Indiecast - The 2022 Mid-Year Indiecasties

Episode Date: June 10, 2022

The Recording Academy has the Grammys, MTV has the VMAs, and Indiecast has the Indiecasties: a special, highly sought-after distinction honoring the best and worse of indie music. In this week's episode, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen nominate artists for several mid-year Indiecastie awards and discuss the most memorable indie music discourse thus far in 2022 (19:07).As for Indiecasties categories, Steven and Ian choose seven groupings: Most Valuable Album Cycle (in terms of Indiecast banter content 22:42), Music Writer Twitter Story Of The Year (which also provided a fair amount of banter 28:36), Memory Holed Album Of 2022 (albums released this year they've already forgotten about 35:57), Them? Album Of The Year (the biggest discrepancy between critical acclaim and what they've heard/felt/seen 42:26), Most Fun Narrative Of 2022 (some trends they saw among indie artists 50:46), and 2021 'Rediscovered' Albums (projects they would rank higher from last year 58:04). Among artists recognized in these categories are Arcade Fire, Harry Styles, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Father John Misty, Big Thief, Wednesday, and more.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 91 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we are giving away our mid-year award for indie rock semi-excellance, The Indycaste's. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's a diehard fan of Machina, the Machines of God.

Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? I honestly can't believe we haven't subtitled this episode. the Friends and Enemies of Modern Music. That is a Machina II reference. I think all of our intrepid indie cast Smashing Pumpkins fans will recognize that one. The 93-minute album that Billy Corgan released in September of 2000 because the label wouldn't put out one of his records for free. And right before they broke up for the first time. Not the last.

Is it sacrilege to say that Machina 2 a little bit better than Machina? I don't know if that's sacrilege. I think that Machina, particularly at the time, got so much shit from both the public and Smashing Pumpkins fans. I think every single critic except Jim Deerogadis hated it. That you couldn't help but love Machina to more almost by default. Even though, like, God, that record was so, that, like, Billy Coring was ahead of his time in so many ways. And this one was, he just gave that album to, like, really influential people in the Chicago.

music scene who then distributed it and online and you know the problem with that record is that it sounds exactly like a 128 like kbp rip from 2000 I'm like I would love to hear a remastered or actually properly mastered version of that album because it sounds like complete dog shit but I mean the fuzziness kind of works on a lot of those songs though I mean like when they're covering soul power okay you know that should be 128 bits. We're talking about Smashingy Pumpkins because I wrote a big

retrospective list about the band, wrote 8,000 words on my 50 favorite Smashing Pumpkin songs. By the time this podcast posts, that will have been a week ago. But we are recording this episode the day after that published because Ian

you're doing sort of like a it's a very cinematic trip I feel like you're taking next week. You're going home, right? Aren't you going home? You're going to see some college friends? Yeah.

I didn't think of it cinematically so much as like, hey, East Coast band doing their first tour out of state. But yeah, I'm flying home to Philadelphia to see my family, and then I'm driving to Virginia for my 20...

The 20-year college reunion is actually happening, but like I'm not going to any of the events because the University of Virginia already got enough of my money. I'm not paying $200 fucking dollars for a dinner. But nonetheless, like,

I almost wish we could just have me set up like my recording station there because I think I would like completely change by tune and like the land of backyards and lawns and oh yeah decks and things like that like obviously as I'm about to embark on this trip I've been getting very nostalgic for music from that era and I think I talked about this on two episodes ago how I was like big time alt country in 2000. Absolutely. You're in the old country cradle, you know, in that part of the country. I mean, I would love it if you came back from this trip and you were just like, Steve, you're right about Heartland Rock. I just want to listen to Heartland rock all the time because I've been in the Heartland. It's changed my mind. I mean, I guess I think about this cinematically because you're going to be seeing college friends. It seems like very big chill, you know, like old millennial big chill type vibe. You're going to have realizations about your life maybe.

hanging out with these people. And instead of listening to Motown hits, the way Boomers did in that movie, you're going to be listening to My Morning Jacket and Yanky Hilltale Fox Trout or something. I mean, that's what I see you doing. That is kind of the truth. I mean, I thought it would be smart for us

to do a 2002-based episode. But if I really look at what 2002 was like at this time of year, which is right after graduation, like pre-every-dispersing to their parts of the country, Yeah, there was somebody morning jacket. I was definitely playing the shit at Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.

But the friends I'm seeing, it's like, it would actually be closer to accurate if we played Motown because I'm thinking like these friends specifically. We went to like Beach Week after graduation and like we just started by prior to us getting there the summer of Steve Miller as a joke. And then for the preceding week, one of my friends thought that was like really funny and just played Steve Miller band's greatest hits the entire fucking time. So the one with the blue cover, there's like a horse. There's like a horse on the cover. 74 to 78, I believe, is the time span for that album. So you've got, actually, you should tell them my idea about covering the Joker and the voice of the Joker.

Which I had that idea. That was like my hack, stand-up comedian idea. But the more I think about that, I feel, and if there's any bands out there listening to this show, if you do that, you will guarantee coverage on this show. If you cover the Joker and the voice of the Joker, we will devote a segment to you in the show. If we can, you know, bring this to realization, I think that would be an amazing thing. If someone does that, we will cut out, I don't know, the part where we talk about the St. Vincent cover of Funky Town for the Minion soundtrack. Like, we will put you above that.

That dropped. It will have been out for a week by the time this post, but I think that just dropped, right? It did, man. We're really running the risk of offending the banter God. by recording a week early. Yeah, I know. That's always the fear that, like, what if, like, the 1975, like, they'd release their album next week.

That'd be just a disaster for us. Then you would have to buy a mic and a recorder, and we'd have to do an emergency podcast if that happened. Barring that, hopefully, it'll probably be okay. This is, like, the quiet time of the year, I feel like, in terms of releases. So you're taking a vacation at a good time. I want to get back to Smashy Pumpkins. here because while the story will be old by the time this post,

Smashy Pumpkin's Talk is evergreen, especially on this show. And I'm curious, like, what you thought about my take on the band. I have to say, you know, I do these lists a lot. I don't really care about the rankings that much. It is more just a vehicle for me to expound on a band. So, like, I will sometimes group songs together because they fit a certain point I'm trying to make. even if like if I was just focused solely on the ranking,

I might shift things around. I mean, at the top, that's pretty solid for me, but like, I can't really tell what's the 33rd best song versus like the 37th best song. That's pretty arbitrary.

But all that aside, I know you're a big smashing pumpkins fan. What did you think about my ranking and how would you diverge from it? Yeah, like when you said I've written 8,000 words, I'm like, man, step your game up. I think I've, like, I've written, I, sometimes I, like, want to just, like, sit down and figure out how many words I've devoted to the smashing pumpkins over the course of my writing career. And, like, my word, what I got paid per word.

That's, yeah, you're talking about your entire career. I've written more than 8,000 words about pumpkins over the course of my career. Yeah, I mean, Corgan, and you and I are in agreement on this, he is one of the most fascinating rock stars of, our time. I'm endlessly, I could talk about him constantly because just the mix of genius and, like, petulance in him is, it's so fascinating. I mean, doing this list, it really was a reminder that at his peak, he was a songwriting machine, you know, the likes of which we have not seen. There's not many people that I think matches output from, say, I mean, especially that, like, from the Smasian Pumpkin, the Siamese Dream, Melon,

Collierra and then all the B-sides in that time where it's a quantity of songs and a quality of songs. Like I put pistachio medley on my list, which is an infamous B-side. It was on the zero single. It's like a 23-minute song. And it's like a compilation of unused riffs and demos that they recorded in this period. And there's like over 50. And I just included that because I wanted to make the point that this guy had so much material at this time.

that he could just throw it away. Because there's, like, a lot of cool riffs in that part. It just makes you think, like, if he had spaced out his hits a little better, I mean, I think people would think about them a little bit differently. Because he, I really feel like, you listen to the B-sides. There's, like, songs there that only a small fraction of people were ever going to hear. And they could have been, like, foundational tracks of their own albums. You know, that's how prolific he was at that time.

Yeah. as a Smashing Pumpkin super fan, like I read and probably like unintentionally memorized like all of his guitar world columns as well. You mentioned the one where he interviews Eddie Van Halen. I remember that guitar world very vividly. I read that one front to back and he would just say, yeah, I wrote pennies in like five minutes, which he probably did. But I mean, I'm of the opinion the Smashing Pumpkins are like the big. best alt rock band of the 90s. Maybe not the most legendary or the most influential or what have you.

But I mean, if you look from Gish to Adore and even maybe a little bit after that, the track record is just so astoundingly prolific and strong and diverse. I mean, I don't think anyone can really touch it. And you mentioned how if Billy Corrig is spaced out these hits more properly, maybe we'd think of him differently. I think if Billy Corgan, and Billy Corgan has said this, so I'm not like trying to be morbid here, but he's basically said if I had died in 1998, I would be like, I would be like seen as like Kirk Cobain. I would be seen as like, you know, as legendary as like radio head or whatever.

But yeah, I followed his 2010's output, his 2000s output. And it's pretty fucking grim. I got to hand it to you, like even more so than like discussing the top five or the top 10, which we're pretty much in agreement on a lot of it. Like a lot of my unusually high cuts would be like obscured and apples and oranges, which were there. I think you did a disservice to try, try, try, the best song on Machina. Right.

Which is really the most kind of like jangly, kind of countryish smashing pumpkin song. But yeah, I appreciate that you had to give some acknowledgement to Oceana. I think that's their best record post machina, hands down. Does swan count? Well, yeah, I'm just talking about smashing pumpkins, I guess. Which, by the way, I'm always paranoid if people actually read these things that I write or if they're just looking at the rankings. And several people on Twitter did say that they would burn me their Zwan CD

because I mentioned in there that I lost my Zwan CD. And you can't stream that on. album? No, there's a band called Zwan with 479 listeners on Spotify. With their big hits, Eternal Waltz, or no, Eternal Walls with a Z, Ariel Tor with with like the Swedish O and Mall full of Drugs, Zwan sound counterinsurgency remix. So they're just conning the small segment of Corrigan fans who want to find Zwan and they're being tricked into listening to this other band. It's not actually the real Zwan.

But anyway, I was very appreciative of the people who said, hey, I'll burn you a Zwan CD. I was like, these are my people. Yeah, you know, going back to your point about, like, you feel like they're the best alternative band. One thing that I really appreciated on this revisiting of their catalog was Billy Corrigan's just ability to write great guitar riffs. because that is something that I think has become almost extinct, even in great bands. Are there any bands that you could think of

that write really memorable guitar riffs? I mean, obviously, we're not going to compare them the Spanishing Pumpkins because they're, I think, one of the greats, certainly of their era. To me, they're the best riff band of the alternative rock era. You know, starting with today into, you know, like zero.

There's just so many great riffs that he wrote. Am I right and say? I don't recognize that in any band now. So I've seen people try to talk about the greatest riffs of modern times or what have you. And most of the time I see chord progressions, which to me aren't riffs. Like zero is a riff, but like say here is no why is like a chord progression. Chera Brock is a riff. Quiet is a riff

Right The best Like when I think of like a riff What immediately comes to mind And say like turnstiles A Real Thing From 2018 or mystery Like turnstiles got riffs

And their riffs are similar To Rays Against Machine did riffs But yeah Maybe like I guarantee you Like if we have a Currently reading Guitar World segment As opposed to People who read it when I did

they'll come up with a bunch of metal bands. Also, one of my favorite, we gotta give a shout to my favorite Billy Corgan quote of all time where he is doing his guitar world column and like Steve Lukather from Toto. He's like, Steve Lukather apparently thinks I'm a shitty guitarist, but uphold the line with the best riff I'd ever written. I'd keep my mouth shut.

Billy Corgan was so ahead of his fucking time with these petty beefs, man. Going after Steve Lukather. It's like, no, Nothing gets past Billy Corgan. I mean, the thing I would just say about Corgan in terms of writing riffs is that he could write heavy riffs that were also melodic and catchy, you know? And I think that is pretty unique. Just the ability for him to do that over and over again to the point again where he could just throw riffs away that I think could have been promising if he would have focused on them.

But it's like he already had like all these other songs. It was just like a bounty of riches in the 90s for him and pretty impressive. Before we get to the Indycastes, I feel like we should talk quick about Joyce Manor because their new record will be out the day that this podcast post. It's called 40 ounces to Fresno. You did a feature with Joyce Manor, which will presumably have run during the week that you're gone. Do you want to talk about that at all? I do.

I like this record a lot, by the way. Great. that's good to hear yeah you can listen to the No Joyce Manor album probably three times possibly four in the amount of time it takes to listen to this episode of Indycast

but like that means just Joyce Manor is back on their back doing what they do best which is making 17 minute albums this one I really enjoy it because in 2018 that album A Million Dollars to Kill Me like it just seemed like they were in a bit of

of a rut, which was in the air when I interviewed them. This is one of the two bands I've interviewed more than twice. The other one was M83. And I've watched Joyce Manor throughout the years. Once I interviewed them in 2014 for Grantland, RIP Grantland, and then four years later when they were kind of famous, not famous so much, but like really well established. And they didn't seem as like pumped about the record, which I'm like, oh, maybe they're just like not happy to talk.

talk to a music journalist. I imagine that gets boring awfully quick. But it turns out that, you know, I really start to feel for bands who are like in this kind of two-year cycle of like, okay, we got to put out an album because we got a tour, because like we don't have job skills, and we got to keep this thing going. We're in a pop punk band and, you know, people lose interest of that stuff pretty quickly. And, you know, it really wore on them. I'm just happy that they're back. I thought they were done after they did the songs from Northern Torrance compilation. But, you know, they're doing covers. They're playing one-minute songs.

They're having fun again. They're making fun of other indie rockers. And, no, I don't think that this is an event album in the way that maybe Cody was or never hung over again is. But I just hope that they get to like their 10th album. And then, you know, Steve and I can discuss in 2038. We can rank Joyce Manor album. Yeah, you know, my thing with their record sometimes is that I feel like the production is a little flat and it does a disservice to the songs because, you know, the main dude, Barry. Yes.

What's his last name? Barry Johnson. Barry Johnson. Thank you. I think he's a really good songwriter. And I know I've interviewed him in the past and I know he's like a big guy to buy voices fan, which is partly why I'm sure his own songs are so short being influenced by them. this record really kind of has like a power pop feel to me and it has like a certain slickness to it

that I think actually yeah Rob Schnaff great producer of you know he's worked with Kurt Weil a lot lately but he's probably best known for working with Elliot Smith and he also produced God of My Voices isolation drills which is like one of their biggest sounding records so maybe I'll call this the isolation drills of Joyce Manor's catalog I think Barry

might appreciate that comparison. But yeah, definitely check them out. If you know, maybe if you're not normally a pop punk person, this record I think would appeal to you. Because again, I think it does have more of like kind of like a power pop type sheen to it. Like Ian said, it goes by nine songs and 17 minutes. Very fun summer listen, I think. We should get to the Indycasties.

We should get to the Indycasties. Because we got a lot of meat in this episode. We got to kind of blow through the. here a little bit. Like all award shows, we run the risk of running long here, so we have to move it quickly. What's our playoff music? If some of these are starting to drag, we just need to start playing the riff from like Turnstiles Mystery or something like that. There you go. That'd be good. Before we get into our categories, let's just talk quick about the year so far. I think there's a general feeling out there, and I certainly feel this way, that this is the strongest music year

already that we've had in a while. Although for the purposes of the Indycastes, it also doesn't have as many train wrecks as recent years. So some of the things that we like to talk about are in less supply. It's an unintended consequence of having a lot of strong records and album cycles that make sense for the most part. Yeah, I think 2020 had a lot of classics, as well. Like, uh, is definitely stronger than 20, 21. But yeah, I mean, as we said on the last

episode, we're all, we're, we are just like content first. And it was a little difficult to come up with like some of our more narrative or trend piece type categories because, yeah, people seem to be having a little more fun, uh, this year than most. But I, I think the immediate question I have is it feels like it's been a strong year. It feels like there's more enthusiasm, uh, more enjoyment, less gawking. but I guess other than big beef, have we come up with like any runaway number one type albums? Like have we like one of the instant classics because you know we got like Norman fucking Rockwell in 19.

We got like fetch the bull cutters, Punisher. You know, I'm thinking damn year before that. Like, you know, what like are we in, are we still in a like really good but not great year for music? Well, I mean, I think the Big Thief record is an instant classic, and there's a lot of people who agree. There's also, you know, people that don't get that band at all. So it's a little hard to read on how widespread their support is. I feel like the wet-leg record has a lot of momentum to it and will end up being on a lot of people's lists.

I mean, I hear about that record still from people, even though, like, you and I were sort of, you know, ho-hum on that album. I think there's a lot of enthusiasm for that. I think the weekend, Dawn FM, in terms of, like, pop records, is a great record. But again, I don't, it's hard for me to read how critics are going to go for that. I do feel like that will probably do well, though, with critics. Beyond that, you know, I think that there is maybe a certain amount of parody this year, where there isn't that one dominant album that happens to be great

and also checks a lot of boxes that are important to critics. Maybe it's just a matter of like the great album's not having like an obvious narrative hook. You know, and that's what maybe diminishes them a little bit in terms of the discourse. Yeah, or maybe there's not out yet. Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Well, let's get into it here because this, what we're talking about here It's addressed in some of our early categories.

Our first category is Most Valuable album cycle, MVAC. And if you remember from last year, we had St. Vincent Daddy's Home. We had Lana Del Rey, you know, sympathizing with the January 6th rioters. You know, we had some heavy hitters last year.

And our nominees this year, they're not entertaining in the same way that those album cycles were. In some cases, I would actually say that these were positive album cycles for these artists. We have Arcade Fire, Harry Stiles, Wet Leg, the 1975, and Kendrick Lamar. Now, out of these, I would actually argue that Arcade Fire had the most improved album cycle with We over everything now, even though We, I don't think is a very good album. I mean, it would be hard to do worse than everything now. I mean, that's like one of the all-time great train wreck album cycles of recent years.

But, you know, they did like the club show. They did these interviews where they were talking about, we're coming back. We found our fire again. That album did do fairly well with critics, not up to the standard of like their 2000s albums, but it was, I think, perceived by most people to be a comeback from everything now. Yeah, I think it's most...

I don't know. It's most improved in that it didn't completely tank enthusiasm for the album prior to when it dropped. But, you know, now that I've actually heard, we actually don't, I actually like dislike this album cycle more than everything now's because I think everything now was the album and the push for it was based on these highfalutin ideas that Arcade Fire as artists were in no way, shape, or form able to pull off. But we, I found to be like just more built on a foundation. of phoniness of like, oh, we're back. We've got, you know, we're reapplying to be the world's biggest band and all, but it's like just as uninspired. But I don't know.

I'm very interested to see how that album plays out for the rest of the year. I have like almost kind of forgotten about it already. But yeah, with some of these other ones, you're right in that like none of these have given us the content that we create. There isn't a daddy's home type. like first ballot hall of famer but i'm going to go with wet leg because it's a different kind of album cycle because lana del ree st vincent arcade fire like we're familiar with their beats they can play on their own history this is the first album in a very very long time where it's like

a debut uh and we got um like i can't think of the last time a non pop star artist gave us so many talking points. Like, are they an industry plant? Like, is there a misogyny going on here with the way people talk about them? It's a UK hype band. Real five-tool player album cycle. It gave us so much to talk about. Yeah, I'm going to go with Wetleg, too.

And, you know, it's funny because there was that conversation, like you said, about is this an industry plant? Just because it seemed like their rise was so quick. And they were getting signed. Didn't they get signed without, like, actually. recording anything or like they'd never like the label had never but they heard like one song and then they got signed it was something like that I did not read any of the 10 articles in major publications that talked about the story of how

they got signed like I pieced together from like fumes on Twitter that they made a demo and then they signed on a ferris wheel like this is all like I'm not just making this shit up right it was very is very rapid and all the headlines for these files were all defensive about the perception that they were an industry plant. I feel like, it's like Wet Leg is a big band. They know it's weird.

You know, it's like headlines like that. Yeah. Which I think fed that a little bit. We were told Wet Leg can't shoot. I will say though that the conversation around them, it reminded me the most of the strokes from 20 years ago. Like when is this it came out.

There was a similar vibe to them coming out of nowhere. and them being called an industry plant because Julian Casablancus' dad runs like a modeling agency. Like that was supposedly, you know, he's like some Machiavillian figure because he's in the modeling industry. I didn't even really understand that at the time. So, I mean, there have been male bands that have been accused of this too. It's not just women, but I understand there is that sensitivity toward taking a condescending attitude towards a female act. So I think that's, so there was

defensiveness about that going on. Again, I think that record is pretty good. I totally understand why it was a buzzy record. Very catchy songs. You know, they're a photogenic band. They're a fun band. There's a sense of humor to what they're doing. They're a very, like,

likable band that I could see why people would want to sign them and I could see why people would get into them. I think it's more similar to Arctic Monkeys in 2006. I think there was, especially in America, a little more like skepticism towards them. But it's really just like kind of fascinating to watch a rock band be like just go up the

ranks that quickly in a way that we just do not see in America. Yeah. Good for them. Yeah, good for them. You know, again, that's not my favorite record of the year. I like the singles. I think there's a lot of filler on that record. But, you know, to see a rock band get that kind of shine is always cool to see.

So congratulations. on your indie castie, wet leg. I'm sure this is the feather in their cap that they've been waiting for. Let's move on to our second category. This is probably my favorite category. We maybe should have saved this for the end. This is like the best picture.

But I don't know, we'll get to it right away. It's the music writer, Twitter story of, I guess, the half year. Our nominees are the broification of Big Thief, which was a conversation that happened online about, I guess, whether too many men

are into big thief. Right? It's sort of like a Bernie... It's kind of like a Bernie Bros thing with Big Thief. There was like this accusation that too many men like Big Thief and they get really defensive

if Big Thief gets criticized. Yeah, or just too many men are writing about Big Thief or... I don't know. Like, that's definitely a frontrunner because, like, I think all music writer Twitter stories of the year have to be judged on.

how many guys they invent, you know, for this whole purpose of this narrative. Well, it's like, or like, you know, like, should men just like men bands? You know, that's always like my... Three out of four members of big fee for guys. Right. I don't know. So, yeah, exactly. They're already pretty broified as they are.

The Connor Ober Skateshoes feud between Kississippi and Better Oblivion Community Center where Mississippi, Philadelphia singer-songwriter made a crack about kind of obers wearing skate shoes and then someone from the Better Oblivion Community Center account said like, fuck you or something? Like, just got really angry about it. Yeah, it's like, it's something about like stop being boring.

And I think, I appreciate you mentioning someone from the Better Oblivion Community Center Twitter account because we've not, we have not cleared this crime We've heard theories about who it is, but cannot confirm nor deny that it was Phoebe Bridgers or Connor Oberst. Yeah, and again, I'm pretty much ruling out Connor Oberst. I do not think he would be on Twitter at all. But we don't know. It's all alleged at this point.

Bandcamp getting bought by Epic Games. Epic Games being this big corporate conglomerate that does computer, you know, video games, like video apps, buying d'y love. Yeah, Minecraft, that's the big one. Or is it Fortnite? I can't fuck. I can't remember one of those. One of those.

Basically, the fear that the band camp, which is this beloved outlet for indie bands to sell their records, it's going to be commercialized or commodified, even though they are already a company themselves. Anyway, that was a big conversation this year.

The last one, this is the heavy hitter. it's going to be hard to top this one. And we were talking about this. You didn't know about this story. Yeah, I feel like this game we play at work called two truths and one lie, where you come up with like two truths about yourself and you throw in a lie and like people have to determine which one's the truth and the lie. Like I don't not not believe this, but I just don't know how this wasn't like a week long thing. I know.

And this is maybe the one struck against the story is that it wasn't. that talked about, I don't think, even though it has all the elements. Eve Barlow, who I think won an Indy Cassie last year. Yeah, she won this exact category last year. And we have to explain that Eve Barlow is a former music writer. She has moved on to a much more complicated and rich career. Yeah, she's Scottish, I believe. Eve Barlow getting kicked out of the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial

because she was texting and tweeting in the front row of the courtroom. Yeah, exactly. But what else can we add? It just gets more amazing as it goes along because anyway, she's like a close friend of Amber Heard's. And it's just amazing that Eve Barlow was able to insert herself into this story.

Again, like a big time story. Just incredible hustle for a music critic. You talk about first ballot Hall of Famers. You know, they might name the Hall of Fame after Eve Barlow by the time she's done. So those are the nominees. Who's your winner out of that? Yeah. And also, let's point out that, like, Eve Barlow won this award last year because she inserted herself into the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Right, exactly. This is someone who has somehow been able to make, like, just phenomenal Andy Kaufman-esque humor out of, like, these just too awful nobody wins situations. Like this is like we're seeing like a legend in their prime. Yeah, the most problematic stories of their time. Yeah, she's like early 90s Tom Hanks right now at the Oscars. Just unbelievable. I mean, does she automatically win this?

Because I feel like it's between her and broification of big thief. Like that's where it is for me. Yeah, I'm going to go with a little bit of like who the hell is Archie or who the hell is Bonnie bear like type type situation here because I'm going to go with Connor Oberst's skate shoes because ooh yeah

I like it maybe it was the fact that it popped up on like first thing Monday morning and then it set the week in motion but I'm going to do this because I think it's just kind of a lifetime achievement award or a half year achievement award because after

Connor Ober's skate shoes Connor Oberst then gave us bright eyes karaoke so it almost spawned a better follow-up. Like he is, you know, UFOF-2 hands type year for Connor Ober so far in a year where he didn't release any new music. So I'm going to, I'm just, maybe I'm just like projecting here like that we're going to get two even better Conorover stories by the time the year is done.

But I'm going to go with quantity as opposed to quality. So that's a, that's a real dark horse pick. I like it. You know, I'm going to go with broification of big thief because I feel like I'm implicated in this. You know, I am one of the bros who wrote about this record and raved about it. Although I don't think I get defensive about people not liking this band. I totally understand why people don't like it. But yeah, since I am personally implicated in this music writer Twitter story, you know, not directly, but by association, I have to go with it.

Because, you know, when you get roasted, you got to own it. So I'll own that one. It's great. But that's a great record. It's also a reminder, too, that, like, Twitter is great for taking something that is pretty wonderful, like a great record, and making you annoyed about the thing you like. It's like, oh, like, oh, Twitter strikes again. It ruined something that I was enjoying just on a totally sincere, guileless level.

So music writer Twitter strikes again. You have to tip your cap to it. It's even better when it ruins something like before you listen to it. Exactly. All right. Well, let's move on to our next category. Ian, do you want to introduce this one? I do.

So we're going to talk about the most memory hold album of 2022. And this is a, like, I love the degree of difficulty with this one because we do this one at the end of the year as well, where an album may have had a chance to have like a longer gestation period of fading. away from view. But to win this one, you got to like drop that out and get forgotten about immediately. So we got the red hot chili peppers, the lumineers, father John Misty. Ooh. Yeah.

Donda, too. I'm like, I had to actually Google to make sure that actually dropped. And there was a Guns and Roses EP in February, apparently. I have like original songs? I think so, yeah. No idea. No idea that happened. Yeah, and it's kind of a gag.

I'm going to throw Kendrick Lamar's album out there because I tweeted like, I cannot believe the Kendrick album, the Kendrick Lamar album dropped two weeks ago on Twitter and like that kind of received like an inordinately good response. So I think that there's some kind of sense that like, I'm not calling it a flop by any means, but like relative.

We're just going to say relatively memorandum. hold album of 2022. Yeah, I mean, if you're comparing it to Pimp a Butterfly or, you know, Good Kid Mad City, yeah, it does feel like people have moved on a little bit, although it does seem like one of those records that maybe people are still digesting, and then in July and August we're going to get a bunch of appreciations of that record. I'm curious to see how that unfolds. The Father John Misty thing is a little painful for me because I love Father John Misty,

And I think that's a really good record, Chloe, in the next 20th century. But just the fact that he's not doing interviews anymore. It is similar to the Kendrick Lamar thing, where if you talk about the records he put out in the 2010s, they just felt like events in a way that this one kind of didn't. I think people who are into him like the record, it was well received. But it just wasn't the kind of media event that his other records were. think that the people who like him will probably still be talking about this album at the end of the year.

Like, I could see it sneaking into lists at the end of the year. I would see this as very similar to, well, Lana Del Rey notoriously did say stuff publicly in 2021. But, you know, there was this sense, and we talked about this on past episodes, how she was kind of entering the, not a wilderness phase,

but definitely, like, after the, upward arc of her career, maybe kind of plateauing. I could see Father John Misty sneaking on the list the same way that Kemp Trails over the country club did last year, like where the fans who were really into it, like push hard for it. Like, it's a great record. And also, it just kind of establishes Father John Misty, perhaps the way he had always seen himself as this like hardworking troubadour type who it's really just about the music. And, yeah, I mean, we, we, this is. is a recurring theme on our show that we feel that you know Josh Tillman has robbed us of content

very selfish yes yes the podcaster part of me is upset with him because he's not giving interviews anymore and he's not making fun of music critics on Twitter and he's not doing all the things that he did five six years ago which is I'm sure much better for him from a mental health standpoint I would imagine that he feels much better not being in that world anymore. But for us selfishly, it's kind of a bummer. Yeah. We could use

that stuff. I mean, to me, the answer to this is Red Hot Chili Peppers' Unlimited Love. I think that that has to be it. But I don't know. Like, you're talking about like how Father John Misty fans, like the people who were into that record, the people who were into Father John Misty are going to like show out for it. I mean, is there like this kind of secret cabal of like chili peppers heads who are going to, I don't even remember. Is it Love Unlimited? I'd like,

really check myself, Steve. It's unlimited love. I looked it up as we were talking. I googled it just to make sure. But, I mean, I don't know. I mean, this was their first record with John Fershante in, you know, what, like 15 years, 16 years. And there was a lot of hype, I think, with this record. I remember when that first single Black Summer came out where Anthony Kedis is singing like a pirate.

That was kind of a moment. That kind of influenced that Phoenix song, don't you think? Maybe so. But I don't know if they put out any other singles, or maybe I just didn't notice it. I don't know. I feel like for as big as that band is, there just wasn't as much attention on it as I would have expected. But, you know, they're going to be playing stadiums. I think that's later this summer.

Great opening acts as well. Yeah. So, you know, they are at the phase in their career, I'm sure, where, you know, this album is bridges to Babylon, you know? I mean, it's just, you know, it's like their late period Stones album where the people who love them, they just want to see them play live. So, which is

fine, you know, they're going to go on the road and make a gazillion dollars. Yeah. I'm looking at the, uh, I'm looking at the tour and it's all baseball stadiums. I mean, in San Diego, they're playing Petco Park with Heim and Thundercat. You know, Timo, like, I'm just going to, like,

Truest Park, Nissan Stadium, Camerica Park, Soldier Field. And you could see him in Philadelphia with strokes and Thundercat at Citizens Bank Park. That'll be good. You know, and I would go see, you know, they're not coming to my neck of the woods. I would go see the chili peppers. I'd go see the chili peppers. It'd be pretty fun night out in the summer.

I don't know. Maybe anyone's listening out there who's connected with the chili peppers. We'll do an indie cast from the parking lot of the chili pepper show. It'll be great. I'm looking at the set list, and it is shockingly heavy on Stadium Arcadium. Oh, okay, well, maybe not then. Maybe I won't stay home if that's the case. Let's move by into our next category. You want to present this one, Ian? So this is the them. I'm trying to like project incredulousness album of the year. So, you know, as big music narrative nerds, we always like to look at the Metacritic scores, the album of the year type scores, to see like what are the highest ranking albums of that year? Like, which one? have gotten the most critical consensus.

And before we get into this category, Steve, do you remember what were the most critically acclaimed albums of 2021? Like the highest metacritic scores, if we're talking about like stuff that had gotten 10 reviews or more? I'm going to guess something like the weather station would probably be up there. I'm trying to remember what else came out last year. Yeah. That seems like a long time ago. Well, the war on drugs record came out. I know that year, of course.

I'd remember that. Yeah, I would guess the weather station would be the number one. All right. So I'm looking at it right now, and most of these in the top ten are, like, British rappers that, like, gets Dave and self-esteem, who's, like, a pop act, and there's, like, a Nick Cave album. As far as, and Biffy Cliro, yeah, if we're talking about, like, top, more than 10 releases, The number one, turnstile, glow on. I did not know that.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. Wolf Alice is up there as well. And yeah, Weather Station probably number three. So, yeah. But, you know, so for this category, turnstile, like that one makes a lot of sense. But this is the one where we see the biggest discrepancy between critical acclaim and what we've heard, seen or felt.

You know, like the workout warrior, the workout warriors, if we're going to use NFL draft terminology. The ones that put up great numbers and we don't see that translate to on-field production. So the ones that we're going to talk about this year thus far,

okay, we've not talked about just mustard, as you could probably tell from the band, they're British, they're kind of post-punk-y. They have the highest metacritic score, I believe, of this year, aside from Rosalia. It's like in the 90s.

It came out a few weeks ago. Kevin Morby is killing it this year. He's up there. I like Kevin Morby. I like Morby more than you do, but I understand why he'd be on this list. But yeah, this is like exceedingly high. Pusha T, Denzel Curry, who's a rapper that, you know, plays all sorts of rock festivals, and Harry Styles. So not a lot of egregious errors, but ones that are just really interesting.

I mean, I would say Harry Styles is egregious. That has an 89, unmetacritic? 83. That's way, 83, okay, way too high. And the dialogue around him, again, I wrote a column about this. I'll just repeat something I wrote in my review that if he looked like Ed Shearin, he'd have the credibility of Ed Shearin. I just think there's such a facade to him of he's this nice guy, he's a very beautiful man. He like wears dresses on stage, which gives him a transgressive, progressive edge to his image.

but his music is completely bland. Totally bland. And when I read rave reviews of his records, or even like the review that Pitchfork did, I think they gave him like a 7.2 after being pretty critical of his previous record, Fine Line. That is correct, 7.2. That our friend Jeremy Larson wrote.

I don't get the critical claim with him at all. I think, again, that if he were not as attractive from an image standpoint, that his music would be taken a lot less seriously. And I think on the musical merits, he should be taken a lot less seriously. I would say that I agree with you on that front. And also, I think there's a degree with this category of albums that really don't have it, whose critical claim hasn't translated into people actually liking it. I think people legitimately, if not necessarily, for the most legit reasons,

like, love this dude. that's true yeah undeniable I believe that people believe what they say about Harry Style right that makes

oh yeah totally totally but for me I'm gonna go like again a little dark horse candidate and say push a tea so this album

it's almost dry it is widely critically acclaimed as most push a tea albums tend to be he's in that run the jewels lane where it's somehow

people don't get tired of him doing the same exact thing album after album after album and it's also an event it's i jokingly call it dad rap not because like it's you know talking about the same stuff the national might but or wilco but it's the sort of rapper that 45 year old dudes can feel okay about liking you know like not necessarily like you know the roots type rap but stuff that's like a little more aggressive but nonetheless you know would fit in at a festival alongside say like my chemical romance I this is a little bit like tinfoil hat here but as far as like why I picked push a tea in this category uh is that you know besides the fact that most people I know who you know are super into rap don't see this is like a you know any way comparing to his best work I think that like push a tea is a way for people to kind of launder their ongoing Kanye standum like in a safer way because I mean the Kanye stander.

still is very strong, although it tends to be a little more like Reddit. Like, Donda got nominated for Grammys, right? It still made a bunch of year-endless. And I think if you're like a true believer in Kanye, you can sort of kind of use push-a-tee's albums, which are largely produced by Kanye as a way to kind of keep your toe in that water. But for me, it's just like watching someone fill out a crossword puzzle. It's like, I mean, like, why am I, feeling so, like, not move by, you know, this guy doing, like, like, Kingpin sort of, like,

Coke dealer rap. And to be fair, like, I kind of thought that about Jayes 444 as well, which is another thing I would call, like, quite literal bad rap. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right in that there probably is a certain segment of rap fans who, like, do, who feel no connection to Zoomer rap or, like, even, like, you know, younger millennial rap, You know, like the more sort of internet-oriented music, like the direction that's taken in like recent years. And like Pusha T, he is this familiar face.

I mean, he's been around like for 20 years, right? I mean, like the first clips record came. Yeah. So, I mean, for the longest time, you didn't have like rappers who still had an audience going into their 40s and 50s. But like now the genre's been around long enough where you do have that. and you're probably right and that it does appeal to that audience that still

wants to buy new rap records or like listen to new rap records but they don't necessarily want to listen to like the stuff that's on the cutting edge because it doesn't communicate with them anymore and that genre moves so fast that I could see how that could be pretty headspinning

if you were like deeply invested in that genre but you get to a certain age where it's just like past you by a little bit so the familiar pleasures of a push-a-tee record, I'm sure would be comforting for that audience. Yeah, I used to review rap records very often. And then, like, I took, like,

six months off, and I was just fucking toast. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like a, I mean, you have to be, I mean, more than any other genre, I think, you have to really be into it at this point to know what's going on. Because it does move so fast.

People move in and out of favor with just like rapid quickness. So, God bless the people that can keep up with that. I'm like way too old at this point to do that. Let's get to our next category. Most fun narrative of 2022. This is a positive one.

We've had a couple taking shots at people categories. So it's nice to have a little positive, you know, good news categories here. Nominees are Turnstile becoming actually big. We've had a lot of turnstile talk already in this episode. But, you know, turnstile, you know, being on the road. really, I think, showed how big that band is. You know, it goes beyond just all the nice reviews that were written of their last record. You could really see that happening this year.

Lots of videos on social media streams, which was cool to see. The Return of Animal Collective. I guess this speaks to our audience. Yes. They were happy to see Animal Collective come back with a good record. Yeah, that's the important part, because they've made a lot of music. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they haven't technically gone away, but like in terms of

you know, coming together like the Avengers under this shield. They hadn't done that in a while. And they made a very fun, poppy, accessible record. The return of indie slees, which was a big narrative this year. I don't know if that's actually manifested itself yet, but it's fun to think that it might actually be a real thing.

And then the number of quality indie double albums and also non-Indy as well. well, there were a lot of big albums this year. And even though I know I took some shots at the 1975 last week for making sprawling albums, I generally like big double albums, especially from bands that haven't done that before. So we had that this year. So for you, like, who's the winner out of these nominees? So you sort of alluded to this.

And I don't know if the return of Indy Slee's is real or just sort of like, I don't know, the vibe shift that we talked about last year, this thing that gets written about in the New York Times. and hasn't really manifested in the real world. But, you know, I'm like, I'm going to say the return of indie slees, if only because I really want that to happen. I think that there's, like most, you know, fun narratives, it's ones that vindicates, like, opinions that I already hold, one of which is that, you know, for all of, like,

the problematic shit that was going on throughout the, particularly the late aughts that the music, there was a lot of fun. There was a lot of, like, just dumb fun to it. And maybe it's the fact that I work in mental health, but like I'm a little tired of like seeing album rollouts that, you know, focus on a person's mental health diagnosis before the genre or just the earnestness that's kind of taken over, which understandably so, given, you know, the world in which we live. But, you know, we need health. We need claxons. Like, we need like the first Dan Deacon album. Actually, yeah.

By the, like, I, I, we're not doing recommendation. corner, but, like, I would highly recommend that you, Steve, and anyone else listening, go find the live performance of the Crystal Cat by Dan Deakin. It's hosted by Pitchfork TV. I think you can find it on YouTube. If you want to remember, like, the late aughts in indie rock in its purest form, just do it. Go for it. So, yeah, I'm hoping that, like, we get some kind of, like real dance punk, not like post punk, but like dance punk,

like the rapture type stuff happening or, you know, the rave rock from the UK of that time, maybe some justice blog house. I'm ready to put on the American Apparel Deep V neck again. I love the second justice record where it looks like there's like

the stone cross on the cover instead of the drawing of the cross. That's like on the first album. It's audio visual. There's one song called Parade on there, which fucking rules. Yeah, like a bunch of songs sound like Def Leppard on that album. It's such a fun record. I love that album a lot.

Yeah, you know, I'm with you. I think for all the positive aspects of acknowledging mental health and being respectful of that and talking about it openly, which I think has been really beneficial for people, there does come a point where you feel like it's been commodified, the conversation around. that. It just becomes like another way to sell a record because that's something that becomes an easy hook for people if they're trying to make a record feel more momentous. And I think we've crossed that line at some point in recent years where it does feel a little, I don't want to say phony, but it's cynical?

Seneca or it feels a little cheapened at some point where it just becomes a, uh, an aspect of the PR campaign. And there is a cookie cutter element to that that I think is, again, cheap in that conversation. I would like to see Indieslease come back. I think that's a fun narrative. I'm going to go with the double albums thing. I've been really happy to see these big statement records come out,

and I think it's part of why I think this is such a great year so far for music. Again, obviously, Big Thief, New Worm Dragon, I Believe in You, is the one that really stands out for me as being a great double album this year. But you also had the Beach House record that came out that once-twice melody that was pretty well received. I feel like people didn't go as crazy about that as other Beach House records. But I get the sense that that record's going to have some legs. I think people are still digging into that one.

Of course, we have the Kendrick Lamar record that came out, which was structured as a double album. Not quite the length of a double album, but still. I appreciate that aspect of it. He's definitely trying to make a grand statement, a melancholy in the infinite sadness, if you will, of his catalog. And then you have the recent Wilco record, Cruel Country, which is maybe a little overlong,

but I think for the most part justifies its length. I think the songs on there are pretty consistently great. And I'm such a fan of being there, the first Wilco double record, so it's fun to see them go back to that and just make a really big record that deals with America and big themes and asking pointed questions about the direction of the country. It's great.

And I hope that we have more of those in the second half of the season. It feels like people are, you know, they were so held back by the pandemic and we're still in the pandemic, but people are getting out in the world more in 2022. And it just feels like people are unleashing the Kraken, musically speaking, this year. And I'm pretty excited about that. Didn't you say that Billy Corrigan was working on like a triple album when you... Yes. Triple rock.

And I think 33 songs, like the rock opera. He always says that though. Yeah. What if that was amazing though? Like what if that was like an amazing record? Like how cool would that be? You know, or even if it feels like pretty good. That would be a pretty amazing thing to happen.

I think if Smashing Pumpkins release a pretty good album, it's going to be like upgraded to fucking. amazing. Yeah, that's true. And we'll do that on this show. We will overrate the hell out of a pretty good Smashing Pumpkins record. You better believe that one.

Okay, I think we have time for one more category. We'll try to squeeze it in here before they play us off with the turnstile riff. Do you want to present this one? Yeah. So this is a category I'm really into because we talk about, like, in the previous categories, about how some albums have longer legs,

you know, long tail type appreciation. This is the 2021 album that you've quote rediscovered. You know, I know that for me, after I make my year-end list, I kind of avoid listening to albums from that year for a while and then I ended up coming back to them. So the ones that would rank higher than it did in 2021 if you re-voted. So we came up with a few. Black Middies out their second album. Porter Robinson, which I don't think is an artist we've talked.

about on here. Lorraine, which I think may have been a recommendation corner, and Wednesday, which was technically 2021, but they've just been in the news so much that I think that they deserve to be in this category as well. So I'm going to go with a record that I totally slept on in 2021. I didn't even rank this album. I don't think I really even heard it until early this year. And it's really become one of my favorite records of 2022, even though it's, you know, it's really become one of my favorite records of 2022, even though it came out last year, and that is

Twin Plagues by the band Wednesday. And this band has been in the conversation recently because they did that viral tweet about South by Southwest, talking about just the expense that it takes for a band to play that festival. And I hope when people saw that tweet, if they weren't familiar with this band, that they actually listened to their music, because

for me, it really is in this great wheelhouse. where you have some country influences to what they're doing. And it's matched with, they've been called like a Shugays band, but it reminds me more of like 90s rock. Like I know, for instance, that they're big fans of Smashing Pumpkins. They actually put out a covers record this year called Mowing the Lees instead of piling them up, which includes a cover of Perfect, one of the singles from Adore, which they do a really good job covering that song.

I'm also a big fan of the band's guitarist. MJ Lenderman who put out a record this year called Both Songs. That's probably a top five record for me. I like it a lot. But Twin Plagues is such a good record. I really feel like this band with their next album, I really hope that they level up because they seem like they're poised to really take a leap. I think there's a lot of people like me who slowly discovered them over time. And we weren't there when the record dropped, but we're excited about this band. And like, there's a lot of people, I think, who are primed

to coronate this band if they can nail the next record. So I'm really hoping for that. But yeah, that would be my winner in this category, Twin Plagues, by Wednesday. How about you, Ian? Yeah, I think Wednesday's definitely got the juice. So whenever they drop, like all the things that you mentioned, the cover

album, the M.J. Lenderman's solo album. Like, they're just beat. They are definitely next. if you're investing in the futures market. For me, a lot of people who I really trust and also don't really listen to a lot of electronic music were super into the Porter Robinson album. Porter Robinson is, I interviewed that guy back in 2014 before he played. I think it was like an anime festival in Los Angeles.

It was either an anime festival or like a video game festival. One of those two types of things. And his music was so of that era of like ultra festival pop that sort of sounded like Passion Pit and M83. You know, not like particularly like deep, but extremely enjoyable. And he kind of like disappeared. He didn't, it didn't strike me as someone who like really enjoyed making albums and touring. Then he came back in 2021 with a record and called Nurt. I loved it immediately because it has a green album cover with him in like a grassy field, very 2016 emo.

And, you know, it's so at a step with anything happening either like culturally, sonically, politically, that it seemed like, it's like one of those records where it's like, yeah, we're going to need like seven more years for us to revisit the sound. And I think that's what made it so poignant to me. It's someone just saying like the first single was called, I'll look at the sky where the chorus is about like, hey, I'm still here. Almost like the everlasting gaze by the smashing pumpkin, which did not make your list. Yes, I know. Many people were shaking their fists at me over that one.

The fickle fascination of an everlasting God. But yeah, so I put on this record because it's just a great escape for me. It's like when I don't want to be reminded of the narrative, when I don't want to be reminded of like the things that I find to be so tiresome of modern music. I put on nurture and it's transportive for 50 minutes. And I imagine that like if you're from that world, you know, I don't think you can, you would have like the Glass Beach or the Delete Seek album that I love so much the past couple years without that guy.

Yeah, I think that if any of those names that I had mentioned to you still ring bells, Porter Robinson, like that's an announcement. I feel like I'm, I don't think he's going to release another one probably for 10 years. So I'm going to be going back to that one a lot. Well, I haven't heard this record yet, but the way you're describing it is really make me want to put it on. So I'll probably cue that one up at the end of this episode, which is where we're at right now. So, Ian, have a fun trip. Hopefully, we haven't missed anything during your vacation here.

And this episode will be well received by our audience. and they won't be missing us talking about whatever discourse happens the week that you're gone. And if not, I'll just record it on my iPhone. It'll be like Our Machina too. Oh, absolutely. And we'll give it away for free, like every other episode. Thank you all for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends in real time next week.

And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.