Indiecast - Talkin' Ska!

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

For weeks, we’ve been quietly hoping that Steve and Ian would dedicate an episode of Indiecast to the evolution and purported impending comeback of ska. Well, that day has finally arrived, as this week’s episode is all about talkin’ ska. For the uninitiated, ska is a genre of music that originally started in Jamaica in the 1960’s but soon moved over to the UK with the 2 Tone revival in the late 70’s, then re-emerged prominently in the 80’s and 90’s with bands like Reel Big Fish, Less Than Jake, The Aquabats, and more.With Jeff Rosenstock reimagining his entire 2020 opus No Dream as a ska album and the prevalence of Ska Tune Network on YouTube, could ska be making another comeback in the 2020’s? Perhaps, but the deciding factor will come when a new ska band starts to get critical and commercial attention.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Ian has been digging Internet Breath, the new album from Montana band Hey, ILY. Hyden is looking ahead a bit to the forthcoming album from Brooklyn-based quintet Lightning Bug, which is due June 25.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to be talking about our personal experiences with ska. Yes. And whether the genre is due for a comeback. My name is Stephen Haydn, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Well, let's see. I'm a 41-year-old man whose brain just formulated the phrase emo discourse hangover at 7 o'clock in the morning. So I feel like I'm feeling about as good as I should feel with those facts in place. What wave are we on now? What wave are we on now with emo? It's fifth. It's fifth.

Some would argue fifth. Some would spend days and days and days arguing on Twitter that we're on the fifth wave. And I don't want like, see, like, I mean, I want to. be vulnerable and bring the things that are happening into my life onto this show, but I don't think I really have the energy to get into the micro facets of this thing. I mean, like, I say like, emo discourse hangover only because like it's the sort of situation where you, like, are you with someone on Twitter or you feel like very passionate about this one thing the next day you just feel like complete shit like wow this is what i mean maybe maybe this would be different

if i had kids or something like that maybe this is a signal or something you you got to step away you got to hug the young ones you got to be like hey this is what i'm doing it for this is why i'm in the music discourse trenches digging for uh hot take gold is to put food in the miles of these children you know so it's good to be reminded of why that is can i make i have no opinion about Fifth Wave Emo. To me, my understanding from, I've dabbled in the discourse about this, my understanding is that it was brought up initially as kind of a joke or like a good nature thing, and then it got turned into this like, you know, Tempice in a teapot type situation.

Yeah. My one contribution to it is I just want to make a parallel between emo and jam band culture because, you know, you have all these waves of emo. and I believe the fourth wave of emo would have been like 10 years ago. Like it's not that long ago that there was a fourth wave. I want to point out that like I think what they finally came up with is that fifth wave basically encompasses anything that started in 2017. Oh man. Yeah.

So fourth wave was going right up until 2017. And then like I really don't think our audience has the capacity or the bandwidth right now for me to get into. Yeah. I don't, weed emo means. So let's just, let's just cut this off. Yeah, let's cut this off at the past. I just want to do my quick jam band parallel because. Yes, I really want to hear this.

Well, it reminds me about how, like, when people talk about fish, there's 1.0 fish, there's 2.0 fish, and there's 3.0 fish. Referring to different eras of the band, 1.0 fish being basically fish in the 90s, up until they went on their hiatus after 2000. then 2.0 fish is 2002 to 2004 when they came back, and it's a very druggy period. Trey Anastasio was falling into addiction at that time, and he ended up, of course, getting busted in 06, and of course he recovered after that, and he's been doing great ever since, which is wonderful. 2009, they come back, and it's 3.0 fish, and now the argument or the discussion in the Jam-Ban community

is when fish is able to tour again. will they now be 4.0 fish? So they might be entering their fourth wave as Emo is entering its fifth wave. So maybe we can do a mash-up of these two conversations. I want to bring the Emo and the Jam-Ban people together. I want to be the conduit to make that happen. We've covered Emo, we've covered fish.

It's only natural that this episode covers ska. I mean, like, let's just bring in all the... these like straggler you know subcultures that get made fun of by the cool kids who listen to Ice Age and you know let's this is what Indycast is about it's like the Hortor meets

Warp Tour meets whatever Warp Tour again that was kind of the scoffice and those are our people we love these people we love the people the uncool kids who are the true believers who love the music that they love

even though they know it's unfashionable We wave the flag for them, and that's why maybe we take shots at bands like Ice Age, who have a new album out today called Seek Shelter. And I don't know. We've taken shots at Ice Age in the past. We have. I don't want to gratuitously say mean things about them, because I know a lot of people legitimately, well, I won't say a lot of people, but there's a constituency out there that really loves

Ice Age legitimately. And also, you know, whenever I've talked about Ice Age on Twitter, it's like crickets, like nobody cares. So I'm also worried about boring people by talking about Ice Age. But I mean, did you listen to the new record? Yeah. I like, look, man, I do this for the love of the sport and I listen to the new Ice Age record because, you know, they, now look, look, you might not want to take gratuitous shots at Ice Age, but, you know, that's how you and I are built different because I am done. I think the funny. I'm going to good cop, bad cop this.

I'm going to be the good cop. And then I leave the interrogation room and then you come in. Wait, no, I guess you come in first as the bad cop. And then the good cop comes in after that. Anyway. Well, either way, I think like I was one. I really advocated for Ice Age back in the new brigade days. But yeah, with this new record, it's interesting that like I take a look at Ice Age's

trajectory over the past decade. And, you know, in some ways, they're like a quintessential indie cast band where they put out records pretty consistently every two or three years, like the same 12 people on Twitter rave over it. And it just has like, like you were saying, getting crickets. There is just no impact outside of, you know, the, the concentric circles of music critics, I suppose. And I listen to this new record and the interesting part about it is that um now look they've been quote leveling up on every single album for like the past 10 years like this time you know they're really leveling up man it's like this is going to be playing festivals and you know this one is kind of geared towards i guess like a late 90s idea of festivals like primal scream you know there's some

uh oasis or verve in there but to me it just sounds like i i don't feel like i'm at like Glastonbury or this sprawling European festival. I feel like it's like 3 p.m. at Pitchfork Festival and you know like I'm there! I'm there! I'm rimshodding that one. That's a good one. That was a good

that's a good one. That was like a good insult comic type joke. I like it. But it's the way I feel. I mean I think a lot of this a lot of what they do is like superficially like this should be my shit but like I think there's just weirdly conservative about this record.

It just seemed... Yeah, I mean, that's what confounds me about Ice Age, is that this direction that they've moved in, and you're mentioning bands that I love. I mean, the oasis, the verve, you mentioned probable scream. Like, this record reminds me a lot of that primal scream record

where they tried to rip off the Rolling Stones. Yes. Give out, but don't give up, which... Yeah, the one with the Confederate flag. Yeah. cover up. I for years, by the way, I for years thought that like the Rocks off Rolling Stone song was like that song that they saw on it, they had on MTV called Rocks. Like, you got a hand it to Primal Screen when they like go in character. They go all the way. Well, yeah, I mean,

because that album overall wasn't very good, but like, rocks is like a banger. I mean, they, they delivered with that. I mean, you know, they were doing this trashy retro rock and roll thing. And they actually came up with a really good trashy rock and roll song. And I think my frustration with Seek Shelter is that they don't deliver like the filthy, disreputable bangers that you want from a record like this. It's just a lot of lurching, bombastic, meandering songs that don't really have great hooks. Like, there's a part of me that's just like, oh, higher, like, a producer like Dave Sardi and make like a jet record.

You know, make, you know, make a record like Get Born, you know, which all the critics would hate, but it would actually deliver on this trashy rock guys that you're trying to emulate on this album. It's, it's like you said, I feel like it's a little too conservative. It's a little too much like we're catering to the people with good taste with this album. Yeah. Which, an album like this, it should have bad taste. It should be like just go for, you know, the hooks, go for the sleasiness, you know, go for, you know, the gusto with this.

So, yeah, to me, it's just the disappointment, I think. That, like, this is a band that they've gotten like four best new musics or five in the last decade. Well, I would imagine that if they put out five albums, they've gotten five. So it's like a solid, this is like Panda Bear slash Bradford Cox numbers. Yeah, I don't know. Again, I know people love them and in Godspeed. This is just the band. It's like a head scratcher for me at terms of the reception that they've gotten.

I just find I always give their albums a chance and I'm always disappointed. And even when they're doing things that I would enjoy, I just don't feel like they're executing it the way in a satisfactory matter for me anyway. that's that's that's that's that's that's the troubling part it's like man I should really like this I think the for me it's like they just need to get more blasphemous with it you know like it's exactly make a sell out right have it's so good yeah I think like the song that comes to mind as like you know the goofus and gallant sort of thing like they need to do I always want to die sometimes by the 1975. That is how you do, like, real over the top, like, I am a Golden God, Brit rock-style music. I'm going to go back to Jet again. Rip off Lus for Life. Do, are you going to be my girl? Are

you going to be my girl is a great rock song? It's dumb. It's loud. But, like, if you hear that in a bar, it kills. It's not this chin-stroking music writer music. It's like bar room music. It delivers. And this record just doesn't deliver on that sort of gut level, visceral level that I think an album like this needs to. Or, you know, if you're going to talk about Oasis, you know, emulate Supersonic, emulate, you know, live forever, songs like that that are just, they're more, you know, heart than brains. Like there's very little brains, but it's like all heart and guts. You know, that's what this kind of music needs. And I just feel like, ah, I wish they could be pushing. in that direction.

So, you know. I can't wait to us having this conversation two years from now when Ice Age levels up again. So let's just, we can put a pin in this one for the time being. Maybe they're listening and taking notes on a legal pad. And they're like, okay, make a record like Get Born. Okay, we can do that. And I would be the only one who liked it. It would tank their critical cred, but I would give them a rave review if they did that.

I want to talk to you quick about something you tweeted this week. because it's the first festival lineup that I found myself, like, genuinely feeling affection for. And it's unfortunate because it's from four years ago. But I don't know if you want to tell the story, because you tweeted this thing, you went to, like, a festival in Memphis on, like, Cinco de Milo. Yeah. Yeah, this was when I was living in Benton, Kentucky. It's a town of about, like, 2,000 people in Western Kentucky as part of my dietetic

internship. And the cool thing about that city is that it's like, it's about two, three hours away from like Memphis, St. Louis, Nashville. And so on the weekend, you could just say, yep, I want to drive two and a half hours to go see a Cardinals game or see this music festival. And it was an entire weekend. That's what I tend to forget. But I definitely had to go on the Friday night because it was taking, on one stage, mind you. Taking back Sunday, some 41. Jimmy World and Snoop Dog at the end. And also there was like widespread panic at another at another stage. I think later that weekend, Drive-by Truckers played.

The last night, the Sunday night, same stage. It was Soundgarden, Bush, Midnight Oil, Alter Bridge, which is like, Alter Bridge was like the Pooh Fighters to Creed's Nirvana, I suppose. Right. And the opening band on that stage, 3.30, like, people just filing in and eating their funnel cakes, machine gun Kelly. So, guys, like, bands, if you're wondering, it's like, man, is this really worth it? Like, am I getting anywhere?

Like, you could be, like, opening for Alter Bridge at a Memphis music festival in May and then, you know, and then be, like, the biggest pop punk acting world. And Midnight Oil. Midnight Oil in the middle there, too. Your guess is as good as mine. I mean, you know, I mean, look, the thing about this line, and by the way, Soundgarden, I mean, this would have been not long before Chris Cornell passed away, which, you know, would have been amazing to see that. The reason I love this lineup is that the thing I've realized about music festivals is that I think I'd like the smaller community festivals more. Oh, yeah.

The big ones because of this weird combination of bands. Because you go to a festival, it's clearly not the best environment to actually hear a band that you love. You know, you want to go see a band that you love in a club or a theater where you're surrounded by people who actually like this music and you can hear it in a nice sounding venue and it's just a better experience. If you're going to a festival, it really is just about the environment and having a good time. I'm looking at this lineup and it's like a lot of bands that I kind of like or I know some of their songs. and I'm like, yeah, that's a band that I want to hear, play on a stage in the middle of the street when I've had, you know, several beers on like a summer afternoon. I mean, that to me is like a fun festival experience.

And maybe I'm showing my age here that I'd be excited to see a festival where it's midnight oil in Bush. You're going to hear beds are burning a machine head. What a great day. Like, I'm not even kidding, man. But it's sort of like... I've been to Coachella and there have been like hours. at a time where it's like I have no bands I want to see right now. But, you know, these local festivals,

like San Diego has this one called Kaboo, which is in Del Mar, which is like a really affluent part of the city. And they'll have like Nelly, Wu-Tang Clan, Ario Speedwagon, Boyce to Men, and like Kings of Leon. It's like the most random best one put together for the sort of people who, you know, live in Del Mar. But like, what I've heard is that everyone who goes there has like the best. time. That sounds magical because what it is is it's like you're basically just going on like iPod shuffle but like in a live situation. So, because it's like would you, would you ever see boys to men by themselves? Would you ever see midnight oil by themselves? These are all artists that like you'd be like, I never would just go pay money to see them by themselves. But it's like

you're walking by a stage and then you hear I'll make love to you or you'll hear Benzer burning just coming from a random stage and you're like, hell yeah, I'm going to. hang around to hear this random song that like oh yeah i actually like this song i haven't thought about this in like a long time but this is pretty fun i think about like my favorite version of this like i mean this isn't like a festival festival but when i was living in lexington there was a october fest sort of couple day festival where it's you know a way for all the lexington cool parents to like you know give their kids babysitters and go out and have fun and like go to food trucks and see bands.

The only bands that I really remember, like the headliner of Friday night was Jim Blossoms, and the next night was a fastball. Oh, yes. I did not see fastball. I definitely saw Jim Blossoms, and they definitely covered Folsom Prison Blues. Oh, my God. They were covering. That was a memorable night.

I saw them, and they covered Let Down by Radiohead, which I thought was actually I thought that was actually a pretty awesome cover. It's like a jangly radio head song. It's like the most Jim Blossom-sounding radio head song, probably. So they were able to lock into that, which was pretty brilliant. But yeah, I don't know. Because seeing all these big festivals come back and you see the lineups, and it's like, oh, it's all the same people.

Future Islands. Yeah, future islands, they're on every lineup. And it just feels a little like, oh, well. Chance the rapper. Yeah, it just feels like a little sort of boilerplate. But then you get to these smaller festivals and just like the random assemblage of different artists who aren't as famous or, you know, as, I guess, relevant to modern music. But you're just like, oh, yeah, like, it'd be kind of fun to go on a stage.

Like, again, like that stage that you saw where you have, you could go see Snoop Dog or widespread panic. You know, like, those are your choices. They're like, oh, yeah, hell yeah. I would probably bounce between both stages. That would be really fun. I went to a state university in the late 90s. I can enjoy this. Exactly.

I mean, I did. Exactly. Let's move on to our mailbag segment here. This question comes from a listener name Sean. Sean did not say where he was from. Please say where you're from. We're just going to assume that you're from Pennsylvania if you don't say where you're from.

I feel like, or Canada. Pennsylvania or Canada. We have a lot of listeners. It's Michigan or Canada. It's some Midwest state, but not Illinois or Canada. And by the way, I realize I haven't been saying the email address that you can send emails to lately. And actually, we created a new email address just for Indycast Mailbag. It's called Indycastmailbag at gmail.com.

So very easy to remember if you're listening, if you want to send us a question. and we'd love to hear from you. Again, that's Indiecast Mailbag at gmail.com. Here's Sean's question. Hey, Stephen and Ian, I found this podcast after Stephen's review of the Greta Van Fleet album got retweeted into my timeline, and I've been vinging the pod to its first episode since.

As the only person that really likes music and particularly indie rock in my friend group, it's been great to listen to people. Talk about the type of music I listen to and find some new stuff too. Oh, that's cool, Sean. Thank you. Yeah.

We're coming up on the anniversary of Scott Hutchison's death, and this was the first music death as a guy in his mid-20s that really impacted me. Of course, talking about the frightened rabbit frontman here. The midnight organ fight got me through a pretty tough college breakup, and my question is twofold. What is the quintessential indie rock breakup album, and who was the first music death that impacted you guys? Thanks, love the pod, Sean. So two questions here. quintessential breakup album for indie rock and like he's asking like who was the first music death that really impacted you do you have answers to these questions

I do man these are heavy ones we this this took a turn to like now for a more serious talk but yeah it's it's funny for like first of all I love the fact that this guy found us through a Greta van Fleet album review and also like the guy in the friend group who listens to indie rock like the one guy i feel like that's kind of the audience that i'm looking to get oh yeah like the person that is our sean you're our people so yeah that's our that's our that's our number one demo absolutely so as as far as like breakup albums go it's funny because like i haven't like when i used to listen to those i used to seek them out like when i was in no danger of all of being in a relationship aka college i mean it was just like i thought that was

like the only kind of concept album you could do besides like pink floyd stuff so i mean you know back in the day when it was like you know cursives domestica or you know i know i know i'll never listen to this album again heartbreaker um or things like that um you know or fevers and mirrors those were great like at the time because it kind of gave me this sense of like oh you know relationships are going to be like major and dramatic and like it was almost like a wish for things that. it in a way. And when I think about it now, like, as I've had, like, adult relationships that have actual impact and have ended, like, I never find myself, like, reaching for those kind of albums in that moment. Like, I feel, like, I just listen to what I listen to. Like, I don't need to,

you know, sit down and, you know, put on, like, domestica and think about, like, how the martyr reflects my life. But I also think that, like, as, as music, um, in general, has shifted away from like the, for lack of a better term, sad white guy point of view for the most part. I feel like the breakup out, like as it's known for people of our age, is sort of fallen by the wayside. I can't think of too many, like, of recent vintage that got like the same amount of acclaim as the ones we had mentioned before. But, you know, the Midnight Oregon fight, I mean, as far, like to answer the second question about like, you know, the deaths that affect me the most, I mean, like, I'm 41 years old, so, like, I was obviously, like, a music fan, like, cognizant of the world at large when, you know, Kirk Cobain and Lane Staley died. And, but, like, and Elliot Smith, but, like, I don't remember, like, being shook up.

I mean, they were tragic, but, like, the one that actually, I think, affected me the most, um, the first, like, the first one that I felt, like, really, um, you know, shook up by was actually, I think, Scott Hutchinson. And, you know, to get, I haven't really talked about this, you know, publicly or whatever. But, like, you know, what happened with him is that I was a huge frightened rabbit fan, particularly like the Fat Cat ears. And, you know, as they started to make albums on Atlantic, I felt like I didn't connect with them as much. And, you know, I think with like sad, sad people music, there gets to a point, like, I've said this about the national where you start to kind of play a character. And the last album that Fright and Rabbit did, a picture of a panic attack, I reviewed it.

And I didn't know much about like, you know, Scott Hutchison as a person. I was pretty dismissive of it. I thought they were just kind of spinning their wheels. And a few years later, like, you know,

as he, you know, tragically took his own life. I mean, you look back on that review and like, that's the one I regret the most because like I didn't know about his mental health state.

I don't think people were talking about mental health as much, uh, publicly. And, you know, you look back on it and it just seems like just very callous. And that really, it shook me up because it really kind of forced me to look at, you know, the people who make music as like it humans who are like going through shit. And I think that was also kind of the case with like Chester Bennington when he died as well. Because for more people he was seen as this like kind of caricature of like angst and not like someone who was dealing with his own personal demon. So, I mean, I mean, that's kind of, that of anything I've done as a writer, probably the thing I regret the most.

You know, at the time, like, I was honest about how I felt about the record, but, like, not really considering the people behind it. And so I guess that's, like, why, you know, Scott Hutchinson is probably that, that, you know, it has affected me the most to this point. Yeah, it's interesting when you write about stuff and, you know, because you're writing about a record, you're not necessarily. writing about the person, but those things get intertwined, the artist and what they make. And as much as people want to say that art just stands on its own, it's impossible if you create something not to feel personally invested in something you've put out, especially if you're writing about yourself or your own experiences. So, and if you're in a position where you're actually like writing as a critic about these things,

you don't intend to impugn someone personally, but if you are writing about their art, how can you not be impugning them on some level? So that's a very complicated thing. To go back to the breakup album question, I think for indie rock, the correct answer is for Emma forever ago, the Bonnever record that immediately came to mind.

I feel like, again, the iconic go-to-a-cabin because you've been had your heart broken and you write these sad songs and they become a huge hit. You know, the mythology of that album, it was such a big part of the success of the record. I feel like that immediately came to mind. And I understand what you're saying about breakup records. I do feel like there's a certain time in your life where you are more apt to be drawn to this kind of record in your late teens, early 20s. And for the reasons that you talked about, I think that there's something. romantic about having your heartbroken at that age.

Like you aspire in some way, at least if you're a certain kind of person, to be in this, you know, very kind of romantic love affair that ends in a very dramatic kind of way. And then you go off and you lick your wounds and you create this beautiful piece of art. I mean, that's a very powerful narrative. I mean, I think you're right in terms of like the critical conversation. I think critics are less apt to praise an album like that maybe now for the political reasons that you mentioned. However, I still feel like normal people are still probably drawn to that narrative

because it's a powerful narrative. And it's relatable to people. I mean, you know, heartache is one of the few things that we all go through at some point. Everyone, no matter who you are, you get your heartbroken. So, you know, there's a reason why records like that, this land as well as they do because it's such a universal experience. As far as like the, you know, the musician passing away that affected me, you know, the first one is a obvious answer because of my age. It would be Kirk Cobain, you know, that happened when I was 16 and I was a big Nirvana

fan and just the way, you know, he took his life. I mean, that was such a shocking thing at the time. I would say that in more recent years, David Berman, his passing, was affecting. And in a similar thing to you, I mean, part of it was because I'd interviewed him not long before he died. And when we talked, he seemed so hopeful to me about his future and wanting to go back on the road. And he even said, like, hey, he was coming to Minneapolis. and I was like, I'd love to meet you in person. He's like, that would be great. So we made tentative plans to do that.

And for all the darkness that he, of all the darkness on the songs from the Purple Mountains record, I think based on that conversation, I just felt like, well, maybe he's purged that and he will be okay. And so for him to take his own life on the verge of that tour was pretty devastating. So, yeah, so that would be my answer for that. I mean, and all of these answers that we've given, it's all people who took their own life. I mean, because I think that's just the most shocking kind of death.

I mean, because I can also say, like, Tom Petty. Like, when Tom Petty died, I was pretty affected by it. But that's, like, a little bit different. But I'm still bummed that Tom Petty died. I mean, in terms of, like, an older musician, that would be the one that I think about the most. You know, I feel like at this point, point we need a pick me up or maybe a pick it up pick it up pick it up god Steve oh my god this is like we got to pick it up that is like that that that seems to me like some really good parenting skills

and like everyone the car is depressed after the families had like a big fight like I think this is where your parenting comes into play yeah I mean you know it's I think we could all use it so let's segue here to the meat of our episode here talking about yes scab and we're talking about this because I feel like there's something in the air right now where people are talking about ska you had the Jeff Rosenstock album that recently came out there's a there's a book coming out I think literally called in defense of ska that is what it's called Aaron Karned yeah I think people are wondering if this this would I guess would be the fourth wave of ska unless there's like a more famous unless there's like a less like more obscure wave I mean let's give a little background on

Scott here before we get into our conversation. This is a music genre that originated in Jamaica in the late 1950s. And I guess you could say if you were going to describe it to someone who's never heard Scott before, I assume everyone here is at least familiar with ska, but it's music, it has

like a walking bass line. It's there's rhythmic accents on the offbeat. You usually have like some sort of horn section in there. You might have a guy in your band who only dances and doesn't play an instrument. That's not required, but there are three waves of ska that people talk about.

There's the original wave, which is the Jamaican scene of the 1960s. The second wave would be from like the late 70s, like that two-tone movement, a lot of British bands, a lot of integrated bands, bands like the specials and madness and the English beat. and then the third wave is from the 80s and 90s, which I feel like is the wave that you and I are probably most familiar with because it coincides with our teen years. And it's also, it seems like the music that Jeff Rosenstock is most directly referencing on his record. Wouldn't you say, I mean, it reminds me of a lot of like the Scott Punk records

that I personally did not. buy but I know well because all my friends love that kind of music you know like Operation Ivy like the early rancid records you know things like like like less than Jake like that kind of stuff yeah there you go yeah because I thought when you were like talking about like the sky like I know like I think I'm not trying to say that Operation Ivy and Primus are like the same but this kind of calls back to a previous episode where like you either own the Primus album or like just someone in your friend group has it

and that's how you hear it. It's never like you go to your CD rack pull off like Operation Ivy. It's like a dubbed cassette tape or just in that CD in that logic CD binder. It's just if you if you're of our age group

it was just in the air like just somebody had that. And I think that's something it might be hard to really put that across the people who weren't around at the time that this wasn't a niche thing. If you were in your teens, early 20s, if you were like in high school culture, basically, or middle school culture in the 90s, I feel like, yeah, you didn't have to buy these CDs. It was just sort of, like, it was like contact buzz from your friends. It would always be playing. And even I, like,

who would, I wouldn't describe myself as a ska fan in the 90s. But, but, Like, I was, I went to ska festivals at that time. There was a ska festival at my college. I skanked on occasion. Have you ever skanked, Ian? I, I, I, probably, like, skanked, like, probably in a joking way. But hold on. I'm not ready to, like, I'm not ready to leave the topic of, um, a ska festival in a

Wisconsin college town. Like, O'Clair, Wisconsin. Yeah, you cannot, you can, like, yeah. And there was one in my hometown, too. There was one in my hometown. I'm from Appleton, Wisconsin. It was called Scoppelton. We had a Scott Festival at Lawrence University, which is the local college in Appleton.

So we had a Scott Festival there. So, yeah, again, that shows how far this filtered down. I mean, there was not. Were you getting the big Scott acts there, or was it, like, local, or was it a combination? I'm trying to remember. I mean, I don't know. I can't remember. I mean like, you know, like

Goldfinger or something didn't come to my town. I mean, they might have like down the road a little bit like after they had kind of worn off their MTV shine or like real big fish or mustard plug or something and they never came to my town. But, you know, we should say, by the way, that the name of the Jeff Rosenstock record is called Skad Dream. It is a sort of like a redone version of his 2020 album.

And it's like these are, ska versions of the songs on that record, essentially. And it sounds like in a way it started up as a goof, and then it became almost like a ska tribute album because there's like a bunch of musicians on this record. And we should pull up like the list of guest stars. Yeah, fish. Fishbones on there.

I got from Fishbone. You know, Jeff Rosenstock. I remember when I interviewed him back in 2018. or 19. We talked about Skobit, and, you know, he had to remind me, it's like, dude, I'm in like an actual ska band, Bruce Lee Band, who just dropped a new single. And I think it is kind of a goof in the sense that, like, the titles are all just putting words like Skah or Rudy or pick it up wherever they can.

But, you know, these guys are, these are guys who know their shit. And I think that it would be more, it would be very difficult to come up with, like, a better crossover type album for the indie world because people already love Jeff Rosenstock. People, you know, the songs themselves are familiar. It's not like we're doing it from scratch. Also, Jeff Rosenstock, to my knowledge, the only person who ever played a Scott song at Pitchfork Music Festival. Oh, man.

Yeah, so he's a guy who just, yeah. So, I mean, so I think that this album itself has gotten just, there's been a lot, but I got to say that like we got to give a shout out to like Brooklyn vegan Andrew over there like that guy's been on this stuff for years like and he's been saying that like you know Scott's coming back and you know people like you and I it's like how is that possible it's a big live scene there's eight people in the band but what's interesting to me is that I do the way that like the Scott whatever comeback or revival if you want to describe it is like well if it happened for Remo and if it happened for, you know, these other genres, like, why not ska?

And, you know, I think that's kind of reductive, but, like, also, like, people, like, people really do love this stuff, you know? Well, the thing with ska that's interesting to me in this moment is that it's so antithetical to what indie music is at this moment, you know, it's very... Or any moment? Well, it's very upbeat and it's very energetic as opposed to being, you know, downbeat and vibe and briby and songs about mental illness and songs about, you know, how you feel alienated in Trump's America. I mean, that's basically what indie music has been for like the last several years.

It's music, as you said, that is very much about playing live. It's about musicianship. It's about like lots of people in your band as opposed to like one person recording in their bedroom and then posting it on band camp. And it's ultimately like very social music. You know, I said this somewhat sardonically earlier, you know, me talking about going to Scott Festivals in the 90s and skanking and stuff. And it's easy to clown on that. But at the same time, it's like, you know, I had a good time at the time. I'm dancing. I'm with friends. It's not the kind of band or music or festival that you go see and cross your arms and just stand there and do nothing.

It is music that demands interaction with other people, which in this moment, where we're slowly coming out of our caves, maybe that will have appeal to people. Like, hey, we've been in our own bubble for so long. Maybe it would be fun to go dance, to really peppy, energetic music played by good musicians, and we can have a good time. I mean, that to me is the best case for that.

I mean, the thing with Scott for me is always that, like, as a genre, it's like putting garland. garlic in your food. It, like, kind of overwhelms everything. You know, it's very distinctive. It's hard to integrate into other kinds of music. I mean, I think with Rosenstock, and I've interviewed Jeff, too, a couple of times, and we always end up talking about ska at some point.

Like, he is the ska, you know, ambassador in indie rock. He's been in the years. I mean, he actually was able to integrate Scott into his recent records. Like, you think about worry. being his big indie breakthrough, that's sweet on the second half of the record, there's ska songs in there, you know,

that he's integrating with other kinds of music. And I think in a way, that's even, like, more palatable than, I mean, this album is so fun, this Scott Dream record, and I would definitely recommend checking it out. But I think Jeff's ability to integrate that with other kinds of music

is actually, like, pretty unique and might be more of a path to, forward for this kind of music for people that maybe don't want a whole album of ska but like with like maybe some ska accents but I don't know it seems like it's hard to bring into other kinds

of music to me yeah well the thing is like there was a huge hit song by a bank I believe they're called the interruptors um they were on like the guy from Rancid Tim Armstrong I believe he has like a label called Hellcat which is I believe

tied into epitaph and anti that kind of just does ska and the internet they had a huge hit so but like I think that was kind of a one-off and um I think you're right in that like straight up ska is like going to be a lot for people and I think that's really going to be the determinant of like whether it you know catches a wave beyond like curiosity or hey we remember that time that like pitchfork reviewed uh Jeff Rosenstock Sky album because there are a lot of like new bands that are intertwined with the punk emo or DIY world, jur from the Scott Toon Network. You know, they're all over the place.

They're in a band called We Are the Union, which could be kind of a breakthrough in that realm. Like it's sort of got, you know, a narrative, like kind of a transgender dysphoria of blues sort of thing going on. And, you know, that's what's interesting to me because it's one thing to say, oh, ha, Maybe the Boss Tones records were actually pretty good. Or no, Scott was actually like really progressive as far as like bringing together people of different races and social classes and such.

But, you know, I'm interested to see if people are actually willing to embrace the new band that are doing it, you know? Well, yeah, I can definitely see a situation, you know, because going back to music festivals, you know, that conversation. There is, I think you go to some of the hipper music festivals. certainly in the indie realm and there is, I think there can be a bit of a sameness to it where you have like singer-songwriter, you know, avant-garde R&B artist, you know, Brooklyn indie band,

you know, it's like a lot of things that are sort of in the same downbeat lane. And I could definitely see a situation where you had a ska band in a situation like that that could actually kill because it seems like in that environment, like Skah would be great, like a summer afternoon. where you're in a party atmosphere. I mean, it seems like it would work well.

And, you know, one thing we haven't, you were touching on this a bit, you know, the political element of this kind of music, I think, is pretty potent. I mean, there's a long history of integrated bands in ska. Going back, you know, many years. I mean, again, that was a big thing about the second wave of ska, which was about, you know, bringing musicians of different races together and having them play together.

and I think that might be something that contemporary bands could take inspiration from. Absolutely. You know, so I think there's potential there for something where if you want to ground the music, where it's not just about having a good time, but you're grounding it in some political, socially conscious message. I could see that happening. But, I mean, I don't know. I mean, this is the kind of music that, and we alluded to this at the beginning of the episode,

that it's very easy to make jokes about ska because it's essentially... It has a sense of humor, though. It does. I mean, like, if you think about, if you think about, like, the stuff that we like, you know, less than Jake, real big fish, they, like, they made, in a lot of ways, very funny music. It's funny and it's good-natured, you know, and I think... Yeah. Which makes it susceptible to be clowned on by, like, miserable people online who, like,

don't like to have fun, you know? like the good-natured people who are dancing and just laughing, it's like, well, you can stand on the sidelines and cross your arms and make fun of it if you want. But I don't know, it's hard for me. Even if I'm not necessarily like listening to ska all day long, I do appreciate like what Jeff is doing. And was it Aaron Carnes?

He's the author of the defensive ska. Do we know when that book comes out? I think it's coming out. It came out, I believe, on the fourth. Oh, came out this week. It came out this week. Yeah, and I believe they've got a podcast going on as well. They'll talk, I did an interview with Barry from Joyce Manor, who was sort of in a ska band before Joyce Manor.

By the way, Joyce Manor met originally. They met on the Orange County SCA message board. So a lot of your band, like, it is, a lot of people use that as kind of a gateway towards other forms of punk. And, you know, I remember, like, I think the one VFW show that I went to while I was in high school was this, like, local ska, local ska show. And I don't remember much, but I do remember the first two songs the guy, the band played, where, like, one was about masturbation. The other was getting a restraining order. So, you know, it's music that definitely doesn't take itself too seriously. I have no idea why I remember those, like, those two things, literally nothing else about that show.

Yeah, I just had a brainstorm. I think you and I need to organize the first ever indie cast music festival. And it's just going to be emo bands, ska bands, and jam bands. And the headliner will be muse playing the second law in its entirety. This could be the worst or the best music festival of all time. It depends on who we can get on the bill. It would definitely be different, man. We're going to bring the emo, the Scott, and the jam band community together.

I think that if all those people, if we can get them together, we can overthrow the overlords of modern indie rock. You know, we can establish a new empire. Our movement has become too powerful. Like, it's just when you unify like the jam band people and the ska people and the emo people and, you know, the one friend in the friend group who still like looks online to find music. Yeah.

Like, this movement just cannot be stopped. So you heard of here first. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? Yeah, let's get, speaking of, like, throwing together a bunch of, like, strange genres into one record. This band, and also fifth wave stuff, if you have to pick one chip tune,

emo power pop record from Montana this year. I would recommend it be Hey, I-L-Y. Maybe they pronounce it, Hey, I Love You. But this is a band I've had my eye on a lot this year. They put out a couple singles that remind me of, I don't know if they're making music anymore, but a band called Crying, which was kind of going with a similar like chip tune slash power pop sound and they're badly missed.

but this album also integrates some like screamo or like black metal or acoustic instrumentals. It's an EP called Internet Breath. And when you look at like the cover, it's very kind of cutesy, very eight bit. But, you know, the songwriting is like very, very like legitimate. It's a record that sounds like nothing else out there. And I think this is why people get so passionate about Fifth Wave because like it sounds nothing. Like you wouldn't hear this to think, oh, that's an emo band. but like the attitude of it and also the connections it makes to you know bands like

Glass Beach or weather day or home is where um it's still pretty low-fi I think they have just so much potential to do even better stuff uh but I do see them kind of being like a singles or an EP band but this new one internet breath hey I L Y uh this is a record you're going to know if you love it like within the first 10 seconds and if you like if you get to the part of this episode where I recommend stuff. I imagine this will be your shit too. Yeah, I was, you know, I saw people talking about this album on Twitter and I thought, oh, I'm going to hate this album.

And I put it on and I really enjoyed it. I like this album a lot. And I'll just say that I feel like sometimes, you know, because you hear about like, oh, it's like, it's like Nintendo music with power pop and emo and like all these things kind of being pushed together that on paper don't seem like they fit. And I feel like those elements, it gives the record an interesting, like, sonic character. But at its core, it's just, like, really good songs. Like, these are good pop rock songs that just, again, have, like, really kind of cool and interesting and maybe even, like, wacky sonics to them.

But, yeah, I like this EP a lot as well. So I'm going to double that recommendation from Ian. What I'm recommending this week is a band called Lightning Bug. This is a band from Brooklyn. They have a new album coming out in June called A Color of the Sky. And this is a record that I've just been playing on a loop. It's definitely one of my favorite albums of 2021. So that's why I'm talking about it now.

I'm sure I'll be talking about it again next month once we get closer to the release date. But you can go on band camp right now. You can pre-order the record. You can hear some sample tracks ahead of time. This is a band that they've been active since, like, the early to mid-2010s. They're led by a singer-songwriter named Audrey Kang. And they've been described often as shoegaze. But I think that's, like, a little reductive because to me, there's a lot of other things going on in this music.

There's a lot of, like, ambient textures. There's some, like, really great, like, alternative rock dynamics. I mean, to me, it's just, like, this big, beautiful, like, dreamy rock record that just envelopes you. It creates a world onto itself. Really beautiful. Sonics and just great songs. So again, I feel like I'll have more to say when this record drops next month, but I just want to put this band on your radar.

They're called Lightning Bug. You can look them up on streaming platforms. I'd recommend going to their band camp page. Check out the sample tracks. Pre-order the record. But yeah, I think this is a band to watch in 2021. Yeah, I like their last record too. And, you know, it isn't Shugay specifically, but I do think that is a good entry point because if, like, you like Shugays, this might be the kind of singer-songwriter or slow core or whatever sort of record that might appeal to you anyway.

Yeah, just beautiful stuff. It's going to sound great in June. Yeah, I feel like, you know, you say Shugays and there's so many bands aping that now, and they do it in a cliche kind of way. So, like, I veer from that a little bit. It's not just, you know, loud guitars play through effects pedals while someone, like, mummer. underneath it. It's a lot more thoughtful and well put together than that. So yeah, definitely check out that band. And also check out, hey, ILY or hey, I love you, however you say that, two really good records right there. Thank you again. This is the end of our episode, but we appreciate

you listening to us talk about midnight oil for like a really long time in this episode. Hopefully you can do that again. But we will be back with more news reviews and hash you out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.