Indiecast - The Black Keys Cancel An Arena Tour, GQ Cancels Band T-Shirts, + "I Saw The TV Glow" Revives Movie Soundtracks

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

This week's episode begins with Steven talking about his visit to Brooklyn as part of the promotional tour for his new book, There Was Nothing You Could Do: Bruce Springsteen's "Born In The U.S.A." And The End Of The Heartland (7:15). They also commence a quick Sportscast to talk about the state of jinxes and reverse-jinxes concerning the Minnesota Timberwolves (10:59).From there, they talk about how the Black Keys announced a change in tour plans from playing arenas to more "intimate" venues in light of weak ticket sales. Is this a sign of bigger changes in the live concert business (20:26)? They also discuss a recent article about the so-called "end of merch" and their respective feelings about band t-shirts (34:13). (Ian is indifferent, Steven has passionate opinions.) Then they address the recent soundtrack to the 2024 cult film I Saw The TV Glow, and how the album comments on the glory days of movie soundtracks from the 1990s (47:40).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks up the latest release from shoegaze band Draag while Steven stumps for a box set from The Waterboys documenting the making of an '80s alternative classic (57:36).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 191 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about arena rock bands canceling arena rock tours, the end of merch, and the I Saw the TV Glow soundtrack. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I wonder if you can tell that I'm in New York City? Ian Cohen, Ian, Ian, who are you? If it isn't Dimes Square, Steve.

I've seen you're already posting on model actress, the dare Chanel beads. You've completely, you spent one fucking day in Diamond Square and all of a sudden it's like altered zones 2.0. Look, I don't know if anyone has ever talked about this,

but the pizza in New York City, oh my God. It's the best. And look, I get really annoyed if you don't like, you know, fold the pizza in half and then eat it. Yeah, because that's the right way to eat pizza. If you're not eating it that way.

I don't know. Is that the right way to eat pizza? Am I right on that? I think that's how I'm doing here. I have no idea, but I'm just glad that we're getting all this, like, New York material out, and it won't air until after you do your book shows. So they don't, like, face a bunch of angry people at the gig. Yeah, I won't be in New York City by the time this post.

But I am here. I'm in a hotel room in Brooklyn. I don't know if it's downtown Brooklyn. Does Brooklyn have a downtown? I have no idea. But I'm here because I'm doing a book event for my book that came out this week. There was nothing you could do. Bruce Springsteen's born in the USA and the end of the Heartland.

Came out on Tuesday. I am going to be at a bookstore here in Brooklyn with Brian Fallon of the Gaslight Anthem. We're going to be talking about Bruce. That event will already have come and gone by the time this episode posts. Hopefully it went well. Hopefully I didn't have a heart attack or something on stage and die. that would make this a much more pointing episode. I was wonder about like, let's say we recorded an episode and one of us died before it posts.

Do we post the episode as like a tribute to the person who died? Or like the sublime self-titled album or like Biggie's ready to die? I mean, there's a lot of precedent for this. You know, I'd have to probably, you know, talk it over with legal, talk with. and about how we can, you know, be respectful about it all. Yeah, we should figure this out though. This is like a state planning. We should figure out a contingency plan or if that just this episode, but any episode

in the future, like if we record an episode and in the time between recording and posting one of us dies, does the episode go up as a tribute, sublime self-titled album style? Or does the episode get shelved and the person who lives records a tribute episode to the fallen co-host. What do you think? You spend one day in New York City and all of a sudden, like, we're talking about estate planning

and, like, what happens if one of us dies? I mean, God damn. What, like, what is this hotel doing to you, man? I'm in the big city. I'm in the big city, man. You never know what happens. I could be at a pizzeria and I eat the pizza the wrong way and all of a sudden I'm choking to death

and I'm dead. You don't pay proper respect to Kent 285. Are we still allowed to make Kent 285 jokes? Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, does that reference Carrie in the modern age? I mean, do the young people understand the legacy of Kent 285? Is it Kent 285 or 285 Kent?

Ooh, good call. I guess I think it's 285. Yeah, I guess we don't really respect its legacy either, even though we did just, you know, maybe even last week talked about a new dived album and like dives is, you know, the band that more or less launched 285, Ken or Kent, 285. I just think, like, in the future, there's going to be the documentaries about 285 Kent and we'll be thinking about,

you're going to be interviewing all these grizzled 2010-era music journalists who will be, you know, in their 50s by then, they'll be talking about, like, I saw Ice Age at 285 Kent, and it just blew my mind. And I was there with, like, 10 other people. And we all wrote think pieces about this show. It was amazing. And then no one else remembered it.

and that's the end of the documentary. Yeah, it's like then we all went back to work at Pitchfork the very next day, which was like right above Kent 285. I think the old office was actually like right like neighbors with it. So that might explain it a little bit. But man, look at us, man. Like one day in New York and we cannot stop talking about New York. So you keep saying Kent 25 and I keep saying 285, Kent.

Like which one is it? All right, we're going to have to go to the tape. It's 285, Kent. Okay. You were correct. Because that was the address, right? Yeah. Is it on Kent Street or Ken Avenue or something?

I couldn't tell you, but the first thing that came up when I Googled it is why the closing of Kent to it or why the closing of 285 Kent doesn't matter. It's an article on Vice. Oh, well, of course, that's the Vice take. Vice is going to take the cynical take. But there must have been like some earnest. Yeah. 285 Kent. Oh, there was totally was.

They're absolutely like, I remember 2014, believe you, me. Yeah. That was kind of the end of people believing that New York was the center of the indie world. And I feel like after that, everyone realized, oh, yeah, it's way too expensive to live here. We can't even prop up the dreams of trying to have our own CBGBs, you know, in the modern age. because there hasn't really been another venue like that in the last time years. Not that we're aware of. Not the one that's attracting the think pieces.

I feel like in real time, people are writing think pieces about 285 Kent and making short documentaries about it and all that stuff. I don't know. Anyway. The glory days as was that, the 10th song on a certain album, right? Glory Days, yes, the 10th track. Ice Age Kids. throw that speedball by you. Let me tell you. Thank you. See, you've been such a good

co-pilot on the book promo, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, that's why you can't die, man. We got like one coming up in a couple weeks in L.A. That's true. I'm going to hang on for that. I'm not going to eat any pizza here in New York because I don't want to choke to death because I'll eat it wrong. I'll eat it.

I'm going to go to a pizzeria here and order a Jack's pizza. A Jack's Frozen Pizza. My Midwestern Peeps will understand that reference. and I'll ask him to cut it into squares for me. So my Midwestern ass will feel more comfortable here. But yeah, anyway, I put out a book this week.

My Bruce Springsteen book came out. Seems to be doing okay. Sales-wise, review-wise, got some good write-ups. So happy about that. If you've read the book out there, if you bought it, thank you for your support. Trying not to do too much self-promotion here. But, you know, when you write your book, Ian, I'm going to plug the how out of your book, too, because I do appreciate you co-plugging the book online. You're co-plugging the book here in the pod.

You're a true co-host in the podcasting world. So I appreciate that. So just so you know, I'm on the hook for lots of plugging when you write your book. Should that ever come to pass? I mean, but yeah, I mean, it's a great book. And I think that one of the things I've seen as far as like on Twitter or people reviewing it are people who, you know, kind of preface by saying, yeah, I'm not like a Bruce Springsteen stamp, but I really enjoy this book. And I feel it feels a little odd to say, yeah, if you don't really like or care or like are a super Bruce Springsteen fan, you'll actually enjoy this too. But like, I think that's the case.

You know, it looks back in a moment in time. it's almost like one of those documentaries that you see where like, you know, like we are the world or whatever. It's this thing that was super ubiquitous, but it really helps you to understand what was going on. And, you know, so many music books nowadays get caught up in like academia or just like trying to be super voicy. And this one's just like a great read. It's my, it's my favorite music book since the last one you did about Pearl Jam. Another band that was super important to me at a certain time. I sort of lost track on, but, you know, it just put me back in that moment and also caught me up on, like, the 21st century output of that artist.

Well, that is such a nice thing. All those things, very nice. Ian, thank you for that. I will say, if you do like Bruce Springsteen, I think you'll like the book, too. You know, it's not just for the people who don't care about it. There are, although I do, I just got an email before I came on from a random person, like a middle-aged Springsteen fan. who didn't like the excerpt that was on the ringer, and he had some complaints about that. So if you're like a 56-year-old Bruce Springsteen fan, I feel like that is the most problematic demographic for me. There are 56-year-old Springsteen fans that I've heard from that like the book, but then there's some coming in hot who aren't crazy about the book,

who, you know, there's some things that I write that maybe they don't agree with, yada, yada, yada. It happens. It's part of the game. but yeah if you like Springsteen you like the book if you don't like him you might like the book anyway so yeah yeah I think just because you mentioned the music

videos like that's the excerpt that ran and that is like I would say the part of Bruce Springsteen's autorship that is the weakest you were talking about videos like I've never seen before like I don't think I ever saw the Glory Days video I don't think I ever saw the my hometown

video I only I'm only familiar like a super, like a super chump of born in the USA and dancing in the dark. The other ones are completely unfamiliar to me. Yeah, yeah, the excerpt that ran on the ringer, it's about how music video shaped Bruce Springsteen's image in the mid-80s. And most people liked it, but not this one guy who just emailed me right before we started recording. But anyway, that's off to the side. Self-promotion cast is over. let's go to sports cast here for just a minute because

I'm really confused with the chain of jinx talk that's taken place with the timber wolves in the past few weeks because there's been so many reverse jinxes going on. I don't know what's going on. I just wanted to do a quick recap here. So we did our lost episode where I talked about how I felt that I had jinxed the timber wolves because I had jumped on the bandwagon

in the previous episode when they were up 2-0 on Denver. And then in the Lost episode, I talked about how I feel like I jinxed them because at that point, they were down 3-2 to Denver. It looked like they were done. And then after talking about that, actually, I'm already getting confused. I think in the episode after the lost episode,

the episode that actually aired, I talked about how I kind of reverse, versus jinxed them because in the episode, the last episode, I thought I jinxed them, but then they actually went on to beat the nuggets, four three. And then that was last week's episode. And at that point, they were down one oh to the Mavs. But I was feeling pretty good about Denver. I'm sorry, about Minnesota at that time.

And then going into today's episode, I wrote literally in our outline, see, let me get this quote right. I said, T. Wolves Collapse. Is it possible to cheer for a Luca Karee championship? And because at that point, the T. Wolves were down 30. And it looked like they were going to get swept. But then last night, this is Tuesday night, the T. Wolves beat the Mavs in Dallas to make a 3-1. So I kind of reverse jinxed them again by what I wrote in the outline. So now we're a 3-1.

Denver, I keep saying Denver, Minnesota and the Mavs play on Thursday night, which is before we post. So by the time this episode posts, the series might be over, or it might be a very exciting three, two with the Mavs up, but the T-Wolves ascending. So I don't know what the hell to say at this point. Yeah, our jinks and the Timberwolves are sort of like indie slees and that we can never tell whether it's coming or going, but it's just fun to talk. about nonetheless. And yeah, last night was an interesting game because it was, like, this has been kind of a close series, but last night was interesting to see, like, the Timberwolves hit all the clutch shots that they weren't hitting in previous games.

So, yeah, if a couple bounces happened differently, like this series maybe even tied or Minnesota's up. But as far as, like, whether it's, like, possible to cheer for a Luca-Kairi championship, I mean, we talked about this with the Chiefs in the Super Bowl. There's only one ethical way to root for, you know, there's only one ethical way to approach this playoff season. That's the root against the Celtics, not just because, like, they're kind of a boring chalk pick or the Boston Media Mafia, but, you know, Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, they, it wouldn't

just be a win for them. It would be a win for the Mamba mentality, which I think is maybe the single most cancerous influence on the NBA for those of us who just, you know, want our. players to be exciting and have swag. You know, this is, it's sort of like if, you know, what, what, like, what music criticism would be like if all rap writers were in like Jake Cole as much as Kendrick Lamar, you know what I mean? But, I mean, how could you not root for Luca after that shot he made over Rudy

Gobert and just cursing him out after 59 minutes looking like he's about to vomit on the floor? I just cannot, we, it's just so hard to comprehend the kind of swag that guy and Yokic spring. And if this were 1985, those two Nicola Yokic and Luca Donchik, they would absolutely be in a kind of a Slavic buddy comedy. You know what I mean? Like, that's just a sign of our societal decline that we haven't tried to parlay that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we haven't really seen an athlete try to do like the direct-to-video action star thing that you had. Well, Kyrie had a movie. Kyrie had a movie. Uncle Drew. You were

remember that? No, I'm not familiar with that. Yeah, he made a comedy where he like played an old man. It was like based on a commercial and, uh, Uncle Drew, Kyrie. Yeah, this movie is real. Wow. It happened. Apparently, it made $46.7 million at the box office. What? When was this? This was 2018. Like I know that like 2018 feels somehow more ancient than two, 2008. This is, oh, yeah, this had Shaq and Chris Weber and Nate Robinson and J.B. Smooth and Tiffany Haddish and Nick Kroll in it. Oh, my God.

Yeah, it like tripled its budget in terms of box office. Well, is it Uncle Drew? This is the name of the movie? Uncle Drew. Why isn't there? There should be Uncle Drew, too, with that kind of return. Like, why hasn't there been more Uncle Drew the Uncle Drewiverse? Why this should be growing if it has that kind of box? I mean, because, like, I was thinking more of, like, the Brian Bosworth.

Oh, yeah. Movies that were, I don't know if they were popular, but they were prevalent in the late 80s. They definitely existed. Like where Bosworth is like a, like a renegade cop who, you know, has to break the rules in order to save the law, you know, that kind of mentality. You know, I was thinking more about Kyrie in that scenario, like originally. Like, again, like, I don't know what to say here because I don't know if I'm going to talk about. the MABs winning this series and going on into the NBA finals, maybe that's going to help the Timberwolves.

So let's go in that direction. Okay, so let's just assume that the Mavs, let's say they won game five. Let's assume that happens, which our audience knows who won that game. We don't know who won that game. But let's say they did. I'm just a little surprised at myself that I'm pulling for Kyrie Irving to win an NBA title, his second NBA title. just because he was the most annoying athlete on earth for a while until Aaron Rogers took the crown from him solidly.

And he's like no one's even close to him at this point. But, you know, he's played really well in Dallas. You know, he's been like a great, you know, sidekick to Luca essentially. And like him beating Boston, you know, and, you know, doing something with the leprecha. I don't know if he's going to step on the leprechaun or slam the ball on the leprechaun in the middle of the court if the maps win the title. That is strongly appealing to me. And I'm shocked by how much I'm looking forward to that possibly happening, but I am.

Yes, likewise. And I mean, Kyrie, I think he's like not said anything super stupid recently. He's sort of in that, I would say, Kanye circa 2013 mode where he's got like some really bad at takes, but he's right about some other things. And also it's like he's performing so well that you can kind of forget about that for a bit. Yeah, it's weird. I didn't think I'd like turn around on Kyrie, but, you know, the way he's, the way he's been playing just, you know, and also the possibility of like the revenge against Boston.

I don't remember like how he left Boston, whether it was like on his own terms or like acrimoniously. He was acrimonious, I think. Okay, good. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds. That sounds right. I mean, I think he was looked at as like a cancer in the locker room. Like, he was supposed to be the number one guy. And he just did not live up to that at all.

Yeah. So they're going to boo the shit out of him if that ends up being the finals. Yeah, can't wait. Either way, like, either way, we're going to get a very easy team to root for in comparison to, you know, like Boston and just completely swagless, even if they are playing it. like a historical level. It's just, I just can't, like,

it says a lot if you root for the Celtics and you're not from Boston. Yeah, I mean, it's not even like those players are unlikable. I mean, it's not really them,

but they're also, like, not that exciting. Like, you know, I don't know, like, Jalen Brown.

It's the, Mamba mentality. It's the, it's the, you know, just, hey man, I'm like grind set in the gym. It's,

it's, yeah, it's like the whole rise and grind, mid-range, jumper. It's Jay Cole playing basketball, but not like the Jay Cole that actually played basketball in Africa type thing going on. There's got to be like some way to like link Jason Tatum and Jay Cole. Like Jason Tatum does seem like the Jay Cole of superstar NBA players where it's like,

you know, you can't really dislike Jay Cole like on the face. He's not like a hateable person, but you're also like something like not. It's corny. It's kind of corny now, not magnetic. I think this is a similar thing with Jason Tatum. Let's talk about the Black Keys. I think that's a good segue. They're kind of getting J. Cole with it in the blues rock duo space.

Yeah, yeah. Have we talked about the Black Keys on the show before? Maybe like a little bit. They have that album, Let's Rock. For Ohio players. They've had some really good album type of place. Well, but we didn't talk about Ohio players at all. Oh, I remember, I remember talking about Let's Rock because this was maybe 2022.

They put an album called Let's Rock and Let's Rock was in quote marks. Yeah, hell yeah. That was an interesting, like, are you quoting someone saying let's rock? Are you ironically saying let's rock? Very curious choice. They were in the news this week because they had announced a big arena tour that was going to be taking place this summer and they ended up canceling the tour. and I'm going to read from the pitchfork news item on this.

The Black Keys have canceled. The arena tour, they were due to start in September. So I guess it was a fall tour, not a summer tour. Saying the dates will be rescheduled for smaller venues, Dan Auerbach and Patrick Carney cited a tower, a tour of mid-sized venues in Europe that inspired them to, quote, offer a similarly exciting intimate experience for both fans and the band. So the way that they framed it, I guess, in their press release, was that they made a conscious choice to play smaller venues

because they played this European tour and they had a good time there and they thought that would be better for the fans. It came out online that that might not be the entire truth. That essentially they canceled the tour because ticket sales appeared to be disastrously slow. There were various Twitter accounts posting screenshots of like the seating charts that you see on Ticketmaster

when you buy tickets. and it's like all blue dots essentially. You know, blue dots meaning available seats. And from what I understand on this tour, they were charging in the neighborhood of like $100, maybe more for general, for GA tickets,

which seems awfully expensive for the Black Keys. I think they could have justified that if they had toured with other bands, which I think they've done in recent, years. Like they've played arenas and amphitheaters. I think they did back in like 2022. But they were, but I think they were touring with like other

bands of their ilk. Yeah, I think they did like a tour with modest mouse or something like that. Right. Like band of horses maybe, I think was a support act. Yeah. Which makes sense. Daniel Ratliff and the night sweats. They could probably do

something like that. Yeah. There's a lot of options there for. Did you say Daniel, Ratliff? I said Nathaniel, right? Okay, I thought you said Daniel. Because I was like, isn't that the guy I played Harry Potter? Yes, it is. Hey, look, I've been watching The Jinks.

Nathaniel Rattlin from the Night Sweats does the theme song for that. Oh, good for them. That's why I'm talking about that particular band. A band, which, by the way, I've never heard their music aside from that. They're in the whole, like, what's it, St. Paul in the Broken Bones. and that whole, like, where Alabama shakes are just basically freaks compared to what those bands were doing. Yeah, I would say, because I have listened to Nathaniel Ratliff and the Knights' Sweets, and I would say that if you've never heard them and you want to guess what they sound like based on the name,

like you'd probably be pretty close. You know, like this is, like, you know, if you're thinking like, oh, yeah, is this like house music or is this freak folk? No, it's not that. Just take a guess like what kind of music. Nathania Ratliff and the night sweats would be that just screams like, you know, sort of like roadhouse, bluesy, R&B throwback soul type music.

Yeah. Made by like a bunch of white guys in like hats. Right. Right. The hats really drive at home. Right. I mean, I just think about this Black Keys tour, like if they had booked it like with Spoon,

like if Spoon was the opening act, I think they actually could have maybe justified the $100 ticket. But if it's just the black keys and then you got, I don't know who the opening act would be, some artist that Dan Auerbach is producing, I would predict. I think you got to go like 50 bucks, 65 bucks, something like that for like a GI ticket. I think they maybe figure that the sort of person who'd want to see the black keys in 2024 has a lot of disposable income.

Maybe they're an ad exec that booked the black keys to do a certain commercial. but I think it's not even so much the ticket price so much as the fact that it's an arena. Like I had to do a lot of introspection after this story ran because I use arena rock a lot as a descriptor and music criticism, not recognizing the difference between what it means to play an amphitheater of, say, three, four thousand and playing an actual arena, which is maybe something more along the lines of like 10 to 15,000. and we don't have arena rock bands. I mean, like, that might be, like, Blink 182 can play arenas. Green Day can play arenas.

The Black Keys, I mean, even at their peak, I think that was a question that arose, which is that could the Black Key... They did, though. Oh, they did? They did play arena. Yeah, I saw them in an arena, like, and I don't remember what year. I think it was, like, you know, it would have been, like, mid-2010s. I saw them playing an arena. So, like, they have a history of playing arenas, and I think the music that they play also could be classified as arena rock aesthetically.

Like, it fits in the mold of, like, what you think arena rock historically is supposed to be. I don't necessarily feel like they don't belong in a room like that. I think it is the ticket price, and I think it is them going out alone without a support act. I think you could justify that. You know, the reason why I think the story. blew up. Well, one reason is that people just like taking shots at the Black Keys. And this is a band that people feel emboldened to take shots at. And I push back against that a little bit. I do like a fair amount of Black Keys material, like not much maybe in the last 10 years. But to treat them

like they are like beyond the pale makes me roll my eyes a little bit. Like when I see people on social media doing that, because I do feel like, okay, you're only doing this because it's an easy target, you know, but are the black keys really that hateable in 2024? Like, is this band being rammed down your throat? Like, are you, like, I understand maybe even being annoyed with them in the early 2010's, like, where every barbecue commercial, every Applebee's commercial, every tire commercial had like a black keys ripoffs in the commercial. But I feel like that time has come and gone.

And now they're just like an old rock band. Yeah. I feel like, so just lay off the black band. keys a little bit. Like, you don't need to revel in them having to cancel a tour. Like, some of that response, that annoyed me a little bit. But I don't know. I feel like they could do it.

But you just need to get, like, other middle-aged guy rock bands together. Kings of Leon. We just talked last week. That would be, honestly, a really good bill. And I would be tempted if someone had a plus one and they wanted to take me to that show. And they were also like, I'm going to buy all the beers tonight. I would attend the hell out of that show. I think that would be a fun,

total arena rock show. Like those two bands together, that is like, you know, the 20-24 version of seeing like Blue Oyster Colt and, you know, Bachman Turner overdrive together.

You know, like that'd be amazing as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, Steve wouldn't pay the ticket price, but he would pay for parking if you gave him a plus one and like maybe a few beers. Yeah, because I think it, I think that, you know, Black Keys are like a, you know, kind of a fall guy for a greater phenomenon because there, I can't recall which Twitter account it is.

But what it specialized in is posting pictures of that very phenomenon of like seeing an arena rock show, but like all blue seats. Because I think like this is happening to Billy Elish. I remember, I always feel bad when arena rock shows happen and no one's buying tickets. It's like even during the Arcade Fire Reflector tour that just really was right-sizing for them. I felt like a little bad because I've never been in an arena rock show that's – I've been in plenty of, like, embarrassingly empty club shows. But I feel like an empty arena show would be way more embarrassing because, like, you have to put the tar. I've seen it where you put, like, tarps over the higher seats. And it just feels kind of icky all around.

But I think this is just emblematic of a belief that the post-pandemic bump for live music was just going to continue. It's sort of like the festival bubble that happened. But for some reason, festivals are still happening. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. I can't imagine the Black Keys saw money on the table. It's like, yeah, we got to make a grab at that. It was probably just an overenthusiastic agent or, you know, arenas thinking they could squeeze some extra dollars. and it just blew up in their face.

But look, you do this with like Kings of Leon, you unhold, you get the jaws of life and you pull those two albums out of the memory hole and you have like what a pretty successful arena or amphitheater type tour. Just forget the new, no, no, don't pry the new albums out of anything. Let them be forgotten. Just be like, we're bringing back the 2000s.

That's the tour. Just be like, hey, man, we're playing the favorite hits of the Obama administration. Like, that's what we're doing on this tour. That would kill. Just be like, hey, man, Kings Leon, we're doing sex on fire, you know. We're doing, tighten up. Tighten up, I think, was their big hit. Like, all the hits from Al Camino.

I mean, I was in a bar last night. They were playing some of those old Black Keys songs. Come on, people. Like, they had some jams back in the day. Let's just, like, put it aside. you know, you're not too cool to enjoy some of these old Black East songs. Like, they have some good tunes. So if you want to hear them in Arena, I think it'd be really good.

Yeah, I've seen people talk about, like, you know, whether this is the fever breaking ticket prices, if we're going to be, you know, maybe seeing, like, a return to normal sea with a lot of this stuff. And I really don't see the connection between, like, a Black E's level act and, like, the Big Dog acts that charge a lot of money, you know, the Taylor Swift's, the Bruce Springsteens, the Beyonce's, just because there's a lot of demand for those big ticket acts in a way that maybe there isn't as much for the Black Keys. Like maybe the more middle class of artists, if there is still a middle class of artists,

they have to figure out something in this current reality. But I don't necessarily think that, oh, because the Black Keys couldn't sell out in Arena Tour, that's going to mean that Taylor Swift is going to charge less for her tickets now. No, but I did hear about these middle class sort of bands. A friend of mine who goes to a couple concerts per year talked about what it costs to see the Menzinger's at the 1,000 cap room in San Diego. And wow, like that is, it's not like Black Keys level cost, but it's like closer to that than you might think. That's interesting. I wonder if bands that play smaller venues in a way feeling boldly to charge more

because they're giving people like the Black Keys are saying a more intimate experience. Like the Black Keys are going to be playing smaller rooms, but they're probably not going to be lowering their ticket prices. Like they may actually charge more, but they can now say, well, we usually play arenas, but now we're playing theaters. So now you're getting like a little bit, something extra. And that's why we're going to be charging more. I don't know if that's going to be the rationale or not for that.

But I could see that happening. For reference in the same venue I was talking about in San Diego, Hobo Johnson tickets cost $64. Wow. Hobo Johnson and the love makers. I just need to be clear about that. It's not just Hobo Johnson. You're getting the band.

Hobo Johnson. Now that is someone where you couldn't necessarily guess what kind of music he makes from the name. I still don't think I know what kind of, yeah, I still don't think I've heard a little Joe Johnson song. Is he sort of like emo rap? I mean, that's, in my mind, that's what he is, but I could be totally off. I think so. It's sort of like if, I'm guessing here, just based on the detritus that's been left in

my mind since 2015, don't quote, actually quote me on this, fuck it. It's like if modern baseball was more like rap. Okay. That's kind of what I'm thinking. Right. Yeah. Yeah, like emo rap. Yeah, folk punk rap.

Not just like folk punk rap. There's a difference. Possibly the worst music that you could conceive of, really. I mean, that's got to be in the bottom five of possible music combinations. I want to bring up this article. I don't know if you saw this, but GQ, gentlemen's quarterly. The proprietor pitchfork. Is that the right way to say?

Proprietor, like, pitchfork is the vertical now? GQ in the Condé Nest, the stable of titles. I think that's how it's laid out at the moment. GQ, they ran an article this week. It's called The End of Merch. And it's a story about how merch, and merch is a term applied in the article to really anything that advertises a brand. So it could be banned merch, could be sports merch, could be

you know, whatever merch, anything that's selling a company or, you know, some sort of entity, they're putting forth the idea that this is a trend, first of all, that it's a trend, and that's a trend that's a trend that is ending. And I just want to read this first graph, because, and I'm curious about your stance on band t-shirts. I have an evolving stance on band t-shirts. But I was reading this article, and it's sort of like when it's how I would imagine reading a book report about the earth written by an alien from outer space. Like someone from outer space describing something that to me is very mundane or typical or part of my life, but using language that seems very foreign and strange. Recently, I was reorganizing my dresser drawers when I discovered a thick layer of graphic t-shirts

buried under my solid white standbys, undisturbed for many months. As I unfolded the crease garments, I found mementos I had bought as far back in 2017 at concerts, restaurants, and from random people on Instagram, all of which I wore for a while, than all but forgot about. It was a stockpile from the years

when merch occupied a special cultural position when graphics were the language of style and fashion embraced souvenirs and novelty. I placed my minor collection into a plastic tub for long-term storage. I can't imagine getting rid of any of it, but I also can't imagine wearing any of it anymore. And then in the next sentence,

he talks about how merch was a fashion trend, apparently, starting in 2013. But the 11-year arc of trendiness for merch has apparently ended. And I don't know. It's fascinating to me because I'm someone, Ian, who thinks that fashion. And I mean this with the utmost respect. I think fashion is stupid and boring. I don't care about it at all. And I'm someone who has a lot of band T-shirts.

And I've always thought of band T-shirts as something that I wear as a person who doesn't want to think about fashion. It's almost like anti-fashion. Like, I know I have to wear clothes, but I just want to wear this thing that I like. And it doesn't seem connected to anything that is remotely fashionable or trendy. So to see this thing that I've worn for most of my life be sort of sucked into the fashion industrial complex and then spat out, is fascinating because I wasn't aware that this is how far outside of fashion I am. I wasn't aware that this was some sort of trend, but apparently it is. Do you have any thoughts on this?

What is your history with band T-shirts? Is this something that you've invested money in yourself in the past? Yeah, I mean, I read that article as well. And all right, look, with all due respect to the people quoted in it and who wrote it, like I tried to read it, but it kind of was, it was similar to what happens when there's a article written about this new wave of rap or electronic music, uh, that pops up every couple of years. And I can, you know, I recognize the big names and I can kind of bluff my way through it, but on the whole, I have no fucking idea what they're talking about. And I think it's just interesting

in light of, you know, GQ and pitchfork, kind of absorbing each other, even though I've not really seen any difference since in the past four months. I mean, if GQ's saying merch is dead, boy, that's a big fucking problem for them. You know what I mean? But yeah, as far as like, I mean, first off, like merch, I can't afford it. Most of the, I do see, a lot of people I follow on Twitter talk about, you know, buying first run, definitely maybe OAWAX T-shirts and paying like 200 bucks on D-pop for them. But otherwise, yeah, I don't, I don't fuck with merch.

Because I just don't have any opportunities to wear band t-shirts. And it's really, really difficult to kind of thread the needle and make a band t-shirt that I don't feel kind of stupid wearing. Not stupid because of the band, but just the design of it. You know what I mean? I think the last, the only t-shirt, band t-shirt I bought in the past 10 years was an Algernon. a lotter t-shirt from the reunion tour because the design it kind of had like a sunbather cover sort of thing where like the font was cool and you couldn't exactly read what it was saying but it was a cool graphic before that and I don't think I'm making this up the last t-shirt I owned was from the

band women it was a really cool design you can sort of see the band name in harder to read font it was cool but you know otherwise I'm just so sad because the Algernon shirt got like a little stain on it when come out. So it got demoted to Jim T-shirt in about like two months. It's a real shame. Merch doesn't affect me, but I think it kind of connects in my mind with the Black Key story because throughout the pandemic and beyond,

we would hear about how merch was keeping a lot of bands afloat, kind of similar to maybe charging perhaps more than they would for live shows. And if merch is dead, I mean, I would really wonder what it would mean for a band. You know what I mean? Well, it's not dead because the people that buy band t-shirts, they are in a totally different world from what this article is talking about. This is addressing people that care about fashion. And I really think that the majority of people that buy band t-shirts are not fashionable people.

That's why they're buying band t-shirts because they like band t-shirts. They don't want to wear bullshit fashion clothes, whatever's in style at the moment. So it's not over. refer a certain kind of person, maybe a person who reads GQ, but not for, I think, the audience for band T-shirts. But I was thinking about my own relationship with merch over the years, because when I was in my 20s and 30s, I bought band T-shirts religiously. Like, I would go to shows.

If I liked the band, I would buy a shirt. If I didn't love the band, but I just liked that particular show, I would buy a shirt, which is how I ended up with, like, Avi Buffalo T-shirts. Oh, geez. That one you do want to put in plastic storage. Tons of, you know, just bands from like the late 2000s, early 2010s shirts that like I'd wear once or twice. And then I'd be like, I don't even really like this band. Like, why am I wearing this shirt?

Over the years, like, you know, at this point of my life, I don't buy as many band t-shirts as I did back then. And there's three reasons for that. One is that I don't go to as many shows as I did back then. so fewer opportunities to buy shirts. Two, I have so many band T-shirts already. I just feel weird about buying them. I'm a little choosier now about what I'm going to add to the stable because I literally have like dozens upon dozens upon dozens of band T-shirts at this point.

Three, and I think this might be the biggest reason why I don't buy a lot of band T-shirts. And you touched on this a little bit, and I think we've talked about this in previous episodes. I think that the state of band t-shirt design is in a, it's a state of crisis at the moment. I can't tell you how many shows I go to and I peruse the merch table. And they'll have like four or five different shirts. And like, I don't like any of them. And these are bands that I love. And I want to buy a shirt.

I want to like, I want to represent them out in the world. I want to support them at this show. Because like you said, merch is a big revenue stream for bands. It's a way to support a band that you love, so I want to do that. But there's this thing now with band t-shirts, like, where they're straying from the basics. I think a band t-shirt needs to have the band logo, whether it's like the way that the band's name is written, like, in a certain kind of font. You know, like a lot of bands have that. Like, you look at their records.

It's always written in the same font. You know what it looks like. Or there's like a logo that's associated with the band. or it's an album cover. One of these things that's easily identifiable with the band, and then you put the tour dates on the back. Bang, bang, boom. That should be at least one option

if you're selling a T-shirt, just like the straightforward band t-shirt thing. There's so many shirts now, like where you'll go, and it'll be like an abstract painting of like a rooster on a surfboard. And then the band's name is written in some, like, messed up font that you can't even read. And you look at the shirt,

And you're like, that's an ugly shirt. And I don't even know what band we're representing here. And I don't know. I feel like so many band t-shirts are like that now. Like, they're so abstract. And I don't know if there's like a certain, like, we don't want to conform to the cliches of what a band t-shirt is. But I think you got to think of a band t-shirt like a genre film.

Like if you're making like a bank heist film, you got to show the bank robbery. You know? Or you got to show people at least like, you know, counting money and shooting guns. You got to have something that connects to the genre so that people that enjoy the genre can appreciate the tropes that they associate with that genre. And yeah, you do it in an artful way. You don't just do it by rote.

But you got to, you know, give the red meat of the genre to the audience. And I feel like with band T-shirts, there are tropes to the band T-shirt that a lot of bands are just totally disregarding. and you end up with like an art project t-shirt. I don't even know what the hell this is. And I feel like that has become the new normal with band t-shirts. And I'm not a fan of it, Ian. And I don't want to buy these shirts.

I think they're ugly and they don't represent the thing that I want to represent, which is the band. Yeah, I'm just in it for a graphic t-shirt that's, you know, band-adjacent. Like maybe it's because like the sort of band t-shirts I would wear if they were to put the tour on the back, it would be like, I don't know, five dates on the West Coast. That would be great.

You could make a joke of that. That would actually be really fun. That would actually be really funny. That would be funny. Like the, you know, band like, like, super like DIY emo band, like, Albert the Nurse, something like that. Just do like a tour t-shirt for like the three shows

in like the Philadelphia metro area they played in June. That would be kind of sick. I mean, I would prefer that to like some, again, like some weird abstract painting. that your friend did that like has no connection to the band at all. It's just a bunch of weird lines on it. And then, you know, maybe you say the band's name on the back, but it's like in some weird scrawl that no one can read.

I don't know. I don't, I'm not a fan of that. You got to like study the greats. Look at Iron Maiden T-shirts. You got to get like an, you got to get your own version of Eddie. You got to have the cool typography that Iron Maiden has. And you go to the shows.

Everyone's wearing the Iron Maiden T-shirt. shirts. That's why, because they're cool shirts and they represent the band. They're not some, like, weird art project that your friend did and you're doing them a favor. Now you're going to your merch table. Like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to your friend, but like, that's garbage. We don't want that. We want something that says you as the band. So anyway, look, this is the beginning of merch. The end of merch, GQ declared the end of merch. We are reinstituting the beginning of it. And the beginning is in Iron Maiden. Exactly. Go back to the classics. Take that shit to the bank. Study the classics.

Be like Iron Maiden. And look, yeah, you don't need a skeleton on your shirt, but like they knew how to brand. They knew cool font for the band name, an image, a logo that people know is you, some tour dates on the back, Bing, Bang, Boom. Your merch is 100% better. You're going to sell way more of it rather than this abstract, ugly T-shirt crap that I just see all the time. So maybe I need to write for Gia. This is the article that I need to write.

Or maybe I'll just rant about it on a podcast and people can disregard it. So let's talk quick about I Saw the TV Glow and the film soundtrack. This is a film, of course, directed by Jane Sauerbron, which has become one of the more discussed movies of 2024 so far. I have not seen this film. You saw it this week. so I'll let you comment on the movie itself, but I'm interested in the soundtrack for this movie, which I'm interested in it for a couple reasons.

One is because I think it's a soundtrack that really feels like a summation of what indie rock is in the 2020s. It feels like an album that people will revisit in 10 or 15, or 20 years when they talked about what music was like in the indie world at this moment. And you can tell that just from the track list. You have Francis Quinlan, you have Caroline Polichick, Barty Strange, J-Sub, Lorraine, the Weather Station, Bibi Bridgers appears on a track. You know, in the same way that we talk about, you know, soundtracks of the 90s or the 2000s being

de facto compilations of like what music was like at that time. It feels like this soundtrack very consciously was constructed to do that. So it's interesting, I think, for that reason. The other thing, this is more of like a meta thing, but it seems like Jane Sauerbrot, who curated the soundtrack herself, made it almost like a soundtrack that comments on those soundtracks of the 90s and 2000s, like you read comments from her about it. Because her film is set in the 90s, and it has, from what I understand, like, the feel of, like, a lot of the pop culture of that time.

And soundtracks were a big deal back then in a way that they're not really a big deal now. So it is like a throwback to that time. And it's also kind of commenting on that time. And the way that it is like those old soundtracks, not. the way that it's not, I think is another interesting thing. Like, again, I haven't seen the movie, but I know it's, it's basically like a horror film, right? Like, sort of like a postmodern horror film in a way.

Yeah. It's like psychological drama, horror, kind of sort of. I mean, I've seen, it's essentially like a trans allegory, kind of also, like, I've heard it describes like kind of a tone poem in the sense. that, you know, the plot, like, there's really not a lot of spoiler alerts that can be given for this movie because, you know, it's more about vibe than it is about plot. It's so funny. There was like five people in the theater when I saw it. And at the end, like the most stereotypical person you would imagine seeing this movie, like a zoomer wearing cattyers,

just stood up and said, what? And I tweeted about that and that was like, you know, like 2,000 people have liked it. I think that was kind of the intended effect. It's sort of like Donnie Darko maybe for like a new generation. But yeah, I think it's just kind of a collection of like vibes and storytelling. And you know, it's got 824 behind it. It's got Phoebe Bridgers in the movie. Fred Durst has a cameo just to kind of drive home the 90s metaness about it. But I mean, I think the soundtrack is super important to it. It's, you know, you know, you. You know, you know, clear the director sees it that way. Her previous movie had an Alex G, mostly intramental score, which, you know, a lot of indie artists do.

But this one seems to have, you know, a bespoke kind of aesthetic. You know, when you mentioned some of the people who are on it, it's sort of like, it's sort of, it is a encapsulation of like where Indy Rock is in 2024, which is to say kind of some people call it Sapphic indie. but it's more like very 90s nostalgic, but also like overtly queer, but kind of blasé about it, where it isn't like, oh, hey, here's this thing. It's not a couple of straight white people and the couple. It just doesn't really think much to mention it.

Because the show itself, the pink opaque, which the movie centers around, it's sort of a combination of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, supernatural, and the X-Files, you know, all of which, you know, have been re kind of assessed as being, you know, like allegories for, you know, gender confusion or things of that nature. And, yeah, I think that I say, I'm saying this as a positive in that it's extremely

2024 in the way that Garden State was of its era and very earnest about it in a way that might seem dated in the near future. For example, there's a Fruitopia machine that appears. And, you know, like that's a signifier of. of like mid-1990s, like culture. Like this is where the cultural trends led us. And I'm wondering like how this movie might be viewed in four years. I mean, it's a great time capsule.

And I say date. I think dated is a term that is underappreciated. I think there needs to be movies that are dated and trends that are dated just so we can remember what things were like in their most accurate terms. And I really hope that this, you know, kind of like we were discussing with, you know, ticket prices and merch that this movie can inspire future films to be very intentional about curating soundtracks. But I also kind of worried this is a bit of a unicorn in having, you know, the money to put together a movie like this and a soundtrack like this. I just hope that it inspires more people to be as thoughtful and as intentional of putting it together because the soundtrack's also really good.

It has a cover of Broken Social Scenes for a 17-year-old girl that does kind of a spooky, scary take on it, but this actually pulls it off, which is extremely fucking rare. I'm also a little worried that song is going to become like the I'm on fire slash wicked game of early 2000s indie rock. but it pulls it off. Yeah, I mean, you bring up Garden State as a film reference point for this movie. I also think it might work as a reference for the soundtrack, which if you think of Garden State as an album, I mean, that was capturing a moment and time in indie music,

whether you like that album or not. It is emblematic of what people were into in the moment. And here we are, you know, I guess I think it's 20, years after that movie came out. I think Garden State was 04. It was around 0405. And you have an album that covers, I think, a similar indie aesthetic where I'm going to use

this term not in a non-judgmental way, but it's kind of like middle of the road indie rock, really. I mean, I think a lot of these artists you could probably put under that umbrella. And it made me think, like, could you make like an equivalent, you know, if this is like the Garden State,

equivalent soundtrack. Would it be possible to go the alternate route and make a soundtrack that was more like the crow? You know, like a more sort of gothy, dark soundtrack? Because I mean, there is darkness

on this soundtrack, but I mean, do you understand where I'm going with this? Well, absolutely. I feel like there is a new, there is a new crow movie happening in August, and I don't know what the soundtrack's going to be like, but yeah, I wonder if they would go more

Because I feel like with the crow, now people associate that with kind of like a metal type aesthetic. But I just wonder like if you could have made a soundtrack like the crow that had kind of dark-hued indie and alternative rock on it. And I don't know if you could in the same way because there were like really popular bands on the crow soundtrack. I don't know if there's like enough popular artists that would fit that definition in 2024. I mean, maybe like suicide boys in turnstile or, I think it would have to be that sort of grade A sort of thing. It would probably be, you know, like maybe JPEG mafia, that or Danny Brown. I think it's possible. The new Crow movie stars FKA Twigs, so maybe you'd have that element in there as well.

I would love to know what the new version of the Rollins band cover of Ghost Rider would be. I listened to that song regularly. It was the dumbest song I had ever heard when I first got the soundtrack when I found out it was a cover of the suicide song. It's the funniest song I've ever heard. If you get nothing outside of this episode, please listen to the Rollins band cover of Ghost Rider. But yeah, I do, I don't know if like that's, it's not that kind of horror film. I saw the TV boy. I think it was well suited.

But yeah, I would love to see, you know, basically the Crow part two, trying to do. do that. Like, who is the Stone Temple pilots of the current day? Who is, you know, the nine-inch nails? Who is the Pantera and the cure? There is a lane for this. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, went to go first? All right. So, I feel like there's been a theme over the past couple of weeks where I've talked about, like, how inundated we are with just, like, completely mediocre shoegaze bands. and yet every time I reach recommendation corner, I prop up a Shugays record I do like.

This one is from a band called Drag. It's got two A's in it. They were recently opening up for Wednesday, a show that I missed because I was out of town. But they're from L.A. And they, I've seen them compared, of course, to My Bloody Valentine and Slow Dye, but there's also like a bit of metal in there

and also Stereo Lab. I think oftentimes people just throw Recommend it if you like at the wall But their new EP Actually the Quiet is nice Does really interesting things With shoegays And it does it in kind of a high budget way

Which I feel like a lot of Shoegaze doesn't really touch I do you know I didn't think about this until right now This is a sort of thing that could be On a Crow 2024 soundtrack In the way that like the cure were or some other bands of that ilk might be.

It's like dark, but it's poppy, and it's got like electronic elements, which sounds like a lot of shoegays, but I think these guys are doing them in a very interesting way, which just immediately stands out. Like, the upshot of just having a billion shoe gaze bands, you know, gathering like a million monthly fans

that you can tell what the good stuff is super quick, and this is up there. So it's an EP, it's about 20 minutes, shouldn't take you much time to listen to, and I'd recommend it. Drag, actually, the coalite is nice. I was thinking I would put dive on my modern-day Crow soundtrack. Oh, yeah, totally. They would work really well for that.

I'm going to go with a release that came out earlier this year that I've only recently come around on, just having the time to dive into it because there's a lot of music in this release. It's called 1985. It's a box set from a band called The Waterboys. who I've talked about on this podcast before. We did our Indycast Hall of Fame episode, and I inducted their 1988 album, Fisherman's Blues,

into the Indycast Hall of Fame. This box set, it's a six-disc box set that they put out. I think it was in the spring. This is connected to another Water Boys album that came out, I think right before Fisherman's Blues, it's called This Is the Sea. And this is a... fascinating box set because it really takes you into the making of this record. It gives you

outtakes. It gives you demos. It gives you live tracks. And in a similar way to like what that Yankee Hotel Foxxat box set did when that came out last year, it really feels like a documentary about the making of an album. And this album in particular, it's a fascinating record. I like the record a lot. In a way, though, I like a lot of the material that didn't make the record. Like, these embryonic versions that you hear of these songs, in a lot of ways, to me, are more compelling than what it ended up on the album, which is like a very big sounding 80s record. Like, it's a very 80-s sounding album. And I say that mostly complimentary, although sometimes it gets a little too blustering. But, you know, I think I've said this about the Water Boys before.

If you are a war on drugs fan and you don't know the water boys, you need to get into this band because you will realize how much the war on drugs are influenced by this band, whether it is the sound of Adam Granduccio's vocals, the way that they use atmospherics, the way they use saxophone, it's all coming from the water boys. It is a very, I think, pronounced connection. And it's something that I think Adam himself would acknowledge. He's covered Waterboy songs in the past. But this box set, you know, again, it's six discs. There's a lot of music to absorb. But I think a lot of that music is great. And again, the documentary aspect of it, I think, is really interesting.

It really kind of shows you what bands go through when they make a record, how things can evolve over time. So definitely recommend it. Again, the box set is called 1985. And the band is the Water Boys. Yeah, Mark Richardson wrote a really great Sunday review for pitchfork about This is the Sea. And if you like War on Drugs like I do, you like the Water Boys. And I think that this band, it just dawned on me like how much this band is a connective point between not just War on Drugs, but I would say even stuff like Japan droids that's largely about like how fucking awesome music is.

I think there's that passionate kind of cor, you know, I say this lovingly kind of corny element about the power of rock music. and the water boys. It just, I heard that album, Fisherman's Blues in This Is The Sea, it's like, where the fuck has this been all my life? So I'm actually kind of stoked to check that out too. Yeah, it's very hard on your sleeve. Not a lot of repressed emotion with this band. It's all being vomited out emotion into your face.

And again, in the best possible way. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.