Indiecast - The Best Albums Of 1998

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Steven and Ian are hopping in the time machine this week. They're heading back one quarter-century to 1998, a fascinating year when artists were imagining the sound of the future and combining rock with jazz, hip-hop, and electronic music like never before. For Steven and Ian, it was a time of attending college and getting high while playing video games. You could be amazed by simple pleasures like, "Whoa, Richard Ashcroft is collaborating with DJ Shadow! I'm gonna listen to that after I go see Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck in Armageddon!"Before that nostalgic trip, Steven and Ian answer listener questions, including one from an actual Gen Z listener! (Friendly tip: If you self-identify as a Gen Z listener, you will definitely get your email read on the show.) She wants to know 1) what the guys think of elaborate arena shows? 2) what they think about checking out setlists before showtime? 3) what they think about Matty Healy pretending to be drunk on stage? Their answers may not surprise you!Finally, they get down to ranking their favorite albums of 1998. They each picked five albums, and they had two in common. Can you guess which ones? If you said the Godzilla soundtrack, you would be wrong!In Recommendation Corner, Ian goes to bat for String Machine and NATL PARK SRVC while Steven recommends Cat Power's new Dylan covers album and the latest from Nashville guitarist Daniel Donato.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 163 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about our favorite albums of 1998. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I wonder if he has $98.4 million to help keep the sphere open. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? I mean, I don't have $94 million, or $98 million right now. But we've always talked about the possibility of doing on location recordings. And maybe this is where we follow through on Indycast Fest. We bring out all of our favorites. You know, you got Wild Pink, Young Jesus, empty country, gang of youths. And just do a little fundraiser. Help out, you know, some people in need.

Yeah. So you think that Uprox is going to pony up $98.4 million so that we can do this live remote music festival? Maybe they will. 20 at least. I'm since like 20, 25 for starter cash, you know? I mean, really, I mean, because Uprox is owned by Warner Music, so maybe Warner Music would be the ones to pony up that money. I think it can happen.

We're making the appeal right now. We're making a public appeal for us to do a live remote music festival from the sphere. I think that'd be amazing. Just to provide a little bit more background here, there was a story this week from the Las Vegas Sun. which reports that the fiscal quarter, the latest fiscal quarter for the sphere, resulted in an operating loss of $98.4 million, which sounds like a lot of money to me. That sounds bad. Yeah, it sounds bad.

Now, to put this in context, the fiscal quarter ended September 30th, and the first show at the sphere was September 29th. That was the beginning of the U-2 residency there. So, like, we don't have, like, a ton of things happening at the sphere before the end of this quarter. So I would imagine that the next quarter will be better than this one. It can't be worse. Well, you know, you never know. It could be worse. But apparently, you two, you know, they played two shows during the fiscal quarter that just ended.

And they made $4 million, like, in that time. So it could have been over $100 million that they lost, but you two, they kicked in some $4 million there, got it under $100 million in losses. Apparently the CFO already left, too, which it's noted in the story is not related to anything, any of these losses or anything bad there. I don't know. I hope the sphere doesn't fail. I'm not cheering. I'm not one of these Schadenfreude people who want the sphere to fail. In spite of the people behind it, you know, the James Dolans of the world, the Michael Rapino's, you know, very, you know, stock, oily music industry characters involved in this thing.

I don't know, though. I still would like to see this live on just because it's such a ridiculous thing. And I've been there, you know, I saw the first U2 show there. I wrote about it. It's a cool venue. But yeah, I mean, it does seem like the least practical music venue ever created. So I don't know. Hopefully this doesn't pretend doom for them.

But it may very well be doing that. I don't want it to fail. I want it to continue on, but be weird. Like, I really want to see J.D. in the straight shot do, like, a year-long residency with, like, one of the backing guys from the Eagles opening. It's just such a, I mean, so many things are moving to Las Vegas right. now. We have like several sports franchises doing that. And we're hearing about like how Las Vegas and Utah are like the future of America. And I don't know. I think the sphere at the very least needs to exist as a symbol of like 2020 to 2023 boom time. So yeah, I'm hoping this isn't grand open and

grand closing. Yeah, we'll see what happens. Speaking of grand closings, our fantasy draft officially came to an end this past week. For those of you paying attention, and I know that you all are, you're on the edge of your seats. We had an incredible situation going into our last matchup where we were tied,

going into the last matchup. I still can't wrap my mind around that. That seems like such a mathematical anomaly that that happened, but it did, through four albums for both of us, leading up to the final album matchup, it was Taylor Swift,

1989 Taylor's version for you. I had Marnie Stearns, the comeback kid. And really, that album title proved to be prophetic, I think, for me. Because we had Taylor Swift,

the obvious favorite in a matchup like this, and initially her metacritic score was like 100. And I'm sweating bullets. I'm like, I'm not going to even make this close. But then her score fell to 90, still a very good metacritic score. And then Marnie Stern,

and look, I have to shout out my middle-aged music writer homies for this one too, because you made this a real battle. The metacritic score for Marnie Stern was 85. Solid numbers. Obviously, yes, obviously I fell short, but I'm calling it a moral victory. I feel this is a moral victory for me. I feel like to lose only by five when you had Taylor Swift in the anchor slot and I had Marnie Stern. Again, it just speaks to the power of middle-aged music writers who are our people. Yes. Our people stepped up.

They gave this Marnie Stern record really good reviews. So I didn't win, but I'm calling it a moral victory. Yeah, I still like your strategy with this pick. It's like, I mean, if we're going to. to put it in fantasy football context, like going on the waiver wire to find whichever defense is playing the Giants in any given week. It's just like easy points. Similar with like finding the, like, our boyfriend Thomas reviewed it at AllMusic Guide. It got like an A.0 headline, no, not a best new music at pitchfork. Like this is the stuff we could have seen from a mile away. So as far as,

you know, what to the victor goes to spoils, I think getting to choose like 1998 as a subject for this episode. I'll take that as my prize, you know, because that was, we were talking about should we do 2003, 2013, 1998. We're seeing a lot of 25th anniversary releases coming out in recent time, so I figure we'd celebrate, you know, the year I spent my first year in college and therefore the most important year for music of the entire 20th century. And it just occurred to me that 1998, it's the inverse of 1989. So it all kind of comes together. Wouldn't that be 98, 91? What? I'm talking about 98 and 89.

You know, I'm just talking about the end numbers. We're not including 19. Gotcha. You know, just, just give it to me. Just give this to me. This is something I just came up with. Before we get to 1998, because we're going to have a lot to talk about there, we both picked five albums that we love from that year.

I ranked my albums. Did you rank your albums? I did. Okay, good. And we don't know what the other one picked. That'll be a really fun discussion talking about 1998. Before we get to that, let's do some mailbag emails here. It's great to hear from our listeners.

Even this week when we had some emails complaining about our last episode, there was some upset people that we did not name the band that we talked about not enjoying. There was some upset people. They didn't like that. They felt it was a frustrating thing, which I understand. we're probably going to talk about that band at some point, and I think fairly soon. So I'll just leave that there. But to all the people who are upset, I understand, but it's also kind of funny to me that we didn't name the band.

It's perversely funny that we talked about this band and didn't name them. You want to read our first letter? This is not about that. I think they mentioned it a little bit at the beginning, but this is not complaining about us not naming the band. this letter. Yeah, it's like TIs I'm talking to you where we don't name the actual person. And that's all the more powerful for it. So this comes- Exactly. Like, if you had just ripped that band, by the way, like, no one would have cared.

Yeah. The fact that we didn't name it made it way more interesting. Although... I'm just saying that. Although, I did get some text messages and DMs from people who knew exactly who we were talking about. Yeah, yeah, I feel like it was kind of obvious. If you know us, yeah. Yeah, but anyway.

All right. This comes to us from Mike from Kansas City, Missouri, and just giving a little name drop here, close to where Kevin Morby and Waxahatchy, you know, she does have a name, own house. Ian and Stephen, I think you should take some time to flex a little. I agree. In your last episode, you went down the path of how you can negatively impact a band through coverage. What about the other side of the coin? Let's hear about a time when you had an impact in a band's trajectory. Maybe you were first on the artist or maybe you just did coverage that put them on people's radio. Either way, let's not do the humble dance. I can hear Ian right now questioning his impact with a view with something like technically it was so-and-so on his substack that really broke the band. This mailbag is simple. Can we hear your flex for a minute?

Mike from Kansas City. All right, so Mike is asking, are there instances of bands or artists that we feel that we played a role in exposing them to a larger audience? I am going to be a little humble before I talk about this because it does feel weird to take credit for a band's success. I do think that that's wrong for any music critic to do, even if you were a booster of that band, even if you wrote about them early on. I think in the grand scheme of things, any artist that breaks through in a big way, it means that they have either been put on a really good playlist somewhere or they've been embraced by radio. Like those are the things that really matter, I think, in terms of reaching critical mass. Having said that, there are a couple artists that I would say, like, oh, I think I helped them along early on.

One would be gang of youths. I think I was on them pretty early. I'll take some credit for that. I feel like I was pretty early on Big Thief back in the masterpiece days when they weren't being written about a ton. I wrote about that record. I put it in my top ten list. I'll take a little bit of credit for that But the band that I think

I feel the most Not responsible for But I would Maybe take the most credit for And again this is a small amount of credit Not a huge amount of credit But more credit relative to other groups I'd say the war on drugs

I was on the war on drugs early on Writing about them Going back to the Future Weather EP This is pre-slave ambient interviewing Adam for the AV club. And I feel like I've heard from the band internally that they feel like that is true as well. So I will say the war on drugs for me would be the band.

What about you, Ian? Yeah, Mike's got me dead to rights. I know deep in my heart that some of the writing I've done has made a difference. I've seen stuff I've said on Twitter being used in a press release, which always makes me feel kind of uncarned. comfortable because you never want to feel like responsible for a band's ultimate success. Like, you know, you can say things, you can praise them, you can write good reviews,

pump them up. But then when it, when it crosses the line, when it feels like, oh, like my, you know, reputations at stake or I'm invested in it, it's a little uncomfortable. But, you know, at this current moment, I appreciate Mike giving us the opportunity to gas ourselves up. I'm in the process of, you know, getting a book proposal off the ground, and a big part of that is trying to convince people that, like, I'm a good investment. So I got to kind of pipe it up for myself. And so as far as that goes, it was really interesting to see Patrick Lyons, a friend of the pod's 10-year anniversary piece on The World's A Beautiful Place, whenever, if ever,

which singled out this review I wrote. It was like a 7.8 in the C-slot at Pitchfork as not just like a big deal for the band but for like emo as a whole. I found Dan Ozzy, another friend of the pod, saying that a lot of what happened at that time was like driven by the personal taste of one critic. Again, this music was happening for like five years and more before like I started paying attention to it. But you know, like I guess I can not take credit, but say that like the stuff I did then like made a difference. And I think that's like kind of my ultimate legacy at this point as a writer. You know, it's like, oh, this guy actually paid attention to balancing composure in 2013. So, you know, I think my writing didn't make these bands popular.

But at the very least, I think it put them in a discussion they hadn't been in before. And I put, I did feel like I went out on a limb back then. So again, like, this is like the most uncomfortable I think I've ever felt doing this podcast. talking about this stuff, but, you know, Mike, I appreciate it. Also shout out to Kansas City. I've had a couple, like three people I know from San Diego move there in the past two years. I hate Bert, I ate Bert ends at LQ's one night. Good time. Yeah, I love Kansas City. I haven't been there in a while, but great barbecue town. Great middle American city. Always partial to those places. When you were talking, I was just imagining the Ian

The Ian Cohen Gravestone that says, wrote about balancing and composure in 2012. He will be missed. I think that could definitely occur there. So yeah, okay, so that's the bragging part of this episode. We won't be bragging on this show anytime soon, I don't think. I think we're allowed, like, one brag, a fiscal quarter. So that was the brag for the final fiscal quarter of 2023. Let's get to our next letter.

This comes from Marissa in Columbus, Ohio. Hell yeah. Another great Indycastown. I was just in Columbus, Ohio. Not that long ago. I landed in Columbus when I went to the Guy of My Voices show or shows in Dayton. So I drove through Columbus. I was at the Columbus Airport.

That's about all I know about Columbus, but it seemed like a nice city. I hope to be back there sometime soon. This is for Marissa. Hey guys, I just went to see the 1975 on their arena tour, and I've noticed that a lot of artists have been creating elaborate stage sets slash designs. I was wondering if you guys noticed this too, or maybe if there have always been elaborate stage designs, and I've just not been to enough arena shows.

Do you guys prefer a cozy set, or do you prefer when it's mostly just the bands and instruments on stage? Oh, I'm sorry, do you prefer a crazy set, not a cozy set? On a different note, I've always been neutral on looking up the set list before going to a concert, but I have friends who are vehemently against it. Do you guys look up set lists before shows, or do you have strong feelings about this one way or the other? Also, Maddie Healy does this thing where he drinks out of a flask the entire show and then trips around stage. Really? Yeah, is that a real thing?

I mean, he does it, but there ain't nothing in that flask. Just play acting drunk. Yeah. I feel like he's obviously pretending to be drunk rather than actually be drunk. And it's a bit annoying to me. Why do you think he does it and would it bother you? Thanks so much. Love the podcast.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Sincerely, one of your few, and there's a question mark in parentheses, Gen C listeners. That's Marissa. So I just want to say that if you self-identify as a Gen Z listener, we will probably read your letter on the show. Because we just want to bolster the perception that young people also listen to this show. Marissa asked three questions here. One, do you prefer an elaborate stage or a more cozy kind of just bare bones set up? Do you look upset list ahead of time?

And why does Maddie Healy act like he's drunk on stage? So in what order do you want to answer those questions, Ian? Well, I guess the first thing is the question about arena shows, because I do think it's worth pointing out that the 1975 is on like a literal arena tour. I missed their recent show in San Diego when they played the Pichanga Arena, which is where San Diego's minor league hockey team plays. Yes, we do have a minor league hockey team. And that was about three times the capacity of where I saw them last year on the same tour. and they sold out both. So I guess that's kind of a nice heat check after the year they've had.

But, you know, with Arena shows, I go to so few of them and seeing them just makes me wish I kind of went to more because the elaborate stage setup, and I think the 1975's stage set up for this particular, you know, tour with, it looks like a house, basically. I think it's pretty awesome. I love to see bands, you know, put some effort into it because if you're seeing it, an arena show, you probably can't see a ton of movement on stage. It needs to be an actual event. And I think that is particularly true with a lot of the bands I like who get to a, you know, I think of M83 and Tame and Pala bands who aren't, you know, they're not natural showmen and they're

kind of vibey music. You need lights, you need video. And I also just want to say that if a band tries to do an elaborate or at least a meaningful stage setup in a 200 cap room. That's also really cool. I remember when, you know, 2009-ish Japan droids when they were first starting to come up, they had wind machines on stage, you know, which is like punching above their way, but it just kind of showed that like they're having fun with it. They're putting some thought into it because, you know, Japan droids shows like they weren't a great live band.

So I like when bands, you know, kind of look, try to punch above their weights. Like, what I don't like is when I see a band like an 800 or a thousand, you know, cap room, like a mid-sized thing. And all you see is like a giant poster with their name on it. That's a little, it's a little discouraging. So that's the, I guess. Well, that's like the punk and emo thing. Like, you know you're a punk band if you have the banner. Yeah, the banner, right.

Behind the drum kit, you know, like. And if you don't want to be a punk band anymore, then you get rid of the banner. But, like, the banner is like a big, or, you know, like, the big, like, drape thing, like, with your name on it. I think that's such a staple of that scene. Yeah. And, you know what, like, I'm not going to, like, you know, mock bands for, like, not having the cat. Like, I know it's tough out there.

But, you know, there are ways to be DIY with it. Be creative. And, yeah, I mean, well, if you're an emo band, like, the first thing bands do when they start to get a little money is put, like, flowers on the mic stand. I know that's a big thing. But, you know, as far as the set list question, very, very select situations in which I feel it's appropriate. You know, I think recently when Jimmy Eat World came to town, like a band I love,

probably one of my favorites of all time. But it was a co-headlining tour with Manchester Orchestra. And I wasn't able to go to that show anyway. I think it was during Pitchwork Festival. But I would check the set list at that time to see what kind of set it is. You know, is it going to be, you know, because there's no album. cycle along with it. Are they just going to be playing the hits and maybe the one-off singles or is it going

to be deeper cuts? And it turns out, yeah, that's what they were doing. They were playing the hits. With the cure, when I saw them, that was a little more strategic because I wanted to see what the encore was. Because if we stayed for the encore, that would involve us staying in the parking lot for like an extra hour. And it just confirmed they were going to play Boys Don't Cry.

They were going to play, you know, close to me. I can miss those. So not to alienate our Gen Z people, but yeah, when it comes to sitting in traffic, that is the main consideration as to whether or not it's okay to check a Bansett list. So I'm going to answer these questions in reverse order. Let's start with the Maddie Healy acting drunk on stage. I think there's two ways you can look at this. One, you can laugh at it because it is a ridiculous thing to do, although there are a lot of frontmen that I enjoy that have. have done this sort of thing. I feel like Matt Berninger has been doing this for a long time, where he's got the wine bottle on stage.

There have been times where I actually thought he was drunk on stage, so he may not... I think he is. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to tell. I think he's at the point now where it's probably more play acting than actually drinking. I know, like, drive by truckers for a long time, they had this thing, like, would they be passing the whiskey bottle around on stage? Oh, yeah.

That's still something that they do, but I feel like if you look close to, not drinking as hard as they did back in the day. Same thing with my boy Robert Pollard have guided by voices. I think he does this thing where he opens a beer, takes a drink, and then like hands it to somebody. So it looks like he's going through all these drinks, but he's not actually doing it, which is a good thing because he's in his mid-60s at this point. Shouldn't be pounding beers at that age.

I also think about the story about Eddie Vedder, supposedly acting like he was drunk on the red carpet at the 1993 MTV Video Music Awards, which is a story that their disgruntled former drummer, Dave, bruisesé, which I can never say his last name. This is a running joke for people who know about my Pearl Jam writing. He told the story in the Pearl Jam biography that came out in the late 90s that was really just sourced to him.

Like none of the rest of the band talked to the writer of that book, but like Dave just like kind of craps all over Eddie Vedder in that book and that's one story that he tells that I think is pretty funny. So, you know, I actually feel like pretending to be drunk is better than actually being drunk on stage. You know, we don't want to encourage binge drinking or being out of control. So if Maddie Healy is just pretending to do that, it is kind of corny. But at the same time, he's trying to project a rock and roll type vibe

while also keeping it safe. So I can understand that. And again, there's a lot of precedence for that sort of thing. about looking at set lists. A lot of bands that I like pride themselves on not playing the same sets every night. So, like, I will look at setless sometimes just to get a general idea of like,

oh, what are they doing on this tour? How different are the shows from night to night? If I do get a sense, however, that the set list is pretty static, I'll try not to look at it too closely, just because if you know the order of the songs, it can be kind of boring when you actually get to the show.

and I imagine your friends, Marissa, who don't want to look at set lists, that's the reason why. They want to be surprised when they get there. And as far as like stage setups, you know, when you were talking about Japan droids, you know, bringing the wind machines, like when they were playing in clubs, which I remember. I remember they did that at South by Southwest.

They had wind machines on stage. I also thought about the band of Montreal, who, you know, were playing clubs in the aughts. and then at some point they turned into sort of like a mid-sized theater band. And they always had like tons of like theatrics in their shows. So like even if you were seeing them in a small space, you know, there'd be costume changes and there'd be like little like skits going on on stage. And it is another level when you see a band playing in a small room where they have all the theatrics.

Because when you're in arena, you expect that sort of. a thing and it looks larger than life and you're a little more removed from it. But like when you see someone like in a crazy costume gyrating in front of you and they're only about 10 feet away, it's pretty weird. It's pretty, uh, it's pretty great actually. I mean, of Montreal was a great live band. I don't know if you saw them back of the day. Oh, I did. Like a skeletal lamping era, just a lot going on in that. It's insane. They're a band, I feel like I've, I've, I've seen them bubbling up lately, like on TikTok and places like that. They seem like a band that is ripe for a resurgence.

I could see them in a way making more sense in the current indie world than they did in the aughts. Like they were, I think, much more sort of outside of like what everyone was doing at that time. But now this sort of like sexually omnivorous glam, funk. indie rock band that just seems like that would totally go over really well in in 2023. So, you know, the Gen Zers out there, if you haven't listened to Of Montreal, like go back to those records from the odds.

I think you're going to find a lot of gold there. Yeah, I also think that some of the things that of Montreal were doing back then, you can not get away with now. The whole Georgie Fruit alter ego. I think Kevin Barnes would take, it would scale that back of it. But yeah, I think that there is, I see that as a band that people can rediscover and get a lot out of,

especially with like the renewed interest in Elephant Six. I mean, they were of that world, but definitely not, you know, like Apples and Stereo or Neutral Milk Hotel. Fascinating band. Great, great, great live presence as well. Yeah, they were like the only Elephant Six band that was interested in sex. Like all the other Elephant Sixth band. are like pretty sexless, but like of Montreal is in the totally opposite direction. It's like

Elephant Six plus Prince, essentially. It's like what they were doing. So it's very interesting band. All right, let's get to 1998. The best albums of 1998, according to you and me, we're talking about 1998 because it's 25 years ago. The ostensible excuse that we have is that REM's 11th album up, is being re-released this week. The reissue was out today. The album was remastered, and there's a bonus disc of mostly live tracks that they recorded for Party of Five of All Places.

I don't know why they picked that show in particular. There's like a lot of 1998 live recordings of REM. They were touring a lot at that time, and they were doing a lot of television shows. But apparently this Party of Five recording, and I think there's like a dozen or so songs that they played for the show. I don't think they're all in the actual episode, but like they recorded a bunch for Party of Five.

It just adds to the 1998ness, I guess, of this reissue. So anyway, it got you and I excited about this period. You mentioned earlier that this was your first year of college. This was, I guess, it would have been my second year going into my third year. So, you know, the beginning of the year, I would have been a sophomore. and at the end of the year I would have been a junior in college. So it's a really interesting time. Just speaking in general about 1998,

like one of the things that strikes me, certainly like with the albums I chose, is that it's a very sort of pre-2000 type year, like anticipating the end of the century, looking ahead, trying to imagine, like, what is the music of the future going to be? It seems like that was something people were very conscious of in the late 90s, particularly in indie rock.

I think you had things going on where people were reacting to like the alternative rock thing. That was so big in the early part of the 90s, this very sort of macho, guitar-centric type rock. And you started seeing people going in the opposite direction where they were drawing from non-rock influences and, you know, like jazz and Crout Rock. I guess rock is in the name of Crout Rock, but it's a different, very different kind of rock music. electronic music and melding it with an indie sensibility, which sounds kind of weird to say now because we're just used to music not fitting into a strict genre. But back then, you know, the idea that like, oh, you could be a rock band but also have like a song with like hip hop beats on it or that you could be a rock band, but that sounds kind of jazzy.

Like that was a unique thing in 98 and you see people exploring that a lot, I think, at this time. Yeah, it was funny to do a revote for 1998. In 2018, Pitchfork, we did a Best in 98 redo. And that was fascinating because there were just so many mind-blowing albums of so many different genres, like rap, electronic music especially. Alt Rock was kind of going with going through like a post-electronica awkward phase where you would get like hip-hop beats, but like all these tinny trip hop beats as well. And, you know, it was post-O-K-K computer pre-Kid A, I think of it that way. But the really funny part was that, you know, when I think about, like, all these albums,

which I consider to be five-star, like classics, you know, like deserters songs, like these are albums that aren't going to make my list. Mercury Rev. Deserters songs, like Sparkle Horse, Good Morning Spider. Of course, Smashing Pumpkins Adore. These are all, like, incredible and all considered classics in a way. but those were the number 23, 27, and number 40 albums. Like, something had to be that back in 1998. And it was also funny to see the contemporary treatment of certain records,

like Elliot Smith XO, getting three stars from Rolling Stone, which, you know, it reads more positive than the review, or like a B-plus in Entertainment Weekly. So I guess it's just like, it was a fun reminder of how an album's history isn't always, like, you know, secured in the moment. Like back in 1998, you know, there might have been people who heard, I don't know, like a quimini or a miseducation of Lauren Hill and maybe felt a little ambivalent about them. Well, let's look at the Pazzoop list from 1998, the Village Voice, survey of critics, what they voted on as the best albums of that year. And this is a in the moment snapshot of what was critically acclaimed in 1998.

Number one, you have Lucinda Williams, car wheels on a gravel road. Number two, Lauren Hill, the miseducation of Lauren Hill. Number three, Bob Dylan Live, 1966, which is a great, that's the Royal Albert Hall, like, yelling Judas at Bob Dylan when he plays like a Rolling Stone on his first electric tour. Truth be told, that might be my favorite album released in 1998, but I didn't put it on my list because it's an archival record. But that's an amazing album. Billy Bragg and Wilco's Mermaid Avenue, number four, XO by Elliot Smith. at number five, Equam and I, outcast number six. Is This Desire by P.J. Harvey, number seven, airs, moon safari at number eight.

Hello, Nasty by the Beastie Boys at number nine, and Rufus Wainwright's self-title debut at number 10. Just to go back to that thing you were saying before, that pitchfork revote on the albums of 1998 that they did in 2018. I'll just do the top five. Number five, boards of Canada. Music has the right to children. Number four, neutral milk hotels in the airplane over the sea.

That's an interesting placement for that album, considering Pitchfork's past boosterism of that album. I'm curious if we're going to talk about that album later on. Elliott Smith, XO, number three, Lauren Hill at number two, and Outcast at number one. So that's just giving you idea of how people felt at the time and how people felt, I guess, what was? that 20 years after the fact. But let's throw all those lists in the garbage because now Ian and I are

going to offer the final definitive word on the best albums of 1998. So Ian, I'll let you go first. Again, we have not seen each other's lists. So I don't know what's on your list. I'm curious if we have any crossovers. It's possible that we do, but I don't know. What is your number five album, Ian? So as we do with these lists, I struggle with picking my five favorite and what I think are the five best because I just I have to I have to acknowledge the context of 1998, which is me being in my freshman dorm for like the first time, like buying CDs at the, you know, the student bookstore and just having my mind blown every single week seemingly. And so I have to pick something that represents both the kind of the real formative experiences, but also like me not knowing Jack's shit about music in general. So the most 1998 album that I still love that I have to include is Uncle Science Fiction. By no means do I think this is like one of the five strongest artistic statements of 1998.

but this just puts me back in a mindset where I was so hesitant to get an iPod because my CD rack was not only the most important, maybe even the only piece of furniture I owned. But there were no iPods in 1988. Well, yeah, I'm saying, but like this is like kind of describing like the lead up to it, right? Because, you know, back in 1998, like when I was formed. my self-identity, which was through the CD rack. It's like, this guy owns Mob, Deep, and Modest Mouse.

Like, you have to have that up front. And, you know, Uncle was a project of DJ Shadow, who was two years removed from introducing and James Lovell. And this is, like, the most CD-Rack album you can make in 1998. It had, like, Cool G-Rap. It had Tom York. It had badly-drawn boy doing a metal song before anyone knew who he was. It has a couple of fake trip hop songs.

Of course, Richard Ashcroft and Peak Pomposity doing Lonely Soul, which is like 28 minutes long. There's also, I did not know this. Maybe it was a bonus track or a hidden track. There's also a song with Ian Brown from the Stone Roses. This album, I never could tell whether people think it's like awesome or just like a complete joke. But this is an album I couldn't help but love in 1998. And I still get a lot out of it now. it's just a really fun extremely

1989 album so I have to honor that by putting it in number five and this goes back to what I was saying in our intro to this segment the idea of different kinds of music coming together and that being almost the point of the record you know that's something that

just happens organically but we're sort of front-loading the idea that oh isn't it daring that Tom York of Radiohead is on a record with DJ Shadow and they're doing this sort of hybrid of what Radiohead does and with a more electronic thing. And this is, of course, before Kid A.

So it's like right after OK Computer. So that just blew people's minds in 1998. I love this record too. I have not listened to it for a long time, but I definitely owned it in 1998. Love the Richard Ashcroft song. I'm totally on board with Lonely Soul. I think that's a beautiful song.

I want to put it on after we record this episode actually. I'm going to marinate in all 27 minutes of that song. It's great. So my number five album, now, I'll just say my list, the criteria was I was looking at 1998 albums and I was like, one of my most

excited about listening to right now. Like, that was my criteria. So, when we talk about the great albums of 1998, like the Equamanize and the Lauren Hill record are like in the airplane over the sea, you know, I can acknowledge the importance of those albums, but I'm not that excited to listen to them.

I just have lived with those albums for a long time. I've read about them. They're just not exciting for me. I don't get that like, ooh, I haven't heard that in a long time. I want to hear that. So all of the records on my list are like, ooh, I want to hear that type albums. Number five is T&T by Tortoise. This is one of the great, of course, post-rock bands of the 90s. I actually don't think that this is the best tortoise record, but in a way it's the most accessible album that they ever put out. It was the album that sort of made them stars in the late 90s, at least in the indie world. And it's a record

that I think you can listen to and you can get a real sense of what was going on in 1998, again, this idea of being a rock band, but not drawing on the typical rock album canon type sounds, but really having a more broad perspective and trying to bring in different sensibilities. That's what Tortus did, along with a lot of the other bands coming out of Chicago and the post-rock world in the 90s.

And it's a record that captures that vibe, but also I think if you put it on now and you don't have any of that context, like this record holds up. Like, I was listening to it this week, and it's just like a really good record. very smart, like a lot of ideas going on. Again, you have the jazz sensibility going on.

You have like the influence of Cannes, which is very obvious. There's like subtle sort of like 70s funk things being brought in, but like not in an obvious way. Just a really good record. I don't know if this album's on your radar at all, Ian, but it's number five for me on my list. I fucking love this record. I listened to it like last week. Now, like if, now this is, if I were to put it on my, my list, I'd be kind of lying because, like, this was not on my radar in 1998 when I was like,

another part of why we're doing this is because last week, it was the 20th anniversary of both juveniles 400 degrees and placebos without you on nothing, which was a more accurate representation of where I was at. It was like, I was listening to like southern, very regional southern hip-hop and, oh, I'm like a, I'm like a non-binary vampire. So, but yeah, this record rules. It just makes me think of like these alternate universes where like I'm a post-rock guy in 1998 as an 18-year-old and I'm like cool you know number four what's number four on your list Ian but well I will say that like there was like a time where I was like kind of sort of thinking about being cool so there's you know there's an important moment in every young man's life where a woman recommends

airs moon safari to them so that's going to be at number four and that's that's happened to me in my first semester of college in 1998. Now, I had worked at the gap in my senior of high school, so I was kind of quasi-aware of bands like Stereo Lab and who were doing kind of a loungeier, easy listening sort of thing. But, you know, when I heard it on Moon Safari, that just really blew my mind that, like, this was contemporary music, you know, that there was the possibility of music that was drawing on, you know, like Bert Baccarach, like 60s and 70s type music that wasn't like kind of Austin Powersy. Now mind you, like I was still like a total fucking dork. So, you know, more often than not, when I was listening to this album, it wasn't

because I was like, you know, hooking up with a girl. I was like more often than not I was, you know, getting high with my friend Carl and playing Tekken. But nonetheless, like this one holds up extremely well. Air had a surprisingly strong career. You would think that this album would just be them doing that but lesser versions of it. But yeah, Eric built up a pretty interesting catalog and this kind of threads the needle of being both an

album that was like mind-blowing specifically because I was 18 years old and never heard anything like it before but is still something I'm excited to listen to in the rare times I put it on. So this is our first repeat. This is also on my list. I'm going to hold off on talking about it until I get to where it is on my list. It's higher than number four, though, for me.

I'll just say speaking to your point about Air having a surprisingly strong career, I totally agree with that. And I would say that their score for the Virgin Suicides, as well as their album, Takiwaki, I totally put on the same level as Moon Safari. Those are two just brilliant records. I'm a huge Air fan. So, yeah, I'll hold off on talking about Moon Safari here in a bit,

but I'm a little surprised that this is an album that's on both of our lists. There's other albums on my list that I thought might be on your list, but I wasn't expecting Moon Safari. So that's very interesting. My number four list is a record that involves one of the most well-known legacy bands in indie music of the last 25 years. But I feel like this album in a weird way doesn't get included in the narrative of their career, even though I think that this album was absolutely crucial.

in establishing them as like a presence and, you know, getting people excited about who they were as a band. The album I'm talking about is Mermaid Avenue, and it's the album by Wilco and Billy Bragg. This is the album where those two, uh, where Wilco and Billy Bragg got together and they had this stack of Woody Guthrie Guthrie Guthrie lyrics and they wrote music for it and ended up with some of the, like, most loved Wilco songs, starting with California Stars. You know, like one of the songs that they are guaranteed to play every single night. But there's also, you know, like one by one is on this record. You know, Jesus Christ for President is on this record.

There's like a lot of just like beautiful songs. And again, I feel like when people talk about Wilco, you know, you talk about being there, being like the first kind of big statement that they made as a band. And then you have summer teeth being like the curveball in the 90s. Mermaid Avenue was like right in the middle of those two albums. And I really feel like this is where a lot of people got on board with them because it is the halfway point between being there, which is this sort of classic rock sounding album

and the more experimental power pop moves that they're doing on Summer Teeth. Mermaid Avenue is like the sweet spot between those albums. And I think like you put that record on, it is some of the most sort of effortlessly enjoyable music that Wilco ever made. And I would also add the second Mermaid Avenue album, too. Like, that's a great record. I just feel like people should talk about this album a little bit more. I think it's absolutely crucial to Wilco's career arc.

And I don't think that you have Americana as it currently exists, like, without this record. This seems like a totally crucial album for that scene. And it's still one of the best examples of, like, artists taking something that's old and making it feel new. So, Mermaid Avenue, number four on my list. All right. So for number three, for me, like, I'm going to kind of continue down the path of electronic music. Because there's so many things that I want to include, like, boards of Canada. God, I listen to that one all the time.

But I had discovered that a little bit more late. And this is also an album I wasn't listening to in 1980. I really wish I was. But, you know, by 19-19, I made this joke on Twitter. recently that when you listen to replacement level trip hop from that era, it's like some of the worst music imaginable because, you know, most, you know, most genre exercises, they can just, as long as they get the sound right, you know, it passes muster. But with trip hop, you have to be kind of mysterious and dark and sexy sounding. And it just sounds ridiculous if you don't have

the chops to pull it off. And so, you know, one of the bands that, one of the, are acts, I don't even know band is such a weird word to describe this group but uh that kind of formulated like what trip hop became was massive attack and their album that came out in 1998 mezzanine kind of did away with all that it is an album that and i say this as a compliment it reminds me of deaf tones in a lot of places i think that deaf tones absolutely are massive attack fans where it has those breathy unusual melodies but this very heavy sub bass and guitar they have have a man next door, which samples when the levee breaks, and also 1015 Saturday Night by The Cure, which is also Teftone stuff. And this is just like an album that sounds incredibly

bad ass at all times. Like, I can't stress how important that bad ass nature of it is. It also has, you know, the theme song from House Teardrop, which featured the Cocktoe Twins. So this was, This is a great example of a band that invents a genre. And there's going to be another album that I talk about that does something similar. They invent a genre and they just kind of absolutely tear it apart. They kind of despise what they've created. And so they just veer left on this album. It holds up extremely well.

If you tell me that an album is going for that sort of sound and like gets even 50% of the way there, I'm going to listen to it. I love this album. I saw Massive Attack on this tour at First Avenue. Wow. I guess that was 98 or it might have been 99. I also interviewed Massive Attack for my college TV show. And there's video of that somewhere in the vault at UW O'Clair. If someone wants to fish that out,

I believe I'm wearing my terrible late 90s Donnie Brasco leather jacket at the time because I wore that everywhere. So if someone wants to dig that out, that'd be amazing. My number three album is how it feels to be something on by Sunny Day Real Estate. My favorite album by Sunny Day Real Estate. And I feel like maybe this might be my favorite Emo album of all time. I don't know if that's like an acceptable choice. I'll let you judge Emo decide that for me.

But I think the reason I like this record so much is because it sounds as much like a U2 record as it does an emo record. This is like Sunny Day Real Estate coming back after that hiatus and just sounding like a big, larger-than-life rock band. And the songs here I think are great, but I just love the sensibility of this record. And I feel like the next record that Sunny Day did, The Rising Tide, tried to sort of repeat what they did on this record,

but they didn't get there. I think that this album, to me, when I listen to the early Sunday Day real estate records, I feel like it's building to this. As much as I like Diary and an LP2, I think that the refinement of their aesthetic on this record, to me, this, like, when I listen to this record, it feels like the record that Jeremy Enick was, like, fantasizing about making when he first put this band together. So this is this album that I thought might repeat on our list. I don't know if this album ended up on your list at all, but, like, it's my number three album

of 1998. Yeah, and it's also my number two. Like, I was thinking about, like, pivoting, because I have, like, like, I had a list of, like, maybes that I could just, like, kind of riff on, but I think I got to be on brand just a little bit because, you know,

I kind of previewed that by talking about Massive Attack. Because, yeah, this is an album that is, I guess, just considered emo only because of the band that made it. But, you point out, like, Diary itself does like barely sounds like an emo record.

It does like it sounds like a record that was released on subpop in 1994, which it was. And it's funny because the first album I bought by Sunday Day Real Estate, you know, I'd heard of them. I had probably heard seven or in circles on MTV back in like 94 on 120 minutes. But the first album of theirs I bought was The Rising Tide. And I did all I kept reading about was like how. They tried to sound like U-2 back before, you know, all that we can't leave behind came out and like U-2 were back. So they were kind of doing that U-2 thing when it was still kind of corny.

It was compared to rush moving pictures. And, yeah, what I love about this album now is that is it better than Diary? I don't know, but it's an album I can listen to more frequently and without the baggage. And it also sets up this template that I would use going forward to describe other albums. of this nature, which is an emo band making like a indie rock record. I compare Hotel Years' goodness to this album a lot in terms of its spirituality and searching nature. You know, like the world is a beautiful place. Harmlessness comes to mind.

A lot of records that came out in 2002, 2003 from this wave similarly. But yeah, fun fact. I was told that when Pitchfork did its 25th anniversary show, I, I think Animal Collective played. They had this wall of all their number one albums that they voted on. You cannot find this on the internet. I cannot find any evidence of it. But apparently how it feels to be something on was that number one album during the initial vote.

When we revoted in 2018, it was like number 32. It was behind like Gastardelle Sol or something like that. So it just kind of reminds me of like what it might have been like to be a writer back then. So that was my number three, and it was your number two album, how it feels to be something on. My number two album is American Water by Silver Jews. And in a way, I feel like this, if I had to pick the best album of 1998, I think I would pick this one. I think it's a record that people loved in 1998, but in retrospect, it just seems to have grown an estimation. In the same way that, you know, we talk about Elliott Smith XO.

I mean, it did well on the Paas and Job poll, but. it wasn't quite considered like the all-time classic record that we look at it now being. And clearly XO has been a record that still has a huge influence on like new singer-songwriters today. So that album, it just continues to grow in estimation. But I would say the same is true of American Water. I got on a smaller scale. I mean, it's not as popular of a record as XO.

But in terms of like the songwriting on this record, the quotability of it. and just David Berman how we look at him now compared to them he's now looked at as one of the great songwriters of the last 30 years and that is only going to grow he's going to be not put into the same company I think as other 90 singer songwriters

I think he's going to be in that class with people like Towns Van Zant like these all-time greats who have a tragic backstory I mean that seems like where David Berman is heading and if you want to know like, why does this guy justify that kind of mythology? This is the first record you're going to go to.

And it shows, on one hand, the incredible sort of focus of his lyrics on this record. And it also has that rock and roll thing that not all of his records did. I mean, this was a very, I think, chaotic time in his life. And Stephen Malchmus plays a big role on this record. And that is another element of it that gives it, I think, like a jammyer feel.

Like some of the Silver Juice records, I mean, I love all of them, but some of them, the music lags a little bit behind the lyrics. In American Water, the music and the lyrics are totally working in concert. And again, it just feels like a record that was loved at the time. But when I go back and look at that year, I just feel like this is a record that I gravitate to. it just seems like it's going to continue to grow an estimation as we get farther away from that year. All right. So heading into my number one, I just got to preface by, you know, we've talked about this a bit as far as like albums that come with like a lot of baggage and this acclaim and it's burned into our brain.

So like we can't get anything new out of it. You know, recently my wife is out of town for the weekend and like what happens in that. It's like I'll get home from work. And it's like, I want ice cream. I'm going to drive 25 minutes out of the way. way to a place I've never been. And I think I'll listen to OK computer. That will take up the amount of time it takes to get to and from.

And, you know, that's a record where I feel like, oh, what can I possibly get new out of it? But, you know, I hear it and it's just like, oh, wait, this is like a, the greatest album of all time. Like, you ever fuck around and just like listen to OK computer or something like that? Holds up. Yeah, it holds up. And, you know, I've had a lot of thoughts about, like, what to put at this spot because I think that neutral milk hotels in the airplane over the sea, absolutely. Like, it's not an album I listen to a lot.

But when I do, it just puts me back on what it was like to be obsessed with it. And like, listening to basically nothing else for a couple of weeks. Same with Elliot Smith's X-O. That was the first Elliott Smith album I had heard. I thought the guy with the beard on the cover was him. So that's how little I knew about Elliot Smith when I bought it. But at number one, I got to put like not just my favorite album in 1998, but maybe one, like a very short list candidate for my favorite album of all time.

That is Outcast, Aquim and I. It really blew my fucking mind when I first heard it. Like I, it was like hearing not just, you know, like a funkadelic or like a sly stone or a Stevie Wonder an album real time, but like that, but also, um, some of the greatest rapping ever committed to tape. It's a rare artifact of the CD era where all 75 minutes are necessary. And it really just opens some doors in terms of people starting to accept Southern hip hop. I loved in 97, 98, like stuff like Goody Mob and Master P because that was a contrarian thing to do as suburban Philadelphia Jew. But when this album came out, I lived in a dorm with a couple of New York people who just, like, would not listen to, like, New York. hip-hop or not listen to like southern hip-hop at all.

And when this got five mics in the source, they were like, okay, maybe there's something, you know, maybe there's something to this. And of course, unlike the let, they have a sample at the end of the album from when they were at the source awards, like, and they say, it's got something to say all. And so this one I still listen to because, you know, some people might argue that stankonia is their masterpiece, but this one isn't as over-exposed as stankonia or the love below speaker box. So I still just get so many new wrinkles out of it.

And it just reminds me of what it was like to really legitimately have my mind blown by music. It's a really rare thing to experience. So again, now that changed my life when I was 18. And when I listen to it now, I still tap into that, even though I've heard these songs like a billion times and can rap them by heart. Yeah, I love this record. I probably still lean to stanchonia as my first. favorite Outcast record, but like, I mean, this album is like a Beatles record. You know what I mean? It's so ingrained in, if you're of a certain generation anyway, it's so ingrained in

your background. It's just the record that is like implanted in your life. And I think that if I was talking about the greatest albums in sort of like a non-partial way, I would put this set number one because it's really hard to argue with. But again, just kind of going back to what I was saying before about, like, albums I am most excited on, albums I'm most excited to put on right now. Like, Aquam and I, I mean, I should put it on. I'm sure if I put it on, I'd be like, why wouldn't I put this at number one?

But, you know, like, on that test, it doesn't quite pass, but it's a brilliant record, along with Exo. And the airplane over the sea has, like, faltered for me a little bit. I mean, maybe I'm throwing out grenades here at the end of the episode. I don't want to get too deep into that. I mean, I've written about that before. But yeah, these are all obviously classic records. My number one album has already been mentioned by you.

It's Moon Safari by Air. And this is like a top 50 album for me. And it might be even more than that. Certainly in terms of like albums I write to, this is number one. This is my number one writing album. It is the record that always puts me in a certain frame of mind. it's an album that I think it's easy to overlook

how good they are at songwriting and production because the songs are they seem relatively unassuming they're mostly instrumental but I've listened to this album at least a thousand times and I never get sick of it

I just think that the invention of what they're doing on this record where they were taking an aesthetic from the 60s that sort of lounge pop, Burt Bacharach thing you were talking about, bringing in some Pink Floyd elements as well, like some subtle Prague rock things as well, and making it feel like a modern,

like late 90s indie pop record. It's so genius to me. And I think Air in general are like a really underrated band. I think that there are several albums in their catalog that I think are just brilliant. And they, just have a way of creating these soundscapes that are very vibey, that put you in a particular frame of mind in a mood, but it's not just, you know, sort of sonic perfume. You know,

like there's something else there as well. There's real sort of emotional resonance going on there. And it's just the album that, like, I listened to the most from 1998. So I got to put it at number one. So Air, Moon Safari for me. So we had two repeat. on our list. Yeah. If there's a band that can sound like both Sunday Day real estate and air, I think there's a good chance of you hit in Recommendation Corner. Well, now we have reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian wants you to go first. Well, God, I highly recommend if anyone can get their hands on Steve interviewing massive

attack for her college newspaper. Like, I'm so stuck on that because, like, College, it's the college TV station, so I'm on camera. That's why I'm talking about the Donnie Brasco leather jacket that I was wearing. That's just awful. But yeah, UW O'Clair, if you work at the TV station, TV 10, see if you can find that. Wow. So, with this, we're just going to move on from some of the greatest albums ever made, just some really nice albums that came out recently.

You know, when I did the blog rock list for Up Rocks a couple of weeks, or a month ago, like, what stood out to me was this stuff was like so omnipresent and so pervasive in my life. And I just don't hear bands. Like, I just don't know like what influence kept on because I would love to hear a band that sounds like annuals in 2023. Well, guess what? I got two of them. Today, this Friday, string machine, a band that I've mentioned on this podcast before is releasing a new EP, turn off anything on again. And also I want to give a shout to a band called National Park Service. It's all caps, stylized N-A-T-L, Park, SRVC. They're a new album magician. And I say blog rock lovingly, this is a six-piece from Pittsburgh string machine. And I believe National Park

Service is an eight-piece band from Minneapolis. And I believe we've also covered both on the podcast before with their 2021 albums. But either way, you know both of these are very just bringing back that 2006 style sound of you know very earnest striving uh very earnest and striving melodies all hands in sort of arrangements there are strings there are group vocals um i'm not going to say that this is going to be the sort of sound of the of the culture in uh you know in this year and going on the next but you know they love what they do they are very in touch with who they are. And if you enjoyed that blog rock list in, you know, in 2023, I would check out both these

things. So string machine, national park service, kind of a dual recommendation corner. So I'm doing a dual recommendation corner as well. The first one album I want to talk about is the latest from Cat Power. And this ties into our 1998 conversation because she just put out an album called Cat Power sings Dylan, the 1966 Royal Albert Hall concert. That's the same bootleg that was officially released in 1998, the famous concert where Dylan, he's playing on his first electric tour.

He's being booed after every electric song. And then before, like a Rolling Stone, someone yells Judas. Bob says, I don't believe you. And then he turns to the band. And he says, play fucking loud. And it's an historic moment. Cat Power covers the entire concert. on this album. So there's the acoustic set and there's the electric set. And like, look, I mean,

she's just like one of the great singers that we have right now. And to hear her sing these wonderful songs, it's such a delight. So if you like Bob Dylan or you like Cat Power, uh, this record is a total pleasure. So definitely check that one out. I also want to talk about an album called Reflector, not by Arcade Fire. It's by a Nashville guitarist named Daniel Donato. and I actually saw Daniel play live a few weeks ago and he's got like a really cool sound. Like on one hand, he's drawing from this sort of classic country thing

from the 1960s like the Bakersfield country sound of like Merle Haggard and Buck Owens where the Fender Talicaster is really prominent. And I just love that sound like that country twangy guitar. It's so beautiful to me. So he's doing that thing. but he's also a big Grateful Dead fan. So there's like a lot of jamminess going on as well.

So he'll play like a beautiful country song and then he'll go into like an extended jam that kind of sounds like Merle Haggard meets the Allman Brothers. And he's a great live act. I saw him. He played two sets, three hours, just a really good time. And the great thing about this record is that, you know, jam acts, they often struggle to capture what they do

on stage on their record, and he's able to do that. It sounds like a live band. He's capturing the vitality of what they do on stage. And at the same time, he's also a really good songwriter. So you have a great song, and that's always the most important thing. And then you have just like this beautiful playing going on. So it's the best of both worlds. I actually interviewed Daniel recently, and that piece is going to run on Up Rocks sometime

in the next few weeks. I think he's got a really good future. I'm curious to see where he goes. if he's going to be like the next guy to like you know take over Bonaroo in the way that like Billy Strings of the world and and Goose you know I think

this guy has the potential to follow on their footsteps so again that record's called Reflector it's by a guy named Daniel Donato check that out yeah I like I like how you mentioned the Telecaster like that's known for the Bakersfield sound

it's also known for the Urbana champagne sound so that's where the Telecaster is the official guitar of Indycast. Absolutely. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indicast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie.

And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.