Indiecast - The Armed + Greta Van Fleet

Episode Date: April 16, 2021

This week’s episode of Indiecast kicks off with a discussion of the new collaborative track from Mick Jagger and Dave Grohl, a very goofy moment in rock history. The conversation then segues into the mailbag segment, which raises the question of which indie artists should follow in Taylor Swift’s footsteps to take another stab at their earlier material.The main crux of this week’s episode revolves around new albums from The Armed and Greta Van Fleet, the former of which gets their name from being the most jacked band since Manowar. The latter? Not so much.Both bands are indicative of a strange moment in the modern mainstream rock landscape, in ways that are almost diametrically opposed. The Armed evocative of the heyday of mainstream hard rock, one of the most commercially successful genres ever. Greta Van Fleet, on the other hand, are a band so preposterous that they become almost endearing and endlessly fun to engage with.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to be talking about new albums by The Armed and Greta Band Fleet. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? So, Steve, like, when the time comes for the indie cast behind the music or behind the podcast or whatever,

and that time will come. You know, there's going to be, there's going to be this point in the story where it gets into the rivalries and jealousies, like all those things that end up breaking up iconic duos such as ourselves. And, you know, it's not... Can I just say to them, I'm doing cocaine right now as we're recording this episode. So we're in the drug period of our show already. Yeah, it's like that scene, walk hard. I'm in a dark period.

And... But it's not... going to be the drugs. It's not going to be the book deals or the, you know, the musicians with whom you're on a text message basis. That's, that's not going to be it. I'm going to look back on April 12th, 2021 as the day where somebody found it, you know, they made their lives work to hack the Twitter and Instagram accounts of prominent music writers. Steve was one of them. I was not. I was just not seen as important enough to have my social media hacked on. Now, I was just, I mean, I'm sorry that happened.

I would have freaked out if that happened to me. But the fact that it was like majority music writers, it's like a preemptive strike by Greta Van Fleet Stan Army. I don't know. I mean, I don't think it was intentionally directed at music critics. Oh. Because I know the reason I got hacked is that I was sent a dean. from a prominent music writer.

I won't say who it is. But it was like an Instagram link. Okay. And I clicked it and then I got hacked immediately. It just seemed like a random fishing expedition that ended up going through. It ended up DMing just random people in my context list, some of whom were music writers, some who weren't. So I don't think it was an orchestrated attack. But yeah, I just want people to know that if you follow me on Twitter, the hacker didn't actually tweet anything out.

all the terrible takes on there are actually mine. So, yeah, I can't blame that on a hacker. I'm surprised you haven't been hacked because you've written some contentious reviews. Christ. Now, now I'm putting this energy out into the world and, uh, this was, this was a terrible bit. Like, this is, you know, I usually, this, this, this was a bad bit. No, it'll be all right. I think it'll be fine.

Yeah. Again, I think anytime, you know, it's a double-edged sword. It's bad when you feel like people are upset at music critics, but then you also feel like, well, wow, like people still care about what we think. They care enough to get angry and troll or, you know, even hack people. So it's an inspiring thing if you want to look at it from a glass half-full perspective. I was curious, I mean, you know, we had some interesting developments in the world of blues rock this week. Oh yeah. This is

this is like the so like we can't cover them all but I mean I there's so there's so many I don't even know like which right off the bat you're referring to like that's how big it was in the blues rock in the blues rock banter scene. Yeah and we haven't covered

a lot of blues rock on the show which I feel bad about but it's good that we have this opportunity. I mean I feel like we should cover like the legend first. Okay. Which is Nick Jagger And, you know, it's reductive to refer to the Stones as a blues rock band. But, you know, obviously they come from the blues.

Jagger is now a grizzled old veteran of music in the same way that you think of grizzled old blues people. And he put out a song this week with Dave Grohl called Easy Sleazy. Yes. Right? That's what's called. That definitely happened. That's the name of the song.

Yeah. And it's crazy. I mean, this is far afield from our show because we don't really delve. too much into the classic rock realm. But I am fascinated by Mick Jagger's solo career because it just seems like he has so many instances where he hooks up with famous people and they get really high

and then they do something goofy. And this goes back to the 80s when he did dancing in the street with David Bowie, that bonkers music video. Oh, yeah. That goes up through super heavy. Do you remember super heavy? I have no idea who that is.

The super group he was in? I have no idea. It was a super cute. This is a super group he was in with like Josh Stone and Dave Stewart from. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Damien Marley.

It's like the least essential super group of all time. That's, yes, I do remember that now. And then he does this Dave Grohl song. Yeah, the Super Heavy's terrible. Like they're, but they're hilarious. Definitely look them up on YouTube. But then, uh, then you have this, this song with Dave Grohl, easy, sleazy. How would you describe this?

It's sort of like a, we didn't start the fire. It's sort of like. song yeah it's kind of like a recap of like COVID times and um it it's I don't know it's like Mick Jagger kind of lending a sense of like momentum to it like oh wow Nick Jack like you have to think about like what it takes to get Mick Jagger to do anything at this point I mean seriously it's like what like think of like what like you have to how what kind of convincing you have to like hey Mick, like, I know that, like, this is probably for fun, for free. Like, just do this thing.

I promise it'll be cool. And, of course, you know, when Dave Grohl is doing that, like, I can, I imagine he's quite convincing and also, like, I'm sure that Dave Grohl did a lot of nice things for Mick Jagger at some point because that's what Dave Grohl does. And, I don't know. I think people were, like, like, so many things that have happened in the past several years. Like, I think people tried to get mad at this, like, saying it was similar.

similar to the Gail Gadot Imagine video or like we didn't start the fire. But in reality, it's just like, look, man, it's Dave Grohl and Mick Jagger doing something. Like, it's almost like something you would see on the Tonight Show. We're going to forget about it in a week. And by the way, on that note, I had this thought when this song came out of thinking about like, hey, man, remember that Food Fighters album that came out last year and like true existential crisis? Like, wait a minute, that was like two months ago. Oh, yeah, exactly.

But my sense of time has just collapsed. And I guess maybe that was the point of easy, sleazy, to just kind of make me confront the total contextual collapse of COVID times. I think it just kind of went about it in a roundabout way. Yeah, I don't know if you can blame COVID for the Foo Fighters album thing, though, because I feel like every late period Foo Fighters album feels like it came out two years ago. You know, like when that album came out that day, it felt like, oh, yeah, this album came out a couple years ago, right? vaguely remember this, even though it's brand new. I think it's just the nature of late period

Foo Fighters Records. But yeah, I'm with you on this Mick Jagger Dave Grohl song, because to me, it is just like this goofy thing that these two, you know, very rich musicians did. They got together for a day. Like I said, I think they probably, you know, smoke some weed or something, and they were just like screwing around. And they craft this song out that we're all going to forget in a week. And I know for me personally, I tend to be forgiving of musicians when they're just acting goofy. Yeah. You know, if you're just doing something kind of goofy and silly, and we're going to talk

about this later in the episode in relation to Greta Van. Yes. I think that's part of, like, why I have some affection for that band, because I think they're just sort of like this goofy, preposterous band. You know, to me, it's different from the Gal Godot thing, which I felt like was... Yeah. They thought they were, like, they thought they were, like, really bringing the world together, like that and...

Yeah, exactly. This is the sort of arrogance of, like, celebrity that you feel present in that, that don't feel like it's here. I feel like even like that lyric video that they put out. Yeah. It looks like someone, you know, from the community college shot it. You know, it's like very slapdash. So it's like, okay, they're just these two guys who I generally like. I mean, I love Mick Jagger and I appreciate Dave Roald in a lot of ways. Yeah. Um, they're just goofing off. So, you know, let them be. Um, the other big blues rock news, however, yes. Um, seems like there's a little more weight behind it. And that is, there's a new Black Keys record coming out called Delta

K. With a K. That makes it edgy. It's incredible. That's an incredible title, by the way. Cream is spelled with a K, by the way. It's K-R-E-A-M. And it's a blues covers album, which hats off to the Black Keys for doing a blues covers album in 2021. Because, you know, they must suspect that this is not the coolest thing to do in 2021 there's going to be people already, you know, gearing up to disparage it. They're doing it anyway.

They've done this before. They put out a cover's EP of Junior Kimbrough songs in the late Outs. That's actually quite good. I have to say, like, I'm generally, I like the Black Keys. I like their, especially like their OTS-era albums. I think there's some really good records from back then.

I wasn't a fan of, of Let's Rock. That was their last studio record, which also has like a pretty funny album title. Because that's in quotes. Less Rock was in quotes. And the quotes were part of... Yeah, exactly. So you had to do that awkward thing when you were writing about it where you have like quotes

and then the quotes of the out like itself. So I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah, I mean, I wonder to what degree like Dan Auerbach is invested in the Black Keys at this point because he's actually established a really good career as a producer. he's one of those people where if he's producing a record, I think he has a pretty high batting average. Yeah, he's like the kind of guy who, like, I remember, like, there was,

that he produced some record that was nominated for a Grammy, like something I had never heard of. And I think Dan Auerbach producing your blues-adjacent record is pretty much the main line to Grammy nomination. So, yeah, it's like... And I like his Lana Del Rey record. He did an ultra-violence. I think that's a good record.

And he's done some other things. that aren't just in that blues thing. He brings a very naturalistic aesthetic to his records, as you would expect. They sound very live in the studio. I'm sure using a lot of vintage instruments recording live to tape all of those sorts of things. And he's really good at that.

But yeah, I'm a little disappointed that there wasn't a honking on Bobo reference anywhere in relation to this album. I think if you make a blues covers album after honking on Bobo, I think you have to do some sort of homage to Bobo. You know, it's just the law. Well, that's where people like you and I come in

because like every single person that I know would make a honking on Bobo reference very much did. And you know what? Like, I got to appreciate the Black Keys like doing that because, I mean, when was like the last time, I mean, you really like thought about blues? Like I haven't made a Blueshammer joke

in like 10 some odd years. And that was the joke that you used to make all the time for bands like this one. Blues Hammer, of course, the fake blues band in Ghost World, the movie. I don't know when that movie came out, early 2000s.

But yeah, because I remember, like, in the 90s, like you had to have some awareness of the blues because if you read Guitar World or Guitar Player or Guitar General Magazine, like they would always throw in the Kenny Wayne Shepard or Johnny Lang. profile or like a Stevie Ray Vaughan tab alongside you know like Longview or like Buddy Holly so yeah and it's and and then recently there was like a controversy about Kenny Wayne Shepard having an honor revoke because he

uses General Lee imagery in his music and they're talking about like how wow yeah the blues community is freaking out over this and I'm thinking like how did I I've impressed that you I was not aware of this Kenny Wayne Shepard's uh Bruhaha The ties that bind from the guitar world 90s industry. But yeah, I mean, Dwayne, Derek Trucks, he's another guy who is this guy? Like, I want to read about, like, Bush or Green Day. And lo and behold, he ended up joining, like, the Almond brothers. Yeah, and he's now in the Tuxkes.

The Tideski Trucks, I couldn't say Tadesky. Tadesky Trux Band, which is like a big band in the Jam Band community. So they're waving the flag. I mean, you know, I think in terms of indie rock, the blues at this point only enters the picture as almost like an atmospheric influence. Like if you're doing something kind of spooky and ancient sounding, it has kind of a blues-like feel without actually going into like a 12-bar blues. Musical structure. I was about to say, man, like, is 12-bar blues the next indie trend? Like, is that...

Well, I wouldn't mind if people, you know, if aspiring 80 musicians listen to like some John Lee Hooker stuff, you know, which is like pretty cool, very atmospheric, great groove type stuff. I mean, there's one thing, I mean, you know, the blues thing, it has a negative connotation because of some of the people you just mentioned, this very histrionic white boy blues style that came into fashion in the 80s and 90s. And I think people listen to that and they associate blues with that. But, you know, blues, like good blues always has, like, great grooves to it, like cool lyrics, awesome vocals. There's a lot to dig into there. Hopefully the Black Keys will pay homage to that. Yeah. They just released the first single, which is Crawling King Snake.

So I think they're, like, really, I think they're getting into also one of the good things about the blues is like the pretty of, it's like not even double entendre. It's like single entendre. And, you know, that. I mean, I remember. I remember interviewing, like, Patrick Carney, like, 15 years ago. Wow. When Magic Potion came out. And we were talking about blues music, and he said, like, I hate the blues.

Like, he wasn't into the blues at all. And because he comes from more of, like, a punk rock background, that great Ohio tradition of, you know, bands like Devo and bands of that ilk. And a pair Ubu. That's the other band I was trying to think of. I think that's where, That's where he comes from. I think Alarbach is more of like the blues purest.

But I don't know. I think the Black Keys now, those guys, I think, I'm guessing they're in their mid-40s, maybe late 40s. Now they're at that time of life where maybe they are grizzled enough to do a blues covers album. I don't know. Maybe we'll talk about that in a future episode. Or maybe this was it. I guess we'll see.

Let's move on to our mailbag segment. This question comes from Andrew and Alan. Pennsylvania. Speaking of Billy Joel. Yeah. There's right there. There it is. Where they're closing all the factories down. Long time, first time. Here's a trend to hash out. Nice. The reference. Nice.

To the intro, Andrew is a real head. With Taylor Swift re-recording all of her old albums, which indie cast adjacent artist should follow her approach and take another stab at their older material. Let's consider the circumstances. Maybe you'd like to hear someone whose masters were destroyed in the universal fire, re-record their catalog for posterity. Maybe you'd like someone mired and long-running label drama to reclaim their art, like Taylor.

Or maybe you just want one of your favorite bands to use modern technology in an actual budget to make their old songs sound, well, not like shit anymore. See, Emo Revival Circa, 2011. There. There's a tip of the cap to Ian right there. There it is. Thanks for taking my question and keep up the great work. Again, that's Andrew from Allentown, Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania. Andrew, thanks for writing in. That's a great question. I'm curious to hear what you have to say about this. Just to start, I would say that I tend to not be a big fan of artists doing this. I'm the type of person where if I like a record, I'll talk myself into liking the stuff I didn't initially appreciate it about it, you know, whether it's the production style or the vocals. You know, I think this is a common thing. If you love a record, you come to love even the flaws in it. It's just you love, you love, you love, you love, you love, everything about it, which is why, for instance, like when Car Seed Headrest, who's an indie cast, adjacent artist. That's indie cast, like, center. That's not even adjacent. That's true. But, like, when he re-recorded Twin Fantasy, I thought that was an interesting experiment, but I still liked the original album more.

What's your take on this? Is there a record that you like to hear re-recorded for some reason? Yeah, I mean, it's tough to say because. when you make a record, an artist will tell you this as well, it's like a document of that time. And, you know, they can't really occupy the same headspace or obtain the same emotion. And, you know, bringing up the emo revival circuit 2011 stuff is interesting because it's on the right track. But like, by that point, like recording technology and improved so much that like that stuff doesn't really sound all that noticeably. bad to me, you know?

The production would get better, but I think it applies more to like 90s stuff because here's the thing that happened a lot in the past couple of decades where you'd get like a supposed remaster or remix or, you know, some reason to re-release an album and they would do absolutely nothing noticeable to the music itself. And that was very evident to me for one of my favorite albums where I like can seriously say the production sounds like shit. which is mineral to the power of failing. debut album came out and I believe 97 or something like that.

And I mean, we're talking about like and justice for all lack of base on that record. Like it just sounds like chewing tinfoil. And I would just because like more recent mineral stuff like the singles they released in 2019, I mean, they sound fantastic. And, you know, seeing them live in 2014, 2019, it's funny when. whenever these art, like, some old emo footage pops up on like Brooklyn Vegan or the fireside bowl. And it's like, oh, cool. I get to see like Jimmy World in 95 or Mineral 96.

And like, they sound like crap. And then you see them like later on. It's like, oh, they can play their instruments. Much better now. So that and also Sunny Day Real Estate's diary, like maybe the iconic emo album. And the production is just shit on that record. and which is strange because like Brad Woods on it. I would like to hear like, I don't know, like some remaster that like, because I think

the production on those albums like really deletes from the, like, it's actually like a flaw rather than like it's like a bug, not a feature to me. Also, just a bunch of bands that like are no longer on Spotify streaming. I think it's probably because of, I don't know, like label stuff. so aerograms, Astorian White, too. Yeah, I mean, I was trying to think of a good example of this for me, and the best thing I could come up with, and I don't think this is actually a great example,

but I always think of, like, the early strokes records, Is This It and Room on Fire in particular? They have this weird vocal effect on Julian Casablancus's voice, where it sounds like a little bit distorted, which doesn't really exist on, like, the later records. And I always feel like that's, a little distracting when you listen to those records. So I guess I would like to hear a version of those albums where Julian

Casablanca just sang into a regular microphone without a fax. And you could hear his voice come through more clearly. Not a great answer, but that's really the first thing that came to mind. That would be interesting to listen to, but also it would be like, it's like, how could you get rid of that? like the, that's like a load-bearing production detail. Like, I, I, I think of like that Simpson's joke, like, back in the day where, like, Ned Flannett is like, you know, it's like, I like that new Woodsey Allen movie,

except for the nervous guy who's always in it. Like, it's just something, like, the distorted microphone, like, that is the strokes in a way. But, I mean, I would just hear. But again, it's not a great answer. But, like, I think it goes back to what I originally said at the top where, the records that I really love, the things about it that maybe I didn't vibe on initially, I tend to talk myself into liking it because it's just part of the package. It speaks to what you're saying about records being a document of their time.

Where if an artist goes back and they re-record something they did 20 years earlier, it does feel like a little bit like when, I don't know if you watch like any of those Saturday Night Live like anniversary specials like where they had old cast members come back. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like Dan Aykroy doing Wild and Crazy Guy again, and he's like 70 years old now. It just feels like a little embarrassing to see that. And so, again, I'm generally not a fan of that. Beyond it just being an interesting experiment to be like, well, what if they did this?

You know, that might be interesting. But I don't see that ever overtaking the original article. Even like that Mineral album you were talking about, if they re-recorded that, you would probably still prefer the original one just because it's them when they were at that period of time. It just wouldn't be the same thing if they re-recorded it. What I would be open for is if the strokes like 10, 20 years from that when they're in their like fat out of its phase, I kind of did like these orchestral like Vegas versions of business. That would be interesting to me.

Or I mean, that's something I could see the killers like actually doing. Yes. I think, like, the killers doing a Vegas album. The S&M, the Metallica from Vegas. Right, exactly. Bring in, you know, the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra and have them do, you know, these lush versions of, somebody told me in the right side.

Actually, that could... That sounds pretty fucking awesome. I know. I'm talking myself into this idea. I was, like, making fun of it at the beginning. And by the end, I was, like, kind of into it. Let's move into the meat of our episode. And this episode really has some serious.

meat. Yeah, it's good. It's good word. We're going to talk about the armed first. Yes. This is a band. They have a record out today. It's called Ultra Pop.

And if you're not familiar with them, this is a hardcore punk collective from Detroit. They formed in 2009. It may be formed isn't quite the right word to describe what this band did when they came together because it's not a band in the traditional sense where you have a fixed lineup of people who are always working together. I mean, you really have different people coming in and out. I guess there's like a pretty consistent core at the center. But, I mean, isn't the thing with this band is the sort of like mysterious nature of their lineup?

And even when I was interviewing them, I'll give a little plug for this interview I did with apparently members of the armed for stereo gum about their diet and workout regimen. But the thing is, like, people were immediately saying after the fact, oh, that's not actually Adam. That guy is Tony. Clark Huge, we know who Clark Huge is. But the thing with the armed is that they've always had a sense of mystery about, like, who's actually in the band. Or, like, there have been rumors that Tony Hawk is bankrolling them or that, like, Andrew W.K. is involved because of the Detroit connection and also the sound of the music. Or that Kurt Ballou, who's in Converge and produces a lot of bands, is actually a one-man band. or it's an ad agency,

which is something they play up a lot with the fan base who's kind of in on the joke. So yeah, it's just, you know, that stuff is super interesting and always was in a way more interesting, not more interesting in music. The last album Only Love,

it was totally a sick record, but it also makes it a little difficult to connect with it because I think particularly, in, I don't know, 2021 to be someone who's in the discussion of like, you know, in the A list. Like, it has to be someone who you can relate to,

identify with, you know, follow along. And, but I think with this album Ultra Pop, they kind of embraced the idea. It's like, okay, we're going to do a, we're going to make our quote, breakout album, but like also play into the idea that it is a breakout album, almost in like a tooth that like almost not a sellout sort of way but it's like okay here's our pop album we're going for this you guys should take this seriously and you know it's like a comment

it's like a meta comment on like a crossover record yeah exactly you know like and and obviously you you see that in the album title that's been true in some of their music videos we should say too you you talked about how you interviewed them about their workout regimen we should mention that this band is extremely jacked. Yeah. And I think I made this joke in a previous episode that I think they're called the armed because they have huge arms. Yeah, they're... Like,

they're the most muscular band. I was trying to think of like the last band that was this muscular. The best example I could come up with was this band, Man of War the 1980s. Are you familiar with them? Oh, yeah. Of course, man. Like Viking metal band. Yeah, of course. And like, they're on their

album covers and they're all you have huge pectorals and you know enormous arms they're really the only band i could compare the arm to in terms of like their physicality yeah and it's always weird like i mean it's always a bit awkward to talk about like a band's new look or whatever because you get into some dicey territory but like these guys are just straight up yeah we went on like we want to look like superheroes because like that's just what this music is about like to i thought it sounds like american gladiating forming broken social scene. And also, like, you, like, in the video, the big thing about the first video for all

futures was that, like, you saw what was ostensibly the actual lineup. And they all look just way not. They look like the people you've seen in previous pictures, but they also just look like super ripped. And they're doing like 4,500 to 5,000 calories a day. Like Clark Hughes is a bodybuilder who also plays since. It's just like a fun band to talk about, which I think. think is also kind of new or just a breath of fresh air in the narrative of 2021.

Right. Yeah. I mean, there's something, you know, they definitely skirt the line between making, I think, pretty interesting in progressive music and also just being totally ridiculous. Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned, like, that broken social scene example, like, sort of like a hardcore punk maybe version of that. Like, when I listen to this record, I get some, like, pretty hate machine era 9-inch Nails vibes.

To some of it, there's a real sort of, like, industrial pop vibe to the songs, along with the hardcore punk sound. Like, it's a very furious sounding record, you know, very blistering, you know, rapid pace. But there's also, like, pop hooks, like, deeply embedded in the noise, which is, you know, something that can be pretty thrilling when the record comes together. It also made me think of, like, the Go team. Oh, yeah. if they did like crank, they did it like crank for three days and then made a record. Yeah.

Like, so again, all these things I think are to convey the sort of, I think hysterical nature of this record. It's like very high. It starts at 11 and it goes to like 31. It's very nonstop. And you brought this up. Like we were talking about this record,

you know, before the episode and where this kind of fits in with music right now. I mean, you feel like this has a potential to be like the breakout record of this kind in 2021. I don't even know if like breakout is the right word, but it seems like it's going to be the, like, I think in in these times you get like one record per year that like actually rips and is like elevated by consensus. Now it could also be, I think it reminds me a bit of like daughters in 2018 that album you won't get what you want, which. was kind of in certain circles, like really, and like Daughters got super big after being this like Providence noise band that was just really underground for a while. But, you know, I think this is like the one heavy hard rock album that that's going to get elevated because like there was a great, you know, I thought about, you know, just kind of given the music I listened to. there was a great medium post or a substack post done by Alex Rudenshold.

He's someone in a band called Infant Island who plays, you know, Screamo, for lack of a better term, I love that band. And, you know, they wrote about just how in, like, they are someone who's super obsessed with like Metacritic and album of the year scores and pitchfork lists and such. And they, they recognize that out of the entire, you know, out of, out of all the albums released last year, like the only ones that, the only heavy music that was really recognized

was like Tool, Sonno, and like Death Heaven. And like Def Heaven's pretty much been the only heavy rock man, but the exception of maybe like Blood Incantation, who have, who are like, not niche in a way. Like they are a band that can be,

uh, discussed as if they were, I don't know, like Japanese breakfast or something along those lines. Um, And I don't know, like, I don't know if the arm gets there, but it makes me wonder, it's like, is there like an audience for heavy music anymore? Because you would think, like, these are angry times. Like, where is the angry music to reflect that? And, you know, but I'm like up on this music. I'm wondering, like, what you might think is someone who's like more, I guess, I don't know, heavy music adjacent. Yeah, I mean, I really enjoy this record a lot. And I appreciate, too, the meta quality of it, the idea that this is a record that's commenting on crossover albums from underground acts. And it's sort of that, although not really.

Like, this is not like their black album. You know, this is not their ducky. You know, there's not, like, obvious pop hits that someone who doesn't like this kind of music is, is going to like. I still think that this is a pretty uncompromising record in a lot of ways. I mean, my theory on this is that, you know, in the 80s, 90s and even like early aughts, that there was this phenomenon of like legitimate crossover records, like, where you would have a punk band or a metal band that got really popular in their scene, and then

they would decide at some point that they're going to make a record designed to get played on the radio and on MTV and to appeal to people who don't normally listen. to punk or metal. And then at some point, like the avenues that existed that allowed bands to make that crossover went away. And bands responded by basically making albums that would appeal to people who already like that kind of music. So, like, if you're an emo band, you make emo records for emo fans.

If you're a metal band, you make records for metal fans. And I think the way that manifests itself most obviously in a lot of these albums is in the production and in the vocal. style. Like, if you listen to metal records now, you know, there's not a lot of, like, melodic singers in, like, the most sort of critically acclaimed or, like, loved metal bands. It tends to be people who are screaming a lot. And I think that's also true in emo. Like, the emo vocal style has, in some ways, become, like, even more exaggerated now. Like, if you listen to, like, younger bands, like, they're not trying to sound like Patrick Stump, for instance, or, you know,

like the mainstream singers that you, of bands, you know, bands like Fall Out Boy and, or maybe they would if they could, you know. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, so I just think that, there is this sort of like

feeding the fans because that's what's available to you. And it's not really speaking any ill of those bands artistically. I think there's still like a lot of great bands there. But it just, I think, tends to isolate those groups more. Yeah. It's sort of a self-perpetuating thing. So to me, that's why they don't maybe end up being in the consensus conversation when we talk about the best albums of the year because most critics don't follow those genres very closely.

And if you aren't enmeshed in the world, it can be harder maybe to get those records, you know, to get them in terms of understanding them. And this is all stuff that Alex mentions in this essay, which I'm going to post the link to this substack when it eventually goes live. because I think everyone should read it to get a sense of what it's like to be not just a band or listener in that realm, but to be in the business as well. And just talking about how the doors feel more closed and like the fractionation like you were saying of fan bases and so forth. And I mean, it's like what can, you know, what like there are plenty of, I would say, niche type electronic albums or jazz albums that get, you know, elevated with similar fan bases. I'm just wondering what it might take for like metal or something along those lines. But you know what? Maybe it's just like the natural progression of things.

And look, my experience with this record is just going to be listening into my headphones and working out trying to look a little bit more like Clark Huge anyway. So maybe that's besides the point. You know, it's interesting. And this does lead into our next topic here. Yes. What I'm about to say is that if you look at the history of popular music of like last 50 years or so, Like one of the most popular and commercially successful genres of all time is like mainstream hard rock.

You know, that covers Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Van Halen, Guns and Roses, Metallica, even like Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, all those bands. And that genre virtually doesn't exist anymore. Outside of, say, maybe like, I guess, Avenged Sevenfold and Five Finger Death Punch bands like that. The era of a dead man. Yeah, which are. certainly, you know, they certainly have an audience, but it doesn't feel the same as those other bands that I mentioned, you know, who were so huge. And, like, had a place in the middle

of the conversation about popular music that the modern popular hard rock bands don't. Yeah. When there, when the days they're confused of the 2020s or the 2010s comes out, like, they're not going to be listening to like theory of a dead man or Greta Van Fleet, you know. Right. But it's interesting to be. me, though, that there isn't more of an attempt to, I guess, revive that, just because it was so huge for so long. You got White Reaper, I mean. And I guess the assumption is that it doesn't, that that audience isn't there anymore.

But I mean, Greta Van Fleet, you know, transitioning into this part of our episode, I mean, they are one of the more prominent examples of that trying to be revived in some sort of way. I guess we should give like a little bit of background on this band. Yeah. This is a band from Detroit. They formed in the early 2010s when they were very young. I think all the members are still in their early 20s at this point. They became pretty popular over the course of a couple EPs that they released in the late 2010s.

And then they put out their debut full-length album, Anthem of the Peaceful Army in 2000. 18. And this is a band that certainly pre-pandemic seemed like they were poised to become an arena band. Like they were a band that could play multiple nights in big cities playing like large theaters, basically, you know, two, three, four thousand seat theaters. And that was when they only had two EPs out. You know, so they had like a pretty big live audience already. One of their EPs from the fires, like won a Grammy for Best. rock album in 2019. So they've definitely had some buzz behind them.

I'm curious to see if they can continue that trajectory after touring comes back. Because it has been a while since they put out a record. They have a new album out today called The Battle at Gardens Gate. And I reviewed this album for Up Rocks. And I basically, and I joked about this in the lead of my piece, that I consider myself a defense attorney for Greta Van Farms. because this is a band, and I call them this in my piece, I think that they're the most critically reviled young rock band in America.

Absolutely. I read an interview in The Guardian that they did recently, and this was like a nominally positive piece, and the writer of that piece compared Greta Van Fleet to an ejaculating hyena. And that was someone who likes that. Okay, how do they know what that sounds like? Well, exactly. That does beg the question.

Like, how do you know what an ejaculating hyena sounds like? Apparently the belief is that hyenas sound high-pitched and that if they were to have an orgasm, it would sound even more high-pitched. That was my thinking when I read that piece. Robert Plant would probably take that as a compliment, though, in 1970. Well, you know, he, the lead singer, his name's Josh Kiske. I believe I'm pronouncing his last name correctly. I could be wrong.

He gets compared to Robert Plant a lot because he has this very high operatic, very dramatic sounding voice. In my review, I likened him to Getty Lee yelling at his kids in the backseat of a car while on a road trip. Because Getty Lee's voice is even higher than Robert Plant. And the Gertilvan Fleet guy, he pushes the hysteria of that voice to an even greater degree. I don't know how you feel about this band.

Personally, you know, look, they are a dumb band. They're preposterous. They do a lot of silly things. They have terrible taste. in many ways. But I also feel like there are a few bands that I enjoy

writing about more than this band. Their ridiculousness to me is endearing especially since you know, it's not as if these guys are like

a toxic band. You know, they're not like a sexist band. They never sing about sex at all. It's always about like... Yeah, which is really the weirdest

part about it because like, yeah. How do you like want to be led... I think that's where the Getty Lee comparison makes a lot more sense

because it's like, you listen to Led Zeppelin and it's like, yeah, let's just drop all the songs about like sex, you know, and just leave the ones about like Lord of the Rings, you know? Yeah, exactly. All the songs are about being on the road or being in a desert and like fighting the devil to death, you know, like it's songs like it's like all these epic journeys. And like this new record, I mean, my criticism of it, among other things, is that, you know, every song tries to be this enormous rock epic.

Like, there's no sense of dynamics on this record. Like, I wish someone would play them the second side of Ledz Up on three. So they could maybe play some, like, acoustic songs just to break up this, this, like, nonstop, epic, you know, ginormousness of this record. But, you know, the thing with this band, I just find them, I find their earnestness endearing. You know, even though there's not a lot of intelligence in this band, the silliness of it. it's just entertaining to me. And also the fact, too, that the fact that this band exists in 2021, I think, is so bizarre. You know, because they do not fit in anywhere.

And there's something almost courageous about the fact that, like, when you listen to the second record, they do everything that people made fun of them for on their first album, and they just double down on everything. You know, there's no attempt to sound modern on this record. There's no attempt to be... Greg Hurston produced this, so... Well, he co-wrote a couple of songs on the record. Those songs are pretty bombastic.

They're not... They don't sound like the shins or like the foo fighters on those songs. They're like a little more pop-friendly, but they're still probably six or seven minutes long. One of the Greg Hurston songs is called Light My Love. And I said that it sounds like Axel Rose singing a Celine Dion power ballad on the Titanic after it's been lit on fire by dragons.

Like, that's how I would describe that song. It's very epic sounding. And again, like, if you were clowning on this band after their first record, you're not going to change your mind with this record. There's no concessions to the criticisms on this record, which I kind of respect. I mean, you and I have talked a lot about muse on this show,

and I think... Yes, we have. Grand Van Fleet, to me, slots in, like, the same lane of just over-the-top, ridiculous, bombastic rock bands that are totally out of fashion and for that reason are kind of lovable to me. Yeah, and I think with Mews,

like Mews, I would say even from the jump they've had somewhat of a self-awareness or a sense of humor about what they do, like Reda Van Fleet, the thing about like this style of music is that for people to kind of accept it, it needs to be like sort of the darkness

where it's like clearly like a piss take on the genre, but also like the darkness for pretty genius songwriters, at least that first album. But with Greta Van Fleet, it's like they really do think that they think like hippies, which makes it a lot easier to clown them. They really, I think when I listen to their records, I feel that they've absorbed this idea that like the Robert Plant, like, I'm going to get the line wrong.

Like, whatever happened to laughter, like, what's the line? Steve, you got to help me out on this one. Does anyone remember laughter? That's it. That's the one. And yeah, it's like, it's like Led Zeppelin, but like not over the top enough, like, which puts them in this very precarious space, which makes them extremely easy to clown. And I think that we'd be remiss to not mention that Greta Van Fleet is the recipient of the single most famous, I guess, for lack of a better term, a pan of the past decade, which they got like, I can't remember another album that got like a sub to score on pitch. fork, but Greta Van Fleet did.

And, you know, it was kind of, it was kind of an event, but like not the way some pans are where you get like, I don't know, the Stan Army coming for the writer. Like Greta Van Fleet, like you were saying, like their fan base is like kind of harmless in a way. You know, like it's like you can, they thread the needle of a band that you can pan and like not feel like, okay, I'm going to have to go on private anymore because it's, you know, like what, what are Greta Van Fleet fans going to do that, like, will make you look bad? It's like, in a similar way, like, if you, like, criticize a tool record, their fans are just going to, like, come at you in a way that makes it them look like the ridiculous one and

not you. So, I mean, and with seeing that, like, don't get me wrong, I thought the first record, like, was, I would never voluntarily listen to it. But I also wonder if they could perhaps, like, I always listen to, like, harder rock music and think, you know what? Everyone wants to be Nirvana. Everyone wants to be the breeders. Everyone wants to be like whole.

Who's going to be like Bush or Stone Temple Pilots? Like who are going to be that band that just embraces their corporate rockness and like just puts together a greatest hits or in the alternative reveals themselves as a band capable of making their tiny music? I mean, can Gretavena Fleet make a tiny music? You know, that's a good question. I don't think that their first two records are nearly as good as like the Stone Temple Pilots.

Oh, hell no. No, don't. And I just want to be very clear about that. Yeah, I mean, and also I feel like we should shout out friend of the podcast, Jeremy Larson, who wrote the pitchfork review of Anthem of the Peaceful Army and did a great job. His review is really funny and insightful. I can't really disagree with a lot of things he said in that review, especially if you're going to write like an institutional voice.

If you're going to write from like the perspective of a pitchfork ruling on this record, all the things that he wrote in there, I think you have to make those observations. I think for me, I have the luxury of not writing from an institutional voice. I write from a voice that is very much based on my own biases in soft spots. And I think in acknowledging all the weaknesses of this band, I still find them more likable than like a lot of bands out there because of their silliness.

And again, I feel like what they're doing, it's so out of fashion. and by now they know that they're going to get roasted and they're still not making any concessions to that I have a weird respect for them sticking to their guns I mean I think it's generally true that if you're a band who's reviled at the beginning of your career and you can just stay the course and be yourself long enough someone's going to come around and appreciate what you do

I mean even a man like kiss for instance people sing the praises of kiss at this point because they just did what they did and they were dumb and they wrote big dumb rock songs and they weren't swayed by the criticism that they received and if you just stay the course and you be yourself yeah people will come around and they'll give you at least grudging respect so you know I think the arc of history trends towards things that were popular so right exactly So I'm curious to see how this translates if they continue on their trajectory of being popular or if maybe the success of that first record and the early EPs was this blip that will go away.

I don't have a sense of that yet. It's hard to know because no one's touring. And I think that's such a big part of their story, like their draw as a live band. But, you know, this record, like I said, they're not. not backing down. You know, they might be trying to get an even worse pitchfork score with this album. So, you know, I look at it as like a dare. It's like, yeah, we're daring you now to give us bad reviews at this point.

So, you know, hat tipped to Greta Van Fleet. All right, we've now reached a part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about a record that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so I'm going to go off a little bit from my usual beat and bring up a record from this artist called CFCF. It's a Montreal producer named Mike Silver. They've been around for, you know, a decade or so.

Always in the periphery of electronic music. Like I've loved a couple of the remixes they've done. And the albums are interesting. And the one they put out most recently is called Memory Land. And this is a concept record that overtly calls back to a period in the late 90s, like kind of electronica, but even like post-electronica, where it started to kind of feed into the rock music a bit. And if the words, uncle, science fiction means anything to you, I think you'll be, yeah,

I think you'll be interested in this album. It's like an IndyCast Hall of Fame record. Oh, absolutely. And another interesting thing is that the artist Mike Silver, he brought up that, like, back when he was listening to this music, like he made Winamp Skins as art for this music. Like if you go on his Twitter page, like you can see what he did. But, you know, and it's 70 minutes long. There's one song with the band No Joy that sounds like Apex Twins Window Licker.

There's some square pusher. But it's also this electronica nowadays gets kind of a bad rap because, you know, it's seen for what it is, which is like a lot of, you know, white sort of rockish bands taking sounds that were developed in Detroit, New York, Chicago, and presenting it to suburban kids such as myself. And yeah, you know, when you get to the next level of electronic music, you discover the roots of it. But like, these were still very important gateway bands. And, uh, CFCF recognizes that and just kind of pays tribute to this kind of kitschy style of music. And one of the most interesting things about is that it got a 7.0, uh, at pitchfork. And

CFCF was like super thankful for that because they said, I wanted to make a kind of bloated. CD era erratic album that just had way too much material. And so it's really cool to kind of see that as the goal. But if, I mean, if the idea of, you know, window liquor gone shoegaze is interesting to you, then this one is worth checking out. It's really an hour worth kind of sifting and streaming through. I like it. Another, like, meta album in this episode. Very cool sounding.

I want to talk about a band called Silver Synthetic. This is a band from New Orleans. You know, as regular listeners of the other. this podcast, no, I am duty-bound to report the latest in, like, good Chugel music. And this is the Chugel record of April right now. It's a self-titled debut. Like I said, this is a band from New Orleans. The members include people who are in Jeff the Brotherhood, as well as this garage punk band called The Bottom Featers. And I'm not going to go long on this record, because I feel like if I say Chugel, people know whether they are into it or not.

I know that there's a portion of our listeners who are immediately on board, and there's another portion who probably turned off this episode as soon as I said Chugal. All I'll say is that the first song on this record sounds like a country rock version of Sweet Chain by the Velvet Underground. So if I say that, you know if you are into it, and you also know if you're not into it. So I guess that would be my review of this record. If you like the idea of songs that sound like Loaded Era of Velvet Underground with like really cool, guitar solos. And you basically just want to hang out in your backyard this weekend and have like a cookout

and maybe have a beer or two. Put this record on. It's going to be perfect, a perfect soundtrack for an early spring afternoon. Again, that's silver synthetic by the band, silver synthetic. I think that wraps up. Chugal, baby. I think that wraps up this week. This week's indie cast.

Thank you again for listening. We'll have more reviews, news, and hashing out. trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.