Indiecast - The Indiecast Hall Of Fame, Plus: Skrillex, Live, Incubus, And Other Un-Indie Acts

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

This is an indie rock podcast, which needs to be reiterated because of episodes like this one. In this episode, Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen discuss some very un-indie rock topics.For instance, they go deep on Rolling Stone's recent article about the current state of Live, the '90s grunge band famous for songs like "Lightning Crashes" and "I Alone." Why are they talking about Live in 2023? Because things are bananas in Live-world at the moment! You have con men, QAnon conspiracy theorists, the AVN Awards, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.Then they talked about Skrillex, who is back with two new albums, and the rise of early 2010s nostalgia (15:20). Oh, and they also answered a listener question about Incubus (24:07). Again, this is an indie rock podcast!In the "meat" of the episode, they inducted four new albums into the Indiecast Hall Of Fame (32:21) — in this round, they honor LPs released by Sunset Rubdown, The Elected, The Good Life, and The Fresh & Onlys. Finally, in their Recommendation Corner (53:02) segment, they shouted out new records by Philip Selway and Model/Actriz.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 127 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we induct four new albums into the Indycast Hall of Fame. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He can't get enough of Likini's Juice. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? More wine, more skin. That is the Indycast way today. We are really just going off on a limb And assuming that the average Indycast listener knows the song Wikini's Juice. But then again, like, people were like straight up asking us to do an entire live episode. They're going to be like so disappointed when we switch to other topics in 30 like in, you know, in 20, 30 minutes. It's like, well, maybe we won't though. Maybe we'll just get on a wavelength talking about throwing copper where

we're just going to boot the Indycast Hall of Fame to the next episode. I think it's hilarious that we're talking about live L-I-V-E, the 90s alt-rock band and not live L-I-V-Pyreadee,

the acclaimed indie R&B act, one of the most acclaimed albums of early 2023 so far, but I guess that's how we roll here on Indycast. If you're wondering why we're talking about live so much, there was an amazing story. I guess it was, it went up last weekend.

Yeah, that was like a Saturday Sunday read for me. That was like sit down, get your coffee. Like we're, like, we're really digging in here. This is a long read. So it was right after we posted last week's episode, but it's good because we needed a week to process this amazing story that went up on Rolling Stone last weekend about the band live. and it's funny because I feel like you and I

we've been talking about live weirdly for the past few weeks you had a tweet where you called Lakeini's Juice the worst rip of all time and that got like more engagement than like actual journalism I post

but then yeah but I love that shit yeah I do like if some publication wants to pay me money to like talk about Lakeini's juice like by all means Like your TED Talk on Likini's Juice. They're going to bring Ian in. We're going to fly them in.

Yeah. To discuss the, what's that album? Secret Samadhi. Secret Samadhi. It reminds me, like, I don't think they made this commercial, but like around that time when Arrested Development, the band made that album Zingalamaduni, they, like, had a commercial on MTV where they just, like, said the album title so people knew how to pronounce it. Yeah. Well, people were ready. for Secret Samadhi, because that was the follow-up to throwing copper.

People were like, we need more live in the mid-90s. Anyway, you're probably wondering, like, why is Rolling Stone doing a story on live in 2023? Well, it turns out that this band has had an insane amount of drama. One could say that they're selling the drama in the past few years. So I'm going to run down this. I feel like I want to read this article on this episode because it's so good. You have to look this up. Maybe pause this episode and go read this story quick.

Basically, what happened is that a con man. An alleged con man. Yeah, right. Alleged con man. An alleged like stalker. Yeah, there's like some dark shit going on with this guy. he's like a James Spader character from the 80s this guy, just a monster

But anyway, this alleged con man He befriends the guitarist of live Chad Taylor And he gets him to invest in all these companies There's like a fiber optics company that he invested in And anyway, the guy's a con man And like they lose a bunch of money With this guy

And so there's that going on Like the band is just being swindled. So you have that drama. And then the drummer in the band is apparently now like a huge Trump supporter and QAnon guy who also attends the ABN Awards. Yeah, that's like the first thing they mention about this guy, which I think every alt rock band from the 90s has at least one anti-vaxxer or flat earther in the band. It's probably the drummer. Yeah, it's probably the drummer. So there's that.

Apparently Ed Kowalchik, who, if you know anyone in live, it's Ed Kowalchik. And by the way, I was a fan of live in the 90s. I owned Throwing Copper. I saw Thuring Copper. I saw that tour. I had a throwing copper tour t-shirt. The ugliest T-shirt like I've ever seen. The ugliest tour t-shirt of all time.

I didn't know that there were two guys named Chad in the band. Oh. I didn't realize. that either shit. Although like I think okay so I'm sorry this is like a very scattered description of the story there's just so much information because like Ed Colalchick apparently he was out of live for a while and their new lead singer was the son of the owner of like what basketball team hornet so yeah the this guy if you thought like James Dolan was like you know like doing like useless ass stuff with his money.

You have this guy, and I've never heard this version of live, but George Shin, the guy who owns the Charlotte Hornets, his son replaced Ed Kowalchick. Did he get, like, that bald head with the rat tail thing going on? Like, I don't know. Like, if I'm seeing live, I want to see Ed, I want to see Ed, like prime Ed. Like, no shirt, even though he, like, looks like he's never been in a gym. He's definitely not in that subcategory of swore. rockers. He had not followed the

Trent Rezner path. Yeah, that part it was just, I think you're right and like, we kind of have to be scattered about this because like there are just so many interesting factoids that pop up and it's just like, oh, by the way, the owner of the Charlotte Hornets kids, he replaced

Levin. Also, you know, did you know that they started another band with like two dudes from Candlebox? Yes, exactly. Was it like the chosen few, I think was the name of that band? It was like a, it was a 90s supergroup. It was like either the precious few or the chosen few.

I feel like the precious few sounds more, I feel like that sounds more like a live candlebox meeting of the minds. So are you sure you didn't review the precious view for Pitchfork like in 2011? Is it possible that if you look in the archives, there's an Ian Cohen review of the live candlebox supergroup? There's a lot of shit. I forget reviewing from that time. But if I had done that, I would have definitely known it.

So, anyway. Anyway, yeah, so the son of the owner of the Charlotte Horace, he was the singer in Live, but then he's out of the band. And now Ed Kowalchik at some point was back in the band, and then he fired the other three guys in the band. So now Live is Ed Kowalchik and three hired guns trying to put their career back together, playing Likini's Juice in casinos all across the country. Not in like Atlantic City or Vegas, more like, you know. like the Indian casinos, like an upstate Wisconsin or, you know, Montana, like those kind of markets. They kindly call them tertiary markets because like I, like, I say secondary markets sometimes when writing about music to like give people a sense of like what it's like

to actually tour through, say, Scranton. Like this is like tertiary. This is like actual shit town USA. Yeah. So anyway, this story, it's amazing. And it's basically about how, this band completely fell apart in their era of, you know, when they should just be going out and, you know, playing greatest hits tours. Like I saw live, I've seen live in like in the last three or four years. They toured with Counting Crows, I think, right before the pandemic. So I saw the classic lineup, which I guess we'll call it now, the classic lineup of live.

you know and they and I don't know and maybe this is just me and I think and you too I think we're on the same level here that you know we talk about new bands

up and coming bands and it's important to talk about that you interview them you want to expose them to a larger audience and it's great but I really think that the most fascinating

bands are bands like this that are about 20 years past their commercial peak but they're still together and then there's all this weirdness that comes in. Like, there's no new band that has as gripping a backstory right now as live. Like, I want another story on this band in a year.

Like, I'm curious, because there's still hope that maybe they can get back together. Like, Chad Taylor, the guitarist, who is either a monster or, a victim. In the story, it's not clear. It's like, depending on who you talk to, this guy is either like a narcissist or he's like a babe in the woods. Like, you don't know which one it is.

But I can't get enough of this. I did not leave this article with a lot of hope. I'll tell you that. Like, I'm like legit worried on Chad's behalf. Like, he's like six figures in the whole in legal fees. Like, you know,

substance problems. And, you know, It's very clear that regardless of like who's right or wrong, you can get the sense that the other two guys like Patrick and Chad, the other guys in live, are like kind of, you know, kind of kissing Ed's ass.

Like, yeah, Chad didn't write any of these songs. And like, look, if you're, you know, if you want to,

if you wanted to like increase the likelihood that you're going to play, like selling the drama and freaks and dolphins cry and all the other beloved songs from Live in the future, you're going to side with Ed Kowalachik, who, by the way, like if you know anything about live, like you were saying, it's like, you know,

Ed Kowalchik being shirtless, having a bald head and rat tail and making songs called Dolphins Cry, you wouldn't expect a live article in 2023 to like make him seem like the most reasonable person in the group. Like, he comes off really well. Well, not really well, but, you know, but relatively well.

Let's say that. I mean, you know, the thing with a band like this is that in a year or two or five years, Live Nation is going to show up and they're going to say, look, it's the 35th anniversary of throwing copper. We're going to package you with Candlebox and Toad the Wet Sprocket, Local H, maybe a couple other bands. We're going to put you on the road. Everclear's got to be on that, Bill.

Everclear. By the way, and again, like, look, I just want to read this entire article because it's so good, but there's a graph in that article where it describes Everclear as like a B-Lis band. Yeah, did not appreciate that. Yeah, and the implication is that live was slumming by touring with Everclear. And it just made me think, like, is Everclear slumming going with live or is live slumming going with Everclear? like what is the sort of hierarchy there? Because I kind of feel like if you did a poll now, I think Everclear would have a higher Q rating.

Oh, absolutely. Than live. Absolutely. I've heard band. I've seen like a number of bands, not like to the degree of third eye blind, but like rep Everclear is like, yeah, Santa Monica, good song.

Like live, there's such a creation of the 90s. it's impossible to like retcon this band, even in the way that like Hootie or Counting Crook, like I mean, Count of Crote is a great band, don't get me wrong, but like, you know, there are ways to consider bands like them outside of the 90s, whereas live, they are such a creation of that void between like Kirk Cobain

dying and like, you know, all the other trends of the late 90s, like new metal boy bands like, you know, electronic or whatever. Like this man can only be on the cover of Rolling Stone winning a Reader's poll in 1996. There is no other way. Yeah, they are the manifestation of mid-90s culture. You have all the strands coming together, like you just said. And, you know, I feel like it's possible to, like, rehab Stone Temple pilots. And, you know, they've been rehab to some degree.

Live is probably a bridge too far. I don't even think, you know. And I'll say this as someone who. still has some appreciation for throwing copper. Maybe just because it's nostalgia for me. But I was just thinking about like pitching like a Sunday pitchfork review on throwing copper. Yeah. I've done that with like 16 stone.

I've done that with a lot of like end of alt rock mid 90s albums and have gotten no green light just yet. but I feel like even 16 stone is easier to rehab than than throwing copper at this point because I think people will look at Bush and they'll be like well they were mistreated a little bit in their time they wrote catchy songs they have some self-awareness too I think that like if you have any modicah self-awareness you can definitely be rehabbed as a 90s alt rock person but like live you just know that like Ed Kowalach this is a band with like out of sense of humor at all. Yeah, yeah, Bush never,

there's no Likini's juice in Bush's catalog. There's no equivalent to that. There's no Dolphins Cry in their catalog. While, we spent 15 minutes on live. But that said, we're giving the people what they want.

This is like, when we move on, this is like when clap your hands they opened up for the national. Like all of our longtime readers are just going to like check out because they got what they came for. Yeah, that's true. Yep.

This is an important indie cast investigation. One thing I wanted to talk to you about was Scrillix. We're bringing out the big guns here in our banter. Because Scrillix, he's having a moment right now. He just put out two new albums, Quest for Fire and Don't Get Too Close. One is, I guess, more at his sort of dubstep wheelhouse. and the other one, I guess, is like a hip-hop record. Yeah, kind of an newish emo rap type stuff.

Don't tell me which one is which. I have no idea. I just know one is kind of a rap record or one is more of a bros dip record. It just made me think about how, you know, we're 10 years removed now from the early 2010s, and it seems like we're already getting some 2010s nostalgia. Like there was a 10th anniversary edition

of random access memories. the Deaf Punk record that was announced this week. You have two new Scrillix records. You shared with me the spin article from 2012 that I remember from the time but I have not thought about since where they ranked the top 100 guitarists of all time

and Scrilix was number 100 even though he does not play guitar. Well, did he? Look, I don't know a ton about his old emo band like his old Florida metalcore emo band. remember if he played guitar in that band though well i if he did play guitar in the band it's beside the point i think the idea was that it was forwarding an idea that was very common in the early 2010s among music critics that dubstep electronic music was taking over music and that this was

like the new rock music and it just made me think about how that didn't happen for one thing that Debstep was essentially absorbed into pop music. So you started hearing big drops in like Justin Bieber songs, within a few years of the Skrillix, you know, epic, you know, epoch in the early 2010s. But I just wonder, like, was that the last time that people talked about, like, an insurgent music movement taking over the culture in a dramatic. in a dramatic way, you know, the way that we think about grunge doing that or new metal doing that.

Because I just feel like, I mean, music obviously has changed, but it's not dramatic. You know, there's not, it doesn't feel like there are these easily pinpoint, pinpointable sea changes in the way that there was in the 20th century, you know, and I feel like music critics always want to, like, invent that, you know, and they, they want to will that into happening. And obviously, electronic music was a big part of music in the 2010s and still is.

I mean, there's no question about that. But it's not like, oh, the new guitarists are turntablist now or something. You know what I mean? Like, am I wrong? Because I just feel like we don't talk about music that way anymore

because people just know that it's kind of just like one big blob. And there's changes, but it's not this sort of easily followable followable? That's not a word. Easy to follow. Yeah. Easily definable narrative

in the way they used to be. Yeah, I also don't think, like, you know, that article from 2012, I brought it up because I was reviewing a screaming females album. And yeah, I mean, like that is a real time capsule of like early 2010's thinking, which is

kind of an update on like late 90s thinking. I don't think there's a framework anymore of like you know, this version of music. is overtaking rock music as like the sound of youth culture because like I don't think most people would like even posit the possibility that like rock music is something that can be like, you know, like have a have a coup staged on it. But right. Yeah, I think with like this the Scrilex reappraisal or whatever or you know, just random access memories coming back, I mean like look, it's been 10 years. We're in a reflective mood about it. But what I was

wonder, like, EDM or Brostep or whatever you want to call it, I mean, that was such a massive part of like the 2010's ecosystem. I mean, and also you would get, like, has the EDM, like, festival bubble burst

articles happening, like, several years prior to the pandemic. But I think with, like, Skrill-ex specifically, like, the fact that he was in a rock band makes him a lot easier to kind of retrofit into, you know, critics list or whatever. You can see the trial balloons being floated, you know, during the late

2010s of like, how are we going to account for EDM when we make the future canon? Similar to like how you see some 70s or 80s lists in the modern day, like put disco or like early hip hop albums in there, even though like those genres really weren't geared towards like albums at that time, there's going to be like when you get like a future 2010's list, they're going to put some EDM albums in there. You're going to get some Avichy. You're going to get some Skrillex. And, um, I mean,

if you really want to be honest about like what was pop at the time and, you know, like I listened to those two Squill X albums and I'm thinking to myself like, yeah, um, I get, they're good for what, like, I, I think his heart's in the right place and also like, I have no interest in like even trying to pretend, uh, you

know, like I can get down with this stuff. Like, I just, when I was at Coachella during those years, I avoided the Sahara tent. Emo, like, the kind of emo that he makes is totally outside my wheelhouse. The kind of rap he likes to, except for the song he does with, like, Floodon. Yeah, it's just totally outside there. And you know what? This strikes me as something that as you can tell from the fact we're doing an Indycast Hall of Fame episode, there's not a ton going on right now. So this is just going to be something we talk about for two weeks.

And then, I don't know, maybe we talk about Scrill X for Memory Hold albums of 2023. But that being said, he did perform like a sold out Madison Square garden gig, like with like five minutes notice. Yeah, I mean, you know, he is classic rock for people who are, you know, 23 years old. You know, like this is the set. I mean, it definitely like, and I always used this framework to define whatever. is like the definitive music of a particular era but like if you were making a documentary about

2011 or 2012 that era you'd probably pick a scrylix on it is so of that time and it's interesting just getting this perspective on it

10 years on I mean what's striking about pop music now is how static it is that the biggest people in pop were kind of the biggest people 10 years ago. You know, like Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Adele, you know. There are younger stars that have come up, but I feel like there hasn't been as much movement

at the top as you would expect. You know, Drake is still really big. You know, the weekend, I guess is... Bigger than ever. A lot. He's a lot bigger now. I mean, he started at that time. but again, this idea of like every 10 years we're going to have this movement that completely changes music.

Like that has not happened. Like you could talk about small changes that have occurred, but like the sweeping changes that we would use to define different eras in the past. I feel like that has not happened in music, and it's just interesting. And I don't know if that's because things are just decent. centralized now. Like, you can listen to what you want to listen to.

So it's harder to say, like, well, I can't, you know, I, I, heard poison on the radio this week, and now it's Nirvana. You know, it's like, if you like poison, you can just listen to poison now, like, all the time. You don't have to rely on, like, major media centers playing

music for you, and that's going to change what your listening habits are. So, I don't know. This is very think PC right now. the people what we want. Yeah. So let's get to our mailbag segment. This letter this week is amazing.

It's very short. It's short and to the point, which is what we like. Do you want to read this letter? I do. So this comes from Kevin and Carol Stream, Illinois. And Kevin just puts it thusly, incubus, yay or nay. That's it. Okay.

Well, thank you, Kevin. I think Kevin's written in before. Carol Stream, Illinois. I've heard that city. We can't have multiple listeners in Carroll Stream, Illinois. Maybe that's like our version of the tertiary markets that Live is playing in right now. Like we can't hit up like Chicago or even like Buffalo Grove, but like Carroll Stream, that's us. So, yay or nay, I'm really curious to hear what you have to say about this.

Yeah. Are you, because I feel like you might be yay, right? Are you yay on Incubis? More like Sucubis, am I right? That one never gets fucking old. Yeah, like with Incumis, like there's sort of band that I won't like,

I'll spare the details, but like there are certain songs that, you know, I recall like very vivid memories of like I am way too fucking high right now. And like among them are like Dave Matthews band Crush Gomez's in our gun and Incubis wish you were here. I heard that song for the first time in my last year of college

and I thought like this is such a fucking profoundly beautiful expression like this is incredible and like yeah it's like maybe I need to like just chill for the night with that like Incubis is like in this subset of bands where it's like fun to say

I like them on like Twitter you know like they're closely enough associated with like bands I actually like and you know they have enough of a credibility deficit but like enough good things about them where you can make an argument like no actually like you know incubus was like they were like really doing some innovative things with like turntabalism and like whatnot but like when i go back and like actually listen to it like this is not a good band and i think the problem is like unlike say you know like lincoln park or other acts from that era like Incubis was like they thought they were way smarter than they actually are. I mean, first off, like,

if Brandon Boyd's like trying to present himself as like, you know, kind of this philosopher of, uh, you know, new metal or rap rock, like the dude should probably wear a shirt every now and again. Now, mind you, if like I looked like Brandon Boyd, I'd probably not wear a shirt either. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean,

drive is okay. It's like a classic CBS slash Ralph rock song. Nice to know you Slaps. I like that song but otherwise Stellar has its moments. Are You In is a song I listen to and like I need a good laugh.

But yeah when I go back and actually listen to Morning View or listen to science yeah it's just kind of like either sublime like if they thought they were 311 or like Lincoln Park

on antidepressants you know, the fact they named their big follow-up to Morning View, one crow left of the murder, that's like classic overthinker rock. Yeah, it's just like, just embrace being a hembo, dude.

Like this, this reminds me of like all those albums that came out like in, you know, the mid-90s when like better than Ezra was like making like kind of their dark follow-up to, you know, deluxe or you know, Afghan wig's

black love or exit. Like there's that whole swath of mid-90s, like, or wax ecstatic for that matter. Yeah, it's just like that, like, darker and smarter than you really are when you're just kind of like, I don't know, like, it's just be embrace being hymbo's. Like you're, you were born on third base. Just slide home on the hymnbo shit. So, man, I could just listen to you talk about incubus all day long. The one crow left of the murder. That drop, that was just beautiful. Your knowledge of incubus is much deeper than mine. I'll say that, you know, echoing one of your points,

I'm fascinated by this band's status as, like, Thinking Man's New Metal. You know, that this was the band. Like, I remember back in the day, like Jim Day Rigaudis, the great Chicago music critic. Like, this is a band that he would talk about liking. Oh. And I think he put, like, Morning View.

on a best of list and like Brandon Boyd came on sound opinions and it was like okay this is the band that if you don't like new metal you can like this band uh because it's it's elevated and which i you know to me all that means is that like actual new metal fans probably hate this because because they're not that metal they're just basically like hippies essentially yeah uh and the hippiness of it, I think, almost disqualifies them as a new metal band. But you're right. Like, it's not actually smarter. It's just coming at it from a sort of self-conscious, like, arty perspective.

But I have to say that I do like their, like, woozy songs. I, you know, like, I like the song Drive. I like that song, Warning. You know? Oh, yeah, yeah. They're ballady type type material. Which is, you know, like you were talking about, like, Lincoln Park on antidepressants. You know, to me, they're sort of like the agro cold play.

You know, like... Well, now it sounds like something I might like a lot more. Well, again, like, when they're in that sort of agro cold play mode, that's usually when I like them the most. Right. but yeah, Brandon Boyd, the poor man's Anthony Kedis, perpetually shirtless, but good for him. He's the half-naked philosopher of 2000s and late 90s new metal. I'm assuming that Kevin is a fan of Incubis.

I don't think he would ask us what we feel about them if he didn't like them. And it just makes me think that there probably are a lot of fans of this band. out in the world. Oh, yeah. And, you know, it just reminds me. I had a conversation recently with my friend Will Leach. I was on his podcast, and we were talking about how there are two different 90s. There's the early 90s and the late 90s.

And for a while, when we would talk about the 90s, the early 90s was the 90s that we talked about. And I think over time that has shifted. And eventually it's just going to be the late 90s. Like that's going to be the 90s. And people are going to forget the early 90s, just because there's more millennials than there are Gen X people. So I do wonder if a band like Incubis will be elevated because of that, you know, in the same way that a lot of late 90s bands are. Because there's just a lot of people that were young at that time and they had science. and they bought Morning View,

and to them, this is an important band. And the opinions of people like us are not going to matter as much. I mean, this is just something that I've seen take hold over time. So I don't know, I'm curious to see how that happens. Maybe Brandon Boyd will be on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominating committee at some point.

He'll take the Tom Morello spot and we'll start seeing more late 90s bands being put into the canon. All right, so we didn't meet our meat guarantee this week because we're a little bit over 30 minutes because we were too busy talking about in order, live, scrylix, an incubus, which is going to delight a segment of our audience, but I feel like we may have lost like another segment of our audience, perhaps permanently. I disagree. I feel like at this point, if you're not down for, like, you know, rehashing the best days of, like, the height of, like, music criticism in, like, 2012 where it was all, like, lists and festival coverage and, like, 90s alt rock.

This gets, this gets Indycast to where it is today. This is, like, part of, this is, like, if you see, like, you know, your favorite band, like, 30 years in, you got to let them do, like, a song or two off the new album before, you know, they play the hits. Yeah, I mean, I'm not apologizing because I'm delighted. I'm delighted by these topics. I'm just accepting that this might be the album that turns off some listeners because it's a little self-indulgent. And that's fine, you know, you got to make those records every now and then.

Let the bassist sing a song finally. You know what I mean. Exactly. This is our speaker box love below episode. We're just like, we're letting it all hang out. Well, here we are at the meet of our episode. It's the Indycast Hall of Fame. We actually haven't done one of these in a while.

No. But this is where Ian and I, we induct two albums each into our Indycast Hall of Fame. And these are albums that we love. But more importantly, they're albums that we feel like have been maybe forgotten or overlooked. They haven't been put into the canon for whatever reason. So we're putting them into our canon. And hopefully they will enter a larger canon. after that.

Is that about sum it up? I think it does. These are not like our favorite albums of all time, but for whatever reason, they just kind of like need a little bit of a boost. Like, you know, it's like if the, it's not like, oh, we're going to like induct the, you know, the Babe Ruth

or the Lou Gehrig's of it. It's more like the kind of remember some guys. Exactly. So do you want to go first? What's your first album? It's actually one called Meade. first. So, you know, nice little give and go right there. But yeah, so I recently engaged in, you know, again, like not to act like we spend all our time on Twitter, but yeah, a significant

amount of time. And I saw like a discussion of like, you know, do you take Rilo Kiley versus Jenny Lewis's solo discography debate? And, you know, like on the one hand, I think like Rilo Kiley more or less invented every single thing that happened in like guitar focused indie rock over the past decade, you know, you got like, emo relation, like country music, Fleetwood Mac, full-blown pop-timism. And, you know, so, but when you consider, like, how important and how great a lot of Ryle O'Chaly's music is, the argument for Jenny's solo work is that you don't get any Blake Senate songs. And, you know, that's the sort of thing that, like, sets me off. Because I think that his songs on the execution of all things are, like, actually good.

And he has like one song, Max, on the other two albums. But, you know, he, like, provided this air of, like, kind of shittiness. Like, I've talked in the past about, like, how I need shittiness on a record to keep things grounded. And so the album that I'm going to talk about is actually an album that's all Blake's Senate songs. It's a band. He started called The Elected. Their first album, Me First, which kind of shows, like, where this guy's mindset is at. in 2004.

But as much as like Riloh-Kiley was ahead of their time or prophetic in the kind of music they made, if you listen to this album now, you also hear a lot of music in 2023. This was kind of like a post-postal service Roots indie type record. You can hear the electronic stuff going in.

I think Jimmy Tamborello was on it. And this is like kind of where you hear the modern confluence of like Elliot Smith style vocals with like some more electronic elements but like kind of authentic outlaw country and you know this is the kind of album

that like would totally be on run for cover in 20203 it reminds me of like some field medic music the runner album which came out a week ago which I'm really into but more to the point like this is just like kind of a classic dirt bag album that doesn't realize it's dirt. bag, which is always intriguing to me.

I mean, I think there are two songs where you like kind of like gets mad at his mom, which, yeah, like two consecutive songs because like, you know, his mom's like struggling with substances or whatever. But yeah, I mean, again, this is like not a Hall of Fame record. I listen to it maybe once a year or once every other year when I'm just like in a 2004 sort of mood. But yeah, I think this kind of makes the argument that like Blake's, you know, Senate, more of an artistic

force than he's given credit for. I mean, like, to say that you're not as charismatic or, like, have as good of a voice or, like, a lyricism as Jenny Lewis, I mean, like, not many people do, but, you know, this one's for the dirtbags. This one's for the people who like the shit vibes.

Yeah, I like this album, too. I have not listened to this record in a really long time. And that is an interesting question about Jenny Lewis versus Riloh-Kiley. I mean, I probably like more Jenny Lewis albums than Rial-Chaly albums, but the dynamic of that band is really fascinating. And I do love the Fleetwood Magnus of having Jenny Lewis and Blake Senate in the same band.

So maybe I like thinking about Raleigh Kali more, but I'd rather listen to Jenny Lewis. That would probably be my breakdown there. My first album is also a side project of sorts, or not of sorts, it is a side project. And, you know, when I was trying to think of records that I wanted to put in the Indycast Hall of Fame, I went back to my old best-of list from like the 2000s. And I was looking for records that I ranked high that I haven't listened to much lately. And one album jumped out at me from 2009, my number three album of that year behind Enmo Collective and Grizzly Bear. And that album is Dragon Slayer by the band Sunset Rubdown. and I was really glad that I pulled this record off the shelf, like metaphorically.

I just listened to it on a streaming platform, but this is a really good record. And I'm wondering where Sunset Rubdown is right now in the conversation. They actually announced a reunion tour in December, and it's actually coming to my town this spring, so I might go check it out. But Sunset Rubdown, of course, is a band fronted by Spencer Krug of the band Wolf Parade, and he started this band concurrently with Wolf Parade. And I think like in 2009, this kind of album, contrary to what you were saying about Riloh Kiley,

you know, Riley, as you said correctly, they've had a big influence on where indie music is now in 2023. I feel like the opposite is true of a band like Sunset Rubdown. Like I don't hear a lot of bands that sound like this, and it was part of the appeal for me going back to this record because it really does evoke a time where it was fairly common to hear records that tried to fuse two different ideas, this sort of maximalist rock music that was very popular in the 2000s, typified by arcade fire funeral and albums of that ilk,

taking that big sound and fusing it with sort of this art-y theatricality, that we look back now on, I look back on it fondly, but I think that tends to be an aspect of indie music at this time that a lot of people don't like. And this album, I think, probably leans more in the sort of maximalist rock direction, which is why I really respond to this record. But it's such a good record.

It's very ambitious. There's some pragy elements to it. the songs go through different movements, but it's always melodic, it's always catchy, and it has that wolf parade thing where you feel like the songs are constantly on the verge of falling apart, and yet they don't. You know, there's a real energy to it that is a little off-kilter that I think really balances the artiness of it. Like, to me, this doesn't feel arch in a way that maybe other indie records of that era do. Although that may just be my taste.

I wonder if someone who didn't come up in that time, maybe it would feel like a little too arty for them. But I don't know. I'm curious how you feel about this album. I went and looked back. This album was very well reviewed at the time. It's actually the last sunset rubdown album. I don't know if they're going to do a new album

in conjunction with this reunion tour. Because it did seem like at the time that this could be, like the band that supplants wolf parade. You know, it felt like it was kind of building up to that. And then there hasn't been another album since. Like, were you a fan of this record at the time? This is like a rare beast in the fact that, like, I like, you know, I had my moments with the first two Sunset Rubbed album.

And like this got like best new music in 2009. I don't think I've ever actually heard this album, which is like really hard to believe. Because like I was all on top of like what was happening at that time. But, you know, Sunset Rubdown was a band that, like, I don't know, it always seems like they're either on streaming or coming to streaming, like, or you have to, like, search them under some weird term. I would say that, like, this, I think that people are, like, kind of more likely to, you know, tout the Wolf Parade splinter band than, like, Wolf Parade itself. Sunset Rubdown is a band that has, you know, I'd say if you listen to stuff nowadays,

like say Glass Beach or like Bruiser and Bicycle or like stuff that's like kind of more in the emo realm, you're going to hear stuff like this. Like Sunset Rubdown to me is like, sometimes I'll hear like these songs. I'm like, this is unbelievable. Like I cannot imagine how like Spencer Crew sits down to write these songs.

And other times like this is the most annoying shit I've ever heard in my life. I love the, I love, I just love the low floor high ceiling aspect of this. And you know, I need to go listen to this album because like for some reason, I just did not give it my time in 2009.

Maybe I was just like too busy, you know. I was like super deep maybe into like neon Indian at that time. I think you would like this album because I think you're right in that it feels more like an emo record in 2023 than at the time. Just because that is the scene where you're more likely to hear that sort of like almost hysterical type rock music like where it's on the verge of falling apart musically and emotionally but it somehow hangs

together and yeah it's a great record I really like it a lot I think you're in for a treat when you finally check this album out yeah I did not realize they were doing a reunion tour good for them yeah I mean it's probably one of those ones where it's like you know two dates in L.A. one in New York one in Chicago

no they're playing oh it's a real tour Yeah, they're coming to Minneapolis. So I think... All right. And I don't know, you know, we get a lot of Canadian bands here because we're close to Canada. So I don't know how deep into America they're going. Right.

But they're definitely playing here. So, yeah, I'm going to check it out. What's your next album? So kind of a variation on a theme that seems to be taking place here of like side projects. And for me, this is also like the last record part of the Saddle Creek. you know kind of the Saddle Creek early 2000s world. As to be expected, I'm doing a 20th anniversary piece on cursives the ugly organ, which, you know, that's the sort of album that people think along the lines of like Pinkerton

or say anything as a real boy as like, yeah, you can love this album, but like you got to be careful about what this says about you. But, you know, like while I can say the ugly organ is, you know, just like, and now I can play like once a year for its like unmatched cathartic. power. I think the best Tim Casher project might actually be the Good Life's album of the year. This came out in 2004 and like prior to that, the Good Life was kind of his gothic or synthier side project. This one, it's very much a Tim Casher project circa 2004 in that it's like a concept album about a relationship. It's album of the year, 12 songs apparently like each song takes place in a

month, even though like October leaves is like the seventh song and not the 10th. But it's in more than a style of like I would describe it as like Andy Schoff like or maybe like the more country bright eyes songs. You know, it's like a little bit jazzy in places, a little bit country. Maybe Mike Moj's best production job ever for Saddle Creek. It sounds fucking amazing. But, you know, the thing I loved about this album in 2004 is that much like with cursive. It has, it's a, you know, it's a concept out about relationships and what happens bears no fucking resemblance to any real relationship that anyone ever experiences.

But, you know, cursive and The Good Life has a way of making Tim Cashers, like, fucked up view of relationships seem like aspirational in a way. It's like, oh, man, this seems awesome. I want this to happen to me. And, you know, just a bit of a personal story. Like, in 2005, like I was in my first, like, real relationship. relationship and like we were living in like you know 30 minutes apart because I had a summer job and you know I didn't know how to like handle arguments in relationships or whatever and I'm like driving home from work and listening to this album thinking you know what I need to

end this relationship like this seems like a good idea I did that two hours later I'm like on the phone begging her to like get back together and like you know we did for like the next five years but like with this album like it just makes me think of like how I can be empathetic like the 25-year-olds on Twitter that are annoying me with their hot takes. When you're that age, like music makes you do like insane things. And, you know, even if this album like doesn't have that same jolt it did back in the day, it allows me to like occupy that headspace where it's like,

I'm going to take life advice from Tim Casher right now. You know, I met Tim Casher like three or four years ago because I was on a jury for like this film festival in Minneapolis and Tim Casher was also on that jury. I don't know how either one of us ended up there. Yeah, I'd love to know that. But you seem like a nice guy. Oh, yeah.

That's my Tim Casher story. So my second and final album that I'm inducting into the Indycast Hall of Fame was inspired by my recent revisiting of Brian Jones Town Massacre. and I talked about this on the show. The new album that came out recently in the great, greatest hits album, Tepid Peppermint Wonderland.

And it just made me remember that, like, there was a time in my life where that sort of garagogy psychedelic rock was, like, really speaking to me. Late aughts, early 2010s, when I was living in Milwaukee, and I was, like, smoking pot every day. You know, that was my soundtrack.

and one band that I really loved at that time, and this album continues to hold up for me, the album is Play It Strange, and the band is The Fresh and Onlys. And I don't know if you remember this band. Of course I remember this band. Well, of course you would, but I'm just saying, you know, because you're a master of remembering some guys. But this is a band that was part of a music scene in San Francisco

that got a lot of coverage about a day. decade ago that included a couple of acts that are still around today. VOCs and Ty Seagal would be like the two big ones from there. And I guess like the fresh and onlys would be like the kinks in that hierarchy. You know, like they're not as famous as like the big dogs, but in some ways, for me anyway, they made some of my favorite records of that time and played it strange for me. This record came out in 2010. To me, it's like their best album. And, you know, I think at the knock on garage rock is that it's all aesthetics and not a lot of actual songs. You know, like you, if you get a certain kind of gear and you have a certain kind of haircut and you wear

like the right jacket, then you can be a garage rock band. But I think the Fresh and Onlys contradict that conventional wisdom because they really do bring, I think, really great pop songs to the fold. The first two songs on this album, some are Love and Waterfall are just endlessly replayable to me. Really great songs. But I think this whole album really holds up. I mean, I'm in the middle of like a terrible snowstorm right now. It's like snowing.

Like we got like a foot of snow here. It's awful. And listening to this album this week really made me wish that I could have like opened the windows in my office and enjoyed the springtime. Because it just has that air to it. It's very jangly, very melodic music. And just like one kind of perfect three-minute pop song after another on this record. And it was really fun revisiting it. Because again, I had not listened to this album in a long time.

I think it holds up. It's also a time capsule for me of a certain time of my life, like right before I had kids, again, like where I was just living in Milwaukee, go into dirtbag taverns with my wife and smoking weed when I got home. It was the good life back then. But yeah, this is a great record. And I know you're not into garage rock at all.

That being said. You do like this album? Tropical Island Suite is like, you know, you mentioned the pop songs. I'm going to talk about the one that's like seven and a half minutes long. This one, it does remind me of a very specific time

in my life, you know, in 2010. And also just like thinking back when like bands like this and, you know, the other ones you mentioned in that San Francisco Garage Rock world could be like the sort of thing that galvanizes the indie press. I mean, you can't, you probably aren't going to see that today. But I mean, also you got to give a shot. Yeah, you will not see that today. I might even say probably.

I mean, you know, we're talking about, and this is sort of an unexpected theme maybe of this episode, we talked about like the Skrillic world. of 2012. And this is like another thing that was going on at that time. And that's another, you know, talking about like a localized scene. Like that's something,

regardless of whether it's garage rock or whatever, you don't see that either. You know, like all these bands in one town and that being viewed as like a movement or something, that also seems like a thing in the past. Yeah. Also, the guy's name's Tim Cohen. I gotta give a shout to my people.

That's true. Is there any relation? Is he like a distant cousin? Probably, but like not, no relation I can be aware of. Yeah, there's a lot of Cohen's out there. Yeah, seriously. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where we talk about something that we're into this week.

Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so we got a recent email about the Meet Me in the Bathroom documentary that was disappointed that not enough time was spent looking at like liars or, you know, like bands like Black Dice who were around doing the kind of grimy, like doing bad coke in an industrial park, sort of noise and dance punk stuff happening, which, you know, understandable. But if you actually, like, want that kind of music, like happening in 2023, boy, do I have a record for you.

It's an album that's out, I believe, today, from an act called Model Actress, like Model backslash actress, but spelled IZ at the end, their debut album, Dog's Body. and this is really bringing back that early aughts bad vibe sort of music. I mean, there's a lot of like, you know, dance punk, percussive early liars. Some of the songs, the vocals remind me a lot of juju. You know, there's maybe recent daughters. You know, I know that band's been canceled, but there's like a massive void for stuff that sounds like that. And it's all very like abrasive, but like weirdly like danceable and accessible produced by the same guy who did the hotel year as good.

goodness, but like, I mean, this guy does a lot of stuff like Lingua Nata and battles and such. But yeah, I mean, I've heard like a little bit of like Liars revivalism happening recently. Like maybe it's just two records and, you know, it won't go any further than that. But yeah, I would say that this one, like, if you really, really, really are up for, and again, this is another theme of this episode, at least for me, shittiness, bad vibes. this is going to do it for you. So recommend this one quite highly. So I'm going to recommend an album that is also out today. It's called Strange Dance, and it is the third solo record from Philip Selway, the drummer from Radiohead. I interviewed Philip. My story ran this week on Up Rocks. And I just want to say, this is a good record.

And I generally like his solo records. And if you're wondering what his records sound like, I would say, it kind of sound like radiohead, but like, with Philip Selway singing. That's essentially it. I think this new album is his best solo record yet. It reminded me a little bit of like a moonshape pool and that it's very dreamy. There's a lot of orchestral aspects to it. Not as good as that record because Philip Selway isn't as good of a songwriter as Tom York. But look, we're not getting a Radiohead record.

I don't think anytime soon. a theory that they're basically broken up. But maybe they'll get it back together for a tour or something. I mean, when I interviewed Selway, he was a very nice guy, and he was very patient with me, and I'm sure he's used to this, because I asked about three or four questions on his record, and the rest of my questions were just about Radiohead. And I was really trying to get him to talk about whether they're still a band or not. And, you know, he said something that I thought was interesting, where,

He basically said, everything that we do on our own falls under the umbrella of Radiohead. So the smile, the Ed O'Brien solo stuff, the Phil Selway stuff. They're like the Wu-Tang Clan at this point, doing their own records,

but it's all kind of the Wu-Tang Clan, but not really. So I don't know. That answer just made me feel like I don't know if they're going to work together again as a five-piece band, but they're going to remain first. friends. And maybe that's the way you stay friends by not going to the studio. I hope to be wrong.

Maybe I'm just saying this because I'm hoping to reverse jinx myself, which I guess now I've ruined the reverse jinx by saying that out loud. But anyway, for Radiohead fans, this is a record that I think if you play it at the same time as the Smile record, it'll sound like a Radiohead record. It's like Zyrieka in here, you know. You've got to like get the record. to get forced disc players. And I just love that, like, you mentioned, the possibility of, like, it being, like, like, like, Rayo had being Wu-Tang. And then I got to, like, ask myself, like, what does that make the unbelievable truth?

Like, what's the Wu-Tang equivalent of that? Oh, man. That, I, I, I, I, I, I, I do, like, maybe for a future indie cast, hall, or maybe just, like, a theme episode where we listen to, like, the brother, like, you know, Tom York's brother's band or Jonathan Davin of Corn his cousin

Edema that band we're just going to do yeah that's what we're going to do in a future episode if you thought our live episode was like full of substance wait till you hear

our unbelievable truth episode yeah we're going to drive away our last remaining listeners I cannot wait for that to happen well thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast we'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends

next week And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.