Indiecast - The Dare's Critic-Baiting EP, The Dubiousness Of Indie Sleaze, and Reunion Rumors For Oasis and Modern Baseball

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

This week's episode begins with Ian telling Steven about his recent experience seeing The Cure in concert. Turns out they are playing a lot of new songs live, and they sound a lot like Disintegration. Steven reveals that Jason Isbell said something similar about his experience seeing The Cure in New Orleans (5:06).Next, they address the most hyped release in the indie world of late, The Sex EP by NYC throwback dance-punk act The Dare (15:39). A lot of people are talking about this four-song release, and a lot of that talk is negative. But for Steven, what's interesting is that a collection of dumb tunes about sex and drugs is being treated as a novelty, when "dumb songs about sex and drugs" sum up a lot of popular music from the past 50 years, from rock to rap to country to basically every other genre. Is there a reaction brewing to the Trump/Covid era of music?From there, Steven and Ian have a wider conversation about indie sleaze and whether it's a real phenomenon or a trumped-up fantasy by shadowy "Brooklyn-based trend forecasters" (32:29). Speaking of fantasies, the guys also addressed reunion rumors surrounding two very different bands: Oasis and Modern Baseball (44:55).In Recommendation Corner (50:42), Ian talks about two electronic acts, Blawan and Overmono, while Steven brings up the catchy French indie pop En Attendant Ana.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 140 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the heavily hyped NYC Act, The Dare, and whether indie sleaze is actually a thing. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He regrets announcing his candidacy on Twitter spaces. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? I know one of our more delightful bits is treating Twitter like Lydia Soprano. Like, you know, I just wish the Lord would take me now. But, I mean, after yesterday, is it, like, ever more clear that, like, Twitter is a completely washed app? Like, I mean, granted, you know, I got right back on it this morning. But this is, having Ront de Santas announced a presidency, like, with Elon Musk, I mean, let me ask you this. Like, this is what I thought of when I had. to gauge just how pathetic this seemed.

Do you, did you, have you ever had a band approach you about premiering a song of theirs on your personal Twitter? Yes. Yeah. I have. A lot of people have.

And what, how does you feel when a band did that? I don't know. I understand, uh, like where they're coming from. And it's usually, you know,

a very complimentary email. Someone will write you and be like, oh, I've read all your books. I've, you know, I've been reading you since I was in middle school. And, oh, by the way, I'm in a band.

And can you debut this song on your Twitter page? So, you know, they're buttering you up. And I always believe that, oh, this person is probably emailing Ian Cohen immediately after this. Or I'm immediately after Ian Cohen or Christaville or whoever it may be. You're just going down the list. And, you look, it's hard. It's hard out there. You got to get publicity any way you can.

In the case of Ron DeSantis, who, again, for those who don't know, he announced his candidacy for the president of the United States on Twitter. Twitter spaces. I think we have to be very clear, which I've never been on. Have you? No, I've never been there. And I'm not entirely clear on what it is. Apparently, it's like a meeting place where, you know, you can gather people and engage and free speech and debate and challenge. ideas and all that kind of stuff.

But, yeah, apparently there was so many people trying to get in that it crashed repeatedly. So I heard it described as like the worst Zoom call of all time. Because it just took forever, apparently, for DeSantis to even get a word out because it just kept glitching and crashing. And, yeah, you know, Twitter, it is one of those things at this point where it definitely feels like a conservative app now. And you just wonder, like, it's kind of like living in a neighborhood

that is slowly falling apart, and you're like, how long can I stay here? Because I don't really want to move. Moving is inconvenient, and I don't want to pack up all my stuff. So, okay, like, my car was broken into for the second time in the past month. That's okay.

I'll just tape it up. It won't be a big deal. That's kind of where we're at with Twitter. I'm not on the verge of leaving. I'm not going to blue sky, whatever that thing is. And I still haven't gotten an invite yet, by the way. Have you?

No, but I'm not going to do the thing where you grovel for an invite. We got pride here. Well, I'm saying that now. Maybe I will eventually. But I don't know. It seems a little unbecoming. Because you see people on one app just groveling for an invite to a different app. And it's like, do we really need more social media apps?

I feel like this is going in the wrong direction. I think that we should be pushing ourselves in the other direction away from social media in general, not towards other social media apps. Of course, I say this as a person who has some anxiety about Twitter falling apart because this is my job writing for a living. And social media has been beneficial to me. So when I hear that we're moving in a post-social media world, I mean, that's what all the smart media prognosticators are talking about. I know you're reading the Ben Smith book traffic, which I recently finished.

That's his big thing. Yeah, no spoilers, by the way. Did BuzzFeed end up thriving? Is Gawker killing it still? No, no spoilers. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, let's put it. put that aside for now. That's a little too depressing to contemplate the Twitter spaces thing.

I want to bring up something that's gloomy, but gloomy in a fun way, which is the cure, which we talked about last week. But I wanted to bring them up again this week quick because you saw them. Was it last weekend? Yeah, last Saturday. Last Saturday. And I'm going to be seeing them next month. And I'm really excited. I've never seen the cure before. But I saw you tweeting about it. You were posting a lot of photos. And I think you even talked about the set list a little bit and stuff. Can you just talk about this? I mean, it looked like it was a great show.

Great, great show. If you look at the set list beforehand, you could get an outline of what you're probably going to get. But they're also going to throw in some, like, you know, new to this tour type stuff. You know, they played if only tonight we could sleep, which I know was a personal shout out to me because that's the one of the Deftones cover. covered. But yeah, I think that, I mean, it was just great crowd watching, just such great vibes in that crowd. I love going to shows like this and seeing what T-shirts are popping.

Unfortunately, not too many bands from like the 21st century, but, you know, for all, I feel like when you go on Twitter nowadays, there's always talk about like how Robert Smith hated Morrissey with like all of his, you know, every drop of blood in his body. And of course, like, you see just like a ton of Morrissey T-shirts there, which, you know, lets you to believe that, like, A, people aren't very aware of the interpersonal dynamics between those two, and that the Smiths are definitely not canceled in certain circles.

Oh, no, no. Not at all. I mean, I've said this about cancellations in pop culture all the time, that the only people that can cancel you are the people who love you. You know, so the people who hate Morrissey and just go on about all the terrible things that he says, I mean, they don't have as much power as it might seem, even though, like, in the media,

Morrissey's profile is terrible. I mean, anyone who writes about Morrissey now is sort of obligated to take shots at him. But yeah, if you're going to a cure concert, yeah, you're going to see a lot of Smith fans because, I mean, never mind the animus between Robert Smith and Morrissey. I mean, clearly the same type of people like both bands.

So it wouldn't surprise me to see that. in the audience. I did think it was interesting. Like, last Friday, the day that our previous episode posted, Andy Rourke, the great bass player of the Smiths, he passed away, sadly. I think he was 64. And he was like not that old. I want to say he was like 59, I think.

Yeah, and I believe he had cancer. So yeah, a young man, very sad to see him pass away. But his death was a way for people to once again talk online about how much they love the Smith. It was like a way, like his death in a way, it temporarily divorced Morrissey from the Smiths. And you could just talk about like how great of a bass player, Andy Rourke, is. So there was something kind of liberating about that. I mean, even Morrissey posted like a nice remembrance of Andy Rourke when he died.

So it's like, oh, wow, Morrissey's not being an asshole. Like, wow, this is amazing. So as sad as that occasion was, it was like, well, this is the good that comes out of it. we can all bond once again over the Smiths. But yeah, man, again, it sounds like the set list was amazing. It was just covering like the whole spectrum of the Kier's career. Like, how were the new songs? So there was so much new material that I think that we cannot deny that a new album's coming out.

They played at least four new songs, including the first song they played. And I know that I know how this sounds because Robert Smith, has been saying this for like the past 15 years, but it is definitely more along the lines of like disintegration or blood flowers. You know, I think that's kind of the ceiling that we can hope for here, where the songs are like eight minute long intros. And then Robert Smith just puts in the most like,

phoned in rain, pain, like sky die lyrics that, uh, you can possibly think of. If you look at the song titles, they're like just super generic as well. that being said, they sounded great. I mean, I don't know what moves Robert Smith at this moment to write

music. There was one song about his brother dying, which I found to be interesting. Like, maybe that's going to be the emotional core of the record, and that one really stood out to me. But otherwise, I mean, it's cure doing cure stuff. It sounded great, like, how it's

going to be experienced if it's like on a actual new album that you have to kind of take in its own context. I don't know. But I think the takeaway from it is that, like, we're going to get a new album. It's just, like, too, there's too much of it and too important in the set list to, like, not happen. And it makes me also wonder whether it might be a surprise drop, you know, I think that's, I can't imagine with these songs being the way they are, like, hey, we got a new single. Here's, like, four more, you know, because I think this is going to be like an eight-song album top.

Yeah, it's interesting that they would wait until after this tour, presumably, to release an album, unless it is a surprise like you're theorizing and they do it in the middle of the tour. Just because there's been so much goodwill in the press about this band in recent months, and I wrote a big piece about the cure, there was like a big list piece on the ringer about the cure, like Rolling Stone wrote a thing about the cure, calling this tour like one of the big two, tours of the summer. You know, there's been cure mania in the press lately. So it seems like to not have a new album to capitalize that.

It seems like a misopportunity. Although maybe the tour itself will, it'll be like a reverse thing where instead of the album building towards a tour, the tour will build toward the album. Like people feel so good about seeing this band live that they'll be more inclined to check out a new cure record. I think that's kind of the move here because, These songs themselves, like, I'm more, like, if I were to hear them, like, in a studio, I would think, okay, more cure cool.

But putting them in the context of, like, you know, burn, like, which I think would be a, you know, a very high peak for them to hit, I think, okay, I get what they're doing. And the tour softens me to having, you know, more of a, more excitement for what's going to be, like, very much like cure doing cure things. You know, I interviewed Jason Isbell this week, and we ended up talking about The Cure for a little bit in this interview because he's a Cure fan, and he saw, I think, the opening show of this tour in New Orleans. And he was raving about the new songs and how he liked them because they sounded like disintegration. So that does seem like, I mean, first of all, it was interesting to talk about the Cure with like, the epitome of like Americana music.

You know, you think of like that being the opposite of what the cure is, but even Jason Isbell likes the cure. And that does make sense because he's also a 44-year-old man. So, you know, that ultimately outweighs any sort of like genre trappings that he signifies. But yeah, I don't know. Like the way you're describing it, it actually makes me excited to hear these songs live because I think that is the best case scenario. Like I would want new cure songs.

to just have really long intros. And, you know, you have a bit of, like, Robert Smith contemplating the waves or the rain or the clouds in his classic Robert Smith voice. Yeah, this is like end of the world stuff, yeah. I thought, and I can't remember if we talked about this last week, but I thought I read something that he was going to make the moon landing part of this album concept.

Yeah, there was a moon. that was the backdrop when they played these songs and I think the album's been called songs for a lost world I was wondering if like maybe it was like there's some climate change stuff going on there but yeah moon landing

moon landing climate change I mean look these are all things that like Robert Smith have like has dealt with throughout his entire life like moons rain like the world ending this shit's right in his wheelhouse but I think hey if that's what it does like get him like, you know, up to speed on 2020, uh, vibes, you know, PR releases. You know, like, good for him.

He's a canny dude. I trust Robert Smith's direction. He's proven himself. Yeah, I mean, he could have went in the opposite direction where, you know, oh, this song features Taylor Swift, or this song features Duel Lipa or I've got Sufian Stevens doing orchestral parts on this song, you know, like just a ton of features to make it feel more contemporary. I mean, that would, I think be the worst case scenario for like a new cure record like you just want the cure to be timeless and outside of whatever else is going on in the culture and there's no way robert smith would do that anyway that's always been his mo to you know not fit in uh but yeah it is funny to think like oh yeah what if uh you know he invited like bibby bridgers to sing in the song like if that was like

what the new cure record was going to be this is going to be like a new sort of hot young pop star feature on every new song. The only band Robert Smith has liked, I think, in the past 20 years is The Twilight Sad. Yeah, they actually opened. Like I said, like, oh, that would be kind of neat if they did. And even though it wasn't announced anywhere on like the bill or on the website, like, wait a minute, this looks like the Twilight Sad coming out. And they did and they played songs from 2012 and forward, even though their first two albums

rule. That's like a pretty good gig. The Twilight Sadd more or less exists right now or have existed for the past five or so years, simply to open for the cure. That's not a bad situation to be in. Right, right. Very cool. Congrats to the Twilight Sad. Let's get to the Dare.

I want to talk about the Dare with you because there's been a lot of conversation about this band. Are we calling them a band? They're a project. Project? Duo? I don't know. It'll call it a project. It's been a lot of conversation about the dare and their new EP.

It's the sex EP. And I feel like the critical discourse on this is largely negative. But there's been a tremendous amount of hype. And it's interesting because I was going on Spotify. And it's not like the dare has a ton of spins. I think like the biggest song on the sex EP is Girl. girls and that has just under 3 million. This is so funny that they have,

the 1975 have a song called Girls and a Sex EP and this is like their epitome of like what indie sleaze is like from 2013. Yeah, but it's like it's not like it's taking over the world in terms of like streaming or numbers. But in terms of the media, there's been a lot of hype and people are, looking at this as some sort of bellwether for what is known as indie slees. And I want to talk about indie slees here in a minute after we talk about the dare. But for those who don't know,

just a little bit of background. And this is from Paper Magazine, which I believe is now defunct. Yeah. Get on you for finding that. That's a, that's a relic. Paper Magazine in 2022, this was a profile written about the dare, just an excerpt, previously known for putting up music under the name Turtlenect. Oh, what kind of the band was turtlenecked uh i'll tell you what band turtlenect was um this is so this band is like five years removed from having like ian cone from pitchfork text me visual jokes in their video it was like it was here's how i remember turtleneck and this is going to be so fucking in the weeds that i um i kind of i feel 50 years old and want to die this guy is there a short version

like are they an emo band they're like kind of punk shit posty emo from the mid aughts. Kind of like quasi-teen suicide, car seat, headrest, beef era. Yeah, they just made, yeah, they were an indie rock band. They kind of sounded like blog rock, but also like pavement or archers of loaf. And they had one, band gloss is a good song. I ain't got a front. Okay.

All right. Well, I think we got the idea. So a band called Turtlenect, the dare is Harrison Patrick Smith's new four-way foray into the world of house, techno, and electro clash. A resident DJ at Home Sweet Home, whatever the hell that is, the dare sees Smith bridging

the gap between the finely tuned pop sensibilities and place in New York's thriving underground nightlife scene. Is it thriving? Is it underground if all we do is read about it? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. It's been a while since there's been a buzzy New York thing.

I mean, and that's part of the conversation about the dare. there's a lot of self-actualization going on, I think, with this group where you have a contingent of people, whether it's in the media, the record industry, or just like in the trend watching business, which I hate saying that, but apparently that's an industry. There's a strong desire for New York to matter again, because it has not mattered in terms of indie music since the early 2000s. It's been a while, I guess towards the end, just the odds in general. because it's basically too expensive to live in New York.

A lot of people moved out, went to Philadelphia, Baltimore, places like that. Harkening back to the days when LCD sound system and the rapture reigns supreme with their mix of indie synth pop and punk, girls, which is the breakout track for the dare, channels the same sardonic vocals and supercharged beat that would have fit right at home between a classic Tiger Cut or Rex the Dog remix.

featuring plenty of bubbling acid sense and a thick, roaring baseline. The track is a fun mix of hedonism and jaded musings on modern-day romance, all wrapped in a simple yet catchy hook. So the sex EP, it takes three more songs, and it packages it around that song, Girls, which was a breakout hit last year. It's released as this EP, which again has really elicited hostility. from music critics.

A lot of anger out there about this group. And look, I have two thoughts here that I had while listening to this EP and I'm curious for your take and as well as just what you think about the dare in general. Number one, you know, my first thought about this record was just imagining myself

if I was 23 years old in 2022 and like how like the prime years of like being young, like being a young person, which, you know, let's say that starts at like 17, 18 years old, as you're getting ready to leave high school, going to college or just kind of doing your post high school life, that five year run,

like in the last five years, like it hasn't been great if you're 23 years old. Because, you know, half that time you've been in quarantine, which is awful. And then before and after that, you've been part of this culture that is scoldy at best and puritanical at worst. like there's a lot of talk now when we talk about music that it either is about Trump's America or unpacking trauma or empowerment and there's just like not a lot of dumb hedonism that has been in pop culture lately and I can see that if you're a 23 year old person

and you've been kind of like in this like suppressive environment during your prime being young years that like a record like this might be refreshing regardless of its artistic qualities. So that's my first thought. My second thought is that I feel like music critics in general in this moment don't really know what to do with like quote unquote horny music that doesn't have some sort of like political agenda attached to it. Like I feel like now when we talk about like sex positive music,

it is wrapped up in this sort of jargon again of empowerment or of sexual liberation. I think you see that, for instance, in the current album cycle for Janelle Monet, like the way she's positioning her upcoming record. I think there's a band from New York that we talked about earlier this year called model actress that you and I both like,

that I think does something similar to the dare, but like on a more elevated, in some respects, academic level that is more amenable to like how critics talk about this kind of thing. I mean, the dare has no ideology at all. It's a straight white guy talking about girls and sex and drugs. And I think because of that,

it elicits a different kind of response from the other, again, more elevated forms of horny music if we can make that a genre. So I don't know. Does any of that make sense to you? I, you know, I will say that, like with the, dare, if we're just talking about the music of it, I wish these songs were either like a little bit better or like a whole lot worse.

Like, I think the most damning thing about this record is that it's pretty mid. You know, like, they get compared to LCD sound system. I mean, there's no like losing my edge here. But even if you were to compare them to someone like the bravery, who is like a guilty pleasure of mine from that era, there's nothing here. as enjoyably trashy as like an honest mistake. Which I think is like a legitimately good song. There's like a lot of craft to that, but it's also

I think of that as like an OG indie sleaze type song. There's nothing that elevated. But also like I don't think this record is like as unlistenable or terrible as some of like the harsher critiques give it. Again, I think I think pitchfork gave it a 5.8. That actually feels like a pretty accurate score to me. I might go a little bit lower. But again, it's like a mediocre record.

It's not terrible and it's not like really fun in a transgressive kind of way. But again, I think what people are responding to is like what this record represents and maybe what it's reacting against like what we've had in indie culture and discourse in the last several years. Yeah, I mean this weekend I listened to physically. graffiti and specifically trampled underfoot, which, you know, led me to believe that more songs need to be about, like, sex or thinly veiled car metaphors for sex, and that's really about it. Or, like, rock and roll needs to be about car sex or hobbits.

Led Zeppelin had it right the first time. But, yeah, I mean, for a band like this, since I'm not 23, I've kind of taken a, you know, Darren Rovel, I feel bad for this country, but this is tremendous content take. I'm just trying to find the take that will get me the most interested in following this. And, you know, being a hater seems like way, that's like way too easy for this band. But on the other hand, you're right in which I, like, if they had reached the level of the bravery, I would like ride for this way harder than would be, you know, warranted. But I think the kind of trouble with this band is, you know, to bring it back to traffic.

Like, from what I know of Turtlenect and this guy's, like, whole deal, it's, like, in the book, you read about, like, how Jonah Peretti's just been obsessed with metrics and traffic and just kind of, like, virality. And, you know, this guy, Harrison Smith, he just seems like kind of a shit poster who found a bit that worked. And now they just kind of have to run with it. And, I mean, with, I think just the kind of general issue with this in the first place is that it doesn't, It's kind of in this weird midpoint between like wanting to be like Kings of Leon or the killers of those other bands that get like a little bit of airtime and meet me in the bathroom,

but also like a New York band like LCD sound system or the rapture. And it's just kind of in between because we just don't have really the infrastructure to have a killers or have a bravery. And so I mean, I don't know like I don't know what the future holds for them. But I mean, we're going to get into the broader combo about like indie sleep. you know, in a bit. And I think this gets into why I don't feel like a project like this can really work. Because it, for both them and the people trying to engage with it, it's a reaction to a lot of things.

But, you know, the original indie slees was like, you know, it was framed as like a reaction to like 9-11 or the war in Iraq or the George W. Bush presidency. Like all of which we could agree. Like these were bad things. But, you know, a band like the dare or indie. Eastley's is like reacting, you know, to like bodies and spaces core or enact, you know, unpacking trauma, which like, I think it by and large are like generally good things, although like can be aggravating when they're like cynically taken up by PR. So there's kind of like a no-win situation for a band like this where they either have to be like super shitty or like actually too good to

ignore. I mean, I think there's two ways looking at it. You can look at it like you said as a band like this being a reaction to like wokeism and I'm sorry to use that term but like there's no other way to describe it. I guess you said bodies and spaces core. Maybe that's like a softer way of saying that. I think you could frame it that way, but I also feel like it's as much a reaction to COVID and the lockdowns. And that is in a way something that is as momentous as 9-11 was in the early 2000s. And maybe even more so because you do have this generation of young people. Who, like, if you were in high school or in college during the quarantine, like, you lost, like, a good part of your being young years. Like, just being trapped, like, in your apartment or your home.

Like, maybe you're living with your parents during that time. So if you're part of that generation, I totally get, like, how you might just want something really stupid that's about sex and drugs. And by the way, can we just say that, like, this is. idea that it's exotic or a novelty for an artist to be obsessed with sex and drugs, really says something about where we're at as a culture right now. Because by and large, if you look at the history of popular music, no matter what the genre is, sex and drugs are like a big thing. It's like maybe the main subject of like rock songs, rap songs, blues songs, country songs, all the way down the line. Any kind of popular music, you got a lot of sex,

You got a lot of drugs or partying things of that nature. So, you know, to look at this as like some sort of like, wow, he's really obsessed with this. As a young man, I don't know. I think that says something about how we've been talking about these issues, I think, in a very academic way. You know, again, I think for music critics, it's much more acceptable if you couch these types of issues in the language of academia, rather than in the language of just like young, dumb, horny people. That it becomes easier to take umbrage to it.

When I think for a lot of people there's maybe something refreshing about that, that we can maybe take the ideology out of these things and just be like, well, we want songs about this because it's fun. You know, and in the abstract, I'm in favor of that. I just don't know if this band or project is a worthy vessel for. that. It remains to be seen. You know, this guy only has like four songs.

None of which we've really even talked about on this episode besides the fact they exist. I'll say, you know, like the song Sex, for instance. It's a pretty solid song. It's catchy. I think all these songs are pretty catchy. Like, Girls

again was the big breakout. And that is like a shit posty type song. You know, like talking about like he likes girls who are pregnant. and stuff like that, it does not seem like something that is meant to be taken seriously. It feels like a novelty song in a lot of ways.

And I don't know if he has any other bullets in his gun where he can. Again, not even have a losing my edge. Does he have an honest mistake in him? You know, I'd love to hear that. And if he did, I would be first in line for the dare Because that trashy era of like, you know, New York City indie, like I'm, I have a, I have nostalgia for it as someone who lived through that era.

Although it is funny, again, you know, like, if we talk about New York, like this Indies thing, it does underline the fact that people move to New York because they want to live in the New York of 20 years ago. You know, like, it's funny to me that we're romanticizing the early aughts New York scene in this way, because, Because at the time, there were a lot of people who said, you guys are just aping the New York City of the late 70s. That was the criticism of even the best artists of that time. Like, LCD sound system, who people now are protective of because the dare is supposedly ripping them off. I mean, the LCD sound system is, like, incredibly derivative as a band.

They kind of made that part of their identity. There's like a meta derivativeness to like what they're doing. But then you look at the late 70s in New York and it's like, well, they were just trying to be like the beats, the beat writers of like the 40s and 50s in New York. You know, so it's like people move to New York because they want to live 20 years in the past, like the New York that they imagined when they were kids and that's why they want to move there. Yeah, let's talk about Indies here as just a phenomenon because it is worth unpacking a little bit. and scrutinizing whether this even actually exists.

Because I think that's been at least one of the talking points with this. Like, I think there's a lot of skepticism about whether this is a real phenomenon or if it's something that people are trying to will into existence. And I just want to read this excerpt. This is from a story in Harper's Bazaar from January 2020. So just to show, this has been like a thing now for like a year and a half, at least, at least in the media. The hipster aesthetic now dubbed indie sleaze has been tapped for a comeback. Trend cycles have sped up to such a degree that the Vanguard Cool Kids

are now idolizing a time that was barely 10 years in the past. A viral TikTok by Brooklyn-based trend forecaster, Mandy Lee, suggests there's an obscene amount of evidence that's in quotes, that the aesthetic is coming back, citing a paparazzi photo of Bella Adid sporting wired headphones. What? Yeah, you can't deny that shit. But the evidence extends much farther than that, thank goodness. Margaret Kwali lounges suggestively in lace ankle socks for the latest cover of Home Girls Magazine.

Cass Blackbird, a photographer who was around for the first iteration of Indieslease, took the photos. Kirsten Dunst appears on the November 2021 issue of Architectural Digest, wearing the mid-aught staple of black ankle-linked leggings under a bohemian-style dress. incredible sentence there. Yes, architectural digest. I need to pitch architectural digest. If there's no money, it's like, hey, you're interested in the new home as wear record guys? Yeah, man, they're setting the trends here.

This is a quote, indie sleeves feels very vague but also super specific at the same time. It's American Apparel ads, flash photography, urban outfitters, Ed Banger records, Nilean Magazine, and MySpace says, Elia Espaldi, a 24-year-old video editor from Greece, who is just one of a growing cohort of Gen Z-Z-obsessed people, of Gen Z people obsessed with dressing like it's 2008. I love how random and tacky it is. So I feel about 200 years old after reading that excerpt. I love it like when people describe things as tacky and random. That's when I know that we've really hit upon something valuable here. So really, okay, so, and this was kind of the beginning of people talking about this in the media. And again, we're basing it on a viral TikTok by a Bookwin-based trend forecaster. Like, that's where this comes from. And I think that's the reason why a lot of people are skeptical about whether this thing even exists. Even though, to circle back to something I was saying before, I do think that there is some

kind of reaction, maybe brewing to like culture in the 2000s, 2010s, I mean, that maybe people, you know, the pendulum is maybe swinging in a different direction from like what we had during the Trump years. I do think that there might be something to that, even if I'm skeptical that this is something that is real beyond just something that like a trend watcher from Brooklyn might say in a TikTok. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's just been talk of indie sleaze in the water for longer than from when that Harper's Bizarre thing was posted. But yeah, because it... But when do you think it started?

Like, when do you think that derives from? You know, I think that, and this gets to like a bigger point I've thought about with like whether or not this is a thing or whether anything, you know, any of these microchens we talk about as a thing. I think especially during COVID I'm just like thinking back to the times when like me and a couple of friends were like considering doing a Zoom blog rock DJ night where pop culture is just so atomized that you can find evidence of anything being popular

so I think like we if we were to trace this back it would certainly have to be towards at some point like not like early to mid early COVID for the exact reasons you mentioned. You know, we're all locked inside and we just, you know, we want to like just be dumb and irresponsible in ways that, you know, people seem to be in 2003 or 2008. And I think it's, you know, I think it says a lot that people are conflating those two eras because like the Ed Bangor era of like 2007, the blog house days and the dance punk days, very different.

But, you know, this gets into, like, why it's hard to take this seriously as, like, an actual thing rather than a wish to be, like, a form of wish fulfillment, which is that I don't know if, like, the Spotify Indies playlist is, like, the definitive article. But I looked at it and, like, one of the first songs I saw was Animal Collective, My Girls, which, and also there was, like, Crystal Castles and Ariel Pink on there. So, you know, both completely meaningless and way too on the nose at the same time. But that always happens, though. I think, like, when people from younger generations recontextualized, like, a music scene from 20 years ago,

they always group things together that people who were there would not have done. I mean, the analogy I would make is that in the early 2000s, people were comparing the strokes to the Ramones just because they wore leather jackets when they really had nothing else in common. Right. Other than that. So I think if you weren't there, you're always going to get it a little bit wrong, but at the same time, that becomes how these things are remembered.

So, like, who's to say what's right or wrong? I agree, because there's nothing really sleazy about Animal Collective. Or my girls, which is, like, the least sleazy song. Like, it is, like, the exact, like, yeah, I guess it's indie because it was on, like, Domino. But, like, yeah, the exact opposite in terms of sentiment. Like, I've seen people get married. to my girls. Like, indie sleet should at least bring back memories of, like, getting fucking blown off sparks and, like,

wearing a Deep V. Animal Club, or DeepV American Apparel T-shirt. And, you know, my girls, this, my girls doesn't do that, yeah. Yeah, but, you know, it signifies indie music of the 2000s, which I think is what, if you're, again, 23, that's, like, what you are looking at with that kind of playlist. So it all gets grouped together. So, yeah, I don't know. to me, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a real thing. Again, I just go back to the streaming numbers for the dare.

Like, he's not yet on the level of even, like, big indie people at this point. I was surprised by those numbers. I feel like those must have been, like, refreshed or something like that because... Yeah. I mean, like, these are, like, not very impressive numbers, you know? Like, they're, like, I imagine I'm just going to look up. Yeah, it's like modest indie band numbers. Like, he's got the same amount of monthly listeners right now as like the whole steady.

Right. Like the official music video for girls, which has been up for nine months, has 73,000 views on YouTube, which is respectable. But like, you know, does that elicit the kind of, does that justify the kind of like, oh, I'm getting written about in GQ as the next big thing? Like, I don't know. I think there's an idea, or again, like a hope that this is a bellwether of something, and I don't necessarily see evidence of that yet. I mean, this may just be a thing like where the dare are like the moldy peaches and the strokes of this scene are in the wings, and they just haven't entered yet.

You know, maybe like the great band of Indieslisle would be here. And, you know, maybe that is like model actress. You know, I've seen model actress brought up this week. as a counterpoint to the dare as being like, this is like a more intelligent version of Indiesleys coming out in New York. And maybe that will be a band that, although they're even smaller than the dare. I mean, they're not even as popular as the dare is at this point.

Or maybe that band is still waiting to be seen. I don't know. But yeah, there's a lot of hot air, though, with this kind of music. the talk of this scene. I mean, do you hope it's for real? Do you have any hope that, like, okay, we're going to get some trashy bands

and maybe it'll be fun to write about this stuff? Oh, absolutely. Like, I know how you said that Harper's bizarre thing made you feel 200 years old, but, like, any time there's, like, a revisitation of stuff where, like, I felt like I was in my prime. I'm like, hell yeah. It is time for me to be,

it's time for me to, like, come in, like, swoop in as a 40. year old expert. And I'm hoping, though, that, like, indie slees like doesn't just limit itself to sounding like, you know, the Rapture or LCD sound system. I really wish we could rush release the 20th anniversary of Death from Above 1975.

You're a woman. I'm a machine. Because that, to me, is, like, the truest form of indie slees in that it was released on, like, Vice Records. They're Canadian. Like, the entire album, it's like a noise rock album about, like, a breakup and like just responding that by doing drugs and being shitty. I mean, granted that band is existing in some form of soft cancellation because I think they're,

I think one of the guys was seen with the proud boys. Don't quote me on that. But yeah, I'm like, I'm hoping it like kind of gets out of just like New York focused and takes on other people's perspectives on it because I mean, there was just some great, like elevated but also kind of dumb music from. that time. I think the rapture encapsulates that. Because, you know, it was DFA. It was based in, you know, like disco and dance punk and a lot of credible stuff. But, and I say this with love, uh, how's the jealous lovers really fucking stupid song. And it, it's, oh yeah, but amazing.

Well, and you brought up the Kings of Leon killers comparison before. Like, yeah, can we get like a, an Indies band from Tennessee? That'd be pretty awesome. I'd like to see, a southern indie sleeves band that was like kind of sexy and danceable but like also uh has a little bit of that southern rock quality to them a little bit of chugel in what they're doing like that could be a pretty magical combination um you brought up the 1975 earlier and i think that's an interesting thing because they're like the rolling stones of this scene at this point like they're they're like in their tattoo you era you know even though it's only been 10 years like they're they're like the granddaddies of this kind of thing

even though they're like are they still like sleazy? I mean they're like relatively sleazy maybe they'll I feel like they've been despleased

right over time yeah I think he's too and I say cerebral meaning that he's like very like self-reflexive and you know considerate like there's something very meta about like his sex and his drugs

and like what it means for his persona it's like hard for them to be just like like, you know, the thing is the thing. I would think that, like, the 1975 is sleazy compared to, like, you know, other people who operate in that space. But, yeah, you're right. Like, rolling, it is, like, damn near Rolling Stones tattoo you. I'm going to have to trust you on Tattoo You because I can't, like, I can't wrap my head

around, like, where that is in terms of the Rolling Stone discography. But they are more like. That's 1981. Okay. That's like 20 years into the career. That's a great record. But it's like 20 years into their career. So in the 1975, we're only 10 years into their career.

But, you know, time I think now is, it moves faster. So they may be in that period. Do we want to talk quick about the reunion rumors for two groups that are near and due to our hearts? Reunion rumors for Oasis and for modern baseball. Yeah. Which is modern baseball even less likely than Oasis? I feel like Oasis at this point is going to happen.

Just because there's going to be like a billion dollars on the table. And Noel Gallagher can only do so many high-flying birds tours for he's just like, why not just sell at Wembley Stadium five nights in a row and make a gazillion dollars? There was a story this week that they were actually like starting to like look at venues for a arena tour. And then Liam and Noel, well, Noel said that he's been trying to be. trying to reach out to Liam, and Liam won't respond. So Noah called Liam a coward.

Just crying. I love what someone accuses you being a coward. A coward is like such a funny, like, put down. Because it's kind of old-fashioned, you know, like you won't, you won't face me in a duel, you coward, and like you slap him across the face with a white glove. And then Liam went on Twitter and he called Noel a coward because Noel wouldn't play that benefit concert for Manchester, like when there was the Bami at the Ariana Grande concert.

Like Liam played that, but Noel didn't. So Liam called Noel a coward because of that. So they're sniping, but they're going to kiss and make up. But there was a thing this week talking about emo greats, modern baseball. And I should let you take this. There was like a fake Twitter account that got people excited about a reunion. Yeah, I love the fact that like the fact that, like the fact that. that Noel and Liam are talking.

It's like, well, if they're talking, you know, that might lead to something. But yeah, with modern baseball, it's, I mean, I made like a joke like, yeah, they're kind of the oasis of the emo revival scene. But in reality, I think title fight probably fits that bill because they're brothers. And they don't necessarily fight, but they don't seem particularly interested in it. But there was a pretty convincing fake Twitter account that posted as modern baseball. Like, what's fifth wave emo? And then all, I didn't see it myself, but then, like, I see people who I follow and I trust generally talk.

There was just, like, modern baseball in the air. Like, oh, like, I heard they're going to play that Wonder Years festival that's going on later in Philly. Or, I don't know, 10-year reunion for you're going to miss it all. And look, I imagine, and also, like, do people really want to have a modern baseball reunion? because things ended like in a pretty definitive way where we're like, yeah, for their like mental health, they need to break up. And I haven't heard a single thing from Brendan in the time since. Of course, Jake has done Slaughter Beach Dog. But next year's going to be super interesting on that front because you have like 10 year reunions, 10 year anniversaries for like modern baseball and like foxings, the albatross and, you know, the hotel years, a home like no place is there. like bands who have like in one way, shape, or form totally moved on from that and like kind of don't want to revisit it.

But I don't know. Like, I mean, are you yay or nay on a modern baseball reunion? Well, it's entirely dependent on like where Brendan is at at this point because as you said, there was, I mean, I don't know exactly what happened with him. But there's definitely mental health issues going on. I think the pressure being in a band, the pressure of being in the public eye, even in a band like that. where they're not hugely popular, but that DIY emo punk scene is such a fishbowl, and you're under such scrutiny. I mean, we've seen lots of examples, I feel like, in that world in recent years,

where bands implode because it's just like an intense fan base. You know, it can be really difficult, I think, to be a star in that scene in a way that maybe being like a rock star or a pop star is relatively easy because there's, There's like a layer of insulation that goes on if you're like really popular. But if you're like this DIY scene, it's so much more like your fans are so much closer to you. And your fans can like turn on you in weird ways. And I don't know.

It seems like a really hard thing to do. So, you know, if Brendan isn't a good place, then I'm yay. If Brendan is not or if Brendan is content at the moment without modern baseball, then I would say nay. Yeah. I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, like, it could be fun, but only if they want it to be fun, you know, I don't want, like, and also I want them, you know, just to be comfortable and, like, have it be something that's like legit fun. Like, maybe just like a show or two in Philly, the way you blew it, a band that broke up in 2016 did. You know, they played some shows like in Florida at like a bar and they looked awesome and people were having a fucking blast, but they weren't like dragging ass through, I don't know, Kansas. the city on a Tuesday night. So, again, I'm not demanding them to come back.

It would be cool, but only if they do it on their own terms. And shout out to modern baseball. I think they were like the second or third guest on Celebration Rock. My old podcast, like back in the day. Day ones, baby. In person interview. Yeah, that was like on the rise during the good times in modern baseball's history. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner,

where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So, you know, I'm, when I talk about being excited about modern baseball and, like, the bands that kind of sound like them, there, I've probably said this before, but there are times where I'm, like, on the ver, in the same way I'm on the verge of quitting Twitter, of, like, going full on electronic, because it's kind of hard for me to get into a lot of guitar music because it's kind of derivative, even of the stuff I like. But so lately I've been looking into two of the bigger electronic releases of recent times.

One is an artist called Blavon. They had a song called Why They Hide the Bodies Under My Garage. Their new EP dismantled into Juice and like a really hyped album from Overmano called Good Lies that came out a few weeks ago. You know, my interest in electronic music, either it's got to be super pretty or it's just got to like totally bang and these ones just bang in their own way. Blavon's more of like an abrasive. Every instrument sounds like a meat locker sort of thing where I've heard Overmoner described as like kind of the disclosure of 2023 in that they're brothers. They've had singles that have been hyped up for a while.

But the album itself doesn't have as much of like a, you know, H&M pop sort of thing. There are no Sam Smith guests on this. I like these two together because they're both very short, you know, one's 18 minutes, one's like 37. If you put them together, I think you could arguably get like the fourth fuck buttons album, which I want more. I mean, they're definitely not getting back together. But yeah, I think with these two, it's very good like throwing out at the gym, throw on in your car.

So yeah, I imagine for certain electronic connoisseurs that are probably like, you know, washed or like, you know, a little too overhype. But for someone such as myself, they really fit the bill of what I've been looking for lately. Man, that Sam Smith's song with Disclosure is pretty great. I love that. Yeah, it's a fucking bad. Was it called Latch? Yeah, Latch. Is Disclosure, are they Indy Sleeze?

No. I feel like that's too late. No, that 2010's Indie Slease is like people who work at Vice listening to future Dirty Sprite 2 or Yeez-is. That's a time. I don't know if that will ever come back, but yeah, we are not too far beyond that era. Oh, my God. Well, I want to talk about a band that I think is a.

been kind of slept on so far in 2023. They're a French group called In Atondat Anna and they've been around since 2014. They recently well not so recently released their third record, Princeapia it came out

in February and I did a quick check and I feel like it wasn't really reviewed all that much on the big indie sites even though it came out on a pretty well respected label called Trouble and Mine Records, a record label that I like quite a bit.

And this band apparently played one of the pitchfork festivals in Paris. I think it was maybe in 2019 or so. But this album, it's a really likable indie pop record. I feel like this band gets classified probably because they're on trouble in mind

in that garage rock camp. But honestly, I think they're just like a good pop band. I get a vibe that's similar to always when I listen to this band, except it's not as fuzzy. as always. I mean, they really do have that French thing, like where things sound really clean, really breezy, you know, like, just think about like Phoenix and Air, records like that. There's

similar qualities to this album, you know, great bass lines, really cool instrumental tones and beautiful vocals and just like really well-written songs. And look, I talk a lot this time of year about patio music, because this is the rare time of year where I can be outside every day. I want to hear music that's really good for late spring as we get into early summer. And that's definitely true of this band. So give them a spin if you're going to be on the patio this weekend. I hope you are. Are you going to be in a backyard?

You're going to be in a park wherever it may be. The band is called In Attendantana. The record is called Principia. Principia? Principia. Principia? Principia? I think that's it.

Something like that. Principia. That would be good. And I should be reading it in a French accent, but I'm not going to do that. But yeah, this is a really good record. Check it out. Yeah, I've never heard of this band.

You know, I'm looking at the cover. And it does look like a garage rock record. It does, but it's not garagy. They're not garagy like on record. Again, they have that kind of French thing, like where things are just very well put together. Very stylish, very breezy. You know, it doesn't have that sort of intentional cacophony or looseness that you get on Garage Rock Records. This is like the opposite of that. It feels very well composed and again, just beautiful pop songs. Like a less fuzzy always

is how I would describe it. So good record. Good record for this time of year. Thank you for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.