Indiecast - The First Ever Record Label Draft + Our Favorite Performances In Pitchfork Festival History

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

Let's say you are starting a record label. Money is no object, and every artist and band in the world is a free agent. Who would you pick? That's the premise of this week's episode. (31:21) This wholly original idea involves selecting acts that fall into five categories: prestige (they don't stream big but they get great reviews), popular (they don't get great reviews but they stream big), solo artist under the age of 28 (an up-and-comer you can lock in for a long time), band with three or fewer albums (ditto), and sacred cow (an act you sign because you love them).Before Steven and Ian get to the draft, they talk about this weekend's Pitchfork Festival — Ian is going and Steven is not — and their favorite performances from previous festivals (4:44). They also address some non-indie rock topics: The terrible new Jason Aldean song (13:40) and the history of reactionary country hits that crossover into the mainstream for culture war reasons, and the forthcoming "Summer Of '99" cruise (23:46) featuring a reunited Creed plus a head-scratching mix of post-grunge and radio-friendly pop rock from the late '90s.In Recommendation Corner (57:54), Ian talks about the new book by Thursday frontman Geoff Rickly, while Steven chats up the new album by Texas surf-punks Being Dead.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 147 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we conduct our first ever record label draft. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He insists we didn't steal this idea from the ringer. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? I mean, I'm not going to front like our audience wouldn't go nuts if we actually did a

2005's redraftables, you know, like is, you know, as clap your hands say, yeah, the Channing Frye of 2005, are they more like Andrew Bynum? I mean, my first, like, my first, like, viral, if you want to call it, that moment as a writer happened, like, when I compared every college football program to, like, a rapper on BlockSpot in 2005. So, I mean, we're just getting back to our roots, you know? Yeah. Well, yeah, look, clearly doing any kind of draft a pop culture draft. You have to tip your cap to my former boss, Bill Simmons. He is the, I don't even know what the word would be,

the innovator in bringing draft structures into pop culture conversations. I actually had this idea to do a record label draft, and we'll explain what this is once we get to it. I had this idea when I was listening to The Town. I don't know if you know that podcast. It's a Bringer podcast. My favorite podcast. shout out Matt Bellany.

It probably doesn't listen to the show. Matt Bellamy? The guy from the views? No, not Bellamy. Bellany. Got it. I think he used to work at The Hollywood Reporter. Now he does this podcast that I'm a big fan of. And I love the show.

He's talking about things that I don't really care about. It's like all of this, like, insidery show business type stuff, like Hollywood. Like, it's a big show right now because of all the strikes going on in Hollywood. This is stuff I didn't know I cared about, but I just like the way Matt. Bell and he talks about it. He'll do like the top CEO's drought on his show. I don't know who any of these people are, but he's an entertaining person. And so I enjoyed the show.

And I thought, well, Ian and I could do a record label draft. We're not drafting record labels. We are pretending that we have our own record label and we are picking artists that we would want to be on our label according to certain categories. And we'll explain what those categories are when we get to that part of the episode. But before we get to that, this is a big weekend coming up here. We have the Barbenheimer phenomenon with Barbie, the movie, and Oppenheimer. The movie.

Which is sort of like an Oasis and Blur type rival. If I can bring Oasis and Blur, I got to bring that into everything. But it really is, I think, a good analogy here because these things are being posited as rivals. but like one is clearly bigger than the other. Right. You know, like O-Wa-S is clearly more popular than Blur. Barbie is like a juggernaut. That's going to be a huge movie.

Possibly the movie the summer. You have Oppenheimer, which is going to do well. It's Christopher Nolan, but it's nowhere near as big as Barbie is. But it's been turned into this sort of media thing. Has there been anything like this in music lately? I was thinking about how, you know, instances where there were two big albums coming out on the same day and they were pitted against each other like

remember like 50 cent and Kanye had something but then there was that was also like the weekend animal collective strawberry jam came out so you know the real heads know that was the winner uh I don't I can't recall something like that in music recently nah like where there were like two big albums and people were like,

I'm going to vote this album over that album. I mean, well, you got to talk about a non-y-j-J Harvey. I mean, like, gosh, right up there with the graduation and whatever 50-cent album came out in 2007. I cannot fucking believe I can't remember that name of that one. I've already failed our audience 10 minutes in. I can kind of picture the album cover of the 50-cent. Isn't it like a white cover and he's on it?

It's not the massacre because that was 2005. Curtis. Like, this is so embarrassing. I am so fucking embarrassed that I could not remember that. So anyway, you got Barbenheimer going on. And then there's the Pitchfork Festival happening, which you're going to. I'm going. You're taking a red-eye flight from San Diego, right?

So you're leaving, we're recording this on Thursday. So you're leaving, like, tonight. I'm leaving tonight. What time? Like 1130 or something? Like 10.45. Like, look, no offense to nourished by time or the Chicago local acts that they typically have playing at like

1 o'clock or 2 o'clock on a Friday. But, you know, I'm like Youth Lagoon at the earliest on Friday. I got to get my nap in. So, I haven't been to pitchfork in about a decade. I think the last time I went was like 2013. And I'm not going to. Is that the first time we met in person?

It might have been. It might have been. I'm not doing Barbenheimer either this weekend. I'm going to a cabin up north with the wife and kids, so that's going to be a good time. Going to see some animals. Going to do some canoeing, possibly, some antiquing. There's a drive-in restaurant up there that has the best root beer I've ever had in my life. So I'm excited about that.

I'm going to drink a lot of root beer. I wanted to ask you this because I don't think I'm going to go to Pitchfork Festival ever again. I'm not sure if I could get in for free. I don't know a lot of people there. I guess Jeremy Larson, if you're listening,

theoretically, could you get me into Pitchfork? Just message me and let me know. I don't want to go, but just theoretically, could you get me in? I'm curious. I don't know how much juice I have there anymore. But anyway, do you feel feel old when you go to pitchfork? Because I think that's part of my reason why I haven't gone in a while, because when I was there, I didn't see anyone the age I am now. For those who don't know,

like at pitchfork, you know, you got like the Hoy-Polloy and the audience there. But then there's like this backstage area where all the VIPs are. And these VIPs, a lot of them are music writers. And like, that's, you know, they're commiserating back there. And it's like, kind of of like a convention for music critics. They just hang out and they talk and it's pretty cool. But I just feel like it's almost like there's certain bars I don't go to anymore because I know it's just going to be a bunch of 25-year-olds and I'm not 25 anymore and I would feel a little strange. Do you have any of that?

Or has the cohort there aged with you? Like are there a lot of 40-something-year-old critics hanging out in that little backstage? age area now? I mean, I imagine there are like enough of them. You know, because of like the Barbenheimer slash like Pitchfork Fest merger, like I'm thinking back to the first time I went in 2008, like 15 years ago. Like I'm just having memories of like me and a bunch of music writers I had never met in person. We made plans to see the dark night on like the Friday. Like it debuted on the Friday. I think. that the festival is happening.

Like, we all went and saw it, and then I just, I still get shit about this to this day, about, like, how excited I was to see dodoes and plants and animals perform. You know, we're already in the remembering some guys apart. But, you know, I mean, it changes. Like, this is a real life comes at you fast type festival, because, you know, like 2012 to 15, I would go, and I'd go to the after parties,

and like the after shows and, you know, like just be out there and like definitely socialize with people who I would see on the, you know, see quote unquote on the internet and not like, you know, really know. And it would be really refreshing because you find out like the person who annoyed you that one time on Twitter is actually super nice in person. And, you know, these are people with whom you share like 99% personality traits. Narcism of small differences really gets amplified. But nowadays, like, I'm there to, like, see, like, my friends.

Like, Pitchfork Festival is kind of an excuse to see the 40-something people who I still keep in touch with. And otherwise, probably wouldn't see. So I go every other year for them or every three years as opposed to every year. Like, we always like, yeah, this might be the last time we do it. We better come out. And like you, I'm using this weekend to also drive up to Wisconsin. You know, doing it doing it big Midwest style. going to Milwaukee, Madison, circling back to see Boni Vair on, you know, Boni Vair on Sunday night.

Yeah, so. Love it. I'll give you my old address. You can drive by my house that I used to live in in Milwaukee. Yeah, Indycast lore. Yeah, if you want to do the Indycast tour there, we were talking about memorable performances at Pitchfork that we saw. And like I said, like my prime of Pitchfork. festival going was the late aughts early 2010s.

So I was thinking like what performances stand out. I remember seeing Titus and Dronicus. Oh yeah. Like pre the monitor, I think it was airing of grievances era, which would have been like 08 or so, I think. That was probably, that was really good. That was like the Toto's plants and animals. I think Frighton Rabbit played that year. I think Jay Retard was also that year, or he might have been the following year.

It was like Blood Visions era. Oh, wow. Yeah. He was phenomenal. Deer Hunter. Oh, yeah. Seeing them, Halcyon Digest. They were playing...

I feel like it was at dusk. Holy shit. It was like a round dusk. It was awesome. And they opened with desire lines. It was great. So that stands out. I think the last band I remember seeing there was Parquet Courts.

I saw them light up gold era. They were on like that side stage. Okay. And then I think I left like after. I think I left early because I saw Pearl Jam at Wrigley Field the night before, and they played until about 3 in the morning. And I was really tired and hung over. It was super hot.

And I was like, screw this, I don't want to be here anymore. And then I haven't been back since. What performances stand up to you? I would be remiss to not talk about the 2008 festival. I'm looking here at the lineup. The Bradford Cox, King Conj. retard and promptu jam session in between cut copy and bony verre oh beautiful yeah one one day on the aluminum stage animal collective hold steady vampire weekend fleet foxes j retard um there you go wow um but yeah

i also have the 2012 poster in my office where i'm recording like that was the year they had vampire weekend like kendrick lamar grimes japan droids asap rocky this insane assay But, you know, the memorable ones I have were, I just got to give a shout out to, it was sometime in the mid-2010, Shabazz Palaces. That was the first and only time I ever saw a fight breakout at a Pitchfork Fest crowd. Like, just a notoriously chill festival, like really well-run, well-designed. But, like, all of a sudden a fight breaks out at Shabat, like this kind of spacey avant-garde rap group. I mean, Japan droids in 2012, that was fucking awesome. You know, just being in the crowd, not in VIP.

Like, people were just saying to me, dude, you go do your thing. We're not going to stand around you while you appreciate Japan droids. You're just, like, standing way too fucking hard right now. This is about like a month or so after Celebration Rock came out. I also like when Jeff Rosenstock played in 2017, which is an accomplishment of itself, and he said how much he got paid. to play the show, that's what which is,

you know, for the record, $7,500. So, yeah, I mean, a couple of, uh,

there's a couple of really memorable performances. It was really cool to see the hotel year play, uh, with Jade from Oso Oso, uh, on guitar. That was cool. I got good memories.

I remember seeing that hotel year performance on the live stream. Mm-hmm. And Christian Holden was wearing a t-shirt tucked into their jeans. And, uh, it kind of changed the way I, I looked at that band ever. ever since after that.

It's like, oh, they're the band that t-shirt into the jeans type band. I've seen them wearing crocs on stage, so, I mean, I think that was dressed up for the hotel year. We have to talk about, and this has nothing to do with indie rock, not that ever, that doesn't stop us from talking about things, of course, but

you know, we talk about the biggest, we say indie news of the week, the biggest music news of the week, I feel like, was this Jason L. Dean song. I don't know if you heard this song. It was kind of like the contract. I mean, this is like the slow part of the summer.

So, like, people are just looking for things to be upset about. There's this new Jason L. Dean song. Jason L. Dean, of course, big country singer. Looks like an actual side of beef. If you look at this guy, he just looks like... I don't know what he looks like. Oh, wow. Yeah, this guy... Yeah, like, like, just take, you know, like a, you know, just like a pork roast.

You know, like, if you just put that on top of a person's head, like, that would be Jason. It sort of looks like AI. trying to like draw Kobe Keith from memory or something like that. I know that's like kind of the phrase that people use sometimes, but yeah, he's like, he's the kind of person, like he doesn't write his own songs, he's not a great singer, he's like an average looking guy. There's nothing really exceptional about him, but he is like a huge hitmaker. He's had like 25 number one country songs in the past 20 years, just a huge star and a true every man. You're like, this could literally be any man in

America, Jason L. Dean. But he has a song called Try that in a small town. And this song came out a couple months ago. What? Apparently. Yeah, it came out in May. But, yeah, it's been out for a while, but like the music video

I think came out this week. So, like, the music video causes controversy. The song, try that in a small town. Basically, the premise of the song is, you know, if you're going to you know, protest or you're going to like, you know, disrespect police, you better not do that in a small town because people will literally shoot you and murder you in a small town. That's basically what the song is about. And the video, um,

has him performing in front of this like courthouse. Yeah. And, uh, apparently there was like a lynching at this courthouse like, you know, 80, 90 years ago. I don't, know if that was deliberate. I don't want to give Jason Aldine too much credit for, you know, scheming this, but anyway, it's in poor taste. Whether it's on purpose or not, poor taste.

The video has a real kind of like, I don't know. People overuse the word fascism now, but there is like a kind of weird overtone of that in the video. Anyway, people got upset, many of whom don't care about Jason Eldine.

but they saw this video and they got upset about it. I have to say, like, the song is terrible, and the video is worse. But I do have a soft spot for, like, these reactionary country songs that cross over. Yeah. Because they're so awful. Like, the last one that we had was accidental racist. Hell yeah. Is that starting 10 this year?

I feel like, I feel like there's, like, going to be, yeah, 2013. we fucking missed it it came out in April 2013 we really we really really I dropped the ball in that one yeah we're with stereo gum

stereo gum should have been on top of that there should have been like a think piece from somebody there about that I mean that song I feel like was trying to make an anti-racism point you know I don't think it was coming from this like conservative place

I think you know Brad Paisley was trying to say and LL cool J and L O Cool J right That, like, you know, sometimes you're racist by accident, and that's terrible. I mean, the quintessential example of this kind of song is from the early 2000s, like those post-9-11, Toby Keith, Daryl Worley songs. You know, where it's basically, like, we're going to, you know, kick Osama bin Laden's ass. Like that genre song. Like, that's the greatest example of this.

And this, Aldeen song is, like, more in that. style. But he's like going after like Black Lives Matter and all that kind of stuff. Which it's like, isn't this song kind of already out of date? Like what, like there haven't been like protests nationwide in a while

now. It just seems like really like why now? Well, you know, it's a very bizarre timing I think I don't know. Have you have you seen this song or seen this video or heard this song? Yeah, I think it says a lot that you know, a song of this nature can like info like I've had a real

really, really busy week at work, so I haven't been, like, totally caught up on the Twitter trends, but it says a lot that this, which is apparently a couple months old, has broken through to the, like, mainstream music Twitter. I just think of, uh, this is like literally the drill tweet, like turning a big dial that says racism on it and constantly looking back on the audience for approval. Um, I think just pop, like, the only place I really interface with pop country music is that sprouts. And, um, you know, yeah, like, it, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And oftentimes, like, I'm like, oh, what country artist is this?

And it turns out it's like a recent Bon Jovi song where they went pop country. But, you know, I think that this speaks to what I find fascinating. I think what a lot of, like, music writers find fascinating about pop country. It is that it is kind of like that drill tweet where it's this symbiotic relationship where, you know, Nashville writers, you know, just kind of, not guess that, like, scrutinize, like what the audience wants. and gives it back to them. And, yeah, it's like a very fan service-oriented genre, which, you know, like, I think that their music is just as polished and just as, like, thoughtful and crafty as any form of pop music.

But it's really, like, it's really a genre that, like, is moved, like, from bottom up. You know what I mean? And which is, and also, like, I think this week there was, like, an article in the New Yorker about how like certain quote wokeisms are like getting into country music as well so you're seeing like both of these dynamics play out at the same time while like Morgan Wallen is kind of like he like knocked off a bunch of like pop R&B hip hop artist at number one like a couple of months after his album came out or something like he's kind of the biggest artist of this year right yeah in the last couple years I think yeah like Morgan Wallen it's just been a juggernaut

Yeah, I don't know. To some degree, I feel like this song, like a song like this, it's not just about the people who would support what he's singing about. It's about angering the right people. And what I mean by the right people are like the people that maybe if you live in a small town, you are inclined to react against, you know, the big coastal elite type people. Right. Because, you know, does this song become a phenomenon if, like, people aren't angry about it?

I have my doubts about that. But, I mean, the thing about the song, and other people have said this, this isn't like an original thing. But like the premise of the song is wrong. He's from Macon, Georgia. That's not a small town. Well, and also, like, if you've been to small towns in, like, the middle of the country, like, there's probably even more anti-authority sentiment in a lot of these places because they're economically depressed. There's a lot of, you know, opiate addiction issues.

going on. I mean, these are like ravaged places. It's not some romanticized like apple pie on the windowsill, you know, flying an American flag in front of your house. I mean, these are like run down kind of scary places a lot of times.

So this idea that like you know, people in small towns, they respect police. Like, I don't believe that. I don't think that's true. Tell them about Appleton, Wisconsin. You know, how do they do it in there, you know? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's like a lot of misery in small town America. So I don't know.

But again, I think it's such a, this is like how a lot of culture is now. It's just about, well, I'm going to support this because someone I hate is going to be against it. Right. So that's the basis of my support. Because, again, like Jason Aldeen, he's like such an average person in every kind of way. I don't under, like his success is, it's confounding. Because you can't say like, well, he's just a great looking guy. So people love him because he's a good looking guy. He's like, no, he's not. He's not a good looking guy. He's not a great singer. He doesn't write his songs.

There's nothing that he does that is exceptional. So I don't know. What's fascinating? Except his success. Yeah. His success is exceptional. What's fascinating to me is that like with pop country a lot of times, you know, the biggest draw is that these artists are people who you could imagine yourself in the place of.

Like, they're supposed to be super relatable. And yet I'm like wonder, is there like, you know, Stan armies or like the same sort of parasycial relationship that people have with, say, like, you know, like Taylor Swift or like, uh, something like that where it's like people who, you know, hear a Jason Al Dean song or, you know, Morgan Wallin's song or just posting, yo, it me or like doing memes about it. I'm just, it's, yeah, I'm just really wondering if like that, if there's just that element, uh, like the Swifty army or, or, or, or, I'm just, it's, yeah, I'm just really wondering if, if, if, if there's just that element, uh, like the swifty army or, or, or, or, or, or like the, you know, the beehive or like the barbs or whatever that like exists for artists of that ilk. I think so. And I think especially in an instance like this, if people feel like, oh, he's under attack. Right. You know, like the liberal media is going after him. So I'm going to support his song because I don't like the idea of people being canceled.

Jason Aldean featuring Ariel Pink coming soon. Exactly. Before we get to our draft, there's one. other thing that we need to talk about. This is even like less indie rock than Jason Aldeen, but it's funny. So we're going to talk about it. There's this thing called the Summer of 99 cruise. Has to be a cruise.

Yeah. It's a cruise ship and it's taking place and when is it? Like next year, I think it's like next spring. This is taking place. And the headline of this cruise is that it is being headlined by a reunited Creed. Creed is back. Not the film Creed. Not Michael B. Jordan. I'm talking about the rock

band Creed. Scott Stap. The Michael Jordan of Christian Arena Rock, I don't fucking know. I'm trying to remember the guitar players. Mark Tramonte. Oh my God. Put some respect on the name. Geez. And in the rhythm section. I don't know their names.

They're getting back together. They're the headliners, and the rest of the bill includes, and this is a very interesting bill because again it's called summer of 99 so this is the idea like the idea I guess is that these were all popular bands in

99 so you've got three doors down get special billing as the very special guest so they're on the second line and then the third line you have Buck Cherry tonic Vertical Horizon

Fuck yeah fuel Hold on hold on wait a minute is this like the version of fuel featuring Brett Scallions I know they got beef Isn't that, isn't his name in the name of the band, if it's Scalions? I think you're right, yeah. It's like Brett Scallion playing the songs of Fuel. So I got to look into that.

So, by the way, you fuck yeah at Vertical Horizon. I did? That's a, that, I said Vertical Horizon. You said, fuck yeah. I think it was just kind of a general thing. I don't really fuck with Verit. I'm more like a tonic. I legit like a couple of tonic songs.

Yeah, yeah. If you could only see. Yeah, great song. Tantric Dishwala This is the wild card Louis Post Of Vruca Salt

Yeah And it mentions Vruca Salt in the billing And then nine days Yeah And then Eddie Trunk is the host I don't know who that is You know Eddie Trunk? I don't know who that is

That metal show On VH1 He's like He's like the guy Like any hard rock or metal documentary Eddie Trunk is a talking head. Like, he's a big disjockey in that world.

Oh, that guy. I'm looking at that guy. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Okay. Eddie Trunk. Yeah.

And he looks like a guy called Eddie Trunk. He really fucking knows. He really doesn't. He's got a total Eddie Trunk looking face. And that Pinfield's up in the mix, too, I think. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Pinfield, you know, I think if he was being more alt-rock.

Yeah. Then this kind of thing. Yeah. But he was on a limp biscuit record, too. Was he? Yeah, I think Matt Pinfield did a, like, an introduction, or I think it was significant other. I'm like, I'm like fairly, yeah, rant from significant other.

Okay, I was going to do a Matt Pinfield impression, and now I'm having second thoughts. Like two people listening to this podcast would, like, be able to, look, I spent like nine hours a day watching MTV in the 90s, And if you did a Matt Pinfield impression without telling me who you were doing, I would not be able to recognize it anyway. Hey, this is Matt Pinfield. You kind of talks like this.

Now I'm going to, this is going to leave me back to listening to significant others. This bill is intriguing to me because there's like, you have like the post-grunge bands. You have Creed, three doors down. And then you have like Buck Cherry. They're, I think, more. of like a Guns and Roses retread. Yeah, same era though. Same era.

But then you have like these pop rock bands. Tonic, Vertical Horizon, Dishwala, the Verve Pipe. Yeah. I mean, am I overthinking this or, because I feel like the Buck Cherry fan, are they going to be down for Dishwala? Counting Blue Cars, that's their big song, right? Isn't that Dishwala? That is definitely Dishwala.

Tell me, oh, you. your thoughts on God. See, please stop fucking fronting. Like, you don't know what Tishwal's big song is. Well, but the song title is a little confusing. It is. Because it was called, Tell Me Your Thoughts on God.

Very indie rock to use, like a lyric from like the pre-chorus rather than the chorus itself. I bet, I bet they did that thing, sort of like nine days, absolutely perinthetical story of a girl where they had to like,

you know, put the actual like chorus in a parenthetical so like people would know what it is. Exactly. I'm guessing that in counting blue cars There's a parenthetical that says Tell me all your thoughts on God There's got to be that Because that's what it makes it a little confusing

Because I know that song But I was like oh what's the actual title I couldn't remember for a second Nine Days That song What's your stance on that song That is like nails on a chalkboard To me

Fucking sucks But like my problem is that like That was the song that led me to realize Like wait a minute When I think back on it Like when I worked at Ben and Jerry's in the summer of 2000, and we listened to the mainstream rock station, the only songs I ever heard were,

like, album cuts from Californication and three doors down. So three doors down, summer of 2000, nine days, summer of 2000. Like this whole concept is just not seaworthy, like literally or figuratively. Yeah, but, you know, let's not get overly pedantic, though. You know, it's closer.

enough, you know, you get older, you lose track of the years. It could be like 99, could be 2000. You know, people don't know. What about Louis Post, though? I mean, gosh, what a way to take one for the troops. Like, it's like, she's like not, like, literally the only woman on this entire fucking cruise. Yeah, I hope she has her own boat.

Yeah. That she can go to. Nina Gordon coming through on the rescue boat. I don't know if those two are still talking, but, I mean. Yeah, isn't there a feud there? I assume that they don't get along if they're not in the same band. Yeah, I guess so. But I don't know.

Maybe one of the dudes from the rhythm section comes through. Yeah, I don't know. Louise Post, do you think she knew? Okay, you got Buck Cherry on here. Yeah, it's like not even like, it's not even like alt rock, you know, one-hit wonders. It's like, you know, Buck Cherry who like did, they, they, wait, were they cold hard bitch or was that jet? That's jet. Okay.

But they, uh, they, oh, what's that son, though? Um, fuck. Crazy bitch. Crazy bitch. That's it. Yeah. That's the buck cherry song. For the movies, though, I will give that a shout.

That's a good power ballad. I mean, lit up. I like that song. They crawled so jet could fly or whatever the fucking phrase is. Um, but yeah, I don't know. Like, Rukasol is more mid-90s to me than late 90s. Absolutely. Yeah, it's like yellow jackets core. Yeah, but, you know.

Hopefully they gave her the bag. Yeah. And that's why she's doing it. Get to the bag. Eight arms to hold the bag or whatever the fuck that album was called. All right. Well, let's get to our first ever record label draft. I'm excited about this.

This is an idea that we did not steal from anybody. Well, actually, we did. We already admitted that we stole this idea. It's a fun idea. It's a public domain. Yeah, it's not copyrighted. And as far as I know, the ringer, they've never done a record label draft. So this variation on the idea that we're stealing is new.

If we ever do a misery index, then we got to give shot to Grantland. That's a purely Grantland idea. Yeah, but that would be like Disney would be going after us then. Because they own that, so maybe we don't want to mess with Disney. But record label draft, and this was something I came up with. I pitched it to you. You were like, let's do it. And this is how it works.

So the idea is that you're starting a record label and you get five picks, five artists, bands that you can bring onto the label right away. It doesn't matter what label they're on right now. Doesn't matter what their deal is now. The idea is that all the artists in the world are free agents and you can bring them in to your record label. Money is no object. Doesn't matter what the signing bonus is.

We can pick anyone. Like originally I thought let's do an indie label draft, but like indie indie is so hard to define. So I just made it a record label draft. Theoretically, you can draft Taylor Swift or the weekend if you want. I think it'd be best if we kept it within the Indycast world. So you can take Creed, I guess, and you can take... I bet they're free agents.

I bet they're technically. Probably. But, you know, I know on my potential list here, it's... I didn't go for anyone, like, too big. But anyway, there's five categories here. And you can draft these in any order that you. you want, but the categories are one sacred cow. This is an artist that you sign just because you love them. You want them to be on your label. Prestige artist. This is an artist who,

maybe they don't do a ton of streams, but they get great reviews on every record, and it would be really attractive to other artists and bands potentially if they were on your label. Third category, high streamer. This is an artist or band who doesn't get a lot of press. Maybe they don't get great reviews, but they do incredible streaming numbers. So they're going to be bringing home the bacon here for the prestige people on your label.

Fourth category, solo artist, 28 years or younger. The idea is that you're going to be locking in this kind of younger artist, hopefully for a long time, an artist that you think is going to be making music for a while. Maybe they're a sedent.

Maybe they're a victory records type contract. Yes, exactly. You're locking them in to, like, a long-term deal. And then finally, a band with three or fewer albums. Again, it's the same idea as the solo artist. Just like a younger band that you feel is ascendant. That would just be great on your label.

You're going to be locking them in. They're going to be moving units for a long time. They're going to be doing streaming numbers for a long time. So those are the five categories. Again, you can pick them in any order. Let's determine who the first pick is here. I have a coin. Oh.

You're going to have to trust me. Okay. I'm going to flip a coin. if you win the coin toss, you can choose whether you want to pick first or get the second and third pick. Third? Well, yeah, whoever picks first, you get one pick, the next person gets two picks and then we'll alternate. Ah, there we go. Cool.

So I'm going to flip a coin on what you call it in the air. Flipping it. Heads. Call it. It is tails. Okay. I'm going to go first, and then you can get the next two picks. All right.

That work for you? That works for me. Do you have any questions about the draft or the rules or anything? Do we both get to pick a sacred cow? Yeah, yeah. All five categories, because we have five picks. Cool. So we each pick one of these.

I guarantee we're not going to come anywhere near picking the same people, but I'm excited nonetheless. Well, okay, one reason I wanted the first pick is that I'm going to pick a band that I think you might want to pick. For my first pick. I'm going to pick in the band with three or fewer albums category. And by the way, this is not all time. We're not doing all time. Like you can't pick the Beatles or something. This is like bands and artists as they are right now today.

So I'm going with the band with three or fewer albums category. Do you know who I'm going to pick here? I feel like I do. I pick a turn star. Oh, okay. That's not the one I thought. And I'm cheating here slightly because they have five EPs. but they only have three albums

and it's a category of three or fewer albums so I'm going with Turnstile partly because I feel like you might have wanted to pick them I don't know if they were on your board or not but I'm also picking them because as we've talked about many times on this show they are a rock band who's younger who is ascendant and it just feels like their next record

could bump them up to arena status or if not that at least they're going to continue to be a very big band So they just jumped out at me as like if I'm starting a record label I want to have turnstile on my label They just seem like a great mix of critical acclaim and pop And popularity so they're my first signing on my record label Were they on your board at all?

Am I burning you at all by taking turnstile? Not at all I think I'm like I struggled between Picking bands that like makes sense with the category and like picking ones that you know might make my label successful i mean once you see my sacred cow i mean that is at you can be absolutely sure that i have no fucking intent of uh you know making money off this thing but what stood out to me is um i wanted a artist who was going to be prolific um and also spawn a bunch of other side projects so that's why my three albums or few okay but by the I just want to say, like, you don't have to pick in the same category I did.

Oh, okay. Well. No, like, you can pick in any order. Like, you're, okay. You know, your category, you don't have to pick in my category. Got it. Well, then I'm going to have to go with prestige artists because, yeah, I think this might be one that you would consider. And so my prestige, like, someone who doesn't do big commercial numbers but gets great reviews and or is a legacy act.

You know, I'm not a fan of this band, but they, like, put out records, like, every, year and they probably sell the same exact amount and they get written by the same people, but they are consistent. I like to keep the lights on. I'm going to go with Mountain Goats. Because, you know, they put out albums, but they also do like some other shit.

You know, like, you get that podcast stuff, you get those books. It just seems like a savvy investment. I was not going to take Mountain Goats. They were not on, I do not have them on the board for prestige artists, but that makes sense. Yeah, literate like the literate former like every single person who used to be into hardcore will become

if not mountain goats like i also thought about picking hold steady here uh but i think the mountain goats make more record so yeah it's just like where do people go when they like want to be like super serious like hardcore but they're you know in that space of their lives where they're reading books and bars. They go to Mountain Goats. So I'm going to definitely capitalize on that endlessly renewable resource. I am shocked that that's your first round pick. That is a curveball from you going with the Mountain Goats. Yeah. At number one, because there was no way in the world that I would ever take the Mountain Goats. It was just the pick I feel most confident about. That's like the one I can justify the best. It's good. It's a good pick. Like you said, they put out a record every year. They

have a very loyal fan base. Are you going to get some of that John Garniel book money? Is there any way to write that into the record deal? Yeah, my lawyers are fierce, man. Yeah. For my second pick, I'm going to go in the solo artist

28 years or younger category, and I'm going with my boy, M.J. Lenderman. Number two, I'm a big fan of M.J. Lenderman. I also feel like he could potentially have a nice-sized career ahead of him outside of Wednesday. Wednesday, obviously.

is a big band and he's a guitar player in that band, but I think that as a solo artist, he could be at least as big as Wednesday. I really think that he has that kind of following already. He just signed to anti-records. He's putting out a single with them in the fall. It just seems like he works a lot. I think he's a really good artist.

I think he's like 23 years old. He's really young. He's a young dude. but I don't know I know like whenever I talk about him a lot of people are excited I think he's already kind of building like a pretty loyal fan base

and he just seems like the kind of person who could become like the kingpin of that kind of music King of the dudes king of the dudes king of the like sort of country-ish leaning indie rock sound

I mean I don't know I just think he's got a big future ahead of him and I would be excited to lock him into my label. So M.J. Lenderman is my second pick. So for me, with the high streamer, I'm going to go. So I heard, well, actually, you know what, as far as my, I'm going to go with my solo under the age of 28 artists for my second pick. And this one came to me, I think it was yesterday or the day before,

where someone mentioned that this artist actually has more, it's kind of cheating because she's also like a high streaming act. Faye Webster. So I was told that she has more monthly subscribers than Boy Genius, which is, you know, she's not going to be my high streaming pick. But I also think that, you know, she is create, she's a very creative artist. You know, I'm not, you know, I haven't really got into her albums,

but she seems like she touches on a lot of different genres. Like, you know, because she came from the awful record sort of world in Atlanta. She's got a foot in hip hop. She can kind of do the country ballad sort of thing, you know, being from Georgia. And also there's this not over, it's not like an overly pitched parissocial relationship the way people have with some of the, you know, more popular female artists of the day. So she kind of, it seems like she's in it. for the long run, I don't think there will ever be a backlash against her like there might be

with some other artists. So this just seems like another savvy investment on my way. I like that pick. Yeah. That's a good pick. You know, all three boy geniuses are 28 and younger. I think Dacus and Bridgers are 28 and Baker's 27. So we're not taking any of those.

Those would have been good picks though for this category. Boying picks but good ones. Exactly. I thought about taking Phoebe Bridgers just because it's such a slam dunk, but I have to go with MJ Lenderman. And yeah, we don't want to be too predictable here. That seems a little chalky

taking one of the boy geniuses in this category, but it would have been very smart. I'm going to go in the high streamer category here, and there's like a lot. I actually had a lot of people here. And there were a couple people I was going in between here. And I'm not going to say who they are, because I'm curious if they would overlap with you.

But I'm going to go with cigarettes after sex. Oh. In this category. Their streaming numbers are insane. They are unbelievable. Like, they have, I think their top song has like 900 million streams. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's 837 streams.

If you look at like their top streamers on Spotify, they have, like a song that's been streamed 395 million times another one 366 million times 250 million times I mean they've got like 7 or 8 like 9 digit streaming songs on Spotify you never hear anybody talk about this band

I had looked on pitchfork I think their last album got a 4.0 It was so fucking bad that album was so bad so bad so like this you know I'm going purely for the money with this act.

I'm signing them because I know they do big numbers. I'm not going to get a lot of respect for having them on my label, but it doesn't matter. They're going to bring home the bacon. I mean, I think their whole thing is truth in advertising. They have sex in the name of the band. It seems like the kind of band that a certain kind of person puts on. Right.

When they're having sex, I guess, although that seems so weird to me that you would be that literal, be like, yeah, we're about to get intimate. Let's put on cigarettes after sex. But apparently it works. And I'm not going to question it. I'm going to be a mercenary record label head. I'm going to sign cigarettes after sex as my high streamer pick. Yeah, one of my younger coworkers brought that band up.

It's like, yeah, I like that one song. And like all their songs sound like that one song, except way fucking worse. Yeah, I mean, yeah, they're just like phenomenal streaming and sinking and all those things. Yeah, it's a wise pick. I know nothing, I know nothing about them. I have no idea what they look like or who's in that band. It seems totally irrelevant to what their popularity is. Like no one cares about who's in that band.

They just apparently want to play their songs on playlists. Yeah, it's the But I cannot stress enough I've heard There are other songs that aren't No one's gonna hurt you And man, they are so bad It is

You got I think You gotta listen to it Yeah, I'm not proud to have them on my label But it's a necessary evil They will help offset Yeah They'll make it easier for me To like give MJ Lenderman a long runway

Over, you know, he can build his career over many albums because I'm just cashing the cigarettes after sex checks. Right on. All right, so I'm going to go with my high streaming. This is also sort of a hybrid one.

I thought about picking suicide boys. Now, this is like, they, I don't even know how to describe it. They kind of cover the bases of like SoundCloud rap, but also sort of hardcore. Like they did the Great A Festival. in 2021, which, by the way,

Turnstile played that, and, like, the audience was just not into it, which was fascinating. This is, like, kind of sort of around when Glow On came out. They have, like, 10 million-plus monthly subscribers on Spotify. I think that would be a good choice,

but I'm going to pick, you know, something a little more curated and tasteful. This also, this is, like, kind of quasi-pristage as well. in that they kind of put out albums pretty regularly and they're popular. I'm going to go with the drums. Another band that is like surprisingly popular, like way more popular than you probably think. They are playing bigger venues in your town than you probably think. Because stuff like this, like kind of gothie, kind of smithsy, this stuff has so much popularity

that kind of goes unnoticed. But, you know, they make great songs. They, you know, haven't really nailed it as far as. albums go. I heard good things about the new one. But yeah, I feel this is another one to, you know, this is going to make sure the bills get paid, but also not quite as, you know, mercenary, cigarettes after sex. Although I do imagine there's quite an overlap of drums, fans and, uh, cigarettes after sex. So maybe we do our South by Southwest, like co-sponsored, uh, label, label, uh, whatever those things are, you know, like how sometimes like, have showcases. That's

what they're called. So I'm going to go with the drums. I like that pick. Unsexy pick, but you know, a wise investment. Yeah, it's not as shameless as the cigarette after sex pick, but, you know, again, I can stand by that. Some other artists I had on my board for this category, I had Lord Huron. Oh, God, yeah, that boy. Here, just like the king of the sinks. Oh, yeah. And, like, you know, they do really well. I also had that dude Noah Cahan on my list, who, He has like a song with Post Malone. Yeah, you can't afford Noah Kahan, man. Yeah, I don't know.

Well, he doesn't stream as well as cigarettes after sex. That's why I didn't take him. But, I mean, we've talked about Kahan already on this show. He's just somebody that I hadn't even heard of until like a month ago. And my editor, Phil, was like, if you heard of this Noah Kahan dude, like he's everywhere. And now he has a song with Post Malone that came out this week, potential song of the summer candidate. Right. but didn't take him this time.

All right, so for my next pick, you know, we didn't do that thing like where you took the next two picks. We didn't do that. We forgot to do that. We just realized that. We're workshopping. This is still...

Well, that's you. You got to fire your GM, man, because that was a major oversight. It's like what the Vikings did that one year. Yeah. The intersection of sports and pop culture on this podcast and only this podcast. So...

Okay, so for my next category, I'm going to go to the prestige artist category. And, you know, again, this is someone who doesn't do big commercial numbers, but they get great reviews and or they're a legacy act. I'm going to go with just like a really reliable band that's been around forever. They always get good reviews. Very consistent. They put out albums, like, pretty regularly.

They have an album out this year that got great reviews. I know exactly. I like it a lot. You'll let's hang out. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Great band, love them. Again, very reliable.

They haven't made a bad record, really, in like 30 years, 35 years. Critics will always love them. It's like a cliche how much critics like them. There was that onion article about Yolotango. Athens, Georgia. Was that the 40-Watt? Yeah, it just seems like such a solid pick. And I feel like a lot of people would look at the label and they'd go, okay,

cigarettes after sex is on this label, but they also sign Yola Tango. so maybe this will offset that. So yeah, Yoletango is my prestige pick. All right. So I'm going to go with my band with three or fewer albums picks, so I've got three out of the five out of the way. I'm going to go with my, I just like to play the odds. So I know this band's going to put out a lot of records,

and they're probably going to put out a lot of solo records along with it. So probably not going to, they may have peaked indie prestige, wise, but I'm going to go with Black Country New Road. Wow. Yeah. You know, they're not, I don't, like, look, if they make an album, like, 75% as good as ants from up there, like, so be it. But, you know, I just see that.

Like, I really thought about this one. It's like, it's got to be one of these British fans because, you know, I think Fontaine's DC was another option. Like, I feel like they are just, like, they, they cultivate the type of audits. audience that's like always going to be there. Like Fontaine's DC is to me sort of like in idols I can be less embarrassed by. They're like not as cringe and like, but yeah, with Black Country New Road, it's sort of like, you know, trying to like sign Wu Tang because like, you know, if you get them, then when the

inevitable solo albums came out, maybe you get your hands on that as well. You get like jock strap money or whatever. And also they'll probably put out like two albums every single year. So that's who I'm going with with my young, young up-and-coming artist. I was going to say, like, they only have three albums at this point? Yeah, technically. I mean, they got like two albums for the first time and Ants from Up There. And if you want to count the live album from this year, which is all new songs, yeah.

Wow, okay. That makes sense. A band I considered for this category was always. Oh, yeah. But they're not that prolific. that's the downside of them. If you sign them now, you might not get an album from them

until 2026. So you'd be waiting a while for always, and it's going to be great. Everyone will love it, but maybe your label's going to be bankrupt by then. So that's the knock against always. Otherwise, I would have taken them. Last pick,

this is my sacred cow pick. And I'm not going to overthink it. I made this my last pick because I thought there's no way you're going to take this band. So I didn't worry about it being taken. So that's why I kept it for last. But they are the number one band for me, the war on drugs. I want them on my label. I'd be very excited.

They're not going to be putting out a record for a while either. I'm going to be waiting maybe until 2025, 2025, 26. But that's okay. I'm going to bankroll this record. I'm going to give Adam whatever he wants. Oh, you want to record? in like all the best studios in Los Angeles. Go right ahead, man.

Sean Everett, put him on retainer. We'll pay him, whatever it takes. I just need your heartland rock anthems to hit me as hard as they always do. It would be my honor to pay for them. So, the war on drugs. I guess I'm taking them away. What label are they on? Atlantic.

They're on Atlantic Records. I'm wooing them from Atlantic Records. bringing it up to my record label The War on Drugs, my Sacred Cow Pick. It's very clear that you and I thought about this assignment quite differently because, you know, I didn't, when I thought of, like, Sacred Cow, like, I thought of picking a band that was, like, defunct or whatever. Like, I think the people who are going to flock to my label, like, have to know, you know, have to be kind of on the same wavelength as me as far as, like, taste now.

it's very clear for my previous picks I'm not interested in making money like this is just going to be some sort of like you know startup boondoggle I am going with Woo Life I am doing this because I want to I want to

I want to find like the most creative like because I mean like that's like you know one of my like Twitter sticks is just to remind people of this band's existence and so I want to just do the dumbest possible reissues repackaging of their one album imaginable like it's okay came out in 2011 so you know next year it's like the special 13th anniversary reissue of go tell fire to the mountain where you know it's like

one song has a different mix or you know just selling all the vocals so you can hear them without the music um i want you know if if you're the type of artist who thinks yeah that's super cool this person like start an entire label to re-release Wu Life you know one Roo Life album you know we can match wits this to me is like a

it's prestige it's sacred cow it just kind of shows you that like man this person is like really taking the long view wow that is a shocker but I love the pick

you know if I was thinking about reissues my sacred cow would probably have to be counting crows because I'd want to do the recovering the satellites box set that I think a good number of people would want but I feel like no record label will actually put out

because it would have happened already I don't know what the deal is with it I actually talked about Adam I talked about this with Adam Duritz once about recovering the satellites and whether there would be a box set and he seemed like oh yeah there would be a lot of material for that I think this was on Celebration Rock I can't remember

what he said exactly but maybe that would be like my another secret cow. Bring in Counting Crows and just do like the August and everything after box set recovering the satellites box set

you know like Wilco style like how Wilco's doing all these box sets for the albums I'll do that for Counting Crows but man the Woo Life pick that's incredible man that's an incredible thing I either overthought this or just completely got the assignment wrong

no man no but my thing was like first thought best thought I'm like yeah, I want to be, yeah, not that I think I'd make any money or like any prestige, but I'm like, yeah, let's, let's just, let's just kind of redo what I do on Twitter as a label. So let's, let's go over our lineups here. On my record label, I have Turnstile, M.J. Lenderman, cigarettes after sex, Yola Tango, and the War on Drugs. Who's on your label? I got Wu Life Mountain Goats, the drums, Bay Webster, and Black Country New Road.

This is like a New York Jets type draft, whereas you're the Philadelphia Eagles. Wow. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian went to go first. All right, so I am shifting, speaking of Legacy Acts, Sacred Cows, I'm shifting to the literary world right now. And you mentioned MJ Lenderman and Wednesday.

This guy's on what I guess is the literary. equivalent of like the Ratsaw God press circuit. It is Jeff Rickley, his debut novel, someone who isn't me. It's out, I believe, next Tuesday. And, you know, I shouldn't have to say this, but I'm going to. Lead singer of Thursday, United Nations, no devotion. Great guy, someone who I've talked to a lot in real life and as like an artist. And he wrote this book about his experience of kicking his heroin habit by

going to Mexico for an Ibogaine clinic. It's like this psychedelic experience that defragments your brain and you smoke DMT with a shaman. I would call it more like auto-fiction rather than a straight-up addiction memoir or something like Cherry. But it's a good book and also, you know, it's there for the Thursday heads. I mean, it's barely fictionalized in certain places. They got the members of Thursday in there. They've got Martin Schrelli making a cameo because, as you all know, he was the financier behind Collect Records, which was a label that more or less functioned how I would function a dream

label, except, you know, people found out how they were making their money. So it toes the line between like memoir, auto fiction, experimental stuff, reads really quickly. And my interview with Jeff should be up early next week at Uprocks. All right. I'll look forward to that. I want to talk about a band from Austin, Texas, called Being Dead. They have a new record out called When Horses Would Run.

And I would describe this band as like, kind of like the OCs, but like with an element of like early B-52s mixed in. There's a lot of surfy guitar. There's definitely like a punk influence in there, but it's also a pretty poppy record at the same time. And it just has this like really kind of fun, freewheeling, kind of like countercultural vibe going with it. And it's just a really enjoyable record.

You know, I have to say that like surf music is like one of those genres that like always exists. It's like rockabilly or something. Like there's always going to be a cadre of people who are really into it. I am a big fan of like surf sounding guitar, even though like surf music itself gets a little derivative and one note if you listen to it for too long. but this band is able to take that element and put it again into more of this sort of garaggy irreverent kind of punk formula thing

and it just works really well and it's a really fun record it's called again when horses would run the band is called Being Dead I like bands with the word dead in the title so that is also a plus for me but yeah just a really fun record I've been listening to it a lot this week

I feel like there's this kind of emerging B-52's joke surf kind of thing going on. That band Snooper from previous week seems like they're functioning and kind of similar stuff like B-52s, Devo. I don't know, maybe we're seeing a trend emerging. It's good. I mean, you know, the B-52s for the longest time,

people just thought, oh, that's the Love Shack band. But then, you know, at some point, you know, they went to the self-titled debut record or Wild Planet, like those early B-52s records, which are like really cool. And actually, I like Love Shack, too. I'm not knocking. Bar Mith's the classic. But yeah, they are a much deeper band that I think a lot of people gave them credit for,

and it seems like people are rediscovering a lot of those early B-52s records, as they should. They're really good. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Tate Newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend Vibankham. five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.