm going to put on a lot of material. But then you were able to transition in a way that, because there's other songwriters like a Robert Pollard that do that, I feel like they always stay in that mode, especially on this record. Again, I'm going to go back to the craftsman term, because I really mean that as a compliment. When I listen to your records,

it reminds me of like the great tunesmiths of that I love of like classic rock history you know or or alternative rock history people that are really good at writing a song it feels like everything in it is well considered been thought out and I feel like you've moved into that arena I feel like people that start out putting out a lot of material don't always make that transition but it feels like you've really kind of done that in a conscious way do you feel like you spend more time on each song now Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, when I'm a, you know, a lot of the time a song that I work on now will, you know, I'll spend more time thinking about it and developing the idea than I would spend on an entire album, you know, in the day. Is there an example on the new record that you would point to? I mean, it depends what degree of intensity you think is nothing. to qualify as like working on something. Yeah.

But in the in the span of time that I spent just daydreaming about the songs on the new album before I actually wrote anything down, you know, three 2020 War II albums could have passed, you know, because I guess I started, you know, rather than going back to like the collaboration with the moment in time. You know, if you can get a really good full idea out of a single moment, then don't touch it ever again. Because if it's just tied to, you know, the smaller of an instance that you can pull a complete idea out of the better. But the hit rate isn't huge on that. Yeah. So I used to want to work exclusively like that. And, you know, you get a lot of song, you know, some that work really well. some that don't work as well.

And, you know, my whole thing was like, well, like, I'm not going to listen to it. I don't care. So I'll just put it all out. Right. But definitely revisiting song concepts as they develop, you know, in different moments. I guess that's the big difference.

You know, this album, there were maybe like a couple songs that came together a little faster than the other ones. but there were no, well, there's a, there's actually, there's a pair of songs on this album called Nitro and Hey, Sarah, is it going to rain forever? And that was a long one. That was the, some of the guitar stuff on, on those songs, it's been, you know,

the things that I've been trying to find out. home for for a long time and same thing with the lyrics like I mean like the parts of the melody of that song I've been bopping around looking for a place to lie down for like four or five years or something so I'm trying to exercise patience as part of my writing process though um so I'm not uh I don't know if I'm an impatient person but I wouldn't qualify myself as like particularly patient when it comes to my own work. So that's been kind of

a big shift. Yeah. Well, it's interesting too because we're talking about this evolution you've had as a songwriter and yet the way you make records I think has stayed the same. Because this record you've made on your... You didn't make this like in a regular studio, right?

No, no. No. No. So you're still making records the way that you have. And in a way, I feel like it's a good check on your songwriting, I because I you always see this with artists that that we all we could name examples we won't say specific people but you know they get better maybe in a lot of ways as a songwriter but the records are less exciting sometimes because they sound more sterile yeah and in their own minds they're thinking I'm getting better and they and they are in a lot of ways but there's maybe something missing from the music just

because the way it's presented sometimes I mean do you feel like in a way that is the draw for you to continue making records that way, like in a sort of DIY homemade way? I mean, there are a couple things. I mean, I can, I just like, I know what I want, I know how I want to present my music, and I know how to make it sound like how I want it to sound because I've, you know, worked that out

over a long period of time. So, you know, in one way, it's just like a, you know, control over my own thing. And also an efficiency thing. It's, you know, like I can, if I have one day where I'm just pacing around my room, like, making edits on something, you know, in three hours I can get done what would take, like, three months if I was emailing back and forth with someone. And the other thing is just like, that's expensive, you know, why would I,

why would I, like, put myself way in the hole to record an album in a studio when I can do it for free in my bedroom? have it sound more like I, you know, I feel like if I went, at some point, I think it would be fun to utilize a professional studio and maybe a producer in like a conceptual way and make an album for that medium. But to me,

the home recording medium is, you know, what I've worked on and how I, am comfortable presenting my work. And frankly, just to my ears, for the most part, all the stuff that's self-in-home recorded these days sounds way better than anything I hear coming out of recording studios. Maybe not technically, but...

Yeah. And that's no shade on recording studios. If anything, I think it's evidence that that stuff has just gotten so good to the point where it's just like there's no you know you need like you need some like blood and guts in the production process

and when you just like you're in a room with you know all this perfect equipment at least for me personally I just like doesn't happen and I say that as someone who I have like worked in studios and other contexts before

and it's just a from a creative standpoint it's just not for me I don't think just to go back to what you said earlier though it's interesting to me you said it might be interesting to work in a studio in a conceptual way.

And my interpretation of that would be like if you wanted to make a record that was reminiscent of a certain producer's style, maybe it'd be interesting to work with. Is that what you mean? Yeah. No, I more so kind of mean like, like if I was going to do that, I think I would want to go like all in. I think what I would do would be to write material ahead of time, give. it to a producer

be like this is your job do it and then I just won't do anything but sing and like actually like

hand over the reins to someone to you know I don't know hire studio musicians someday when I have way more money

maybe I'll do that but you know it's kind of like it sounds like it would be fun but yeah I guess that's what like if I'm I would want to

engage in the you know pro audio recording studio thing in a conscious way so you know I don't have any interest in doing exactly what I do right now just in a recording studio I would want to you know come up with something for the recording studio some something that will only work if I do it in a recording studio rather than, you know, by myself. Well, you do have that aspect of your work where you do work in genres

and sometimes do genre exercise. And when we spoke, you even use the word parody. Yeah. In the same way that like maybe associated with ween or we even talked about like the Beatles on the White album. How there's certain tracks on there where it's like, oh, they're doing like a beach boys type pastiche. Pastiche stuff.

And it feels like there's less of that on the, this new record, but am I wrong about that? Is it maybe more subtle on this record? I mean, I don't know. I think I think I've been, you know, zoning in a little closer on what I, what I tend to write. And I think I've kind of begun like pastishing myself or something. It's like the process is kind of beginning to like eat itself.

was why you know So this is you doing you I don't even know I don't know if it's really like Yeah there's there's less of That on this album as far as I Can tell But you know that's that's something

That has been You know Gradually over the last Four years in Lorelei That aspect of it has been becoming More and more subtle I think. I mean, that's the thing.

It's like, I don't know what it. It all just sounds like noise to me. But, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. One thing you talked about when we last spoke was the bluegrass influence on your music. And that's something that's certainly more pronounced on this record, the title track in particular,

you know, there's banjo and definitely, Some other songs too have Bluegrass maybe country feel to them. You said something really interesting to me where you said every song I write, it's either a bluegrass song or a lullaby, which now that when I listen to your records, I feel like I'm always hearing that. And you made a really specific point

about how you feel like the melodic side of your music derives from Bluegrass. I know your dad played Bluegrass or you were exposed to that as a kid. Can you talk about that? Because I feel like Bluegrass isn't necessarily regarded as like a melodic genre

or at least it's not the thing that people zero in on necessarily like lay people anyway I mean I don't know that that music is so like deeply inside of me it's hard for me to really gauge like

how much a part of my like you know subconscious writing process it is um I guess like and this is one of those things like I remember like

because I said the lullabies or bluegrass thing I said that a couple times and then I began overthinking about it and I was just like what am I talking about is like is that even like remotely correct

but I guess it's so people like you can bring it back up yeah and I can try to remember I was just like dude what was I saying you have to defend this now I think

just kind of like almost like process of elimination i you know in interviews and talking the people one of the things that always comes up is or often comes up is like the sense of melody and and to me my melodies feel very, very normal and just kind of like the obvious answer to whatever the situation is. So, and I feel like maybe that just, that implies that there's some, you know, like Rosetta Stone to that melody style that I have been grained that maybe, you know, other people might not recognize. And I feel like bluegrass is just kind of like the one thing that I have like really deep down in there that like not a lot of the people I've made music with have.

So I guess I've always just kind of by process of elimination assumed that that must have something to do with whatever it is. whatever it is I'm doing, you know. I wonder too, you know, because that is more pronounced that bluegrass countryside of your personality. It's more manifested on this record. And I wonder if on any level you felt emboldened to make that more explicit because of people that kind of make country-ish sounding music now, like MJ Lenderman, Max O'Hatchie, like they've covered your songs.

Yeah. did that in any way kind of make you feel like, huh? People that make Twainey music are covering me, maybe I can have that more of my own music. Yeah, I mean, that definitely, once some of those covers began happening, I've kind of like looked back

of some of my stuff and re-evaluated a little bit. And I was just like, oh God, like, okay, like, well, like, you know, these legit songwriters are doing that. So maybe this is something that I should explore a little more. but I you know the the sound of this album kind of happened in a pretty insular way

but I will say there was one point when Box began picking up steam and you know I've been you know doing like whatever like country tinder's band camp shit like like forever so like I didn't I didn't know that there was like a new wave of Americana indie until journalists told me about it like they're like how does it feel to be a part of this thing and I was just like that's a thing that's

cool but I realized once I became aware of it I realized that um the vast majority of it the kind of like Americana indie is also kind of just like Americana slow core indie and to me like country me I think of bluegrass which is like fast and I was like okay I was like well if I'm gonna get talked about as part of this movement anyway, then I should think about how I want to contribute to it if I'm going to play in this sandbox. And the one thing that I like really was like, okay, well, like there has to be fast. Because I feel like that's, I feel like, um, you know, obviously there's a reason that that doesn't fly as easily and indie rock because, you know, that's like, it's just like a different vibe. But I was like, okay, if I'm going to participate

in this, the least I can do is, you know, pick up the tempo a little bit. Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say that there's a bounciness to this record, musically, that I think sometimes belies the lyrical content. I mean, I don't think it's always like a happy-go-lucky record necessarily, but that point you made about the slow core

sort of juxtaposition with your own record, I think, is very apt. Do you feel like that is a reflection of where you're at in your life? Do you feel like you are in a a bouncy friend of my mom? In a bouncy part? No, I mean, I don't know. You know, I've never thought of it as a

I don't really think of it as a bouncy album. I just think of it as like, you know, not a slow core album. Right. You know. Bouncy and slow car are the only two genres. Yeah, if it's going to be one or the other. Yeah, I don't know. Blue Gar. kind of bounces. That's like the whole thing.

Yeah. I know, and you've talked about this elsewhere, but there was this very important inflection point in your career where you felt like you were making more maybe esoteric or compositionally complex type music. And you were inspired to kind of move in a different direction. I think the way you phrased it was, you know, I wanted music to be fun again. Yeah. And I think you pinpointed like the look around EP, which is one of your band camp releases. I think one of the better ones for sure. Yeah, that was kind of like a little bit of a turning point.

I just had fun making it. I've gotten very serious about, you know, and I have to, you know, I kind of go back and forth because I kind of like have an equal love for. pop music and um and you know styles of music that no one else around me wants to listen to you know yeah um that was i was gonna ask about is there a part of you that would want to go back a little even for just a record yeah i mean a pure noise record i'm sure i will at some point i mean i don't know that uh you know and now that you're on madador they're going to want to hear this like Now is the time to put out your least listenable, marketable record.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I'll just kind of like, I'm just trying to like chill out and let whatever happens, happens. I used to stress so much about making music. And now it's like I can't really stress that hard about making music while dealing with the stress of like having to do all the music career stuff. So I think the only way to survive being a professional musician is to just not worry about the music itself that much. So I try to just let, you know, whatever happens happens.

It's really great to kind of like roll with the like, like I'm not really in control. I'm just like channeling it because then if you make something that sucks, it's not really your fault. It's the universe's fault. Right. Right. Right. Well, I know like Jeff Tweedy wrote a book about songwriting and he talked about that thing. There's a lot of songwriters I like to say that they put the antenna up and God sends Psalms down to their antenna and then that's how they get all the songs.

And he was dispelling that saying, well, no, you actually have to sit down and write songs. And really the freeing thing is freeing yourself from the pressure of it being good all the time. Yeah. Sometimes you just write something. It's not that. great, but it has value because you created it and maybe you move on to something else because you made that thing. Yeah. So you don't have the antenna to go. You don't credit God as your co-songwriter on this record or any of the other ones? Or Satan maybe?

I don't think so. I mean, I don't really like, yeah, I don't know. It's a funny thing because like when people say that, like I understand because like that's like a lot of the time, you know, when the best things happen. for me like if I make something I really like that's kind of out of the blue I kind of sit there I'm just like where did that come from like I have no idea and um there there is something mysterious about it um but I I think of it more as like you know not being like told to do something and channeling it but just like taking taking the time to see like a little like corner of something that hasn't been observed yet it's like kind of just like exploring and

surprising yourself not by channeling god but by just like finding it you know a new hallway yeah you know you didn't interview with the garden guardian recently that was really And one thing you talked about was how, you know, you're in water from your eyes, your band with Rachel Brown. And I think you said something like how fans of that band will walk up to you and say, sick guitar solo or whatever. And then with, and then with this is Lorela, I think the term you use was trauma dumping. That it's a much more sort of intense personal thing. And, you know, it's probably what I deserve for, because I think that's the thing is like a bunch of Laurel, especially like, the box album, like that whole album is just me trauma dumping on a bunch of people.

I mean, to a certain extent, but it is like there, it feels sometimes the conversations that happen with Lorelei fans are more serious and it can be heavy and, you know, in a in a perfect world, I would love to be able to talk. to everyone who has something that they need to talk about. But I can't do that. I just don't have the time to do that. There are too many people, and that's why I, you know, and I think that's part of why I write, you know,

at least some of the ways that I do is in pursuit of this connection with people. And so when people feel comfortable talking about things that are really personal to them, it's very gratifying as a writer because I know I've at least like, you know, done my bare minimum job, which I think of as like getting people's wheels turning, thinking about whatever it is that they need to be thinking about. but it it can it can be a really heavy thing

to to deal with on a regular basis and you know people are really nice you know obviously like you know there are punishers everywhere

and you got to like figure out how to because that's the thing is like I'm not like trying to like you know I'm not trying to be mean to anybody I wish I had time but just well what I thought was

interesting about that is that on top of what you've written about and this is laurel I, I also felt like there's the expectation that people have that changes depending on the context that your music is presented in. It's one thing if you're a member of this like weird art pop band or if you're in the guys of the singer-songwriter. And it seems like people just associate, oh, he's a guy by himself with a guitar, it's going to be a more emotional and more personal and maybe I feel in bold and you're the same guy, but you're like in a different context, you know, I thought that was, like to me, that was my read on that. Yeah. That people maybe take something different from the music because of what you're writing about, but also because of the way you're presenting it,

if that makes sense. No, totally. You know, and just what the music is at a fundamental level. I mean, That's the thing is like Laurelis is about, you know, engaging with yourself. Water from your eyes is way more cryptic. And, you know, if for me it's like, yeah, you know, pretty much like what I said of the interview? If someone wants to talk to me after Water from Your Eyes show, it's usually like about guitar or like something nerdy in composition. Right. As Laurelite's a little more like, you know, people just want to get real close and make eye contact. And I get a little freaked out sometimes.

Yeah, it's different when you're in a room by yourself playing these songs that are personal. And then all of a sudden you're confronted with the results of that at the show. Like, oh yeah, I'm moved by your song and now I want to talk to you about it. Yeah, it can be really. terrifying. It's funny because I'm not like a I've been thinking about this a lot recently because I do really enjoy doing Lorelei shows but like on paper

the idea and you know of like standing in front of like a thousand people and singing songs about my feeling that like that sounds like a nightmare. That sounds horrible. Sounds like you know so it's like I don't know exactly how Because I have come to enjoy it, but it is like a, it's kind of a situation like that feels tailor made to just terrify me a lot of a time. Well, I know, too, you've also, you know, you've been open talking about like sobriety and

overcoming substance abuse. And that's another element, I'm sure that people connect with, you know, because that's a very relatable thing. And this is something I talk to a lot about in interviews with musicians because I think it's really interesting. We are in this moment now where parasycial relationships with musicians is really important, especially in the indie world. Yeah. Where it feels like if you're going to become like a well-known musician, it almost seems like that's inevitable that you have to have some element of that. And I'm curious about that with you because clearly there are some elements

of that with you. But I also, and this is just in my own mind, I kind of think of you as like a studio rat guy, the guy, you're about making music, you're about making records, you're not necessarily, like you're not all over social media. I don't think of you as having like a, when I listen to your records, I don't detect like some overwhelming persona where I'm wondering, oh, who is Nate dating right now? Yeah. What is he, you know, you don't, you don't attract that, but you, but there is some element of that to certainly, you know, how, what people are taking from your music. I'm just curious from your perspective. What are your feelings about that?

How do you navigate that? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I just, I tried not to, I've kind of like handed off my social media stuff. Like my Instagram hit a tipping point at some point. I was just like, dude, I was just like, I can't like, I can't, uh, you know, the social media thing is just like,

if you let it, it will become like the biggest part of the whole job. It ends up feeling like more than making music or touring. It's just like having to represent yourself as like a brand online. It's just like that is like just not what I signed up for. So as soon as like things got a little more business like I was just like, yeah, like my Instagram can either be run by someone else or I'm just going to like log out and forget the password. Up to you guys.

Like as this is Laurel has gotten bigger, how's that affected water from your eyes? Is that something that you are putting on the same level? Is it two different, yeah, like I guess the separation of responsibilities, I guess. Like, where's that fall for you right now? You know, a certain project will take, you know, the front seat in terms of like touring at a given time. But, you know, Lorelei has always existed.

You know, it goes back further than water. And even when it was something that I wasn't touring or being public about it all, it was something that I was working on, like, all the time. So, you know, the increased exposure for Lorelei hasn't really, like, changed like the balance of those things all all that much like are you still like a like a this is a this is a little this is a water from your eyes here it seems like you've been going back yeah you know you got to like read each project and see you know what what is going on but yeah generally i mean because the two projects they're so different um

but they're both things that I enjoy doing and I find myself naturally doing and having them as two separate outlets, I think is a big part of what has allowed each of them to become like a more, you know, a more determined version of themselves or something. Yeah, I mean, they definitely still have their own lanes, I feel like in terms of your music.

Which it took a while to figure that out because there were times where it felt very interchangeable, like, you know, back like seven, eight years ago. Even though, like, I think water from your eyes is becoming more, for lack of other term, normal sounding. Yeah. I felt like the last record was, like a rock record in a lot of ways, but definitely different from this album.

It's a different kind of vibe. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is a weird thing to ask someone in two different bands, but is there a kind of music that you feel like, I want to make this and I don't have an outlet for it right now? Is there like a death metal project that you have? Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a lot of stuff.

I mean, I just like, I don't really listen to indie rock. So there's like a lot of the, you know, the music that I do make just kind of comes out however it comes out. and I can, Lorelei happens when I'm just kind of messing around in my comfort zone. Water happens when I try and fail, try and fail to do something that I like to listen to. So, you know, I'm mostly like, you know,

I pretty much, I'm trying to think, like, I pretty much like listen to like, I listen to like metal, classical music and ZZ Top. And that's just like, that's honestly like pretty much it. All the food groups covered right there. As we close here, I feel like in the indie rock world, you are really looked at right now is like one of the top songwriters going. There's a lot of respect for you and what you do in the songwriting lane.

So with that in mind, for you, what is a perfect song? What is a song that for you is like, this is like, like, like, describing? one or like am I choosing a song? You're choosing a song. Yeah, a song that for you is like it, that you aim for maybe. I'm putting you on the spot. This is always a hard question to answer. I mean, maybe Sharp Dress Man by Zizi Top.

That's a great song. That is a, that is a good one. I mean Zizi Top, I'm not, I'm trying to think. I'm gonna go, uh. I mean, are you going to the whole career with Zizi Top? Are you going like 70s? You go in like the Simpera? I'm mostly like the four album run from like

Treis Hombres through DeGuelo DeGuelo's that's my favorite that like I don't know what it is about that album That album is so sad That's the one with the red cover right? Yeah It's the one with manic mechanic on it That like it's so good

Tejas is in that run too right? Yeah Tejas is right before That's a great one Goylo. Yeah, I don't know. God, perfect song. I think, you know, there are certain

like North Star songs that remain like interesting and like I feel like I have to say I think I got to go with Bobbo Riley because the amount of times that I've just kind of like lovingly like

made fun of that song inside of my own songs. It's just like I could put together like a probably a full album of Laurel I songs that were just kind of like

riffing on Bob O'Reilly, you know? This is fascinating because I don't think I would have realized that. Like what's an example of it? This is Lorelei song that's riffing on Bob O'Reilly. Well, anything that has that,

you know, that dig a down, a song that sings about you, there's the opening cut on there's this EP called Jimmy Buffett tape there's a song called Buddy O there's you know there's just like little it's a rich text yeah that's just the song that like you know it's really like pretty simple for as as complicated as it is

whether there's something like I don't know I mean for me it's like almost always classic rock stuff. I mean, the other songs that I think of is like, like, like jump in jack flash. It's another song that I just like, every year or so I'll go through like a month for like all I want to do is list that song.

I'm just like, it just doesn't get any like sicker than this. That's pretty, you know, there's a lot of home recording stuff on there too because I think that riff is Keith, he plays an acoustic, but it's like turned up like way to store Yeah, it's like through like a cranked like tape pre.

I can't remember. There's like a there's like a microphone like taped to the guitar or something. Yeah. I can't remember. But yeah, it's some, you know, they were working in, I think it was Olympic Studios or something. But like, but they did kind of eccentric things like those old British rock bands that were. I mean, they were working on four tracks and eight tracks. So it wasn't that different from the studio that you're working on at home.

I mean, back then. Yeah, I try to adhere to similar limitations. I feel like that's a big part of the reason that a lot of music from that time period hits so hard for me is that, like, you really had to work within a specific box. And I think with, you know, obviously, like, home music production with computers

is like one of the, depending on how you look at it, I think it's an amazing thing for modern music. And I think that, you know, I think a laptop music is essentially like, you know, the new folk music. Like the laptop, that's the common tool. Right. Like your average person is way more likely to have access to like fruity loops or Ableton than they are to have like a playable acoustic guitar sitting around. but I also think that having this is kind of like wide open expansive possibilities

that you don't really have to work for. It's just things you can do immediately. I think for me I find that I like what I come up with from a production standpoint more when I apply like very like very hard limitations to the production process in terms of the amount of tracks and you know the uh you know routing of like how something is mixed how many like subgroups are you getting down to at the end you know that that four track magic is real yeah well okay so now so the last time i talked to you i was thinking i'm looking for bluegrass and lullabies in every song now i'm going to be looking for the babbo o're

Riley. I'm going to be looking for like the klezmer violin solos, you know, that come out of nowhere. Nate, great record. I love it. Big fan of your work. Thanks for talking with me. It's been a real pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.