Indiecast - The Cure vs. Ticketmaster, Best Debut LPs, and New Albums By Yves Tumor + Black Country, New Road

Episode Date: March 24, 2023

In this week's Indiecast, Ian and Steve share their thoughts on two new albums. The first is Yves Tumor's long-winded album Praise A Lord Who Chews But Which Does Not Consume; (Or Simply, Hot Between Worlds) (yes, that's the full album title), which is not quite experimental enough to be avant-garde but not quite catchy enough to be a pop record (44:40). The second is Black Country, New Road's Live At Bush Hall, an album recorded after the band's lead singer departed (53:11).But before they get into the meat of the episode, Steve and Ian dive into Ticketmaster's latest controversy and how it's kinda, sorta, but not really surprising how quickly The Cure's tour sold out (21:53). They briefly recap SXSW and a certain viral artist who people accused of “quiet quitting” during her set (1:30). Plus, in honor of Steve's list of the 100 best debut albums, they talk about which albums didn't make the cut (31:37).In this week's Recommendation Corner (1:03:36), Ian shouts out the memoir Stay True by Hua Hsu. Meanwhile, Steve gives props to Dazy's power pop EP Otherbody.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 131 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about new albums by Eve's Tumor and Black Country New Road. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I wanted to know that if my take stink this episode, it's because I'm quiet quitting. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Yeah, look here. I served with Salem at the Fatum Fort. I knew Salem at the fader fort and Pink Panther's, you're no Salem at the fader fort. Oh, man. Shots fired. Yeah.

I mean, kids these days, man, they don't know a good festival meltdown. They don't know of waves at primavera. They don't know about, you know, like snail mail early South by Southwest. They don't know about CMJ. Wow. They're trying to hype this half-ass Pink Panther show as like this, I don't know, like a turning point for the culture. And we're going to forget about it in five days.

You're like James Murphy in losing my edge, except it's all shitty shows. We need to fill people in on what we're talking about here because no one's going to know anything related to South by Southwest at this point. There was a performance at South by Southwest, which, by the way, took place last week. And I don't think any of our listeners knew that because this is a festival that I guess it's still going. I don't know. It totally is still going. It's a very strange phenomenon to talk about South by Southwest in 2023. I know on my timeline, I did not see any discussion about South by Southwest at all, except there was a blip about this show by Pink Pantheras who, have we talked about Pink Panther on this show?

Are people going to know who this is in our world? I think so. I think I put her in recommendation corner. I'm generally speaking a fan. Okay. I think I compared this artist to like a TikTok pop joist manner because like all their songs are like a minute and a half. Like they put out like this EP that was like nine songs 17 minutes or something like that.

Yeah, but like it's not it's not pop punk. It's sort of like this indie R&B type. Yeah, that is exactly what it is. Anyway, Pink Panther's Big Tenth. TikTok sensation. For whatever reason, she was booked to play one show at South by Southwest. And I don't even want to say the video went viral. Did the video go viral?

Was it that big of a deal? I mean, she went out there and she stunk up the joint, essentially. Like, lip syncing. Completely half-assed it. It was like a half-hour set, lip-sync the whole time. Between song banter was like mumbled into the microphone. and there was this idea online that because South by Southwest is notorious for paying very little or not at all for the artists that perform at these showcases that she was quiet quitting. This idea that you do a job, but you don't do it very well because you're not being compensated the way you should.

This is something that's gained traction in our late capitalist society. Our British post-punk bands writing songs about this, about Quiet Quitting, this phenomenon. I feel like this would be something that they'd talk about. Anyway, I hate the term Quiet Quitting. Can I just say that? Do I sound like an old man saying that? I just feel like Pink Panther, they played a bad show. They stunk up the joint.

We don't have to qualify it as... something that they did on purpose in order to protest working conditions at South by Southwest. I mean, the larger question is, if you already have a following that you've built online, what is the point of performing at South by Southwest in 2023? I feel like we talked about this last year and maybe even the year before that, but we're well past the point of anyone gaining anything from being at South by Southwest. It seems like, if anything, you're going to be hurt by it because you do a a bad performance or maybe you write a blog post complaining about how literally you get paid

and people get upset with you that happened to Wednesday last year. What is the thinking here? Do you know, do you have any theories on this? Look, you can't put a price on the publicity that comes with being in like the 23 bands who killed it at South by Southwest article that pops up on like, I don't know, like Brooklyn Vegan. Shout to Brooklyn Vegan. But like I just love the people who like are still writing about this as if it is like 2009. But I mean, I think the interesting thing about Pink Panthers is like if you, if you see it less as like a protest against South by Southwest and maybe like a protest against like whoever the fuck decide to send her there.

Like her entire rise to fame. And I'm like, this is a famous person. Like they have a big hit with Ice Spice right now, like an actual pop hit. And they more or less bypass the entire major label machinery. and to begin with, they got big on TikTok, they got signed. And what do they stand again by going there and playing to, like, people with laminates? I mean, it all traces back to, you know, the local age song, all the kids are right. It always comes back to local age.

But this is just like another one of those you've soiled the good name of Star Blitz promotions type moments. It's there's no, there's like nothing sacred about South by Southwest that this artist, you know, breach by putting on a half-ass show where they probably had like 10 minutes to sound check. You know, I just, I don't know. I would love to hear from people who had like positive experiences in South by Southwest because like all we hear are like, yeah, they paid us with like this $200 like drink voucher. And we lost $2,000 on this trip. I want to hear like the, I really want to hear the positives at this point because otherwise I'm really grasping at straws to describe like why someone who actually has a following and has major label backing needs to slum it out with,

you know, the slum it out with like a 20, like a 20 band exploding in sound showcase, you know? Well, I mean, again, there was this history at South by Southwest that bands would go there and they would play a bunch of showcases and all these music critics would get excited about them and that would help springboard them. into their album cycle, oftentimes their debut album. So if you're trying to build buzz,

this was something that I think was legitimate in the 2000s, maybe even into the early 2010s. I remember when I was at South by Southwest, around like 2010, 11 or so, you know, there would be instances of someone who, of artists that would just be on all these bills. And you feel like there'd just be like wallpaper coverage for like a week of this artist,

and then they'd put out their debut, like, two or three months later, and it just seemed to be, like, setting the tone for all these ecstatic reviews that they were going to be getting. But I don't remember the last time that happened. I mean, I think that it's been a long time. One thing I learned, I don't think you know that, or I don't know if you know this or not, but did you know that Penske Media bought, like, a 50% stake in South by Southwest?

Like the motor oil company? No, Penske. No, no. No, Penske Media. They own like Rolling Stone. They own Billboard. They own variety. I've never heard of Penske Media. I sound like such a fucking Rube right now. Yeah, they are, they're like, they're like the big dog now in like, you know, music journalism. I mean, they're kind of scooping up all of these magazine brands here, you know, when we're in this sort of weird stage about like whether these magazines are even going to exist in 10 years. but no, it's Penske Media.

They own 50% of South by Southwest. And I did think it was interesting that you did see Rolling Stone cover South by Southwest this year. There was some Billboard coverage and variety coverage. So, you know, I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole there,

but I don't think that's like unrelated to the same company owning those magazines and them also covering this festival that, again, I feel like, is past its relevance as an industry showcase for bands and for bands going there hoping that they're going to, you know, break big. Did you ever go to South by Southwest? Did you ever cover it? No, there was a year where, like, I want to say like 2011. Like I was out of like my real job. My life was just like really up for

grabs and like actually considered like moving to Austin. I ended up moving to Silver Lake instead. That was a far better move. But yeah, I kind of really wanted to go. but, you know, it never made sense. The economics never made sense. The party scene never made sense. And like the reason I like went to Coachella year in, year out for eight straight years and never did Bonnaroo or never did South by Southwest is because Coachella ends at midnight. Like there is you, it's, it's really the festival for early risers. I can't envision myself like being out at like one o'clock in the morning like watching, you know, watching the eighth band on.

on polyvinyl. Shout to polyvinyl, but they're just the first label I thought of. I can't see that generational show or whatever. I went there like, I'm trying to remember like two or three times, you know, around like 2010,

like on either side of 2010. So like from like 09 to 12 was like my... Well, that's peak. Yeah, of covering it. And it was fun. You know, I met Bill Murray at a Jack White show. and I also had an extremely awkward encounter with John C. Riley at the same Jack White Show.

That's about all of my big memories from South by Southwest. So other than that... What more do you need? Yeah, I mean, it was fun. But, I mean, even at the time, I remember thinking, oh, there's like an unspoken thing here among journalists that, like, we're lucky that our publications have paid for us to go to this thing that has dubious value as something that we need to cover. I feel like that was true even then Because for every act

That you could maybe say Broke because they Did really well South by Southwest I mean there's You know Upteen bands that were like way overhyped Because someone had too many drink tickets at a showcase And they had to justify

You know their expense account So they just like wrote this You know recap that nobody read You know I mean that That was just the story of it back then. We have a lot of topics to get to in this episode. Before we get to that, we have to dive into our mailbag. And this was actually a letter that we were going to talk about last week, but we ran out of time.

And like I said last week, we have this backlog of emails that we need to get to. Thank you all for writing us, by the way. You know, we often get emails that we don't even read on the air just because we don't have time. Or maybe just because the email is kind of weird. It doesn't work. But mostly it's because we don't have time. But thank you all for writing. And it's so great to hear from you.

We love our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Do you want to read this letter? Yeah, let me read this one. So this comes from Colin from Missoula, Montana. And for long time, first time. Thank you. I love that, even though we're not a live calling show.

I think it still applies with a mailbag. Oh, yeah. So, Colin, is paraphrasing a tweet he saw a while back about how filler is just a term music critics used for songs they don't like. When you guys use the word filler, how do you define it? Is it even a useful term of music criticism? Seems to me like the term isn't as in vogue as it was in the days when you bought a CD based off an awesome single, just to find the rest of the album was garbage. But I've still seen it thrown around. When do you know a song is clearly filler verse well? The artist was clearly trying, but this song isn't for me. When I tried to think of albums with filler, my mind went right to the killers, Samstown.

But what if Brandon Flowers and a bunch of killers heads are out there riding for this river is wild? If that's the case, maybe it's not the filler, I think it is. Anyway, thanks for all the music wrecks and good times. Clarity is a 10. I'm assuming they're talking about Jimmy Eat World and not Zed, but you never know. Ah, man, I love this question. This is a very granular type question. Like we're getting into like the nitty gritty of music critic jargon

where we're going to be deconstructing the utility of the word filler. Just to address Collins' last point, of course fillers in the eye of the beholder. You know, there are no songs, I think, that are expressly made just to take up space on a record. Although I do think, you know, when we talk about the early days of Albuquer, albums, you know, albums from the 60s. I do think it was common back then where you'd have a band, they'd have one hit, and they'd put that hit song at the top of the record, and then the rest of the record would just be covers of like Motown songs or old blue songs or something.

Like Camp Town Races or Tom Dooley or whatever. I don't know they're doing Camp Town Races or anything, but that's a little too old time. You know, but, you know, doing, you know, maybe they cover like, please Mr. Postman. I mean, even like early, like, even like early Beatles albums, I feel like have some of that, you know, like where you've got like six or seven original songs and then a bunch of covers that are good, but, you know, they're not what the hits are. It's clear that this is something that was recorded to round out a record.

Do you use the word filler in your reviews? because I use the word filler. I think filler has use even now, but I'm curious to hear what you have to say about that. Yeah, it's not quite the vestigial organ that of the music criticism that Collins sang. But like, I think back to a very,

you want to get granular. Let's go back to like 2014 with that one perfect pussy album that had like three noise songs at the end of it. And I would hear rumors that they just like literally put that on there. it's filler so that they could fulfill their contract with an LP and not an EP. But I think with filler, the way I use it, I think one of the most, like, one of the platonic ideals for filler is

electioneering from OK computer. Like that song has the reputation of being like a filler track, which is interesting because it's not the song before it fitted or happier, which is like a one-minute vocoder experiment. I think with filler, the difference between filler and like the experimental track that doesn't work is that filler is like the song that never gets played live. It's a little bit more straightforward. I think filler is actually more interesting to think about on like a classic album as compared to like something like I love that you brought up Samst Town and not hot fuss. One of the most notoriously filler albums of the 21st century. I disagree with that.

You know, people, we're going to get to. this in a minute when we talk about debut albums because I feel like that album has a reputation for being front-loaded, which I think is true, but I don't think Side 2 is filler. Like Midnight Show, Andy You're a Star, songs like that, I write for those songs. Okay, I'll ride for Andy, you're a star. Why not? Midnight Show is a great YouTube rip-off. It sounds like something that would have been on war. So I'll defend that song, but anyway, continue. Yeah, so I also think Amity on Elliot Smith's X-O. It's like typically like the more straightforward rock song that, you know, like doesn't

quite move the needle as the rest of the album. You know, if you want to get like into the emo realm, crown candy on your my god, house broken on home like no place is there. It's usually later on like around track number eight or so. There was one Sun Kill Moon song called track number eight where he talks about the, it's like in the process of writing a filler song. where he's like, yeah, this one's not so great. It's going to be track number eight.

You never put the filler up front. So, yeah, just generally speaking, it's like a song where the artist doesn't really push themselves. And it never ends up in the live set. If it ends up in the live set, then it becomes non-fi. Even like the most tossed-off song can become not filler by popular decree. Yeah, I was thinking about this. And I think when physical media was still the primary way,

that people listen to music, what was filler was probably easier to figure out. You know, like, especially in the CD era when albums ballooned from being 12 songs to like 18 songs long. Yeah. It was pretty obvious, like, what the singles were and what the songs were towards the end of the record that were, okay, we recorded these, we might as well just put them on here because we need to fill out 79 minutes on this disc. But I think now, you know, when we talk about streaming platforms, you know, it got me thinking about how there's this phenomenon.

I don't know if the phenomenon is the right word, but I mean, there's been really long albums lately. You know, the latest example, like Morgan Wallen just put out a 36 song album and it's the biggest record of like early 2023. And I do think that when you look at the economics of streaming, And I think we've seen this like in hip hop already, like Drake has mastered this, that if you just put a lot of songs on your album, you're going to get more streams, which if you get more streams, then you're going to get more money. You know, like there is an economic imperative, really, with padding your albums with filler now that there wasn't back in the day of physical formats when, again, it maybe seemed more obvious when there was filler.

But, you know, a CD was going to. it cost the same no matter how many songs were on it. That being said, it sounds to me like you never owned a no limit rap album because those were like, imagine if a rap, like every album was Metallica's load where like they advertise like you're going to get 79 minutes of music. And I think that was like an incentive. Yeah. But I mean, I think the idea then though was we're going to charge you $18 anyway.

So we might as well give you 79 minutes of music. But they were also going to charge you $18. if you only put 45 minutes of music on. Like the artist wasn't necessarily going to make more money because there's more songs on the record. Whereas now there is an incentive to, yeah, just throw a bunch of songs on your record because it will, in all likelihood,

increase the number of streams. And then you're going to have more money from those streams. And for artists at that level, at the Morgan Wallin level, and I say level in terms of his commercial appeal, not his character or anything, you know that's going to pay off he's going to get a couple

you know more mill in his pocket because of these the super bloated record that he just put out yeah there's definitely like a game there's like a gamesmanship in streaming that I have no idea about

but I do know that like you put out the album that's like 80 minutes long then you put out like the deluxe version that has like 20 more minutes and or maybe you know what maybe Drake or Morgan Wall

and really think that they're like you know Robert Pollard and that every single song they make needs to be put out there in the world. I can't speak for their mindset.

Yeah, you never know. I was just thinking about that Black Puma's album where they put out like one album, right? Are they still? Yeah, that's a Grammy nominating machine.

Like, we're going to be in 2028 doing this podcast talking about like how the super deluxe version of a B-Sides collection of the fun Black Puma's album is up for best new artists. Yeah, that,

That is like the special edition, you know, it's totally redefined that because normally, you know, you'd have like Interpol turn on the bright lights. You have like the 10th anniversary edition, the 15th anniversary edition, the 5th anniversary of the 10th anniversary edition. But, you know, Black Puma's, they've really kind of picked up that baton and run with it with their first record. So Billy Corrigan's got nothing on this guy when it comes to like repack. packaging the outpakes. Let's get to the meat of our episode now. Yeah, speaking of filler, none here. None here, man. And we're well below the 30-minute mark, by the way. So good on us. I want to talk to you about the cure

and their upcoming tour here because this has been getting a lot of attention because of the whole ticket master debacle. This is like another ticketing controversy going on. For those who don't know, the cure they're going on tour this spring going into summer and Robert Smith the lead singer and singer-songwriter from the cure

he made a point of keeping ticket prices low. I think on this tour like the cheapest tickets are like $20 which is like an incredibly low price for like a big ticket arena rock tour and basically ticket master you know screwed him over in terms of like wanting to take care of

fans by like adding all these extra fees and just doing what that company does at this point, just just gouging people left and right. And this has been an ongoing story and we could talk a little bit about the ticketing thing here in a minute, but I'm really intrigued by like what the cure status is in 2023 because obviously this is a great band. Obviously they have like a really strong back catalog and they I think have a reputation for being like a really strong live act. But I have to admit, I was like a little surprised by just how big this tour is.

You know, I've said this before on the show that if you sell out an arena in Los Angeles or New York, if you have any kind of audience, you should be able to do that. You know, because there's enough people in those markets and, you know, the concert audience is huge in those areas. But here, like I live in the middle. the country, Twin Cities. The Kier is playing here in June. And that concert,

I don't know if it's sold out immediately, but it's sold out now, I know. It's sold out very quickly. And my sense is that this tour is sailing out everywhere. And, again, this is a huge band, but I wouldn't not have expected that kind of reaction.

I mean, because this is like, like, they're not as big as you, too? as far as bands from that era, but they're like maybe like right below that? I mean, are you surprised by this at all? Well, I think this gets into,

you know, what it means to be a cure fan as opposed to what it means to be a U2 fan. Like we talked about this a little bit when Interpol and Spoon went on tour together and we talked about like, well, here's why Interpol's the headliner because like Interpol,

even if they only made like one and a half great albums, like that's a band. You can shape your entire identity. around and that's absolutely the case with the cure like no matter if you're someone who just knows the singles or someone who you know goes really really back into the deep catalog if you like the cure like that is probably shaped your entire personality in a way where uh you're gonna go see that you're gonna go see the cure and more to the point like you never know when this is going to be the last cure show you're going to see not in the same way that you wrote about like bruce

Springsteen, but more that, you know, this is a, how much longer are they going to go for? And they only come around to tour every now and again. But yeah, I mean, this, I think they sold out like three nights in L.A. And they could probably sell out 10 if they really, really wanted to, just kind of based on what I've seen as most people's painful inability to get any tickets. I mean, the whole, this whole thing was, I mean, we've had a bunch of ticket master debacles, but like, none of the them mattered in the past because none of them happened to me. And this time around, man, I'm not like a, I can't, I don't have a local radio guy, like, you know, our big city slicker Steve, but I couldn't even get on the wait list for the wait

list because I don't think, I didn't sign up for the verified fan, uh, thing at Tickamasker. Like, I thought that was just the thing you did if you wanted to get like, I don't know, better seats or like a meet and greet with Loll Tollhorst or whatever. But no, like I got there at like the pre-sale day and it was like nope can't get in the queue uh and yeah that and then it was a wrap so i this just also like i don't know how much the tickets cost for face value but like i know that like two tickets um ended up costing a hundred ninety one dollars combined which honestly i'll pay that every fucking day of the week to see the cure but i don't know what the actual like ticket price was before fees yeah i mean for two tickets uh i mean depending on where

they are i guess i mean that doesn't it doesn't matter. But, you know, that doesn't seem that outrageous to me, considering what some of these tours are charging. I was thinking about this, I think you're right. There definitely is a level of devotion that Kier fans have that, like, lend to these types of tours doing really well. And, I mean, I feel like it has been a while since you've been able to see this

man without going to, like, Riot Fest or something. I saw them in, like, 2019 at this thing called Pasadena Daydream. which was this mini festival in Pasadena, as the name applies. And it was like them and deaf tones and pixies. It was a great set. But it wasn't like the cure playing for like three hours. Yeah, I think one thing about the cure that is pretty clear to me is that, you know, I think Robert Smith has done like a really good job shepherding this band's.

And I hate this term, but there's no other term for it. Like he's he shepherded the brand really well. Yes. And I know, I think there's going to be a Cure album at some point. Maybe they'll coincide with this tour, but they're essentially a greatest hit span at this point. Like, that's what people are going to be coming out to see. And clearly he's making an effort to treat his fans well on this tour with the ticket prices in ways that, say, like Bruce Springsteen hasn't seemed to do with his tour. Like Robert Smith has really made an effort to try to keep tickets low.

Like you said, like the Cure Live experience looks pretty. pretty awesome. I was looking at the last time they played here in the Twin Cities, which was 2016, it's like a 34 song set, like multiple encores. Like, it looked like awesome. It was like, man, okay, because I've never seen the care. And just looking at that set list, I'm like, if they do something like this, this is going to be an incredible show. I think you were talking about this, because you haven't gotten tickets yet. So you're going to be looking. I kind of sort of do. What Robert Smith did,

one of the things that he did to help out the fans is make it like these tickets non-transferable because that's supposed to, you know, kind of blunt the secondary market of stub hub or whatever. But what happened is I have a friend who got tickets, but like he double booked himself for the cruel world festival on the same day. And that's like a festival with like Susie and the Banshees echo in the bunny men, like all these bands that you also like if you like the cure.

So he's going to go to, he's going to go to that. And so I have like a, I have a claim on those tickets. We just got to figure out like how I'm going to pretend I'm a guy named Carlos and my wife is someone named Ariel. I mean, this thing has been something that's emerged in recent years, making tickets non-transferable. And it's designed, like you said, to, you know, discourage scalping. that if you buy a ticket, you have to either go to the show or transfer it to somebody else for what you paid for it.

Although I have heard stories about how because of search pricing, someone might pay a certain price. And then depending on what the demand is later on, the price lowers. And you don't have any control over where that price is. It's like an underwater mortgage. Yeah. So you may end up paying, you know, $200 and then only able to resell it for like $100, which is kind of a weird thing. I don't know. Ticketing is so, like, screwed up right now.

I don't know, like, how to fix it, really? Because there's all these kind of good-based solutions that come along. But because the system is so corrupt, either Ticketmaster themselves gouged customers or there's some. some sort of parasitic company that comes along to screw over customers. It's a very hard way to go about it. It seems like the only solution that works are these bands that have fan clubs, like Pearl Jam, for instance, and you can sell tickets directly to people,

although you still sometimes have this same sort of non-transferable issue going on. I don't know. Yeah, we just need to get, like if Taylor Swift, couldn't like move the needle and like Beyonce fans couldn't move the needle and like Bruce Springsteen fans couldn't move the needle like what like I mean Pearl Jam I mean I'm sure you don't need convincing that like Pearl Jam was right all along. Yeah shy of like I I'm just hoping and praying that like some Beyonce fan who was like screwed over because they couldn't pay $5,000 for like a Renaissance ticket like you know grows up becomes like a member of Congress and

like this is like their kind of Joker origin story for like taking down Ticketmaster. I mean, like let's use these like, let's use these Stan energies for good. You know what I mean? All right. So I wanted to talk to you about debut albums and your favorite debut albums. Because I wrote a story this week for Up Rocks in which I wrote about my 100 favorite debut albums. This was like a massive column that took me weeks to write and to research and things. figure out. It was like 13,000 words. And I think it went over pretty well. Of course, there were

disagreements with it. I just wanted to run over quick, like the biggest complaints I got about things that were not on the list. The first Cars album from 1978 as the one with just what I needed and best friends girl, that was by far the one I had the most complaints about. And I feel bad about that because it was supposed to be on my list and I don't know what happened. it somehow mistakenly got left off. I mean, I'm writing about like 100 albums, so it's easy to track. And it's just you, so. And then the other, the two other big ones, which are more pertinent to the IndyCass universe,

are the Arctic Monkeys first record. I didn't put on my list. And that's one that I considered putting on. But I like the Arctic Monkeys, but I kind of like their later records more, even though their first one is the most critically. adored and most popularly adored. Is it? I think among...

More so than AM? Well, that's a good question. I feel like among... I feel like that's sort of like a Californication versus like blood sugar, sex, magic sort of thing where it's like, you know, version one, version two. I feel like among people who are maybe 10 years younger than us,

that that's a big record, the first one. And the thing I realized about myself as I was just, because I was pulling from all different eras for this, I was really trying to be representative. And I realized that I'm not really a fan of that post-oasis OTS-era Ladrock scene. So Jets, you prefer the second Jet album. That's the only reason they're not on. They're Australian.

Like Libertines. Close enough. Like Libertines up the bracket. Well, I would say like I would put Get Born on my list before Up the Bracket. I mean, I wouldn't put Get Born on my list. I don't really like the Libertines. They've never really moved me that much. And then the other one was Block Party.

Black Party, Selling Alarm wasn't on my list. And I've gotten in trouble for Block Party before. I had a tweet about Block Party once. I think I called Sattling Alarm, like a second-tier debut album. You did. That was all hell broke loose. Even you were dragging me over that tweet. Yeah, people were complaining about Block Party not being on this list on my behalf.

It's like you got like the Ian Cohen. defenders. And like, based on the criteria of your list, I don't know if I would even put, like, silent alarm on there. And not just because, you know, I think weekend in the city is, like, quite a good sophomore album. I just don't think it, like, really invented anything or is even that, like, popular. I think it's just, like, very popular amongst people who care deeply about what I have in the recommendation corner. Well, it's like, I put band of horses on my list, which I love, by the way. So that would be like my, you know, that's where I'm at as far as like mid-2000s rock albums, you know, like that's my block party. Although I guess you're, I mean, you are with both of those records.

So there's no, there's no binary for you. One thing that I was thinking about when I put this list together was like my top five are all albums from the 60s and 70s. And I felt pretty washed when I saw that. I was like, can I really do this? And really, like, my whole top 10, I think, is all... I think the newest album was, like, the Lauren Hill album. And then the rest were, like, all, you know, pre-90, basically. And I realized...

And we're talking about, like, kind of chalky choices. Like, I had Jimmy Hendricks up there. I had the Velvet Underground. I had, like, Patty Smith, Leonard Cohen, television, records like that. And I was looking at this, and I'm like, this is so chalk. But it's also, like, I can't... can't really put like Frank Ocean Channel Orange in here just for the sake of it. Or I can't just put, you know, which I love that record.

But I realize like I do have a bias toward like foundational records. Like it's hard for me to put something from the last 20 years above like the Velvet Underground. Because I just feel like that is so seminal in music history, along with still being great. And I want to get your take on that. I'm curious how you feel about that. And also, like, the idea that in 10 years, there probably won't be any albums from the 60s in, like, this kind of list.

Like, whoever is, like, the equivalent of me in 2033, who wants to make, like, their own, like, best debut albums list, I don't think they're going to put these albums from the 60s anymore. I think, and that's just because of the Overton. window of generations, you know, in the same way that I didn't have anything from the 50s on my list. You know, like people get farther away from this stuff. And look, these albums came up before I was born, too. But I was raised in a time where I was like, well, these are important records.

And I still think they're important. I still think that they're great. Like, what do you think about that? And, like, what are your favorite debut albums of all time? well you know i think what we're seeing here is clearly you know our boy steve being penske-pilled and like putting all the rolling stone classics they they got to you too i know i that's the thing i looked at that and i was like oh but at the same time i'm like fucking jimmy hendricks experience it's like this is a great fucking record like i'm not gonna not say that's

the best debut record in order to you know sort of make a point or strike a posture that is more interesting i don't know at the end And I was like, I still think this is the greatest thing. But it does feel like saying, oh, Citizen Kane is the greatest film of all time. Like, it's that kind of take. It's boring, even if it might be true. You know, that's always the dilemma, I think, when you make something like this. I think that, like, albums such as The Velvet Underground and, like, you know, Leonard Cohen, the ones you put in there,

like, if you're going to be the kind of person who makes a, like, a best 100 album debut albums list, like that's the kind of stuff you will be guided to. I think that like anyone who cares about, anyone who cares about like the concept of the canon enough to do this kind of project is probably going to be steered towards, you know, the very albums you mentioned. They always will be. But, you know, I mean, I have some,

I have some pretty, you know, obvious rejoinders to the list, you know, first of which is that, you know, I got to be mean, say, where it's like, Rites of Spring or Diary or American Football. Like, I got to do that. Like, I wouldn't be me if I didn't. Diary would be the one out of those you mentioned that would have been closest to making it for me. The one complaint, the one biggest complaint I have, though, is putting Coldplay's parachutes on there

when they clearly leveled up, not just with their next album, but 2005 is critically playing X and Y. I think that is like maybe the fourth or fifth best Coldplay album, but I'd like that's, I think that... I don't think fourth or fifth, but yeah, I think Russia Blood of the Head is better, probably. And then I would say like Vita La Vita or Viva La Vita would be. But yeah, you are the X and Y, truther. Oh, we are two years away from the 20th anniversary. But yeah, I love this list because like as far as like what I would do,

see, like, I would take it from like a far more shitposty angle. And also you have like a working knowledge of music that was made before 1997. So, like, I would put like the clap your hand say, yeah, album on there. Right. Just because like what album is better at being a debut? I think that, you know, one that pops up, I think the Stone Roses should have been on there in the same way that you put Lazz on there. Yeah.

Because like Stone Roses fell off so fucking spectacularly after. that. Although, but the laws never made another record. Like Stone Rose's tried to follow it up. With Second Coming, which I don't hate. I don't hate that record. Lutz res is kind of a good song. Yeah, Stone Roses was another one that

was, I heard a lot of complaints about. And I, and that would, you know, I don't feel bad about the Arctic Monkeys thing. I understand that that's an important record, but like for me personally, I don't love that album. But I

I'm a fan of the Stone Roses record and like that Carr's album. I love and I meant to put it on and I didn't. So that one I feel legit bad about but yeah Stone Roses I could see that that's a record I remember there was a time where that was considered like one of the greatest

albums of all time. I feel like in the spin universe I feel like that album would be in the conversation and then they did that Coachella reunion date that no one went to. And I feel like...

That was so sad. Yeah, and I feel like that kind of killed any lingering cred that they had. Like, through no fault of their own. I don't hold that against them that 21-year-old L.A. kids didn't want to see the Stone Roses, you know, 25 years after their album came out. But yeah, I feel like that kind of gave people permission to say, oh, yeah, this band's done. You don't really have to care about this anymore. It's funny because Stone Rose is like a, that album is kind of notorious going back to the idea of filler.

Like they have the song Don't Stop, which is just the previous song played backwards. But yeah, I think that's an album like ripe for rediscovery. I wish that like, you know, all the hardcore bands that are like trying to rip off like Oasis, maybe they should like start to like veer maybe a bit more towards that sort of earlier Manchester sound. but yeah otherwise I think like the the main takeaway from this like we're not the main takeaway or at least the thing I realized after having read this list is that I've never listened to a full Jimi Hendrix album the only one I have listened to is I don't know why I had the blue like there was the Jimmy Hendrix blues album like it was so fucking long and so boring yeah that's like

a compilation that just repackaging stuff yeah you know Hendrix is somebody that And this is true, I think, of some of the hip-hop records I wrote about, too, where you end up on so many lists that people just kind of yada, yada, yada past you. Like, okay, yeah, Jimmy Hendricks, best guitar player of all time, like, who cares? And in the same way that I think people do that with, like, Nas Il-Matic now. You know, like, we're done. Yeah. Like, that album was at the top of so many hip-hop lists that people just started rolling their eyes about it.

I think De La Sol had that. We talked about this, I think, last week. People would roll their eyes at three feet high and rising. Like, oh, this is like old head rap music. Thankfully, that's come around on De La Sol. But, yeah, I don't know. Jimmy Hendrix is someone who's in the canon, but also doesn't get listened to a lot.

And I don't know. I think he's, it feels, yeah, it feels corny to say that Jimmy Hendrix is great, but he is. I feel like he's so underrated in the, weird way, even though he's, like, still super famous and, like, considered part of that canon. For all the shit that, like, the doors get, Jim, Jim Morrison has proven to be, like, far more influential than Jimmy Hendricks on the indie world. And I love the fact that you, like, pointed out all the ways that, that Jim, Jim Morrison's, uh, influences spread.

But, I mean, yeah, our experience, like, it just reminds me of all the conversations I have with my wife about, like, all these movies, these classic movies I have, never actually seen. Right. But, like, I'm just aware of, you know, like, like, Ferris Bueller's day off. Like, I've never sat down and watched it, but like, I'm like, I've, I've, like, pieced it together through, you know, wisdom. And like, yeah, I never need to watch that.

So, yeah, maybe, maybe we're going to go to Hendricks cast. You listen to Hendricks before you watch Ferris Bueller. Hendricks has held up better than Ferris Bueller, I think. Well, I'd agree. Okay, let's talk about, like, Eve's two, like, two, Moore. I want to talk to you about this record. This came out last week. It's the fifth album from East Humor. Praise a Lord who choose, but which does not consume or simply hop between worlds. Can we just call this praise a Lord from here on out so we don't have to say this

whole album title? The story is in the soil, keep your ear to the ground, etc. This is like a Fiona Apple type album title. Or Fallout Boy type album. They got a parenthetical in the middle of their album title. I was curious to talk to you about this record. Again, it came out last week, and I've been listening to it quite a bit this week, and it's gotten really good reviews, as did the previous record,

which is having to a tortured mind, which was a record that I like quite a bit. And East Timor has had an interesting trajectory because started out in sort of like the experimental noise world, and over the course of five albums, has grown more and more mainstream, to the point where on this record, this sounds to me basically like a pretty straightforward like indie pop record.

Like if you had told me that this was like a new band that was influenced by Tame and Paula, like I wouldn't question that if I didn't know anything else about the record. And it reminded me of a conversation that we had recently about the band model actress and we also brought in Monoskin into that conversation, this idea of like sort of like sleazy rock music. and I think this is another example of that sort of building on what Ease Tumor was doing on having to a tortured mind

you know a lot of people compared that to Prince you know maybe even like Sly Stone that type of era of like sexy R&B rock you know there's a ride going on that that era of Slystone and this record is kind of doing

the same thing but it seems like a little bit cleaner and sonically it sounds great. It's a really good headphone record. This record was engineered by the guy who worked on my beautiful dark twisted fantasy. This also involves

Alan Mulder, who's like one of the great sort of architects of like 90s alternative rock working with, you know, like my Bloody Valentine and Smashing Pumpkins. But it's interesting with this record because I feel like it's not quite experimental enough to be considered

like avant-garde, but it's not quite catchy enough to be like a pop record. And I like the record. I feel like I like it probably more than you do just from like the little we've talked about it. But it does have like a little bit of that daddy's home thing where I wish it wasn't quite so tasteful. Like if you're going to make a sleazy rock record, I think you have to embrace trashiness full on.

And this isn't like a trashy record. It's like a classy, sleazy record. I'm wondering if you get the same vibe from this album. So this got me thinking, you know, maybe not so much about like monoskin or model actress, although I do get where you're coming from that, like ease tumors, like, you know, consider like at least compared to like other indie rock, like more subversive or sexy or what have you. But it made me think of a couple of artists that didn't make the debut album list and I think they could, such as like massive attack and by extension tricky.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And when I heard on the previous album, having to a tortured mind, it made me think of Maxenquay. I believe that's how it's pronounced, like much less hip hop in it. But it was this same sort of idea of this like disruptor, like taking, you know, tropes about glam rock and, you know, updating them for like a newer, cooler era. And like when I listen to that album, I'm just like, yeah, this sounds badass. this sounds cool, like this is what this album does. And, you know, as Eve's tumor has gone on and making, I guess, more like conventional records,

I'm, like, finding myself disappointed in it. And I'm also thinking of the fact that, you know, tricky as at one point, like one of the, like, just some of the most unimaginably coolest shit you could possibly hear. And then, like, five years later, he was having Ed Kowalczyk come on to his albums. Oh, man. It always comes back to live. Sipping on Likini's juice. Yeah, that's right, man.

I would love to hear Tricky talk about how, like, you know, the distance to hear blew his fucking wig back. But, you know, this album, to me, I find myself, like, if I had heard it without any sort of previous knowledge of these two, I'm like, this kind of sounds like, I don't know, current's influenced music or like the, like the music foxing was making in 2018, which means I should really like it. And I think that there's just this discrepancy between how it's so often described as like, oh, this is groundbreaking. This is like genre bending. This is the future of rock. And I'm thinking to myself similar to like how St. Vincent gets compared to like David Bowie almost reflexively because like, you know, she changes up her outfits for every record. I'm like where, where this gets compared to Prince? Like, where are the songs, man?

Like I think Jackie is my favorite East Timor song from like, you know, past like safe in the hands. of love because it has like a chorus and I'm like I listen to this album and you're right it sounds it sounds fantastic and I can't remember any of it yeah and I'm wondering if like I don't know this artist you know because like the possibilities of what they could do seem just boundless uh and safe for the hands of love and I feel like I don't know I feel like this sort of thing has kind of run its course and I'm like I just I just kind of don't quite understand how I mean, if you have like a very kind of narrow view of like what rock music should do, this is like some exciting shit. But otherwise, like I feel like this is the sort of album that almost has like a like a beach house style functionality to it.

Like I don't get the I don't, I wish it was more like abrasive or weird or just had, you know, just something that could, I don't know, be kind of memorable. Yeah, I mean, again, I think I like the record a little bit more than you do. but what you're saying does resonate with me because I think this record is good and I want it to be great and I don't think it quite gets to great and I'm going to bring back monoskin here when I was talking about model actress

I described them as like I think upscale monoskin and I do think that that's a lane that is still open out there that I think would be kind of appealing I think the problem with monoskin is that like they're just like a little too stupid you know like but I feel like the problem with like a lot of this indie music that is trying to kind of move into that sleazy sexy lane is that it's maybe a little bit too smart a little too

tasteful and we need a little more smell the glove in this you know not too much but yeah I yeah I I kind of wish this had like a little bit of monoskin in it where it had like a little that stupidity in it because I think you need a little bit of that to kind of convince be sleazy and have it be trashy and not tasteful. Because sleazy music, I think that's tasteful. It's like a fashion shoot of like a trashed hotel room, like where everything is in the right place. And like, yeah, you've technically done something decadent, but it feels like a little

calculated. And it doesn't have that sort of exhilaration that you get from this kind of thing. And again, this is a record that I enjoy when it's on, but I kind of agree with you. I don't know if it has like that grass. or that graber hook or guitar riff or whatever it is that is going to stick in your mind and want to make you want to listen to this over and over again. Yeah, like I would like to see them like open for, I don't know, Blink 182 or just like do something where like the out like it's at risk of being disliked or misunderstood.

But there's just something about it like in the kind of bubble of like, you know, people who mostly, you know, listen to rock music that like, like, isn't dumb. Yeah. That makes it seem a little disappointing. Yeah. Absolutely. Speaking of music that is not dumb, let's talk about the new live record from one of your

favorite bands right now, Black Country New Road, live at Bush Hall. And I feel like you should be the one to set this record up because basically, this is a band from England. They put out a record last year, one of your, was that your favorite record of the year? I would say, like, looking back on it, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, would be my number one album of 2022. Ans from up here, or ants from up there, I should say. Not up here, up there.

And they lost their lead singer. And then they went on tour and they like whipped up a whole new like albums worth of music and they played it on this tour. And you saw this tour last year. Yeah, they opened up for Black Midi, which was such a fun show. Like it, you know, most of them, I haven't had a lot of great concert experiences for many of the reasons that we've talked about, like in post-pandemic era, just people talking throughout and, you know, like, the crowdedness of, like, the live scene.

But this was, like, just a super impactful show to watch because, like, you were saying, they played entirely new music, like, the crowd had never heard before. And the crowd was, like, super into it. It's just not something you see a hell of a lot outside of, like, the jam band era or jam band world or, like, you know, early Animal Collective where they put out an album than just on the ensuing tour play like entirely new shit from the next album. And it gave me a lot of hope about where this band would go because, you know, they're clearly super creative, super prolific, have a really cool vision.

And I'm thinking, okay, this is going to make a really cool record and it'll probably come out sooner rather than later. And then what they decided to do is just put this, put these songs out as a live record. And they're like, yeah, this is not the album. but like this is the end of that era. This is what we're going to do to commemorate it. And I can't think of like a precedent or at least in the indie world for something like this. I saw some of it on YouTube.

I don't like the fact that it was interrupted by YouTube ads, not a not a ideal way to experience this record. But yeah, they're putting it out just as a conventional live record. And I'm curious, like, what you think about it. Because it sounds like you didn't see the show and, you know, don't have, like, that visual component to it. But, like, what, I'm curious, like, what you, like, where do you stand with this man right now? So, okay, my take on this band is that I think I, it's a lot easier for me to appreciate them

than it is to like or even, like, get what they do. And it really, this really was driven home with this record. because everything you're talking about sounds like really awesome. This idea that like, hey, they lose their lead singer instead of just like imploding like a lot of bands would. They're like, no, we're going to write all these new songs. We're going to play them on the road. And like the audience is really engaged with it.

And we're doing these adventurous things. And we're not playing it safe. And I'm like, oh, this sounds great. And just like what they're attempting to do with this sort of like huge sounding, almost like orchestral music. It's so ambitious. And again, like, I really respect the ambition on display. And I also appreciate how devoted their fans are because I feel like the people who love this band, like, they fucking love this band.

Like, this is true for you. And I've seen other people talk about them online. I have to say, though, that, like, I'm a little flabbergasted by this band and by, like, the emo appeal that they have. because they sound like so Renaissance fair to me. Like there are Jethro Tall levels of flute on this record. Look, I like Jethro Tall. I'll ride for Jethro. Were they on the debut list?

They were not on the debut list. I think they didn't really get going until like the second or third record. And I don't know. There's so much about this band that on paper seems great, but then I listen to the records and it seems so preface. precious to me. It's uncool, but not in the way that I often like uncool music. Uncool music to me is usually really earnest.

Maybe it's embracing unfashionable sounds, but it has a strong sense of self. This band just seems kind of nerdy to me. I don't know. I'm going to turn this back around on you because I feel like you used to clown fiery refurnaces back in the day. What's the difference between them in this band? Because I feel like, and look, I should ask this to myself because I like fiery furnaces. I'm a fan of them.

But I feel like they did a similar thing where it's this sort of like big top circus music where you're going from like one fragment of a song to the next and it's like catarwalling from like quiet to loud. You know, it has this sort of like wild carnival feel to it. that's something I enjoyed about the fiery furnaces, but with this band, it just has not connected with me. What is it about, like, what makes this band emo? Like, that's something I don't really understand.

Well, a lot of what made this album, like, like you were saying, so, have such a strong cadre of devotees is, like, the emo component of it, you know? Like, it's all, and by the same token, like, Isaac Wood is, like, the one reason. that anthraim up there was the one big ticket 22 album you could fearlessly mock online

without any repercussions even though this like yeah the guy left the band to like take care of his mental illness or whatever but like yeah fuck this um but it's not only him though I think like the music itself I think it was largely him like his lyrical approach and I mean well I don't know I because I feel like this live record is still like pretty great it's precious it's pretty grating for me but I understand someone who's

all in on this band is probably going to love it. But I do think they are love it or hate it kind of band. Regardless of who the lead singer is, I think they still are, even without that guy in this record. Yeah, I think the difference between this, you know, this iteration of the band and Isaac Wood is that ants from up there is like a real like emo album. It's like lyrically quite similar to like say like Los Campesinos where it's like heavily referential and largely about like a breakup and, you know, the guy struggles with mental illness and, you know,

it really struck me as like this kind of combination of like emo, but like mid-aughts orchestral indie. Now, and yeah, it's emo as fuck. Now that said, the difference between this and say fiery furnaces, well, first off, like, I'm always going to be mad at fiery furnaces because I spent $20 on blueberry boat and it fucking sucked. I mean, you know, it's like when someone borrows $20 and they never give it back, you never forget that shit.

That's a great record. That's a great record. I'm going to counter that. I would be annoyed if I read your review and I bought ants from up there if I was 14. There it is. And I think that, you know, the level of investment, people don't understand that these days. But, you know, I think with this album, it does lean harder on the kind of Renfair orchestration and the fact that it has like three or four lead vocalists as opposed to one. It was really cool to watch. But I think that listening to this album, I can't quite connect. with it to the same degree that I did answer them up there. I think Isaac Wood and like, you know, his for lack of a better, like grading voice and his grading lyrics, like I love them, but I could understand that. These artists, the

singers they have now are more conventionally pleasing and, you know, I, I need that shittiness, you know what I mean? Like, I need that sense that this might annoy people and you know, this makes me think more of like, you know, a band like jockstrap which is more, I think, conventionally critically appealing

and also several members of jockstrap are in this band. You know, I'm hoping that they develop like a more distinct personality in lieu of Isaac Wood. Like the last thing I want is for like Black Country New Road to kind of do that Eves Tumor thing where they are conventionally pleasing. You know, they're still like adventurous relative to like, you know, modern indie rock. but I want them to still have a kind of an annoying edge.

But like I totally see where like this is just kind of uncool. I'm here to tell you that they still have the annoying edge. I want to say more like kind of a personality angle. This one seems like a lot more like, you know, it's it's warmer. It's, you know, it's more like kind of hopeful. Like people are having a good time. Like I need that feel bad element. Yeah.

You know, again, I'm glad they exist. and I'm glad they're doing what they're doing. And I hope that I connect with it at some point, but I'm still not there. And I still think that they are, I think they're a long way away from being conventional, like at this point. This is still, I think, a pretty challenging record

and I think it's going to require someone to be on their wavelength to get this. And again, I think that's great. We've talked about this on this show many times. I like the idea of bands, that not everyone's going to get. And this is definitely a band that I do not get, but I appreciate that they have connected with people like yourself.

And bands that people don't get and feel comfortable saying, yeah, I don't get this. And like, not, like, I love how this band, like discussion about this band is not restricted to DMs. Yeah, exactly. And besides, if you don't like this album, they're probably going to put out entirely new album of music by the end of the year, given how fast they work.

All right, we've finished the podcast. part of this episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So I'll have to admit I've not been listening to a ton of music this week, but I do want to give a shout out to this up-and-coming Chicago emo outfit called Fall Outboy, who has a new... Is that out this week? Yeah, I believe it's out this week. Oh my God. We've failed our listeners. We got a... No, we'll talk about it next week. Yeah. But, yeah, I've gotten more into audiobooks, and one particular I want to bring up, this came out towards the end of last

year, Hwasu's Stay True. This is a book that I avoided through just real contempt prior to investigation shit. It's a writer I'm familiar with. I saw that they're a professor at Vassar and then Bard. Most of the praise I'd seen came from like New York based music writers and you know when I saw it, it's like, okay, it's like this reminiscence about being in college. in Berkeley. It's like that this doesn't sound like me. And like, come on. Like, who the fuck is this for except for me?

You know what I mean? And I've really found this book to be interesting as like, look, in some ways I can't relate to this guy at all. Like, he's talking about listening to Palvo in high school and like, you know, being like really into Bell and Sebastian and making zines and such. And, you know, it reminds me of this like alternative vision of college. Like I thought college is going to be like. like that for me, not just like, you know, getting fucked up off Steel Reserve and listening to

the strokes is this it. But also, the Pearl Jam just takes a beating in this book, Steve. Also, San Diego does. Oh, really? What does he say about Pearl Jam? Well, it's about his relationship with his friend, and I'm not all the way through it. This guy named Ken, who's like conventionally attractive, conventionally popular. He's in a fraternity at Cal.

And this guy, like, drives him around El Cajon, which is like where Lester Bangs is from. And looking for like the yellow lead better single. Basically, Pearl Jam is seen as this like super mainstream kind of frat boy music. And, you know, and it's, this, this book is really just about kind of analog friendship of the 90s. Like even if you don't relate necessarily to the, you know, going to amoeba or like making zines, it just reminds me of like what it was like to be that age and like talking. about music and, you know, dreaming of, like, making movies or, like, doing all these things. It's just, like, a really, it's a really great memoir to read where, like, it's sort of about music, but it's more about friendship and the way music defines it. I'm glad I listened to it.

I'm glad that I got over my own, like, kind of anti-NYC bullshit, because I've really, it's been a breeze to read, and I'd recommend it to anyone who, you know, is, it's, it's, it's, it, it, it, it, If you're our age, it's also a lot more resonant. Because it's like right before the internet became a thing. Well, you know, I consider this podcast Arzine, Ian. This is Arzine that we're putting together with our hands. I want to talk about a new EP from a band that I really like called Daisy. This is the project of a Virginia bass singer-strongwriter named James Goodson.

I talked about his debut album last year. It's called Out of Body. And that's just like, if you haven't listened to this record, yet. I really recommend it. It's just like a very fun and catchy power pop record. I think at the time I likened it to like Car Seat Headrest if it was produced by Robert John Mutt Lang.

It's like this indie rock that has like this shiny coat of like fuzz around it. And this new EP is basically the same length as the album. It's eight songs and 20 minutes. So it's a little bit shorter, but this is classified as an EP.

versus the LP that was out of body. This album is called OtherBody. And if anything, I feel like this album is even more power pop. Like, it does have that sort of like, Fountains of Wayne vibe to it. Like, lots of, like, two and a half minute songs that just fly by. But again, this is just like the definition of, like, a band that doesn't have, like, the easy media narrative, you know,

that you can, like, write about them, being a reflection of society in some way. The dude just writes really good songs, and he does it one after another. Again, it's very breezy, goes down extremely well. We're technically in spring right now, even though where I live, it's still cold as shit.

But this is a good spring weather record. So definitely check it out. Again, it's called Otherbody. The band is called Daisy, D-A-Z-Y. You will enjoy it. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash

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