Indiecast - The Albums Of 2001 + Ian Gets Married

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

Twenty years helps to put a lot of things in perspective in life, especially music. This week on Indiecast, Steve and Ian are reflecting on the musical landscape of 2001 and how it has evolved in the two decades since. The discussion revolves around four specific categories: albums they loved in 2001 that they longer care about, albums they didn’t care about in 2001 that are now important to them, the overall most important albums of 2001, and their personal favorite albums of 2001. From Daft Punk’s Discovery and Linkin Park’s Hybrid Theory to Jimmy Eat World’s Bleed American and Guided By Voices’ Isolation Drills, this episode is an exercise in nostalgia and reevaluation for the music that helped to shape the 2000’s.In lieu of this week's Recommendation Corner, we're taking a moment to congratulate Ian on his wedding and wish him a wonderful honeymoon! We'll be back with more recommendations next week.You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about our favorite albums of 2001. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, The Groom's still waiting at the altar. Ian Cohen.

Ian, who are you? Yeah, I don't know what you're referring to in that introduction. You know, I like to keep my... It's a Bob Dylan reference. Oh. Hello? Come on, man. this is my version of you like making an obscure Simpsons joke and me not getting it I'm dropping a Bob Dylan reference on you.

Also though, it's a reference to you getting married. Yes. We should say at the top of the episode that this is a banked episode. Yes. We recorded this a week ago. It would be a week ago by the time this posts because Ian, you got married. It would be the Sunday. like the previous Sunday from when we are posting this.

Yeah. It's very confusing when you do the banked episode because the time space continuum is broken, but by the time this post, you will be a husband. Yes. And congratulations to you in advance. Very happy for you. And you'll, will you be back from your honeymoon

by the time this post, or will you still be out? I think I'll be like just, I think I'll just be pulling in. So, yeah. Pulling in back home or pulling into your? honeymoon pulling in back home. So I'm going to be off the grid for the next week. So I mean, I know there's like just kind of this cliche of, you know, if you're a guy, make sure you don't like book your wedding on a Sunday in the fall because everyone's going to be watching football. And, you know, like I live in San Diego. That's definitely not going to happen here. But, you know, if you want to know Indycast's dedication to craft, like as we started to look at our episodes, you know, for the next month, so I started to realize like, oh shit, my wedding was booked on the week of the Coldplay album. That is like booking a wedding on the Super Bowl and the universe of Indycast.

That's why we did Coldplay last week. We were talking about that in advance, and that's why we're doing an evergreen topic for this episode. And I have to say, I'm a little concerned. I'm mainly happy that you're getting married. Okay, cool. That's a beautiful occasion, but I'm also a little worried about all the discourse that we're going to be missing while you're off gallivanting with your new bride that you know what if say uh lana del ray and st vincent make a record together about uh i don't know uh the opioid crisis or something

what if something like that happens uh or some other great event occurs and we're not going to be able to talk about it oh god you know that we were just leaving the lane wide open for other Upstart podcast to hash out trends. I mean, Oh, man. Endless scrolls out there licking their chops right now. This is like a weak moment for us. I know.

It's like, that's the thing, man. Like, you know, Indycast for once prioritized family, friends, and love over the discourse. And,

you know, look where it got us. Usurped. But, um, exactly. There could be like a Mitzki fan revolt. God. This week,

uh, you know, I'm just trying to think of like other worst case scenarios for discourse that we could be missing. Well, I've- Possibilities are endless. I've noticed that already today, this is Friday the 8th, that the world is, was not included on seven albums you should listen to today on Pitchfork. So they might get foxing.

So if that happens on my week off, actually, that's probably better if it happens when I'm completely off the internet. So I would hate for us to have to do like an emergency. What do you think about the fact that like this album that you love got absolutely shot on? But see that's going to be like that part in Superman too where he marries Lois Lane and then the world goes to hell and everyone's like, we're Superman. And he's off, you know, hanging out with Lois Lane and the fortress of solitude. Yeah. And that's what the world's going to be like if somehow the world is. Like maybe they get like a 6.1 or something from Pitchfork. Falling below the Peppa Pig perimeter. Yes. People are going to be like, where's Ian? We need Ian to speak. for us, you'll be gone. It's like, look, the guy has a personal life. He has to

tend to that. He can't always be there for the discourse. So, hoping for a slow week. Hopefully, we didn't miss anything. Or else this whole conversation will seem horribly ironic to our listeners. They'll be like, all these things happened that they're not talking about.

So, anyway, again, congratulations to you. We're all happy for you. We're all going to want to know what you played at your wedding when you when you get back uh all the indie rock hits that you spun at your reception we're all dying to hear about that um but uh for now i guess we should go to our mailbag segment let's go to our mailbag we are still you know as as long as like i'm on the clock we got we we got to acknowledge the indicast fans who we're going to continue to support us and

ask for the discourse with me out for the week so let's let's let's let's let's let's tend to our flock so to speak yeah Okay, so again, if you want to write to us, we're at Indycastmailbag at gmail.com. You can also find us at Indycast 1 on Twitter. Also, look, if you like the show, leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice. It always helps the show if you leave a review. Definitely give us five stars. Five stars are bust.

That really helps us. Every time we get a review, Ian will be able to lavish his wife with another fur coat. Yeah. So we love fur coats here in San Diego. And I can't exactly. You know, I was just thinking that, you know, since now we're both going to be married men, that like this could be a bit on our show now, like where we just complain about our wives.

Like, do take my wife please jokes. Yeah, we're getting real borsh belt with it in 2022. That's the thing, you know. We've just like up our age demographic by 10 years. So we're just going to talk about like that. And I'm going to come back all of a sudden like a. to understand all of your Bob Dylan references. Exactly.

Well, I think I'm just envisioning the show being like according to Jim, like a show like that where instead of one schlubby guy, there's two schlubby guys and they're married to like beautiful wives. Yeah. But then in this scenario, like there'd be two Jim Belushi's and they both host the indie rock podcast. I want to work that in because that seems to be a very commercial formula. Maybe we can take this show to the next level with that sort of thing.

The podcast to Dad Sitcom Pipeline. It's a real thing. Exactly. So do you want to read this question? I'm going to offer to you again. All right. Well, so this question comes to us from Max from Los Angeles. Not your typical Indycast town, but nonetheless, I live there for 10 some odd years. So it's good to know that we've hit the coastal elites. SoCal. Yes. SoCal, baby. All right. So, dear Stephen Ian, I'm dealing with a serious dilemma, one that can only only be solved by the host of the premier indie rock podcast. I just want to take a break all y'all out there this week. This is the premier indie rock.

I mean, is that even a compliment at this point or is he just stating a fact? Yeah. I think that's just a statement of fact at this point. But anyway, thank you, Max. All right. So two tours I really want to see are unfortunately playing in my city on the exact same night. So in what feels like a question made for Indycast, should I get tickets to see the War on Drugs or the Foxing slash Manchester Orchestra show when they are both.

in Los Angeles. For the record, it would be my first time seeing any of these acts live. If you could please hold an impromptu recommendation corner to state your case, offering the pros of seeing both live shows, and help me make a decision, I would greatly appreciate it. Max, from Los Angeles. Yeah, this one, I don't even, this is like a sci-ops, man. Like, I don't even know.

I was going to say, is Max real or is this like an Indycast bot? Because this seems like a very specifically tailored question. Are these two bands even playing on the same night? No, they are. I looked it up. They are. Okay, so sorry, Max, you're for real. We're just saying this is very specifically tailored to us.

I got to say that I feel like he's setting up a scenario that seems like it has a clear-cut division between you and I, because I'm a well-known Warren Drugshead, but I probably like Manchester Orchestra even more than you. I think that's fair to say. I mean, because I think you've come around to them recently, but I've been more of a booster of them over the years, at least in the last like five years or so, when I've really gotten into them and kind of gone back. So it is a hard choice for me as well, but I'm curious, I don't know if you want to dive into this first. Yeah. It is a clear-cut choice for you. Like, you would go with Manchester and Foxing, right? Here's the thing. You have to consider,

like, I love the fact this question is from Los Angeles because this gives me a bit more insight as to which one I would choose because like the venue really matters because, you know, in Los Angeles, you have to take a lot of things in consideration, like parking, where it is, what kind of crowd are you going to get. So the War on Drugs is playing at the Shrine Expo Hall. Now, not the best part of the city. Last time I went to the Shrine, no, sorry, this is at the Shrine Auditorium. The Shrine Expo Hall is a single worst venue in Los Angeles.

But that's another story. But the Shrine Auditorium, last time I was there, I saw American football open for churches and got an entire beer spilled on me by some USC frat guy who was just like, sorry, dude. So that's the audience that you're probably going to get at the Shrine Auditorium in L.A. And also, you know, war on drugs. So why is it by the university? Yeah, it's right on the USC campus, I believe.

Okay, so a lot of bros go to those shows. I like war on drugs too, but you can see. a Los Angeles war on drugs crowd. And I just imagine, especially since it's a seated show and indoors, like I think, like, I'm surprised they're not playing the Greek theater or the Hollywood Bowl somewhere outdoors. I imagine you're going to get a lot of talking from the audience. That's just something I know as a lot of, a guy who's seen a lot of shows in Los Angeles. Now, on the other hand, this is the, if you're going to see the war on drugs in Los Angeles,

that's the time to do it because they're not playing any they're not playing orange county or san diego they're actually going to finland the next time the next show and you might have to see um at a festival in 2022 i imagine they're going to be a major player on there so can i just say i think it's amazing that they're playing that one show in l a here in minneapolis actually it's in st paul they're playing two shows here at a at a venue and maybe that's because i live here because they feel like we'll pay homage to Steve, we'll do two shows in his backyard. I mean, how big is the Shrine Auditorium? Is that like 5,000 capacity?

I don't know offhand, but I can just tell you the last time I was there. It's 6,300, it looks like, I think. Okay, that makes sense because the venue they're playing here, over the course of two shows, it'd be about 6,000 people. Yeah. Would they be seeing them, so that makes sense. So I think that's what it is. But yeah, I mean, like also, mind you, last time I was there, church is played.

And also, this might just mean like a radius clause thing because they're coming back to California later that year to do like Coachella or something like that. So maybe that's the deal. Also, if they are indeed playing Coachella, then you could probably see him at like Pappy and Harriet's or one of those shows in between the two Coachella weekends. On the other hand, this is a deep dive into LA venues here. Well, Max needs to know, man. This is my area of expertise. I love it. As far as Manchester Orchestra and Foxing, now, they're playing at the Palladium.

great venue. That's where they did like the Joyce Manor Tigers Jaws turnover shows. And if you're going to see Manchester Orchestra, you're getting a Manchester Orchestra crowd. Like they are there to see Manchester Orchestra, not because, you know, they kind of dabble in indie rock and, you know, the war on drugs just happens to be like one of the biggest bands going. Here's what I got to qualify, though. Foxing is not a co-headliner. They are an opening act. And so you're going to see like them play eight to ten. songs, all of which are like the most popular. Now, they are for my money, the best live band in

indie rock as far as like playing, you know, thousand cap, 500 cap type shows. Maybe they come around on a headlining tour. I think that's sweetener though for this show as opposed to no, this is my only chance to see foxing. Also, you have the option of coming down the next night to San Diego to see that show at the Observatory, which is my favorite venue in the city. So, Max, if you're looking to make the drive, I would say do both. If you had to choose one, like, I would still go with Manchester Orchestra. I'd still go with Manchester Orchestra and Foxing, only because I think that you'd have a chance to see We're on drugs later on, maybe at a more, a venue more amenable to what they do. Now, that is such a thorough answer.

I don't even know how much I need to add, except to be the, I guess, the obligatory war on Drugs booster, which I will do. But I'll just say before I say that, and just to circle back to something I said a few minutes ago, that I am a big Manchester Orchestra fan. And I think, you know, they're a great live band. The fact that Foxing is opening for them obviously gives that show an edge if you just want to go purely by like two great bands versus one. I guess we don't know who's opening on the War on Drugs tour.

I actually tried to look this up and I didn't see any information on that. So maybe that'd be a tiebreaker. maybe they get the strokes to open for them, just like the redout chili peppers did. Not that that would actually happen. But I'm just saying maybe they'd be a great band opening for the War on Drugs. But yeah, I mean, the double bill aspect of the Manchester show

makes that really hard to turn down. The case I would make for the War on Drugs is that, A, I think that they've become a really great live band. I mean, this is a band that I've seen evolve over the course of about a decade where, you know, different people have come into the band, They've become more seasoned. I mean, they've really gone from a band that was Adams Project

to like a real live rock and roll band that always puts on great shows. I have a feeling that they're going to be leveling up on this tour with lights and production, so it's going to be something really cool to look at. And I would just say that their catalog at this point is really strong, and they're going to have a great body of work to draw from. And it just makes me think that this might be like the best tour to see them. Yeah. You know, I hope that they're around for a long time and they keep putting on great records.

But like this is sort of like their like, you know, Springsteen around the time of born in the USA era. You know, like where they've been around for a long time, they've got a lot of great albums to draw from. They're at a high. And it may not get any better than this. So that would be the case I'd make for them. but look, I think what Ian said about the San Diego option is a great workaround for this issue. See the War on Drugs in L.A., then drive down to San Diego to see Manchester and Foxing. Ian will escort you personally to the show, can we promise that, that you'll be there and you'll hang out with Max at the show.

Maybe you could probably get on a guest list. Max, you're plus one. A lot of pressure on me. Like, you know, I do, I do happen to have someone, look, I have someone, you know, happens to live with me who was, you know, very much into, you know, Manchester Orchestra. So, I mean, let's keep in mind that, like, Max, I love the fact you're writing in. I don't think you've, like, I don't think you have top priority right now if I do happen to have a guest list for the Manchester Orchestra, Foxing Show. Sorry, dude. So he's going to take his, see, he's already changed.

He's a married man now. He's now taking his wife to a show instead of the fans, the show. That's bullshit, man. I just want to point out our second date was a cursive mineral show. Wow. Yeah, this is, she's been ride or die since the beginning. This is true love. This is true love right now.

When I saw the Farewell Me Without You show, she asked for me to get her a T-shirt, which she still currently owns. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, these people exist, for real. She's a real person. All right. Well, that's beautiful. Hi, Micah. A true indie cast love story.

I love to hear it. Yes. Well, let's get into the meat of our episode because we have a lot to talk about. We do. In this episode, we're going to be talking about the albums of 2001. And, of course, we're talking about this because it was 20 years ago. It was. It was a nice round number to look back on a year.

And also because we need an evergreen topic. So it really checks the box. for this show that we're doing here on our special banked episode. Just a little bit of a setting the scene here. The number one album on the Paa Zopin' Jop poll for the Village Voice in 2001. Can we explain what Paas and Jop is to people who are under the age of 30 who are listening to us? For the folks at home. Yes, Paz and Jop used to be a survey of music critics.

asking them for their favorite albums of the year and their favorite singles of the year. And it was considered to be the most comprehensive look at critical consensus for a particular year. Like they would get a thousand critics or 1,500 critics from all over the country. Pre-Twitter, by the way. This was like how the discourse was going. Pre-Twitter, pre-Medic, pre-Well, there's no Rotten Tomatoes for music. But, you know, before there was an easy way. way to look at consensus. This was the way to get the snapshot of what people thought was the best

in a particular year. The number one album, according to critics that year, Love and Theft by Bob Dylan, followed by Is This It? By the Strokes and Bjorks Vespartine at number three, white blood cells, number four, amnesiac. Get to number six. Get to number six. Ryan Adams gold at number six above the blueprint. Oh, yeah. By Jay Zee. number seven. Lucinda Williams, Rufus Wainwright, man. It's kind of crazy

going down the list because like, and we're going to talk about this album, I'm sure, later on the episode, but Daft Punk's Discovery, which I think a lot of people would now say

is one of the landmark albums of that year, at number 25. Yeah. Behind new orders get ready, their comeback record, which has an amazing lead single,

Crystal. I love that song. Yeah. The rest of the album's not very good, but that single is really good. Rock is Shaq, oh my God. I think we talked about this before, but like the killers got their name from that music video. Indeed. I think it's the name on the drumhead of like a band.

Yeah, they're the fictional band in the Crystal video. And the first killer's record kind of sounds like Crystal. So it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. And yeah, like the Shins' Old Inverted World, that's at number 35. Right after spiritualizes, let it come down. And right before Black Rebel Motorcycle Clubs, BRMC. Oh, yeah.

Which I remember liking that record. I feel like that'd probably be a fun record to put on. Yeah, it's kind of an Indycast Hall of Fame candidate. Oh, totally. It's kind of funny because, like, I hate to bring this up again, but it's like if I like the new Ice Age album, kind of sounds like that. Yeah, but like a way

less catchy version. Yeah. I feel like that record is like that. Not a bad thing to shoot for, though, by the way. No, not at all. Not at all. Shout to B.R.M.R.C. That kind of like gloomy, a little bit of Jesus and Mary chain type rock. Yes. I'm always a sucker for that.

The best-selling album of 2001, Hybrid Theory by Lincoln Park, which is actually a 2000 album. That came out in October of 2000. Oh, yeah. Which I know because I wrote about it in my book. This isn't happening. Available at find booksellers everywhere.

That album came out the same month as KD-A. It did. I think it was three weeks after Kitt A. The second best-selling album also came out in 2000. Shaggy's Hot Shot. Huh. Yeah. And it was like right below hybrid theory, apparently.

I think hybrid theory sold about $4.8 million, and Shaggy sold $4.5 million. Huh. Talk about, like, I mean, where are all the shaggy, like, retrospectives? Anyone do a retrospective about Hot Shot last year? I think people, look, man, if I'm going to do one, it's going to be on boombastic. Like, I am a boombastic truther as far as shaggy is concerned. Remember that song, Angel?

Of course. Where he samples Angel of the morning. Of course. Sure. You lost me on Angel of the morning. That's the, um. I think it's Juice Newton. That is Juice Newton.

Yeah. Yeah. So we like to educate our listeners here. Noted indie rocker, Juice Newton. Yes. So instead of just kind of doing like a list of our favorite albums, we thought it'd be interesting to do different categories for this. So we can really dig into the meat of this year and maybe get to records that aren't talked

about as much, like Shaggy's Hot Shot. our first category is 2001 album you loved then and don't care about now. So, you know, last week we talked about revisionism on pitchfork, you know, people looking at opinions from 20 years ago and being like, I don't really agree with that anymore. We're doing this for ourselves. Like, what was the record you remember loving in 2001 that you never would put on now and probably don't even think about? This was a tough, like, this was a tough one to answer because I, when I, when I,

think about how I engaged with music in 2001. It was like I was a college kid who liked to get drunk and listen to whatever was on the radio. And that felt like so much more authentic than what it does now. It would be so much easier to answer this question if we were doing a 2011 episode. But like, look, I don't put as much weight on, say, ours distorted lullabies as I used to. But, you know, with a record like that, which is, you know, clearly like a hack job, clearly like a race. radio head rip off, you know, in similar way that like parachutes is, I can still like engage with that album in a sense of nostalgia. Like, to the point where I sort of wish someone would just point

me in the direction of the 2021 hours and say, here, here is what it is. Give this a little more attention than you otherwise would because you're going to love this thing in a junk food sort of way. Well, didn't you put that in the Indycast Hall of Fame? I did. So yeah, so yeah, that doesn't, that would never, that would not apply then to this. category. But I would otherwise be tempted to say something like the blueprint or, you know, avalanches since I left you, which, you know, I, that came out in America in 2000, in 2001. Also, like, I mean, I have to bring up the fact that people are like, yeah, it's the 20th anniversary of is this it when like they're celebrating the Australian release or something. But, you know,

like, with those albums, it's like, they're so canonized. And I have to ask, like, can I get anything out of these albums anymore? And the answer is absolutely. I. I play them maybe once a year, and they're still awesome. Yeah, I think the blueprint especially is like, yeah, that holds up. The one that came up to me, now this was, I would have said the exact same thing in 2018 or 19, you know, before all the stuff, the controversy happened. Look, I want to reiterate, I was a drunken college kid in his last year. And given that lifestyle I was living, like I thought Ryan Adams gold was just such a profound ass. album.

Right. It's like, yeah, man, this is like R. Van Morrison and R. Bob Dylan and such and such. And like, you know, even in the ensuing years, I could put it on when fall hits and, you know, live through 35 minutes in nostalgia. Because even when I was 21, I knew like half that album was like complete garbage. But now it's like I can't even get much out of La Cianiga just smiled. whatever Flickers of nostalgia or warmth I have

For that album, which, you know, were significant for a while I just don't feel anymore So I'm really surprised that it was at number six on the Paus and Job Are you surprised? Yeah, I am. I mean, and maybe that's just because I forget How much New York, New York got the 9-11 boost. Well, I just critical consensus has changed

because I feel like a record like that would never be that lauded in 2021. You know, like you said, it's a very retro classic rock pastiche type record. But it shows that at that time, yeah, there were a lot of critics that were into that sort of thing. Yeah. Much less so now that would be the case. And that's, again, just separate from all the allegations against him, but just the kind of artist he is. I mean, that has to be the most acclaimed record of his career, maybe even more than Heartbreaker.

I mean, I feel like in a way that record benefited from Heartbreaker, because people probably relate to the party with that, so then they compensated with gold, which is like a much weaker record overall. My choice is an album that when I put myself back in 2001, this was maybe my most anticipated album of 2001, because this was a band that was popular in the 90s, and then they went away for a long time, like five years,

And there was this mythology that built up around them where they became this really cool band that was considered to be an influence on a generation certainly of like emo and punk bands. And it was assumed for a long time that they would never make another record. And then they made a record. And it's a record that I still like. I mean, I think it's okay. But I have no urge to listen to it at all. And the disparity again between my anticipation for it in 2001 and my feelings about it in 2021 about this album and the band in general, it's pretty wide. And of course, I'm talking about the green album by Weiser.

Again, I think this, I feel like this has been lost a little bit because Weezer has been pretty prolific in the last 20 years. But there was that five-year gap between Pinkerton and the green album. where Rivers Cuomo was in his wilderness period, going to Harvard. I think he had surgery on his leg so it would be as long as his other leg. I don't know which leg he had operated on. But there was so much excitement for the record. And I think at the time, people felt a little disappointed by it because it did seem like the band operating on autopilot.

Of course, in retrospect, this is one of the best albums that they put out in the last 20 years. You know, it would actually get a whole lot worse than the green album, I think. Although Maladroit, I like more than the green album. I think that's actually... That's the amnesiac. Yes, that's a really good record. And that's a direction I always wish they had gone in more of a hard rock direction. So, yeah, but yeah, it's the green album for me, I think, would be the one that I loved in 2001, and now I don't really care about. I cannot think. I cannot think of a record that I liked and then immediately turned on more quickly than that one. And, you know, it's like a 25-minute album, which, you know, back in the CD-buying

Arrow was a real anomaly. And, you know, it's like an album meant to be appreciated immediately because, you know, the guitar solos famously mimic the vocal melodies at like every single song. And it's like, yeah, man, this is Wieser's back. I mean, granted, I love Pinkerton. But, yeah, it's like, oh, they're going to be back. there are going to be a commercial force and then I listened to it a second time like this this album actually sucks dude like it was a it was a real turning point for me as a

weezer fan or as someone who identified themselves like at you know with that whole thing I mean that's I've not listened to it in ages I feel like it's the sort of album where I can probably remember what they sound like 20 years after the fact and like I just don't know what I'm supposed to get out of this. And I do appreciate the fact that, like, Rivers Cuomo has pointed out, like, just how mercenary that album really was. I think there's an honesty in that that's

informed everything they've done in the time since. Yeah, it's honesty and also craven at the same time, you know, which, yeah, as it is, it's always a mixed bag with that band. Let's move on to our next category. This is 2001 album, you didn't care about,

then, but you love now. So the inverse of our previous, an album that maybe we didn't like then or didn't even know about. And now we really love it in retrospect. What's your choice? All right. So like kind of a secret shame or not so secret shame. You know, I probably mentioned this on Twitter. But despite the music that I listen to, you know, emo, post-hardcore, etc. I'm like not that well-versed in Fugazi. I'm kind of agnostic on them. Like, I am too. I'll say that. I'll join the chorus on that. I respect them, but I've never had a strong connection to Fugazi, really. No. And I think a lot of it comes down to the fact, you know, when we talk about my favorite album of that year, like, I've always saw them as being a band

that's like overly serious in a band that you're supposed to respect so much more than like enjoy. And there was always something like kind of intimidating about them. And I would, you know, kind of listen to their, you know, older albums and think, well, I wish they were kind of catchier, you know, maybe less stone-faced or whatever. Maybe I just needed to be there at the time. That's fine. But the argument is their last album. It's the one that their final album came out in 2001.

And I always see it on 2001 year end lists or decade retrospectives. And I would just hear it's like, no, man. Like, if you look, for your, for your taste, this is the Fugazi album. It's kind of spookier. it's more melodic. The production's incredible. The drumming is just fucking insane. They have two drummers on some songs.

And you know what? Like they were right about that one. The argument is just a, like, not only just like a incredible album, but like an incredible last album. I think that in the same way that like a moon-shaped pool kind of is, where it just kind of closes the chapter on Fugazi. And there's just, I got to say cash out before it gets loud. it sounds like the red hot chili peppers.

I swear to you, if you play that song for someone who's never heard Fugazi, they probably think it's Anthony Ketus. I mean that as a compliment. Both bands were drawing from Ganga 4. Let's just say what it is. Strangelite, also maybe my favorite Fugazi song. I've still not done the really committed deep dive. I've dabbled in the big Fugazi albums.

But like this is the one that, you know, now I can think. say like, God, man, I sort of wish I was a Fugazi person back when they were like an active concern. It's a good thing that you are on your honeymoon this week because I think the heads of like a million Fugazi fans has exploded when you compare them or how chili peppers. I think it was like a scanner situation, just simultaneous combustion. I think you make a good point about Fugazi that there's something about that band where the way that people talk about them, it just makes them seem a lot less fun than I think that the, that the, that the music is, you know, because people always talk about them in sort of moralistic terms, that they were

this ethical band, charge five dollars for a ticket, uh, you know, and Ian Mackay, if you just look at a photo of him, he looks like kind of a severe figure, you know, doesn't look like he's going to party all that much in his life, straight edge dude. Um, but I think they are, if you can get past the moralizing of some of their fans, they actually are like a really, uh, I mean, they're a great band, but they're also a fun band. There's like a lot of things in their music that are,

you could just enjoy as just like great rock music. Um, I'm going to do two choices in this category. And it's two albums that could not be any more different. Uh, the first album is toxicity by System of a Down. Yeah. When this album came out, you know,

I, I'm sure I would have associated. with like the new metal that was going on at the time and new metal in general was not a genre. I appreciated in the moment. It wasn't until like years later that I came to appreciate a lot of like the really great bands from that scene. But at the time, it was so ubiquitous and that you couldn't turn on the radio without hearing a million new metal bands. And it was just annoying in the moment. But I remember like in the early 2010s, I bought an exercise bike and system of a system of down was the exercise bike band of choice.

It was toxicity and it was also the self-titled record, the one with the big hand on the cover. Ah, yes. Both of those records were my go-to exercise bike bands, and I just came to appreciate just the insanity of that band and the innovation of that band and just like how, man, there is no band that sounds like this. You know, even in new metal, they were so unique and so much energy. so much physicality that it really was a band that I had to be physical myself in the process of listening to it in order to appreciate it. Once I got to that point, I really came to

love that record. So there's toxicity. And then on the other end of the spectrum, John Mayer's Room for Squares, which is a record that at the moment I would have scoffed at, looked at John Mayor as a pretty boy, looked at these as like wimpy soft rock songs. And look, they are wimpy soft rock songs. But John Mayer in general, like his aughts era output, I've really come around on, and I've talked about this, I think on this show and I've written about it, I won't go too deep into my whole theory about why I think John Mayer is underrated. But I will say that if you listen to Room for Squares, it's amazing how much contemporary indie rock sounds like that record. Like, there's a lot of critically acclaimed indie singer-songwriters that sound like

John Mayer in 2001. Like the gap between, say, B.B. Bridgers and John Mayer is a lot smaller than I think people who are skeptical of John Mayer would ever acknowledge. Not just in terms of the sound, but also like the lyrical perspective. Obviously, he's a guy and not a young woman, but there are similarities in terms of writing from like a wry, somewhat humorous, but also sad perspective. You know, people love to claim Cheryl Crow as an influence, but I think, John Mayer? You know, I think there were a lot of people who heard his songs on the radio when

they were five, and it subliminally influenced them in some sort of way. So, yeah, Room for Squares, I think is a secretly influential record from 2001 that you can hear strains of in modern music more than maybe people think they can. I just can't help but imagine, like, when you said, like, John Mayer is obviously not like a young woman. I can imagine John Mayer in like two 2003 and 2000 when he was like just saying the dumbest shit in interviews being like you know I like to envision myself as like a 21 year old woman when I wrote Y Georgia or something like that and yeah I mean back back back back in 2001 like I had a burned copy of room for squares from the radio station I worked at and you know it just kind of seemed like no different than say like David gray it was like a guy making sad pretty pop songs like I liked why Georgia I didn't like I didn't really like no such thing. But yeah, I mean, it was like, oh, John, John Mayer, kind of like Pete Yorne or something like that. Yeah, or cold play. And that same, like, just making pop rock for the radio.

Yeah. And that's what I was listening to back then, man. Yeah. And look, you can, like, he's definitely a cornball, but he can put together a song. Like, those songs pulled up. So, you know, I would just say toxicity and Room for Squares, put him on the same playlist, maybe alternate songs. It could be an amazing time. Our next category is most important 2001 album.

Not necessarily the best album or our favorite album, but an album that we feel from this year has had the most impact on music in terms of influence, that you could hear traces of this record in the music that we hear today. So what's your choice for this? Well, you know, I don't want to say hybrid theory because that would be just kind of reiterating the points you make in the book, this isn't happening.

And that was 2000, too. That came out in 2000. Yeah. But I mean, I think it, like, long tail, that's, like, when it had its most impact. Right. Definitely. I remember seeing the, uh, one step closer video and figured, you know, these guys are like Power Man 5,000 or like Adema.

And then they, you know, because that video is just, all, like in Park videos or like, they look like bad sci-fi, like the channel sets. I mean, is there an example now of an album being released in one year? and then becoming the best-selling album in the following year? I don't know, man. Glass animals or something? I know, but, I mean, I'm trying to think of if there's like a Taylor Swift record or something that did that. Because to me, this is almost like, you know, it's like the end of the 20th century.

Like, like, if you'd have records in the 80s and 90s that would just sell for two years and, like, and not go away. Like, hybrid theory. I imagine it would be Taylor Swift. I mean, but even her records, I feel like they seem, I'm. I'm sure they sell well, but it's not like people are still talking about them 16 months later. You know, I mean, it just seems so incredible to me that a record could have that kind of legs as late as 2001. I mean, I think Adele probably did that with a couple of her records. But I don't know.

It's incredible. And Shaggy, too, we got to shout out Shaggy. Because Shaggy's record came out even earlier in 2000. I think his record came out in August of 2000. and it almost beat hybrid theory for the best-selling album of 2001. So Shaggy and Lincoln Park just legends, bulletproof, in 2001. So as far as the thing, the album I feel like is most important looking back in now. And I'd have to say like Daft Punk's discovery.

Now, look, people give also, I just want to say first and foremost. People give like pitchfork a lot of shit for like giving like a six, eight or something like that for that album. I looked at Rolling Stone also like panned it even harder. So, you know, pull them in there as well. Baton Ratliff actually reviewed that album now that I'm looking at it. Very, very important, very important writer. But the reason I think it's like the most important, you know, not just for like what it's done to shape the critical discourse as far as like enjoying pop.

I think that Discovery kind of finished the job that Electronica was supposed to do, which is to say to have like electronic music. like techno house or whatever supplant rock music or just like work alongside pop or rock music as like festival music because I don't think you can really have

like Coachella without it. I don't think you can have EDM without it. I don't think you can really have you know just there are just so many things that spawn from that record being a hit as opposed to just them being kind of like a chemical brother's

sort of thing after homework and still being like limited to the electronic realm. Yeah, I like looking back on it like it's really I think impossible to overstate the impact that album had. Really like a long tail impact as well. I also think it's not, it's similar to the blueprint and you know, since I left you, it's now my maybe listen to like once a year, but fuck man. When I listen to that, it's like, damn, this is like the best album ever. Yeah, and again, and you make a good point about how that was not considered a masterpiece in 2001.

I think on the Pazinjop poll, it was, I think, in the 20s or 30s? 25. It was 25. Which I think people saw it, and I read the old Rolling Stone review as well, like they saw it as a bit of a letdown from homework because they thought it was, oh, this is too pop. Right, exactly. Like the Detroit or Chicago house that they were doing before. Yeah, I think people looked at it as a little. little bit cheesy in 2001.

Whereas now, I think, you know, I think out of any album released in 2001, if you were going to release a song from Discovery as a single, like, I could see it becoming a hit now. Like, it wouldn't sound out of place on the radio now in a way that I think every other 2000 album, one, every other album from this year would sound out of place, but death punk discovery wouldn't. And that really speaks highly of that record. I mean, that's a great answer, but I think an even more obvious answer is Rock in the Suburbs by Ben Folds. Yo, the title track of that is maybe the worst.

Like, I hate that song so much. I had to get a Rock in the Suburbs reference into this episode. I'll just say Ben Folds 5, there's some albums of theirs I like. The unauthorized autobiography of Reinhold Messner. That's an Indycast Hall of Famer. That could be Indycast Hall of Famer, but yeah, rock in the suburbs. Yeah, doesn't he do rapping in that song?

Yeah, because he's making, you know, he's calling a new metal guy, suburban white boys, like Ben Folds, the guy from like Chapel Hill in North Carolina. Yeah, Ben Fold's calling him out. But no, Discovery's a great answer. The only other album I think that might rival that in terms of importance is the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack. Oh, yeah.

Because I think that that record had a really, big influence on certainly country music Americana just as a genre, which was not a genre people really talked about in 2001. I mean, that's really something that's evolved to describe artists that fall

between rock and country, like a Jason Isbell or Sturgle Simpson, all of those types of people. I think that coming out of the 90s, which was the era of arena country music, Garth Brooks, Shania Twain, Billy Ray Cyrus

acts like that Oh brother Where Out thou It created this space For And I'm going to put this in air quotes Authentic and real music And that being a

Marketing position That actually people would Get into I mean we could see that also And what happened later on In the decade in indie music With I think even things like Fleet Foxes

And Bonnie Bear to a degree And certainly Mumford and Sons very indebted to that. I also feel like in a weird way, even though she's not Americana at all, someone like Adele, who really positioned herself as like the antidote to pop music.

Like, I'm a more authentic version of music. You know, I'm not a person who's just dancing around to, you know, funky beats, that whole thing. Like, that was kind of her marketing position. And in a weird way, I feel like that stems from, Oh, Brother, We're out of that as well. It's sort of like, in a way,

if you want to say Discovery is the pop trailblazer or the pop blueprint for the last 20 years, Obrother is like the anti-blueprint to that, like the counter-programming. So in that way I would say, like those two records feel linked in some sort of strange way to me in my mind. Yeah, I sometimes, I mean, I obviously remember that O Brother O'Rthow came out in 2001. I owned that in college. But to me, it just, it seems like I just associated with the Obama era for some reason. I think just everything about it, like, when you talk about like its long tail impact of like Mumford and Sons and Boni Vair and, you know, people wearing like all those like cocktail bars where like people wear like suspenders and fedoras, like that is a direct, that is like a direct line to Oh Brother Where Art Thou. Someone tweeted about that recently that, yeah, that whole phenomenon like where, we're.

You'd go to a bar and they would like, you know, spend 10 minutes on a drink. And it was some guy in suspenders and a mustache. Yeah. And by the way, that's like 2012, L.A. That still goes on in San Diego. They're a little behind. Like, San Diego is 2012, L.A., especially in North County. So I have to do a quick asterisk.

I just looked this up. That album actually came out at the end of 2000. So it's technically a December 2000 record. But again, let's do the Lincoln Park thing. It was a 2001 phenomenon. phenomenon, really. So anyway, maybe the answer's discovery. I think that is the right answer to that question, but we'll do an asterisk next to O'Brother Ra'athau in that conversation. So finally, we reach the end of our conversation here, our favorite album of 2001. And again,

we're not making a culture-wide comment with this. This is just the album that you and I like the most from this year. What's your choice? So, yeah, I'm not going to overthink this. It's Jimmy Eat World, Bleed American. And, you know, I've been open about this, but this is actually the first Jimmy Eat World out of my own. I remember that the title track was the first song or the first single. And I was just, like, completely fucking blown away by it.

Because, like, wait, this is what I want Weezer to actually sound like. And the first time I played that album in my car, I got a speeding ticket. Now, mind you, it's like in Jersey. Charlottesville, Virginia, I was probably going like 30 in a 20 mile per hour zone. But this to me is, you know, it's not my favorite Jimmy Eat World Record. That would be Clarity, which is my favorite album of all time. But as far as like what a pop rock record is, like I don't think you can really, like they're an emo band, but this is not an emo record. It's just the perfect constructed,

perfectly constructed pop rock record where it's like the first three songs are complete bangers. The fourth song is a little more chill than the six songs. the ballad, the last song's the ballad, the sequencing, the balance of the record. And my favorite part about this is that by the end of the year, we could play every song on this album on our radio station, I think except for my sundown, because that song is like super-duper-slow. It's like, it is, I just cannot think of a more platonic ideal for a pop rock album. Yeah, I mean, the side one especially, I think, is just really hard to be. beat. I mean, you've got Bleed American, a praise chorus, the middle, your house, and then sweetness

at number five, sweetness being my favorite Jimmy World song. And this would be my favorite album of theirs, I think, hands down, just because of all the bangers. I mean, what is this? Was praise chorus on the radio? I feel like it was, but it was like the last single. Like, this is like the one where they make, and we're going to date ourselves with this, but eventually, like, if you release like four or five singles from an album at that time. The last one would just be kind of, we're going to do a live video for it. It's kind of an afterthought.

It's like to just keep it going. I mean, because sweetness was the third single, a praise chorus is the fourth single. Those are the two best songs on the record, as far as I'm concerned. So, like, they saved the two best songs for the third and fourth slide, which is pretty amazing. I mean, obviously the middle is the big hit.

Yes. That was the second single. But yeah, sweetness of praise chorus, just a great, great song. songs. So for me, this is a hard choice because, you know, you've got Love and Thief by Bob Dylan, which I love. You've got white blood cells, which I love. Is This It? The Strokes. Those are all very chalky choices, a little bit boring. But I honestly love all three albums. I think they're all timeless classics. It's hard for me to pick anyone out of that group. So I'm going to go rogue

and pick the album that I'm pretty sure I've listened to the most from 2001, which is isolation drills by guided by voices. This is... Is that going rogue for you, though? Well, in terms of, like, you know, picking isolation drills over, like, love and theft might be construed as, like, or over is this it. But, you know, that is guided by voices going big, making their version of who's next, you know, ditching the lofi sound.

which they did on the previous record, due the collapse, but I think on isolation drills, they really nail it. Just an incredible big sounding record. It's like that album should have made them stars, but they were, you know, Robert Pollard, it was probably,

I'm sure he was around 50 years old by that time. Actually, no, he would have been like mid-40s at that point. Spring chicken. But this also coincides with the era when I was seeing guided by voices live a lot. So this particular lineup has always been really close to my heart. Doug Gillard, Tim Tobias,

everybody in that band at that time. You know, I was really following them like The Grateful Dead at that moment. And they played my favorite show of all time that year, December 8th, 2001 at Birdies in Indianapolis, Indiana. Just, I'll never see a show that great. Just an amazing, amazing experience.

So, yeah, All the big masterpieces from that year, you know, we talked about this earlier. Like the blueprint, I can't really say that that's, that, that, that, you know, that's still great. I still think is the sit is great. White blood cells, love and theft, discovery. They all hold up. But, yeah, isolation drills is going to be it for me. So.

Yeah. I think any guided by voices fans worth their salt would at least put that in the top 30 of guided by voices albums, you know. I think it's the best. non-90s album that they've made. But I don't know. It's got a lot of competition. A lot of competition. So that about does it for this episode of Indycast.

We're going to skip recommendation corner this week. We're just going to recommend that Ian have a good honeymoon. I hope you have a good honeymoon dude. And congratulations to you in the future Mrs. Indycast. And good luck with everything. All right. We'll be back next week with more news and reviews and hashing out trends. So long, everybody.

And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.