Indiecast - The 2023 Indiecasties (Part 2)

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

Last week, Steven and Ian kicked off part one of their most sacred annual tradition, the Indiecasties. This week, they bring home part two. (This is a banked episode so if any major indie-rock news occurred this week, the guys won't be talking about it.)Part one had many incredible categories. But Steven and Ian saved the really good stuff for this week. Categories include Biggest Disappointment (3:12), The Album We're Most Surprised We Liked (11:05), The Most Egregiously Overrated Album On Year-End Lists (18:20), The Comeback Of The Year (25:17), The Year's Most Enjoyable Trend To Hash Out (30:51), and (Steven's personal favorite) The Most Memory-Holed Album Of 2023 (40:38). Who won? We can't wait to share the news!New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 169 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we resume our annual Indiecastes for 2023. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He thinks it's hilarious to wear ugly sweaters to Christmas parties. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you?

Yeah, you know, you talked about how, uh, by 2024 we might be over the Wednesday extended universe. We're just going to get like whatever the blonde shell is of like, you know, kind of dirty southern storytelling or what have you. And hasn't our society like kind of progressed beyond the need to like wear ugly sweaters every week or like for a month or like every Friday or whatever it is that your workplace does? It just feels like oppressive to me in a way that Christmas never did even as like a Jewish kid. growing up. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about the ugly sweater phenomenon on this show.

We had an episode of Ugly Sweeter cast, I think, at one point. Because, like, in your office, isn't there like an ugly sweater day? There's a holiday one, but here's the deal. Like, last night I got my American football Christmas sweater, which is indeed a real thing. And I am going to wear that every single Friday until I retire. So I think it was, maybe it's just a match. of like me finding one that like suits my personality and isn't framed more towards like making like you know bad puns about like rap or whatever so uh there there's hope for us all and we should

be clear that when you say last night you mean last week because we we banked this episode uh you know I'm on vacation right now as you're listening to this so we banked this last week if we missed any big indie news, apologies. Hopefully there wasn't an emergency in the indie rock community. I'm just trying to think of like, what would force me to, you know, stop my vacation and record an emergency indie cast with you. New Gwantlet, Gwantlet Hair Surprise album. A lot of me to have a wish list here.

Yaysayer reunion tour. Yeah, who knows. But anyway, this is the banked episode. We're resuming our Indycaste's ceremony. We did a bunch of categories last week. We're diving back into it this week. So hopefully you're, you know, maybe you're driving to your parents' house right now

for the holiday weekend, or you're curled up on a bearskin rug in front of the fire with a cup of cocoa and a loved one snuggling you while you're listening to the show. Wherever the case may be, I hope you're having a good holiday season. Should we just dive into the Indycasties? Fuck it, let's roll.

Okay, so our first category is biggest disappointment of 2023. And the nominees are the National, you know, hate to say it. They were the first band I wrote in this category. Jenny Lewis, and of course we're talking about the albums that these artists put out this. year. The National put out two albums that were a little uneven, to say the least. And Jenny Lewis,

her album's called Joy, Y'all, I believe. And I love Jenny Lewis. I loved her last record on the line from 2019. This record I thought was maybe not up to the standard of that record. I put every big-ticket rap record. I feel like the big, heavy, hitters, whether it's Drake or Travis Scott or Post Malone. Is he still making rap music or is he doing country music now? I feel like he's maybe doing the Kid Rock thing at this point. Or the Noah Kahan thing. I don't know who Noah.

I haven't listened to Noah Kahan's music yet. But yeah, like Post Malone is like rap in the same way that like, I guess Drake would be rap in that. Like it's of that universe, even if it isn't like actually. bars and hooks and like beats. But it just feels like the blockbuster, would-be blockbuster rap records really under-delivered this year. Slow dive, you put that one. Seguer Rose, did I say that right?

Sigur-Ross. That's how I've been doing. Sigur-Ross. An Animal Collective. You put Animal Collective on that. I did. So those are our nominees. Who is your winner of the disappointments?

It's kind of weird to say there's a winner in this category. but who was your biggest disappointment out of those nominees? Yeah, so I mean, like, Sigur Ross Animal Collective and the National to me, like all are of a piece of, you know, like, four artists I've, like, loved for as long as I've been writing about music. And I feel as if there's always, they're always on the verge of, like, getting back to, like, what they do best, but they just kind of give paler versions of, uh, you know, the stuff I loved in 2005.

And it always drives me a little bit nuts because, like, you see. these albums being praised and I'm like, am I missing something? Like, I'm supposed to love this stuff more than the average person, but I don't know, maybe it's a symptom of caring too much. If there's, if there's anything you can accuse this out here on any cast, it's caring too much. But the one I want to go with, and I'm like really glad you put this on there, which is every big ticket rap record. Now, so I know like Sexy Red and V's, like there were a lot of like regional albums that kind of stuck on your end lists from hip hop and, you know, like, You can put like Billy Woods and Kenny Siegel maps, but I mean, I don't know if we had a single episode that centered around a, you know, like a Kendrick level or like a Drake level or, I mean.

We talked about Travis Scott in an episode. I mean, so that would be the closest. But yeah. But I feel like that record really came and went. And it's so bizarre to see, you know, think pieces in places like Slater, the New York. Times talking about whether hip hop is like lost ground to country music because like Morgan Wallen was putting up like hip hop type numbers on the charts and I mean look we are 240 something guys who primarily talk about indie rock but there's got to be like one or two

hip hop albums like you know prime Kanye prime Drake like we're there's it's going to be in the top 10 regardless and um you know we got to be able to like have an opinion about it but this just kind of made me it it just didn't feel like it was a just us sort of thing in 2023 yeah i mean i feel like every year you need like that one big rap record that like everyone can get behind or at least where it's fun to talk about and to not have that after it's been a fixture of really like most of our lives as music critics i feel like there's always that album you feel like oh there's always going to be a Kanye album in the mix. There's always going to be a Kendrick album in the mix.

You know, for going back to the 2000s, you know, you got Outcast, you got Jay-Z. Even like a Cardi B album. Like, that hasn't happened either. Yeah, so it was a little strange. It felt like a little like there was a void this year with that. So, yeah, I think that's a good pick. I have to go with the National.

They were the first band I wrote down for this category. And I have conflicted feelings about calling this my biggest disappointment because on my year end list, I actually put my compilation of the two albums, my favorite songs from both records, which I think is actually a really good record. I like the 12 song album I made out of the 23 or so songs that are on first two pages of Frankenstein and laugh track. But, you know, I saw the national on tour last year, and they were playing some of these songs live.

and hearing these songs live it got me really excited for what they were going to be doing next. It had that energy that I think a lot of old school national fans are still waiting for them to come back where it just sounds like them as a band and there's an aggression to it

and it's not just like a mid-tempo ballad type song and then they put out these records and like there's tons of guest stars on the albums and it feels like the sequencing wasn't very good and there's just no sense of momentum on those albums and I just feel like

what's disappointing about those records isn't that they're bad it's that I think that there was a great album in there that they weren't able to pull out and I think I did it with my compilation I know like lots of other national fans have done the same thing that I did where they picked their favorite songs

but you know we're still in this holding pattern and again, it's probably older national fans, not their new fans that they have now, because, I mean, they do have like a big young fan base. This idea that they're just for dads has really changed since the Taylor Swift connection. Yeah, and the Phoebe Bridgers connection. Right.

That's really transformed their following, and there is a segment of their audience who feels like, okay, it begins with Sleepwell Beast, this band's catalog. And, like, everything else is like a preamble to that. Whereas maybe older people are like, well, I stopped listening at Sleep Well Beast. It's a very fascinating split, I think, in that band's fan base. But yeah, I don't know.

The disappointment in me is that it could have been a great record, and said we got two kind of just OK records. Yeah, the national to me is more just kind of like a franchise than a band at this point. Like I can envision them putting out records for like every two years with, you know, like guest stars or whatever and like Matt Berninger continuing to play like the role of Matt Berninger. I'll probably still listen to it. Like they're like maybe I'll review an album. Like maybe that would be like the one or two reviews I write in like 2025. But I don't know how disappointed I am in that because like slow dive, Siguross, like they took more time to make a record.

And yeah, this is the national. It's like my expectations weren't super high, so maybe that's why I'm not disappointed. As the legends once said, if you don't expect too much for me, you might not be let down. Let's get to our next category, and this is Album, Your Most Surprised You Likeed. And as the category title suggests, these are records that, you know, you go into a record and you have expectations and maybe their expectations aren't very high for whatever reason. maybe you've read about the record and it sounds like something you wouldn't like or maybe it's an artist that you've maybe given up on a little bit and then they come around and they make a record that gets you back on board.

So these are the nominees that we have in this category. 100 gecks. We've already talked about them in the Indycastes. I feel like for both of us maybe, like this was a group that we were a little maybe unsure about when they first emerged, but the record they put out this year, 10,000 gex. It's just such a likable. record. Really won, I think, anyone who was inclined to look at them as like a novelty act or just something that was being

built up by the music media because of, you know, they signified a youth culture that a lot of music writers don't fully understand, but they want to be on board with. I think that skepticism was put to bed officially this year by that record. So that's why that's here. The Rolling Stones, and this is just me putting this here, I didn't I mean I was going to care about this record no matter what because I love the Stones but I didn't expect to genuinely love a lot of the songs on that record

and it really has grown on me over the years so I put it up in this category Mitzky I put in this category I was a vocal critic of her previous record Laurel Hell I kind of felt like maybe she was starting to go down a path that would lose me I wouldn't really be into her records anymore and then she puts out the land is inoscentia

in hospitable and so are we and it's one of my favorite albums of the year totally won me over it goes up with puberty too and uh bury me at makeout creek as one of my favorite albums she's ever made uh anani and the johnsons you put that record that's a beautiful kind of soul record uh really good uh model actress uh this is a really good band they were they're a really good band that has been written about in a way that doesn't always do them justice i feel like the The music that they make sometimes is given a backseat to maybe more of the identity things that get written about this band. That like, as we've talked about already in the Indycasties, some of that conversation, it feels very tired. But this is just like a good rock band.

So yeah, I'm on board with that nominee. And then bully. This was one of your nominees, and I totally agree with it, a band that I've always kind of liked. But I feel like they were starting to make the same. record over and over, and I was becoming less interested in that record. And then the album they put out this year, really good record. One of the best records I think that they've made. So six strong nominees here, which is your winner for the album you didn't expect to love as much as you did? So I think this kind of comes down to whether I didn't, I'm surprised I like this album based on

what I had heard before or whether I'm surprised that I still like it despite what I heard after the fact. And I think I got to choose model actress here because, you know, I came into this with no real expectations. I was told they kind of do like a dance punk sort of early liars or maybe even lassovy fave sort of thing. And I'm like, yeah, this record bangs. It reminds me of like these new Puritans and like all these like kind of abrasive acts from the 2010s that got like way more critical acclaimed than I think they would now and then every single thing that I read about them going forward just like erode it try try to erode that love because it was like hey this is indie sleaze and you know New York is back and dime square and um it's funny like when I interviewed them

They were one of the many, many, many, many indie acts of 2023 that will, like, so rather talk about basketball than anything about, like, New York's art scene or, like, their influences and just nobody lets them cook. They're kind of their Sixers fans, which I think is funny because, like, none of them identify with New York at all. They were like, yeah, that's someone made that shit up. And so, yeah, I think this, like, when I revisit this record, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is actually really good. Because when I don't listen to it and I think about all the things that have been said about them, I'm like, oh, my God, this is the most annoying shit you could possibly come up with. And it actually turns out to be quite good. So, yeah, Anna of the Johnsons, I liked their stuff before.

I think the, again, we talked about this on the episode where we covered the record where people talk, it's like, oh, it's a call for climate change, which, you know, it is, but it's like, it's also like a record that can be enjoyed, you know, without that framework. So, yeah, basically, we ruin everything, bad scene, everyone's fault. Yeah, I mean, it's just an example of, like, critics putting too much emphasis on lyrics and themes and not enough on music. And like how a lot of, look, I write about lyrics and themes. I think it's important. I think it's interesting to talk about. But at the end of the day, where the rubber meets the road is like, does this rock, is it beautiful, you know, does it move you sonically in some way? And I think sometimes by just focusing so much on narrative concerns, you can miss the

forest for the trees and just being like, no, it's like fucking rocks. That's why it's on, that's why we're giving it a good review. Like it vibes hard. And that's what matters the most. I think these are all like really good nominees. I could pick any one of these because I think I would have had maybe some skepticism going into every record and I ended up liking all of them. I'm going to go with 100 gecks just because this is the record I ended up liking the most.

Well, 100 geeks and Mitzki both. But like I have more of a history with Mitzki. It's really just because of like one record that I didn't like. And I thought, well, maybe she's starting to fall off now. that's why I was surprised that she got me back as much as she did with this record whereas with 100 gex I wasn't really on their wavelength at all until this album and even like when the album came out it wasn't like an instant love affair with the record I had to spend a little time with it and then finally it just completely bold me over and I'm like why am I

resisting this this is just like so fun and so good so yeah 100 gex for me definitely But yeah, I mean, all of these records, I could say, I mean, Bulley is another strong nominee for me where they seem to be slipping into that zone, like, where they went from a band that I like to a band that, like, okay, maybe I'm not going to even pay attention to their latest record because I know I'm not going to be into it. And then you hear it, it's like, oh, no, this is like a really good record. And now I'm really excited to hear what she does next. So let's get to our next category. This is most egregiously overrated album on Year Endless. This is self-explanatory. You know, we've been looking at year-end list.

You see a lot of the same records place very high. And, you know, it feels like maybe these records don't deserve as much praise as they've been getting during year-end list season. So you want to announce these nominees? Yeah, so we have Lil Yadi, which I think they were like in the running for quite a few categories. But this is probably the one where they feel most at home. Zach Bryan, Paramore, Olivia Rodriguez,

and JPEG Mafia and Danny Brown Scaring the Hose. Yeah. So, a lot of good nominees here. Olivia Rodriguez, we talked about this album on the show.

I think if this, if we're talking about singles lists, I think she absolutely deserves to be on there, get them back as a song that I enjoyed hearing and it was an earworm

is in my head when that song was everywhere this summer. I think the album on the whole is a bit of a mixed bag. Again, I'm not as into the ballad side of what she does. I wish that the, you know, young rocker chick thing

that she's forwarding in a lot of, like, her iconography and like the things that people celebrate her for, that 90s throwback thing, that's what I like the most. And when she gets into her driver's license mode. I'm not as into it.

So I feel like people love the singles from that record, and I feel like maybe the album's been a little overrated. But I'm actually going to go with Zach Bryan in this category, and maybe it's frustration on my part that this is the record that critics I've really gone in on. And it feels like a makeup call from the previous album, American Heartbreak, being like a little under-recognized. on year-end list because I still feel like that record as sprawling as it is.

I mean, again, I mean, that's like a two-and-a-half-hour record or something. You know, I still feel like that's a better record, and it's more of the aesthetic that I like from Zach Bryan, where the sort of like Heartland Rock aspect of his music, it's more pronounced on that record. Like the self-titled album he put out this year, there's some good songs on it, But I do feel like in the middle, there is like a lot of songs that sound the same.

It's a lot of mid-tempo type strummy, sad-sac ballads. And I tend to get a little bored with that part of the record. I'm more into the like country music meets bright eyes aspect of what he does. And when he's on that tip, I'm fully on board with him. But yeah, I just feel like this album on the whole, I feel like people are praising it because they were maybe a little late to get on the American Heartbreak bandwagon. So that's what it feels like to me. So that's why I'm going to put it.

That's why it wins the most egregiously overrated on year-unless award for me. How about you? Like, who's your winning nominee here? So I think this category speaks to the difference between publication year-end lists and individual year-end list. Because if you're doing like an individual one, it's just like, hey, what was my favorite album? And you wouldn't need to like necessarily overrate something just to make sure that it spoke to like what the year did. Because yeah, like Olivia Rodriguez. And I also put like Boy Genius in this category as well as like albums that like absolutely own 2023.

But when you like regard the album itself, it's like there's some filler on there. And these are like 10 or 11 song albums. It's like these albums are putting up like hot fuss type success rates. But you can't necessarily, like, have a year-end list without including them. So, um, I, little yachty. It's like, I feel like that album is like appropriately rated by certain publications because, like, a complex magazine, for example, like, this was like Taylor made for people who only listened to, like, you know, hip hop and like Tame and Paula, which is like a very real demographic. So I don't think it's a good album, but like, I kind of get. why people like it in the same way that like I get why people like you know because the internet

paramour and I also kind of get that one because it's they've been just like on a 10 year makeup call for I guess critics not going in on ride even though they're like a super popular act and I appreciate the fact that they're taking like block party and foals on tour even though neither of those bands are like good anymore and I think people are kind of tempering expectations but for me it's JPEG Mafia and Danny Brown which is like this I get I get it like the

what's it called the rate your music or indie heads demographic like just like loves this shit it's like sort of like run the jewels for people who aren't necessarily dads yet and I think that this is just like an egregiously overrated out

like for one thing like I understand the aesthetic but it's it like sounds like complete shit. And as a rapper, I want to hear the lyrics. JPEG Mafia is someone who I've struggled with a lot. And like, maybe I would like him a lot more if I were like 15 years younger. And I don't, like, I really, because like it's like a brace of music. And I think they kind of gave up the game with calling this album, scaring the hose.

It just showed this like level of self-awareness that I see now in a lot. like all the Christmas movies that you see now are meta like where it's like about it's like Christmas movies about Christmas movie like tropes and like once that happens it's like be impossible to enjoy it so I do think that like JPEG Mafia and Danny Brown could put out better records individually kind of like run the jewels but this is just

it seemed to me like an album they wanted to make just to make an album called Scarein the Hose like that just seemed to be the end point So like if run the jewels That that's like rap for dads Is JPEG Mafia Danny Brown? Is that like cool uncle music then? Like you don't have

You don't have kids of your own But you're going over to like your Your siblings house and playing with their kids Yeah And they're like oh yeah this guy's cool He's cooler than my dad But he's still not He's still not that cool

But he's cooler than my dad Or like you know The dad rap and like their 13 year old son You know That's what they're listening to Right Okay Well let's get to

Our next category. This is the comeback of the year. Again, self-explanatory. A feel-good category. You know, we do some dunking on the Indy Cassies, but we like to have some feel-good categories as well. We like to mix it up here. And these are our nominees for the comeback of the year.

You have the clientele made one of Ian Cohen's favorite albums of the year. Blonde Redhead. Andre 3000, of course, the flute album. getting a lot of hype. Peter Gabriel, he made my year end list. 21 years, working hard. Finally put out a record

in many different formats. Blu-ray CD, many different mixes. Good to see Peter Gabriel back. Scrillix. Scrooics put out two albums this year. Maybe he should be in memory hold album. I don't know, but feels like we should have recognized him in this category.

So Scrillix gets a nomination. and Youth Lagoon back making a very critically acclaimed record this year. So who is your winner out of those nominees for comeback of the year? Yeah, you know, with Youth Lagoon, the clientele, blonde redhead, they all, like kind of this corollary to bully where, like, a bully was like, okay, like they exist. I'll prod of this in their record, but I don't have high expectations. all three of these artists made islands that made my year on list the clientele made really got really high up there i think it was like my number three and um you know these were like really it's just

like really encouraging to see the artists can like actually become inspired like after taking some time off and falling from the narrative but i can't really put them as comeback of the year because there wasn't it was just like they made a great record uh and nothing larger than that I think the Skrillx comeback was a little bit overstated. I think people, like, didn't really have their hearts in it. But, yeah, I'm going to go with Andre 3,000 as the comeback of the year because... Oh, wow.

Yeah, I mean, just in the sense of, like, him following through on a flute album. Like, this is the sort of thing you would probably hear about for a very long time. And, like, oh, I'm here. and he'll like never actually put it out let alone put it out i think came out like on a major label right yeah um and i we talked about this on a previous episode how you're kind of reviewing andre three thousand and not like his skills as like a flutist or an arranger but um this to me struck it's it's it just brought so it was like so much it was about so much more than the actual album. It was about people, it's almost like a flip side to the, you know, Bethany Cozantino thing where it's like,

yeah, you can really put your heart and soul into making an 87 minute flute album. And, you know, if people, if it resonates with people, then, you know what, the music's going to carry the day. And so, yeah, I think that Andre 3000, like the fact that he made, he actually fucking did it is more than enough. It's more than enough to deserve the win here. Well, yeah, and I think you're right when you say that when people reviewed that record, they were reviewing Andre 3000 and they were reviewing him following his heart and, like, how admirable and easy to like that is. And just like how easy to like Andre 3000 is in general.

I mean, the interview that he gave where he talked about, you know, being a 48-year-old man and not feeling like he has anything. to say as a rapper, you know, like, he's like, am I going to rap about having a colonoscopy? You know? He's going to make sunk hell moon songs. Right. Like, very funny, very self-effacing. It seems like he is so level-headed and down to earth.

And he's as normal as he could possibly be, being a person living Andre 3000's life. Like, it just seems like he's in a great place. So even if you're like, I don't know if I want a flute album from Andre 3000, No one's going to begrudge him that. It's just like, oh, it's so cool. He's doing what he likes. You know, he's following his bliss, and I hate that I just said that.

But you know what I mean. Good for him. I'm going to go with Peter Gabriel for comeback of the year because I think he did something similar to Andre 3000 and that he worked on a record for like 21 years and was also living his life

while doing that. And I just happen to think that it's a better record. You know, I think the record turned out really well. I saw Peter Gabriel this year, and it was like one of my favorite concerts of the year. I mean, just his voice is like so well preserved and it just sounds amazing. So, yeah, I just think that to spend that much time on a record and to have it come out and have it not be terrible, that by itself is an achievement, but I think the record is actually quite good. So, yep, that's my comeback of the year.

But like all these people, it was nice to have them back. They all did something cool this year. So we tip our cap to all the comebacks in 2023. All right, let's get to the pen ultimate category of the indie castes. We're getting to the end of the show here. This is like we're at the three and a half hour mark of the Oscars. For us, it's like we're at the hour and a half mark of the Indycastes. this is most enjoyable trend to hash out this year.

Now, we all know, that's what we do on the show. We hash out trends. And there were so many trends that we hash out this year. Some trends, you don't want to hash out because it just makes you depressed. But then there's other trends that are just a joy to hash out. You wish you could hash it out every week. Unfortunately, you can't because new trends come in that need to be hashed. But these are the trends that we want to revisit.

it in our indie cast season and maybe hash them out one more time. So most enjoyable trend to hash out in 2023, fake indie slees as our first nominee. We've talked about that. We talked about that with the dare in last week's episode.

Just this totally drummed up phony baloney trend that became a trend because people talked about it. But just people wanting New York to be relevant again in indie music. So they made this thing up. Very fun to talk about. Our next nominee is The Sphere.

Talking about the Sphere, the multi-billion dollar, what do you even call this thing? Music venue in Las Vegas. I went to the Sphere in September to see you two. It's just a ridiculous thing. And it was very fun to talk about. Patio music is our next nominee. Of course, I talked a lot about patio music this year hanging out on my patio this summer, live in the patio music lifestyle.

It puts a smile on my face, even just thinking about it, even though it's wintertime right now and it's too cold to be on the patio. The Pine Grove Shuffle. Do you remember the Pine Grove Shuffle? TikTok trend? Yeah. Very weird, but very fun to talk about. Pine Grove Shuffle.

The cure charging low ticket prices. We could have put the cure in the comeback of the year, too. I mean, they didn't put out a record this year, but there was so much goodwill towards the cure. We both saw The Cure this year in concert. They were fantastic. And, you know, they're charging like $25 bucks for tickets. Oh, 25 bucks for T-shirts.

$25 for T-shirts. But the tickets were very, yeah, for an arena rock band. Just so much goodwill right now for Robert Smith. That was a very fun trend to hash out. My changing feelings about college football. that got nominated in this category. That was a fun trend to hash out. That's more of like an indie cast trend,

not like a wider trend, but still, you know, I was ripping on college football earlier in the year and then I came around to it. I came around to your way of thinking to quote urge overkill. So that was great. And then the last

enjoyable trend of the year, the Idol, the weekend show. Very fun to talk about that show. I don't think I think I watched more than one episode. Did you watch the whole? I watched one. I actually did not. Yeah, I watched one episode. I'm like, I got it. I'm good. So, man, all those trends were very enjoyable. What was your most enjoyable trend to hash out this year? Before we go any further, can you remind me whether we call it the sphere or just sphere? Oh, it's actually just sphere. Okay. But in my column, I called it the sphere.

because I'm like I'm sorry John Dolan I'm breaking your rule it's like how the Eagles are actually Eagles Huh They're not the Yeah they're not the Eagles They're Eagles But everyone calls them the Eagles

Because it just sounds awkward to say Eagles With no the So anyway But yeah there's technically no the in sphere It's just sphere Right or is it's like smashing pumpkins Where I kind of forget Like it kind of varies

I think they kind of switch it up. But I wanted to say fake indie slees. Like that is probably like number two because I just love any sort of trend that emerges that allows us to remember some guys. You know, like whenever there's like a new artist that sounds like Snow Patrol or just like that era of, you know, of Gray's Anatomy Corps. I love that. Anything that brings up chill wave, anything that brings up like, you know, like whatever was happening with Indycies like Fisher Spooner.

Like that was cool, but it was also kind of annoying to deal with because people took it seriously. My favorite trend to hash out was absolutely had to be sphere because it's just so patently ridiculous and there's no real path. There's no real path forward for this to be anything other than ridiculous. And I always love the possibility of something this grand and expensive failing because it's not my money at all. sort of like crypto to me in that like yeah it's a bummer like crypto was a bummer because like some like legit people like some like normal people like lost their life savings or whatever and i can like and there's like you know more things that are like political valence to it but like this fear is just like it's big it's dumb it's expensive it's like completely fucking useless and um i love

the fact that you actually got to go see you too there well and look and and Fish is playing Sphere in April. And by the time this episode posts, I will know whether I'm going to those shows. Like Rob Mitcham and I, my friend, we tried to do the lottery for Fish at Sphere and we didn't get tickets. But then the public on sale is tomorrow as we're recording and last Friday win this post. So there's a chance I'm going to Sphere again. I might be seeing every band that's ever played. sphere. Like a sphere shuts down

after Fish plays there, which they really should. I mean, Fish should close that place out. It might even make it to Fish. It might even make it to fish. That is a real possibility, too. It would be amazing if, like, you two opened it and Fish closed it. That would be, that would make, that would make Sphere the greatest music venue of all time. There would be nothing close to it.

Except for Ket 285. It's Kent 285, number one, sphere 2. Well, okay, so that points to what I'm going to say wins this category. I was actually going to say Sphere, but since you said Sphere, I'm going to say fake indie slees is my favorite trend to hash out. And because it had many elements that you and I are attracted to when we talk about indie music. But one thing that we both love is to make fun of self-obsessed New Yorkers. And this story just has, it's like the greatest example of that that we've had in a long time.

just people who feel like what's happening within like a three-block radius of their house still matters to the rest of the world. And it absolutely doesn't. And the fake Indies-Slee's thing, it was just impossible to deny that this was like an irrelevant concept to most people and that it doesn't even exist. It's such a fraudulent example. It's an example of like fraudulent media. to invent a trend that will make them feel good about paying exorbitant rent prices living in New York City. You know, that's all it is because they don't want to move back to Pittsburgh or, you know, Knoxville, Tennessee or wherever it is that they're from. They don't want to move back there.

They want to justify living in New York so they will pretend that the dare is important and that Indieslease is actually a thing. and it's just a fun thing for people like us to talk about. I mean, the fact is, like, yeah, a lot of important stuff does happen in New York, because that's, like, where most of the people are. But I think that this, like, you just know, like, people wanted an excuse to kind of pivot away from, like, a lot of the propriety that had been occurring over the past couple of years and after COVID, it made, like, it made so much sense. and I would have loved for Indies Lees to actually produce some, like, good music.

Because, yeah, I think that is what we needed, but they just kind of, they kind of, like, they could have waited, you know? It's like the dare could have been like the, you know, the firing gun and maybe some bands would follow through on that. But, yeah, there was a lot going on with, like, hey, New York's back with, like, hotline T&T and water from your eyes. there was like a low-key kind of very real 2009 CMJ core revival. But yeah, Indies wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, it'd be cool if there were great records to come out of that or like really, really bad records. I don't know which one I'd want more.

Really bad but popular records though. Yeah, yeah, because the dare, you know, it just was unexceptional. It's like the worst of all worlds, you know. Yeah, it wasn't so bad that it was fun. And it wasn't good, obviously. But it just, I wish it was worse. You know, I wish it was like, I wish it was like a little bit worse or like way better, you know. But it's just somewhere in that sort of mid mediocre range.

All right, here we are. Last category of the 2023 indie casties. This is always one of my favorite categories. This actually, this is my favorite category. That's why I put it last. Most memory hold album of 205. 23. Do you want to read our nominees? Yeah. So this, I'm like looking at this and this like might as well be the Grammy's best rock album nominees. We have Metallica, Foo Fighters, Queens of the Stone Age,

M83. I'm going to include the armed in here because we need some indie adjacent album. Travis Scott and Gorillas. I'm, I was like tempted to throw things like, I don't know, red hot chili peppers and Green Day in there just to like see if you believe that they actually put out records in 2023. Did the chili peppers put on a record? I know they put out they put out two last year, right? Yes, they did. I still see, I still see very randomly some of those videos playing at like 24-hour fitness.

Like they're still making videos. Okay, I'm going to challenge you. Can you remember the name of these two albums? No, I can't. Unlimited Love, Return of the Dream Canteen. I do see the video for the drummer on, and this was a 75-minute album. Wow. Yeah, I mean, you could have said anything there.

So you could have said, you know, blood sugar, sex magic too. Yeah, exactly. Like the return of Sir Psycho-Sexe, you know, I would have bought it. So I'm going to, you know, I actually thought about putting. m83 on this list but i personally have gone back to that album i actually like this one very recently and there's some songs on there i really like a lot so i and look and we're not necessarily we're not saying necessarily that these albums are bad just that like they're albums that you would have thought had an impact and it it's hard to remember that they even came out this year like that's the

memory hold concept and i have to go with the foo fighters album um because this is an album that was well reviewed when it came out. You and I both wrote about it. You wrote about it for Pitchfork. I wrote about it for Up Rocks. We both liked it. I do think it's like their best record since the late 90s. I mean, that's not the biggest praise in the world.

But I mean, I think it is like a quite good foo fighters record. And they are obviously still a very popular rock band. But, you know, I was looking at Rolling Stones album, like the Rolling Stone Best Albums of the Year list they did like a hundred albums They didn't put the Foo Fighters on there Like Rolling Stone

Didn't put the Foo Fighters on there There's something funny going on there I don't I don't know I think there's like some There's got to be some kind of feud There because We live in a world Where Rolling Stone

Won't put a new Foo Fighters album On a best albums list That's like a hundred albums long Yeah you should see what is on there. Like, you have, like, a, you have, like,

for all my, for all my, you have the Drake album on there. You have, yeah, yeah, there's like some weird things on that list. And I,

I just feel like, I know you're trying to be more contemporary, but like, Rolling Stone, come on, like, you can't totally abandon

your roots. They had that, they had that article, right? About, yeah. Yeah, I think there's some weirdness

lingering from that. I mean, they put the Metallica record on that list, and they put, the Rolling Stones record on the list. So it's not like they've completely abandoned. Number 65, man.

Like, yeah. Well, I put it at 17 on my list. I'll go to war for Hackney Diamonds, man. I don't give a shit. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think the Food Fighters record is at least better than the Metallica record. I mean, I don't know.

I think if I made a top 100 list, I would have put the Food Fighters on my personal list, personally. but yeah it's very strange I don't know because like Queens of the Stone Age I mean yeah like that kind of came and went the armed

I mean that was getting a lot of hype but it's not like they're a huge band the Travis Scott thing I think that's a that might be my number two here but I don't know if Fu Fighters it's just striking because I feel like that got a lot of press

when it came out and then just completely like evaporated they might as well not even put on a record at this point. So yeah, that's why that's my most memory hold album of 2023. Yeah, I mean, M83 is a record that I've actually returned to quite a bit. And I don't know what my expectations were for it. I feel like they've kind of gone into like millennial legacy mode.

The armed I put on there because, I mean, throughout 2021, there was so much conversation about their whole deal. And then they made a record where it's like, hey, there is no deal behind it and just kind of faded from memory. Gorillas is always an album that will show up on this list. I'm like, did they put out now in this year? Like, I guess. But, and like, Metallica is just a stadium act.

Like, they're not looking to do Ride the Lightning or anything like that. But I kind of have to go with Food Fighters as well because, like, I think it's hard to, I think it's easy to forget how critically acclaimed this really was when it first came out. Rolling Stone aside, which by the way, it took them a while to review it. It seemed like they weren't going to actually do it. But yeah, I did write about this album for Pitchfork. And like when I was doing it, it had like a 90 plus metacritic score at the time. And I was like feeling really self-conscious about it, like, you know, kind of given the delicate nature of the record, it being the first one they made after Taylor Hawkins died. I'm like, am I going on a limb here,

giving it a 7.0. And I think it, like, did extremely well in mid-year lists. Yeah, I mean, it got an 86 Metacritic score, so it didn't fall far from 90. No. And, yeah, like, good reviews from, like,

at New York Times, all the British magazines liked it, the Guardian. And I can't, I can't, I can't, and of course, like, look, it's going to, like, kill at the Grammy, so maybe we're speaking, too soon. But yeah, I can't remember a fucking thing about this. And it's like, I reviewed it.

Like, I listened to it enough times to write like a thousand or so words. And I think it's just something symbolic about the album cover being this like blank. It's like almost like a blank white record. There's like just a little bit of like a text on it. And I think that kind of, you know, it's kind of appropriate for an album that like was this like blinding flash of like brilliant. the way it was treated. And then it's just like, oh, yeah, it's just like another Food Fighters album. The title of which I'll probably not be able to recall.

But here we are. But here we are. Yeah, here we are. And at 20, yeah, indeed, Indycast. Right here we are. That's it. We're done with the Indycast days. And we're done with 2023.

There's no episode next week. Taking the week off. We'll be back in early January. Talking about God knows what. possible yay say or reunion albums I don't know maybe this is a

maybe maybe maybe next year we'll do like our favorite trends we will have into existence yeah well yeah that could be good we'll write that one down

thank you all everybody for listening it's been another fun year on Indycast we love our audience even the people that write us mean emails

even the haters and losers yeah even the haters even the losers we love you all it's been a pleasure reviewing albums

and hashing out trends with all of you this year and we're looking forward to more in 2024 aren't we Ian yes we are more in 2024 yep can't wait for it thank you all we'll see you next year and if you're looking for more music recommendations sign up for the indie mixtape newsletter you can go to uprocks dot com backslash indie and i recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box