Indiecast - St. Vincent + The Black Keys, Plus: Some Nu Post-Punk Banter

Episode Date: May 14, 2021

This week’s episode kicks off with a listener question about the current renaissance of post-punk outfits like Dry Cleaning, Squid, or Pottery. Is this style of music, which is often built around the dry musings of a distinctly BRITISH vocalist, built to last, or is its popularity merely a byproduct of being inside for too long?The main crux of this week’s episode, however, is dedicated to Daddy’s Home and Delta Kream, new albums from two of the biggest working indie artists today: St. Vincent and The Black Keys, respectively. Where do the latest efforts from these two genre-defining acts rank in their lengthy discographies? While The Black Keys have been pumping out radio hits for the better part of the last decade, St. Vincent has achieved an interesting level of critical acclaim comparing her to legends like Prince, Madonna, and David Bowie, albeit without any bona-fide hits on her setlist.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Ian is digging Whole Damn Body, the recent b-sides EP from Los Campesinos! Meanwhile, Steve is can’t get enough of Topaz, the soulful new album from Texas singer-songwriter Israel Nash.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we will be reviewing new albums by St. Vincent and the Black Keys. Unfortunately, not together. They're a part on these records. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? How am I doing? I'm just basking in the afterglow of the week that Skaw broke, man. we got madness on late night shows, you know, people complaining that we've overstepped by trying to bring ska back into the cultural discussion, man. And I'm just like kicking back and it's appreciating a job well done, man. I don't know about you. Can I just say like, did you just make an ever-clear reference at the top of the episode? No, that's so, that is so much for the afterglow. And you might combine it with Oso Oso's basking in the glow, neither of which are Scah.

I'm sure Everclear at some point. I feel like Everclear had to have played around with Skob at some point. There was Southern California band. But no, that was just me literally. I just hear Afterglow and I immediately go to Everclear. And then I start thinking about how my father was not a good man. And I just want to hear songs about fathers, how bad your father is. Oh, cool.

Well, I got an episode for you about that. What's that? Dude, we're talking about a new St. Vincent album. Oh, that's right. Oh, dude, that was an alley-up for you right there, Steve. That was, man. I was totally blanking. I didn't, I wasn't thinking of that.

You know, this is a great week for album title names, by the way, because we have Daddy's Home by St. Vincent. We have Delta Cream. With a K. Yeah, with a K by the Black Keys. Slater Kinney announced a new record this week called Path of Wellness, which sounds like a salon slash massage place that you would go to. Like, you'd get your mom for Mother's Day a gift certificate to Path of Wellness where she could

go have a, she could go treat herself. But that's the name of the new Slater Kinney record. I mean, I saw people talking about this online. There's a very pointed note in the press release that this album was self-produced. and I don't know if people are reading into that if they feel like oh is this like a sub-tweet of St. Vincent because she famously produced their previous record

and there was some drama involved in that I mean I don't know I doubt that that's the case yeah I don't know because like that would be the two like that would be the two members of Slater Kinney who stayed in the band like Janet Weiss the drummer left the band many people assume because

she was, you know, bristling with St. Vincent's input and she left the band when, I believe, to reform quasi or something like that. But yeah, I definitely do think, yeah, it's self-produced. Like, you know, it's like when Pucci gets kicked off the Simpsons. You know, St. Vincent had to go back to her home planet or something like that. So did you listen to that single? That's like any single? I did. think um it definitely sound like i mean i am by no means an expert on this band but like you could definitely you could definitely tell that uh it's either with a session drummer or um you know with with with

a drum machine and i don't it's kind of chill it's it's i could hear it i could literally hear it in a place a store called path of wellness and i don't know i don't necessarily think that like is a critique of it, like I don't, like, maybe that, maybe it would be kind of all right to, like, listen to a more kind of chill and vibey Slater Kinney album. Maybe that's a new vibe for them, you know? Like, we're getting non-years.

Yeah, yeah, I was trying to figure out if it was a drum machine. I mean, because it kind of sounds like a drum machine, but yeah, or else if it's a live drummer, it's a pretty chill drummer. I know for me, Janet Weiss was my favorite part of Slater Kinney. Like, I love her as a drummer. So taking her out of the band, it really does compromise my enjoyment of up Slater Kinney. I mean, you mentioned how this single from Path of Wellness could play inside of a place called

Path of Wellness. I'm also thinking about our previous conversation about CVS rock. Yes. This could be the first Slater Kinney song that you could hear in a CVS, Walgreens, Whole Foods. Yeah. Which at this point, we'll just say that as an observation, not as a compliment or a criticism. It's a, you know, I guess a judgment-neutral determination of that song.

But yeah, I don't know. I mean, the last record that they did, the St. Vincent produced record. I didn't really like that at all. I thought there were some pretty embarrassing songs on that record. Yeah, it would be kind of an irony if, like, after they made what was seen as large like a pop move by bringing Slater Kennedy in the fold, like they made. They make a self-produced album that ends up, like, getting them in CVS or something like that, you know. But I think that kind of speaks more towards this idea of, like, what we're going to discuss later on, like, whether, like, St. Vincent is actually, like, a pop savant that is trying to, like, portray herself as in, you know, recent years.

You know, do we have anything to say about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? You do. You voted, man. I know. I voted. two of the people I voted for got in. I voted for Tina Turner and I voted for Todd Rungren. They got in.

The other people that got in, Carol King, the foo fighters got in. J. Z. Which, of course, they were going to get in. You know, they were going to get in. They were like the one 90s act that got in because he had raged against the machine,

Mary J. Blige. Oh, I get J. Z got into. Yes. He's the other one of our generation that got in. I guess. I don't know. How do you feel about food fighters getting in first ballot?

I mean, they're there all the time anyway. Like, why not just, like, make it official, you know? It's like, like, Dave Grohl has been, like, on lease to the rock and roll Hall of Fame, you know, ever since 2000, let's say. You might as well just, like, hand him the keys. It's, like, it's yours. And, I mean, like, the last thing we want to be. What's curious about that, though, is that, like, Tom Morello is also really involved in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Oh, yeah.

And he's, he does a lot of things with, I feel like he's in Rolling Stone a lot. he's played with Bruce Springsteen. Yeah. I feel like he's also. And Rage didn't get in. I think they've been nominated a couple of times now. And they still haven't gotten in. I mean, I think this class was actually pretty loaded.

I know as someone who did vote, this was a ballot where I felt like you could have voted for anyone and felt justified. There was no like Bon Jovi in this class. You know, there wasn't like an act that you just kind of roll your eyes that like why they being nominated. So, you know, like, Kate Bush didn't get in. I thought she might get in because she's had a lot of, like, recent,

uh, I feel like her status has ascended dramatically in the last 10 to 15 years. I mean, you listen to modern indie rock and she's like a foundational influence at this point. But yeah, the New York Dolls didn't get in. I mean, there were like some great people that didn't get in. But yeah, rage hasn't gotten in yet. I'm a little surprised that it's taken this long. for them. Yeah.

I assume it'll happen eventually with them. It seems like a matter of time, but yeah, it's like Dave Grohl gets the walk in immediately. Tom Rello has been, I feel like, sucking up to the right people for a while now, and it hasn't paid off. Yeah, I have no idea about, like, the mechanics of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

You know, I know that, like, most Hall of Fame get to a certain point where it's like, oh, let's just let this guy get in. And, you know, like, I don't want to, like, get into the big, like, sports culture crossover of, like, you know, Harold Baines finally getting into the Hall of Fame. It's like, I grew up, like, you know, aware of Harold Baines. I don't recall ever, like, being, oh, yeah, that's a Hall of Famer right there. But, you know, with Food Fighters, I'm, and also, like, I just want to, like, get back. Like, Bon Jovi's got, like, major hits. Like, I think it would be, I would not be mad if Bon Jovi got in.

Well, they did get in. Oh, they did. They got in a few years ago, yeah. Shows what I know, man. And I, you know, less than anyone think that I'm just being mean to Bon Jovi. I agree with you. There's some good Bon Jovi songs. They're like a great karaoke band, I think.

They got more hits than the New York Dolls, man. I'll give it that. That's true. But I don't, but they also have tons of terrible music. I mean, come on. Let's be, I know that you and I are defenders of, like, critically. aligned artist, but even some of their hits are terrible. Like, It's My Life is a terrible song.

Like Frankie said, I did it my way. It's like, oh, my God. That line is terrible. I always thought it said, like, Frankenstein, I did it my way, which is a way which is a way better lyric. So you've really, you've like broken the spell for me. Now that, like, I know what he's actually saying. This song actually does, this song does suck now.

Thanks a fucking lot, Steve. So you thought John Bon Jo, was tipping the cap to Frankenstein for being an iconoclast and doing it his way. But no, I mean, you could be right, but I'm pretty sure it's Frankie, as in Frank Sinatra is singing, like, my way, because that's a Frank Sinatra song. So, and Frankenstein really didn't do it his way because he was made by Dr. Frankenstein. I guess he claims his agency in the story because he ends up going nuts. They lose control of him. So I guess he eventually does it his way.

I don't know. I feel like the rest of the episode should just be us extrapolating Frankenstein in the context of a Bon Jobe song. I'm very fascinated by this tangent. But I don't know, maybe we should get to the rest of our episode here. We have a good listener questioner this week. It comes from Tony. He lives in Revere, Massachusetts. There's actually a town called Revere.

That sounds like the most Massachusetts thing of all time. to have a town called Revere. So, yes, Tony, thank you for writing. This is what he wrote to us. Hello, Stephen Ian. First of all, I love the podcast. And as a 44-year-old, I am the quintessential only member of a friend group that listens to indie alt-punk music, right in the demo. All right.

I like to hear that. I have barely anyone to talk to you about music anymore, so the podcast fills the void. Great job. great podcast. I built you up now, so now I'm going to tear you down a bit. Guys, not a single mention of new long leg by dry cleaning. I think that this is one of the best albums since the great indie paradigm ship of 2013. That's a good reference to Indycast right there. Yeah, good listener.

He's truly an Indycast head. From the first notes, I'm hooked. Something about this woman's dry British musings and non-sequiters over this very expressive music really hits me. I think it's an actual LP with a cohesive sound and point of view. Everything hinges on the vocals. If you dig them, you can love this record. If not, you'll probably hate it. Not sure where they'll go in the future with the style of vocals, but as of right now, 2021, ending pandemic times, this is my soundtrack. I really respect your music takes and would love it if you could bring it up on the pod, even if you hate it. Thanks again, guys, Tony. So,

This was a good question. I picked this one because I think he's got a good point. Dry cleaning, new long leg. This is like one of the big, buzzy indie records of 2021, and we haven't really talked about this record specifically. We've talked a bit about

this wave of British post-punk bands. By the way, I should say, I meant to say this before I read the letter, if you want to write us, we're at indiecast mailbag at gmail.com. Crazy enough, actually saying our email address on the show led to us getting a lot of letters this week. It's funny how that happens. If you actually give your address, people will

write to you. So, yeah, if you want to write in, ADCast Mailbag at gmail.com, I know, I know you have a lot of opinions about this, Ian, so I'll let you weigh in first. What do you think about drying cleaning? I mean, this is a band a lot of critics love. Tony loves them. How do you feel about them? I mean, I think it speaks to like 2021's kind of fallow field for buzz bands where it's like dry cleaning is considered, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the epitome of like, oh, this is really what's popping right now. And before we go any further, one thing I need to address is that, like, I get a lot of shit when, you know, I say the names of new emo bands I love out loud or even write them, like

Ogbert the Nerd or Guitar Fight from Coolie Fully, you know, that's like when you have a band. Wait, wait, wait, what? These are all names. Guitar Fight from Cool. Yeah, guitar fight from Coley Foley? Yeah. I don't know that band.

Dude, these are all bands I've talked about in the recommendation corner of Indycast. But, you know, like, when you say that band's name, like, you kind of know what you're getting into. It's like, you get like a face tattoo and it kind of dictates the sort of things that you're able to do from there on out. But, and yeah, they are kind of self-consciously ridiculous. But, like, is that any worse than, like, saying, yeah, I'm into this new band called Squid or Dry Cleaning or Pottery, you know? It's like, maybe it's like all part and parcel of, like, this kind of severe post-punk. aesthetic to pick the most severe and nondescript names. But anyway, like, I just have to say at first, like, these band names do not sound cool.

But, you know, one thing that Tony mentioned that we kind of had to, you know, go past in the in reading the letter is that, you know, he is a, he considers himself a British rock person, you know, Smith, My Bloody Valentine, Shoe gaze, verve, Oasis. I love all that stuff, too. And, you know, one thing I'll disagree with Tony about is that the vocals, like, I do understand. if they seem a bit divisive. But to me, that's not really what, you know, takes me out of liking this album. Like, I do think they're very distinct.

It's just that the, it's actually the music itself. It's just very generic and, like, I wish it was, like, almost, like, more angular to bring up, like, the post-punk cliche. It just sounds like, to me, there's no real songs or dynamic to it. And you really do have to just, like, kind of sit there. and it kind of does live or die by the non sequiters and the dry, witty take on the modern absurdity of life or whatever. And, you know, this guy mentioned Block Party. This is really the wedge point with me with the new wave of like post-punk because when this stuff was kind of happening in the early 2000s, the mid-2000s, all these bands influenced by like Gang of Four or what have you.

You at least can have like a band like Block Party who had that element, but also kind of kind of. of wanted to be you too, you know, kind of recognize that you too used to be a post-punk band and had like big anthemic choruses. And I just don't hear any of that coming out of this wave. I mean, like, and don't, like, in the same way that, like, I talk about, like, how a lot of American indie bands, like, they all want to be Nirvana. We could use a Bush. We could use a filter. I want, like, a Maximo Park. I want an editors. Like, just a band that makes, like, catchy, shamelessly grand IOS songs within the post-punk realm

and please don't tell me shame is doing that because, you know, they, I don't think they really still know how to write a big hook. So, I mean, I can understand, like, when I read about... Well, in the context of these bands, shame is probably the most, like, straightforward rock band. So, I mean, I think in the analogy, like, they would, I guess,

be the equivalent of, like, the block party. but I agree that they aren't as good as a Black Party. They haven't written the undeniable, they haven't written a sound like helicopter or something. I mean, they don't have like the undeniable bangers that you associate with those early aughts, post-punk bands. I mean, I think when we talk about dry cleaning and a lot of these like British post-punk bands

that are coming out in 2021, because that does seem like one of the big narratives for indie music right now is this wave of British post-punk that we're seeing. And, of course, that includes dry cleaning. You referenced squid before the band Pottery, which is, I think it's a hilarious band name, maybe not intentionally. And Black Middy, who I imagine we'll probably talk about in a week or two when their record comes out. I think there's two different conversations.

There's one that's actually about, like, the specific record that you're talking about, in this case, New Long Leg, which I have to say that this record's really grown on me over the last, like, few weeks, month, where I've really come to enjoy it. And I think a lot of that does have to do with Florence Shaw, who is the lead singer of the band. I think that she really does differentiate them for me from, like, a lot of these bands where typically, in these bands, you have, like, a young dude, or I guess we should say a lad, a young lad, since these are British bands.

Oh, below. who talks in a very exaggerated accent about, you know, as you said, the banalities of modern life and how this pretends the apocalypse that's on the horizon. I mean, that's all these bands usually tend to talk about. Like, they're very kind of Patrick Bateman in their lyrics where it's very descriptive of like just these banal things, but they're meant to hint at something more sinister underneath, you know, in the subtext. I'm a little sick of that guy in these types of bands. I mean, I feel like I've heard that in so many different instances, that hearing Florence Shaw, who is not that, it does make dry cleaning to me feel a little fresher in this context.

And just generally, I think the music, too, I think it does reveal itself to be actually more melodic over time than it does upon first listen. There's actually songs on there that didn't really stick, with me the first couple times I listen to the record and now that I've absorbed a little bit more. They do stick with me a little bit more. So as far as this record goes, I'm with it. I'm not as over the moon for it as some people are, but I think it's a good record. So that's one conversation. The other conversation is, and this is something that you and I have talked about on the show,

is this tendency of critics to always go for bands like this. It seems like whenever we talk about innovative rock music or forward-thinking rock music, it tends to be bands that are referencing music that originated in the late 70s and early 80s in the aftermath of the initial punk explosion. And there's something about the predictability of that. And I think the narrow, it just feels like a very narrow perspective. And I don't know, like you and I have been around long enough now that we've seen a couple cycles of this already. You know, it happened in the aughts and now it's happening again in uh in 2021 and you know not to bring greta van fleet into the conversation again i feel like i'm always bringing this band we need to bring greta van fleet into

the conversation but they but you know they they get ripped for being like a baldly derivative band of 70s rock music which they are i mean there's no disputing that but a lot of these british post punk bands that are getting great reviews they're also really derivative uh you know you mentioned Squid before. I actually like that record more than you do. I've been enjoying that record this week. I don't love it, but I think it's a pretty good record. It actually made me think of not so much music from the late 70s, but like music from the early aughts that reference the music from the late 70s, like LCD sound system, the rapture, some of those dance punk bands, the DFA sound basically of that time where, you know, as opposed to dry cleaning, they're much more about, you know,

funkiness, grooves, their songs go on, often for seven or eight minutes. I tend to enjoy the music of Squid more than the vocals. I think in a way, if you just remix that record and just had the music, I'd probably like that record a bit more than I do now. But yeah, there's just something about how critics always go for this kind of thing that, I don't know, it bugs me a little bit, but I try not to take that out on the bands themselves. I think dry cleaning is a good band,

but the discourse around it to me sometimes I feel like, okay, I've been through this before. I've been through this cycle before. At what point does this music stop being cool, I guess? It's a true North, man. I guess so. It really is. But doesn't it have an expiration date at some point?

Because this music is like 40 years old now, like that this is referencing. So you would think that maybe people would start to look at it as being old hat. And again, like, I like that kind of music, but I'm also a guy in my 40s. You know, it is a little weird that people in their 20s who were born in, like, 1999 or 1998,

they're still going back to that and looking at that as sort of like the, a pit of me of great rock music. You know, it's a little strange to me that that's still happening. Yeah, but I mean, I was really into those bands that you had mentioned before, like whether it's DFA,

or like the British post-punk stuff and like when I was 23 or 24. And you know, like there are just certain, you know, there are just certain, uh, genres or aesthetics that are really like a true north for critics. I mean, you could talk about like British post-punk. Uh, you can talk about pavement.

You could talk about like kind of left of center R&B. I mean, those are just always going to be, um, thing. Like, if you can emulate that, you're at least in the conversation. Um, and, you know, I get it. And like maybe if I were 23, I'd be like super into squid and super into dry cleaning, thinking about like how this stuff like expands my horizon so much further than say,

I don't know, whatever you want to call like the, I don't know, whatever you want to like consider like the like those straight ahead alt rock thing. But you know, for now it's like I do have to understand like to a degree like I guess just let them do their thing. You know, it's a it's a young person's game. trying to rewrite the narrative. But yeah, I mean, I think that I just get a little bit bummed out because like you were saying,

it's like we've seen this several cycles. It's like I kind of judge the excitement or about a new band. It's like, is this bringing anything new into the conversation or is it just like reiterating the, you know, the same best of the 70s lists that have, you know, existed as far back as I can remember reading like Rolling Stone, you know? Yeah, I mean, like you, like you were, saying before, I am curious to see

if there are, if there's a version of this kind of band in the early 2020s that becomes more of a pop band. That becomes the Interpol or the editors at Maximo Park. I don't know if we've heard that band yet, or maybe dry cleaning pivots to that on their

next record because I do think, again, I like New Long Leg, I think it's like quite a good record, but I do question how they grow from that album. I feel like that album, is something that it's so singular.

I don't know, like, if they just made another record like that, I think it would be a huge case of diminishing returns. Yeah. I don't know, like, how you evolve from that very specific thing of, like, jagged guitars and someone talking over it without making a pretty dramatic pivot from that.

Like, I feel like the next record is maybe going to be dramatically different. And if it's not, maybe there'll be, like, a one album wonder type band you know what the sad thing is man like out of all these british post-punk bands if we're talking about like the one that has uh really stuck on a popular level at the level of say interpol or uh you know block party the answer of that question i hate to say it is idols like they are by a huge margin the most popular of these acts so uh maybe maybe we're getting what we really want and we just don't like what we've been given

I suppose. I still don't really know any idol songs like off the top of my head. There isn't like a song of theirs that has penetrated beyond the audience that loves this kind of music, unless I've missed out on it. Oh, but that's a, it is a big audience. I suppose. I mean, I feel like that has a lot to do with their live show too, even more than their records. I mean, the people that I know that love that band, they talk about how good they are live. So, I don't know. We'll see. But this definitely is going to be a thing, I think, for the rest of the year. Again, we have that Black Midi record coming out.

I think that's... Yeah, that one's good. That's May 20... I guess that's next week. I think that comes out. Two weeks from now. Is it two weeks from now? So it would be interesting to talk about that.

But for now, we're going to pivot into the meat of our episode. Speaking of 70s rock. Speaking of 70s rock, the first record we're going to... to be reviewing today is Daddy's Home by St. Vincent. And this is the sixth St. Vincent record. It's her first album in four years coming after Mass Seduction in 2017. And like Mass Seduction, it was produced by Annie Clark, along with Jack Antonoff. And this album has, I guess, been a gift for you and I because there hasn't been a ton of music news in early 2020.

but the St. Vincent's Daddy's Home album cycle has been pretty interesting and a little bit rough, I guess, for St. Vincent, although, you know, things have quieted down a bit in, like, the past week or so. But, of course, there was the whole thing about this being an album about her father going to prison for white-collar crimes.

I believe he was a stockbroker that committed broad to the tune of, like, I think it was like hundreds of millions of dollars. Did he have been... I think it was like 40 million or something like that. Let's not give them too much credit. Tens of millions of dollars, not hundreds of millions of dollars. My mistake. And then of course it was that story about St. Vincent's publicist supposedly having an interview bounced from a still unnamed publication. But now we finally have the record here. And it's a record that is consciously drawing from the tradition of, as we said before, 70s rock, David Bowie is

a reference point on this record. Lou Reed, there's some Sly Stone-style funk on the record, really, you know, decadent, druggie music that people still love, and I love all that music. I love revisiting it. So this is definitely an album I should like on paper, but I don't know. How do you feel about this album? Yeah, I mean, you say it sounds like the sort of thing I'd like on paper, which I think to me has been the St. Vincent experience as far back. as I can remember, you know, like going back. By the way, like, we want to talk about, you know, like the, we want to talk about, like, her past.

I mean, like, this one, she's been around so long. She was in polyphonic spree, if I'm not mistaken. Like, this is, yeah. So, I mean, I think that angle gets underplayed. I think that's, you know, it's just kind of funny to think of her being just like one of the 55 members of that band. But, you know. I saw her for the first time opening for the national on the boxer tour.

Oh, yeah, that makes sense. So, yeah, she's a true, like, indie rock legacy act. Yeah, this is, like, yeah, this is straight up, like, dark was the night era. And, but as far back as, like, I've been, you know, aware of her as a solo artist and talking about her in the public sphere, it's the, like, if I could make a composite sketch of the people with whom I talk about this artist, like, you know, in real life, it's like, yeah, like, I really respect St. Vincent. And I think she's great. Do I really like her music? I don't really know. And that's kind of been my experience with the music itself.

In a lot of ways, it's very impressive. It's very, like, well sculpted as far as image and sound. And I think that this one, it's weird because usually she's kind of taken on like a more futuristic sort of bent with her music. And now it's like, oh, I'm digging into, you know, Bowie, Slystone, funk rock. Another thing that I would consider to be a true north of, you know, know, the critical realm. And also, we got to mention, like, people were like, oh, my God, is this controversy really going to, like, you know, is this, is this going to be her everything

now? And it's like, dog, like, I think you can't extrapolate a couple of conversations on music critic Twitter with, like, the, you know, the greater conversation. Right now, currently has, like, nearly a 90 on Metacritic. She's like, she is, like, not like, Dave Grohl, but she's still someone who you can rely on to, like, play the rock and roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony. She has, like, her own line of guitars. She does have, like, this kind of raucous appeal that, you know, a lot of magazines or critics, like, feel like they should prop up is, like, this is how it's done. And when I listen to this record, I don't feel a hell of a lot, you know? It's like, I almost wish it was more about actual crimes.

You know, it's like getting into the nitty-gritty about, like, what it's like to, you know, to commit, like, five or eight-figure. fraud because when I hear it, it's like, I still, in a good way, it's clearly still at St. Vincent Alam. It doesn't sound like warm and analog the way a lot of the reference points do. It still sounds very sharp and modern in its production. I do appreciate the fact there's a choral sitar on a lot of songs, which is actually something I remember from the 90s, more than the 70s. It was all over Saibati's Dream, if I remember correctly.

But yeah, I just think with this album, um, I think. I have to think it's like, is it, like, I always just hear St. Vincent. I don't really hear her disappearing into character. I think the way this album is trying to more so than her past ones. And I also like this, I think when you consider how she's frequently compared to, you know, other icons of, you know, constant reinvention and costume changing, be it like LCD, not LCD sound system, but more like, you know, Prince or Madonna. or Stevie Wonder. I mean, these are her comparative points. And to me, it's just like, I don't know, but like, where are her songs, you know?

Even amongst the dark as the night crew, it's like you can think of a national song that's like hit on a level that like transcends just indie people or LCD sound or even like grizzly bear and dirty projectors. I mean, like what is the definitive St. Vincent's song? Well, yeah, I think that is a question about her overall career. and certainly about this album. And I have a similar experience with St. Vincent to you where there's a lot of, I admire about her on paper. You know, I think she clearly is a really smart person. I think that the way she goes about conceptualizing her records is always pretty interesting. I think that, you know, as a musician, she's obviously really talented. When I did see her for the first time on the boxer tour, opening for the national, I remember her

playing a lot of guitar on that show and being like blown away by her guitar skills. I mean, you don't often see someone in indie rock who just like shreds on guitar. So that was a pretty cool thing to see. So there's all these elements to her that I think are there and she obviously, you know, she knows how to put a record together. I mean, she knows what she's doing. But then when you actually put the record on, I'm always left at this feeling of like, of coldness and airlessness and it feels emotionally remote to me. And I think just in general, she's a lot of brains and not a whole lot of heart or a whole lot of guts.

It reminds me of our Ice Age conversation last week where I feel like Ice Age, they made a decadent rock record in quote marks. It was like, we're going to punch in the elements of what a decadent rock record is into a computer and it's going to spit this music out. And yeah, it has a lot of the qualities. of music from the past that you associate with decadent rock music, but it doesn't have that central

element that hits you in the gut or in the heart or makes you want to dance or makes you like want to drink too many beers, you know, which I think is an essential element of music like this. And with Daddy's home, you know, if she's going to make a New York record if she's going to make this grimy

70s rock record, which again, that's totally in my wheelhouse. That's totally the kind of music I love and a lot of people love that. I mean, who doesn't love, you know, 70s David Bowie or, you know, Slice Stone, there's a riot going on. I mean, that's like the easiest music in the world to like. But the reason why people like that music is that you feel like people in a room playing together and they're sweating and, you know, you feel like you can like get a contact buzz

off record. There's like a real sense of soul to them. Whereas I feel like Daddy's home, you know, it's so meticulous and it's so immaculately produce and everything is in the right place. And there's just no oxygen in this record at all. I just feel like it's so flat. And again, it has all the elements there that you, on paper, that should work. But when it comes through the speakers, it's just like, this is not hitting me where it should.

Yeah, I think like this album kind of paints you into a corner because like the thing that makes it a St. Vincent album as opposed to like something like the Bruno Mars Anderson Pock thing, like Silk Sink. Sonic, which is just straight up like 70s homage, like cover band stuff, is that, you know, that is the distinct quality of St. Vincent music, that it is like cerebral. It is kind of cold and removed. And it's like, you know, should like, I feel like we're kind of being like pressed to appreciate that, you know, rather than thinking like, yeah, maybe that's not for me. But it's like, well, no, that is how she is putting her signature on this style of music. And, you know,

if I can think about it like academically enough, I'm like, yeah, I can appreciate that because I mean, when you look at like David Bowie, like maybe this is like her version of a let's dance or something like that, like kind of costumery. But I think it comes back down to it's like, are the, like, am I thinking about this music or am I actually enjoying it? Like maybe if I was like more, I don't know, involved in the critical conversation and I needed to, you know, be into this record to just, I don't know, justify spending so much time thinking about music, I could talk myself into it, you know? I just wonder, though, it's like how, I just really want, like, how popular is St.

Vincent? Because to me, in my, like, when I've seen her at festivals, she's always, like, the band's always been the type to, like, get to, like, underdraw where they are on the festival thing. Like, you know, they're not going to be able to, like, anchor a night the way, like, LCD sound system or Vampire Weekend to think about, like, her peers or, like, the national, like, but it's, or LCD sound system, but it's, but it's also not quite at the level of, say,

even arcade fire, circa the suburbs. I just don't know, like, I just always find the conversation around it, like, her record's fascinating because it's like, no,

this is the new prints. This is the new Bowie. And it's like, well, David Bowie also made music, like songs like, let's dance, you know?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, they, they wrote pop songs along with esoteric art music, you know? Yeah,

You mentioned let's dance. There's like three monster hit songs from that record that if you don't like David Bowie or you don't know who he is, you may still know like modern love or let's dance or whatever those songs are. Yeah, I mean, I think St. Vincent, and we talked about this before, she's at that level where I think in the indie world, you know, she's a legacy act. She seems like one of the big stars. I will say that like she is an example of, an indie performer who actually does have a persona that is kind of interesting.

I mean, there aren't a lot of indie stars who are like that. You know, there is this conceptual aspect of her that I think elevates her a bit into, she like looks like a star. She acts like a star in a way that a lot of indie musicians don't. But yeah, she's not a pop star. She hasn't crossed over in the way, say, Lana Del Rey has, where Lauderdale Ray is another huge indie star, She also has a lot of pop pull at this point.

So, yeah, I mean, and we alluded to this earlier. I mean, she has been around now for quite a while. You ever take 15 years. And so, you know, in terms of her being at like a Coachella or something, I mean, I do think that probably the people that are into her are also the people that are into the national that are into, you know, the other big sort of like, indie legacy acts now.

Like, I think that's probably her audience more than, like, a really young audience. I don't know. That's my suspicion. Yeah. You know, like, my guess is that the people who are really in the St. Vincent are the people like me who saw her open up for the national, like, a long time ago. And I've stayed with her throughout her entire career. And maybe they'll be into this record.

I mean, again, the things that you and I don't like about it, apparently a lot of people do like about it. So based on my reaction to it, which is kind of the same of every other St. Vincent record, if you've liked every other St. Vincent record, you're probably like this one too. That's my feeling because I don't feel like it's that. It definitely seems like a piece with her catalog. And it's part of her progression in her career. So it definitely makes sense in terms of her overall sort of arc right now. So yeah, so take our words with a grain of salt. If you love her. You're probably going to

like this record. If you're like me and Ian and you're like a little ass, this leaves me a little cold, you're probably going to react that too. We're probably going to have

this same conversation about the next St. Vincent album in like 2024. Yeah, we'll see. Well, let's move on to our next record, which is Delta

Cream with a K by the Black Keys. This is their first album since Let's Rock, which I believe came out in 2019. Oh.

And, um, they've been really doing these album titles where I wonder to what degree there's like a self-conscious like wink at the audience. Like, let's rock to me seem like kind of a wink at the audience. And they must have known. That album title was in quotes.

Yeah, that album title was in quotes too. Right. So I feel like they, my sense of those two guys is that they have a sense of humor about themselves. I don't think they take themselves all that seriously. So I feel like there was probably an intentional wink there. But now we go into Delta Cream. And yeah, this is a collection of blues rock covers.

And I like bringing in blues rock. We talked about ska. We've talked about, you know, jam bands. We're bringing in blues rock, all these genres that we often don't talk about in an indie music context. I'm curious to hear what you have to say about this album first, because I feel like I'm much more well-versed in the Black Keys than you are. Like, you've not really listened to them at all, right? Yeah, this album reminds me of being 23 years old and like having like looking at all music guide to try to figure out where to begin with this band that has like a body of work. And for me, it's like, wait, how have I been a functioning adult in the music critic sphere since like 2003 and never listened to an actual Black Keys album?

Yeah, I'm surprised. Yeah, I'm surprised too because I mean, like, when you think about like their epitaph slash fat possum days or whatever, you know, I see them as like this, I was all, I was so trying to find bands that would help me connect with like, you know, like my more normal people in my friend group, you know, like Wilco was a big band for that. My morning jacket was a big band for that. And I figure like, why not black keys? And it's, so I started with Rubber Factory. That one, I think was the, I think that's like kind of the one that's like cool, right? Am I not mistaken? Is that seen as like, you know, their artistic peak?

Is that even remotely accurate? Well, sort of. I mean, I really like that record a lot. I would say that, you know, there's this period that they go through in the odds where they're this sort of mid-level blues rock band. That is what they are. In the shadow of the white stripes. Yeah. You know, definitely in the shadow of the white stripes.

and then they make this transition with the record brothers, which came out, I believe, in 2010. Where that becomes a big hit because of the single, tighten up. Yeah, that's where they get into, like, Danger Mouse. And so... Right. And then they put out their next record El Camino,

which was another huge hit. And then they became an arena band after that. So my experience with, like, Black Keys is that, like, I'm aware of their existence. I may have heard their songs by accident, but, like, I actually sat down, put Rubber Factory on in my car, and like it just sort of confirm my suspicions.

Like, oh, yeah, this is like the white stripes if, like, they were actually like a blues band. It didn't do like all that weird art stuff. I mean, you, like, it's, okay, I'm like, yeah, this is okay, I guess. This is not what I expected. It made me think a little bit about a blues hammer. Now, this is a, like, there were recent conversations about the best fictional rock bands in TV and movies. And I didn't see enough conversation around Ghost World. Blueshammer.

I think this was so on point that it kind of eliminated this man from the public sphere, just like that kind of like, I'm going to break you. Like, I'm thinking of Metallica's 2x4. I guess that. I love Blueshammer. I love that joke. And the Blackies have been compared to Blueshammer in the past, I think unfairly because they aren't, because I feel like the Blueshammer thing is making fun of the type of, you know,

white dude blues, which is very much about technical proficiency. you know, being a guitar hero, and going back to the tropes of Mississippi Delta-type blues where you're singing about working in the field and, you know, picking cotton and all this stuff, which the Black Keys don't do. I mean, you know, there's Joe Bonamasa, like that guy is still huge. He actually made a live record that was made at Red Rocks, where I think it's a tribute record to Muddy Waters, or maybe it's Holly Wolf, one of those guys. It might be both.

There's some pretty funny, like, unintentionally hilarious moments on that record where it's very blues hammery. You know, I interviewed Patrick Carney, the drummer for the Black Keys, many years ago, probably 15 years ago, when they were putting out magic potion. And he talked about how much he doesn't like blues. Like, he says, I'm not really into blues music at all. He comes from more of, like, a punk rock background,

more of, like, garage rock type stuff. And I do think that, like, the Black Keys and the Oats, were basically just like a rock band that had some blues elements to it. But they, I think those records slot more in sort of the garage rock lane

more than like a strict blues lane. And this new record, even though it is a blues covers album, harkens back to those albums in a way that the Black Keys really haven't done since, you know, before brothers, basically. I mean, in the 2010s, the Black Keys became a pop band in a lot of ways. Yeah.

And, you know, people like to drag the Black Keys, but, like, they are one of the only straightforward rock bands to really make a dent in pop music in the last decade. Like, you go on Spotify, that song Lonely Boy, which was, I think, the first single from El Camino, it has, like, 300 million streams, you know, which if you're just a blues band, like, you're not going to do those kind of numbers.

I mean, there's obviously a pop appeal to the ball. Black Keys. I mean, there was also the fact, too, that this band was like the sound of corporate America for a few years. They were like at every commercial and every trailer. It was either them or a band that sounded. Brothers is like kind of like the Moby play of its ilk, you know? Yeah, it was licensed like to the Hilt, but also if a company couldn't get the Black Keys, they would just like hire musicians to make a track that sounded like the Black Keys. So like if you're selling like hot wings or tires or beer, or anything like that.

You had a black keys sounding thing in there. So they definitely had their moment. And I have to say, like, this record was a pleasant surprise for me, this Delta Cream, because, did you listen to Delta Cream at all? Yeah, I mean, I listened to it. It's like, yeah, this is just not my thing. I'm, like, thinking back to what it was like to get, like, guitar world and guitar player back in the mid-90s, and, like,

they would have, like, one Stevie Ray Vaughn song in, like, you know, alongside, say, how to play like holes, dull parts or like Longview or something like that. I mean, it's like cool, but it's like I have just so little interest in this style of music that, I mean, I appreciate that exists. I appreciate the fact that like the black keys are really leaning into their lack of coolness, you know? Like, I don't, I don't think they're trying anymore to like appeal to people who might make a blues hammer joke about them, which I respect more than like the actual music. I'm glad it exists. I mean, like, think about, like, putting out a blues cover album in 2021, you know?

Well, and they're also not trying to have pop hits either. I mean, you know, they're not trying to appeal to sort of indie snobs, and they're not trying to appeal to a pop audience either. I mean, in a way, this feels like a record for Black Keys fans who love the Oats era albums, and then they weren't into the Danger Mouse album. I know that that constituency exists out there that feels like, oh, they got away from their more sort of raw sound that they had in the odds. I mean, look, this is like a Chugel rock record, essentially, which is right up my alley, lots of mid-tempo, like, chunky sounding songs. And I think it sounds pretty good. I mean, my complaint about Delta Cream is that it should have been an EP. I think if this were like a five or six song album, it would hit a lot harder as it is, I think it's about 12, 12 to 14 songs.

It just gets a little repetitive over the course of the album. And I feel like, you know, you made your point on the first half of the record. Maybe that should have just been it. They actually did put out an EP of Junior Kimbrose songs, like about a dozen years ago. That's quite good, too. So, yeah, I think this would have been better as an EP. But I don't know. Again, like, I didn't have high expectations going into this because I didn't really like Let's Rock.

And I haven't really liked the last couple of Black Keys albums. But I thought this album was actually, like, pretty good. And I think if you like the Black Keys, you know, in the odds, if you liked Rubber Factory and thick freakness records like that, I think this might be more up your alley. I just like the fact that, you know, when you talk about like Patrick Carney, like, kind of hating blues rock, what makes, like, the way I enter this record is thinking, oh man, they're making like a record this guy hates.

I always like to think of the band dynamic when you can tell, like, one of the members is totally not into it. So, you know. I mean, the thing with the Black Keys, and you mentioned the one. White Stripes before. I mean, I mean, and this is kind of an,

this is something I realized as I was putting together the outline that, you know, we were talking about St. Vincent being a little too uptight and the Black Keys being a little anonymous,

that like maybe St. Vincent and the Black Keys should make a record together because they could loosen up St. Vincent and she could give them more of a conceptual event. But then I realized, well,

that's just the white stripes. Yeah, exactly. You know, so that's a sense, but like, you know, the thing with Jack White is that he is more of a blues

purists in a lot of ways than I think the guys and the black keys are. The black keys to me, you know, they just sound like bad company. You know, or they sound like the 70s blues rock band. I think they do on Rubber Factory. There's some like really catchy songs on that record. You should go back to that. That's a good album. But like, you know, they're not doing that thing that where Jack White is, you know, building guitars out of a tree that he chopped down on his property in Tennessee. And, you know, in dressing like he's a blacksmith from the 1800s. You know, they don't really do that thing. They're just two guys in a rock band.

From Akron, Ohio, yeah. That have this blues element. I think Dan Arborbach is more of the blues guy. Patrick Carney is more of a punk fan, I think. Yeah. I think especially like that tradition of like Ohio punk music, Pierre Abu and Devo and stuff like that. I think that's where he's coming from more.

So that's how you end up with this thing. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like this band is a little underappreciated. Yeah, I think so. I think they're good at what they do. And again, like, I think this record, you know, I would maybe make a playlist of five or six songs

that I like the most from this record and have that be my version of Delta Cream. I think that would be good. I think overall it gets a little samey, but the best parts of it, I think, are actually quite good. All right, we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into,

this week, Ian, why don't you go first? So for my recommendation, so I want to recommend the movie Mitchell's Versa Machines. It's a great movie that came out a few weeks ago. It's on Netflix. Because within like the first, like literally the first two minutes, you hear the Meishie, a band that was awesome and they broke down in 2008 or 2009. Also Los Campesinos, I believe Umi dancing also played as the intro music, which, I mean, it's a kid's movie, but also like that 2008.

indie rock sound. Dan Deakin, I think, is also in there as well. But Los Campesinos, maybe one of my favorite bands of the 21st century. To me, they're just a perfect alignment of, like, emo, but also like the absurdity of modern life. I mean, a British post-punk, they bring that element as well. And they haven't had a record come out since 2017, I believe, but they put out a EP on Bandcamp called Whole Damn Body, which is an EP, a B-Sy. and rarities that comes from their 2011 album, Hello Sadness, which is celebrating its 10th anniversary. And I mean, anything this band puts out to me is like must listen. They're almost like an anti-ice age in a way where they're just like every album they get is like

acclaim, but like it never ever really breaks through to the point where they have like, oh yeah, that's the one classic. I don't know. There's just an enormous influence on modern emo. they actually call themselves the UK's first and only emo band in their Twitter bio. So, I mean, I can do an entire episode about this band, but Whole Damn Body is the new EP. It's on band camp. It might hit streaming soon.

It just kind of shows just how deep the well is for this band. And I really hope they come back in 2021 with something new. You know, this is a band I've never really listened to. I've heard like songs here and there, but I have not dug in deep. But I know that there's like a constituency out there that is passionate about them. They're the best. So at some point I want to investigate. It sounds like something that I should be more into that I am to right now.

So thank you for that reminder to check out Los Campesinos. I want to talk about a record called Topaz by a guy named Israel Nash. Israel Nash, he's a singer-songwriter from Texas. And in a way, he's about what you'd expect based on that short description. He is a soulful voice. He has plain-spoken but poetic lyrics. definitely part of that tradition of great Texas singer-songwriters. But musically, he diverges from that template

with these big, spacey, dreamy, psychedelic soundscapes that have these beautiful pedal-steel guitar lines and these big sort of choirs of angelic female voices. And he's been cultivating this sound for a while. The first record of his I heard was called Rain Plans, which came out in 2013. and he continues to refine it, and I think it really blossoms on this new record called Topaz.

If I was going to do somewhat reductive, but I think fairly accurate summation of this record, I would say that it's like if Towns Van Zant made his version of the Dark Side of the Moon. Like that's what this record sounds like. Again, you have this great Texas voice at the center, but then you have these beautiful, you know, soul psychedelic. Great gig in the sky.

stuff going on. Yeah, really good stuff. And, you know, there's other people that have worked in this lane before. I mean, Friend of the podcast, Strand of Oaks has made like a couple of records in this vein that are really great. There's also like a really good Ray La Montaigne record that he made with My Man Jacket. That came out like a decade ago, I think. Maybe, maybe not that quite that long. But that's, like, quite a good record. And it's like a similar type of vibe to this Israel Nash record. But I like it a lot. And again, I think it's a well-timed album. because this is the kind of record that you want to hear where, you know, where I live, it's finally warm outside. You can go out. You can watch the stars in warm weather. And you want to put on a record like this. It really hits the spot. So again, that's called Topaz. It's by a guy named Israel Nash. So go check that out. Yeah, that's definitely sounds like something made in the

Hayden factory. Yes, it is. Straight in straight in straight up Hyden Corps. So thank you, Israel Nash, for delivering there. We have now reached the end. We have now reached the end. of another episode of Indycast. But we want to thank you all for listening, and we'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations,

sign up for the Indie Mixedape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.