Indiecast - The 2025 Indiecasties + A Note About The Show's Future

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

Steven and Ian begin with a quick Sportscast about the disastrous turn for Steven's beloved Green Bay Packers (0:34). They also do some clarifications on last week's year-end albums lists (5:59). After that, they discuss the future of the show and reveal that there won't be any new episodes for the foreseeable future (9:44). Finally, they commence with the annual awarding of the Indiecasties (22:17).Listen to Episode 270 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talked about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we hand out our 2025 Indycastees awards. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He gives Micah Parsons ACL a 1.6. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? I'm happy to see that you're having a sense of humor about this whole affair.

You know, as a show of allegiance to an Eagles fan, from an Eagles fan to a Packers fan, I know we don't see eye to eye most of the time, but I'm thinking about 2017 when the Eagles were cruising to the playoffs and then the last game of the year close to it, Carson Wentz's leg exploded. And thus began the legend of Big Dick Nick Foll. So if there's some pass rusher on the Packers who will similarly step up and, you know, claim their love of Jesus just a little too much, you know, I'm looking. looking at Lucas Van Ness. I think you guys will be all right. Yeah, you know, it was a crazy game. The Packers were playing the Broncos last Sunday. They were at Mile High Stadium. We were up 23 to 14.

It looked like we were cruising to a win that we were going to be going into this week's game against the Bears, still in first place. Jordan Love playing out of his mind. Maybe he's the leading MVP candidate at that point. And then, you know, things take a terrible. turn. Jordan Luff does a pick on a, like a big bomb to Christian Watson. Christian Watson gets hurt. And then, you know, Bronco score, a couple touchdowns. And then my boy, Micah Parsons, tears the ACL out for the season.

It's funny because I was actually at a chorus concert. My wife sings in a local choir. So I was watching the game on my phone during this concert. Not the best husband, perhaps. But brutal, brutal thing. Sports, terrible. This is why I prefer art, ultimately. Doesn't break your heart maybe as much.

But no, we're not out. I mean, look, I heard a very optimistic person talking on some podcast about how the year the Packers won the Super Bowl back in 2010, we had like 20 guys on injured reserve. We were the most injured team in the league and still found a way. to win and go on the road. We had to play all of our playoff games on the road. The first one was against your Eagles, won that game, and then proceeded to blow through the playoffs,

and then win the Super Bowl against the Pittsburgh Steelers, which maybe that'll happen this year. Maybe play Aaron Rogers. That'd be the most unlikely Super Bowl of all time. I'm not going to bet on that happening, but look, what else am I going to watch this time of year other than this team that risked my heart out and makes me regret ever caring about sports.

So I'm going to continue doing it, no matter what. But I don't know, maybe this is the thing the Eagles need. Maybe this will open the door. Because I feel like the NFC, what, you got the Rams maybe? If I were to bet on somebody, probably be the Rams to come out of the NFC. Maybe the Seahawks. We got Sam Darnold. He's like a wild card.

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, the Eagles could pull it together. I mean, of course they look great against the Raiders, which, by the way, between, like, Michael Parsons and Patrick Mahomes tearing his ACL in that game. I just, like, can we, like, induct a non-musician into the Indycast Hall of Fame? I'm thinking of Vante Davis, who retired in the middle of, like, a meaningless builds game in week three. And I just, maybe I just don't have athlete mindset, but I cannot fathom how someone on the Raiders could, you know, put their life and limit risk for a 2-12 team. When you really look at how frequently injuries happen in the NFL, it's really amazing that all these games aren't 34 to nothing.

You know what I mean? Also, I'm mad at Pat Mahomes because I wanted the chiefs to crash out the old-fashioned way and just go like six and ten or something like that. But now it's like, oh, all the injuries. I wanted them just to be washed, not injured, even when they lose, they're annoying. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, they are pretty washed. They were pretty washed going into this. I mean, even if Mahomes had gotten hurt, they probably would have lost that game and they'd be done. And it's now just a matter of if they're going to do the Patriots thing where they have a double dynasty over 20 years, which will be interesting to see.

But yeah, I don't know. Packers and Bears play Saturday night. I look forward to, I mean, hopefully we can win that. If we win that game in a way, that's like my Super Bowl right now. If we can sweep the Bears, that'd be amazing. I'm not banking on that. I do think the Bears probably win this game,

but if we could pull that one out, it'd be pretty amazing. I'm going to be a human shield for the Bears fans in your mention. I still don't believe in Caleb Williams. I think he's got a little bit of mid-career Trevor Lawrence in him where a lot of the skill set and a lot of the praise is just based on the fact

that he was a number one pick rather than what he's actually doing. I mean, the media, really want to crown Caleb and Ben Johnson and the Bears because they can kick the crap out of a terrible Cleveland Browns team and people just act like they are back on track as like a Super Bowl contender.

Now I will say Packers lost to that same Cleveland Browns team. So I do not, I concede that you know a win is a win. You play who is on the schedule but I don't know. The media definitely wants the Bears to be good. Point of clarification, from last week because there were a couple things that came up people reached out to me after listening to our best albums of 2025 episode. The first thing is, so I think I got caught here at one point

not paying attention to what you were saying because you were talking about the Okaloo album, right? Yes. And I got an email in the middle of that. It was an email I was expecting and you were talking and I read the email and then you were done talking and I think after that I said something like I don't know that album but I need to check that out

and you didn't say anything I didn't why didn't you say anything why didn't you say like hey wait a second I know you know because we had talked about that album the previous week so like did you think I had like dementia

or I got hit with like a a blunt object and I you know, had temporary memory loss? Uh, yeah, good old sleepy Steve now I'm playing. Yeah, I felt like, wait a minute. Like, because like, I feel like we have. Like, I think I had a memory loss moment as well because, you know, I feel like we had talked about it, but like I wasn't 100% sure.

And, you know, maybe I forgot, hey, we could edit what I said. So that's, that's on me. That's not on you. I feel that's on me. What is on me because I was not paying attention? to what you were saying. So that is my, I am taking the blame for that, but someone reached out,

they reached out to me on X the Everything app, and they said, look, I read about that album from you. Like, you wrote about that in one year roundups for the month early on in the year, and now you're saying you'd never heard of the record. And I had a moment where I had no idea what was going on for about 30 seconds. I actually felt like I had some sort of memory condition

because, like, What? Okay, Lou? And then I put it together that I, this was during the thing where I was reading an email. So that's a good lesson for me. Do not read emails during the recording. Well, either that or maybe you thought it was still pronounced Oak Lou. Yeah, it could have been that.

No, no, I was not paying attention and I got busted for that. So just wanted to clarify that. If there were any confusion out there, that was that. The other thing was someone who reached out to me or they emailed us and they were like, what was Ian's number three album of the year? Because I think OK, Lou was number four. That was, yeah. But they were like number three.

Because I don't think you said the album title right away. I did not say it right away. There was some weed up. So what was it again for those who maybe didn't catch it? Yeah, it was Alginon Cadwallader's trying not to have a thought. Because I did a bit of an intro. I'm like, I was thinking myself when you sent me that email, I was like, did I not say that? Like, I can't be true.

But, you know, like maybe I'm just like riffing and I forgot to talk about the actual album and yeah it takes like a couple seconds for me to get there but i do get there and also um you know if you're not like super for like it's it's 2025 and i don't think i knew how to pronounce that band's name until this year so yeah uh you know that just might be another okay lu situation where it's like i say it but you know it might not register immediately uh what i'm talking about so so just to be clear number four okay lu for ean number three aldrinan caldewalder So any confusion out there, we've not clarified that for Ian. So a little bit of housekeeping there.

I basically just wanted to tell people that I am not going insane. I do know the Okaloo record. So we could put that to bet. Another bit of important business here that we need to discuss. And this is going to sound like a joke. It's going to sound like a bit. But it really is not. This is all seriousness.

It'll become clear as the weeks unfold. but this is the last indie cast for a while. I don't know how long or even if we'll be back. I'm pretty sure we'll be back. But we are going on hiatus for a while. And I'll explain a little bit about why that is. And I won't go too much into this because I know you don't care. You have your own lives.

You don't need to know too much inside baseball here. But last week, I was working at my computer, as I often am during the week, and I got a message on Slack from the chief operating officer of Uprox, the company where I work and the company that produces this show. And he's like, hey, man, can we, do you have a minute? Can we talk on the phone? And as soon as I saw that message, I felt a little like Joe Pesci and Frank Vincent had

just asked me to, like, step into their car. You know, like, it's a scene from the movie casino. know. You know, like, basically, I'm like, I'm about to be whacked. I'm about to be whacked and put in the trunk of this car. And look, that's the mindset that you have when you work in media in 2025. This is something that I've thought a lot about this year. There's been a lot of changes in the business. I've been expecting something along those lines to happen to me. So I get this message and I'm like, okay, I'm toast. So I get on the phone with the COO, who's a really nice guy.

He's been at the company for as long as I've worked there. And we had a really nice conversation. And the good news is that I was not whacked. I am still alive. That's why you're hearing me talk right now. But I was informed that my job is changing, just as the company is changing. And basically, I'm still working there. I'm still full time there.

But I'm not going to. be doing as much as I used to. The role that I have there is being reduced. And part of that reduction involves this show. This show will no longer be produced by Uprocks after this episode. This is the last episode that Uprox will be doing of Indycast. But I should say, again, there's good news here. Uprox, I think very generously, has told me that if we're we want to continue to do this show, that we can continue to do it, and that we can do it as Indycast, and that they're going to actually give me the RSS feed. So when or if we continue the show, the next episode will appear in your feed. You don't have to do anything different.

If you're subscribed, it'll show up. It'll be just like any other episode. And that's a really nice thing, and I don't take that for granted. I don't think a lot of companies would do that. I think it is indicative of how uprocks, I think that they've always been fair to me. I think even in this situation, you know, where my role has been reduced, they've said, look, you know, you can basically do whatever you want outside the company. You can write for anyone you want. You can write about any topic you want, which typically if you're working for a company, if you freelance, they don't want you to write about things that you're going to write about

for the site. You know, it's kind of like a reduced or limited type of. thing. They're like, look, you can do whatever you want elsewhere, but we want to continue to work with you, but you can also be a free agent, which I'm very grateful for, and I'm going to be taking them up on that. I'm planning to be writing for a lot of different places in 2026. You might have seen, I've done some things recently with the ringer, my old friends there. I plan to keep doing that probably more so in the new year. I have a substack evil speakers. I plan to be expanding that pretty dramatically in 2026. A lot of, I would say, like weekly album review type stuff.

That's the kind of things I'd be doing at Uprocks. I think I'll be doing more of that on my own. I will be asking for some money for that. And that's something you can read about on my substack evil speakers. I have a post that's going to be going up either before this episode or concurrent with this episode. So, you know, these are all things that I've been anticipating for a while. I think if you work in media, you have to expect it. I think there's a lot of potential excitement here. When I think about my future, I am excited. I think that there's a lot of things I can do. I'm excited to continue working for Uprocks. I'm appreciative of them continuing to give me a foundation, which will allow me to do other things. I think a little bit easier. It's always nice,

knowing that there's some kind of steady income while you're writing for other things and you're doing podcast. And I do a lot of different things anyway, a lot of different revenue streams. But anyway, as it pertains to this show specifically, you know, look, we've been doing the show for five years. As far as I could tell, we're more popular than ever. The show does better on Apple podcasts. The rankings are higher than ever. anecdotally, I hear from musicians, people in the industry, all kinds of people who listen to the show. I'm always amazed and humbled and excited about the reach that this show has.

I never assume anyone's listening to this show. I don't think we have any listeners in my own mind, but then I go out in the world and I find that that's not the case. And I'm very grateful for all of you for listening. the thing that we're going to have to figure out is how do we proceed from here? What is the infrastructure going to be? What is the balance between a paywall, which this show will be paywall to some degree? I don't know what exactly yet. How do you balance that with trying to get reach?

Because for as long as I've worked in media, it's always been about trying to get as many people as possible and inviting as many people into the tent as you can. But we are moving into a world right now. I think, I mean, we're not moving into it. We are in this world right now where quality of listener is, matters more in some cases than quantity of listeners. And by quality, I mean a listener who is really into what you do so much so that they're willing to support you in some way.

And I do another podcast called Neverending Stories. It's a Bob Dylan podcast that has a much smaller audience in this show. But I've learned from doing that that you can actually make a good amount of money. doing a show that's targeted, that maybe doesn't have a big audience, but the people who listen, they're into it and they're kicking in subscriber money every month. And just generally speaking, I would say to you, the listener, the consumer of media, that in 2026, I would expect that many of the things that you love, podcasts, websites, whatever it is, more and more of those things are going to be paywalled, you know,

including things that you've probably never had to pay for ever. I don't know this for a fact. I'm just speculating, but even something like Pitchfork, for instance, they're probably going to be paywalled in 2026. I would be surprised if there's not some sort of paywall there. It's just true that nowadays online, especially if you're doing writing, so much of the Internet now is pointing people away from writing. and the algorithm is so much about video now

that relying on advertising, I think, is really difficult. It's become near impossible for a lot of people. And I think that if you are a listener, if you're a reader, you're going to maybe have to be a little less passive with these things. The things that you love, you might have to be a little more mindful about how you support them because things are going away and things aren't just going to be there in the same way that they were maybe in the past. So, yeah, with this show, I want to continue doing it.

It's just kind of figuring out how to do it. But I think we can. I guess we'll just have to kind of see. But there's at least going to be a little while where we're not around. And I'd love to hear from you if you can email us, if you can reach out to us on social media, reach out to my substack. I'd love to hear your input on. this, you know, if you're into the show, if you want to see it continue, that would mean a lot

to us, I think. But yeah, this is for real. This is the last episode for a while. It's, it's, I'm not even that sad about it. I, because I feel like this is a period of transition that's going to lead to something that I think is actually going to be pretty cool. You know, it's just the uncertainty of how we get there, I guess. And I've, I've been monologuing here for several minutes. Ian, I don't know if you want to say anything else here to add or how are you feeling about this. Well, what I really want is for Ian, our editor, to splice in the Krusty the Clown. The Clown show has been put on hiatus for retooling bit. Mostly I'm thinking in Simpsons clips here, but yeah. I was going to say, I appreciate the Hackneyed Simpsons reference.

Worked in right away. I'd be disappointed if you didn't immediately go there. Yeah, or the like the Kent Brockman looked for my column in PC magazine bit. That, like, sometimes feels like what it's like to do a sub-snack in 2025. But yeah, I echo all of that. I think both of us knew that this would come someday and how we transition potentially from what we're doing here, which is great and it's automatic to maybe something more of like a Patreon-type deal. But, yeah, I mean, both of us anticipated this because we work in media to varying degrees.

And I think one of the themes that we're going to see throughout the indie castes is this this sense of 2025 represented not that it was the same old thing but more so, but I totally knew kind of fundamentally broken thing. And, you know, this comes on the heels of like Rolling Stone gets gutted and you know what I mean? I don't like that framing though. Because broken means that it's like done. I don't think that's true. Yeah, I think it means more like it's different in a way.

It's like new. You know what I mean? But it's not new. I think this has been going on for several years. It's just that in a way it's accelerating and it's becoming more of a tango. And look, I don't want to do the thing like where, oh, it becomes real when it happens to you because this has already happened to like a lot of people. You know, this is like an ongoing story of, you know, people who have maybe worked for somewhere

and then they have to transition to something else. So this is hardly the first example of that. It's the latest example of that. I think I'm, like, just personally speaking, I feel like I'm, I'm pretty lucky compared to a lot of situations. Again, you know, like I understand where Uprox is coming from. They have to deal with these same realities that everyone else does. And I think they've been fair to me. And I look forward to continue to working with them and in the capacity that we will have in the future.

So, you know, the broken thing, I wouldn't describe it that way. I would say that it is the world that you're used to has been changing for a while. And maybe, and that world does now come for this show. And it's just the latest example of that. But we'll figure out what we're going to do with it moving forward, whatever that may be. I don't know what that is, but I think we'll figure it out in 2026. I agree. And as Keene said on the song, everybody's changing.

everybody's changing and I don't feel the same yeah I guess yeah I think broken was a poor choice of words but it's just like yeah this is uh yeah it's a new frontier but like I feel likewise very fortunate very grateful for everything uprocks has done you know before and since and also giving us back the name I mean very Yankee hotel Foxtrot yeah so we'll see what happens so in the meantime time. Let's do our last, I guess, blowout episode for Uprocks here. And we'll see. Maybe this is the last one ever. Who knows? But if we're going over the cliff, let's go over the cliff. Thumblo and Louise style, hand in hand. This is the Indycaste's 2025. Did we start doing this in 2020? Did we just go back to the beginning of the show? I can't remember. I feel like it probably does. I mean, I think we've just had like bits that have metastas. into whole things. We did, I'm just like looking. Let's see, 1218.

We did in 2020, yeah, we did categories, but we did not, no, we did call it the Indycastes. We've been doing this since the beginning. So the fifth annual. Yeah. The fifth annual, well, we'll say annual for now. Hopefully it will be annual. Hopefully there'll be a sixth annual. But for now it's the fifth indie casties of all time.

Let's get into it here Do you want to read our nominees for the first category This is a perennial for this show Most 2025 album of 2025 Yeah you're correct because that one did That yeah that was our Yes that was absolutely in our first one So most 2025 album of 25

Not the best out but the one that is feels most 2025 So yeah like when when if you're doing a period piece of a 2025 and you know 20 years from now. This is the music that people will play because it represents the year. Yeah. So we have Lambriene girls. And this is in no particular order, I think. Lambreney girls, Addison Ray, geese, Lucy Dacus, Smurz, and Los Thuthanaka.

So those are our most 2025 album of 2025 nominees. Curious to hear your take. So you put Lambreni Girls, which is the one that kind of sticks out to me. as maybe not as strong of a candidate as the other one. Why did you say Lamborghini girls here? All right. So this one is, 20205 has evolved a lot,

but there was a period of 2025 very early on that I think, this is like one of those albums that comes out on like January 10th or something like that. And it gets, I guess, relative to its, you know, relative to its popularity, a lot of press because at the beginning of 2025,

there was a lot of, okay, are we just going to speed run 2017 again? at least the beginning of it, you know, when like Trump gets inaugurated and everything has to be like framed in the, through the lens of that. And Lambrini girls reminded, like a lot of people were saying like, this is the album, we need to like, this is like fighting back. It was very resistance core and also that it showed that the resistance or whatever. It's, it was not 2017 again. So I think that represents a very specific part of 2025 to me.

So to the point where I had to include it. Yeah, so that is an interesting narrative with this year, and I feel like we're going to revisit that in some of these other categories where in a way, 2025, things that feel indelible to the year are things that are pointing to how much it feels like the old era has changed or ended. Like, I put Lucy Dacus in this category for the same reason. We're going to talk a little bit later in this episode about just 2010's era indie stars, which is something I've talked. about many times. I just think it's a fascinating trend. I'm always interested in these years or periods of time where it feels like you can see a changing of the guard taking place. And, you know, I put geese, or maybe you did, I can't remember. One of us, I would agree. I'm actually going to, I'm just going to say that my winner in this category is geese getting killed. Because not only do I

think it's the best album of 2025. It does feel like a record where I think it captures the mood of the year in a way, the sort of the chaotic nature of that record. I also think that the rise of geese feels like the most significant evolution or change in indie music, especially in the 2020s where again you see this passing of the guard. If you want to call it like the boy genius era coming to an end, Lucy Dacus representing that to this band rising

where a lot of people love them. Some people aren't into it, but I think either way you slice it, they do have a level of celebrity and prominence that feels like a decisive kind of change or growth of something. I think Lenderman also last year is part of that, but

I don't know, there's like a level of celebrity with geese that feels a little bit different to me. Cameron Winter is just on the cover of New York Magazine with Deborah Harry which is incredible when you consider that that's like almost a year to the day after heavy metal was released and basically

ignored. Yeah. Upon release and dumped by the record label because they didn't think that anyone would care about it. I mean they've essentially come out and said that they put it out in December because they thought oh no one's going to care about this album. And then a year later you know, they're just like the biggest band in indie rock.

So I'm going to put them as my choice in this category. I think Geese Getting Killed feels like the most 20-25 album to me. I did too, but I really do. Luzi Deikis was not one that I thought about, but now that like it's on there, this really strikes me as in a similar way in a Lamborghini girls, like an attempt to not move on in a weird way.

Like one of my most profound memories of the boy genius era was like seeing them at San Diego State. They played like a field next to Snapdragon Stadium. And they began the show with like a land acknowledgement. And it made this thing like Lucy Dacus would integrate like she would, she's like an ordained minister or something. Or at least like. And so she would have that. And that felt like so like Biden era. And I think like Lucy Dacchis and Lambrini girls and so many others.

things where this attempt to like not let go of the previous years like not to like be blind reality but you know they like get a little Buddhist with it you know pain comes from the inability to let go and so lucy dacus does resent more so than some of the other things we're going to talk about represent like the kind of white like white cluckling onto like the past but yeah it's got to be geese this was like a very old like very old school like vampire weekend like, you know, rise of a buzz band, if you want to call it that. And, you know, it was fun to make fun of them and also fun to love them and also fun to do both. And yeah, I think the New York magazine cover really seals the deal. So, well, and they are like Vampire Weekend or the

strokes in a way, although it's, you know, it's like their third album. You know what I mean? Like, it's not the debut, even though it feels like that in a way in terms of their media profile, you know, but they were, you know, in a way like a middling indie band a year ago. And I say that as someone who loves 3D country. Like, I was a big fan of that record. But, you know, Geese was not a band that anyone was talking about as being a significant paradigm-shifting group a year ago. You know, just, and to push back a little bit on your thing about Lucy Dacchus, like the white knuckling, I don't think that that was a deliberate or conscious thing when that record came out.

It's like, you know, I don't think you know when these changes are happening until they happen. You know, again, you know, the geese thing, that happened really quickly. You know, we're talking about a year's time, you know, the Lucy Dacus record, I think, came out in March. You know, there was no reason necessarily to think that the music scene was going to change so dramatically. And not to exaggerate it, because, I mean, she's still like a popular artist. Yeah. We are talking largely, I think, about vibes right now, but I think the vibes are real. And I think that is like an actual change.

I mean, it's just fascinating. I think that's why years like this are so fascinating because you don't know sometimes week to week or month to month that things had, that something is shifted. But then you look back on the year and you realize, oh, yeah, like, wow, okay, that record, it feels like a came out five years ago, not nine months ago. You know, but because we, I feel like we had a bunch of years in the early 2020s where it felt like nothing changed dramatically for a while. You know, 2020 to 2023 feels pretty static, I think, in retrospect.

And then the last two years, you feel like, oh, the stars of maybe the previous era have faded a little bit. Now there's this whole generation of people that have come up. Now I feel like that feels really strong. You know, there's this new crop that is like, they feel like they're it. And we'll see what it's like. It's like that scene in Boogie Nights, like where Dirk Diggler, he's not the guy anymore. Now, you know, Bert Rallel's sitting with Johnny Wad in the bar.

You know, like, he's the new guy. And you don't know that always in the moment. So that's really fascinating. This is somewhat related to the previous category, but it's something we always like talking about on the show. memory hold album of the year and man some of the ones that you picked you're always really good at this you're good at remembering the memory hold albums because like you put arcade fire on here i honestly forgot that record came out i mean i i was one of the many people who wrote like a pretty

hard pan of that album so yeah maybe i should remember that but totally forgot about that record car seat headrest I didn't remember that album You put Mumford and Sun Slash the Lumineers I had no idea Either one put out an album this year Was that the first album for Mumford

Since they fired the Anti-Woke banjo player I think so Yeah but like Because I put those two together Because I felt like There was these like Like hey stomp claps coming back

And yeah They just kind of came and went Yeah but they're probably playing arenas still. So they're probably doing okay. Lizzo, she was on SML, I think. So it was Arcade Fire. Arcade Fire was too. That's right. That's brutal. Lauren Michaels, what are you doing? Chance the rapper. I do remember that album. Julian Baker slash Torres, that record. I wonder if something happened with it. They didn't like even really tour that. I think one of got like sick. I think there was like some physical stuff going on. That's too bad. That's too bad. Yeah.

Mac DeMarco, and then Tamapala. I put that in there. I'm actually going to say that Tamapala is my memory hold album of the year, because I think for an album to really qualify in this category, it should be a record that had an expectation of being more of an event. And, you know, Arcade Fire, this is, I guess it was officially their first post-scandal album. because we came out and I think the scandal happened

right after that record happened. So it's officially the first post-scandal album, but I don't think people had really any expectations that that album would do anything or be any good unless you're just like a ride or die funeral fan. Outside of that, I don't think there

really was. Tame and Paula, though, you know, I know that their previous record Slow Rush was kind of buried by COVID, but I mean, you know, Currence is such a huge record. I really feel like that album,

I haven't heard a peep about that since it came and went. And like the singles felt like, you know, didn't have any buzz. So I think I'm going to put, I'm going to, that's going to be my memory hold album of the year, I think,

the Tame Apollo record. That would be a good choice and also one that I would gravitate towards. I think though it came out like kind of too recently. And moreover, like after it came out. out like a lot of my coworkers were really excited to see them live so um yeah i think there's still yeah i think there's still kind of popular if it's called deadbeat by the way i'd never said the title of the album but it's deadbeat yeah continue yeah it was a member wrong because i like to

call it dud beat um but yeah i think that album still like they're probably like a festival band that just has no critical cachet so um but yeah i think it's a good choice arcade fire seemed like a just a legendary performance in this because it was designed i think to be memory hold um everything about it just seemed like it was like a sacri and i think a couple people besides myself put this in the review it felt like just a sacrificial lamb like hey here's this album or like there are a couple interludes and it's like 40 minutes long it's like not like we it's not like reflector. It missed the Billboard top 200.

I remember that happening, which seems like insane, given how popular they are. That's right. I forgot about that. That being said, and also, like, the only blip it got afterwards was when, like, win and regime, like, got separated. But to me, this album was so memory hole

that actually became kind of memorable, if that makes any sense, where it is just such a perfect. found memory hold performance that it stood on my end. You know, I also, I reviewed it. So, I mean, I think that's the real one. Of these, though, I think Carseed Headwrest is the one where I'm like, did that really come out this year?

I'm sure, like, you know, they've kind of right-sized and have like a cult, you know, a cult behind them and people are excited. It was actually a pretty good record. But I think more so than anything else, like that's the one where I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure. that came out in 2025. I mean, and it did. I remember that one, I guess, because I actually think it is pretty good.

There's a bunch of long songs on there that are just way over the top and don't work. But the punchy songs, I think, are pretty good in that album. I think my next choice, my runner-up would be the MacDemarko album. Because similar to Tamer Pala, he's like a big star. Yeah. And he has, you know, he put out a bunch of records in the 2010s that I think really had an impact. This hadn't, this was like his first proper album in a while. I think it was like the first in six years.

Since, here comes the cowboy, I think. Yes. And it just felt like such a non-event. And that record just felt like such a non-record in a lot of ways. Very forgettable album, similar to the Tamapala record, I think. So again, really getting back to that idea of 2010's indie stars. I mean, we've kind of focused on the boy genius wing because they were so big. And we haven't seen Phoebe Bridgers come back.

That would be the real. Yes. Because she's a huge star. And it's been like, it's going to be six years since Punisher. Punisher, I think, is still a very significant record of the decade. Sonically, even though the influence now, it feels like it's receded a bit. bit. That's a great record, though. I mean, and I'm very curious, because it seemed like she was everywhere for a while, and now she's been going away. Well, I guess the one thing about, like,

Mac DeMarco is that I think the thing that distinguishes it from, I think the thing that distinguishes it from, say, Tama Pala's that I don't think Mac to Marco was, like, trying to make a huge comeback in the same way, because, like, Kevin Parker was, like, trying to be everywhere, doing all those, like, boiler room type sets. I think Mac DeMarco, just kind of wanted to intentionally downsize what he was doing. So this didn't feel as conflicted with its intention as Deadbeat. So, and also the fact that, like, Deadby got panned so much made it a little bit more memorable. But, yeah.

So, yeah, but I think it's got to be Arcade Fire. This is like a Daddy's Home type performance. Yeah, I mean, the failure to make the top 200 after being on SNL is, incredible. I mean, I really still can't wrap my head around that. I mean, because these other artists that we've talked about, I guess the case for Arcade Fire would be, it feels like they can't even really tour.

Whereas, you know, Tam Palo, Mac DeMarco, they're going to do fine on the road. A lot of people are going to want to hear the old hits, and maybe they're transitioning to more of that. You know, I'm a millennial now who has kids and I have the babysitter, and I want to hear the songs I liked in college. You know, they may be in that part of their career,

which is, you know, hey, we all get there eventually, and they're going to be just fine. But, yeah, Arcade Fire, it feels like that's a whole other level. Let's get to our next category here. Crash out of the year. Why don't you read these nominees, Ian? Yeah. I had these as separate, but I feel like we got a bunch of them together. So speaking of 2010's Indy Star's, you know, tennis and Indigo DeSuzzo, like having old school

flipping out over their pitchfork reviews, like IndytoSuzzo Award. like Innoisseau wore like, like, sicken their fans on the writer and like wearing a t-shirt, like with the score. So that was one. Spin Publishing military propaganda. Right.

Which I don't think it was new. I think they've done that before I heard, but it just got more attention this year. Where, yeah, I think the Army is literally doing sponsored content on spin. Where it, I think there was a story about like,

like, band, like where all the guys are in the Army? Yeah. Am I mis-ro? It was something like that. It's something like that. It's like, if our army is like trying to like recruit from like a spin reader, like these are people who are either like 50 because they had the spin guide to alternative albums or like,

I don't even know. But it's like, man, that's like really scrape. It's not like it used to be where you could put like a three doors down song during like a movie preview and try to recruit that way, man. We are, we are washed as a military. Yeah, they're trying to get the young person who wants to read Bob Guccione Jr. enthusing about Killer Mike Records. Like, that's who we want to be all they can be at this point.

So beyond that, we have Lord's album cycle. This one I put on there just as a lark. I put Davey Havoc's haircut, turning into a goth, Frank Zappa, the guy from AFI. I had no idea. I was like, what is this? But apparently that was a big deal in punk and emo circles for a while. Yeah. The 2010s Indy Star is crashing out, which we've littered throughout our year talking about.

Vinyl be pleas I put on there. The whole crash out. And the end of Indycast. Yeah. A late comer to the category. We got to be fair here. Indicast crashing out at the end of 2025. Pretty crazy.

I got to say the 2010s indie stars. Again, that is one of my personal favorite, or not favorite, but something that's interesting to me, just to witness. Got to shout out, you know, Sharon Van Etton, Alex G., those two 2010-era indie stars. They put out some of my favorite albums of the year. The Sharon Vanettin record in particular, I think,

I feel like that flew a little under the radar. That's a great album, the album she made with the attachment theory. It's one of my favorite records that she's, he's done and she's just continued to put out really good records. The Alex G album, is he flying under the radar now? I feel like that album did pretty well when it came out. And then I don't,

I feel like it flipped a little bit on him. Like people, it didn't seem like there was any backlash to him signing to, what labels he on? Is it capital? Atlantic or something. Atlantic, something like that. He's like, it didn't seem like there was a,

there was any blowback. him signing to a major label, but now... RCA. RCA. I feel like people were complaining about that record being a little too straightforward, a little too singer-songwritery. I think it's like a... It's a really good record. I would maybe like to hear him get a little weirder on the next record,

but it's a good album. So those two kind of went against a tide. But yeah, overall, I would say the crash out would be just the series of albums from 2010's indie stars that we've already talked about. I feel like that just underperformed and underwhelmed this year. Yeah, I mean, I think for me that is this a story, like one of the bigger stories of the year. But when I think about Crash Out, I think we did not get the like real like tanking hard record.

We got like a lot of like doubles and triples, but nothing that just like knocked it out of the park as this is an end of an era. Deadbeat, I think. Oh, yeah, I guess so. You don't think that, that feels like a pretty hard tank. Yeah, I think, yeah, it's just funny because I think Tame and Paula, like, I don't associate, for whatever reason, I don't, like, quite associate him. Like, it's just like he's bigger than that, but that's a good point. But for me, this is sort of like the Lucy Dacus thing where with tennis and Indigo de Sousa having these like old school flipping out over pitchfork reviews as this was like 2012 all over again. to me that was because there was just something almost kind of quaint about it to mobilize your fans to get upset at like this, you know, get upset at this like whatever it was, like a 6.6 type review.

And so I guess it's just the inaccuritism of all of it made me feel like that was a crash out because it was like self-inflicted in a way. Like, yeah, you could say like, you know, the Japanese breakfast or Lucy Degas out. Yeah, they made the record. But to me, tennis, Indigo DeSuzza, and, like, they are still going through it. Like, Indigo DeSuzza, I think played a pitchfork festival. It was either in Paris or London. Like, they just kept pressing that button. And it's such a bad look.

Like, for an artist, it never goes well. So I'm going with that. Well, and it's interesting because, I don't know, we might end up talking about this later in the episode, unless we run out of time. We're running a little long. But anyway, the artist getting mad about pitchfork reviews, it is an interesting parallel to the think piece trend of the year,

which was talking about how music critics aren't mean enough. That was something we saw many times culminating with that New Yorker piece. And it's just funny to me that it also, we also have this other thing where you had multiple people coming out and just railing about record reviews, feeling like they were mistreated. I mean, I don't know. I might have more to say about the music criticism thing here in a minute, so maybe we should just table that.

Let's get to our next category. The feel good story of the year. Let's feel good here for a second here. Some people might say the Indicast. That could be a nominee here, but not here, not for people listening to the show. Maybe certain bands would say that. I almost said the name of the band, but I'm not going to say that. Feel Good Story of the Year.

These are the nominees, according to us. Critics finally turning on Taylor Swift. Yes, another instance of music critics, not being not mean enough right there. The return of indie rock, which we've talked about, geese, I guess, being at the head of that, but just indie rock returning to cultural prominence, returning to the top of year endless.

The Oasis Reunion, that's a big deal for me. the Rise of Geese kind of tied to the indie rock thing this is something people might have forgotten the guy from Yuck winning an Oscar remember that for the Brutalist scoring the Brutalist The decline of bodies and spaces

style music criticism another criticism based thing you know it just feels like maybe music writing was quote a little less woke this year and maybe that was something worth celebrating. And then Ian gets a book deal.

How about that? That's a feel good story. There you go. Out of all these, you know, the return of indie rock, obviously that's good for this show. You know, we like indie rock here, so that was an exciting thing.

So I would say that, you know, the Oasis Reunion was a big deal for me. So it'd be one of those two. I guess I'll say the return of indie rock. just because of the broader significance of it. Yeah, I think for, you know, the critics finally turning on Taylor Swift, I see this as like a parallel with like the Eagles winning the Super Bowl in that I was just convinced with the way the culture was going that only bad things could happen and that no consequences were ever happening. But the Eagles, not only won, they just like beat the shit out of the Chiefs.

And, you know, Taylor Swift like would like, it's not like, oh, finally taken down a peg. This was like breaking sales records, but it felt like there was this freedom, I guess, for people to write in a way that wasn't like, you know, looking over their shoulders, worrying about getting docs. I think both like the swifties and the critics kind of like drop the rope to use a therapeutic term where it's like, yeah, you do your thing, we'll do ours. And it did not dominate my life to the same degree that it did a few years back. I would say the Bodies and Spaces style criticism, it didn't look like it did in 2018, but I think that stuff was still happening, just maybe with different linguistics. There was a little bit woke 2.0 stuff happening this year, but not the same, like, 2018 style.

I'm going to have to go with me getting a book deal. I'm a little biased in that one. But, you know, it's just funny. It reminds me of, I'm trying to think of, like, how Bill Simmons framed it one time. It was like when David Robinson won the MVP, like just because like, okay, like he's never won the MVP given MVP. And then like Hakeem Olajuan just like folks on just completely destroying him in the playoffs. So that would have like to me get a book deal, but like you had two. Yeah.

You know, hey, no, that's positive. Happy for you. That's going to be an amazing book. Yeah, I don't know. Again, the Taylor Swift thing I think is interesting because I think it is time. up in the music critics not being mean enough thing where I feel like the think pieces, the people who talk about this, they're really talking about Taylor Swift. I think ultimately, you know, these think pieces always come out after Taylor Swift albums.

And it's because Taylor Swift album reviews tend to go viral more than other kinds of reviews. The only other kinds of reviews that kind of really go mega viral are really kind of negative like a pan of something. It just rips it apart. Or geese, honestly, like, the algorithm loves geese. I've found that, like, if I tweet about geese, it does great traffic. There's something, Elon maybe, he's like a geese guy. I don't know.

But they, that's another thing that sets them apart where I feel like they've just been able to cultivate buzz in a way that we haven't seen from an indie act in a long time. I mean, Cameron Winter is doing this Carnegie Hall concert. Paul Thomas Anderson and Benny Safdi are filming it. I mean, that's a serious amount of juice. Let's get to most annoying trend hash of the year. This is, I guess our hashing of it isn't annoying, we're saying. We're saying that it was annoying for us to hash it this year, a trend.

So why don't you read these nominees? All right. So basically anything about it. AI. AI, chat, GPT, anything. Performative male core, like, boy, that, like, you know, talking about Lafay or, like, Clero. What does that mean? Like, define that a little bit more, because I'm not totally clear on what you mean by that either.

Yeah, so for whatever reason, like, my, my feed and my Instagram was just, like, these, like, Macha, Clero, Lafay. Like, basically, if you're, like, a dude who reads a book and listens to a female artist, That puts you in performative male core. And I will also say that this came up more because I work, you know, like I work in an office with a lot of people between the ages of 25 and 35, like almost exclusively like women, some of whom are single. So I would hear a lot about this type of person existing.

So it was probably on my radar more so than like it was yours. Beyond that, we have Lily Allen's album. Yeah. Her first album. Yeah. I was seeing that like David Harbour was apparently crashing out in a San Diego bookstore. I'm looking more into that story. Like you mentioned, music critics aren't mean enough.

Yes. Another one, like dad rock. Like it's kind of like a corollary of performative male core where like people were just basically saying if a guy made it, it's dad rock. Oh, right, because it was that GQ thing earlier this year where they were just listening any kind of guitar band. was Dad Rock, which I guess the idea is that middle-aged men love guitar music and no one else does. Yes. Which I can't argue with.

You know, I'm a middle-aged man. I love guitar music. I don't think I'm the only one who likes it, but, you know, regardless. What else we got here? For what I, like, I loved one battle after another, but I feel like the anti-one to battle after another takes were just like so exhausted. And likewise, the anti-Spotify rap self-righteousness, it's 2025. People are still doing that.

And also just kind of, look, Spotify is bad, but to say, like, being anti-Spotify is, like, novel or, like, making a dent. That just felt, like, really annoying to me. So those, a lot of, a lot of bad vibes in the feed right now. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I'll push back on the Spotify thing because I do think that there was a movement. of artists pulling their music from Spotify in a way that felt a little more, it felt a little less isolated this year

than it has in previous years. It felt like there were more artists doing that. And so that felt significant. I mean, I think what you're talking about is, you know, at the end of the year, when people are posting their Spotify rap numbers and they're saying, oh, I listen to whatever the most. And then you get the shaming going on

in the replies. I mean, I understand, okay, yeah, you don't want to publicize Spotify. I mean, I don't listen to Spotify personally. I don't even own a TV is what I'm saying. But no, people are just excited. They're not really endorsing Spotify. They're excited that someone is treating their own music listening habits, like a pitchfork treating the end of the year,

like someone's doing a retrospective of their own listening. It's kind of a cool idea. You know, people get excited about it. I would say, you know, related to what I was saying earlier about thinking about your listening habits, what you want to support. I do think that that is an increasingly important thing. It's always been important, but, you know, it's going to be mindful of what you put your support toward because it does make a difference. Anyway, I would say for me, I've already tipped my hand here. the music critics aren't mean enough thing

is the most irritating thing to me because I do think that the people who complain about that are guilty of what they're talking about because they're really only focusing on a very tiny sliver of what gets written about. They're really just complaining because they feel like critics aren't mean enough to Taylor Swift or Beyonce or some huge pop star.

Meanwhile, they're not reading all the other reviews that get written of lesser known artists which are, I don't know what the percentage of them being negative is but I mean there's a lot more negative reviews out there than I think get credit for and then we see people like

Indigo to Sousa and tennis railing against critics so you have that thing going on so just like on a personal level I find that whole narrative irritating the Lily Allen thing I think was kind of amazing to me just because that just seemed purely like a

a parissocial phenomenon for an artist that I feel like we're still talking about this in 2025 if he wasn't on stranger things like the X would this be something people cared about were they so wrapped up in Lily Allen's artistry that they had to talk about this record it seemed like kind of like a nothing burger to me so I'll say that along with the music critic thing

is would be my picks in this category. Yeah, for me, it's like, I don't know if it's annoying or just like deflating, but like anything about AI because it's, look, I think any, like, I want more legislation against it for sure. I think that the fear around it is legitimate. And at the same time, it's like, it feels like, oh my God, like, can anything be done? So it's not annoying. I think people should talk about it, but it was the one that I get annoyed by because it was the one that, like, filled me.

me with the most dread about the future. But if we're talking about just like the most, like, I cannot believe people are talking about this, it's got to be music critics aren't mean enough. It's like, music critics don't really exist all that much anymore. And it's always about Taylor Swift. Just like, say the thing. Just say that you want like Rolling Stone to give it like four stars instead of five, you know?

I feel like it's, you're absolutely correct that it is doing the thing that it accuses people of doing, you know? Yeah. Well, let's get to our last category here, which is the IndyCass MVP. And we define this by the artist that was the most fun to talk about. Not necessarily because we loved what they did. We might have disliked what they did, but it was just they were good for content for the show. So let's get to the MVP's.

This is the top award of the night. We have Lord here. We haven't talked about Lord yet, which is kind of crazy. But there was a time in the year when her record Virgin was coming out and she was doing interviews. It just felt like there were so many great poll quotes coming from Lord. And, you know, this was a year where there weren't a ton of sort of normal big ticket records that you felt like lasted for longer than a week. And I think, you know, the Lord record, I think some people like it more than other. others, we could debate the quality of it.

I think it's kind of a mediocre record myself, but the album cycle was one of the better album cycles of the year. Was it St. Vincent's Daddy's home? No, it wasn't, but, you know, she's talking about her water bottle. She's talking about, like, watching the Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson's sex tape and calling it empowering, things like that. It was a lot of fun. So, Lord's on the list.

We have geese on the list for reasons that we've already talked about. Oasis, more of a personal choice. Wu life, you put that on here, which is outstanding. And then our boy somber, who we haven't talked about yet either in this episode, but somber. And I'll throw a role model in there too. I mean, this was another trend of the year, this rise of, I'm going to say like, hairy styles spawn of kind of like good-looking average pop boys, you know, know who emerged that just made

music that on one hand has like a tasteful palette in the same way that like a lot of Harry Styles records though like he's drawing from things that are interesting but the output is pretty bland but it's the kind of bland gruel that just does gangbusters on

streaming platforms like somber which I still think that there's some sort of scam going on here but according to Spotify 60 million or so monthly listeners for somber. Unbelievable. So those are our MVP candidates. Ian, who do you pick out of those as the IndyCass MVP?

Yeah, you're like a movie person, so you're probably like have a better comparison for Lord, like someone who's nominated for a bunch of categories, but like didn't win. I think Lord was putting up good numbers this year in terms of banter. It was a very old school, like 2018, 2019 style, you know, like press cycle. And I think she came by it authentically. Like, that was the cool thing about Lord.

It just seems like she really does mean it. She's very earnest. So, yeah, I think just relative to the output, Lord was putting up big comeback player of the year type numbers. I really did enjoy the somber role model wave of artists because, you know, it allows you to just talk about pop artists in a way that feels freeing and fun. It's like you don't have to worry about like being seen as like someone who's like no fun or like having the stands come at you. So Woo Life, they came back.

Then they pulled their stuff off Spotify. I have to go to YouTube to hear Wee Bros. But I mean, it's got to be geese. I mean, I know that's like they're sweeping the awards like, you know, everything all the time style. But where would we be without geese? Without Cameron Winter, without, you know, praising them, without making fun of them, without making fun of people making fun of them. You know, nowadays, like I'm seeing a lot of, like, my wife is seeing, like, geese parodies on TikTok. We were eating, if we're talking about the return of indie rock, this was a 2009-type indie breakthrough.

Like, it just felt so fresh and huge that, I don't know if we're, God, I really hope he gets something like this in 2026, but yeah, Geese was not just the MVP and putting out the best record, but they actually put out the best banter as well. So, yeah, I'm going to say Geese as well. I feel like, you know, they're the kind of band where, you know, they're, I think they're genuinely exciting. not just because I think they make great music, but they have that extra element that we, on the show called The Juice,

they've got the juice, they've got the sort of extra level of excitement that pushes them beyond just being a good indie rock band where you feel like, oh, this band has the potential, and Cameron Winter, I think, has this on his own as well, of like, oh, this guy, you know, these people, what they do, it's going to be an event. You know, it's going to be something that people talk about,

that get excited about, that you're going to have people that just think that this is the greatest thing they've ever heard, then you're going to have like the skeptics coming in saying, oh, this is being astroturfed or this is being overhyped. And it just becomes this really exciting type focal point that we often haven't had in indie music. I feel like, you know, boy, genius commanded that for a while. And now it's geese and it's an exciting thing to behold. obviously Oasis was a big deal for me they were great

Lord a lot of fun maybe she's suffering because of the recency bias thing or like not being recent enough that was more like a first part of the year type thing somber I feel like we actually left some meat

on the bone with somber there could have more somber discourse more somber jokes than we've done maybe we'll get to that and the new year once the show or if the show comes back But yeah, man, it's a really fascinating year, a year of change, a year of, you know, that I think people are going to be looking back and talking about it in the future. I know that I probably will.

So, yeah, that's it for the IndyCasties this year. So I guess all that's left to say at this point is we will not be back next week. No. With more news reviews and hashing out trends, we will hopefully be back at some. some point in 2026. I don't know when, but until then, Ian, signing off and we'll see you down the road. We have not exhausted the woo life stuff. Yeah, I mean, like, what happens. We'll see what happens, baby. We'll be back. I feel pretty confident about that. We'll see what happens, man. But until then, be well, everyone. We'll talk to you down the road. Take care.